Truss vs Patel would be my favoured contest from a non betting pov.
You private sexual fantasies should really stay private, Mr. Star.
Well it's all very confusing Mr L, personally I can't quite make up my mind which gender I want to be today.
I may plump for scottish.
You may want to plump for Innuit, if you want more gender choices. The Inuit have a tripartite system in which some individuals, men or women, straddle the social frontier between the sexes/genders.
Waitress in one of the local pubs is part Inuit, she says.
could be a bloke
Better looking standard of “bloke” then than Thailand’s ladyboys. Don’t know if a more expert opinion is about today.
Processing centres exceeded capacity weeks ago. Local authorities are struggling to find housing, since temporary tent cities will not suffice in winter. The government of Hamburg has begun seizing empty office buildings to house refugees, raising constitutional questions. Berlin and Bremen are considering similar measures. Schools are struggling to integrate refugee children who speak no German.
Fights have broken out inside overcrowded asylum centres, often between young men of different ethnic or religious groups. There have been more arson attacks on migrant centres. In Dresden, a xenophobic movement called Pegida is growing again: about 9,000 protested this Monday against refugees.
That's a surprisingly poor poll for Sadiq Khan. I would have expected him to be considerably further ahead than that, particularly as in effect for many voters the poll is effectively "generic Conservative" vs "generic Labour".
Mr. Observer, Labour should hope so. If Khan promotes ethnic quotas for workplaces whilst millions of migrants flood the EU and Corbyn's advocating an open door, that may not necessarily be to Labour's advantage.
I am inclined to think that having such a position as the post Brexit preference for the Leave campaign is fairly crucial. I ghink a clear statement that EEA membership is the vision of Leave would go a long at to convincing both business and the general public.
This is why I found the Vote Leave website so interesting on this point - they don't mention immigration at all, or at least not prominently. So it looks to me as though they agree with you on this.
Conversely, the Leave.EU website features 'control of our borders' quite prominently. It's also done in a more populist style.
How much it matters having two dfferent campaigns is not clear to me, but only one of them is going to get the official designation as the Leave campaign group.
I think in the end that decision may well determine the outcome of the referendum.
I don't envy the person(s) who has to make that decision.
Choosing the non-Farage option seems like a win all round for Leave.
It would limit Farage as the face of Leave, leaving that position open for someone more moderate and less divisive. It would still allow UKIP to fight the campaign on the streets and out in the country. I don't believe Farage is going to turn round and refuse to campaign just because his team didn't get the official nod.
Farage is an immensly powerful asset if he gets the sting removed from him. The sting is leadership - the idea of Nigel as a potential PM. Take that away from him and people will recall they actually quite agree with much of what he says, as in the Clegg debates.
Having said that, the next leader must be prepared to undergo very similar media villification, and potentially end up with their image just as tarnished - it goes with the territory.
Maybe this was "The good old days", but when Carswell won the by election last year, I was in the pub in Clacton at 2 or 3am when he and Farage returned from the count. Carswell gave a quite moving tribute to Farage for dealing with the abuse hurled at him over the last 20 years saying he had absolutely no idea how spiteful it was until he joined the party and saw for himself. Maybe their relationship has deteriorated now, but whoever takes over will get the same shit..
Farage is immensely popular with UKIP voters, I would use him to rally the troops, get people leafleting etc... forget what the haters say, I have campaigned for UKIP and the punters love him... yesterdays IPSOS MORI had his rating with kippers at 88%
Has the case actually been dropped, or just dropped in the sense that the alleged perpetrator has died so is no longer being pursued? I really don't see what Watson has done wrong here. Was he supposed to keep the reports to himself?
I have no time for this 'nonce-finder general' public backlash meme that seems popular here and in the Daily Mail. Do we really think the public are going to rally behind people like Harvey Proctor in righteous indignation? Let's be serious.
Maybe this was "The good old days", but when Carswell won the by election last year, I was in the pub in Clacton at 2 or 3am when he and Farage returned from the count. Carswell gave a quite moving tribute to Farage for dealing with the abuse hurled at him over the last 20 years saying he had absolutely no idea how spiteful it was until he joined the party and saw for himself. Maybe their relationship has deteriorated now, but whoever takes over will get the same shit..
Farage is immensely popular with UKIP voters, I would use him to rally the troops, get people leafleting etc... forget what the haters say, I have campaigned for UKIP and the punters love him... yesterdays IPSOS MORI had his rating with kippers at 88%
Anecdote + Polling = Kryptonite to the haters!
I don't disagree with you and I don't think you disagree with me. Nigel would still exist and hopefully be active and influential in the party. He just wouldn't be carrying the whole show.
On a side note, I don't trust Carswell or Hannan. I admire them both, but don't trust them.
Why is the reporting on the NHS deficits completely failing to mention the abolition of PCTs by Lansley's reform bill or indeed any mention of the reforms at all?
The NHS trusts were running in the black prior to the abolition of PCTs in April 2013 and then immediately started running deficits
Has the case actually been dropped, or just dropped in the sense that the alleged perpetrator has died so is no longer being pursued? I really don't see what Watson has done wrong here. Was he supposed to keep the reports to himself?
I have no time for this 'nonce-finder general' public backlash meme that seems popular here and in the Daily Mail. Do we really think the public are going to rally behind people like Harvey Proctor in righteous indignation? Let's be serious.
As far as I am concerned, he interfered in the investigatory process and abused Parliamentary Privilege. That is completely unacceptable from any politician of any persuasion.
It was self-serving, publicity-grabbing grandstanding. Nasty.
Has the case actually been dropped, or just dropped in the sense that the alleged perpetrator has died so is no longer being pursued? I really don't see what Watson has done wrong here. Was he supposed to keep the reports to himself?
I have no time for this 'nonce-finder general' public backlash meme that seems popular here and in the Daily Mail. Do we really think the public are going to rally behind people like Harvey Proctor in righteous indignation? Let's be serious.
The case was dropped six months before Brittan died but the Met didn't bother to tell him. His brother thinks the strain may have hastened him to his grave.
Watson has provided a public service as some of his information has led to convictions.
However, he has undermined his good work by focusing on Tory accusations while ignoring Labour ones.
As for Harvey Proctor, should we just declare open season on elderly gay men - pouf/paedophile nudge nudge wink wink?
Has the case actually been dropped, or just dropped in the sense that the alleged perpetrator has died so is no longer being pursued? I really don't see what Watson has done wrong here. Was he supposed to keep the reports to himself?
I have no time for this 'nonce-finder general' public backlash meme that seems popular here and in the Daily Mail. Do we really think the public are going to rally behind people like Harvey Proctor in righteous indignation? Let's be serious.
Brittan, had no case to answer. He died not knowing he had been cleared despite the Met, knowing there was no case before his death. Watson is a skid mark on the sheets of life and politics would be a better place without him.
Has the case actually been dropped, or just dropped in the sense that the alleged perpetrator has died so is no longer being pursued? I really don't see what Watson has done wrong here. Was he supposed to keep the reports to himself?
I have no time for this 'nonce-finder general' public backlash meme that seems popular here and in the Daily Mail. Do we really think the public are going to rally behind people like Harvey Proctor in righteous indignation? Let's be serious.
The proper thing to do if you are told of allegations of serious crimes is to refer these to the proper authorities for investigation. The criticisms of Watson are that he used these allegations in a party political way i.e. to suggest that Tories in the Establishment were both guilty of such crimes and of a cover up to protect their mates. (And the way that Watson went after Murdoch over phone hacking but was silent over the Mirror lends some support to the suggestion that Watson was as interested in party advantage as in justice.) And that - for no good reason - he abused Parliamentary privilege to spread the allegations.
People are innocent until proven guilty. This is an important principle and people who are accused of all crimes, particularly ones as vile as these, are entitled to have this principle respected, particularly by lawmakers.
The danger with grandstanding about these matters is that justice is not served because those involved are too busy pursuing other agendas or looking over their shoulders to make sure they don't get criticised by some self-important booby. There are times when the police and the lawyers and the justice system don't do their job properly - see, for instance, the Birmingham 6 and related cases. Chris Mullin and Sir John Farr: the two MPs who campaigned on this are the model for how to do this. Not Watson and his Daily Mailish conspiratorial ("they're out to get me") "Look at me" approach.
looking at the apparent NHS financial shortfall..it would suggest we are the sickest nation in the Western world or we have the worst hospital managers in the world...or maybe it is both..
Maybe this was "The good old days", but when Carswell won the by election last year, I was in the pub in Clacton at 2 or 3am when he and Farage returned from the count. Carswell gave a quite moving tribute to Farage for dealing with the abuse hurled at him over the last 20 years saying he had absolutely no idea how spiteful it was until he joined the party and saw for himself. Maybe their relationship has deteriorated now, but whoever takes over will get the same shit..
Farage is immensely popular with UKIP voters, I would use him to rally the troops, get people leafleting etc... forget what the haters say, I have campaigned for UKIP and the punters love him... yesterdays IPSOS MORI had his rating with kippers at 88%
Anecdote + Polling = Kryptonite to the haters!
I don't disagree with you and I don't think you disagree with me. Nigel would still exist and hopefully be active and influential in the party. He just wouldn't be carrying the whole show.
On a side note, I don't trust Carswell or Hannan. I admire them both, but don't trust them.
Whereas I trust them perhaps more than any other politician active today. They gave both made clear that their goal is reform rather than high office and have also both made no bones about their beliefs even whilst acknowledging they do not expect them to necessarily be popular with the public at large.
They are great examples of how politicians would ideally conduct themselves.
it is your fault that I have been saying Farage should not front the campaign and should be working hard under the radar but you argue with me as if I have been saying he should front the campaign though
I have never thought he should and never said he should - that's where you're going wrong
No I have repeatedly actually agreed with you when you've said that he should be, and furthermore agreed that Farage in the past was saying that he should not be; but I've been saying that Farage is now pushing to have him and his ilk (Leave.EU) at the forefront of the campaign. I have also said that if Farage/Leave.EU etc is at the forefront then that materially changes the campaign.
Farage is Marmite and the campaign needs to be led by Apple Pie.
I am inclined to think that having such a position as the post Brexit preference for the Leave campaign is fairly crucial. I ghink a clear statement that EEA membership is the vision of Leave would go a long at to convincing both business and the general public.
This is why I found the Vote Leave website so interesting on this point - they don't mention immigration at all, or at least not prominently. So it looks to me as though they agree with you on this.
Conversely, the Leave.EU website features 'control of our borders' quite prominently. It's also done in a more populist style.
How much it matters having two dfferent campaigns is not clear to me, but only one of them is going to get the official designation as the Leave campaign group.
I think in the end that decision may well determine the outcome of the referendum.
I don't envy the person(s) who has to make that decision.
Choosing the non-Farage option seems like a win all round for Leave.
It would limit Farage as the face of Leave, leaving that position open for someone more moderate and less divisive. It would still allow UKIP to fight the campaign on the streets and out in the country. I don't believe Farage is going to turn round and refuse to campaign just because his team didn't get the official nod.
Farage is an immensly powerful asset if he gets the sting removed from him. The sting is leadership - the idea of Nigel as a potential PM. Take that away from him and people will recall they actually quite agree with much of what he says, as in the Clegg debates.
Having said that, the next leader must be prepared to undergo very similar media villification, and potentially end up with their image just as tarnished - it goes with the territory.
Farage's problems are all of his own making. Just ask the countless dedicated Eurosceptics he has driven out if the party.
It might help if they actually bombed ISIS, rather than the FSA...
I love how you can take seriously an article that uses this:
'The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which monitors the fighting on the ground, said there had been no significant advances by government forces backed by allied militia in areas where ground offensives were launched this week. "It's back and forth," said Rami Abdulrahman, director of the Observatory'
Do you realise the 'Syrian Observatory for Human Rights' is one man promoting the insurgency from a council flat in Coventry? Even the reporter seems to underline the irony by calling him a 'director' - no doubt they find it very amusing.
As for bombing the FSA, an organisation that seems to exist merely as a conduit for US-supplied munitions to get to ISIS, the Russians have asked the US to identify them so that bombing strikes can avoid them, and offered any patriotic FSA elements the opportunity to join their coalition. I'm not sure you can say fairer than that - if it's running around in a mask blowing people up, it's a hard to pinpoint it as a 'moderate'.
I also can't help but note that recent MSM coverage is lacking any mention of Jabhat Al Nusra - Al Qaeda's branch in Syria, whom the US designates as a terrorist group (unlike ISIS). How many of these 'non-ISIS' targets that they are complaining about are Al Nusra - a more than valid target one would think?
As for how well they're doing, we'll see won't we? They've got 13 months to prove themselves as inneffectual as the 'coalition'.
it is your fault that I have been saying Farage should not front the campaign and should be working hard under the radar but you argue with me as if I have been saying he should front the campaign though
I have never thought he should and never said he should - that's where you're going wrong
No I have repeatedly actually agreed with you when you've said that he should be, and furthermore agreed that Farage in the past was saying that he should not be; but I've been saying that Farage is now pushing to have him and his ilk (Leave.EU) at the forefront of the campaign. I have also said that if Farage/Leave.EU etc is at the forefront then that materially changes the campaign.
Farage is Marmite and the campaign needs to be led by Apple Pie.
You mean "Should not be" I suppose?
Yeah I agree with the Marmite and Apple Pie line, but I believe Farage when he says (as on This Week) that he doesn't want to lead the campaign, even if Leave.EU are the designated group
I've no doubt the two groups will work together in some way, even if it is to delegate who goes where.. I don't really care who leads it as long as we get out.
I think Farage rubs too many people up the wrong way, Carswell is too intellectual to appeal to the types who love Farage (3.6m UKIP voters) and no Tories are allowed are they?
I agree w Farage it should be a non politician who appeals to the masses.. so I say PORTILLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It might help if they actually bombed ISIS, rather than the FSA...
I love how you can take seriously an article that uses this:
'The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which monitors the fighting on the ground, said there had been no significant advances by government forces backed by allied militia in areas where ground offensives were launched this week. "It's back and forth," said Rami Abdulrahman, director of the Observatory'
Do you realise the 'Syrian Observatory for Human Rights' is one man promoting the insurgency from a council flat in Coventry? Even the reporter seems to underline the irony by calling him a 'director' - no doubt they find it very amusing.
As for bombing the FSA, an organisation that seems to exist merely as a conduit for US-supplied munitions to get to ISIS, the Russians have asked the US to identify them so that bombing strikes can avoid them, and offered any patriotic FSA elements the opportunity to join their coalition. I'm not sure you can say fairer than that - if it's running around in a mask blowing people up, it's a hard to pinpoint it as a 'moderate'.
I also can't help but note that recent MSM coverage is lacking any mention of Jabhat Al Nusra - Al Qaeda's branch in Syria, whom the US designates as a terrorist group (unlike ISIS). How many of these 'non-ISIS' targets that they are complaining about are Al Nusra - a more than valid target one would think?
As for how well they're doing, we'll see won't we? They've got 13 months to prove themselves as inneffectual as the 'coalition'.
The non-ISIS rebels have held out in Aleppo for months, and suddenly now they're collapsing... to an ISIS take-over. The 'patriotic' FSA elements are supposed to join the coalition with Assad that wants to wipe them out? Seriously, how do you believe this stuff? Do you start with the principle that Putin is always in the right and work backwards from there?
I seem to recall that Mike has sometimes asked for assistance in funding the site. I'd like to help in a modest way. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
I am inclined to think that having such a position as the post Brexit preference for the Leave campaign is fairly crucial. I ghink a clear statement that EEA membership is the vision of Leave would go a long at to convincing both business and the general public.
Conversely, the Leave.EU website features 'control of our borders' quite prominently. It's also done in a more populist style.
How much it matters having two dfferent campaigns is not clear to me, but only one of them is going to get the official designation as the Leave campaign group.
I think in the end that decision may well determine the outcome of the referendum.
I don't envy the person(s) who has to make that decision.
Choosing the non-Farage option seems like a win all round for Leave.
It would limit Farage as the face of Leave, leaving that position open for someone more moderate and less divisive. It would still allow UKIP to fight the campaign on the streets and out in the country. I don't believe Farage is going to turn round and refuse to campaign just because his team didn't get the official nod.
Farage is an immensly powerful asset if he gets the sting removed from him. The sting is leadership - the idea of Nigel as a potential PM. Take that away from him and people will recall they actually quite agree with much of what he says, as in the Clegg debates.
Having said that, the next leader must be prepared to undergo very similar media villification, and potentially end up with their image just as tarnished - it goes with the territory.
Farage's problems are all of his own making. Just ask the countless dedicated Eurosceptics he has driven out if the party.
No offence Richard, but you sound like a Corbynite slagging Tony Blair in 1996.. for all your well made arguments about EEA etc, the average man on the street doesn't really understand or give a flying about that.. Farage has made UKIP more popular than ever, and raised awareness of the EU in a way no one else has before with his beating of Clegg and winning of the Euros
You seem to think that is dirty and prefer the purity of 3% and under in the good old days, when you should be grateful that your extreme minority view(because most people are ignorant of the facts) of the fiscal wotnots of the EU has been carried into prominence with a decent, better than ever, chance of leaving
So what if its because people dislike immigration rather than object to CAP and fishing quotas? Just be happy we might leave
It might help if they actually bombed ISIS, rather than the FSA...
I love how you can take seriously an article that uses this:
'The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which monitors the fighting on the ground, said there had been no significant advances by government forces backed by allied militia in areas where ground offensives were launched this week. "It's back and forth," said Rami Abdulrahman, director of the Observatory'
Do you realise the 'Syrian Observatory for Human Rights' is one man promoting the insurgency from a council flat in Coventry? Even the reporter seems to underline the irony by calling him a 'director' - no doubt they find it very amusing.
(snip)
Oddly, you do not seem to put the same rigour into the sources you use in your claims: one 'media' outlet you use belongs to a friend of Assad, and another is a blog of a woman operating (I think you said) from Australia.
"There is a lack of separation in progressive politics between the respectable left and the communist left. Or put another way, the entire political space on the left is permeable, and social democrats view communists as in some vague sense 'on the same side' as themselves (though the feeling rarely extends the other way). Consider the following: no Tory MP will march through Trafalgar Square alongside far-right thugs holding aloft portraits of the Fuhrer; yet Jeremy Corbyn can do the same with communists and portraits of Stalin."
And "Self-righteous people can often grant themselves licence to behave appallingly – they are after all on the right side of 'history', whereas those they are assailing are holding progress back."
Maybe this was "The good old days", but when Carswell won the by election last year, I was in the pub in Clacton at 2 or 3am when he and Farage returned from the count. Carswell gave a quite moving tribute to Farage for dealing with the abuse hurled at him over the last 20 years saying he had absolutely no idea how spiteful it was until he joined the party and saw for himself. Maybe their relationship has deteriorated now, but whoever takes over will get the same shit..
Farage is immensely popular with UKIP voters, I would use him to rally the troops, get people leafleting etc... forget what the haters say, I have campaigned for UKIP and the punters love him... yesterdays IPSOS MORI had his rating with kippers at 88%
Anecdote + Polling = Kryptonite to the haters!
I don't disagree with you and I don't think you disagree with me. Nigel would still exist and hopefully be active and influential in the party. He just wouldn't be carrying the whole show.
On a side note, I don't trust Carswell or Hannan. I admire them both, but don't trust them.
Whereas I trust them perhaps more than any other politician active today. They gave both made clear that their goal is reform rather than high office and have also both made no bones about their beliefs even whilst acknowledging they do not expect them to necessarily be popular with the public at large.
They are great examples of how politicians would ideally conduct themselves.
Farage is an immensly powerful asset if he gets the sting removed from him. The sting is leadership - the idea of Nigel as a potential PM. Take that away from him and people will recall they actually quite agree with much of what he says, as in the Clegg debates.
Having said that, the next leader must be prepared to undergo very similar media villification, and potentially end up with their image just as tarnished - it goes with the territory.
Farage's problems are all of his own making. Just ask the countless dedicated Eurosceptics he has driven out if the party.
No offence Richard, but you sound like a Corbynite slagging Tony Blair in 1996.. for all your well made arguments about EEA etc, the average man on the street doesn't really understand or give a flying about that.. Farage has made UKIP more popular than ever, and raised awareness of the EU in a way no one else has before with his beating of Clegg and winning of the Euros
You seem to think that is dirty and prefer the purity of 3% and under in the good old days, when you should be grateful that your extreme minority view(because most people are ignorant of the facts) of the fiscal wotnots of the EU has been carried into prominence with a decent, better than ever, chance of leaving
So what if its because people dislike immigration rather than object to CAP and fishing quotas? Just be happy we might leave
No sorry Richard is right and you are wrong. Farage is no Teflon Tony with mass appeal across the entire electorate, Farage is a purist true-believer type who inspires strong belief in a small but vocal section like Corbyn.
Appealing to 12% of the electorate may get the issue on the agenda, but there is no more need to get the issue on the agenda. The referendum is happening there is no more need to ensure a referendum happens.
The job of making sure that one issue that nobody else wants to talk about stays talked about requires one set of talents.
The job of winning over 50% of the votes requires an entirely different set of talents.
No offence Richard, but you sound like a Corbynite slagging Tony Blair in 1996.. for all your well made arguments about EEA etc, the average man on the street doesn't really understand or give a flying about that.. Farage has made UKIP more popular than ever, and raised awareness of the EU in a way no one else has before with his beating of Clegg and winning of the Euros
You seem to think that is dirty and prefer the purity of 3% and under in the good old days, when you should be grateful that your extreme minority view(because most people are ignorant of the facts) of the fiscal wotnots of the EU has been carried into prominence with a decent, better than ever, chance of leaving
So what if its because people dislike immigration rather than object to CAP and fishing quotas? Just be happy we might leave
The man in the street is going to be bombarded with propaganda backed by the Prime Minister and countless business leaders claiming all manner of disaster if we leave the EU
90% or more of that can be nullified in one stroke if we make it clear the preferred option after leaving is the EEA. But Farage will not do that and so becomes a liability rather than an asset.
UKIP won 3.8 million votes at the GE. Show me where the other 10 to 15 million are going to come from under Nigel plans and I might start taking him seriously.
No offence Richard, but you sound like a Corbynite slagging Tony Blair in 1996.. for all your well made arguments about EEA etc, the average man on the street doesn't really understand or give a flying about that.. Farage has made UKIP more popular than ever, and raised awareness of the EU in a way no one else has before with his beating of Clegg and winning of the Euros
You seem to think that is dirty and prefer the purity of 3% and under in the good old days, when you should be grateful that your extreme minority view(because most people are ignorant of the facts) of the fiscal wotnots of the EU has been carried into prominence with a decent, better than ever, chance of leaving
So what if its because people dislike immigration rather than object to CAP and fishing quotas? Just be happy we might leave
The man in the street is going to be bombarded with propaganda backed by the Prime Minister and countless business leaders claiming all manner of disaster if we leave the EU
90% or more of that can be nullified in one stroke if we make it clear the preferred option after leaving is the EEA. But Farage will not do that and so becomes a liability rather than an asset.
UKIP won 3.8 million votes at the GE. Show me where the other 10 to 15 million are going to come from under Nigel plans and I might start taking him seriously.
Comments
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34483681
Goldsmith should beat Khan comfortably.
How many Tory MPs are going to take rattles to PMQs?
Farage is immensely popular with UKIP voters, I would use him to rally the troops, get people leafleting etc... forget what the haters say, I have campaigned for UKIP and the punters love him... yesterdays IPSOS MORI had his rating with kippers at 88%
Anecdote + Polling = Kryptonite to the haters!
I have no time for this 'nonce-finder general' public backlash meme that seems popular here and in the Daily Mail. Do we really think the public are going to rally behind people like Harvey Proctor in righteous indignation? Let's be serious.
Handing it to the police - fine
Creating a media furore under parliamentary privilege - yeah, probably not fine.
On a side note, I don't trust Carswell or Hannan. I admire them both, but don't trust them.
The NHS trusts were running in the black prior to the abolition of PCTs in April 2013 and then immediately started running deficits
It was self-serving, publicity-grabbing grandstanding. Nasty.
Watson has provided a public service as some of his information has led to convictions.
However, he has undermined his good work by focusing on Tory accusations while ignoring Labour ones.
As for Harvey Proctor, should we just declare open season on elderly gay men - pouf/paedophile nudge nudge wink wink?
People are innocent until proven guilty. This is an important principle and people who are accused of all crimes, particularly ones as vile as these, are entitled to have this principle respected, particularly by lawmakers.
The danger with grandstanding about these matters is that justice is not served because those involved are too busy pursuing other agendas or looking over their shoulders to make sure they don't get criticised by some self-important booby. There are times when the police and the lawyers and the justice system don't do their job properly - see, for instance, the Birmingham 6 and related cases. Chris Mullin and Sir John Farr: the two MPs who campaigned on this are the model for how to do this. Not Watson and his Daily Mailish conspiratorial ("they're out to get me") "Look at me" approach.
They are great examples of how politicians would ideally conduct themselves.
Watson's response.
Comments not entirely sympathetic........
Farage is Marmite and the campaign needs to be led by Apple Pie.
'The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which monitors the fighting on the ground, said there had been no significant advances by government forces backed by allied militia in areas where ground offensives were launched this week. "It's back and forth," said Rami Abdulrahman, director of the Observatory'
Do you realise the 'Syrian Observatory for Human Rights' is one man promoting the insurgency from a council flat in Coventry? Even the reporter seems to underline the irony by calling him a 'director' - no doubt they find it very amusing.
As for bombing the FSA, an organisation that seems to exist merely as a conduit for US-supplied munitions to get to ISIS, the Russians have asked the US to identify them so that bombing strikes can avoid them, and offered any patriotic FSA elements the opportunity to join their coalition. I'm not sure you can say fairer than that - if it's running around in a mask blowing people up, it's a hard to pinpoint it as a 'moderate'.
I also can't help but note that recent MSM coverage is lacking any mention of Jabhat Al Nusra - Al Qaeda's branch in Syria, whom the US designates as a terrorist group (unlike ISIS). How many of these 'non-ISIS' targets that they are complaining about are Al Nusra - a more than valid target one would think?
As for how well they're doing, we'll see won't we? They've got 13 months to prove themselves as inneffectual as the 'coalition'.
Yeah I agree with the Marmite and Apple Pie line, but I believe Farage when he says (as on This Week) that he doesn't want to lead the campaign, even if Leave.EU are the designated group
I've no doubt the two groups will work together in some way, even if it is to delegate who goes where.. I don't really care who leads it as long as we get out.
I think Farage rubs too many people up the wrong way, Carswell is too intellectual to appeal to the types who love Farage (3.6m UKIP voters) and no Tories are allowed are they?
I agree w Farage it should be a non politician who appeals to the masses.. so I say PORTILLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://twitter.com/SunNation/status/652408574107328512
You seem to think that is dirty and prefer the purity of 3% and under in the good old days, when you should be grateful that your extreme minority view(because most people are ignorant of the facts) of the fiscal wotnots of the EU has been carried into prominence with a decent, better than ever, chance of leaving
So what if its because people dislike immigration rather than object to CAP and fishing quotas? Just be happy we might leave
But you back 'their' story, so they're fine.
I liked these two quotes:;
"There is a lack of separation in progressive politics between the respectable left and the communist left. Or put another way, the entire political space on the left is permeable, and social democrats view communists as in some vague sense 'on the same side' as themselves (though the feeling rarely extends the other way). Consider the following: no Tory MP will march through Trafalgar Square alongside far-right thugs holding aloft portraits of the Fuhrer; yet Jeremy Corbyn can do the same with communists and portraits of Stalin."
And "Self-righteous people can often grant themselves licence to behave appallingly – they are after all on the right side of 'history', whereas those they are assailing are holding progress back."
new thread
Appealing to 12% of the electorate may get the issue on the agenda, but there is no more need to get the issue on the agenda. The referendum is happening there is no more need to ensure a referendum happens.
The job of making sure that one issue that nobody else wants to talk about stays talked about requires one set of talents.
The job of winning over 50% of the votes requires an entirely different set of talents.
90% or more of that can be nullified in one stroke if we make it clear the preferred option after leaving is the EEA. But Farage will not do that and so becomes a liability rather than an asset.
UKIP won 3.8 million votes at the GE. Show me where the other 10 to 15 million are going to come from under Nigel plans and I might start taking him seriously.