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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The repeated Heathrow delays don’t square with Cameon’s ima

SystemSystem Posts: 12,293
edited 2015 11 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The repeated Heathrow delays don’t square with Cameon’s image about being able to take tough decisions

One of the features where Cameron generally polls very well is on the ability to take tough decisions. A couple of months ago Opinium found 40% thought saying ‘being able to take tough decisions’ best described David Cameron compared to 16% saying the same about Jeremy Corbyn.

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Comments

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,243
    edited 2015 11
    Thirst?

    Not waiting in a queue, unlike people at Heathrow ...
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    I agree with Mr. Meeks on the last thread: what's another 6 months now? A decision should have been made a long time ago (1990s, really).

    The more curious part is this: wouldn't Zac resigning his seat have actually helped him win the Mayoralty (assuming he still stood as the Tory candidate?)
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,017
    I'm far from convinced it is a bluff. I don't really see any reason why he wouldn't resign, though presumably the Conservatives would then select a different candidate for the constituency.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'This looks like a mistake. Cameron should have called Zac’s bluff.'

    No longer a good idea for Lib Dems do wish for byelections, surely...
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Yup.

    I'm far from convinced it is a bluff. I don't really see any reason why he wouldn't resign, though presumably the Conservatives would then select a different candidate for the constituency.

  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,569
    I wouldn't give Zac too much credit - surely the real issue is that Cameron couldn't get any bill on this through the Commons. What solution would he be confident of a majority on?

    He'd be relying on Labour splitting in his favour and Corbyn is making negative noises.

    But yes - the Lib Dems would be raring to go in Richmond Park, but they may get the chance next summer anyway.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,346

    I agree with Mr. Meeks on the last thread: what's another 6 months now? A decision should have been made a long time ago (1990s, really).

    The more curious part is this: wouldn't Zac resigning his seat have actually helped him win the Mayoralty (assuming he still stood as the Tory candidate?)

    This is quite a fundamental policy disagreement - should he really be the Tory candidate?
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    tlg86 said:

    I agree with Mr. Meeks on the last thread: what's another 6 months now? A decision should have been made a long time ago (1990s, really).

    The more curious part is this: wouldn't Zac resigning his seat have actually helped him win the Mayoralty (assuming he still stood as the Tory candidate?)

    This is quite a fundamental policy disagreement - should he really be the Tory candidate?
    Well he's not disagreeing with policy at present! As for being fundamental - I'd say it's substantial, not fundamental. But then the Mayor doesn't do much fundamental stuff anyway.

    Still Boris Island for me (and close & convert Heathrow when it opens). Looks like that's got about as much chance of happening as PM Corbyn.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Paul Waugh is wrong. It's not blindingly obvious that the only reason for the delay is political not environmental. There are clearly two reasons: the politics, and the risk of a successful and very time-consuming legal challenge on the air quality issue. After all, the Environmental Audit Select Committee (chaired by a Labour MP, with Labour, Conservative, Green and SNP members from a variety of different regions) has just issued a report pointing to a number of serious concerns which, it says, should be addressed before a final decision to accept the Davies Commission report is made. It's hard to see how the government could have simply dismissed this without substantially increasing the risk of legal challenge.

    http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/environmental-audit-committee/news-parliament-2015/airports-commission-report-15-16/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,831
    tpfkar said:

    I wouldn't give Zac too much credit - surely the real issue is that Cameron couldn't get any bill on this through the Commons. What solution would he be confident of a majority on?

    He'd be relying on Labour splitting in his favour and Corbyn is making negative noises.

    But yes - the Lib Dems would be raring to go in Richmond Park, but they may get the chance next summer anyway.

    Does it have to go through Commons? Is a Bill required to build a new runway?
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Not sure about calling bluff but the gist of the thread is correct, the PM has allowed people to call him a ditherer, indecisive or worse still a bottler. We all know what happened to Brown when that stuck.

    How he wishes he still had Clegg as his human shield.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    I agree with Mr. Meeks on the last thread: what's another 6 months now? A decision should have been made a long time ago (1990s, really).

    The more curious part is this: wouldn't Zac resigning his seat have actually helped him win the Mayoralty (assuming he still stood as the Tory candidate?)

    Portillo's moment of the week last night was the governments uselessness on this
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,418
    Whether Zac becomes mayor or not it looks like there will be a by election next summer.

    I can't see a UKIP gain, however.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    The GE is not until 2020.

    By 2020 the Heathrow decision will be 4 years old

    Cameron (has said) he will not be standing

    Brown's bottling was over calling a General Election

    But apart from that a perfect analogy

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    The GE is not until 2020.

    By 2020 the Heathrow decision will be 4 years old

    Cameron (has said) he will not be standing

    Brown's bottling was over calling a General Election

    But apart from that a perfect analogy

    There's also the not inconsequential point that Labour are as divided, or perhaps more divided, than the Conservatives on this, which limits the hay they can make from it.
  • LukeInLondonLukeInLondon Posts: 30
    In my experience, politicians make their worst decisions when they are trying to look "tough" or "decisive". It's become apparent that the Davies commission made some very big mistakes in their analysis. Not only do the claims that Heathrow could keep to emissions limits look incorrect, the economic case against Gatwick was based on them not reaching passenger numbers they have already reached. Given such circumstances, the questionable numbers should be reassesed and then a decision should be made based on the right numbers. Making a "tough decision" on the wrong numbers would just be mistaken.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,238

    Still Boris Island for me (and close & convert Heathrow when it opens). Looks like that's got about as much chance of happening as PM Corbyn.

    When the costs in money and time of the sticking-plaster solution of a third runway at Heathrow become so extreme, the arguments against a bolder strategic approach look less and less convincing.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33341548

    This is interesting from July
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,015
    It would seem rather odd for Goldsmith to resign as Mayor if a third runway is proposed. Surely it would be better to oppose it from City Hall. Or better still become an independent mayor.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Boris Island.

    Let's show the world we can still do engineering.

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Not sure about calling bluff but the gist of the thread is correct, the PM has allowed people to call him a ditherer, indecisive or worse still a bottler. We all know what happened to Brown when that stuck.

    How he wishes he still had Clegg as his human shield.

    I have called Cameron all that and a lot worse and nothing he has actually done has made me change my mind. Furthermore, the few times he decides to be decisive (e.g go to war with Libya) he makes the call without seeming to think through the consequences (e.g. Russia coming to the conclusion that might is right and the UN don't matter).

    Losing Clegg as his human shield has just exposed Cameron for the grubby little spiv he always has been. I am sure the reason that he retains his level of popularity is that, at heart, most of the English like a toff in charge (not that Cameron is even a real toff - his Dad was a stockbroker, for goodness sake.

    (Bit grumpy today)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,238
    edited 2015 11
    The clip of Harriet Harman at PMQs from July must be depressing for Labour supporters. She'd have been so much more effective in opposition than any of the candidates that stood for the leadership.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,569

    tpfkar said:

    I wouldn't give Zac too much credit - surely the real issue is that Cameron couldn't get any bill on this through the Commons. What solution would he be confident of a majority on?

    He'd be relying on Labour splitting in his favour and Corbyn is making negative noises.

    But yes - the Lib Dems would be raring to go in Richmond Park, but they may get the chance next summer anyway.

    Does it have to go through Commons? Is a Bill required to build a new runway?
    HS2 has needed several bills. I can't imagine leaving all the planning permissions in the hands of Hillingdon council if the goverment goes ahead. Having said that I'm no expert - can anyone confirm that a bill(s) would be needed to secure the land and construction, if the Government wants to push ahead?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    That shooting story
    Man shot dead by police and two arrested yards from court building 'as armed officers stopped gun-toting gang from trying to spring convicted car-jacker from custody'

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3355712/Police-shoot-man-intelligence-led-operation-North-London-Scotland-Yard-says.html#ixzz3u1QmsDEu
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Not sure about calling bluff but the gist of the thread is correct, the PM has allowed people to call him a ditherer, indecisive or worse still a bottler. We all know what happened to Brown when that stuck.

    How he wishes he still had Clegg as his human shield.

    I have called Cameron all that and a lot worse and nothing he has actually done has made me change my mind. Furthermore, the few times he decides to be decisive (e.g go to war with Libya) he makes the call without seeming to think through the consequences (e.g. Russia coming to the conclusion that might is right and the UN don't matter).

    Losing Clegg as his human shield has just exposed Cameron for the grubby little spiv he always has been. I am sure the reason that he retains his level of popularity is that, at heart, most of the English like a toff in charge (not that Cameron is even a real toff - his Dad was a stockbroker, for goodness sake.

    (Bit grumpy today)
    The reason he's popular with Tories is because he won the election, what he does with power is irrelevant. Look at Blair, voters loved him all the while he was winning now they despise him.

    I never make personal remarks about Cameron, which is more than can be said of his fans, I judge him by what he says and does, his type of feeble, vacuous politics is awful.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 11
    One rule for Tyson Fury, another for "cultural sensitivities"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35070984

    When I saw the talk of "Bordesley Independent School", it makes you think that the Hugo Parker-Bowles of this world are sending their kids to a knock off Eton. You have to read really carefully to find out what it is really about....

    Also registered at that school...Al-Tahawi Institute.

    On their facebook page, they hiliriously claim this...

    Please note: Al-Tahawi Institute is located at the above address only during class times. At all other times it is an Independent school.

    And this is what Ofsted said..

    "Sir Michael said more than 800 pupils were found to be in premises where there was evidence of segregation, with separate classrooms for boys and girls and where students were being taught a narrow curriculum “that was failing to prepare them for life in modern Britain”.

    Sir Michael wrote: “Following each previous visit, [inspectors] reported the serious concerns they had for the welfare of the children being educated in this unregistered school. At the most recent visit, inspectors were intentionally obstructed from entering the premises for an hour.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11986321/Hundreds-of-children-taught-in-squalid-conditions-at-illegal-schools-Ofsted-warns.html

    Of course from the BBC report, it dedicates one sentence to any hint of what is going on.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    edited 2015 11
    isam said:

    I agree with Mr. Meeks on the last thread: what's another 6 months now? A decision should have been made a long time ago (1990s, really).

    The more curious part is this: wouldn't Zac resigning his seat have actually helped him win the Mayoralty (assuming he still stood as the Tory candidate?)

    Portillo's moment of the week last night was the governments uselessness on this
    Portillo described it as a "disappointing" consequence of our democracy. Democracy does make politically difficult decisions hard to take because of their impact on electability. What seems on the surface here an easy decision is actually hellishly difficult for lots of different reasons. Were it not so the decision would have been made decades ago. Most of the reasons rehearsed on here will be in play but I agree with the majority who opine that "political" reasons are the most significant.

    Whatever Cameron decides to do will be judged by many to be wrong, so why not wait and do it whilst EUref debate is in full swing. Adonis also did his bit by saying that Cameron's further, slight delay wouldn't impact on need for project implementation, not that that will cut much ice with Labour and Jehadi Jez.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,015
    Hurstlama - not sure people want a toff in charge as such. I suspect it's the heart on sleeve family man that's sufficiently reassuring. I'm fascinated by the section of the electorate that likes Cameron but doesn't care for Osborne. How can people like one and dislike the other? Like Ant and Dec or Laurel and Hardy.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    One rule for Tyson Fury, another for "cultural sensitivities"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35070984

    When I saw the talk of "Bordesley Independent School", it makes you think that the Hugo Parker-Bowles of this world are sending their kids to a knock off Eton. You have to read really carefully to find out what it is really about....

    Also registered at that school...Al-Tahawi Institute.

    On their facebook page, they hiliriously claim this...

    Please note: Al-Tahawi Institute is located at the above address only during class times. At all other times it is an Independent school.

    And this is what Ofsted said..

    "Sir Michael said more than 800 pupils were found to be in premises where there was evidence of segregation, with separate classrooms for boys and girls and where students were being taught a narrow curriculum “that was failing to prepare them for life in modern Britain”.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11986321/Hundreds-of-children-taught-in-squalid-conditions-at-illegal-schools-Ofsted-warns.html

    "free schools"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2015 11

    One rule for Tyson Fury, another for "cultural sensitivities"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35070984

    When I saw the talk of "Bordesley Independent School", it makes you think that the Hugo Parker-Bowles of this world are sending their kids to a knock off Eton. You have to read really carefully to find out what it is really about....

    Also registered at that school...Al-Tahawi Institute.

    On their facebook page, they hiliriously claim this...

    Please note: Al-Tahawi Institute is located at the above address only during class times. At all other times it is an Independent school.

    And this is what Ofsted said..

    "Sir Michael said more than 800 pupils were found to be in premises where there was evidence of segregation, with separate classrooms for boys and girls and where students were being taught a narrow curriculum “that was failing to prepare them for life in modern Britain”.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11986321/Hundreds-of-children-taught-in-squalid-conditions-at-illegal-schools-Ofsted-warns.html

    "free schools"
    Nothing to do with free school programme. These are businesses, using a loophole to claim they are private “home study groups” or private tuition clubs, that just happen to be Madrasas.

    Again it is Birmingham, like the Trojan Horse Scandal.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Zac is not bluffing; he would rather resign than remain an MP who had failed his voters so abjectly.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    OT Nina Carberry is a very effective jockey, I'm surprised she doesn't get more rides.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302

    One rule for Tyson Fury, another for "cultural sensitivities"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35070984

    When I saw the talk of "Bordesley Independent School", it makes you think that the Hugo Parker-Bowles of this world are sending their kids to a knock off Eton. You have to read really carefully to find out what it is really about....

    Also registered at that school...Al-Tahawi Institute.

    On their facebook page, they hiliriously claim this...

    Please note: Al-Tahawi Institute is located at the above address only during class times. At all other times it is an Independent school.

    And this is what Ofsted said..

    "Sir Michael said more than 800 pupils were found to be in premises where there was evidence of segregation, with separate classrooms for boys and girls and where students were being taught a narrow curriculum “that was failing to prepare them for life in modern Britain”.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11986321/Hundreds-of-children-taught-in-squalid-conditions-at-illegal-schools-Ofsted-warns.html

    "free schools"
    Reminds me of Stop the War & Corbyn's Constituency Office office block share for some odd reason.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    The problem is that if he made a decision it would go to judicial review and he'd have a 50/50 chance of getting it kicked back by the courts for making a decision without having worked through the issues.

    That's a lot worse than delaying 6 months.

    Far better to delay (and pocket the political advantages) and do the necessary studies on environmental issues.

    And reform the ability for pressure groups to judicially review every decision the government makes.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Not sure about calling bluff but the gist of the thread is correct, the PM has allowed people to call him a ditherer, indecisive or worse still a bottler. We all know what happened to Brown when that stuck.

    How he wishes he still had Clegg as his human shield.

    I have called Cameron all that and a lot worse and nothing he has actually done has made me change my mind. Furthermore, the few times he decides to be decisive (e.g go to war with Libya) he makes the call without seeming to think through the consequences (e.g. Russia coming to the conclusion that might is right and the UN don't matter).

    Losing Clegg as his human shield has just exposed Cameron for the grubby little spiv he always has been. I am sure the reason that he retains his level of popularity is that, at heart, most of the English like a toff in charge (not that Cameron is even a real toff - his Dad was a stockbroker, for goodness sake.

    (Bit grumpy today)
    Do you have something against people working in finance?

    Some of my cousins were stockbrokers (we don't talk to that side of the family - but for entirely different reasons).
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    New Zealand flag contender chosen, as (quasi-)tipped by me at 5/4.

    Also NB the magnificent photo caption:

    Red Peak, by designer Aaron Dustin, was popular on social media but in the end came in third

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35059898

    I think that is a truly gorgeous flag and would be very easy to identify amongst a crowd of banners. I hope it wins out.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,263

    Not sure about calling bluff but the gist of the thread is correct, the PM has allowed people to call him a ditherer, indecisive or worse still a bottler. We all know what happened to Brown when that stuck.

    How he wishes he still had Clegg as his human shield.

    I have called Cameron all that and a lot worse and nothing he has actually done has made me change my mind. Furthermore, the few times he decides to be decisive (e.g go to war with Libya) he makes the call without seeming to think through the consequences (e.g. Russia coming to the conclusion that might is right and the UN don't matter).

    Losing Clegg as his human shield has just exposed Cameron for the grubby little spiv he always has been. I am sure the reason that he retains his level of popularity is that, at heart, most of the English like a toff in charge (not that Cameron is even a real toff - his Dad was a stockbroker, for goodness sake.

    (Bit grumpy today)
    The reason he's popular with Tories is because he won the election, what he does with power is irrelevant. Look at Blair, voters loved him all the while he was winning now they despise him.

    I never make personal remarks about Cameron, which is more than can be said of his fans, I judge him by what he says and does, his type of feeble, vacuous politics is awful.

    You are separating the winning of elections, the voters, and his politics.

    The voters voted for him to the extent that he won the election so as to be able to enact his policies.

    You see? In one sentence I have managed, clumsily, to link those previously disparate ideas together.

    That you don't like his policies is neither here nor there, sadly.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Nothing worse than being in 'trade' old chap
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @tpfkar

    'But yes - the Lib Dems would be raring to go in Richmond Park, but they may get the chance next summer anyway.'


    Be careful what you wish for,how long is it since the Lib Dems won a by-election ?
  • SirBenjaminSirBenjamin Posts: 238
    All the pro-Heathrow arguments (and indeed the absolutely ludicrous new-build/close Heathrow argument) are approaching the problem from the perspective of offering one convenient hub for foreigners to fly into the country, and in many cases, fly out again a couple of hours later. The business case is defined by Inbound traffic and a desire to turn London into Frankfurt.

    As a London MP and a Mayoral candidate, Zac's priority must be to deliver the greatest benefit to Londoners, and therefore any business case should be defined by outbound traffic - e.g. what airport developments will be best for us, not best for visitors. He's quite right to rail against what is contrary to his constituents interests.

    It would indeed be worrying if he /didn't/ have a different set of interests and priorities than central government. Airport choice is a big issue for an area the size of Greater London plus the home counties and shouldn't be overlooked.

    It's not a much of a muchness situation. For example, London City is very convenient for me. Gatwick isn't too bad to get too. Heathrow is a pain, and Stansted/Luton are absolute nightmares. For people living in Ealing or St Albans or Walthamstow, the picture will be different, but there is a collective need for multiple options, and few would benefit from Frankfurterisation.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,017

    One rule for Tyson Fury, another for "cultural sensitivities"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35070984

    When I saw the talk of "Bordesley Independent School", it makes you think that the Hugo Parker-Bowles of this world are sending their kids to a knock off Eton. You have to read really carefully to find out what it is really about....

    Also registered at that school...Al-Tahawi Institute.

    On their facebook page, they hiliriously claim this...

    Please note: Al-Tahawi Institute is located at the above address only during class times. At all other times it is an Independent school.

    And this is what Ofsted said..

    "Sir Michael said more than 800 pupils were found to be in premises where there was evidence of segregation, with separate classrooms for boys and girls and where students were being taught a narrow curriculum “that was failing to prepare them for life in modern Britain”.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11986321/Hundreds-of-children-taught-in-squalid-conditions-at-illegal-schools-Ofsted-warns.html

    "free schools"
    In what way is this a free school? There are, I admit, risks with free schools doing something similar (but then as Birmingham showed, there are risks of it in the LEA sector too). But this wasn't an example of either. In fact, it was an example of the inspection regime working. It'd be helpful for the rules to be extended. I'd be interested in whether the social teaching going on in madrassas is upholding British values, for example.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    All of those finalist flag designs look like labels for supermarket own-brand butter.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624

    One rule for Tyson Fury, another for "cultural sensitivities"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35070984

    When I saw the talk of "Bordesley Independent School", it makes you think that the Hugo Parker-Bowles of this world are sending their kids to a knock off Eton. You have to read really carefully to find out what it is really about....

    Also registered at that school...Al-Tahawi Institute.

    On their facebook page, they hiliriously claim this...

    Please note: Al-Tahawi Institute is located at the above address only during class times. At all other times it is an Independent school.

    And this is what Ofsted said..

    "Sir Michael said more than 800 pupils were found to be in premises where there was evidence of segregation, with separate classrooms for boys and girls and where students were being taught a narrow curriculum “that was failing to prepare them for life in modern Britain”.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11986321/Hundreds-of-children-taught-in-squalid-conditions-at-illegal-schools-Ofsted-warns.html

    "free schools"
    In what way is this a free school? There are, I admit, risks with free schools doing something similar (but then as Birmingham showed, there are risks of it in the LEA sector too). But this wasn't an example of either. In fact, it was an example of the inspection regime working. It'd be helpful for the rules to be extended. I'd be interested in whether the social teaching going on in madrassas is upholding British values, for example.
    In this particular school they found material that was Anti-Semitic and Homophobic, and children were taught in segregated rooms.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Dair said:

    New Zealand flag contender chosen, as (quasi-)tipped by me at 5/4.

    Also NB the magnificent photo caption:

    Red Peak, by designer Aaron Dustin, was popular on social media but in the end came in third

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35059898

    I think that is a truly gorgeous flag and would be very easy to identify amongst a crowd of banners. I hope it wins out.
    Still 11/4 to win. But turnout was reasonably good (over 50%) for this referendum with 82% of those voting for the two similar Lockwood designs. It's got a chance.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,569
    john_zims said:

    @tpfkar

    'But yes - the Lib Dems would be raring to go in Richmond Park, but they may get the chance next summer anyway.'


    Be careful what you wish for,how long is it since the Lib Dems won a by-election ?

    2 years, Eastleigh. Or last night, depending on your sense of perspective :)
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    The difference between Brown and Cameron is immense.. It would take experts years to work out what was/is going on in Brown's mind.. I doubt a syndrome has yet been appropriately named. Brown was completely bonkers,

    Cameron on the other hand is being politically astute and just moving a decision further down the line. He'll make the decision in the end, Brown never made a decent decision in his life unless it was the cowardly one.


  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    All of those finalist flag designs look like labels for supermarket own-brand butter.

    Yet all infinitely better than the current flag, defaced by the butcher's apron.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,238

    It's not a much of a muchness situation. For example, London City is very convenient for me. Gatwick isn't too bad to get too. Heathrow is a pain, and Stansted/Luton are absolute nightmares. For people living in Ealing or St Albans or Walthamstow, the picture will be different, but there is a collective need for multiple options, and few would benefit from Frankfurterisation.

    The purpose of getting to an airport is to get somewhere else. The convenience of London City isn't any use if you're trying to get to Johannesburg. In essence this highlights why a hub airport unarguably does benefit the local population. The through traffic provides critical mass to support destinations that otherwise wouldn't be served, and the hub status makes the city a natural host for international business looking for somewhere to base their European operations.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    The indecision is probably the right decision, IMO.

    HS2 will go direct to Birmingham airport (38 mins) and Manchester airport (1hr) - both have loads of spare capacity and expansion options.

    Best let Heathrow wither & die.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    New Zealand flag contender chosen, as (quasi-)tipped by me at 5/4.

    Also NB the magnificent photo caption:

    Red Peak, by designer Aaron Dustin, was popular on social media but in the end came in third

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35059898

    I think that is a truly gorgeous flag and would be very easy to identify amongst a crowd of banners. I hope it wins out.
    Still 11/4 to win. But turnout was reasonably good (over 50%) for this referendum with 82% of those voting for the two similar Lockwood designs. It's got a chance.
    They should push the vote back to June or July and reduce the number of fogies voting against the future.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Not sure about calling bluff but the gist of the thread is correct, the PM has allowed people to call him a ditherer, indecisive or worse still a bottler. We all know what happened to Brown when that stuck.

    How he wishes he still had Clegg as his human shield.

    Lol - Blackburn in anti Cameron post shocker.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @SirBenjamin


    'As a London MP and a Mayoral candidate, Zac's priority must be to deliver the greatest benefit to Londoners, and therefore any business case should be defined by outbound traffic - e.g. what airport developments will be best for us, not best for visitors. He's quite right to rail against what is contrary to his constituents interests.'


    Agree, any decision to go ahead with Heathrow should be subject to a referendum of Greater London voters who will be affected in different ways.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Not sure about calling bluff but the gist of the thread is correct, the PM has allowed people to call him a ditherer, indecisive or worse still a bottler. We all know what happened to Brown when that stuck.

    How he wishes he still had Clegg as his human shield.

    I have called Cameron all that and a lot worse and nothing he has actually done has made me change my mind. Furthermore, the few times he decides to be decisive (e.g go to war with Libya) he makes the call without seeming to think through the consequences (e.g. Russia coming to the conclusion that might is right and the UN don't matter).

    Losing Clegg as his human shield has just exposed Cameron for the grubby little spiv he always has been. I am sure the reason that he retains his level of popularity is that, at heart, most of the English like a toff in charge (not that Cameron is even a real toff - his Dad was a stockbroker, for goodness sake.

    (Bit grumpy today)
    The reason he's popular with Tories is because he won the election, what he does with power is irrelevant. Look at Blair, voters loved him all the while he was winning now they despise him.

    I never make personal remarks about Cameron, which is more than can be said of his fans, I judge him by what he says and does, his type of feeble, vacuous politics is awful.

    And on and on he goes....
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited 2015 11
    @tpfkar

    '2 years, Eastleigh. Or last night, depending on your sense of perspective'


    And before Eastleigh which was defending your existing seat ?
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439
    john_zims said:

    @SirBenjamin


    'As a London MP and a Mayoral candidate, Zac's priority must be to deliver the greatest benefit to Londoners, and therefore any business case should be defined by outbound traffic - e.g. what airport developments will be best for us, not best for visitors. He's quite right to rail against what is contrary to his constituents interests.'


    Agree, any decision to go ahead with Heathrow should be subject to a referendum of Greater London voters who will be affected in different ways.

    If voters got a say in every major infrastructure project (particularly those that were geographically close to it) that was designed to address the greater good, rather than solving local problems, nothing would ever get done.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    "There’s a danger, as Gordon Brown found,"

    Bogus analogy – Brown bottled a general election he may have won and thus legitimised being PM, - Cameron on the other hand has already won two and will not stand for a third.

    FPT, Mr Meeks gave a far more plausible reason for the postponement.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    Dair said:

    All of those finalist flag designs look like labels for supermarket own-brand butter.

    Yet all infinitely better than the current flag, defaced by the butcher's apron.
    Butcher's Apron...cost an SNP guy his job in 2008.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-aide-quits-in-row-over-press-release-attacking-the-union-flag-1-689192
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    FPT: Mr. Slade, I believe there will be a second series.

    Whilst the Conservatives face a leader who writes letters of support for someone alleged to have defrauded pensioners of their savings which may have been used to fund terrorism, the Conservatives won't get hit hard by something like this.

    As we've seen so far with the bullying story. If Labour didn't have people like Ken 'the 7/7 bombers are absolved of responsibility because of Blair' Livingstone, Mao and Corbyn at the top, that could've massively hit the blues. Instead it's a sideshow to the nonsense of Labour.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    "This looks like a mistake. Cameron should have called Zac’s bluff."

    Zac is not bluffing.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @DearPB

    'If voters got a say in every major infrastructure project (particularly those that were geographically close to it) that was designed to address the greater good, rather than solving local problems, nothing would ever get done.'


    How often are 8 million voters affected by noise, pollution and massive congestion due to a single infrastructure project ?


    By the way, 'the greater good' of whom ,overseas visitors ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,243
    DearPB said:

    john_zims said:

    @SirBenjamin


    'As a London MP and a Mayoral candidate, Zac's priority must be to deliver the greatest benefit to Londoners, and therefore any business case should be defined by outbound traffic - e.g. what airport developments will be best for us, not best for visitors. He's quite right to rail against what is contrary to his constituents interests.'


    Agree, any decision to go ahead with Heathrow should be subject to a referendum of Greater London voters who will be affected in different ways.

    If voters got a say in every major infrastructure project (particularly those that were geographically close to it) that was designed to address the greater good, rather than solving local problems, nothing would ever get done.
    That's precisely why I'd be in interested in altering the Development Consent Order process to have a national referendum on the biggest schemes. There are downsides, though.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    That shooting story

    Man shot dead by police and two arrested yards from court building 'as armed officers stopped gun-toting gang from trying to spring convicted car-jacker from custody'

    Still baffled as to why the BBC are being so coy about this event - they still have the same fact free story on their home page.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited 2015 11
    There's always been lots of talk about Goldsmith "resigning his seat" if a 3rd runway is approved, but has he ever confirmed what he would do in the ensuing by-election?

    Presumably stand as an independent on an anti-3rdrunway ticket?
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439

    DearPB said:

    john_zims said:

    @SirBenjamin


    'As a London MP and a Mayoral candidate, Zac's priority must be to deliver the greatest benefit to Londoners, and therefore any business case should be defined by outbound traffic - e.g. what airport developments will be best for us, not best for visitors. He's quite right to rail against what is contrary to his constituents interests.'


    Agree, any decision to go ahead with Heathrow should be subject to a referendum of Greater London voters who will be affected in different ways.

    If voters got a say in every major infrastructure project (particularly those that were geographically close to it) that was designed to address the greater good, rather than solving local problems, nothing would ever get done.
    That's precisely why I'd be in interested in altering the Development Consent Order process to have a national referendum on the biggest schemes. There are downsides, though.
    I believe in representative government (old-fashioned of me I know) - we elect people to make these decisions on our behalf.

    I should point out that there was no value judgement placed on my observation - I'd vote no to pretty much everything I reckon. They're going to build a by-pass round my village meaning that instead of on a busy main road I'll live in a quiet conservation area hamlet - but I'm very suspicious about that and I'd vote no given the chance!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    All of those finalist flag designs look like labels for supermarket own-brand butter.

    I don't know what you mean...

    image
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Oh we all campaigned like buggery to get our local bypass to avoid Polegate. It made a huge difference for the better on the whole.
    DearPB said:

    DearPB said:

    john_zims said:

    @SirBenjamin


    'As a London MP and a Mayoral candidate, Zac's priority must be to deliver the greatest benefit to Londoners, and therefore any business case should be defined by outbound traffic - e.g. what airport developments will be best for us, not best for visitors. He's quite right to rail against what is contrary to his constituents interests.'


    Agree, any decision to go ahead with Heathrow should be subject to a referendum of Greater London voters who will be affected in different ways.

    If voters got a say in every major infrastructure project (particularly those that were geographically close to it) that was designed to address the greater good, rather than solving local problems, nothing would ever get done.
    That's precisely why I'd be in interested in altering the Development Consent Order process to have a national referendum on the biggest schemes. There are downsides, though.
    I believe in representative government (old-fashioned of me I know) - we elect people to make these decisions on our behalf.

    I should point out that there was no value judgement placed on my observation - I'd vote no to pretty much everything I reckon. They're going to build a by-pass round my village meaning that instead of on a busy main road I'll live in a quiet conservation area hamlet - but I'm very suspicious about that and I'd vote no given the chance!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,137
    Mr. Meeks, that do look rubbish. I hope the Kiwis keep their current flag.
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439
    Scott_P said:

    All of those finalist flag designs look like labels for supermarket own-brand butter.

    I don't know what you mean...

    image
    I'd love it if that company sued and sonehow New Zealand had to be renamed KiwiPartyWareLand
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,415
    Alternatively, Dave could just phone Nicola, see if there's a couple of miles long strip of unused tarmac he could borrow....
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,368

    Here's a solution to the Heathrow debacle ...

    Move Government offices to Brum and Manchester. Relocate as much of the financial sector as possible too - with grants. Mean what Osbo says.

    Expand Manchester airport and Brum.

    Allow London to declare independence.

    Job done.
  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    DearPB said:

    DearPB said:

    john_zims said:

    @SirBenjamin


    'As a London MP and a Mayoral candidate, Zac's priority must be to deliver the greatest benefit to Londoners, and therefore any business case should be defined by outbound traffic - e.g. what airport developments will be best for us, not best for visitors. He's quite right to rail against what is contrary to his constituents interests.'


    Agree, any decision to go ahead with Heathrow should be subject to a referendum of Greater London voters who will be affected in different ways.

    If voters got a say in every major infrastructure project (particularly those that were geographically close to it) that was designed to address the greater good, rather than solving local problems, nothing would ever get done.
    That's precisely why I'd be in interested in altering the Development Consent Order process to have a national referendum on the biggest schemes. There are downsides, though.
    I believe in representative government (old-fashioned of me I know) - we elect people to make these decisions on our behalf.

    I should point out that there was no value judgement placed on my observation - I'd vote no to pretty much everything I reckon. They're going to build a by-pass round my village meaning that instead of on a busy main road I'll live in a quiet conservation area hamlet - but I'm very suspicious about that and I'd vote no given the chance!
    If everyone acted like that, we would never had railways or cars because we would have no roads..or planes as no airfields...As for schools.. pah can't teach peasants..
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Via John Rentoul:

    Leo Barasi ‏@leobarasi · 2h2 hours ago
    3 months since Corbyn took office, Labour's poll score unchanged. Here's the comparison with past leaders.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CV8q-PUUwAIrryv.png
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,598

    Paul Waugh is wrong. It's not blindingly obvious that the only reason for the delay is political not environmental. There are clearly two reasons: the politics, and the risk of a successful and very time-consuming legal challenge on the air quality issue. After all, the Environmental Audit Select Committee (chaired by a Labour MP, with Labour, Conservative, Green and SNP members from a variety of different regions) has just issued a report pointing to a number of serious concerns which, it says, should be addressed before a final decision to accept the Davies Commission report is made. It's hard to see how the government could have simply dismissed this without substantially increasing the risk of legal challenge.

    http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/environmental-audit-committee/news-parliament-2015/airports-commission-report-15-16/

    Can't fault Richard N for loyally plugging away, but this doesn't really explain why a decision was promised before Christmas. The awesome power of the EnAudit SC is not really manifest - I sat on four SCs and it never struck any of them that our thoughts had legal force.

    Qiute an interesting account from the inside of the Oldham West by-election:

    http://labourlist.org/2015/12/how-the-oldham-west-was-won/
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Personally I think Cameron has made the correct decision..knowing full well that Cameron Haters would call him gutless etc.. It is right and proper to get the full environmental impact assessment..and the delay is only a few months..it has taken over 30 years to get this far.. another 20 or so weeks will make no difference at all... A brave decision.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    It've just done some more scieitific polling on the impact of the Forth Road Bridge on the SNP (I asked a work colleague who lives in Fife and works in Ediburgh)

    I asked if the Forth Road Bridge situation made him more or less likely to vote SNP in 2016 and he offered "no effect". His reasoning being that while the fucked up the maintenance they were building a second bridge.

    Combined with my earlier research 7/1 on NOM looks like a mug punt.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842
    When there is no credible opposition this is the kind of thing that happens.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    When there is no credible opposition this is the kind of thing that happens.

    While I take your general point, both major parties have been indecisive - we could have started [insert-generic-south-east-airport-expansion] decades ago. Cameron is heir to a long line of can kickers.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Paul Waugh is wrong. It's not blindingly obvious that the only reason for the delay is political not environmental. There are clearly two reasons: the politics, and the risk of a successful and very time-consuming legal challenge on the air quality issue. After all, the Environmental Audit Select Committee (chaired by a Labour MP, with Labour, Conservative, Green and SNP members from a variety of different regions) has just issued a report pointing to a number of serious concerns which, it says, should be addressed before a final decision to accept the Davies Commission report is made. It's hard to see how the government could have simply dismissed this without substantially increasing the risk of legal challenge.

    http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/environmental-audit-committee/news-parliament-2015/airports-commission-report-15-16/

    Can't fault Richard N for loyally plugging away, but this doesn't really explain why a decision was promised before Christmas. The awesome power of the EnAudit SC is not really manifest - I sat on four SCs and it never struck any of them that our thoughts had legal force.

    Qiute an interesting account from the inside of the Oldham West by-election:

    http://labourlist.org/2015/12/how-the-oldham-west-was-won/
    They don't have legal force.

    But they will be cited as evidence by the Heathrow protestors who have already threatened to sue
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842

    Thirst?

    Not waiting in a queue, unlike people at Heathrow ...

    Terminal 5 is a triumph on that front. Very few queue ever. And now they have the electronic entry points installed it is much quicker getting back in.

    Living in the West Midlands, Heathrow is by far the best option for expansion. It is much easier to get to and from than any of the other current airports. Local residents will just have to take one for the team.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    Mr. Meeks, that do look rubbish. I hope the Kiwis keep their current flag.

    I like some of the designs, but the process is a stitch up, as there's no indication they want to change the flag, but are being asked what new design they like first, then if they want to change to it.
    John_M said:

    When there is no credible opposition this is the kind of thing that happens.

    While I take your general point, both major parties have been indecisive - we could have started [insert-generic-south-east-airport-expansion] decades ago. Cameron is heir to a long line of can kickers.
    Indeed, a fine addition to the bunch apaprently. Either not taking the decision for political reasons, or they think they cannot without risking losing in court, in which case incompetence of their own or that of the commission he set up specifically to prepare and which he cannot therefore shirk responsibility for.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    Personally I think Cameron has made the correct decision..knowing full well that Cameron Haters would call him gutless etc.. It is right and proper to get the full environmental impact assessment..and the delay is only a few months..it has taken over 30 years to get this far.. another 20 or so weeks will make no difference at all... A brave decision.

    I like Cameron - I wanted him to be PM in 2010 and 2015 - and I still call it gutless, so it's not as easy as thinking it's just the usual haters.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    Can't fault Richard N for loyally plugging away, but this doesn't really explain why a decision was promised before Christmas. The awesome power of the EnAudit SC is not really manifest - I sat on four SCs and it never struck any of them that our thoughts had legal force.

    They don't have legal force, but for something like this the government has to dot every i and cross every t, otherwise the delay will be even longer.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    When there is no credible opposition this is the kind of thing that happens.

    The same thing could be said for Merkel's migration policy.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited 2015 11
    Somebody on a previous thread - might have been @TissuePrice - observed that boxing yourself in can be a negotiating tactic. Isn't that what Zac has done here. He's made it so that if a decision for Heathrow is announced now he has to resign or lose all credibility (and the mayoralty with it). That being so, it's not a question of calling his bluff. His cards are face-up. Heathrow=Zac-flounce.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Further to Heathrow, what I don't see is why (in March) the coalition government ruled out the HS2 link to Heathrow:.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-31814933
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Charles said:

    Not sure about calling bluff but the gist of the thread is correct, the PM has allowed people to call him a ditherer, indecisive or worse still a bottler. We all know what happened to Brown when that stuck.

    How he wishes he still had Clegg as his human shield.

    I have called Cameron all that and a lot worse and nothing he has actually done has made me change my mind. Furthermore, the few times he decides to be decisive (e.g go to war with Libya) he makes the call without seeming to think through the consequences (e.g. Russia coming to the conclusion that might is right and the UN don't matter).

    Losing Clegg as his human shield has just exposed Cameron for the grubby little spiv he always has been. I am sure the reason that he retains his level of popularity is that, at heart, most of the English like a toff in charge (not that Cameron is even a real toff - his Dad was a stockbroker, for goodness sake.

    (Bit grumpy today)
    Do you have something against people working in finance?

    Some of my cousins were stockbrokers (we don't talk to that side of the family - but for entirely different reasons).
    Really, Mr. Charles! Of course I don't have anything against people working in finance, I know some jolly nice people who made their money in that sphere, not to mention having made a few quid myself out of the City.

    The point I was trying to make about Cameron is that his dad was a stockbroker and stockbrokers, even rich and successful ones, were not de facto toffs. Might I suggest that, when you boil it down, the reason you don't talk to the side of your family that were stockbrokers is that the nice side of the family don't like spivs.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    ..the nice side of the family ...

    That's the money-lenders, right?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    DearPB said:

    john_zims said:

    @SirBenjamin


    'As a London MP and a Mayoral candidate, Zac's priority must be to deliver the greatest benefit to Londoners, and therefore any business case should be defined by outbound traffic - e.g. what airport developments will be best for us, not best for visitors. He's quite right to rail against what is contrary to his constituents interests.'


    Agree, any decision to go ahead with Heathrow should be subject to a referendum of Greater London voters who will be affected in different ways.

    If voters got a say in every major infrastructure project (particularly those that were geographically close to it) that was designed to address the greater good, rather than solving local problems, nothing would ever get done.
    Perfectly true old man, However in the case of major airport projects, all British governments, whatever their political hue, have been dodging this issue for decades. I've always thought that an estury airport of 4 runways was the way to go. And this, long before Boris espoused his plan/s.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,243


    Really, Mr. Charles! Of course I don't have anything against people working in finance, I know some jolly nice people who made their money in that sphere, not to mention having made a few quid myself out of the City.

    The point I was trying to make about Cameron is that his dad was a stockbroker and stockbrokers, even rich and successful ones, were not de facto toffs. Might I suggest that, when you boil it down, the reason you don't talk to the side of your family that were stockbrokers is that the nice side of the family don't like spivs.

    Mr Llama,

    leaving aside your temporary grumpiness (as shown by your uncharacteristic comments about Cameron), I just thought I'd say I've been having a play with Elite Horizons, which is (sort of) working for me after Beta-4.

    And it's fun. Really fun. It's another dimension to the game.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,598

    Thirst?

    Not waiting in a queue, unlike people at Heathrow ...

    Terminal 5 is a triumph on that front. Very few queue ever. And now they have the electronic entry points installed it is much quicker getting back in.

    Living in the West Midlands, Heathrow is by far the best option for expansion. It is much easier to get to and from than any of the other current airports. Local residents will just have to take one for the team.

    I think it's a strong point that for most people in Britain, Heathrow is significantly easier to get to than Gatwick (though City, Stansted and Luton are too).

    Passport control is a doddle for UK citizens now, though an American friend took an hour to get through and was asked all kinds of inquisitive questions about the purpose of her holiday (it's a holiday, duh): a driver waiting with me at the exit said this was now standard for US visitors. Odd - are we practicing for keeping Mr Trump out? By contrast, Russian passport control, which I remember as a nightmare a couple of years ago, was over in a flash this time.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Not sure about calling bluff but the gist of the thread is correct, the PM has allowed people to call him a ditherer, indecisive or worse still a bottler. We all know what happened to Brown when that stuck.

    How he wishes he still had Clegg as his human shield.

    I have called Cameron all that and a lot worse and nothing he has actually done has made me change my mind. Furthermore, the few times he decides to be decisive (e.g go to war with Libya) he makes the call without seeming to think through the consequences (e.g. Russia coming to the conclusion that might is right and the UN don't matter).

    Losing Clegg as his human shield has just exposed Cameron for the grubby little spiv he always has been. I am sure the reason that he retains his level of popularity is that, at heart, most of the English like a toff in charge (not that Cameron is even a real toff - his Dad was a stockbroker, for goodness sake.

    (Bit grumpy today)
    Do you have something against people working in finance?

    Some of my cousins were stockbrokers (we don't talk to that side of the family - but for entirely different reasons).
    Really, Mr. Charles! Of course I don't have anything against people working in finance, I know some jolly nice people who made their money in that sphere, not to mention having made a few quid myself out of the City.

    The point I was trying to make about Cameron is that his dad was a stockbroker and stockbrokers, even rich and successful ones, were not de facto toffs. Might I suggest that, when you boil it down, the reason you don't talk to the side of your family that were stockbrokers is that the nice side of the family don't like spivs.
    Actually, it was because we subsidised their loss-making brewery for 40 years and then, when we said "enough is enough" they thought we were behaving unreasonably in not giving them enough time to turn the business around!

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Lion-Brewery-Victoria-Hutchings/dp/0954127595
  • Steven_WhaleySteven_Whaley Posts: 313

    I'm fascinated by the section of the electorate that likes Cameron but doesn't care for Osborne. How can people like one and dislike the other? Like Ant and Dec or Laurel and Hardy.

    To me, at least, Cameron always comes across as likeable even if he's doing things I disagree with - and always Osborne comes across as a boo/hiss panto villain even when he's doing things I approve of.

  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Russian passport control, which I remember as a nightmare a couple of years ago, was over in a flash this time.

    Did you have a letter of transit from Jezza?

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Wanderer said:

    Russian passport control, which I remember as a nightmare a couple of years ago, was over in a flash this time.

    Did you have a letter of transit from Jezza?

    Lovelyboy1983 had tipped them off of his arrival.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Cameron is a Gryffindor - Osborne is a Slytherin.

    I'm fascinated by the section of the electorate that likes Cameron but doesn't care for Osborne. How can people like one and dislike the other? Like Ant and Dec or Laurel and Hardy.

    To me, at least, Cameron always comes across as likeable even if he's doing things I disagree with - and always Osborne comes across as a boo/hiss panto villain even when he's doing things I approve of.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    ..the nice side of the family ...

    That's the money-lenders, right?
    Liquidity providers sounds so much nicer

    :)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,396
    john_zims said:

    @tpfkar

    '2 years, Eastleigh. Or last night, depending on your sense of perspective'

    And before Eastleigh which was defending your existing seat ?

    Dunfermline & West Fife, Feb 2006. LibDem gain from Labour on a 16% swing. This year, the LibDem candidate came 4th on 4% in the constituency.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    ..the nice side of the family ...

    That's the money-lenders, right?
    Crikey, Mr. Nabavi, you will be dragging out Shylock and sundry such characters and stereotypes next. Go the whole hog and talk about the Jews while you are at it. Money-lenders, forsooth!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    The GE is not until 2020.

    By 2020 the Heathrow decision will be 4 years old

    Cameron (has said) he will not be standing

    Brown's bottling was over calling a General Election

    But apart from that a perfect analogy

    Bottler Dave - the London elections are just 5 months away...
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited 2015 11

    Cameron is a Gryffindor - Osborne is a Slytherin.

    I'm fascinated by the section of the electorate that likes Cameron but doesn't care for Osborne. How can people like one and dislike the other? Like Ant and Dec or Laurel and Hardy.

    To me, at least, Cameron always comes across as likeable even if he's doing things I disagree with - and always Osborne comes across as a boo/hiss panto villain even when he's doing things I approve of.

    Sorry you are wrong there, Plato. Osborne is all Hufflepuff. ;)
This discussion has been closed.