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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Results : January 21st 2016

SystemSystem Posts: 12,293
edited 2016 22 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Results : January 21st 2016

Bushey North (Con defence) on Hertfordshire
Result: Conservative 881 (53% +9%), Liberal Democrat 333 (20% +6%), Labour 286 (17% -2%), UKIP 176 (11% -12%)
Conservative HOLD with a majority of 548 (33%) on a swing of 1.5% from Liberal Democrat to Conservative

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Yay 1st
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Well, spot the out one out.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    On that crash of Labours ....

    Labour are reissuing their old lie that the Conservative party in Opposition backed Labour borrowing plans and advocated light touch regulation of the banks or even deregulation of the banks. They have always wished to duck responsibility for the great crash that occurred on their watch in 2007-8

    http://www.thecommentator.com/article/5917/labour_s_denial_about_the_2008_crash
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    FPT
    'chestnut said:
    Public sector net debt excluding public sector banks at the end of December 2015 was £1,542.6 billion, equivalent to 81.0% of Gross Domestic Product; an increase of £53.2 billion compared with December 2014.
    Just £53.2bn higher than a year previously ???'

    My suggested clarification (quoted from ONS) -

    ''Public sector net borrowing excluding public sector banks decreased by £11.0 billion to £74.2 billion in the current financial year-to-date (April 2015 to December 2015) compared with the same period in 2014.''
    ''Central government net cash requirement decreased by £17.2 billion to £63.1 billion in the
    current financial year-to-date (April 2015 to December 2015) compared with the same period in 2014.''
    ''Due to the volatility of the monthly data, the cumulative financial year-to-date borrowing figures provide a better indication of the progress of the public finances than the individual months.''

    There should be some surplus months between now and end of March.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Close to white out conditions in northern Maryland now. 3-4" of wonderful powder snow so far. Feeling ready - wood stacked and accessible. Generator full and test started. Tractor in front of house with plough and full of diesel. Snowblower oiled up and with a full gas tank, test started. Bath full of water. Plenty of wine. Looking forward to a quiet (like really, snow-dampened quiet) weekend.
  • MTimT said:

    Close to white out conditions in northern Maryland now. 3-4" of wonderful powder snow so far. Feeling ready - wood stacked and accessible. Generator full and test started. Tractor in front of house with plough and full of diesel. Snowblower oiled up and with a full gas tank, test started. Bath full of water. Plenty of wine. Looking forward to a quiet (like really, snow-dampened quiet) weekend.

    Good luck, mate!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    In response to @Wanderer (fpt):-

    I think their apology is a non-apology because they fail to accept that their failure effectively to understand one of our major sectors, what it did, how it did and what its real purpose is - it is there as a service for others not as an end in itself - meant that:-

    (a) they failed to regulate effectively;
    (b) they allowed it to grow disproportionately with consequent harm to the rest of the economy and the proper allocation of resources within the wider economy;
    (c) they became so dependant on its revenues that they did little or nothing for any other part of the economy. Look at what happened to the manufacturing sector during Labour's time in office; and
    (d) they believed their own bullshit and spent the money rather than using that windfall productively.

    This all meant that the economy as a whole was being very badly run. It was skewed to and dependant on one volatile and poorly understood sector. Economic mismanagement is what they should be apologising for and that mismanagement is much wider and more profound than financial regulation and an excessive deficit.

    I'm no defender of crooked and incompetent bankers but they have become a convenient whipping boy for governments and, frankly, for individuals who were very content to borrow and spend quite as incontinently as Brown and who then turn round and blame banks for somehow forcing them to do so.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Moses_ said:

    On that crash of Labours ....

    Labour are reissuing their old lie that the Conservative party in Opposition backed Labour borrowing plans and advocated light touch regulation of the banks or even deregulation of the banks. They have always wished to duck responsibility for the great crash that occurred on their watch in 2007-8

    http://www.thecommentator.com/article/5917/labour_s_denial_about_the_2008_crash

    A level of regulation is one thing (ligher or heavier), but obfuscating responsibility and methodology is quite another.
    And right at the outset a Conservative shadow minister warned that Browns system (which stripped the BoE of responsibility) would probably fail its first test.
    And of course it did.

    Its really bad news that Labour are still living in a make believe world.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,147
    GOP head to head:

    Trump 59% Cruz 29%
    Trump 64% Rubio 27%
    Trump 68% Bush 22%
    Trump 72% Kasich 15%
    Trump 69% Christie 19%
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnzogby/2016/01/21/new-zogby-poll-trump-leads-cruz-by-32-points-nationwide/#55ae75397b32
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited 2016 22
    MTimT said:

    Close to white out conditions in northern Maryland now. 3-4" of wonderful powder snow so far. Feeling ready - wood stacked and accessible. Generator full and test started. Tractor in front of house with plough and full of diesel. Snowblower oiled up and with a full gas tank, test started. Bath full of water. Plenty of wine. Looking forward to a quiet (like really, snow-dampened quiet) weekend.

    Your weather sounds far more picturesque than ours.

    Northern Maryland is making me think of the lead up to or aftermath of Gettysburg. Were those manoeuvres around your patch?
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Tripartite System -

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/bank-of-england/11329046/Revealed-Bank-of-England-files-finally-shed-light-on-financial-crisis-meetings.html
    ''The documents show how the response to the collapse of Northern Rock in September 2007 and the subsequent credit crisis was marred by political motivations, failures to take responsibility, and a lack of effective oversight.''
    ''The documents – from meetings of the Bank of England court – reveal how the “tripartite” system of financial regulation devised by Labour’s chancellor Gordon Brown was exposed as wholly inadequate.''

    http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2009/06/02/the-tripartite-system-was-responsible-for-the
    ''The tripartite system put in place by New Labour to regulate the economy was responsible for the financial crisis, according to a devastating new report by the House of Lords economic affairs committee.''
    ''We need to acknowledge that the regulations and their application contributed to the crisis, and made it worse when it came, because among other things, they had a pro-cyclical bias, did not pay enough attention to liquidity, and were wide open to regulatory arbitrage''
    ''It is also clear that in the UK the tripartite authorities of the Bank of England, FSA, and the Treasury failed to maintain financial stability, in part because it was not clear who was in charge in a crisis and because not enough attention was paid to macro-prudential supervision - oversight of the aggregate effect of the actions of individual banks - in the period when 'boom and bust' was mistakenly assigned to history.''
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Lilley made a speech the detail here from Hansard. Starts at No 720 to make it easier to find. Suffice to say it started thus...

    Mr. Lilley
    "Does the right hon. Gentleman agree with these comments about that approach: A blanket approach, the creation of a 'super-regulator', won't do. I know that it makes for convenient shorthand but the idea that if all the regulators are rounded up and put into one building then we will have a system that will solve all our problems simply won't wash"?

    HOC - November 1997

    http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1997/nov/11/bank-of-england-bill

    Labour were warned the year they were elected. Brown knew best, he didn't . Browns responsibility and Labours.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @robertshrimsley: Google strikes £130m back tax deal - Great FT scoop https://t.co/2IAgZNp3O9 via @FT
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    edited 2016 22
    Moses_ said:

    On that crash of Labours ....

    Labour are reissuing their old lie that the Conservative party in Opposition backed Labour borrowing plans and advocated light touch regulation of the banks or even deregulation of the banks. They have always wished to duck responsibility for the great crash that occurred on their watch in 2007-8

    http://www.thecommentator.com/article/5917/labour_s_denial_about_the_2008_crash

    Labour want to claim credit for their spending or "investment" as they prefer to call it and also apologise for not regulating the banks without admitting that a more sober, smaller, less volatile, less risky financial sector would have resulted in far less tax revenue and therefore less money to spend. So that "investment" would have had to be postponed or paid for by others. They don't want to do the former and hated to admit that if you spend you also have to tax.

    Hence the fairy story about paying for everything from taxes on bankers' bonuses that EdM was peddling or McDonnell's current nonsense. They simply do not have any sort of economic policy - and that was the case for Brown as well. They have absolutely no idea what a well run economy might look like or what the government's role in creating/enabling this should be.

    It's a long long time since I heard any Labour economic spokesman talk any sense about the economy. Sure they can make effective criticisms now and then. We all can. But other than point the finger of blame at others (bankers, Amazon, tax "gaps", tax avoiders, hedge funds etc) who was the last Labour figure who could give you any sort of coherent picture of what a social democratic economy would look like and how to get there, what the balance of state and private what be, what the role of taxation should be, what is / is not investment, the balance between inflation and employment, the balance of payments etc etc?

    Healey, maybe?
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    edited 2016 22
    Wanderer said:

    MTimT said:

    Close to white out conditions in northern Maryland now. 3-4" of wonderful powder snow so far. Feeling ready - wood stacked and accessible. Generator full and test started. Tractor in front of house with plough and full of diesel. Snowblower oiled up and with a full gas tank, test started. Bath full of water. Plenty of wine. Looking forward to a quiet (like really, snow-dampened quiet) weekend.

    Your weather sounds far more picturesque than ours.

    Northern Maryland is making me think of the lead up to or aftermath of Gettysburg. Were those manoeuvres around your patch?
    Gettysburg is in Southern Pensylvania, but well north of Washington. It was quite a deep invasion, and had JEB Stuart not gone on walkabout then Lee may have succeeded in his aim of defeating the Union army in detail as it raced north to catch up.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @michaelsavage: Oof. @SpenceLivermore says Corbyn supporters more interested in "ideological cleansing" of Labour than winning power https://t.co/UPMtGHXcAA
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    Scott_P said:

    @michaelsavage: Oof. @SpenceLivermore says Corbyn supporters more interested in "ideological cleansing" of Labour than winning power https://t.co/UPMtGHXcAA

    Labour: the Cillit Bang of politics.

  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Scott_P said:

    @michaelsavage: Oof. @SpenceLivermore says Corbyn supporters more interested in "ideological cleansing" of Labour than winning power https://t.co/UPMtGHXcAA

    I think thats been obvious from the outset.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,103
    Once again we have missed the most important result of the night - Valley Ward on Newhaven Town Council. The Merkel loving Europhile Lib Dem Cristophe de Kurthy trounced the pig-dog Ukip candidate as well as the Conservative, Labour, Green and Independent candidates to sweep to victory with 45% of the vote
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    Scott_P said:

    @michaelsavage: Oof. @SpenceLivermore says Corbyn supporters more interested in "ideological cleansing" of Labour than winning power https://t.co/UPMtGHXcAA

    Silly man - you do the ideological cleansing after you take power, isn't that what the Soviets did?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Wanderer said:

    MTimT said:

    Close to white out conditions in northern Maryland now. 3-4" of wonderful powder snow so far. Feeling ready - wood stacked and accessible. Generator full and test started. Tractor in front of house with plough and full of diesel. Snowblower oiled up and with a full gas tank, test started. Bath full of water. Plenty of wine. Looking forward to a quiet (like really, snow-dampened quiet) weekend.

    Your weather sounds far more picturesque than ours.

    Northern Maryland is making me think of the lead up to or aftermath of Gettysburg. Were those manoeuvres around your patch?
    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here. The Battle of Monocacy was very close to us - the Confederates were approaching an essentially undefended DC when a small Unionist detachment fought a delaying engagement over the railway bridge which crosses the Monocacy river just south of Frederick MD.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Monocacy
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    MTimT said:

    Close to white out conditions in northern Maryland now. 3-4" of wonderful powder snow so far. Feeling ready - wood stacked and accessible. Generator full and test started. Tractor in front of house with plough and full of diesel. Snowblower oiled up and with a full gas tank, test started. Bath full of water. Plenty of wine. Looking forward to a quiet (like really, snow-dampened quiet) weekend.

    Your weather sounds far more picturesque than ours.

    Northern Maryland is making me think of the lead up to or aftermath of Gettysburg. Were those manoeuvres around your patch?
    Gettysburg is in Southern Pensylvania, but well north of Washington. It was quite a deep invasion, and had JEB Stuart not gone on walkabout then Lee may have succeeded in his aim of defeating the Union army in detail as it raced north to catch up.
    I know where Gettysburg is. The armies passed through northern Maryland on the way there. Hence my question.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,296
    slade said:

    Once again we have missed the most important result of the night - Valley Ward on Newhaven Town Council. The Merkel loving Europhile Lib Dem Cristophe de Kurthy trounced the pig-dog Ukip candidate as well as the Conservative, Labour, Green and Independent candidates to sweep to victory with 45% of the vote

    I imagine you are now well prepared for government.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    Close to white out conditions in northern Maryland now. 3-4" of wonderful powder snow so far. Feeling ready - wood stacked and accessible. Generator full and test started. Tractor in front of house with plough and full of diesel. Snowblower oiled up and with a full gas tank, test started. Bath full of water. Plenty of wine. Looking forward to a quiet (like really, snow-dampened quiet) weekend.

    Good luck, mate!

    Thanks. The news channels are talking it up as an historic storm. But we are only expecting 30" at worst. In 2010 we had 36" on Feb 6 and then, with that still on the ground, another 20" on the 9th. That was bad. Figure I hand shoveled 30 tons of nasty wet snow to free up the gates to the paddocks so we could feed the horses. Had nerve pain in the left elbow for 6 months afterwards. Not expecting anything like that today through Sunday morning.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Cyclefree said:

    Moses_ said:

    On that crash of Labours ....

    Labour are reissuing their old lie that the Conservative party in Opposition backed Labour borrowing plans and advocated light touch regulation of the banks or even deregulation of the banks. They have always wished to duck responsibility for the great crash that occurred on their watch in 2007-8

    http://www.thecommentator.com/article/5917/labour_s_denial_about_the_2008_crash

    Labour want to claim credit for their spending or "investment" as they prefer to call it and also apologise for not regulating the banks without admitting that a more sober, smaller, less volatile, less risky financial sector would have resulted in far less tax revenues and therefore less money to spend. So that "investment" would have had to be postponed or paid for by others. They don't want to do the former and hated to admit that if you spend you also have to tax.

    Hence the fairy story about paying for everything from taxes on bankers' bonuses that EdM was peddling or McDonnell's current nonsense. They simply do not have any sort of economic policy - and that was the case for Brown as well. They have absolutely no idea what a well run economy might look like or what the government's role in creating/enabling this should be.

    It's a long long time since I heard any Labour economic spokesman talk any sense about the economy. Sure they can make effective criticisms now and then. We all can. But other than point the finger of blame at others (bankers, Amazon, tax "gaps", tax avoiders, hedge funds etc) who was the last Labour figure who could give you any sort of coherent picture of what a social democratic economy would look like and how to get there, what the balance of state and private what be, what the role of taxation should be, what is / is not investment, the balance between inflation and employment, the balance of payments etc etc?

    Healey, maybe?
    Agreed, except for Mr "pips squeak" Healy. My father nearly emigrated along with me and family in the great brain drain of the time. A similar loss occurred again in 2007/ 08 I seem to recollect yet again under a Labour government.

    Before Corbyn was elected LOTO all Labour had to do was at least put their hands up and admit they got it wrong. Yes would have hurt them of course but cleansed in some way and this pain was necessary.

    Ed Milliband had the golden opportunity, fluffed it completely to gasps of the audience then for good measure fell off the stage.

    Labour are and remain (with the present bunch) economically incompetent, they cannot accept responsibility and should be kept as far away from government as possible. As I said it's not the first time, it happens every time they make No 10.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,103
    JohnO said:

    slade said:

    Once again we have missed the most important result of the night - Valley Ward on Newhaven Town Council. The Merkel loving Europhile Lib Dem Cristophe de Kurthy trounced the pig-dog Ukip candidate as well as the Conservative, Labour, Green and Independent candidates to sweep to victory with 45% of the vote

    I imagine you are now well prepared for government.
    Well at least in Newhaven.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited 2016 22
    kle4 said:

    Silly man - you do the ideological cleansing after you take power, isn't that what the Soviets did?

    They have power...

    EDIT They have as much power as they are ever going to get...
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    MTimT said:

    Wanderer said:

    MTimT said:

    Close to white out conditions in northern Maryland now. 3-4" of wonderful powder snow so far. Feeling ready - wood stacked and accessible. Generator full and test started. Tractor in front of house with plough and full of diesel. Snowblower oiled up and with a full gas tank, test started. Bath full of water. Plenty of wine. Looking forward to a quiet (like really, snow-dampened quiet) weekend.

    Your weather sounds far more picturesque than ours.

    Northern Maryland is making me think of the lead up to or aftermath of Gettysburg. Were those manoeuvres around your patch?
    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here. The Battle of Monocacy was very close to us - the Confederates were approaching an essentially undefended DC when a small Unionist detachment fought a delaying engagement over the railway bridge which crosses the Monocacy river just south of Frederick MD.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Monocacy
    Is Trump the new Jubal Early, threatening to seize Washington before fading away?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034


    Gettysburg is in Southern Pensylvania, but well north of Washington.

    LOL. Differences of perspective on show. Gettyburg is (to an American) ONLY 85 miles north of DC, so quite close by. Many people commute further than that.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Google strikes £130m back tax deal - Great FT scoop https://t.co/2IAgZNp3O9 via @FT

    yes and about time. Hopefully we will see some better tax revenues in future related to similar companies.
    Its good that these companies are based here. However when you read that Googles UK business has revenues of $6.5 billion and hardly pays any tax you can see where it becomes difficult to equate UK GDP with a suitably appropriate level of tax revenue. This is the same for all governments of all political parties and all nationalities.

    Interesting also to read that ''Last year our compliance activities yielded £26 billion in extra tax, including £7.3 billion from the largest and most complex businesses''
    I do not believe in high taxes or extortionate taxes, but I know what is fair and moral for a company or individual to pay.
    PS
    Given that Putin is no more than a petty gangster who happens to run a country - maybe it will be the taxman that gets him in the end.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Wanderer said:

    MTimT said:

    Wanderer said:

    MTimT said:

    Close to white out conditions in northern Maryland now. 3-4" of wonderful powder snow so far. Feeling ready - wood stacked and accessible. Generator full and test started. Tractor in front of house with plough and full of diesel. Snowblower oiled up and with a full gas tank, test started. Bath full of water. Plenty of wine. Looking forward to a quiet (like really, snow-dampened quiet) weekend.

    Your weather sounds far more picturesque than ours.

    Northern Maryland is making me think of the lead up to or aftermath of Gettysburg. Were those manoeuvres around your patch?
    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here. The Battle of Monocacy was very close to us - the Confederates were approaching an essentially undefended DC when a small Unionist detachment fought a delaying engagement over the railway bridge which crosses the Monocacy river just south of Frederick MD.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Monocacy
    Is Trump the new Jubal Early, threatening to seize Washington before fading away?
    Insha'a allah.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,085
    Cyclefree said:

    Labour want to claim credit for their spending or "investment" as they prefer to call it and also apologise for not regulating the banks without admitting that a more sober, smaller, less volatile, less risky financial sector would have resulted in far less tax revenue and therefore less money to spend. So that "investment" would have had to be postponed or paid for by others. They don't want to do the former and hated to admit that if you spend you also have to tax.

    I think you are right there. There's a reluctance to own the regulatory and economic mess that Labour created as it's tied to the "investment" they are still absurdly proud of. If they say that "yes the financial regulations were terribly weak" implicitly there should have been much less spending.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    MTimT said:

    Wanderer said:

    MTimT said:

    Wanderer said:

    MTimT said:

    Close to white out conditions in northern Maryland now. 3-4" of wonderful powder snow so far. Feeling ready - wood stacked and accessible. Generator full and test started. Tractor in front of house with plough and full of diesel. Snowblower oiled up and with a full gas tank, test started. Bath full of water. Plenty of wine. Looking forward to a quiet (like really, snow-dampened quiet) weekend.

    Your weather sounds far more picturesque than ours.

    Northern Maryland is making me think of the lead up to or aftermath of Gettysburg. Were those manoeuvres around your patch?
    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here. The Battle of Monocacy was very close to us - the Confederates were approaching an essentially undefended DC when a small Unionist detachment fought a delaying engagement over the railway bridge which crosses the Monocacy river just south of Frederick MD.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Monocacy
    Is Trump the new Jubal Early, threatening to seize Washington before fading away?
    Insha'a allah.
    Good answer sir :)
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    MTimT said:


    Gettysburg is in Southern Pensylvania, but well north of Washington.

    LOL. Differences of perspective on show. Gettyburg is (to an American) ONLY 85 miles north of DC, so quite close by. Many people commute further than that.
    Not in 1863.
    I'm guessing you can commute between Washington and Richmond today!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:

    @michaelsavage: Oof. @SpenceLivermore says Corbyn supporters more interested in "ideological cleansing" of Labour than winning power https://t.co/UPMtGHXcAA

    The right of the party are no better. My next but one piece will focus on their delusions.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,085
    edited 2016 22

    Given that Putin is no more than a petty gangster who happens to run a country - maybe it will be the taxman that gets him in the end.

    Probably not when the Federal Tax Police, now the MVD, are said to be used as an instrument to deal with political opponents.

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    With that time, you could do pretty much everything from Pennsylvania down to Florida. I did a 4-week road trip when I left New York City - lot of driving, but I covered most of the US east of the Mississippi, at least superficially.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,029
    Apologies for going off topic. I was chatting to the Hungarian ambassador this evening about Cameron's EU renegotiation and he sounded very confident that a deal would be done by June at the latest. That would strongly imply a referendum this year. He suggested that the lack of public rowing and leaking is actually a positive sign that things are happening.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    slade said:

    JohnO said:

    slade said:

    Once again we have missed the most important result of the night - Valley Ward on Newhaven Town Council. The Merkel loving Europhile Lib Dem Cristophe de Kurthy trounced the pig-dog Ukip candidate as well as the Conservative, Labour, Green and Independent candidates to sweep to victory with 45% of the vote

    I imagine you are now well prepared for government.
    Well at least in Newhaven.
    Newhaven Marine! :)

    http://www.britishrailwaystations.co.uk/newhavenmarine.html
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    You would find more fences now (and chickens) than if you were literally following Sherman!
    I too would like to visit Gettysburg, but these days I doubt that I ever will. Its a battle that was full of incident and controversy, and personality too. Quite a large number of 'what ifs'.
    It should be remembered though that even following Gettysburg it was almost a year before Grant launched his Overland Campaign and it was over a year after that to Appomattox.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Apologies for going off topic. I was chatting to the Hungarian ambassador this evening about Cameron's EU renegotiation and he sounded very confident that a deal would be done by June at the latest. That would strongly imply a referendum this year. He suggested that the lack of public rowing and leaking is actually a positive sign that things are happening.

    As I said to the Duke of Edinburgh the other day, 'I can't stand name droppers'.

    :-)
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:


    Gettysburg is in Southern Pensylvania, but well north of Washington.

    LOL. Differences of perspective on show. Gettyburg is (to an American) ONLY 85 miles north of DC, so quite close by. Many people commute further than that.
    Not in 1863.
    I'm guessing you can commute between Washington and Richmond today!
    Very easily and many do. The battle of Monocacy was much closer to DC than Gettysburg - 40 miles. Even in those days, that was less than a day's ride (50-60 miles for a sprint forward), and 2 day's march.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,147
    edited 2016 22
    MTimT said:


    Gettysburg is in Southern Pensylvania, but well north of Washington.

    LOL. Differences of perspective on show. Gettyburg is (to an American) ONLY 85 miles north of DC, so quite close by. Many people commute further than that.
    Indeed, I went to Gettysburg on a guided tour as part of a school politics trip to DC and then did some whitewater rafting not too far away, also managed to fit in Mount Vernon too
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548

    Apologies for going off topic. I was chatting to the Hungarian ambassador this evening about Cameron's EU renegotiation and he sounded very confident that a deal would be done by June at the latest. That would strongly imply a referendum this year. He suggested that the lack of public rowing and leaking is actually a positive sign that things are happening.

    I'm sure a deal will be done. It's what kind of a deal and whether it will stick which matter. To some, anyway.

  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    glw said:

    Given that Putin is no more than a petty gangster who happens to run a country - maybe it will be the taxman that gets him in the end.

    Probably not when the Federal Tax Police, now the MVD, are said to be used as an instrument to deal with political opponents.

    I did not really mean the Russian tax police. But I take your point.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    You would find more fences now (and chickens) than if you were literally following Sherman!
    I too would like to visit Gettysburg, but these days I doubt that I ever will. Its a battle that was full of incident and controversy, and personality too. Quite a large number of 'what ifs'.
    It should be remembered though that even following Gettysburg it was almost a year before Grant launched his Overland Campaign and it was over a year after that to Appomattox.
    Right. Insofar as Gettysburg was a turning point it's more on the other side. If Lee had won ...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Cyclefree

    If the film 'The big Short' is accurate which I suspect it is then governments unless they had a crystal ball had very little reason to foretell the events that caused the economic collapse of 07/08. The mortgage bundles that brought down the US banks were all given 'triple A' ratings by the rating agencies and the rules had been in place for about 30 years so it's difficult to see what Brown or Bush should have been aware of?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    glw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Labour want to claim credit for their spending or "investment" as they prefer to call it and also apologise for not regulating the banks without admitting that a more sober, smaller, less volatile, less risky financial sector would have resulted in far less tax revenue and therefore less money to spend. So that "investment" would have had to be postponed or paid for by others. They don't want to do the former and hated to admit that if you spend you also have to tax.

    I think you are right there. There's a reluctance to own the regulatory and economic mess that Labour created as it's tied to the "investment" they are still absurdly proud of. If they say that "yes the financial regulations were terribly weak" implicitly there should have been much less spending.
    It's not just the regulatory and economic mess they own. They own the intellectually dishonest delusion that you can have a large public sector without making everyone - not just the rich - pay much much more for it in taxes, direct and indirect. I think the right of the Labour party suffer from this delusion though I dare say Mr Meeks will have something to say on the topic.

    Until they admit this they will get nowhere. They may still get nowhere but at least it would be a coherent case of a sort. They would still need to explain how an economy with a large state would function and how it would function well. These are not givens.

    But they do not have a clue. They went from the "tax and spend" of the 60's and 70's to the "tax the banks and spend" of the 97-2010 period to, well, what now?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,748
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    If the film 'The big Short' is accurate which I suspect it is then governments unless they had a crystal ball had very little reason to foretell the events that caused the economic collapse of 07/08. The mortgage bundles that brought down the US banks were all given 'triple A' ratings by the rating agencies and the rules had been in place for about 30 years so it's difficult to see what Brown or Bush should have been aware of?

    I've just come back from watching The Big Short, really enjoyed it. I think you're hoping beyond hope that it will help restore the reputation of Gordon Brown or the last Labour government.

    I just need to work the opening of the film into an upcoming thread

    'Truth is like poetry. And most people fucking hate poetry.'
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    If the film 'The big Short' is accurate which I suspect it is then governments unless they had a crystal ball had very little reason to foretell the events that caused the economic collapse of 07/08. The mortgage bundles that brought down the US banks were all given 'triple A' ratings by the rating agencies and the rules had been in place for about 30 years so it's difficult to see what Brown or Bush should have been aware of?

    By 2006 there was already heavy criticism of the rating agencies treatment of CDOs in the public domain from non fringe sources. The fragility of the US economy and it's reliance on a housing bubble was clear enough that I was expounding on the risks to an overly smug American office mate.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    You would find more fences now (and chickens) than if you were literally following Sherman!
    I too would like to visit Gettysburg, but these days I doubt that I ever will. Its a battle that was full of incident and controversy, and personality too. Quite a large number of 'what ifs'.
    It should be remembered though that even following Gettysburg it was almost a year before Grant launched his Overland Campaign and it was over a year after that to Appomattox.
    Right. Insofar as Gettysburg was a turning point it's more on the other side. If Lee had won ...
    As I guess you will know it was Grant's similarly timed Vicksburg Campaign (and the Battle of Champion Hill) which was at least equally significant. It cut the confederacy in half and denied it the resources from west of the Mississippi.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Alistair said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    If the film 'The big Short' is accurate which I suspect it is then governments unless they had a crystal ball had very little reason to foretell the events that caused the economic collapse of 07/08. The mortgage bundles that brought down the US banks were all given 'triple A' ratings by the rating agencies and the rules had been in place for about 30 years so it's difficult to see what Brown or Bush should have been aware of?

    By 2006 there was already heavy criticism of the rating agencies treatment of CDOs in the public domain from non fringe sources. The fragility of the US economy and it's reliance on a housing bubble was clear enough that I was expounding on the risks to an overly smug American office mate.
    It all goes back to Clinton's period and effectively forcing banks and mortgage lenders to give sub prime mortgages. I don't know what if any pressure was put on ratings agencies.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Scott_P said:

    @michaelsavage: Oof. @SpenceLivermore says Corbyn supporters more interested in "ideological cleansing" of Labour than winning power https://t.co/UPMtGHXcAA

    The right of the party are no better. My next but one piece will focus on their delusions.
    ITs the sort of idealistic cleansing that will nigh on kill the patient..

    Every day that passes makes me more aghast at what Labour is doing to itself.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,147
    Jeremy Corbyn says he will donate the £6,000 raised by supporters to buy him his 'dream bike' to charity
    https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=corbyn bike
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,029

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    If the film 'The big Short' is accurate which I suspect it is then governments unless they had a crystal ball had very little reason to foretell the events that caused the economic collapse of 07/08. The mortgage bundles that brought down the US banks were all given 'triple A' ratings by the rating agencies and the rules had been in place for about 30 years so it's difficult to see what Brown or Bush should have been aware of?

    I've just come back from watching The Big Short, really enjoyed it. I think you're hoping beyond hope that it will help restore the reputation of Gordon Brown or the last Labour government.

    I just need to work the opening of the film into an upcoming thread

    'Truth is like poetry. And most people fucking hate poetry.'
    It is a truth we cannot see
    Our now-forgotten history
    It lies so smothered now in myth
    or scattered like Ed's monolith
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Apologies for going off topic. I was chatting to the Hungarian ambassador this evening about Cameron's EU renegotiation and he sounded very confident that a deal would be done by June at the latest. That would strongly imply a referendum this year. He suggested that the lack of public rowing and leaking is actually a positive sign that things are happening.

    That's interesting.

    If the rest of the EU (its members and institutions) act rationally, I think they would conclude:

    1) The UK leaving is really really bad
    2) The best hope of preventing that is to give Cameron a plausible-looking deal sooner rather than later (which fits with what you're saying)

    The impact of the migration crisis, which had been so much discussed here today, is no secret. Nor are the polls. It's obvious that Cameron has a real fight on his hands. If you want to stave off Brexit you need to cut a deal quickly.

    However, people don't always act rationally. Also, I'm not sure if everyone agrees with point 1.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    It is! The battle field is very well "museumified" ( the Yanks do that so well - see Williamsburg too). Standing on the Union lines behind the wall defended from Picket's charge you can vividly see it was hopeless even with mid 19th century firepower- just madness.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    If the film 'The big Short' is accurate which I suspect it is then governments unless they had a crystal ball had very little reason to foretell the events that caused the economic collapse of 07/08. The mortgage bundles that brought down the US banks were all given 'triple A' ratings by the rating agencies and the rules had been in place for about 30 years so it's difficult to see what Brown or Bush should have been aware of?

    That's rubbish. Lewis writes good books on aspects of the financial crisis which help illuminate it. But his stories do not explain or excuse a wilful turning of blind eyes by governments because it suited them to do so and because they were often too stupid to ask obvious questions.

    Lending money on property to people who cannot pay it back has been at the heart of many busts in my lifetime let alone longer than that. It's pretty bog standard stuff. Of course governments should have asked questions about (a) the increases in banks' balance sheets; (b) to whom they were lending; (c) what all these fancy instruments were; (d) why they were being bundled up; and (e) to whom they were being sold.

    And that's only some of the questions to be asked.

    Let's take the last one: banks were selling these products as a way, at least initially, of getting the risk off their books. Personally, I'd be very wary indeed of any bank which says it has got rid of risk because a bank that doesn't understand that you can never get rid of risk, you can only manage it is one dangerously stupid bank.

    What banks were doing as the market in these products grew was that they were selling them to each other. Rather than minimise risk they were increasing it. They were taking stuff on without realising it and without understanding it. And the very same process happened in the insurance market in London - in Lloyds - some years earlier. So not only was it foreseeable. It had happened. And in the City. And there was plenty of information around about how it happened and what the risks were.

    Everything that happened in the 2007 crash has happened in my lifetime, sometimes more than once, maybe not in exactly the same sequence or in precisely the same combination. But it has all happened. There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to financial crashes.

    Brown, Bush, Greenspan and all the rest of them did not see because they did not want to see, because they believed their own bullshit, because they did not have the courage or brains to ask some obvious questions.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,029
    Cyclefree said:

    Apologies for going off topic. I was chatting to the Hungarian ambassador this evening about Cameron's EU renegotiation and he sounded very confident that a deal would be done by June at the latest. That would strongly imply a referendum this year. He suggested that the lack of public rowing and leaking is actually a positive sign that things are happening.

    I'm sure a deal will be done. It's what kind of a deal and whether it will stick which matter. To some, anyway.

    Speaking purely from a Hungarian angle, he said their government supported three and a bit of the four goals Cameron was aiming at (he didn't say which the fourth was - possibly the benefits although I don't think that Hungary provided all that many immigrants to the UK post-2004). Question is how many others are prepared to go that far. The interesting hint is that it's not being decided at EU Council level (yet) i.e. a lot is going on at ambassadorial and in PM / FS bilaterals. If so, Cameron may be able to present a set of proposals in June that are more-or-less sold around the table. That's my surmise, anyway.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,085
    edited 2016 22
    Cyclefree said:

    It's not just the regulatory and economic mess they own. They own the intellectually dishonest delusion that you can have a large public sector without making everyone - not just the rich - pay much much more for it in taxes, direct and indirect.

    I agree with that too. The dozen or so times the bankers bonus tax was going to be spent was absurd. Everybody wants higher spending when some other poor bugger will pay the tax.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    HYUFD said:

    MTimT said:


    Gettysburg is in Southern Pensylvania, but well north of Washington.

    LOL. Differences of perspective on show. Gettyburg is (to an American) ONLY 85 miles north of DC, so quite close by. Many people commute further than that.
    Indeed, I went to Gettysburg on a guided tour as part of a school politics trip to DC and then did some whitewater rafting not too far away, also managed to fit in Mount Vernon too
    All in one day! :-)
    It would take me at least 2 days to 'do' Gettysburg
    (BTW - try walking 85 miles with no shoes in June)
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    You would find more fences now (and chickens) than if you were literally following Sherman!
    I too would like to visit Gettysburg, but these days I doubt that I ever will. Its a battle that was full of incident and controversy, and personality too. Quite a large number of 'what ifs'.
    It should be remembered though that even following Gettysburg it was almost a year before Grant launched his Overland Campaign and it was over a year after that to Appomattox.
    Right. Insofar as Gettysburg was a turning point it's more on the other side. If Lee had won ...
    As I guess you will know it was Grant's similarly timed Vicksburg Campaign (and the Battle of Champion Hill) which was at least equally significant. It cut the confederacy in half and denied it the resources from west of the Mississippi.
    I'd like to include the Mississippi sites in my fantasy tour. (Like Jefferson Davis I'm not really arsed about the Trans-Mississippi.)

    Also, I've read that Vicksburg is no longer on the river, thanks to the vagaries of the Mississippi itself. Still, it would be on the list, obviously.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,103
    I have just been catching up on Lucy Worsley's Empire of the Tsars - The Romanovs. Intrigued that she called them the Romaanoffs not the Roman-offs. But the stress in Russian is often on the second syllable - so Ulyanov, Prokofiev. But what about Sharapova, Rokossovski, Rostropovich? Does anyone know if there are rules?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    slade said:

    I have just been catching up on Lucy Worsley's Empire of the Tsars - The Romanovs. Intrigued that she called them the Romaanoffs not the Roman-offs. But the stress in Russian is often on the second syllable - so Ulyanov, Prokofiev. But what about Sharapova, Rokossovski, Rostropovich? Does anyone know if there are rules?

    I don't know, but your post has got me listening to Rostropovich playing the Dvorak concerto, so there's that.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    slade said:

    I have just been catching up on Lucy Worsley's Empire of the Tsars - The Romanovs. Intrigued that she called them the Romaanoffs not the Roman-offs. But the stress in Russian is often on the second syllable - so Ulyanov, Prokofiev. But what about Sharapova, Rokossovski, Rostropovich? Does anyone know if there are rules?

    According to the International Phonetic Alphabet, it's [rɐˈmanəf]. So long 'a' as in Father.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    You would find more fences now (and chickens) than if you were literally following Sherman!
    I too would like to visit Gettysburg, but these days I doubt that I ever will. Its a battle that was full of incident and controversy, and personality too. Quite a large number of 'what ifs'.
    It should be remembered though that even following Gettysburg it was almost a year before Grant launched his Overland Campaign and it was over a year after that to Appomattox.
    Right. Insofar as Gettysburg was a turning point it's more on the other side. If Lee had won ...
    As I guess you will know it was Grant's similarly timed Vicksburg Campaign (and the Battle of Champion Hill) which was at least equally significant. It cut the confederacy in half and denied it the resources from west of the Mississippi.
    I'd like to include the Mississippi sites in my fantasy tour. (Like Jefferson Davis I'm not really arsed about the Trans-Mississippi.)

    Also, I've read that Vicksburg is no longer on the river, thanks to the vagaries of the Mississippi itself. Still, it would be on the list, obviously.
    I have not heard about Vicksburg not being on the river.
    It surrendered on 4th July and it never celebrated Independence Day for years and decades after that.
    My understanding was that Davis was from Mississippi and knew the area well. He picked the wrong man to command at Vicksburg.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited 2016 22
    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    You would find more fences now (and chickens) than if you were literally following Sherman!
    I too would like to visit Gettysburg, but these days I doubt that I ever will. Its a battle that was full of incident and controversy, and personality too. Quite a large number of 'what ifs'.
    It should be remembered though that even following Gettysburg it was almost a year before Grant launched his Overland Campaign and it was over a year after that to Appomattox.
    Right. Insofar as Gettysburg was a turning point it's more on the other side. If Lee had won ...
    As I guess you will know it was Grant's similarly timed Vicksburg Campaign (and the Battle of Champion Hill) which was at least equally significant. It cut the confederacy in half and denied it the resources from west of the Mississippi.
    I'd like to include the Mississippi sites in my fantasy tour. (Like Jefferson Davis I'm not really arsed about the Trans-Mississippi.)

    Also, I've read that Vicksburg is no longer on the river, thanks to the vagaries of the Mississippi itself. Still, it would be on the list, obviously.
    I went to Vicksburg about 5 years ago. Yes, the river has changed course, but still flows through the city. You can drive round the battlefield but it doesn't convey much.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,103
    Wanderer said:

    slade said:

    I have just been catching up on Lucy Worsley's Empire of the Tsars - The Romanovs. Intrigued that she called them the Romaanoffs not the Roman-offs. But the stress in Russian is often on the second syllable - so Ulyanov, Prokofiev. But what about Sharapova, Rokossovski, Rostropovich? Does anyone know if there are rules?

    I don't know, but your post has got me listening to Rostropovich playing the Dvorak concerto, so there's that.
    and I have been listening to Jacqueline du Pre - close call!
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Only the mountain remains? I suppose that will happen. Perhaps I should scratch the march to the sea re-enactment.

    I believe Chickamauga has stuff worth seeing.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Are you done with the storm yet? How was it?
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    I thought the Nat was elected on the 6th count.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited 2016 22
    Wanderer said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Only the mountain remains? I suppose that will happen. Perhaps I should scratch the march to the sea re-enactment.

    I believe Chickamauga has stuff worth seeing.
    Kennesaw Mountain is worth a visit. They have cannons etc still in place with good signage and you can get a good sense of how the battle went.

    Oakland Cemetery in Atlanta is worth a visit too. They have a large Confederate section, not to mention Margaret Mitchell, Bobby Jones (take a golf ball to leave on his grave) and folks from the Great Locomotive Chase (immortalized in Buster Keaton's "The General"). The locomotive itself is on display in Kennesaw I believe.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited 2016 22
    Cyclefree

    "Everything that happened in the 2007 crash has happened in my lifetime, sometimes more than once, maybe not in exactly the same sequence or in precisely the same combination. But it has all happened. There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to financial crashes."

    If the crash was so easy to predict why didn't more people make a killing out of predicting it? As I said when talking about the film-which claims to be true-the morality of the premise is very suspect.

    It's about one fund manager who convinced the housing market would collapse made a fortune out of correctly predicting it.

    In the meantime he could get no one to believe him including his clients his partners the five leading banks and uncle Tom Cobley and all.

    If it was common knowledge among you and the PB betting fraterity it's odd that no one shared it and then we could all have made fortunes
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Are you done with the storm yet? How was it?
    Basically, light rain and wind all day. Looks like we're done. It's just cold. I suspect you won't be so lucky.

    Reminds me of that old Tommy Cooper joke - I asked the doctor if he had anything for wind and he gave me a kite.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,103
    and so to bed - with Conn Iggulden's second volume of his Wars of the Roses Trilogy, Trinity. Bad dreams perhaps!
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    "Everything that happened in the 2007 crash has happened in my lifetime, sometimes more than once, maybe not in exactly the same sequence or in precisely the same combination. But it has all happened. There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to financial crashes."

    If the crash was so easy to predict why didn't more people make a killing out of predicting it? As I said when talking about the film-which claims to be true-the morality of the premise is very suspect.

    It's about one fund manager who convinced the housing market would collapse made a fortune out of correctly predicting it.

    In the meantime he could get no one to believe him including his clients his partners the five leading banks and uncle Tom Cobley and all.

    If it was common knowledge among you and the PB betting fraterity it's odd that no one shared it and then we could all have made fortunes


    I did very accurately predict the deficit explosion though, criticising the government for running an unnecessarily high deficit.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    "Everything that happened in the 2007 crash has happened in my lifetime, sometimes more than once, maybe not in exactly the same sequence or in precisely the same combination. But it has all happened. There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to financial crashes."

    If the crash was so easy to predict why didn't more people make a killing out of predicting it? As I said when talking about the film-which claims to be true-the morality of the premise is very suspect.

    It's about one fund manager who convinced the housing market would collapse made a fortune out of correctly predicting it.

    In the meantime he could get no one to believe him including his clients his partners the five leading banks and uncle Tom Cobley and all.

    If it was common knowledge among you and the PB betting fraterity it's odd that no one shared it and then we could all have made fortunes

    I don't bet on the financial markets. But I did not take on debt during this time. I did the opposite.

    I have read the book. Being aware that things are not right is a long way from trying to make money out of your views.

    The main reason more people did not speak up is because lots of people had a vested interest in what was going on, lots of people wanted to believe that we had reached some sort of economic nirvana and Cassandras - and there were some - are rarely popular and even less rarely believed. And those who did point out the problems were poo-poohed. Look at all those IMF warnings to Brown.

    It's the same old story in pretty much every crisis.

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Are you done with the storm yet? How was it?
    Basically, light rain and wind all day. Looks like we're done. It's just cold. I suspect you won't be so lucky.

    Reminds me of that old Tommy Cooper joke - I asked the doctor if he had anything for wind and he gave me a kite.
    Looks like the worst will be to the east and south of us - more Annapolis and Baltimore than DC and Frederick. So far, about 4", but it is very light and powdery, so only about 5lb a shovel. Easy clean up so far. But the worst is to come. TV is predicting a switch to full blizzard shortly as the moisture from the ocean gets pulled onshore.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,147

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT said:


    Gettysburg is in Southern Pensylvania, but well north of Washington.

    LOL. Differences of perspective on show. Gettyburg is (to an American) ONLY 85 miles north of DC, so quite close by. Many people commute further than that.
    Indeed, I went to Gettysburg on a guided tour as part of a school politics trip to DC and then did some whitewater rafting not too far away, also managed to fit in Mount Vernon too
    All in one day! :-)
    It would take me at least 2 days to 'do' Gettysburg
    (BTW - try walking 85 miles with no shoes in June)
    No, it was a three week trip, stayed two nights in Pennsylvania and visited New York at the end too
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    "Everything that happened in the 2007 crash has happened in my lifetime, sometimes more than once, maybe not in exactly the same sequence or in precisely the same combination. But it has all happened. There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to financial crashes."

    If the crash was so easy to predict why didn't more people make a killing out of predicting it? As I said when talking about the film-which claims to be true-the morality of the premise is very suspect.

    It's about one fund manager who convinced the housing market would collapse made a fortune out of correctly predicting it.

    In the meantime he could get no one to believe him including his clients his partners the five leading banks and uncle Tom Cobley and all.

    If it was common knowledge among you and the PB betting fraterity it's odd that no one shared it and then we could all have made fortunes

    It was foreseen though, Roger, and people were shouting warnings. Some people did not, would not listen. Who was it on this very site who said the run on Northern Rock was nothing to worry about and, "Will be forgotten by Friday"?
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Only the mountain remains? I suppose that will happen. Perhaps I should scratch the march to the sea re-enactment.

    I believe Chickamauga has stuff worth seeing.
    Kennesaw Mountain is worth a visit. They have cannons etc still in place with good signage and you can get a good sense of how the battle went.

    Oakland Cemetery in Atlanta is worth a visit too. They have a large Confederate section, not to mention Margaret Mitchell, Bobby Jones (take a golf ball to leave on his grave) and folks from the Great Locomotive Chase (immortalized in Buster Keaton's "The General"). The locomotive itself is on display in Kennesaw I believe.
    Shermans March to the Sea and subsequent march up through the Carolinas was marked by an absence of battles. The whole point was he had no lines of communications and his opponents were too weak to stand.
    Indeed even his advance to Atlanta was relatively bereft of battles as Johnson tended to withdraw to keephis army in being. Kennesaw Mountain was a rarity as Sherman tended to try to outflank Johnson.

    The main big battle of that period was between Hood and Thomas at Nashville.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Are you done with the storm yet? How was it?
    Basically, light rain and wind all day. Looks like we're done. It's just cold. I suspect you won't be so lucky.

    Reminds me of that old Tommy Cooper joke - I asked the doctor if he had anything for wind and he gave me a kite.
    Looks like the worst will be to the east and south of us - more Annapolis and Baltimore than DC and Frederick. So far, about 4", but it is very light and powdery, so only about 5lb a shovel. Easy clean up so far. But the worst is to come. TV is predicting a switch to full blizzard shortly as the moisture from the ocean gets pulled onshore.
    I just let Heidi out in the back yard and noticed a dusting of snow on my BBQ. Everywhere else is just soggy and damp.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    notme said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    "Everything that happened in the 2007 crash has happened in my lifetime, sometimes more than once, maybe not in exactly the same sequence or in precisely the same combination. But it has all happened. There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to financial crashes."

    If the crash was so easy to predict why didn't more people make a killing out of predicting it? As I said when talking about the film-which claims to be true-the morality of the premise is very suspect.

    It's about one fund manager who convinced the housing market would collapse made a fortune out of correctly predicting it.

    In the meantime he could get no one to believe him including his clients his partners the five leading banks and uncle Tom Cobley and all.

    If it was common knowledge among you and the PB betting fraterity it's odd that no one shared it and then we could all have made fortunes


    I did very accurately predict the deficit explosion though, criticising the government for running an unnecessarily high deficit.
    I fancy selling the housing market later this year or early next, but I'm not sure how to go about it?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    I've always have had a interest in the American civil war with a name like mine(My proper name ;-) )

    Love to visit those sites one day ;-)
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Only the mountain remains? I suppose that will happen. Perhaps I should scratch the march to the sea re-enactment.

    I believe Chickamauga has stuff worth seeing.
    Kennesaw Mountain is worth a visit. They have cannons etc still in place with good signage and you can get a good sense of how the battle went.

    Oakland Cemetery in Atlanta is worth a visit too. They have a large Confederate section, not to mention Margaret Mitchell, Bobby Jones (take a golf ball to leave on his grave) and folks from the Great Locomotive Chase (immortalized in Buster Keaton's "The General"). The locomotive itself is on display in Kennesaw I believe.
    Shermans March to the Sea and subsequent march up through the Carolinas was marked by an absence of battles. The whole point was he had no lines of communications and his opponents were too weak to stand.
    Indeed even his advance to Atlanta was relatively bereft of battles as Johnson tended to withdraw to keephis army in being. Kennesaw Mountain was a rarity as Sherman tended to try to outflank Johnson.

    The main big battle of that period was between Hood and Thomas at Nashville.
    There were huge earthworks to defend Atlanta. There's nothing left of these.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Are you done with the storm yet? How was it?
    Basically, light rain and wind all day. Looks like we're done. It's just cold. I suspect you won't be so lucky.

    Reminds me of that old Tommy Cooper joke - I asked the doctor if he had anything for wind and he gave me a kite.
    Looks like the worst will be to the east and south of us - more Annapolis and Baltimore than DC and Frederick. So far, about 4", but it is very light and powdery, so only about 5lb a shovel. Easy clean up so far. But the worst is to come. TV is predicting a switch to full blizzard shortly as the moisture from the ocean gets pulled onshore.
    I just let Heidi out in the back yard and noticed a dusting of snow on my BBQ. Everywhere else is just soggy and damp.
    Ah, this is your election-predicting dog that I've been hearing about? Does she have any tips for Iowa?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Are you done with the storm yet? How was it?
    Basically, light rain and wind all day. Looks like we're done. It's just cold. I suspect you won't be so lucky.

    Reminds me of that old Tommy Cooper joke - I asked the doctor if he had anything for wind and he gave me a kite.
    Looks like the worst will be to the east and south of us - more Annapolis and Baltimore than DC and Frederick. So far, about 4", but it is very light and powdery, so only about 5lb a shovel. Easy clean up so far. But the worst is to come. TV is predicting a switch to full blizzard shortly as the moisture from the ocean gets pulled onshore.
    I just let Heidi out in the back yard and noticed a dusting of snow on my BBQ. Everywhere else is just soggy and damp.
    You have Heidi Klum at your house?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Wanderer said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Are you done with the storm yet? How was it?
    Basically, light rain and wind all day. Looks like we're done. It's just cold. I suspect you won't be so lucky.

    Reminds me of that old Tommy Cooper joke - I asked the doctor if he had anything for wind and he gave me a kite.
    Looks like the worst will be to the east and south of us - more Annapolis and Baltimore than DC and Frederick. So far, about 4", but it is very light and powdery, so only about 5lb a shovel. Easy clean up so far. But the worst is to come. TV is predicting a switch to full blizzard shortly as the moisture from the ocean gets pulled onshore.
    I just let Heidi out in the back yard and noticed a dusting of snow on my BBQ. Everywhere else is just soggy and damp.
    Ah, this is your election-predicting dog that I've been hearing about? Does she have any tips for Iowa?
    Yepper = that's her. Not yet, but we're working on it.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    rcs1000 said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Are you done with the storm yet? How was it?
    Basically, light rain and wind all day. Looks like we're done. It's just cold. I suspect you won't be so lucky.

    Reminds me of that old Tommy Cooper joke - I asked the doctor if he had anything for wind and he gave me a kite.
    Looks like the worst will be to the east and south of us - more Annapolis and Baltimore than DC and Frederick. So far, about 4", but it is very light and powdery, so only about 5lb a shovel. Easy clean up so far. But the worst is to come. TV is predicting a switch to full blizzard shortly as the moisture from the ocean gets pulled onshore.
    I just let Heidi out in the back yard and noticed a dusting of snow on my BBQ. Everywhere else is just soggy and damp.
    You have Heidi Klum at your house?
    No, just Heidi the German Shepherd and prognosticating canine. She thinks I'm much better than Heidi Klum ever would ;)
  • RogueywonRogueywon Posts: 28
    So actually talking about the article...

    In so far as we can tell anything at all from a tiny handful of local results...

    The Conservative vote is holding up well. We've passed peak-UKIP. The Lib Dems still haven't hit bottom. Labour are continuing to lose ground in straight fights against the Conservatives or SNP, but have mildly benefited from former UKIP voters returning to their old affiliations.

    That said, the Newington/Thanet result was heavily driven by the Manston Airport issue. Labour was previously hammered in the area for having the temerity to suggest that it might not be worth a taxpayer bailout for an airport which had never managed to keep its head above water financially since it was sold off by the RAF. UKIP and the Conservatives both promised that if they got in, they would use the magical powers of rainbows, pixies and unicorns to re-open the airport. UKIP got in, quickly realised it couldn't deliver on its promise and is now being castigated for its U-Turn (it's turned into a localised version of the Lib Dem tuition fees turnaround).
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Tim_B said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Are you done with the storm yet? How was it?
    Basically, light rain and wind all day. Looks like we're done. It's just cold. I suspect you won't be so lucky.

    Reminds me of that old Tommy Cooper joke - I asked the doctor if he had anything for wind and he gave me a kite.
    Looks like the worst will be to the east and south of us - more Annapolis and Baltimore than DC and Frederick. So far, about 4", but it is very light and powdery, so only about 5lb a shovel. Easy clean up so far. But the worst is to come. TV is predicting a switch to full blizzard shortly as the moisture from the ocean gets pulled onshore.
    I just let Heidi out in the back yard and noticed a dusting of snow on my BBQ. Everywhere else is just soggy and damp.
    You have Heidi Klum at your house?
    No, just Heidi the German Shepherd and prognosticating canine. She thinks I'm much better than Heidi Klum ever would ;)
    Somehow this exchange reminded me of Peter Sellers and Dudley More down the pub:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvQq_tqB0jA
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Only the mountain remains? I suppose that will happen. Perhaps I should scratch the march to the sea re-enactment.

    I believe Chickamauga has stuff worth seeing.
    Kennesaw Mountain is worth a visit. They have cannons etc still in place with good signage and you can get a good sense of how the battle went.

    Oakland Cemetery in Atlanta is worth a visit too. They have a large Confederate section, not to mention Margaret Mitchell, Bobby Jones (take a golf ball to leave on his grave) and folks from the Great Locomotive Chase (immortalized in Buster Keaton's "The General"). The locomotive itself is on display in Kennesaw I believe.
    Shermans March to the Sea and subsequent march up through the Carolinas was marked by an absence of battles. The whole point was he had no lines of communications and his opponents were too weak to stand.
    Indeed even his advance to Atlanta was relatively bereft of battles as Johnson tended to withdraw to keephis army in being. Kennesaw Mountain was a rarity as Sherman tended to try to outflank Johnson.

    The main big battle of that period was between Hood and Thomas at Nashville.
    There were huge earthworks to defend Atlanta. There's nothing left of these.
    No I guess not. I suppose the town would want the memory of them and they were wasted. Atlanta must have expanded as well.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Are you done with the storm yet? How was it?
    Basically, light rain and wind all day. Looks like we're done. It's just cold. I suspect you won't be so lucky.

    Reminds me of that old Tommy Cooper joke - I asked the doctor if he had anything for wind and he gave me a kite.
    Looks like the worst will be to the east and south of us - more Annapolis and Baltimore than DC and Frederick. So far, about 4", but it is very light and powdery, so only about 5lb a shovel. Easy clean up so far. But the worst is to come. TV is predicting a switch to full blizzard shortly as the moisture from the ocean gets pulled onshore.
    I just let Heidi out in the back yard and noticed a dusting of snow on my BBQ. Everywhere else is just soggy and damp.
    You have Heidi Klum at your house?
    No, just Heidi the German Shepherd and prognosticating canine. She thinks I'm much better than Heidi Klum ever would ;)
    Somehow this exchange reminded me of Peter Sellers and Dudley More down the pub:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvQq_tqB0jA
    Peter Cook!!!! Pete and Dud - comedy gold.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,598
    edited 2016 22
    This is for SeanT, though I'm not sure if he's around - he asked for info on Bhutan, and I promised to ask a friend who's familiar with the area. May be of interest to others:

    I've not been to Bhutan but it's culturally similar to Nepal . My advice would be:

    Take some iodine and a dropper bottle,dead cheap from a pharmacist. 6 drops per litre in the water and leave for half an hour, kills all the nasties. Some Americans we met had very expensive and heavy kit which didn't work.

    Don't eat salads, local curried food which has been boiled for ages is best. Eat what the locals eat.

    Places will offer fancy food, best to avoid as it either is very fuel innefficient to make just one or two dishes or is not properly cooked. Rain forest is the source of energy. For the same reasons try to either have cold showers or use places with solar panels.

    If you come to a mani wall with prayer wheels, pass on the left hand side spin the wheels and chant om mani padme hum. There are few emergency services so this is your insurance policy for a safe journey.

    Greet people by hands together as if praying, bow head and say namaste which means "I worship the God within you".

    Take lots of pictures and prints of life in the UK. Just ordinary things like roads, shops, trains, houses. Nothing over fancy as everything will be better than they have.

    Pens and pencils for the kids but refrain from sweets. There are few dentists. Toothbrushes could be a useful gift.
    Drink tea, not coffee. The water has to be boiled or the tea tastes wrong. Besides they know a lot about tea!

    Tibetan tea is disgusting but to refuse without good reason is an insult. One of the Everest team thought he had the answer; he told them that his God had spoken and he had to climb the highest mountain in the world forgoing all luxury on the way. This was accepted, the trouble was he succeeded so he was assured that his God was very pleased and allowed double rations on the way back.

    Beer is fine and the local spirit is good for killing leeches.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    snip
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Only the mountain remains? I suppose that will happen. Perhaps I should scratch the march to the sea re-enactment.

    I believe Chickamauga has stuff worth seeing.
    Kennesaw Mountain is worth a visit. They have cannons etc still in place with good signage and you can get a good sense of how the battle went.

    Oakland Cemetery in Atlanta is worth a visit too. They have a large Confederate section, not to mention Margaret Mitchell, Bobby Jones (take a golf ball to leave on his grave) and folks from the Great Locomotive Chase (immortalized in Buster Keaton's "The General"). The locomotive itself is on display in Kennesaw I believe.
    Shermans March to the Sea and subsequent march up through the Carolinas was marked by an absence of battles. The whole point was he had no lines of communications and his opponents were too weak to stand.
    Indeed even his advance to Atlanta was relatively bereft of battles as Johnson tended to withdraw to keephis army in being. Kennesaw Mountain was a rarity as Sherman tended to try to outflank Johnson.

    The main big battle of that period was between Hood and Thomas at Nashville.
    There were huge earthworks to defend Atlanta. There's nothing left of these.
    No I guess not. I suppose the town would want the memory of them and they were wasted. Atlanta must have expanded as well.
    Metro Atlanta has almost tripled in population since I first worked here. There is not much respect for the past. The only remaining trace I know is at East Lake Golf Club, where depressions on the 4th and 8th fairways (which are parallel) are apparently the remains of the Atlanta defense from the war between the states.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    Wanderer said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    Indeed. Gettyburg is about 40 minutes from here.

    Well worth a visit. I drove down a couple of times when i was there
    I must do it. I want to go on a six or eight-week holiday some time and visit all (well, many of) the Civil War battlefields. I'd like to follow Sherman's path through Georgia and the Carolinas, though I guess it would be wise not to tell the locals that's what I was doing.
    I went to Gettysburg when I was 15. Little Round Top, Devil's Den, and Pickett's Charge still loom large in my memory. It's well worth a visit. When I go to see friends (the family I stayed with when I was 15) off Long Island I regularly stop at a motel the other end of the Chambersburg Pike to break the journey, which otherwise is about 20 hours.

    Sherman's March Through Georgia - there's not much to see other than some historical markers. There's almost nothing left of the battle of Atlanta except Kennesaw Mountain.
    Are you done with the storm yet? How was it?
    Basically, light rain and wind all day. Looks like we're done. It's just cold. I suspect you won't be so lucky.

    Reminds me of that old Tommy Cooper joke - I asked the doctor if he had anything for wind and he gave me a kite.
    Looks like the worst will be to the east and south of us - more Annapolis and Baltimore than DC and Frederick. So far, about 4", but it is very light and powdery, so only about 5lb a shovel. Easy clean up so far. But the worst is to come. TV is predicting a switch to full blizzard shortly as the moisture from the ocean gets pulled onshore.
    I just let Heidi out in the back yard and noticed a dusting of snow on my BBQ. Everywhere else is just soggy and damp.
    You have Heidi Klum at your house?
    No, just Heidi the German Shepherd and prognosticating canine. She thinks I'm much better than Heidi Klum ever would ;)
    Somehow this exchange reminded me of Peter Sellers and Dudley More down the pub:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvQq_tqB0jA
    Peter Cook!!!! Pete and Dud - comedy gold.
    Yep, brain freeze. I blame the Blizzard of 2016...
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