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  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    Any mathematicians around?

    What is (8 * 8) plus (8 + 8)?
    This is the exact wording from my 9-year-old daughter's homework. She gave the answer 80, which is what I get - but it has been marked wrong. Twice.

    Am I wrong, or is the teacher wrong?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,755
    AndyJS said:

    Canadian election:

    There doesn't seem to be a website anywhere with all the 2011 Canadian election constituency results using the new boundaries on one page so I've done a spreadsheet with the data:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Nqs8lrKYeN06aXEV3YAguk9fCaMSLDnrvMh7pcn4KV4/edit#gid=0

    Fantastic Andy. Harper will need to hold onto all those marginsls in Ontario to win. By contrast, though they can pull ahead on seats, the Liberals need to not only do that but squeeze the NDP elsewhere as well to win.

    Doesn't look like Harper will do it but I still assess a 30% chance he'll be ahead on seats.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited October 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    Dair said:

    Not sure I agree. Australia where AV is actually in place is not particularly kind to third parties in its lower house.

    But to go back to your other post FPTP was endorsed two to one versus what it was put against. That's as much an endorsement as it's possible to get to date. Just as if the SNP wins Holyrood they can have a second bite at an independence referendum if a party in favour of reform gets into office in Westminster then we could get another referendum. But there's no clear appetite for it from the public that only recently rejected overwhelmingly the change that was offered.

    The real shame is how your determined anti-democratic agenda is hidden behind such obvious straw men and constructed lies.

    Just admit the reason you want FPTP, to promote absolute majorites based on tiny vote shares which will generally favour the less divided right.
    Is it SNP policy to move to multimember STV in Scotland?
    Multimember STV is used for local elections. Holyrood uses AMS, both deliver generally proportionate representation. I believe current SNP policy is to maintain PR for all elections and extend this to Westminster (I suspect via AMS but you'd have to ask a member of the party for certainty).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,687
    LucyJones said:

    Any mathematicians around?

    What is (8 * 8) plus (8 + 8)?
    This is the exact wording from my 9-year-old daughter's homework. She gave the answer 80, which is what I get - but it has been marked wrong. Twice.

    Am I wrong, or is the teacher wrong?

    Yes, the teacher is wrong:

    (8 * 8) plus (8 +8) is
    (64) plus (16)

    No ifs, no buts.
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    Any mathematicians around?

    What is (8 * 8) plus (8 + 8)?
    This is the exact wording from my 9-year-old daughter's homework. She gave the answer 80, which is what I get - but it has been marked wrong. Twice.

    Am I wrong, or is the teacher wrong?

    Yes, the teacher is wrong:

    (8 * 8) plus (8 +8) is
    (64) plus (16)

    No ifs, no buts.
    Thanks. Thought so, but wondered if I was missing something obvious.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,687
    LucyJones said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    Any mathematicians around?

    What is (8 * 8) plus (8 + 8)?
    This is the exact wording from my 9-year-old daughter's homework. She gave the answer 80, which is what I get - but it has been marked wrong. Twice.

    Am I wrong, or is the teacher wrong?

    Yes, the teacher is wrong:

    (8 * 8) plus (8 +8) is
    (64) plus (16)

    No ifs, no buts.
    Thanks. Thought so, but wondered if I was missing something obvious.

    I'm guessing your daughter is about the same age as mine :-)
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,755
    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited October 2015

    This will calm things down...

    Referee Craig Joubert was wrong to award a last-minute penalty against Scotland in their World Cup quarter-final defeat by Australia at Twickenham, says World Rugby.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34576756

    It is abundantly clear that Phipps plays the ball and that the award should have been a scrum to Australia for accidental offside.

    World Rugby have no option if they are to keep any integrity to their tournament, either advance Scotland or replay the final 110 seconds from an Australian scrum.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
    Guido FawkesVerified account ‏@GuidoFawkes 5 mins5 minutes ago London, England
    Breaking: @LordAshcroft had renal failure and septic shock, liver failure and kidney failure on September 24. 18 days in intensive care.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,687
    Dair said:

    This will calm things down...

    Referee Craig Joubert was wrong to award a last-minute penalty against Scotland in their World Cup quarter-final defeat by Australia at Twickenham, says World Rugby.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34576756

    It is abundantly clear that Phipps plays the ball and that the award should have been a scrum to Australia for accidental offside.

    World Rugby have no option if they are to keep any integrity to their tournament, either advance Scotland or replay the final 110 seconds from an Australian scum.
    I don't think you should call the Australians scum.
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    Any mathematicians around?

    What is (8 * 8) plus (8 + 8)?
    This is the exact wording from my 9-year-old daughter's homework. She gave the answer 80, which is what I get - but it has been marked wrong. Twice.

    Am I wrong, or is the teacher wrong?

    Yes, the teacher is wrong:

    (8 * 8) plus (8 +8) is
    (64) plus (16)

    No ifs, no buts.
    Thanks. Thought so, but wondered if I was missing something obvious.

    I'm guessing your daughter is about the same age as mine :-)
    She's 9 and in Year 5 at school. Very happy to have her answer confirmed over the internet.

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    rcs1000 said:

    Dair said:

    This will calm things down...

    Referee Craig Joubert was wrong to award a last-minute penalty against Scotland in their World Cup quarter-final defeat by Australia at Twickenham, says World Rugby.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34576756

    It is abundantly clear that Phipps plays the ball and that the award should have been a scrum to Australia for accidental offside.

    World Rugby have no option if they are to keep any integrity to their tournament, either advance Scotland or replay the final 110 seconds from an Australian scum.
    I don't think you should call the Australians scum.
    Do England have a monopoly on the term?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Much as I wish Ashcroft well, I'm pretty sure this is Cameron's reaction right now

    http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Paul-Eddington-Yes-Prime-Minister-Laughing-to-Sad-Reaction.gif
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
    Guido FawkesVerified account ‏@GuidoFawkes 5 mins5 minutes ago London, England
    Breaking: @LordAshcroft had renal failure and septic shock, liver failure and kidney failure on September 24. 18 days in intensive care.
    Was the book the final act of vengeance?
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    RobD said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
    Guido FawkesVerified account ‏@GuidoFawkes 5 mins5 minutes ago London, England
    Breaking: @LordAshcroft had renal failure and septic shock, liver failure and kidney failure on September 24. 18 days in intensive care.
    Was the book the final act of vengeance?
    Iain Dale's doing his speech for him at the book launch.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,422
    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    Any mathematicians around?

    What is (8 * 8) plus (8 + 8)?
    This is the exact wording from my 9-year-old daughter's homework. She gave the answer 80, which is what I get - but it has been marked wrong. Twice.

    Am I wrong, or is the teacher wrong?

    Yes, the teacher is wrong:

    (8 * 8) plus (8 +8) is
    (64) plus (16)

    No ifs, no buts.
    Bodmas ^_~ indeed it is 80.

    What does yr daughter's teacher reckon ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,538
    rcs1000 said:

    Even the Turkish Cypriots you know? ;)

    I don't actually know any Turkish Cypriots...
    However, I do know quite a number of Greek Cypriots.

    No Cypriot politician that voted to allow Turkey into the EU would survive an hour in Cyprus. He would, literally, be hunted down and torn limb from limb. Fear of the German government is nothing compared with fear of being physically assaulted by your own people.
    Yet we in the EU support the side who would do such a thing? :)

    In all seriousness, I've never really seen why we're so pro the Greek Cypriots and anti the Turkish Cypriots, especially given the history of the island.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,755
    RobD said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Much as I wish Ashcroft well, I'm pretty sure this is Cameron's reaction right now

    http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Paul-Eddington-Yes-Prime-Minister-Laughing-to-Sad-Reaction.gif
    Why would it be?

  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    Any mathematicians around?

    What is (8 * 8) plus (8 + 8)?
    This is the exact wording from my 9-year-old daughter's homework. She gave the answer 80, which is what I get - but it has been marked wrong. Twice.

    Am I wrong, or is the teacher wrong?

    Yes, the teacher is wrong:

    (8 * 8) plus (8 +8) is
    (64) plus (16)

    No ifs, no buts.
    Bodmas ^_~ indeed it is 80.

    What does yr daughter's teacher reckon ?
    I don't know. She got this question for homework, wrote 80 as an answer and got it marked wrong. I looked at it, said that the answer was definitely 80 and she re-submitted it, only for it to be marked wrong again. She is going to submit it a third time with an explanatory note from me. My guess is that the teacher is just marking using an answer book and there is a typo in it.

  • Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    Any mathematicians around?

    What is (8 * 8) plus (8 + 8)?
    This is the exact wording from my 9-year-old daughter's homework. She gave the answer 80, which is what I get - but it has been marked wrong. Twice.

    Am I wrong, or is the teacher wrong?

    Yes, the teacher is wrong:

    (8 * 8) plus (8 +8) is
    (64) plus (16)

    No ifs, no buts.
    Bodmas ^_~ indeed it is 80.

    What does yr daughter's teacher reckon ?
    I did the same homework with my Grandson recently, we got 80 as well and just confirmed with him that it was marked as correct.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,755
    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
    Guido FawkesVerified account ‏@GuidoFawkes 5 mins5 minutes ago London, England
    Breaking: @LordAshcroft had renal failure and septic shock, liver failure and kidney failure on September 24. 18 days in intensive care.
    God. Very sad news.

    I really worry about Lord Ashcroft - he seems like he's let a 5-year old grievance eat him up from inside.

    I hope he gets better, and that they're unrelated, but sometimes in life you really do have to let go. Or you do end up digging those two graves.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    LucyJones said:

    Any mathematicians around?

    What is (8 * 8) plus (8 + 8)?
    This is the exact wording from my 9-year-old daughter's homework. She gave the answer 80, which is what I get - but it has been marked wrong. Twice.

    Am I wrong, or is the teacher wrong?

    I cant even see anything sneaky in it. Nice straight forward maths.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    He's been tweeting about the rugby

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
    Guido FawkesVerified account ‏@GuidoFawkes 5 mins5 minutes ago London, England
    Breaking: @LordAshcroft had renal failure and septic shock, liver failure and kidney failure on September 24. 18 days in intensive care.
    God. Very sad news.

    I really worry about Lord Ashcroft - he seems like he's let a 5-year old grievance eat him up from inside.

    I hope he gets better, and that they're unrelated, but sometimes in life you really do have to let go. Or you do end up digging those two graves.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,687

    rcs1000 said:

    Even the Turkish Cypriots you know? ;)

    I don't actually know any Turkish Cypriots...
    However, I do know quite a number of Greek Cypriots.

    No Cypriot politician that voted to allow Turkey into the EU would survive an hour in Cyprus. He would, literally, be hunted down and torn limb from limb. Fear of the German government is nothing compared with fear of being physically assaulted by your own people.
    Yet we in the EU support the side who would do such a thing? :)

    In all seriousness, I've never really seen why we're so pro the Greek Cypriots and anti the Turkish Cypriots, especially given the history of the island.
    I'm not really pro- or anti- anything: Turkish Cypriots were second class citizens before partition of the island.

    But to Greek Cypriots, their island was invaded by the Turks, and forcibly partitioned. That is why - while Turkish troops are stationed in Northern Cyprus - it would be politically impossible for any Cypriot politician to fail to veto Turkish membership.

    I find it funny that people just assume that the Cypriots or Greeks are not proud people with their own history and traditions and will just do what the Germans say. Let's not forget that the Hungarians, for example, "just said no" to the Germans in public with regards to migrants. (And other government said no in private.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,687
    As an aside: when did nine year olds start getting homework?

    I certainly never got any before secondary school.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,003
    RobD said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Much as I wish Ashcroft well, I'm pretty sure this is Cameron's reaction right now

    http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Paul-Eddington-Yes-Prime-Minister-Laughing-to-Sad-Reaction.gif
    I'd hope not. That is some serious life-threatening stuff there. Lost a sister to a similar bundle of badness. I would like to think Cameron is a bigger man than to rejoice in such suffering...
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,933
    Dair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dair said:

    The AV referendum result was an endorsement of FPTP. FPTP was the status quo and change was rejected by two to one.

    Change was not on the agenda. It was an offer to change from a broken, undemocratic winner takes all ballot to a more complicated broken, undemocratic winner takes all ballot designed to boost the number of seats the Liberals got.

    The public was asked if they wanted more Liberals in Westminster and, just as in 2015, the public said no.

    No other endorsement can be implied.
    I suspect the LibDems would have done even worse under AV than they actually did under FPTP.
    That;s certainly true as things turned out because the Liberals lost their place as the third party. But it's still all that AV offers, a seat boost to the third party which is unrelated to proportionality.

    At the time of the vote, however, the Liberals were the established, long term third party and there was little doubt what the AV proposal was designed to do and would have delivered historically.
    ... and yet it was Hague who offered the AV referendum. The LibDems have always wanted STV in multi member constituencies.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046

    RobD said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Much as I wish Ashcroft well, I'm pretty sure this is Cameron's reaction right now

    http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Paul-Eddington-Yes-Prime-Minister-Laughing-to-Sad-Reaction.gif
    I'd hope not. That is some serious life-threatening stuff there. Lost a sister to a similar bundle of badness. I would like to think Cameron is a bigger man than to rejoice in such suffering...
    Dammit. Should have used the cheeky emoticon!
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside: when did nine year olds start getting homework?

    I certainly never got any before secondary school.

    I remember having spelling lists to learn and times tables to learn. But that was more-or-less it until I got to secondary school. Once in a blue moon we might have been asked to write a poem or story or similar.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Terrible news about Lord Ashcroft. Best wishes to him and his family.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    rcs1000 said:

    Even the Turkish Cypriots you know? ;)

    I don't actually know any Turkish Cypriots...
    However, I do know quite a number of Greek Cypriots.

    No Cypriot politician that voted to allow Turkey into the EU would survive an hour in Cyprus. He would, literally, be hunted down and torn limb from limb. Fear of the German government is nothing compared with fear of being physically assaulted by your own people.
    Yet we in the EU support the side who would do such a thing? :)

    In all seriousness, I've never really seen why we're so pro the Greek Cypriots and anti the Turkish Cypriots, especially given the history of the island.
    In the HoC today Ken Clarke asked Cameron whether, among other things, he supported the membership of Turkey in the EU. Cameron did not answer that part of the question but has previously said that he does. Very dangerous (for him and for us). He has also said previously that new entrants should have more stringent criteria including that GDP per head should be at least 60% (?) of the EU average to avoid massive migration. Very sensible.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Canadian election:

    There doesn't seem to be a website anywhere with all the 2011 Canadian election constituency results using the new boundaries on one page so I've done a spreadsheet with the data:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Nqs8lrKYeN06aXEV3YAguk9fCaMSLDnrvMh7pcn4KV4/edit#gid=0

    Fantastic Andy. Harper will need to hold onto all those marginsls in Ontario to win. By contrast, though they can pull ahead on seats, the Liberals need to not only do that but squeeze the NDP elsewhere as well to win.

    Doesn't look like Harper will do it but I still assess a 30% chance he'll be ahead on seats.
    Harper's chances of retaining his overall majority must be somewhere around zero. That's pretty obvious when you look at areas like Mississauga where all 6 seats are marginals with the Liberals only slightly behind. Since they've pretty much doubled their support from the last election there's no way they can fail to win those seats.

    Mississauga Centre Con: 17,790 Lib: 15,671
    Mississauga East—Cooksville Con: 19,269 Lib: 15,999
    Mississauga—Erin Mills Con: 21,646 Lib: 15,978
    Mississauga—Lakeshore Con: 24,269 Lib: 19,068
    Mississauga—Malton Con: 13,715 Lib: 13,477
    Mississauga—Streetsville Con: 21,324 Lib: 16,179
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    This is an interesting graph:

    http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/20151017_SRC804.png

    It occurs to me that the EU would need to sign a free trade deal with the UK or else they would very shortly see Ireland leave the club too.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,538
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Even the Turkish Cypriots you know? ;)

    I don't actually know any Turkish Cypriots...
    However, I do know quite a number of Greek Cypriots.

    No Cypriot politician that voted to allow Turkey into the EU would survive an hour in Cyprus. He would, literally, be hunted down and torn limb from limb. Fear of the German government is nothing compared with fear of being physically assaulted by your own people.
    Yet we in the EU support the side who would do such a thing? :)

    In all seriousness, I've never really seen why we're so pro the Greek Cypriots and anti the Turkish Cypriots, especially given the history of the island.
    I'm not really pro- or anti- anything: Turkish Cypriots were second class citizens before partition of the island.

    But to Greek Cypriots, their island was invaded by the Turks, and forcibly partitioned. That is why - while Turkish troops are stationed in Northern Cyprus - it would be politically impossible for any Cypriot politician to fail to veto Turkish membership.

    I find it funny that people just assume that the Cypriots or Greeks are not proud people with their own history and traditions and will just do what the Germans say. Let's not forget that the Hungarians, for example, "just said no" to the Germans in public with regards to migrants. (And other government said no in private.)
    I agree with much of that, but the phrase "their island was invaded by the Turks" rather ignores the fact that the Greek Junta sent in the Greek army to start a coup against the Cypriot government in order to unite the entirety of Cyprus with Greece. Turkey's invasion was in response to this and the terrorist group EOKA's violence against Turks.

    Given all this, I find it odd that the west and EU automatically back Greek Cyprus.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
    Guido FawkesVerified account ‏@GuidoFawkes 5 mins5 minutes ago London, England
    Breaking: @LordAshcroft had renal failure and septic shock, liver failure and kidney failure on September 24. 18 days in intensive care.
    God. Very sad news.

    I really worry about Lord Ashcroft - he seems like he's let a 5-year old grievance eat him up from inside.

    I hope he gets better, and that they're unrelated, but sometimes in life you really do have to let go. Or you do end up digging those two graves.
    Yes, the relish with which he enjoyed embarrassing Cameron was sad to see. It is never healthy to take pleasure in other people's misfortune. Life is too short.
  • I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,538
    perdix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Even the Turkish Cypriots you know? ;)

    I don't actually know any Turkish Cypriots...
    However, I do know quite a number of Greek Cypriots.

    No Cypriot politician that voted to allow Turkey into the EU would survive an hour in Cyprus. He would, literally, be hunted down and torn limb from limb. Fear of the German government is nothing compared with fear of being physically assaulted by your own people.
    Yet we in the EU support the side who would do such a thing? :)

    In all seriousness, I've never really seen why we're so pro the Greek Cypriots and anti the Turkish Cypriots, especially given the history of the island.
    In the HoC today Ken Clarke asked Cameron whether, among other things, he supported the membership of Turkey in the EU. Cameron did not answer that part of the question but has previously said that he does. Very dangerous (for him and for us). He has also said previously that new entrants should have more stringent criteria including that GDP per head should be at least 60% (?) of the EU average to avoid massive migration. Very sensible.

    As has been said many times on this thread, there's no chance of Turkey joining the EU in the next decade or two. But it is very much in our interests to stop Turkey moving further to the eastern sphere of influence. Talking about EU membership gives us a little influence with them that may help prevent that, and in the process the further Islamification of Turkey.

    Reduced secularism in Turkey is certainly not in the EU's interests, even if the country is not a member.
  • rcs1000 said:

    As an aside: when did nine year olds start getting homework?

    I certainly never got any before secondary school.

    My grandkids started getting homework at around seven, spellings and that sort of thing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,687

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Even the Turkish Cypriots you know? ;)

    I don't actually know any Turkish Cypriots...
    However, I do know quite a number of Greek Cypriots.

    No Cypriot politician that voted to allow Turkey into the EU would survive an hour in Cyprus. He would, literally, be hunted down and torn limb from limb. Fear of the German government is nothing compared with fear of being physically assaulted by your own people.
    Yet we in the EU support the side who would do such a thing? :)

    In all seriousness, I've never really seen why we're so pro the Greek Cypriots and anti the Turkish Cypriots, especially given the history of the island.
    I'm not really pro- or anti- anything: Turkish Cypriots were second class citizens before partition of the island.

    But to Greek Cypriots, their island was invaded by the Turks, and forcibly partitioned. That is why - while Turkish troops are stationed in Northern Cyprus - it would be politically impossible for any Cypriot politician to fail to veto Turkish membership.

    I find it funny that people just assume that the Cypriots or Greeks are not proud people with their own history and traditions and will just do what the Germans say. Let's not forget that the Hungarians, for example, "just said no" to the Germans in public with regards to migrants. (And other government said no in private.)
    I agree with much of that, but the phrase "their island was invaded by the Turks" rather ignores the fact that the Greek Junta sent in the Greek army to start a coup against the Cypriot government in order to unite the entirety of Cyprus with Greece. Turkey's invasion was in response to this and the terrorist group EOKA's violence against Turks.

    Given all this, I find it odd that the west and EU automatically back Greek Cyprus.
    Cyrpus is in the tent. Turkey is outside the tent. Cyprus gets a veto.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside: when did nine year olds start getting homework?

    I certainly never got any before secondary school.

    Silly idea to make children that young do homework IMO. I bet it hasn't improved standards one bit.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    LucyJones said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    Any mathematicians around?

    What is (8 * 8) plus (8 + 8)?
    This is the exact wording from my 9-year-old daughter's homework. She gave the answer 80, which is what I get - but it has been marked wrong. Twice.

    Am I wrong, or is the teacher wrong?

    Yes, the teacher is wrong:

    (8 * 8) plus (8 +8) is
    (64) plus (16)

    No ifs, no buts.
    Bodmas ^_~ indeed it is 80.

    What does yr daughter's teacher reckon ?
    I don't know. She got this question for homework, wrote 80 as an answer and got it marked wrong. I looked at it, said that the answer was definitely 80 and she re-submitted it, only for it to be marked wrong again. She is going to submit it a third time with an explanatory note from me. My guess is that the teacher is just marking using an answer book and there is a typo in it.

    either that or she's expected to show working:

    8*8 = 64
    8+8 = 16
    64+16 = 80

    That kind of thing...
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
    Guido FawkesVerified account ‏@GuidoFawkes 5 mins5 minutes ago London, England
    Breaking: @LordAshcroft had renal failure and septic shock, liver failure and kidney failure on September 24. 18 days in intensive care.
    God. Very sad news.

    I really worry about Lord Ashcroft - he seems like he's let a 5-year old grievance eat him up from inside.

    I hope he gets better, and that they're unrelated, but sometimes in life you really do have to let go. Or you do end up digging those two graves.
    He's reported as being 'out of danger'. Yep maybe it's festered. Though he seems to live a good life going by the photos of various views he posts on his travels.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    LucyJones said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    Any mathematicians around?

    What is (8 * 8) plus (8 + 8)?
    This is the exact wording from my 9-year-old daughter's homework. She gave the answer 80, which is what I get - but it has been marked wrong. Twice.

    Am I wrong, or is the teacher wrong?

    Yes, the teacher is wrong:

    (8 * 8) plus (8 +8) is
    (64) plus (16)

    No ifs, no buts.
    Bodmas ^_~ indeed it is 80.

    What does yr daughter's teacher reckon ?
    I don't know. She got this question for homework, wrote 80 as an answer and got it marked wrong. I looked at it, said that the answer was definitely 80 and she re-submitted it, only for it to be marked wrong again. She is going to submit it a third time with an explanatory note from me. My guess is that the teacher is just marking using an answer book and there is a typo in it.

    Or maybe the teacher is useless at maths. But even if there's a typo in the answer book the teacher ought to have spotted the mistake anyway.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PT The problems in Turkey are Turkeys problems... but if 75 million of them suddenly have access and the right of residence in Europe....most of them being Muslims..then it will very rapidly become Europe's problem...in a very big way..

    Schengen does not grant right of residence, merely right to cross the border without a passport. Switzerland, for example, is part of Schengen, but a Frenchman has no right to reside there.

    Don't forget a Turk with a passport can already cross into the Schengen zone without a visa. The Turks gain no additional right to come to the UK in the event that they did join Schengen.
    But membership of the EU would grant that right, surely?
    There is literally no chance of Turkey joining the EU in my lifetime.

    1. Turks don't want to join.
    2. The Greeks and Cypriots would veto it.
    The Greeks and Cypriots will do as their told by Merkel. If the Germans want them in, they'll be in. As you say, the only thing that's stopping me freaking out at the prospect is that the Turks probably don't really fancy it.
    According to recent polls the Turkish population is not interested in joining the EU. However, the Turkish government says it is.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,687
    JEO said:

    This is an interesting graph:

    http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/20151017_SRC804.png

    It occurs to me that the EU would need to sign a free trade deal with the UK or else they would very shortly see Ireland leave the club too.

    Ireland and the UK have incredibly integrated economies, and Ireland would be put in a very difficult position if the UK left. It would be desperate to maintain current trading agreements with the UK, but Ireland is also very dependent on its trading arrangements with the EU. In general, the Irish economy is much more trade dependent than the UK.

    (Exports are actually more than 100% of GDP in Ireland, which is incredibly unusual.)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    Dair said:

    This will calm things down...

    Referee Craig Joubert was wrong to award a last-minute penalty against Scotland in their World Cup quarter-final defeat by Australia at Twickenham, says World Rugby.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34576756

    It is abundantly clear that Phipps plays the ball and that the award should have been a scrum to Australia for accidental offside.

    World Rugby have no option if they are to keep any integrity to their tournament, either advance Scotland or replay the final 110 seconds from an Australian scrum.
    Sometimes you just have to say c'est la vie. Especially when it comes to sporting events. Take it from a Spurs and England fan, it's not good to let this stuff get to you.
  • I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    MaxPB said:

    Dair said:

    This will calm things down...

    Referee Craig Joubert was wrong to award a last-minute penalty against Scotland in their World Cup quarter-final defeat by Australia at Twickenham, says World Rugby.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34576756

    It is abundantly clear that Phipps plays the ball and that the award should have been a scrum to Australia for accidental offside.

    World Rugby have no option if they are to keep any integrity to their tournament, either advance Scotland or replay the final 110 seconds from an Australian scrum.
    Sometimes you just have to say c'est la vie. Especially when it comes to sporting events. Take it from a Spurs and England fan, it's not good to let this stuff get to you.
    Quite.

    I can't think of anything more damaging to Rugby's integrity than forcing a replay of 110 seconds of a match, or advancing Scotland at the expense of Australia.
    There does need to be something by way of an explanation for legging it off the field at the end though...
  • MaxPB said:

    Dair said:

    This will calm things down...

    Referee Craig Joubert was wrong to award a last-minute penalty against Scotland in their World Cup quarter-final defeat by Australia at Twickenham, says World Rugby.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34576756

    It is abundantly clear that Phipps plays the ball and that the award should have been a scrum to Australia for accidental offside.

    World Rugby have no option if they are to keep any integrity to their tournament, either advance Scotland or replay the final 110 seconds from an Australian scrum.
    Sometimes you just have to say c'est la vie. Especially when it comes to sporting events. Take it from a Spurs and England fan, it's not good to let this stuff get to you.
    Lasagne anyone..... still feel the pain.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Another replay demanded by Scotland...just like the Indy Ref..man up..
  • Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
    Guido FawkesVerified account ‏@GuidoFawkes 5 mins5 minutes ago London, England
    Breaking: @LordAshcroft had renal failure and septic shock, liver failure and kidney failure on September 24. 18 days in intensive care.
    God. Very sad news.

    I really worry about Lord Ashcroft - he seems like he's let a 5-year old grievance eat him up from inside.

    I hope he gets better, and that they're unrelated, but sometimes in life you really do have to let go. Or you do end up digging those two graves.
    He's reported as being 'out of danger'. Yep maybe it's festered. Though he seems to live a good life going by the photos of various views he posts on his travels.
    He's just tweeted an Opinium poll?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Interestingly, the ridings where the Canadian Tories might make gains tonight are mostly in the Quebec City area and a few others in that general part of the province.

    Possible gains include: Quebec, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, Jonquière, Louis-Saint-Laurent, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, Richmond—Arthabaska.

    http://www.threehundredeight.com/p/canada.html
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    JEO said:

    This is an interesting graph:

    http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/20151017_SRC804.png

    It occurs to me that the EU would need to sign a free trade deal with the UK or else they would very shortly see Ireland leave the club too.

    Less than a third of the goods exports destined for the Netherlands actually remain there, the rest is then re-exported to Asia and Africs via Rotterdam. I believe the latest figure is 42% of goods exported to the EU and 58% to RoW if one takes into account the Rotterdam effect. The EU figure has also been going down fairly rapidly as well from an all time high of almost 60% in 2007. Another 5 years of the current movement and EU trade will account for around a third of our total export of goods, and a quarter of our total export of goods and services. The EU is no longer as important a market to us as it used to be, in fact it is one of our largest deficit markets, putting up a trade barrier or two for a while might wean us off German imports for long enough to allow our domestic industries recover from years of German wage dumping.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
    Guido FawkesVerified account ‏@GuidoFawkes 5 mins5 minutes ago London, England
    Breaking: @LordAshcroft had renal failure and septic shock, liver failure and kidney failure on September 24. 18 days in intensive care.
    God. Very sad news.

    I really worry about Lord Ashcroft - he seems like he's let a 5-year old grievance eat him up from inside.

    I hope he gets better, and that they're unrelated, but sometimes in life you really do have to let go. Or you do end up digging those two graves.
    He's reported as being 'out of danger'. Yep maybe it's festered. Though he seems to live a good life going by the photos of various views he posts on his travels.
    He's just tweeted an Opinium poll?
    Yep - he's been tweeting on and off.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,538

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
    Guido FawkesVerified account ‏@GuidoFawkes 5 mins5 minutes ago London, England
    Breaking: @LordAshcroft had renal failure and septic shock, liver failure and kidney failure on September 24. 18 days in intensive care.
    God. Very sad news.

    I really worry about Lord Ashcroft - he seems like he's let a 5-year old grievance eat him up from inside.

    I hope he gets better, and that they're unrelated, but sometimes in life you really do have to let go. Or you do end up digging those two graves.
    He's reported as being 'out of danger'. Yep maybe it's festered. Though he seems to live a good life going by the photos of various views he posts on his travels.
    He's just tweeted an Opinium poll?
    Perhaps he's not the person actually tweeting? I don't know the way Ashcroft works, but it could easily be one of his staff.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    edited October 2015

    MaxPB said:

    Dair said:

    This will calm things down...

    Referee Craig Joubert was wrong to award a last-minute penalty against Scotland in their World Cup quarter-final defeat by Australia at Twickenham, says World Rugby.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34576756

    It is abundantly clear that Phipps plays the ball and that the award should have been a scrum to Australia for accidental offside.

    World Rugby have no option if they are to keep any integrity to their tournament, either advance Scotland or replay the final 110 seconds from an Australian scrum.
    Sometimes you just have to say c'est la vie. Especially when it comes to sporting events. Take it from a Spurs and England fan, it's not good to let this stuff get to you.
    Lasagne anyone..... still feel the pain.
    Or finishing fourth and then watching Drogba score against Bayern with just one minute of normal time left.
  • MaxPB said:

    Dair said:

    This will calm things down...

    Referee Craig Joubert was wrong to award a last-minute penalty against Scotland in their World Cup quarter-final defeat by Australia at Twickenham, says World Rugby.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34576756

    It is abundantly clear that Phipps plays the ball and that the award should have been a scrum to Australia for accidental offside.

    World Rugby have no option if they are to keep any integrity to their tournament, either advance Scotland or replay the final 110 seconds from an Australian scrum.
    Sometimes you just have to say c'est la vie. Especially when it comes to sporting events. Take it from a Spurs and England fan, it's not good to let this stuff get to you.
    Lasagne anyone..... still feel the pain.
    The mention of Ovebro brings me out in a cold sweat.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
    Guido FawkesVerified account ‏@GuidoFawkes 5 mins5 minutes ago London, England
    Breaking: @LordAshcroft had renal failure and septic shock, liver failure and kidney failure on September 24. 18 days in intensive care.
    God. Very sad news.

    I really worry about Lord Ashcroft - he seems like he's let a 5-year old grievance eat him up from inside.

    I hope he gets better, and that they're unrelated, but sometimes in life you really do have to let go. Or you do end up digging those two graves.
    He's reported as being 'out of danger'. Yep maybe it's festered. Though he seems to live a good life going by the photos of various views he posts on his travels.
    He's just tweeted an Opinium poll?
    Perhaps he's not the person actually tweeting? I don't know the way Ashcroft works, but it could easily be one of his staff.
    Or he could be hooked up to hooked up to a dialysis machine bored to tears.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited October 2015

    I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    National Insurance is a remarkably stupid, highly regressive tax which creates ridiculous disincentives. Purely because it's easy to collect and hard to avoid. However, the change and move towards self-employment is gradually undermining this.

    It is high time NI was merged into general taxation, adding 3ppts to the basic rate and keeping the higher rate at 45% rather than cutting to 40% (jiggle to make the change neutral). At the same time, just abolish the wage tax (Employers NI) and replace with an unavoidable, undeductable fractional Turnover Tax (less than 0.5% would do it I suspect).

    Also outlaw any politician ever referring to income taxation as being valued in "pence" instead of percentages. Time for some truth.
  • Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
    Guido FawkesVerified account ‏@GuidoFawkes 5 mins5 minutes ago London, England
    Breaking: @LordAshcroft had renal failure and septic shock, liver failure and kidney failure on September 24. 18 days in intensive care.
    God. Very sad news.

    I really worry about Lord Ashcroft - he seems like he's let a 5-year old grievance eat him up from inside.

    I hope he gets better, and that they're unrelated, but sometimes in life you really do have to let go. Or you do end up digging those two graves.
    He's reported as being 'out of danger'. Yep maybe it's festered. Though he seems to live a good life going by the photos of various views he posts on his travels.
    He's just tweeted an Opinium poll?
    Perhaps he's not the person actually tweeting? I don't know the way Ashcroft works, but it could easily be one of his staff.
    I thin that's rights, the Telegraph now got same story re Lord a health.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2015
    O/T:

    Interesting letter in today's Times pointing out that on 15th October the paper listed the arguments in favour of grammar schools, saying they were "beyond reproach", and then advised against a nationwide return to the grammar school system. How does that make sense? the letter writer asks. Good question.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    edited October 2015

    I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    They are not an employee of a company. If they are in business, then as an employer they will be paying NI, but if thy don't employ anybody, why should they be treated as if they are?
    They will be paying income tax on the rental income.
    I bet you support IR35 too...
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Another replay demanded by Scotland...just like the Indy Ref..man up..

    At least in this case World Rugby have admitted the ref was bent. The UK government is still clinging to the lie that the postal ballot outcome was free and fair (and clearly planned this from the outset, hence banning exit polling).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,687
    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    This is an interesting graph:

    http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/20151017_SRC804.png

    It occurs to me that the EU would need to sign a free trade deal with the UK or else they would very shortly see Ireland leave the club too.

    Less than a third of the goods exports destined for the Netherlands actually remain there, the rest is then re-exported to Asia and Africs via Rotterdam. I believe the latest figure is 42% of goods exported to the EU and 58% to RoW if one takes into account the Rotterdam effect. The EU figure has also been going down fairly rapidly as well from an all time high of almost 60% in 2007. Another 5 years of the current movement and EU trade will account for around a third of our total export of goods, and a quarter of our total export of goods and services. The EU is no longer as important a market to us as it used to be, in fact it is one of our largest deficit markets, putting up a trade barrier or two for a while might wean us off German imports for long enough to allow our domestic industries recover from years of German wage dumping.
    There's a lot in the export data that needs to be stripped out. We import gas from Norway, which is immediately re-exported to Ireland. It passes through pipes in the UK, and boosts our export numbers, but really we just get a small toll for it using pipes on its way from a Norwegian platform to Ireland. (When the Corrib gas field in Ireland comes on stream, it will result in UK imports from non-EU falling, as will exports to EU.)

    It would be interesting to look at "value add" exports, so, the Irish gas would just register our toll, etc
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    Dair said:

    Another replay demanded by Scotland...just like the Indy Ref..man up..

    At least in this case World Rugby have admitted the ref was bent. The UK government is still clinging to the lie that the postal ballot outcome was free and fair (and clearly planned this from the outset, hence banning exit polling).
    Sorry, can't hear you over this high-pitched whining noise....
  • I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    They are not an employee of a company. If they are in business, then as an employer they will be paying NI, but if thy don't employ anybody, why should they be treated as if they are?
    They will be paying income tax on the rental income.
    I bet you support IR35 too...
    You bet I support IR35...it's an abuse of the system designed to avoid paying the fair amount of tax that finances our piblic services. Yes, they will be paying tax but why not make that income NICable?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    This is an interesting graph:

    http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/20151017_SRC804.png

    It occurs to me that the EU would need to sign a free trade deal with the UK or else they would very shortly see Ireland leave the club too.

    Less than a third of the goods exports destined for the Netherlands actually remain there, the rest is then re-exported to Asia and Africs via Rotterdam. I believe the latest figure is 42% of goods exported to the EU and 58% to RoW if one takes into account the Rotterdam effect. The EU figure has also been going down fairly rapidly as well from an all time high of almost 60% in 2007. Another 5 years of the current movement and EU trade will account for around a third of our total export of goods, and a quarter of our total export of goods and services. The EU is no longer as important a market to us as it used to be, in fact it is one of our largest deficit markets, putting up a trade barrier or two for a while might wean us off German imports for long enough to allow our domestic industries recover from years of German wage dumping.
    There's a lot in the export data that needs to be stripped out. We import gas from Norway, which is immediately re-exported to Ireland. It passes through pipes in the UK, and boosts our export numbers, but really we just get a small toll for it using pipes on its way from a Norwegian platform to Ireland. (When the Corrib gas field in Ireland comes on stream, it will result in UK imports from non-EU falling, as will exports to EU.)

    It would be interesting to look at "value add" exports, so, the Irish gas would just register our toll, etc
    Yes, I think that is a good idea, I'll get an intern on it tomorrow, give her something to do.
  • Dair said:

    Not sure I agree. Australia where AV is actually in place is not particularly kind to third parties in its lower house.

    But to go back to your other post FPTP was endorsed two to one versus what it was put against. That's as much an endorsement as it's possible to get to date. Just as if the SNP wins Holyrood they can have a second bite at an independence referendum if a party in favour of reform gets into office in Westminster then we could get another referendum. But there's no clear appetite for it from the public that only recently rejected overwhelmingly the change that was offered.

    The real shame is how your determined anti-democratic agenda is hidden behind such obvious straw men and constructed lies.

    Just admit the reason you want FPTP, to promote absolute majorites based on tiny vote shares which will generally favour the less divided right.
    No I don't. I support FPTP because it works. Left versus Right has nothing to do with it, many PR nations had more right wing governments than ours under Brown with FPTP notoriously biased against the Tories but as much as I detested Brown's government I never once wavered in supporting FPTP.

    Whether it works for us sometimes or against us sometimes, the simple thing is that it works and it is in my eyes by far the fairest system of all.

    Though in England Labour got 88% of the left wing parties vote in 2015 while the Tories got 75% of the right wing parties vote. So how is the left more divided?
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Dair said:

    I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    National Insurance is a remarkably stupid, highly regressive tax which creates ridiculous disincentives. Purely because it's easy to collect and hard to avoid. However, the change and move towards self-employment is gradually undermining this.

    It is high time NI was merged into general taxation, adding 3ppts to the basic rate and keeping the higher rate at 45% rather than cutting to 40% (jiggle to make the change neutral). At the same time, just abolish the wage tax (Employers NI) and replace with an unavoidable, undeductable fractional Turnover Tax (less than 0.5% would do it I suspect).

    Also outlaw any politician ever referring to income taxation as being valued in "pence" instead of percentages. Time for some truth.
    Wouldnt a turnover tax have some weird consequences? Some companies work on very fine margins, but have a gigantic turnover.
  • I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    NIC is a tax on wages not business so it isn't valid at all.
  • Dair said:

    I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    National Insurance is a remarkably stupid, highly regressive tax which creates ridiculous disincentives. Purely because it's easy to collect and hard to avoid. However, the change and move towards self-employment is gradually undermining this.

    It is high time NI was merged into general taxation, adding 3ppts to the basic rate and keeping the higher rate at 45% rather than cutting to 40% (jiggle to make the change neutral). At the same time, just abolish the wage tax (Employers NI) and replace with an unavoidable, undeductable fractional Turnover Tax (less than 0.5% would do it I suspect).

    Also outlaw any politician ever referring to income taxation as being valued in "pence" instead of percentages. Time for some truth.
    Wouldn't disagree with much there...of course you would end up penalising a lot of pensioners who would be taxed higher on their income whereas now they pay no NI...doesn't bother me though
  • notme said:

    Dair said:

    I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    National Insurance is a remarkably stupid, highly regressive tax which creates ridiculous disincentives. Purely because it's easy to collect and hard to avoid. However, the change and move towards self-employment is gradually undermining this.

    It is high time NI was merged into general taxation, adding 3ppts to the basic rate and keeping the higher rate at 45% rather than cutting to 40% (jiggle to make the change neutral). At the same time, just abolish the wage tax (Employers NI) and replace with an unavoidable, undeductable fractional Turnover Tax (less than 0.5% would do it I suspect).

    Also outlaw any politician ever referring to income taxation as being valued in "pence" instead of percentages. Time for some truth.
    Wouldnt a turnover tax have some weird consequences? Some companies work on very fine margins, but have a gigantic turnover.
    Completely agreed a turnover tax is a stupid proposal. Just merge NI in with regular wages and abolish Employers NIC altogether as taxing employers for employing is completely counter-productive. VAT and Corporation Tax should suffice.
  • I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    NIC is a tax on wages not business so it isn't valid at all.
    Your ignorance is remarkable. Class 4 NIC is paid on self employed profits at a rate of 9% on profits between £8,060 and £42,385 and 2% on profits over £42,385...don't comment from a position of ignorance, is my advice
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,422
    Wouldn't food prices soar on a turnover tax ?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Not sure I agree. Australia where AV is actually in place is not particularly kind to third parties in its lower house.

    But to go back to your other post FPTP was endorsed two to one versus what it was put against. That's as much an endorsement as it's possible to get to date. Just as if the SNP wins Holyrood they can have a second bite at an independence referendum if a party in favour of reform gets into office in Westminster then we could get another referendum. But there's no clear appetite for it from the public that only recently rejected overwhelmingly the change that was offered.

    The real shame is how your determined anti-democratic agenda is hidden behind such obvious straw men and constructed lies.

    Just admit the reason you want FPTP, to promote absolute majorites based on tiny vote shares which will generally favour the less divided right.
    No I don't. I support FPTP because it works. Left versus Right has nothing to do with it, many PR nations had more right wing governments than ours under Brown with FPTP notoriously biased against the Tories but as much as I detested Brown's government I never once wavered in supporting FPTP.

    Whether it works for us sometimes or against us sometimes, the simple thing is that it works and it is in my eyes by far the fairest system of all.

    Though in England Labour got 88% of the left wing parties vote in 2015 while the Tories got 75% of the right wing parties vote. So how is the left more divided?
    Arguably the Blair and Brown governments were elected on a right wing platform.

    But your figures are also, as usual, lies. Labour got 71% of the Left vote in England.
  • I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    NIC is a tax on wages not business so it isn't valid at all.
    Your ignorance is remarkable. Class 4 NIC is paid on self employed profits at a rate of 9% on profits between £8,060 and £42,385 and 2% on profits over £42,385...don't comment from a position of ignorance, is my advice
    Because self-employed profits are the self-employed individuals wages.
  • I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    NIC is a tax on wages not business so it isn't valid at all.
    Your ignorance is remarkable. Class 4 NIC is paid on self employed profits at a rate of 9% on profits between £8,060 and £42,385 and 2% on profits over £42,385...don't comment from a position of ignorance, is my advice
    Because self-employed profits are the self-employed individuals wages.
    You're out of your depth here, pal
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    They are not an employee of a company. If they are in business, then as an employer they will be paying NI, but if thy don't employ anybody, why should they be treated as if they are?
    They will be paying income tax on the rental income.
    I bet you support IR35 too...
    You bet I support IR35...it's an abuse of the system designed to avoid paying the fair amount of tax that finances our piblic services. Yes, they will be paying tax but why not make that income NICable?
    IR35, in all but a handful of cases, is a wholly stupid piece of legislation. It has probably cost more to enforce than it has raised.
    I have been IR35'ed, and after a lengthy "review" was deemed outside of the net.

    Regarding rental income, there are changes afoot that could ease you concerns, see some of the examples linked here:
    http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/article/huge-tax-bills-ahead-landlords/591330?cx_tag=clbu1
  • Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Not sure I agree. Australia where AV is actually in place is not particularly kind to third parties in its lower house.

    But to go back to your other post FPTP was endorsed two to one versus what it was put against. That's as much an endorsement as it's possible to get to date. Just as if the SNP wins Holyrood they can have a second bite at an independence referendum if a party in favour of reform gets into office in Westminster then we could get another referendum. But there's no clear appetite for it from the public that only recently rejected overwhelmingly the change that was offered.

    The real shame is how your determined anti-democratic agenda is hidden behind such obvious straw men and constructed lies.

    Just admit the reason you want FPTP, to promote absolute majorites based on tiny vote shares which will generally favour the less divided right.
    No I don't. I support FPTP because it works. Left versus Right has nothing to do with it, many PR nations had more right wing governments than ours under Brown with FPTP notoriously biased against the Tories but as much as I detested Brown's government I never once wavered in supporting FPTP.

    Whether it works for us sometimes or against us sometimes, the simple thing is that it works and it is in my eyes by far the fairest system of all.

    Though in England Labour got 88% of the left wing parties vote in 2015 while the Tories got 75% of the right wing parties vote. So how is the left more divided?
    Arguably the Blair and Brown governments were elected on a right wing platform.

    But your figures are also, as usual, lies. Labour got 71% of the Left vote in England.
    Wrong: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results/england

    Left
    Labour: 31.6
    Greens: 4.2
    TUSC: 0.1

    Total: 35.9%

    Labour 31.6/35.9 = 88.0%

    Right
    Tories: 41.0
    UKIP: 14.1

    Total: 55.1

    Tories: 41.0/54.1 = 74.4%
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    NIC is a tax on wages not business so it isn't valid at all.
    Your ignorance is remarkable. Class 4 NIC is paid on self employed profits at a rate of 9% on profits between £8,060 and £42,385 and 2% on profits over £42,385...don't comment from a position of ignorance, is my advice

    The key here is "self-employed".
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited October 2015
    Sorry if already posted ....

    seeing breaking news items saying Ashcroft in hospital intensive care with renal failure

    Lord Ashcroft 'in intensive care for 18 days after suffering from renal failure, septic shock, liver and kidney failure'

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3279780/Lord-Ashcroft-intensive-care-18-days-suffering-renal-failure-septic-shock-liver-kidney-failure.html#ixzz3p2q6Qh4N
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    Nothing on Sky though??
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    notme said:

    Dair said:

    I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    National Insurance is a remarkably stupid, highly regressive tax which creates ridiculous disincentives. Purely because it's easy to collect and hard to avoid. However, the change and move towards self-employment is gradually undermining this.

    It is high time NI was merged into general taxation, adding 3ppts to the basic rate and keeping the higher rate at 45% rather than cutting to 40% (jiggle to make the change neutral). At the same time, just abolish the wage tax (Employers NI) and replace with an unavoidable, undeductable fractional Turnover Tax (less than 0.5% would do it I suspect).

    Also outlaw any politician ever referring to income taxation as being valued in "pence" instead of percentages. Time for some truth.
    Wouldnt a turnover tax have some weird consequences? Some companies work on very fine margins, but have a gigantic turnover.
    I'm suggesting that it be balanced to be revenue neutral (on introduction) with the current cost of Employers NI. The only sector where you could argue that they face an above average expose, is one where the companies are large compared to their wage bill and that wage bill is concentrated at the high end, above the NI cap.

    The only industry which really fits the bill as being exposed to this change is the Banking Industry.

    Who have actually had such a tax imposted on them for the last few years.
  • I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    NIC is a tax on wages not business so it isn't valid at all.
    Your ignorance is remarkable. Class 4 NIC is paid on self employed profits at a rate of 9% on profits between £8,060 and £42,385 and 2% on profits over £42,385...don't comment from a position of ignorance, is my advice
    Because self-employed profits are the self-employed individuals wages.
    You're out of your depth here, pal
    You're right, you should never argue with stupid people, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I concede to your experience.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Pulpstar said:

    Wouldn't food prices soar on a turnover tax ?

    Actually the opposite.

    If you balance the Turnover Tax to be revenue neutral to current Employers NI then businesses such as supermarkets - with a larger than average number of low wage employees heavily exposed to NI - would potentially be net beneficiaries.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Not sure I agree. Australia where AV is actually in place is not particularly kind to third parties in its lower house.

    But to go back to your other post FPTP was endorsed two to one versus what it was put against. That's as much an endorsement as it's possible to get to date. Just as if the SNP wins Holyrood they can have a second bite at an independence referendum if a party in favour of reform gets into office in Westminster then we could get another referendum. But there's no clear appetite for it from the public that only recently rejected overwhelmingly the change that was offered.

    The real shame is how your determined anti-democratic agenda is hidden behind such obvious straw men and constructed lies.

    Just admit the reason you want FPTP, to promote absolute majorites based on tiny vote shares which will generally favour the less divided right.
    No I don't. I support FPTP because it works. Left versus Right has nothing to do with it, many PR nations had more right wing governments than ours under Brown with FPTP notoriously biased against the Tories but as much as I detested Brown's government I never once wavered in supporting FPTP.

    Whether it works for us sometimes or against us sometimes, the simple thing is that it works and it is in my eyes by far the fairest system of all.

    Though in England Labour got 88% of the left wing parties vote in 2015 while the Tories got 75% of the right wing parties vote. So how is the left more divided?
    Arguably the Blair and Brown governments were elected on a right wing platform.

    But your figures are also, as usual, lies. Labour got 71% of the Left vote in England.
    Wrong: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results/england

    Left
    Labour: 31.6
    Greens: 4.2
    TUSC: 0.1

    Total: 35.9%

    Labour 31.6/35.9 = 88.0%

    Right
    Tories: 41.0
    UKIP: 14.1

    Total: 55.1

    Tories: 41.0/54.1 = 74.4%
    You've forgotten the Liberals in the Left column.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,095
    Hillary gets a boost from the first Democratic debate

    CNN/ORC- Democratic Primary
    Clinton 45% (42%)
    Sanders 29% (24%)
    Biden 18% (22%)
    Webb 1% (0%)
    Chafee 0% (0%)
    Lessig 0% (–)
    O’Malley 0% (1%)

    Second Choice
    Biden 36%
    Clinton 25%
    Sanders 21%
    Chafee 4%
    O’Malley 4%
    Webb 1%
    Lessig 0%

    No Biden in race
    Clinton 56% (57%)
    Sanders 33% (28%)
    Webb 2% (0%)
    O’Malley 1% (2%)
    Chafee 0% (0%)
    Lessig 0% (–)

    CNN/ORC- General Election
    vs. Clinton
    Carson 48% (51%)
    Clinton 47% (46%)

    Clinton 50% (48%)
    Trump 45% (48%)

    vs. Sanders
    Carson 48%
    Sanders 46%

    Sanders 53%
    Trump 44%

    vs. Biden
    Biden 52% (47%)
    Carson 44% (50%)

    Biden 53% (54%)
    Trump 43% (44%)

    http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2462140-debate-democrats.html#document/p2
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Not sure I agree. Australia where AV is actually in place is not particularly kind to third parties in its lower house.

    But to go back to your other post FPTP was endorsed two to one versus what it was put against. That's as much an endorsement as it's possible to get to date. Just as if the SNP wins Holyrood they can have a second bite at an independence referendum if a party in favour of reform gets into office in Westminster then we could get another referendum. But there's no clear appetite for it from the public that only recently rejected overwhelmingly the change that was offered.

    The real shame is how your determined anti-democratic agenda is hidden behind such obvious straw men and constructed lies.

    Just admit the reason you want FPTP, to promote absolute majorites based on tiny vote shares which will generally favour the less divided right.
    No I don't. I support FPTP because it works. Left versus Right has nothing to do with it, many PR nations had more right wing governments than ours under Brown with FPTP notoriously biased against the Tories but as much as I detested Brown's government I never once wavered in supporting FPTP.

    Whether it works for us sometimes or against us sometimes, the simple thing is that it works and it is in my eyes by far the fairest system of all.

    Though in England Labour got 88% of the left wing parties vote in 2015 while the Tories got 75% of the right wing parties vote. So how is the left more divided?
    Arguably the Blair and Brown governments were elected on a right wing platform.

    But your figures are also, as usual, lies. Labour got 71% of the Left vote in England.
    Wrong: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results/england

    Left
    Labour: 31.6
    Greens: 4.2
    TUSC: 0.1

    Total: 35.9%

    Labour 31.6/35.9 = 88.0%

    Right
    Tories: 41.0
    UKIP: 14.1

    Total: 55.1

    Tories: 41.0/54.1 = 74.4%
    You've forgotten the Liberals in the Left column.
    including the orange bookers?
  • I know all you Tory PBers are fixated with reducing the deficit so why not tackle a most unfair tax advantage enjoyed by a significant number of people - that being the fact that individuals who derive their income from letting properties, often many properties, pay no national insurance on those profits. Why not levy a tax equivalent to Class 4 NIC and exclude capital gains tax exemption from gains made on let properties.

    Why should they pay NIC?

    If they are neither an employer or employee of a company?
    It's not why should they...it's why shouldn't they?. An individual with five properties deriving income and managing those properties is as much a business as any other person who rents out equipment or similar
    They are not an employee of a company. If they are in business, then as an employer they will be paying NI, but if thy don't employ anybody, why should they be treated as if they are?
    They will be paying income tax on the rental income.
    I bet you support IR35 too...
    You bet I support IR35...it's an abuse of the system designed to avoid paying the fair amount of tax that finances our piblic services. Yes, they will be paying tax but why not make that income NICable?
    IR35, in all but a handful of cases, is a wholly stupid piece of legislation. It has probably cost more to enforce than it has raised.
    I have been IR35'ed, and after a lengthy "review" was deemed outside of the net.

    Regarding rental income, there are changes afoot that could ease you concerns, see some of the examples linked here:
    http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/article/huge-tax-bills-ahead-landlords/591330?cx_tag=clbu1
    It all goes back to Gordon Brown's introduction of the 0% CT ban on the first £10,000 profits. I have often thought of penning a FOI request to establish how many billions that stupidity cost the nation. It resulted in every Tom, Dick and Harry incorporating partnerships and eliminating tax liabilities completely for vey many
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    New Thread
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,994
    edited October 2015
    Doddy

    "Another replay demanded by Scotland...just like the Indy Ref..man up.."

    Very disappointing to hear Gavin Hastings showing such a lack of sportsmanship on the news channels today. I've met him and worked with his brother Scott. Both very nice and the last people you'd expect to behave like adolescent Paul Gasgoines
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Lord Ashcroft seriously ill apparently.

    Come again?
    Guido FawkesVerified account ‏@GuidoFawkes 5 mins5 minutes ago London, England
    Breaking: @LordAshcroft had renal failure and septic shock, liver failure and kidney failure on September 24. 18 days in intensive care.
    God. Very sad news.

    I really worry about Lord Ashcroft - he seems like he's let a 5-year old grievance eat him up from inside.

    I hope he gets better, and that they're unrelated, but sometimes in life you really do have to let go. Or you do end up digging those two graves.
    He's reported as being 'out of danger'. Yep maybe it's festered. Though he seems to live a good life going by the photos of various views he posts on his travels.
    He's just tweeted an Opinium poll?
    If he had 18 days in intensive care from sep 24, he will be up to tweeting now I guess
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,533

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LucyJones said:

    Any mathematicians around?

    What is (8 * 8) plus (8 + 8)?
    This is the exact wording from my 9-year-old daughter's homework. She gave the answer 80, which is what I get - but it has been marked wrong. Twice.

    Am I wrong, or is the teacher wrong?

    Yes, the teacher is wrong:

    (8 * 8) plus (8 +8) is
    (64) plus (16)

    No ifs, no buts.
    Bodmas ^_~ indeed it is 80.

    What does yr daughter's teacher reckon ?
    I did the same homework with my Grandson recently, we got 80 as well and just confirmed with him that it was marked as correct.
    It is not as if it is a difficult one , even for a 9 year old. Pretty poor teacher.
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