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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A Labour man in a Labour job. What’s not to like about Andr

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    Jonathan said:

    Kids are great. They get you out of your comfort zone, challenge you in every way and stop you getting set in your ways.

    It's worth it for the bath toys alone.

    The best, hardest, most enjoyable, most stressful, most worrying and most wonderful thing I have ever done is be a father. You are never as good as you want to be, never as bad as you think you are. And the hardest thing of all is waving them goodbye as they go out into the big bad world and do all the things that you did when you were their age.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,720
    Jonathan said:

    Kids are great. They get you out of your comfort zone, challenge you in every way and stop you getting set in your ways.

    It's worth it for the bath toys alone.

    You have to have kids for bath toys? Oops.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,386

    Mr. Royale, if you consider it inevitable then decide instead on what price you wish to exact.

    I tried asking for EU withdrawal but she's not sure she can deliver.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Scott_P said:

    @SunNation: The #piggate co-author admits her source "could have been slightly deranged" http://t.co/O09nIv7QJG http://t.co/Pt34359OgA

    And destroys any chance of being considered a journalist. She's a fictional novelist.

    "Speaking at the Cheltenham Literature Festival, Ms Oakeshott told the audience: “I think [the question about burden of proof] rests on a really false premise, which is that things that are written in books need to have the same standard — if you like to use that word — as things that are written in newspapers.”

    She added: “You might just as well say: ‘Well, you couldn’t have put that in Barbie Princess magazine.’

    “Would I have got that story into The Sunday Times? Well, I reckon it probably could have been a diary story, expressed much more euphemistically.”
    Read any biography and you will find unsubstantiated anecdotes. Biography and history are not the same. That everyone is so excited about this is due to the Mail sticking it on the front page and the CCHQ-orchestrated spin against it, all amplified by twitter. A few weeks ago I finally got round to watching Meryl Streep play Mrs Thatcher in The Iron Lady. What was all the fuss about? But it was hugely controversial at the time.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,386

    Jonathan said:

    Kids are great. They get you out of your comfort zone, challenge you in every way and stop you getting set in your ways.

    It's worth it for the bath toys alone.

    You have to have kids for bath toys? Oops.
    I was going to say - I've already got those.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,839

    JEO said:

    Casino_Royale,

    I think it depends on the individual but it is normal for a lot of men. I think it also depends on what your own family background was like. I think people that had very warm and close relationships with their own parents and siblings look forward to it more.

    In terms of what parents say, you need to realise that all parents want to do is talk about their child and how fantastic he is, and how he did this amazing thing yesterday. But we know we come across as boring self-obsessed drones when we do that. So we shield ourselves from that criticism by joking about it being a negative.

    I do think it's right that you wait until you're ready, as there will be the odd occasion you resent your child and you want to minimise that. But it's for sure the best thing I've ever done, and the vast majority of parents who planned their children will say the same.

    Thanks JEO. But you think the choice is up to me?

    We've been married for over 2 years, and my wife is coming up to 32. She is badgering me weekly ;-)
    If it's any help, a friend of mine felt very emotionally detached about having a baby. His wife wanted kids, so they had them. He went to all of the prenatal classes, but didn't really feel involved.

    Until, that is, he held his daughter for the first time. He has described the emotion as smashing him in the face with a twelve-pound sledgehammer. His view on that child changed with that first touch, and he's a superb dad.

    Oh, and if you do decide to have kids, then the National Childcare Trust meetings we went to were brilliant. Not for what we learnt - we'd read most of it already. But for the friends we made with the other couples who were going through exactly the same things as us. They've proved a brilliant support network.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,166
    edited October 2015
    Mr. Royale, you are Mr. Merkel, and I claim five Deutschmarks.

    Edited extra bit: must be off for a while.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,387

    Pulpstar said:

    Tunisian Nationa dialogue quartet awarded Nobel peace prize.

    Glad I dodged the Merkel bet, bookie's paradise that market.

    I had five quid on, but I got my £10 free bets to put on my bookbuilding... may or may not be a loss depending on how I account for it in my thinking.
    If you're not getting back stake, the correct way to use a free bet is on a good long odds punt. Better even than arbing with Betfair an evens shot, value wise. Of course a true 33-1 at 50-1 probably won't win... but you'll have got the value.

    Depends how you think about it as you say :)
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Pulpstar said:

    My better half doesn't have kids. She has horses. They both need their shit clearing out and cost a fortune - horse crap smells alot better than baby poo though ;p.

    Best of luck with the kids, Casino Royale :D

    Thanks. I'll need it ;-)
    There is an old saying.. if you want to give a man a problem, give him a horse.. and it's so true ...irrespective of the joy they give to the owner.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    I'm happy to rehabilitate first time offenders, especially the young, we all make mistakes. But for career criminals aged 30+ there is no point wasting valuable time and resources, throw away the key.

    A friend of mine, ordinarily a liberal type, is serious when he talks of clinical research on long term inmates, as an animal lover he'd prefer to see drugs tested on rapists rather than beagles, I think he has a point.

    You know what the genetics of the beagles are though. Can make a difference. Too many variables in humans.
    No reason not to give it a try, 1000s every year are paid to be clinical research guinea pigs, its how drugs come to the market.

    Good point. On thinking about your post I have a suspicion that I have read somewhere that jail inmates ARE given the opportunity to volunteer for such tests. Somewhere, anyway.
    Its a touchy subject after certain regimes in the past subjected people to all manner of experiments. However a cure for serious disease won't be found without sticking a needle in somebody or something. Given a choice between a beagle and a child killer I'd happily go to the pub with a beagle. Interestingly my pal who suggested this worked with beagles in a lab at a well known pharmaceutical firm, he was adamant as he grew very fond of the dogs.

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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,386

    JEO said:

    Casino_Royale,

    I think it depends on the individual but it is normal for a lot of men. I think it also depends on what your own family background was like. I think people that had very warm and close relationships with their own parents and siblings look forward to it more.

    In terms of what parents say, you need to realise that all parents want to do is talk about their child and how fantastic he is, and how he did this amazing thing yesterday. But we know we come across as boring self-obsessed drones when we do that. So we shield ourselves from that criticism by joking about it being a negative.

    I do think it's right that you wait until you're ready, as there will be the odd occasion you resent your child and you want to minimise that. But it's for sure the best thing I've ever done, and the vast majority of parents who planned their children will say the same.

    Thanks JEO. But you think the choice is up to me?

    We've been married for over 2 years, and my wife is coming up to 32. She is badgering me weekly ;-)
    If it's any help, a friend of mine felt very emotionally detached about having a baby. His wife wanted kids, so they had them. He went to all of the prenatal classes, but didn't really feel involved.

    Until, that is, he held his daughter for the first time. He has described the emotion as smashing him in the face with a twelve-pound sledgehammer. His view on that child changed with that first touch, and he's a superb dad.

    Oh, and if you do decide to have kids, then the National Childcare Trust meetings we went to were brilliant. Not for what we learnt - we'd read most of it already. But for the friends we made with the other couples who were going through exactly the same things as us. They've proved a brilliant support network.
    Cheers JJ.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    watford30 said:

    Witchsmeller Pursuivant under attack:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34484611

    'The BBC has tried to contact Mr Watson but he has not responded.'

    He's probably enjoying a relaxing mini-break with Corbyn.
    More likely thinking and worrying about the Daily Mail headline
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited October 2015


    Thanks. It scares the living daylights out of me. I don't feel remotely qualified or ready. And I don't get enough sleep as it is.

    Kids... hmmm!

    No one is qualified for kids until about 12 months after they have had the first one. After that it gets easier. Much easier.

    Every new child is a total stranger. You do not know them and they do not know you and you all have to get to know each other. They are demanding and you have no way to negotiate with them because there is no way to communicate other than hugs, threats or bribery.

    It does get easier though...

    The first one is a precious bundle that gets watched and checked. When she was asleep and being very quiet and very, very still, I would occasionally prod her with my finger to see if she was still alive. With the second one you just look into the cot and go "Yeah - she's fine". With the first one you worry about everything you feed her. With the second one it is "Eat it or starve kid", etc.

    My life is richer for having both of them even though I was worried about how I would cope and what it would do to me job wise. In the end I changed my job around to allow me much more time with my children because, as they grew up, I wanted to be there with them and sharing in their victories and helping them through the bad times.

    One has now flown the nest and I still worry about her even though she seems to be doing very well. The second one is fledging her wings and I worry even more about her, but I love them both and look forward to sharing the times ahead. For me, it has been well worth it.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The only time I feel that it would be nice to have kids is when I want to see a new cartoon without looking like a weirdo.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    JEO said:

    Casino_Royale,

    I think it depends on the individual but it is normal for a lot of men. I think it also depends on what your own family background was like. I think people that had very warm and close relationships with their own parents and siblings look forward to it more.

    In terms of what parents say, you need to realise that all parents want to do is talk about their child and how fantastic he is, and how he did this amazing thing yesterday. But we know we come across as boring self-obsessed drones when we do that. So we shield ourselves from that criticism by joking about it being a negative.

    I do think it's right that you wait until you're ready, as there will be the odd occasion you resent your child and you want to minimise that. But it's for sure the best thing I've ever done, and the vast majority of parents who planned their children will say the same.

    Thanks JEO. But you think the choice is up to me?

    We've been married for over 2 years, and my wife is coming up to 32. She is badgering me weekly ;-)
    If it's any help, a friend of mine felt very emotionally detached about having a baby. His wife wanted kids, so they had them. He went to all of the prenatal classes, but didn't really feel involved.

    Until, that is, he held his daughter for the first time. He has described the emotion as smashing him in the face with a twelve-pound sledgehammer. His view on that child changed with that first touch, and he's a superb dad.

    Oh, and if you do decide to have kids, then the National Childcare Trust meetings we went to were brilliant. Not for what we learnt - we'd read most of it already. But for the friends we made with the other couples who were going through exactly the same things as us. They've proved a brilliant support network.
    NCT are great, but can sometimes go over board with regard to pushing breast feeding over bottles. People should quite rightly be aware of the positives of the former, but then be left to make a choice that works for them without being made to feel guilty if they choose the latter.
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    There's a guy on another forum I frequent who clearly knows his facts. On any topic, he'll string together a reasoned argument that seems to be well put together, referenced and sometimes even readable. Then in the last paragraph, it gets tortured out of recognition as he tries to explain why it is obviously bad for the Tories.

    I can't work out why this has come to mind on this thread.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,441
    edited October 2015


    Thanks. It scares the living daylights out of me. I don't feel remotely qualified or ready. And I don't get enough sleep as it is.

    Kids... hmmm!

    No one is qualified for kids until about 12 months after they have had the first one. After that it gets easier. Much easier.

    Every new child is a total stranger. You do not know them and they do not know you and you all have to get to know each other. They are demanding and you have no way to negotiate with them because there is no way to communicate other than hugs, threats or bribery.

    It does get easier though...

    The first one is a precious bundle that gets watched and checked. When she was asleep and being very quiet and very, very still, I would occasionally prod her with my finger to see if she was still alive. With the second one you just look into the cot and go "Yeah - she's fine". With the first one you worry about everything you feed her. With the second one it is "Eat it or starve kid", etc.

    My life is richer for having both of them even though I was worried about how I would cope and what it would do to me job wise. In the end I changed my job around to allow me much more time with my children because, as they grew up, I wanted to be there with them and sharing in their victories and helping them through the bad times.

    One has now flown the nest and I still worry about her even though she seems to be doing very well. The second one is fledging her wings and I worry even more about her, but I love them both and look forward to sharing the times ahead. For me, it has been well worth it.
    Ms C, my three are all grown, with children of their own. And we still worry about them. The difference is that they worry about us now as wel!.

    Or did, because our middle one died of MND a couple of years ago and there is no worse time.
    She was the one who knew about Care Homes, too!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    More likely thinking and worrying about the Daily Mail headline

    @hugorifkind: (1/2) Here's the first thing Tom Watson wrote about VIP paedos... http://t.co/xAA0BrmqTy

    @hugorifkind: (2/2) From the above, by Watson, I'm still most fascinated by what he meant by this bit. Who? What did they say? http://t.co/pZZgLdaRl9

    @hugorifkind: Has anything happened? Anybody followed him? Noises on the phone? And, if not, have "people who should know" apologised for scaring him, so?
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256


    Ms C, my three are all grown, with children of their own. And we still worry about them. The difference is that they worry about us now as wel!.

    Or did, because our middle one died on MND a couple of years ago and there is no worse time.

    :(

    ((hugs)) OldKingCole. MND took my uncle (well, pneumonia actually got him). A nasty, horrible disease.

    We are not yet a grandmother. (Thankfully!!)

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    LennonLennon Posts: 1,759
    Only briefly scanned through, but just to add my comments on children (and I speak as a dad of 2 with a 3rd on the way)

    - Agree with a lot of what Mr Jessop has said - and would endorse the NCT classes for the friends and support network (albeit that it is pretty traditional middle-class - no less supportive for that)

    - Don't put it off until you are '100% ready' - you will never be. I know too many people who put it of so long that it then never happened, and however much you think you ready it is amazingly disruptive and brilliant and changes things.

    - Equally, don't assume that it's the "end" of you life as you know it. It isn't, you just have to prioritise, work with your partner on what matters to each of you and what you need to do in your time out to be refreshed for the ongoing challenge.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "The first one is a precious bundle that gets watched and checked. When she was asleep and being very quiet and very, very still, I would occasionally prod her with my finger to see if she was still alive."

    Yup, did that, lots. Then the first time he didn't wake up for a feed at 2.am. my wife woke me up to tell me and say how worried she was about him. I had to get up and make sure he was still alive, which woke him up and, boy, was he cross.

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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Why are we advertising for spiritual healers on the NHS?

    https://www.jobs.nhs.uk/xi/vacancy/26ed44d3913ede389bedce1e4777458a/?vac_ref=913927029
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,441

    "The first one is a precious bundle that gets watched and checked. When she was asleep and being very quiet and very, very still, I would occasionally prod her with my finger to see if she was still alive."

    Yup, did that, lots. Then the first time he didn't wake up for a feed at 2.am. my wife woke me up to tell me and say how worried she was about him. I had to get up and make sure he was still alive, which woke him up and, boy, was he cross.

    First step[ along the road, sleeping all night!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,387
    JEO said:
    reiki
    ˈreɪki/
    noun
    noun: reiki

    a healing technique based on the principle that the therapist can channel energy into the patient by means of touch, to activate the natural healing processes of the patient's body and restore physical and emotional well-being.
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    LennonLennon Posts: 1,759

    "The first one is a precious bundle that gets watched and checked. When she was asleep and being very quiet and very, very still, I would occasionally prod her with my finger to see if she was still alive."

    Yup, did that, lots. Then the first time he didn't wake up for a feed at 2.am. my wife woke me up to tell me and say how worried she was about him. I had to get up and make sure he was still alive, which woke him up and, boy, was he cross.

    :-)

    I already dread to think how lax we are going to end up being with the 3rd in some ways...
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    JEO said:
    Because we're stupid

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,387
    For this role you will need a Reiki Master Usui System qualification.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,426

    I've never had children, and doubt if I shall. I do however, have step-children.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256



    Yup, did that, lots. Then the first time he didn't wake up for a feed at 2.am. my wife woke me up to tell me and say how worried she was about him. I had to get up and make sure he was still alive, which woke him up and, boy, was he cross.

    :) Rule #1: Never, ever wake a sleeping baby. When they are hungry they will wake you.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,441
    Lennon said:

    "The first one is a precious bundle that gets watched and checked. When she was asleep and being very quiet and very, very still, I would occasionally prod her with my finger to see if she was still alive."

    Yup, did that, lots. Then the first time he didn't wake up for a feed at 2.am. my wife woke me up to tell me and say how worried she was about him. I had to get up and make sure he was still alive, which woke him up and, boy, was he cross.

    :-)

    I already dread to think how lax we are going to end up being with the 3rd in some ways...
    With three, you need to have a care pver the middle one. Not eldest, who had sole use of your time initially. Not the baby, the lttle one. Seems to be a bit difficult for them.
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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    antifrank said:

    The only time I feel that it would be nice to have kids is when I want to see a new cartoon without looking like a weirdo.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mPEHKdfPuU
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,128
    dr_spyn said:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-1)
    Leave: 39% (+1)
    (via ICM / 07 Oct)

    Interesting - not as big a gap as Com Res but remain does have a clearish lead.
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    Pulpstar said:

    JEO said:
    reiki
    ˈreɪki/
    noun
    noun: reiki

    a healing technique based on the principle that the therapist can channel energy into the patient by means of touch, to activate the natural healing processes of the patient's body and restore physical and emotional well-being.
    "The therapist will provide Reiki/Spiritual healing to patients to enable them to cope with the emotional, physical and spiritual issues of dealing with their cancer journey."

    Seems acceptable to me.

    Doesn't seem to suggest they would reject traditional treatments, rather, the therapost is for support.
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    There are two vaguely pro-Tory articles in the Guardian today. I choked on my breakfast.

    The john Harris one is good, worth a read.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    JEO said:
    The mind is a powerful healer. Many doctors will tell of "The Wisdom of the Body" or the placebo effect where, if you tell people they are getting better, then a surprising number of them do.

    If it frees up clinical time for other things then why not?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Lennon said:

    I already dread to think how lax we are going to end up being with the 3rd in some ways...

    If a baby drops their dummy on the floor

    For the first, sterlise it completely before returning it to their mouth
    For the second, run it under the tap
    For the third, lick it
    For the fourth, let the dog lick it

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    LennonLennon Posts: 1,759

    Lennon said:

    "The first one is a precious bundle that gets watched and checked. When she was asleep and being very quiet and very, very still, I would occasionally prod her with my finger to see if she was still alive."

    Yup, did that, lots. Then the first time he didn't wake up for a feed at 2.am. my wife woke me up to tell me and say how worried she was about him. I had to get up and make sure he was still alive, which woke him up and, boy, was he cross.

    :-)

    I already dread to think how lax we are going to end up being with the 3rd in some ways...
    With three, you need to have a care pver the middle one. Not eldest, who had sole use of your time initially. Not the baby, the lttle one. Seems to be a bit difficult for them.
    Thanks - starting to think about how to do that / what he needs in terms of time/attention and how to give that. Might have to encourage him that 1:1 walks with daddy putting political leaflets through strangers doors is really fun! :-)
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,386
    Sean_F said:


    I've never had children, and doubt if I shall. I do however, have step-children.

    I really enjoy taking and hanging out with my two teenage nephews. They are good lads.

    Sadly by brother-in-law died of terminal cancer over the summer - which is one of the reasons my blog went quiet - so they're now no longer with a father.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Lennon said:

    "The first one is a precious bundle that gets watched and checked. When she was asleep and being very quiet and very, very still, I would occasionally prod her with my finger to see if she was still alive."

    Yup, did that, lots. Then the first time he didn't wake up for a feed at 2.am. my wife woke me up to tell me and say how worried she was about him. I had to get up and make sure he was still alive, which woke him up and, boy, was he cross.

    :-)

    I already dread to think how lax we are going to end up being with the 3rd in some ways...
    :) I know what you mean. Thankfully a third one is no longer a possibility.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @KateEMcCann: Theresa May, asked if Tom Watson should apologise, says: "All those of us in public life need to be very careful about the language we use"
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Pulpstar said:

    JEO said:
    reiki
    ˈreɪki/
    noun
    noun: reiki

    a healing technique based on the principle that the therapist can channel energy into the patient by means of touch, to activate the natural healing processes of the patient's body and restore physical and emotional well-being.
    "The therapist will provide Reiki/Spiritual healing to patients to enable them to cope with the emotional, physical and spiritual issues of dealing with their cancer journey."

    Seems acceptable to me.

    Doesn't seem to suggest they would reject traditional treatments, rather, the therapost is for support.
    Seems a warped priority to me. I read this morning of the financial problems within the NHS, I'd suggest weirdos talking spiritual mumbo jumbo are not a necessity.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    On kids, we're all anecdotal as it's hard to agree what good child behaviour is, let alone measure which countries display it. My 2p worth is that we've shaken off the reputation that we used to have of actively disliking kids (I remember an article in a Sunday broadsheet suggesting seriously that Baden-Powell might have had paedophile leanings since "It is not normal to like children unless they are your own"), but we're still a bit neurotic about them, simultaneously wanting to treat them as innocent darlings and mature adults. The general drift is undoubtedly to the latter - you have to be very cocooned these days to be innocent in any way beyond the age of 7 or so.

    Inner London kids (who I mostly see now) generally seem OK to me in everyday life (no idea what they're like at home) - more boisterous than adults, pretty streetwise and probably willing to try anything once without too many regrets, but very few actually nasty.

    I find other people's kids highly irritating, except for my own nephews. I also remember how much of an obnoxious brat I was as a kid, and my wife was semi-jokingly referred to as a "devil-child" by her father.

    My wife now wants to start a family. I think about all that, and then have all my work colleagues and friends make 'jokes' about having no more sleep anymore, and how your whole life changes forever.

    Frankly, it puts me off. It sounds shit.
    Pah! The lack of sleep only lasts a relatively short time. Yes - it changes your life. But lots of things do that and a child is your offering to the future. But it's your life so good luck with whatever you decide.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Lennon said:

    Thanks - starting to think about how to do that / what he needs in terms of time/attention and how to give that. Might have to encourage him that 1:1 walks with daddy putting political leaflets through strangers doors is really fun! :-)

    There was an article in the Times about raising 'spoilt' kids, and one of the things they advise is 1:1 time with each child every day for 15-20 mins

    It did say it should be an activity the kid enjoys though...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,387
    @Casino_Royale Check your inbox btw
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,839
    watford30 said:

    JEO said:

    Casino_Royale,

    I think it depends on the individual but it is normal for a lot of men. I think it also depends on what your own family background was like. I think people that had very warm and close relationships with their own parents and siblings look forward to it more.

    In terms of what parents say, you need to realise that all parents want to do is talk about their child and how fantastic he is, and how he did this amazing thing yesterday. But we know we come across as boring self-obsessed drones when we do that. So we shield ourselves from that criticism by joking about it being a negative.

    I do think it's right that you wait until you're ready, as there will be the odd occasion you resent your child and you want to minimise that. But it's for sure the best thing I've ever done, and the vast majority of parents who planned their children will say the same.

    Thanks JEO. But you think the choice is up to me?

    We've been married for over 2 years, and my wife is coming up to 32. She is badgering me weekly ;-)
    If it's any help, a friend of mine felt very emotionally detached about having a baby. His wife wanted kids, so they had them. He went to all of the prenatal classes, but didn't really feel involved.

    Until, that is, he held his daughter for the first time. He has described the emotion as smashing him in the face with a twelve-pound sledgehammer. His view on that child changed with that first touch, and he's a superb dad.

    Oh, and if you do decide to have kids, then the National Childcare Trust meetings we went to were brilliant. Not for what we learnt - we'd read most of it already. But for the friends we made with the other couples who were going through exactly the same things as us. They've proved a brilliant support network.
    NCT are great, but can sometimes go over board with regard to pushing breast feeding over bottles. People should quite rightly be aware of the positives of the former, but then be left to make a choice that works for them without being made to feel guilty if they choose the latter.
    I'd agree with that. A few months back I was talking with a mother who had just had her second child. She'd breastfed her first child well, but the second wasn't taking to it.

    Her emotional distress at not being able to breastfeed was causing both her and the baby more harm than the bottle ever would.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,720
    All this talk of babies - and not one recipe.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,839

    All this talk of babies - and not one recipe.

    Given the contents of a newborn's nappy can look rather like a curry sauce, I can try to give you a recipe for that if you'd like. ;)

    It's rather put me off curry.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,441

    Sean_F said:


    I've never had children, and doubt if I shall. I do however, have step-children.

    I really enjoy taking and hanging out with my two teenage nephews. They are good lads.

    Sadly by brother-in-law died of terminal cancer over the summer - which is one of the reasons my blog went quiet - so they're now no longer with a father.
    My father had a brother, who had two sons. I have a sister. The brother died, and my sister and I wrote to our cousins, without consulting each other, saying what a superb uncle their father had been and how we had such fond memories of him. They replied somewhat darkly about “behind closed doors”.
    The my father died, and our cousins wrote to us as we had written to them ..... we replied in similar vein to them. Odd, isn’t it.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :lol:

    All this talk of babies - and not one recipe.

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    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    felix said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-1)
    Leave: 39% (+1)
    (via ICM / 07 Oct)

    Interesting - not as big a gap as Com Res but remain does have a clearish lead.
    That requires a 2.5 point swing when there is 7 points undecided. That is not a big lead.
  • Options
    With the financial pressures in the NHS announced today there is no answer to the ever widening need that is possible as Politicians decant their own entrenched positions. My sister is very poorly in a Nursing Home under Wales NHS continuing care costing the health authority £38000 per year. How many ordinary tax payers even pay just for my sister. The whole problem needs handing to an Independent non political organisations and at some time, maybe sooner rather than later, charges will have to be introduced
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,426
    JEO said:

    felix said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-1)
    Leave: 39% (+1)
    (via ICM / 07 Oct)

    Interesting - not as big a gap as Com Res but remain does have a clearish lead.
    That requires a 2.5 point swing when there is 7 points undecided. That is not a big lead.
    Excluding Don't knows it's 53/47%, which is in the same ballpark as Yougov and Survation showing leads of 51-52/48-49% for Leave.

    Even the Com Res poll shows a shift to Leave from the Spring, when it was 58-31%.
  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    JEO said:
    reiki
    ˈreɪki/
    noun
    noun: reiki

    a healing technique based on the principle that the therapist can channel energy into the patient by means of touch, to activate the natural healing processes of the patient's body and restore physical and emotional well-being.
    "The therapist will provide Reiki/Spiritual healing to patients to enable them to cope with the emotional, physical and spiritual issues of dealing with their cancer journey."

    Seems acceptable to me.

    Doesn't seem to suggest they would reject traditional treatments, rather, the therapost is for support.
    Seems a warped priority to me. I read this morning of the financial problems within the NHS, I'd suggest weirdos talking spiritual mumbo jumbo are not a necessity.
    Presumably we already offer traditional therapy to people in that position.

    For some people "mumbo jumbo" will work better in terms of their recovery. Forcing it on everyone, not so much; but eight patients a week hardly sounds like it (of course the trust may employ others, but you get the point).
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,720
    BTW, the Good Lady Wifi was very impressed with Suffragette, the opening film of the London Film Festival.
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    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    I'm allergic to children. Never liked them for more about 20 mins. And we decided that neither of us wanted or was right temperamentally for them. I have no idea how any parent holds down a job with a young one. I've hand-reared puppies from birth and feeding them every two hours for 4 weeks left me a zombie.

    I can manage a couple of weeks - but the idea of months and months of this just fills me with horror. I'm simply not cut out for it. The biohazard aspect doesn't bother me at all and have acres of patience - but just not for grizzling.

    Thanks. It scares the living daylights out of me. I don't feel remotely qualified or ready. And I don't get enough sleep as it is.

    I don't know about other people, but we've developed coping strategies to do with lack of sleep. Fortunately the little 'uns sleep is improving now he's 15 months.

    As for being qualified, remotely or otherwise: we felt exactly the same way. It's only when you see the mothers who work as nursery nurses struggle to cope with their first-born that you realise that there are no qualifications, and you are never quite ready.

    You'll learn to cope with the downsides. But do not forget the upsides either. I can operate for an entire day on one of his smiles, and his laughter covers up the smell of any number of nasty bio-warfare nappies.

    It really is the most tremendous great fun. Despite having chucked in work, my existence (perhaps not the best way of putting it) is so much bigger than it was before.

    Well, nearly. ;)
    When we met, Mrs J felt pretty much as you do. Yet as she approached forty and realised now-or-never territory was a few years away, she slowly changed her mind.

    And she's a great mother. Immensely protective (as Turkish mothers tend to be), and intensely loving.

    There has been one very notable change. Before we had Robert, she lived for work. Now she can hardly wait to get home. Something she shares with much of the new fathers I know.
    All mothers are protective, except the ones who pretend their daughter has been kidnapped.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,386
    Pulpstar said:

    @Casino_Royale Check your inbox btw

    Replied. Thanks.
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    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    felix said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-1)
    Leave: 39% (+1)
    (via ICM / 07 Oct)

    Interesting - not as big a gap as Com Res but remain does have a clearish lead.
    That requires a 2.5 point swing when there is 7 points undecided. That is not a big lead.
    Excluding Don't knows it's 53/47%, which is in the same ballpark as Yougov and Survation showing leads of 51-52/48-49% for Leave.

    Even the Com Res poll shows a shift to Leave from the Spring, when it was 58-31%.
    The danger for those who want Leave is that the undecided in any referendum generally break for the status quo. IMO the polls if they're balanced right by age etc need to show a clear Leave lead excluding don't knows for leave to be confident.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,839

    "The first one is a precious bundle that gets watched and checked. When she was asleep and being very quiet and very, very still, I would occasionally prod her with my finger to see if she was still alive."

    Yup, did that, lots. Then the first time he didn't wake up for a feed at 2.am. my wife woke me up to tell me and say how worried she was about him. I had to get up and make sure he was still alive, which woke him up and, boy, was he cross.

    Someone I know had a horrible experience when their baby was very young. She'd had trouble breastfeeding, and the baby was querulous. Eventually they got to sleep, but half an later the baby woke up screaming. When she looked in the cot, she saw the baby was covered in vomit and blood.

    She woke her big, burly husband, who took one look and fainted.

    In the meantime she wrapped the baby in a cloth, got in the car, and drove to hospital. She admits that wasn't the wisest thing to do, but she was panicking.

    When she gets to hospital, it turns out that the baby had been drinking blood due to mastitis, and had been sick for other reasons. He was fine.

    Unfortunately, the husband woke up to find his wife and the baby missing, and blood in the baby's cot and bedding. Her clothes were on the floor. A situation made worse when he found her mobile phone and housekeys downstairs...
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Pulpstar said:

    JEO said:
    reiki
    ˈreɪki/
    noun
    noun: reiki

    a healing technique based on the principle that the therapist can channel energy into the patient by means of touch, to activate the natural healing processes of the patient's body and restore physical and emotional well-being.
    "The therapist will provide Reiki/Spiritual healing to patients to enable them to cope with the emotional, physical and spiritual issues of dealing with their cancer journey."

    Seems acceptable to me.

    Doesn't seem to suggest they would reject traditional treatments, rather, the therapost is for support.
    Seems a warped priority to me. I read this morning of the financial problems within the NHS, I'd suggest weirdos talking spiritual mumbo jumbo are not a necessity.
    Presumably we already offer traditional therapy to people in that position.

    For some people "mumbo jumbo" will work better in terms of their recovery. Forcing it on everyone, not so much; but eight patients a week hardly sounds like it (of course the trust may employ others, but you get the point).
    Getting the point is not the point, you are ignoring the financial state of the NHS. If you think providing spiritual therapy to people is essential then we'll agree to disagree, I can think of more crucial things to spend money on.

  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,297
    edited October 2015
    JEO said:

    https://www.rt.com/news/318074-eu-russia-relations-improve-juncker/

    Juncker says EU Russian relations must improve and Washington can't dictate. The peice quotes the speech directly for those who automatically disbelieve anything sullied by being reported by RT. The views expressed will be of no surprise to those who follow these issues closely. That such a senior figure has had the cojones to say this publicly will.

    Juncker is the worse type of Eurocrat. Its interesting that your Putinism comes above your euroscepticisn.
    I'm not a Putinist, but even accepting your frames of reference, it doesn't. I've never seen the problem with Juncker - not at the time, and not now, and if you look back on my posts at the time of his appointment you can verify that. Federalist gets made Head of the EU Commission - Um - surprise? The only reason we have him as some sort of half-hearted 'hate' figure is because Cameron tried to ride the horse of his appointment being blocked for a cheap eurosceptic 'win', only to find out he'd misread the German mood, so he ended up looking like the tit he is.

    As a matter of fact, Juncker indicated both before and after his appointment that he was willing to offer 'associate membership' to Britain, as did that other old enemy Jaques Delors:

    'Yet Mr Juncker is no fool. He knows that Britain will never willingly follow such an agenda. So he made a point of indicating, both before and after his appointment, that he envisaged a different category of membership for the UK, whereby we could take part in the internal trading market while opting out of political integration.'
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3095556/Dave-demand-earth-Europe-s-leaders-amazed-wants-LITTLE-says-Daniel-Hannan-Conservative-MEP.html

    It was Cameron that turned him down. Because Cameron is convinced that he doesn't need to get a good deal for Britain; he can cow the public into voting to remain without one. And sadly I agree with his assessment.


  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,386
    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    felix said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-1)
    Leave: 39% (+1)
    (via ICM / 07 Oct)

    Interesting - not as big a gap as Com Res but remain does have a clearish lead.
    That requires a 2.5 point swing when there is 7 points undecided. That is not a big lead.
    Excluding Don't knows it's 53/47%, which is in the same ballpark as Yougov and Survation showing leads of 51-52/48-49% for Leave.

    Even the Com Res poll shows a shift to Leave from the Spring, when it was 58-31%.
    The hefty Remain lead in the Com Res poll seems to be driven by a far lower level of undecided/unsure voters - 8% as to the usual 17-18% :

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_referendum_on_United_Kingdom_membership_of_the_European_Union
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,720
    There is one great advantage to not having kids. You can engage with self-righteous save-the-planet types, who invariably have a gang of snot-goblins in tow, and say

    "I have chosen to make the greatest sacrifice there is to reduce my carbon footprint - by not replacing myself when I die. You?"
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    felix said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-1)
    Leave: 39% (+1)
    (via ICM / 07 Oct)

    Interesting - not as big a gap as Com Res but remain does have a clearish lead.
    That requires a 2.5 point swing when there is 7 points undecided. That is not a big lead.
    Excluding Don't knows it's 53/47%, which is in the same ballpark as Yougov and Survation showing leads of 51-52/48-49% for Leave.

    Even the Com Res poll shows a shift to Leave from the Spring, when it was 58-31%.
    The hefty Remain lead in the Com Res poll seems to be driven by a far lower level of undecided/unsure voters - 8% as to the usual 17-18% :

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_referendum_on_United_Kingdom_membership_of_the_European_Union
    That icm poll has leave in the lead when asked how they'd vote if Cameron fails to change the EU
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    felix said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-1)
    Leave: 39% (+1)
    (via ICM / 07 Oct)

    Interesting - not as big a gap as Com Res but remain does have a clearish lead.
    That requires a 2.5 point swing when there is 7 points undecided. That is not a big lead.
    Excluding Don't knows it's 53/47%, which is in the same ballpark as Yougov and Survation showing leads of 51-52/48-49% for Leave.

    Even the Com Res poll shows a shift to Leave from the Spring, when it was 58-31%.
    The danger for those who want Leave is that the undecided in any referendum generally break for the status quo. IMO the polls if they're balanced right by age etc need to show a clear Leave lead excluding don't knows for leave to be confident.
    The STAY campaign is being fronted by Mandelson which creates an interesting dichotomy for the tories that would vote IN rather than see Farage's victorious grin. The morning after the referendum they'll be faced with one of Mandy or Nigel gurning, I'll say that's a lose/lose for the tory sheep who vote along party lines regardless.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    :lol:

    All this talk of babies - and not one recipe.

    You have to be very careful with babies. They are incredibly sensitive to salt in their food as their bodies come prepared with all the salt they need for the first 6 months and a lot of adult food is high in salt.

    But for the parents perhaps....

    Gin Pudding

    2 Bramley apples
    2 Braeburn apples
    150ml Gin
    500ml Tonic
    1 lemon
    200g caster sugar
    500ml apple juice
    50g butter

    Mix the caster sugar with 120ml of water and bring to the boil. When the sugar dissolves, remove from the heat. Add lemon, tonic and gin and grated bramley and mix. Cool and put in the freezer. Every 15 - 20 minutes remove from the freezer and whisk. Repeat until frozen (some 2 or 3 hours).

    To serve, heat the apple juice and reduce to a syrupy toffee consistency (30+ mins) and whisk in butter and let cool. Break the frozen mix into slush and place in a serving bowl. Pour the cold apple sauce over the top and sprinkle with diced Braeburn apples.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,720

    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    felix said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-1)
    Leave: 39% (+1)
    (via ICM / 07 Oct)

    Interesting - not as big a gap as Com Res but remain does have a clearish lead.
    That requires a 2.5 point swing when there is 7 points undecided. That is not a big lead.
    Excluding Don't knows it's 53/47%, which is in the same ballpark as Yougov and Survation showing leads of 51-52/48-49% for Leave.

    Even the Com Res poll shows a shift to Leave from the Spring, when it was 58-31%.
    The danger for those who want Leave is that the undecided in any referendum generally break for the status quo. IMO the polls if they're balanced right by age etc need to show a clear Leave lead excluding don't knows for leave to be confident.
    The STAY campaign is being fronted by Mandelson which creates an interesting dichotomy for the tories that would vote IN rather than see Farage's victorious grin. The morning after the referendum they'll be faced with one of Mandy or Nigel gurning, I'll say that's a lose/lose for the tory sheep who vote along party lines regardless.
    You don't have to vote...
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,294

    :lol:

    All this talk of babies - and not one recipe.

    You have to be very careful with babies. They are incredibly sensitive to salt in their food as their bodies come prepared with all the salt they need for the first 6 months and a lot of adult food is high in salt.

    But for the parents perhaps....

    Gin Pudding

    2 Bramley apples
    2 Braeburn apples
    150ml Gin
    500ml Tonic
    1 lemon
    200g caster sugar
    500ml apple juice
    50g butter

    Mix the caster sugar with 120ml of water and bring to the boil. When the sugar dissolves, remove from the heat. Add lemon, tonic and gin and grated bramley and mix. Cool and put in the freezer. Every 15 - 20 minutes remove from the freezer and whisk. Repeat until frozen (some 2 or 3 hours).

    To serve, heat the apple juice and reduce to a syrupy toffee consistency (30+ mins) and whisk in butter and let cool. Break the frozen mix into slush and place in a serving bowl. Pour the cold apple sauce over the top and sprinkle with diced Braeburn apples.
    Does that gin help the baby to sleep?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    There is one great advantage to not having kids. You can engage with self-righteous save-the-planet types, who invariably have a gang of snot-goblins in tow, and say

    "I have chosen to make the greatest sacrifice there is to reduce my carbon footprint - by not replacing myself when I die. You?"

    Or you can bank the carbon saved and have a holiday home with a swimming pool that you fly to regularly.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,415
    Interesting speech:

    http://www.euractiv.com/sections/global-europe/juncker-we-cant-let-eu-relations-russia-be-dictated-us-318364

    Putin must feel he's making progress in changing Western views of him. I'm not a fan myself (False Flag, who used to post here regularly from a pro-Putin/far-right viewpoint, seems to have given up) but I think Western attitudes towards Russia are genuinely confusing - I can't work out any consistent approach at all, and doubt if the Russians can either.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    'ICM polled 1,947 people online on the evening of 7 October 2015. This is the first poll to look at the EU issue since David Cameron’s Conference Speech. The top line is that 44% of people would vote to remain a member of the EU, 39% would vote to leave (excluding ‘Don’t Knows’ it changes to 53% voting to remain, 47% voting to leave).

    However, if you ask people to imagine that that, after the negotiations, the supremacy of EU law over UK law remains as it is now, there is clear shift towards ‘leave’. 43% say they would vote to leave the European Union, 38% say they would vote to remain (excluding ‘Don’t Knows’ it changes to 47% voting to remain, 53% voting to leave).

    When asked how they view the EU, only 32% say that they strongly support the European Union project and are almost sure to vote to stay. 54% say that they either think that the European Union is bad for Britain and Europe and are almost sure to vote to leave (34%) or that they would like to leave the EU but are worried about the effect on jobs and living standards so may vote to stay (20%).'

    http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/vote_leave_launches
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,294

    "The first one is a precious bundle that gets watched and checked. When she was asleep and being very quiet and very, very still, I would occasionally prod her with my finger to see if she was still alive."

    Yup, did that, lots. Then the first time he didn't wake up for a feed at 2.am. my wife woke me up to tell me and say how worried she was about him. I had to get up and make sure he was still alive, which woke him up and, boy, was he cross.

    Someone I know had a horrible experience when their baby was very young. She'd had trouble breastfeeding, and the baby was querulous. Eventually they got to sleep, but half an later the baby woke up screaming. When she looked in the cot, she saw the baby was covered in vomit and blood.

    She woke her big, burly husband, who took one look and fainted.

    In the meantime she wrapped the baby in a cloth, got in the car, and drove to hospital. She admits that wasn't the wisest thing to do, but she was panicking.

    When she gets to hospital, it turns out that the baby had been drinking blood due to mastitis, and had been sick for other reasons. He was fine.

    Unfortunately, the husband woke up to find his wife and the baby missing, and blood in the baby's cot and bedding. Her clothes were on the floor. A situation made worse when he found her mobile phone and housekeys downstairs...
    how did he convince the policy that he hadn't murdered them?
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    felix said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-1)
    Leave: 39% (+1)
    (via ICM / 07 Oct)

    Interesting - not as big a gap as Com Res but remain does have a clearish lead.
    That requires a 2.5 point swing when there is 7 points undecided. That is not a big lead.
    Excluding Don't knows it's 53/47%, which is in the same ballpark as Yougov and Survation showing leads of 51-52/48-49% for Leave.

    Even the Com Res poll shows a shift to Leave from the Spring, when it was 58-31%.
    The danger for those who want Leave is that the undecided in any referendum generally break for the status quo. IMO the polls if they're balanced right by age etc need to show a clear Leave lead excluding don't knows for leave to be confident.
    The STAY campaign is being fronted by Mandelson which creates an interesting dichotomy for the tories that would vote IN rather than see Farage's victorious grin. The morning after the referendum they'll be faced with one of Mandy or Nigel gurning, I'll say that's a lose/lose for the tory sheep who vote along party lines regardless.
    You don't have to vote...
    Of course, I'm referring to conversations on here this week where certain tories said although they wanted to leave they were voting IN to spite Farage.

    I'm not sure they'd factored Mandy into their myopia.

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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,022
    antifrank said:

    The only time I feel that it would be nice to have kids is when I want to see a new cartoon without looking like a weirdo.

    Do not underestimate that benefit. And the opportunity to play with Lego, bikes, dolls or a multitude of other childish things.

    There was a time when my eldest was young and changing almost weekly, when you never knew what was going to happen next and when you could just try introducing new things into his world to see what happened, he was not just a son at that stage but the geek in me almost sort of viewed him as the best gadget ever - never mind that iPhone. When I kept having that thought, it seemed somehow a wrong way of thinking even to me, but I hope you get what I mean.

    The one bit I have never been able to engage with is the magic of childbirth itself. As far as I'm concerned my job there was a serious one as a patient advocate for a process that is messy, painful and above all dangerous. The day someone is born is the single most dangerous day of their life until, QED, the day they die. If I were a health worker standing in front of an expectant mother I wouldn't put things quite so starkly of course, but the level of patronisation and hippy-dippy naturalness parents, and especially mothers, have to put up with through pregnancy and into early-life is something to behold.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    There is one great advantage to not having kids. You can engage with self-righteous save-the-planet types, who invariably have a gang of snot-goblins in tow, and say

    "I have chosen to make the greatest sacrifice there is to reduce my carbon footprint - by not replacing myself when I die. You?"

    Most amusing Mr MM.. I was denied the opportunity due to.my late wife,s Illness. There are ccountless thousands who.regret what they could not have. But there are .compensations though not what you write of.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    JEO said:

    On kids, we're all anecdotal as it's hard to agree what good child behaviour is, let alone measure which countries display it. My 2p worth is that we've shaken off the reputation that we used to have of actively disliking kids (I remember an article in a Sunday broadsheet suggesting seriously that Baden-Powell might have had paedophile leanings since "It is not normal to like children unless they are your own"), but we're still a bit neurotic about them, simultaneously wanting to treat them as innocent darlings and mature adults. The general drift is undoubtedly to the latter - you have to be very cocooned these days to be innocent in any way beyond the age of 7 or so.

    Inner London kids (who I mostly see now) generally seem OK to me in everyday life (no idea what they're like at home) - more boisterous than adults, pretty streetwise and probably willing to try anything once without too many regrets, but very few actually nasty.

    I find other people's kids highly irritating, except for my own nephews. I also remember how much of an obnoxious brat I was as a kid, and my wife was semi-jokingly referred to as a "devil-child" by her father.

    My wife now wants to start a family. I think about all that, and then have all my work colleagues and friends make 'jokes' about having no more sleep anymore, and how your whole life changes forever.

    Frankly, it puts me off. It sounds shit.
    It should definitely not be done lightly. And it is often exhausting. But, for me, it was also the most rewarding thing I've ever done. It doesn't matter how tired you are, one smile from the little blighter makes it all feel worth it.

    And, not to come across the arrogant parent, but after we had our first, it made me feel like I'd be wasting my life before it on meaningless trivial stuff. I'm not disrespecting anyone else's choices with that, just saying how my own life felt to me.
    I'm sure (I hope) I will feel the same - but I need to get there first. I just don't feel a desperate need to have them - is this normal?

    At the moment, most existing parents think they're being funny but they're basically just putting me off and not helping.
    Yes - it is normal. I probably wanted children more than my husband when we started but he became a devoted father and became keen to carry on even when we had 3 under the age of 5.

    But this is for your and your wife. And the only advice I can give you is to ignore what others tell you. Your life, your instincts, feelings, love for your wife etc are the best guide not our ramblings. And you should ignore this too!!!
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    felix said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-1)
    Leave: 39% (+1)
    (via ICM / 07 Oct)

    Interesting - not as big a gap as Com Res but remain does have a clearish lead.
    That requires a 2.5 point swing when there is 7 points undecided. That is not a big lead.
    Excluding Don't knows it's 53/47%, which is in the same ballpark as Yougov and Survation showing leads of 51-52/48-49% for Leave.

    Even the Com Res poll shows a shift to Leave from the Spring, when it was 58-31%.
    The hefty Remain lead in the Com Res poll seems to be driven by a far lower level of undecided/unsure voters - 8% as to the usual 17-18% :

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_referendum_on_United_Kingdom_membership_of_the_European_Union
    That icm poll has leave in the lead when asked how they'd vote if Cameron fails to change the EU
    Aunt balls uncle.
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    Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,176
    edited October 2015
    Have there been any Scotland only (or broken down regionally) EU in/out polls?

    We keep hearing about how a UK out vote would put an independence referendum back on the agenda, but is it right that Scots would vote to stay in? It was interesting how, for example, in the AV referendum the 2 to 1 outcome was similar across the country and I think near uniform in Scotland too.

    I wonder how much different the Scots are on this to the UK as a whole?
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    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    felix said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-1)
    Leave: 39% (+1)
    (via ICM / 07 Oct)

    Interesting - not as big a gap as Com Res but remain does have a clearish lead.
    That requires a 2.5 point swing when there is 7 points undecided. That is not a big lead.
    Excluding Don't knows it's 53/47%, which is in the same ballpark as Yougov and Survation showing leads of 51-52/48-49% for Leave.

    Even the Com Res poll shows a shift to Leave from the Spring, when it was 58-31%.
    The danger for those who want Leave is that the undecided in any referendum generally break for the status quo. IMO the polls if they're balanced right by age etc need to show a clear Leave lead excluding don't knows for leave to be confident.
    The STAY campaign is being fronted by Mandelson which creates an interesting dichotomy for the tories that would vote IN rather than see Farage's victorious grin. The morning after the referendum they'll be faced with one of Mandy or Nigel gurning, I'll say that's a lose/lose for the tory sheep who vote along party lines regardless.
    I want Farage to lose not because I dislike Farage but because I dislike what he stands for lately and what he is saying. His reason to vote out is a reason for me to vote in.

    If Leave is fronted by the likes of Lawson, Hannan, Carswell and Hoey then I'd be more tempted to endorse that.

    The leave campaign needs to appeal to at least 20 million voters. Farage won't do that but this campaign could.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    dr_spyn said:

    :lol:

    All this talk of babies - and not one recipe.

    You have to be very careful with babies. They are incredibly sensitive to salt in their food as their bodies come prepared with all the salt they need for the first 6 months and a lot of adult food is high in salt.

    But for the parents perhaps....

    Gin Pudding

    2 Bramley apples
    2 Braeburn apples
    150ml Gin
    500ml Tonic
    1 lemon
    200g caster sugar
    500ml apple juice
    50g butter

    Mix the caster sugar with 120ml of water and bring to the boil. When the sugar dissolves, remove from the heat. Add lemon, tonic and gin and grated bramley and mix. Cool and put in the freezer. Every 15 - 20 minutes remove from the freezer and whisk. Repeat until frozen (some 2 or 3 hours).

    To serve, heat the apple juice and reduce to a syrupy toffee consistency (30+ mins) and whisk in butter and let cool. Break the frozen mix into slush and place in a serving bowl. Pour the cold apple sauce over the top and sprinkle with diced Braeburn apples.
    Does that gin help the baby to sleep?
    No, but it reduces the effect of the crying. Mothers' ruin and all that .... ;)
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,294
    edited October 2015
    Scott_P said:

    Lennon said:

    I already dread to think how lax we are going to end up being with the 3rd in some ways...

    If a baby drops their dummy on the floor

    For the first, sterlise it completely before returning it to their mouth
    For the second, run it under the tap
    For the third, lick it
    For the fourth, let the dog lick it

    Instructions to baby sitter.

    If first baby falls out of cot, call us now.
    If second..call us if there is crying.
    If third...call us if there is bruising.
    If fourth...call us only if there is blood.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    felix said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-1)
    Leave: 39% (+1)
    (via ICM / 07 Oct)

    Interesting - not as big a gap as Com Res but remain does have a clearish lead.
    That requires a 2.5 point swing when there is 7 points undecided. That is not a big lead.
    Excluding Don't knows it's 53/47%, which is in the same ballpark as Yougov and Survation showing leads of 51-52/48-49% for Leave.

    Even the Com Res poll shows a shift to Leave from the Spring, when it was 58-31%.
    The hefty Remain lead in the Com Res poll seems to be driven by a far lower level of undecided/unsure voters - 8% as to the usual 17-18% :

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_referendum_on_United_Kingdom_membership_of_the_European_Union
    That icm poll has leave in the lead when asked how they'd vote if Cameron fails to change the EU
    Aunt balls uncle.
    Not at all. Unless you think it's certain that Cameron will change the EU?
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2015
    Amazing how many people on here can't make their own minds up and have to rely on who fronts what campaign
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,386
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    felix said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4m4 minutes ago
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 44% (-1)
    Leave: 39% (+1)
    (via ICM / 07 Oct)

    Interesting - not as big a gap as Com Res but remain does have a clearish lead.
    That requires a 2.5 point swing when there is 7 points undecided. That is not a big lead.
    Excluding Don't knows it's 53/47%, which is in the same ballpark as Yougov and Survation showing leads of 51-52/48-49% for Leave.

    Even the Com Res poll shows a shift to Leave from the Spring, when it was 58-31%.
    The hefty Remain lead in the Com Res poll seems to be driven by a far lower level of undecided/unsure voters - 8% as to the usual 17-18% :

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_referendum_on_United_Kingdom_membership_of_the_European_Union
    That icm poll has leave in the lead when asked how they'd vote if Cameron fails to change the EU
    Aunt balls uncle.
    Not at all. Unless you think it's certain that Cameron will change the EU?
    The trouble is there's between Cameron being open and honestly admitting failure, and actually having substantially failed, but not admitting it, and then pretending he hasn't.

    The record of our media and the public in recognising the difference is not great. And, right now, Cameron walks on water and will personally swing a lot of voters based on trusting what he says.

    And he knows this.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GuidoFawkes: WATCH: John McDonnell Praises Spitting as a Form of Protest [VIDEO] http://t.co/9qkIAqb95u

    The Shadow Chancellor, Ladies and Gentlemmen...
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,940
    edited October 2015
    dr_spyn said:

    "The first one is a precious bundle that gets watched and checked. When she was asleep and being very quiet and very, very still, I would occasionally prod her with my finger to see if she was still alive."

    Yup, did that, lots. Then the first time he didn't wake up for a feed at 2.am. my wife woke me up to tell me and say how worried she was about him. I had to get up and make sure he was still alive, which woke him up and, boy, was he cross.

    Someone I know had a horrible experience when their baby was very young. She'd had trouble breastfeeding, and the baby was querulous. Eventually they got to sleep, but half an later the baby woke up screaming. When she looked in the cot, she saw the baby was covered in vomit and blood.

    She woke her big, burly husband, who took one look and fainted.

    In the meantime she wrapped the baby in a cloth, got in the car, and drove to hospital. She admits that wasn't the wisest thing to do, but she was panicking.

    When she gets to hospital, it turns out that the baby had been drinking blood due to mastitis, and had been sick for other reasons. He was fine.

    Unfortunately, the husband woke up to find his wife and the baby missing, and blood in the baby's cot and bedding. Her clothes were on the floor. A situation made worse when he found her mobile phone and housekeys downstairs...
    how did he convince the policy that he hadn't murdered them?
    A friend of mine and his wife were working in their garden. She was trying to get a nail out of a fence by using a hammer to hit it back towards herself to get it out. She missed and hit herself in the forehead with the hammer. Blood everywhere, she was in shock.

    My friend rushed over, pulled the hammer out of her hands, threw it away and, after calling 999, berated her, shouting: if you die I am going to go to jail for murder. He had all sorts of problems at the hospital.

    She lived.

    They both tell the story amusingly at dinner parties.
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    Have there been any Scotland only (or broken down regionally) EU in/out polls?

    We keep hearing about how a UK out vote would put an independence referendum back on the agenda, but is it right that Scots would vote to stay in? It was interesting how, for example, in the AV referendum the 2 to 1 outcome was similar across the country and I think near uniform in Scotland too.

    I wonder how much different the Scots are on this to the UK as a whole?

    Poll out yesterday in 47% out 18%

    http://www.tnsglobal.com/uk/snp-maintains-strong-lead-as-new-leaders-fail-to-boost-Labour-support
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,128
    MP_SE said:
    He always does - and to be fair he said when asked about leading Labour basically that he wasn't up to it. shades of Estelle Morris at education. I admire his honesty.
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    @Beverly C

    Ha, spot on re Child 1 and Child 2. We were so much more chilled-out on my daughter, and she's more chilled-out too. Probably no coincidence.

    @Casino Royale - my first child (Josh, now 6) was a terrible, terrible sleeper. Still is. I tjought I could handle it and went to work a few times without any sleep. Eventually I got so tired I could sleep at the drop of a hat. You'll never beat a baby; he destroyed me those first 18 months. You get through it though, and look back and laugh. The best advice I can give is to be very supportive of your wife. I'd guess you are more mature than me but I didn't realise how tough the first few months are for a new-mother. It's scary, tiring and relentless on the first baby. But great though and so rewarding.

    I couldn't imagine life without children. I was your typical bloke; living the dream, going out whenever I felt like it, holidaying wherever I wanted, lazing about on Sundays. All that changed and it all changed for the better. A mono life became a technicolour one. I love being a Dad - the double pram, the kids, me and the dog go everywhere together. I take them out and my wife gets a break, watching Corrie and drinking wine :)

    Old King Cole - I am very sorry to hear about the MND. That's awful, I'm so sorry.
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,022

    There is one great advantage to not having kids. You can engage with self-righteous save-the-planet types, who invariably have a gang of snot-goblins in tow, and say

    "I have chosen to make the greatest sacrifice there is to reduce my carbon footprint - by not replacing myself when I die. You?"

    On lesser sites, where arguments regularly start "If everyone did this....this would happen", you get the righteous urge to point out that any argument starting "If everyone did this..." is doomed from the outset.

    Not to mention that "If everyone did this-ers" have willingly taken the first step towards totalitarianism.

    But, having said that, "if everyone did as you do" humanity would be doomed far sooner than "if everyone did as I do" :) (I'm another with 2 kids and one on the way). So, let's just feel that diversity and roll with it.

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    felixfelix Posts: 15,128
    isam said:

    Amazing how many people on here can't make their own minds up and have to rely on who fronts what campaign

    I think it is Farage who provokes the biggest doubts among people - he's created an image for himself which is almost a caricature but it puts a lot of folk off his message - me included.
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    Tom Watson's position is surely untenable.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,839
    isam said:

    Amazing how many people on here can't make their own minds up and have to rely on who fronts what campaign

    Speaking as someone who is falling off the fence, but not yet hit the ground, you've got it wrong, in my case at least.

    I haven't made my mind up as, for me, the arguments either way are not mature and are thoroughly unpractised. We have a year or more before the referendum, and Cameron hasn't even got his renegotiation through yet.

    Most of the population are probably instinctively either for stay or leave; they haven't really been listening to the arguments (not that there's been much light yet), and are open to persuasion either way. Hence the leaders of the various campaigns will play a vital role.

    In fact, I'd say it's amazing how many people on here have made their minds up, and for whom no evidence or campaigning will change their views.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I do hope so. Karma.

    Tom Watson's position is surely untenable.

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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,386

    isam said:

    Amazing how many people on here can't make their own minds up and have to rely on who fronts what campaign

    Speaking as someone who is falling off the fence, but not yet hit the ground, you've got it wrong, in my case at least.

    I haven't made my mind up as, for me, the arguments either way are not mature and are thoroughly unpractised. We have a year or more before the referendum, and Cameron hasn't even got his renegotiation through yet.

    Most of the population are probably instinctively either for stay or leave; they haven't really been listening to the arguments (not that there's been much light yet), and are open to persuasion either way. Hence the leaders of the various campaigns will play a vital role.

    In fact, I'd say it's amazing how many people on here have made their minds up, and for whom no evidence or campaigning will change their views.
    But the evidence we do have is of Cameron and Osborne talking tough on the EU, and then delivering very little whilst proclaiming it as a success.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Tom Watson's position is surely untenable.

    He'll lie low, and cling on.

    An apology, should one ever be made, will be weasel words.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,386
    Thanks for your kind words on kids. On the bright side I have enjoyed mentoring in the past and with my teenage nephews, so perhaps all is not lost.

    Perhaps alcohol will help, as will many calls to our own ageing parents for advice and support!
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited October 2015

    But the evidence we do have is of Cameron and Osborne talking tough on the EU, and then delivering very little whilst proclaiming it as a success.

    From what I heard last night - from someone actually involved in the negotiations - I think you might be surprised. What is actually happening bears little relation to what the press are reporting.
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