'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
I am afraid to say the sun has sunk to a new low. Gross misrepresentation at a time of great sensitivity and also again something which brings great discredit on opinion polls.
The comments below this article by Chris Elliott are absolutely fascinating, and I would say required reading for people who want to know where we are in the debate about islam and islamism.
It seems readers of left wing newspapers are far more unhappy with the way these events were reported by their paper of choice than readers of right wing ones. The comment pieces, in particular, are being sent down in flames.
Whatever you think of what the Sun has done, it isn;t leading the debate here.
'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
Oh they just "sympathised" with murdering people for drawing a cartoon. That's alright then.
I agree with this piece. On the other hand, when questionable methodology was used in a question which delivered a very low level of support for the tax credit cuts, the piece on that was simply reporting the low figure, not the questionable method.
Mr. Eagles, it's true Mr. Zims' was not accurate in that claim, but 27% having sympathy for the motives of mass murderers is still not great.
Sympathy doesn't equal support.
Almost all Muslims living in Britain feel a loyalty to the country (95%), Nine in ten (93%) British Muslims believe that Muslims in Britain should always obey British laws.
Mr Cameron's plan to improve equipment and resources includes:
• Two "strike brigades" of 5,000 soldiers which can be deployed immediately to fight terrorists and others threatening the country. The new strike brigades will be able to respond to international threats to Britain miles away at short notice, with enough support to "sustain themselves in the field" and operate independently.
• £178bn buying and maintaining equipment over next decade
• Two new strike brigades with forces of up to 5,000 personnel
• Two additional Typhoon squadrons and one F35 combat squadron
• Nine new maritime patrol aircraft to be based in Scotland to protect nuclear deterrent and enhance maritime search and rescue
• Design and build light and flexible frigates and destroyers
The government will increase counter-terrorism funding by a third to £15 billion, with new investments in detecting "high risk" passengers and new border security measures to tackle weapons smuggling.
Measures announced include:
• £2.5bn investment
• 1,900 additional counter-terrorism staff
• Aviation security funding doubled
• Contingency plan to deal with terrorist attacks in place
• New surveillance drones to be launched to "observe our adversaries for weeks on end"
'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
Wow 11% is worrying, I'd guess most of them would be male, either way it means tens of thousands living here believe if you draw a cartoon of Mohammed you deserve what's coming to you.
I agree with this piece. On the other hand, when questionable methodology was used in a question which delivered a very low level of support for the tax credit cuts, the piece on that was simply reporting the low figure, not the questionable method.
Mr. Eagles, it's true Mr. Zims' was not accurate in that claim, but 27% having sympathy for the motives of mass murderers is still not great.
Sympathy doesn't equal support.
Almost all Muslims living in Britain feel a loyalty to the country (95%), Nine in ten (93%) British Muslims believe that Muslims in Britain should always obey British laws.
'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
Oh they just "sympathised" with murdering people for drawing a cartoon. That's alright then.
No they did not. They did not sympathise with the action (well 85% of them certainly didn't given the above response).
There is a difference between being a person who feels offended & being a person who feels offended who then acts on that offence.
Mr. Eagles, you're not concerned at all by sympathy for men who committed murder for the sake of a cartoon?
I wonder how the idea of having sympathy for say people killing Muslims in the wake of the Rotherham abuse scandal would be treated. I imagine they'd be none of this excuse making and hand wringing.
I agree with this piece. On the other hand, when questionable methodology was used in a question which delivered a very low level of support for the tax credit cuts, the piece on that was simply reporting the low figure, not the questionable method.
Mr. Eagles, it's true Mr. Zims' was not accurate in that claim, but 27% having sympathy for the motives of mass murderers is still not great.
Sympathy doesn't equal support.
Almost all Muslims living in Britain feel a loyalty to the country (95%), Nine in ten (93%) British Muslims believe that Muslims in Britain should always obey British laws.
I agree with this piece. On the other hand, when questionable methodology was used in a question which delivered a very low level of support for the tax credit cuts, the piece on that was simply reporting the low figure, not the questionable method.
Mr. Eagles, it's true Mr. Zims' was not accurate in that claim, but 27% having sympathy for the motives of mass murderers is still not great.
Sympathy doesn't equal support.
Almost all Muslims living in Britain feel a loyalty to the country (95%), Nine in ten (93%) British Muslims believe that Muslims in Britain should always obey British laws.
And the other 7%?
6% disagreed, 1% DK/Refused
6% is a lot of people
As pointed down below, it is similar to the number of Non Muslims who expressed similar viewpoints
I agree with this piece. On the other hand, when questionable methodology was used in a question which delivered a very low level of support for the tax credit cuts, the piece on that was simply reporting the low figure, not the questionable method.
Mr. Eagles, it's true Mr. Zims' was not accurate in that claim, but 27% having sympathy for the motives of mass murderers is still not great.
Sympathy doesn't equal support.
Almost all Muslims living in Britain feel a loyalty to the country (95%), Nine in ten (93%) British Muslims believe that Muslims in Britain should always obey British laws.
And the other 7%?
6% disagreed, 1% DK/Refused
6% is a lot of people
Are you a secret Lib Dem?
Haven't voted LibDem since the 2008 London Assembly election
'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
Wow 11% is worrying, I'd guess most of them would be male, either way it means tens of thousands living here believe if you draw a cartoon of Mohammed you deserve what's coming to you.
No, split evenly between men and women. Older generation (45+) more likely to agree.
'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
Oh they just "sympathised" with murdering people for drawing a cartoon. That's alright then.
No they did not. They did not sympathise with the action (well 85% of them certainly didn't given the above response).
There is a difference between being a person who feels offended & being a person who feels offended who then acts on that offence.
Do me a favour.
No decent person would have sympathy for any motives after innocent people have been machined gunned to death.
'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
Wow 11% is worrying, I'd guess most of them would be male, either way it means tens of thousands living here believe if you draw a cartoon of Mohammed you deserve what's coming to you.
No, split evenly between men and women. Older generation (45+) more likely to agree.
That really surprises me, I 'd assumed (wrongly) it was the angry young men.
'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
Wow 11% is worrying, I'd guess most of them would be male, either way it means tens of thousands living here believe if you draw a cartoon of Mohammed you deserve what's coming to you.
No, split evenly between men and women. Older generation (45+) more likely to agree.
That really surprises me, I 'd assumed (wrongly) it was the angry young men.
How about a bit of common sense ?.the number of so called Sympathisers is greater than what is in the Poll as those folks are just the ones who actually admit it ..there are bound to be many others with enough sense or discretion not to admit to it !
And the rest of the Muslim population seem merely indifferent .! Well I mean , Islam is a primal , atavistic, quasi Medieval cult ...just how can fickle liberal democracy possibly compete against that ?.it's the timeless craving for meaning and purpose ; the desire to avoid existential despair and soul death
The loyalty of Muslims is to Islam , not to their host nation and definitely not to so called Western Democracy
Where are the ''Million Muslim March '' to protest against those who have supposedly hijacked Islam ?.....where are the outraged Muslin folk holding up signs saying ''Not in our name '' ?
Don't hold your breath waiting for the outraged Muslims to show their loyalty to their host nations
'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
Oh they just "sympathised" with murdering people for drawing a cartoon. That's alright then.
No they did not. They did not sympathise with the action (well 85% of them certainly didn't given the above response).
There is a difference between being a person who feels offended & being a person who feels offended who then acts on that offence.
Do me a favour.
No decent person would have sympathy for any motives after innocent people have been machined gunned to death.
I oppose the death penalty but I can sympathise with the motives of a father who had his infant daughter murdered demanding the death penalty for the person convicted.
'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
Oh they just "sympathised" with murdering people for drawing a cartoon. That's alright then.
No they did not. They did not sympathise with the action (well 85% of them certainly didn't given the above response).
There is a difference between being a person who feels offended & being a person who feels offended who then acts on that offence.
Do me a favour.
No decent person would have sympathy for any motives after innocent people have been machined gunned to death.
I oppose the death penalty but I can sympathise with the motives of a father who had his infant daughter murdered demanding the death penalty for the person convicted.
Which is why I explicitly stated innocent people to avoid this sort of excuse making.
'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
Oh they just "sympathised" with murdering people for drawing a cartoon. That's alright then.
No they did not. They did not sympathise with the action (well 85% of them certainly didn't given the above response).
There is a difference between being a person who feels offended & being a person who feels offended who then acts on that offence.
Do me a favour.
No decent person would have sympathy for any motives after innocent people have been machined gunned to death.
I oppose the death penalty but I can sympathise with the motives of a father who had his infant daughter murdered demanding the death penalty for the person convicted.
A 15 year old girl was found in a field last week, she'd been raped and murdered, I'm very happy for the perpetrator to be executed.
'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
Oh they just "sympathised" with murdering people for drawing a cartoon. That's alright then.
No they did not. They did not sympathise with the action (well 85% of them certainly didn't given the above response).
There is a difference between being a person who feels offended & being a person who feels offended who then acts on that offence.
Do me a favour.
No decent person would have sympathy for any motives after innocent people have been machined gunned to death.
I oppose the death penalty but I can sympathise with the motives of a father who had his infant daughter murdered demanding the death penalty for the person convicted.
Thay isn't really the same. He is demanding the death penalty as justice for his daughter. Whereas the terrorists are murdering innocent people.
How about a bit of common sense ?.the number of so called Sympathisers is greater than what is in the Poll as those folks are just the ones who actually admit it ..there are bound to be many others with enough sense or discretion not to admit to it !
And the rest of the Muslim population seem merely indifferent .! Well I mean , Islam is a primal , atavistic, quasi Medieval cult ...just how can fickle liberal democracy possibly compete against that ?.it's the timeless craving for meaning and purpose ; the desire to avoid existential despair and soul death
The loyalty of Muslims is to Islam , not to their host nation and definitely not to so called Western Democracy
Where are the ''Million Muslim March '' to protest against those who have supposedly hijacked Islam ?.....where are the outraged Muslin folk holding up signs saying ''Not in our name '' ?
Don't hold your breath waiting for the outraged Muslims to show their loyalty to their host nations
Which is why I explicitly stated innocent people to avoid this sort of excuse making.
The question asked wasn't "Were the Charlie Hebdo murders morally justified?". the question wasn't "Do you support the Charlie Hebdo murderers?"
The question was designed to generate a headline due to how easy it was to mis-report it. It is an incredibly nuanced question which reduced through the black-and-white lens of the media leads to ludicrous headlines.
Labour need a new leader. It's not good for democracy when the PM need only quote the Leader of the Opposition's most recent madness to crush him in the Commons.
At least Miliband was daft, rather than totally crazy.
Mr. Alistair, that's not the same thing as drawing a cartoon, though...
Off topics, the slicing back of orders for the Type 26s is a bit of a disappointment and the RAF still looks to me like it's 2-3 squadrons short but, otherwise, this defence review seems to me to be as good as anything that could have been expected:
I'm not putting a 'Turkish spin' on things. I'm putting my viewpoint which is very different from Turkey's and Erdogan's. You seem incapable of noticing, but I criticise them when they do bad things, and congratulate them when they do things well (e.g. they way they have handled refugees for four years now). I consistently try to make the point to readers on here that their position in the world makes them a critical player in these events.
Likewise for the Kurds: I express sympathy with their position, whilst condemning the violent actions of the PKK. Yet they also have a major role in events that should not be forgotten by fans of Assad's murderous regime.
If you don't want Turkey to be our friend, fair enough. Hopefully the government will not make the mistake of withdrawing a hand of friendship, carefully given, and push Turkey further away from the west's interests (and, I would argue, the interests of most of its population).
As for saying I've a 'neo-Ottoman / Islamist spin'; if you're that stupid then perhaps you ought to retire to playgroundmatchsticksbetting.com.
'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
Oh they just "sympathised" with murdering people for drawing a cartoon. That's alright then.
No they did not. They did not sympathise with the action (well 85% of them certainly didn't given the above response).
There is a difference between being a person who feels offended & being a person who feels offended who then acts on that offence.
What is worrying is that several people on here who claim to be intelligent and who profess a knowledge of how to interpret polls are defending the actions of the Sun and this particular poll. I will take all future comments and in particular about the us polls with a pinch of salt..
Labour need a new leader. It's not good for democracy when the PM need only quote the Leader of the Opposition's most recent madness to crush him in the Commons.
At least Miliband was daft, rather than totally crazy.
Mr. Alistair, that's not the same thing as drawing a cartoon, though...
PM: We will invest more than £178 billion in buying and maintaining equipment over the next decade #SDSR2015
The problem now is in staffing in the RAF and Navy to actually crew all this kit. They look 1,000-2,000 sailors and aircrew short to me.
Mind you, the Defence establishment has not been known for manning efficiency in the past so who knows.. Otherwise perhaps this is something to review in SDR2020 as the carriers actually start to come online.
Miss Cyclefree, didn't see Corbyn's apparently prolonged ramble.
Cameron pointed out that the Shadow Chancellor wanted to disband MI5, and Corbyn's on the record saying it'd be wonderful (or words to that effect) if, like Costa Rica, we could abolish the armed forces.
There was more, but that was the most important bit.
I'd be interested to see the outrage on here if a given % of white people said muslims were fair game.
And before the bedwetters start screaming its not what I'm proposing, I'm simply interested in consistency and comparison.
I expect you would find the English Defence League would agree " muslims were fair game." That's an estimated 30 to 50k members.. so about .001% of the UK population vs 5+ % of the UK muslim population
I doubt though that "fair game " would include beheading or rape and muttilation..
Typical Unionist black propaganda and posted from a poster notorious for living near Westminster.
I agree. There will certainly be some ruing in this case.
Any man with a name like "Alistair" who can criticise the SNP is clearly a quisling of the lowest order and probably an agent provocateur trying to undermine Scotland.
We are in the midst of a major historical event , the most important since the end of the Cold War and fall of the Soviet Union ...it is a full blown immigration crises !
Word has gotten out among the population of the developing world that Europe is a ''soft touch '' and has lost the will to enforce its own borders and that virtually anyone can claim political asylum if they can reach the European shore
Frau Merkel has in a fit of epic absent mindedness announced that Germany will take 800,000 so called Syrian refugees , but she is likely to get 8 MILLION as millions of folks from the Third World opportunistically GATE CRASH our borders
It's slowly dawned upon her what she has actually done but it's now just too late ; the avalanche is in process and it's going to reach devastating numbers in the spring ...the EU leaders will plead with Turkey to cut off the flow or at least turn it down to a manageable level ; and they will... for a stiff price ! We will have to bribe them with an annual tribute in the form of a latter day Turkish Danegeld that they will opportunistically raise as the crises deepens
Western man is becoming increasingly like the feminised , pacifist ELOI in H G Well's Time Machine and the Muslims from the Maghreb , Syria , Iraq and Afghanistan are the obvious MORLOCKS
Off topics, the slicing back of orders for the Type 26s is a bit of a disappointment and the RAF still looks to me like it's 2-3 squadrons short but, otherwise, this defence review seems to me to be as good as anything that could have been expected:
Two squadrons of Typhoons are being added and we are committing to the F35. As I understand it we are going for a smaller alternative rather than extra T26s. The latest tranche of Typhoons is turning out to be a good multi role plane. A
I'd be interested to see the outrage on here if a given % of white people said muslims were fair game.
And before the bedwetters start screaming its not what I'm proposing, I'm simply interested in consistency and comparison.
I expect you would find the English Defence League would agree " muslims were fair game." That's an estimated 30 to 50k members.. so about .001% of the UK population vs 5+ % of the UK muslim population
I doubt though that "fair game " would include beheading or rape and muttilation..
30-50k members? Blimey, I thought there about a dozen or so of the nutters.
On topic, I know the liberal hand-wringers are desperate for some good news from this Sun polling, so 15% only having some sympathy for murderous medieval beheading bastards is clearly something to be brushed under the carpet.
I wonder what would be the response of these same liberal people to a poll saying 15% had some sympathy for the Ku Klux Klan?
I agree, but Dave has to last until 2020 as well and Defence is a sensitive one for the Tories. It's not something they will be soft on with Corbyn. But ... yes we have to husband Corbyn carefully, he is not doing terribly well at the moment.
I'd be interested to see the outrage on here if a given % of white people said muslims were fair game.
And before the bedwetters start screaming its not what I'm proposing, I'm simply interested in consistency and comparison.
I expect you would find the English Defence League would agree " muslims were fair game." That's an estimated 30 to 50k members.. so about .001% of the UK population vs 5+ % of the UK muslim population
I doubt though that "fair game " would include beheading or rape and muttilation..
30-50k members? Blimey, I thought there about a dozen or so of the nutters.
You should be an expert in the EDL, they endorsed UKIP last year
The thing that stood out for me in that clip of David Cameron on military manoeuvres was the Eagle sisters grinning on the front bench and Angela pointing at Maria after David Cameron attacked Ken Livingstone undermining hardworking Labour frontbenchers. The mutiny is completely open (and on this occasion fully justified).
The thing that stood out for me in that clip of David Cameron on military manoeuvres was the Eagle sisters grinning on the front bench and Angela pointing at Maria after David Cameron attacked Ken Livingstone undermining hardworking Labour frontbenchers. The mutiny is completely open (and on this occasion fully justified).
Prof O'Hara noted it too
@gsoh31: Watson and Eagle have just done the equivalent of a silent protest with a banner to their own leader. Incredible. Was it planned?
@gsoh31: Day 73 of #Labourgeddon: #Labour frontbench clrly agrees w/ PM more than own leader, Eagle on Front Bench indics in charge of Def, not Ken.
Off topics, the slicing back of orders for the Type 26s is a bit of a disappointment and the RAF still looks to me like it's 2-3 squadrons short but, otherwise, this defence review seems to me to be as good as anything that could have been expected:
Two squadrons of Typhoons are being added and we are committing to the F35. As I understand it we are going for a smaller alternative rather than extra T26s. The latest tranche of Typhoons is turning out to be a good multi role plane. A
Please do dig behind the headlines. Some of these announcements are reversals of the 2010 review, some are announcing stuff that has already been announced, some appear on first reading to be disguised cuts (e.g. two new infantry brigades to be created but it would seem at the expense of three armoured infantry brigades disbanded). As for the promise to spend £178bn over ten years, that really ought to be ringing alarm bells.
Spin, spin, glorious spin (to paraphrase Flanders and Swann).
'It's not much comfort that even 5% of British Muslims have sympathy for ISIS joiners That's around a quarter of a million in the UK.'
So the February poll for the Telegraph after the Charlie Hebdo murders which showed that 27% of British Muslims sympathized with ISIS terrorists is also wrong ?
So John Zims was talking shite when he said 27% of British Muslims sympathised with ISIS terrorists.
Thought as much
One in four (27%) British Muslims say they have some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
As ISIS wasn't mentioned in the question, and the question asked about some sympathy with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo attackers, who were nothing to do with ISIS.
Is sympathising with the Charlie Hebdo attackers any better than sympathising with ISIS?
They didn't sympathies with the attackers, they sympathiaed with the motive behind the attacks.
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is "Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked" Agree: 11% Disagree: 85%
11% - deserve to be attacked.......... and the others not willing to admit they hold those thoughts?
The thing that stood out for me in that clip of David Cameron on military manoeuvres was the Eagle sisters grinning on the front bench and Angela pointing at Maria after David Cameron attacked Ken Livingstone undermining hardworking Labour frontbenchers. The mutiny is completely open (and on this occasion fully justified).
Maria appeared to be saying 'Yes. that's me!' and to be pleased with the Primeministerial acknowledgement of her position.
The thing that stood out for me in that clip of David Cameron on military manoeuvres was the Eagle sisters grinning on the front bench and Angela pointing at Maria after David Cameron attacked Ken Livingstone undermining hardworking Labour frontbenchers. The mutiny is completely open (and on this occasion fully justified).
Maria appeared to be saying 'Yes. that's me!' and to be pleased with the Primeministerial acknowledgement of her position.
I thought he was talking about Ken's slur about a Tory minister needing to see a quack?
norman smith @BBCNormanS 1m1 minute ago Jeremy Corbyn calls for a human rights adviser in every embassy
Embassies already have access to such people. They are known as lawyers. And the FCO have plenty of them.
Not just any human rights adviser - a jeremy corbyn huma rights adviser
I wonder if he might be talking about a 'human rights adviser' from charities, not government. How about a CAGE adviser in every embassy? A Stop the War walllah in every consulate?
In case anyone missed it. The good people of Belgium responded to a request by their authorities not to tweet about police operations by ... having a mass tweeting of cat pictures and videos.
The Belgians may have many problems but they did invent the idea of mayonnaise with chips, they brew good beer and they have a massive sense of humour.
As an aside, Corbyn does seem committed to his Mister Bean outfit. It matches his policies nicely.
It is interesting to contrast opinions on the last three Labour leaders that those on the right hold. I think the opinions could be summarised as follows:
Corbyn: Affable but wrong on every count, so long as he can't get power. He is following his views from 40 years ago. Irrelevant
Milliband: Weird, incompetent, dangerous to be in power, opportunistic.
Brown: His mental health was questioned, vacillation, bully and unfit for office.
On this metric each new model appears as an improvement on the previous version.
Comments
They weren't asked if they supported the murderers.
The best you can get from the poll is
"Organisations which publish images of the Prophet Mohammad deserve to be attacked"
Agree: 11%
Disagree: 85%
The comments below this article by Chris Elliott are absolutely fascinating, and I would say required reading for people who want to know where we are in the debate about islam and islamism.
It seems readers of left wing newspapers are far more unhappy with the way these events were reported by their paper of choice than readers of right wing ones. The comment pieces, in particular, are being sent down in flames.
Whatever you think of what the Sun has done, it isn;t leading the debate here.
It is playing catch up.
@MrHarryCole 3m3 minutes ago
In response to Defence Review, Jezza is talking about climate change
. Deathly silence from Labour benches.
Jeremy Corbyn calls for a human rights adviser in every embassy
There is a difference between being a person who feels offended & being a person who feels offended who then acts on that offence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxis7Y1ikIQ
And before the bedwetters start screaming its not what I'm proposing, I'm simply interested in consistency and comparison.
Pianos are obviously far more sensible, from a logistical perspective.
No decent person would have sympathy for any motives after innocent people have been machined gunned to death.
Unbelievable..
And the rest of the Muslim population seem merely indifferent .! Well I mean , Islam is a primal , atavistic, quasi Medieval cult ...just how can fickle liberal democracy possibly compete against that ?.it's the timeless craving for meaning and purpose ; the desire to avoid existential despair and soul death
The loyalty of Muslims is to Islam , not to their host nation and definitely not to so called Western Democracy
Where are the ''Million Muslim March '' to protest against those who have supposedly hijacked Islam ?.....where are the outraged Muslin folk holding up signs saying ''Not in our name '' ?
Don't hold your breath waiting for the outraged Muslims to show their loyalty to their host nations
https://twitter.com/hashtag/notinmyname?lang=en
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAxIOC8Zisc
The question was designed to generate a headline due to how easy it was to mis-report it. It is an incredibly nuanced question which reduced through the black-and-white lens of the media leads to ludicrous headlines.
Labour need a new leader. It's not good for democracy when the PM need only quote the Leader of the Opposition's most recent madness to crush him in the Commons.
At least Miliband was daft, rather than totally crazy.
Mr. Alistair, that's not the same thing as drawing a cartoon, though...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34897076
https://twitter.com/LEJ88/status/668823509028757504
Likewise for the Kurds: I express sympathy with their position, whilst condemning the violent actions of the PKK. Yet they also have a major role in events that should not be forgotten by fans of Assad's murderous regime.
If you don't want Turkey to be our friend, fair enough. Hopefully the government will not make the mistake of withdrawing a hand of friendship, carefully given, and push Turkey further away from the west's interests (and, I would argue, the interests of most of its population).
As for saying I've a 'neo-Ottoman / Islamist spin'; if you're that stupid then perhaps you ought to retire to playgroundmatchsticksbetting.com.
It's about your level.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-mp-centre-police-probe-6885561
Mind you, the Defence establishment has not been known for manning efficiency in the past so who knows.. Otherwise perhaps this is something to review in SDR2020 as the carriers actually start to come online.
I would be appalled if people started calling for violence to be meted out to Muslims here because of the crimes of others.
Me too, not just people here but anywhere. However there does seem to be an awful lot of double standards around.
Cameron pointed out that the Shadow Chancellor wanted to disband MI5, and Corbyn's on the record saying it'd be wonderful (or words to that effect) if, like Costa Rica, we could abolish the armed forces.
There was more, but that was the most important bit.
I doubt though that "fair game " would include beheading or rape and muttilation..
Porridge.
Word has gotten out among the population of the developing world that Europe is a ''soft touch '' and has lost the will to enforce its own borders and that virtually anyone can claim political asylum if they can reach the European shore
Frau Merkel has in a fit of epic absent mindedness announced that Germany will take 800,000 so called Syrian refugees , but she is likely to get 8 MILLION as millions of folks from the Third World opportunistically GATE CRASH our borders
It's slowly dawned upon her what she has actually done but it's now just too late ; the avalanche is in process and it's going to reach devastating numbers in the spring ...the EU leaders will plead with Turkey to cut off the flow or at least turn it down to a manageable level ; and they will... for a stiff price ! We will have to bribe them with an annual tribute in the form of a latter day Turkish Danegeld that they will opportunistically raise as the crises deepens
Western man is becoming increasingly like the feminised , pacifist ELOI in H G Well's Time Machine and the Muslims from the Maghreb , Syria , Iraq and Afghanistan are the obvious MORLOCKS
The latest tranche of Typhoons is turning out to be a good multi role plane.
A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1OVtNBSktI
I wonder what would be the response of these same liberal people to a poll saying 15% had some sympathy for the Ku Klux Klan?
That was a battle.
Corbyn was Tsar Samuel, haunted by the return of his soldiers.
But ... yes we have to husband Corbyn carefully, he is not doing terribly well at the moment.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) seems to have got a great spot on the benches, appearing on the left of frame for this and for PMQs....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/english-defence-league-backs-ukip-in-local-elections-8562350.html
(Before you have an aneurysm, I know the BNP backed Boris in 2008, and there was the Tory in Dudley that tried to start an EDL riot)
These 2 Strike Brigades that David Cameron mentioned in the #SDSR2015... are they made up wholly of Junior Doctors and Tube Workers?
Your collection of puerile remarks is infinite.
@gsoh31: Watson and Eagle have just done the equivalent of a silent protest with a banner to their own leader. Incredible. Was it planned?
@gsoh31: Day 73 of #Labourgeddon: #Labour frontbench clrly agrees w/ PM more than own leader, Eagle on Front Bench indics in charge of Def, not Ken.
As I noted the Tories attracted some interesting support that they repudiated, just like UKIP did
Spin, spin, glorious spin (to paraphrase Flanders and Swann).
It would have been even larger were it not for Labour's superior ground game.
Or the Labour party better hope so or this is going to end up as an ELE.
I'm still available to be Corbyn's fashion adviser.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/09/11/some-fashion-advice-for-jeremy-corbyn/
But not that batshit insane.
The Belgians may have many problems but they did invent the idea of mayonnaise with chips, they brew good beer and they have a massive sense of humour.
#BrusselsLockdown
You missed off splendid chocolates and one of the best circuits on the F1 calendar.
Mr. Jessop, careful. Insulting Ayatollah Corbyni could result in a fatwa against you/
Labour's ruling body will police Twitter for comments made by MPs who criticise the party's leader
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12011600/Labour-MPs-who-criticise-Jeremy-Corbyn-online-to-be-silenced.html
Thought police...wonder what interesting ideas would emerge if they got into power?
Corbyn: Affable but wrong on every count, so long as he can't get power. He is following his views from 40 years ago. Irrelevant
Milliband: Weird, incompetent, dangerous to be in power, opportunistic.
Brown: His mental health was questioned, vacillation, bully and unfit for office.
On this metric each new model appears as an improvement on the previous version.