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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Two CON losses – one to LAB the other to the SNP in latest

SystemSystem Posts: 12,220
edited October 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Two CON losses – one to LAB the other to the SNP in latest Local By-Election Results

George Street and Harbour (SNP defence) and Midstocket and Rosemount (Con defence) on City of Aberdeen
George Street and Harbour
Result:

Read the full story here


«1

Comments

  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    bring back Gordon 'Arnie' Brown to save the day - terminlabour 3.

    This is brilliant o/t

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-34425092

    new thread frenzy
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Second! Like the Scottish Tories...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,684
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    A poor result for the Conservatives in Banbury (and a good result for Labour). The SNP are obviously still flying high in Scotland.

    The Conservatives increased their vote share in all bar one of the Scottish results. Tory surgers, take note.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @hopisen: Don’t panic but almost a fifth of 2015 Lab voters would be dismayed if we won in 2020.

    Ah, who am I kidding? PANIC! http://t.co/4vxVjQJW7C
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Hopi Sen ‏@hopisen · 1m1 minute ago
    Don’t panic but almost a fifth of 2015 Lab voters would be dismayed if we won in 2020.

    Ah, who am I kidding? PANIC!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQUhY7bWUAAxeFE.jpg
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,419
    edited October 2015
    antifrank said:

    Hopi Sen ‏@hopisen · 1m1 minute ago
    Don’t panic but almost a fifth of 2015 Lab voters would be dismayed if we won in 2020.

    Ah, who am I kidding? PANIC!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQUhY7bWUAAxeFE.jpg

    7% of current Labour "voters" too. They'll be washing their hair for the whole of May 2020.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,994
    antifrank said:

    A poor result for the Conservatives in Banbury (and a good result for Labour). The SNP are obviously still flying high in Scotland.

    The Conservatives increased their vote share in all bar one of the Scottish results. Tory surgers, take note.

    Unfortunately, despite a 10% rise in the Tory vote, and a 4% swing from SNP to Con, the Labour collapse was enough to get the SNP over the line in Midstocket and Rosemount.

    Thanks, Jeremy....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,994
    antifrank said:

    Hopi Sen ‏@hopisen · 1m1 minute ago
    Don’t panic but almost a fifth of 2015 Lab voters would be dismayed if we won in 2020.

    Ah, who am I kidding? PANIC!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQUhY7bWUAAxeFE.jpg

    A full 16% of the electorate would be more dismayed about a Corbyn victory than would have been about a Miliband victory? Crikey....
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Labour landslide nailed on for 2020 then

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,994
    antifrank said:

    A poor result for the Conservatives in Banbury (and a good result for Labour).

    A timely reminder of "Vote UKIP, get Labour". There was no UKIP candidate last time.

    Of particular relevance when you look at the UKIP "dismayed" number in the Hopi Sen piece.

    61%. A full 61% of Kippers would be dismayed by Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.

    SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!!!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    antifrank said:

    Hopi Sen ‏@hopisen · 1m1 minute ago
    Don’t panic but almost a fifth of 2015 Lab voters would be dismayed if we won in 2020.

    Ah, who am I kidding? PANIC!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQUhY7bWUAAxeFE.jpg

    Headings are missing from the other columns but I'm guessing that shows an absolute majority of the other parties supporters would be dismayed too.

    Lab - Con swing, LD - Con swing and UKIP to Con swing all but nailed on if Corbyn lasts to 2020.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Mr. 1000, just because it's an election doesn't mean you get to make a choice :p
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,684
    Philip_Thompson said:

    antifrank said:

    Hopi Sen ‏@hopisen · 1m1 minute ago
    Don’t panic but almost a fifth of 2015 Lab voters would be dismayed if we won in 2020.

    Ah, who am I kidding? PANIC!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQUhY7bWUAAxeFE.jpg

    Headings are missing from the other columns but I'm guessing that shows an absolute majority of the other parties supporters would be dismayed too.

    Lab - Con swing, LD - Con swing and UKIP to Con swing all but nailed on if Corbyn lasts to 2020.
    I think the biggest consequence of a Corbyn led Labour party would be anti-Labour tactical voting.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    MarqueeMark said:

    antifrank said:

    A poor result for the Conservatives in Banbury (and a good result for Labour).

    A timely reminder of "Vote UKIP, get Labour". There was no UKIP candidate last time.

    Of particular relevance when you look at the UKIP "dismayed" number in the Hopi Sen piece.

    61%. A full 61% of Kippers would be dismayed by Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.

    SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!!!
    Squeezing works better if the race is tight. If we're on 40% of the vote, and Labour are on 25%, I can see people feeling comfortable voting UKIP.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited October 2015
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. 1000, just because it's an election doesn't mean you get to make a choice :p

    You saw my wine recommendation previously?

    Burgundy is fine. Vosne Romanee is where the magic happens.

    This is the wine-searcher description

    The classic Vosne-Romanee wine is considered by many to have the perfect balance of weight, structure, elegance and longevity. Tasting notes often refer to a combination of tart red fruits (particularly cherries and raspberries) and darker elements of undergrowth, licorice and smoke.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Mr. 1000, perhaps. Not sure I can see the Conservatives doing that or benefiting directly much (maybe from UKIP's ex-Cons). But it could be springtime for UKIP, if they sort themselves out, and help the Lib Dems recover.

    Does Corbyn make it easier or harder for the party to bounce back in Scotland?
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    MarqueeMark said:

    antifrank said:

    Hopi Sen ‏@hopisen · 1m1 minute ago
    Don’t panic but almost a fifth of 2015 Lab voters would be dismayed if we won in 2020.

    Ah, who am I kidding? PANIC!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQUhY7bWUAAxeFE.jpg

    A full 16% of the electorate would be more dismayed about a Corbyn victory than would have been about a Miliband victory? Crikey....
    We should remember that this is all meaningless. Wait until the Corbynites unleash their unstoppable ground game. Assuming we can define 'ground' to mean 'Twitter'.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    MarqueeMark said:

    antifrank said:

    A poor result for the Conservatives in Banbury (and a good result for Labour). The SNP are obviously still flying high in Scotland.

    The Conservatives increased their vote share in all bar one of the Scottish results. Tory surgers, take note.

    Unfortunately, despite a 10% rise in the Tory vote, and a 4% swing from SNP to Con, the Labour collapse was enough to get the SNP over the line in Midstocket and Rosemount.

    Thanks, Jeremy....
    Can't have happened too many times in the past - a swing towards the party previously in power resulting in them losing the seat.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Mr. Charles, yes... I've got an embarrassment of riches as far as suggestions go [in fantasy, I just make up the drinks].
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Just to make it clear:

    CORBYN IS MOST UNPOPULAR OPPOSITION LEADER SINCE POLLS BEGAN
    His personal approval rating is minus 8

    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/corbyn-is-most-unpopular-opposition-leader/
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited October 2015
    OT Very good docu on C4 Forced Marriage Cops - a year following specialist GMP team - on catch up or demand. 250 cases in 2014 alone http://www.channel4.com/programmes/forced-marriage-cops
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Charles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. 1000, just because it's an election doesn't mean you get to make a choice :p

    You saw my wine recommendation previously?

    Burgundy is fine. Vosne Romanee is where the magic happens.

    This is the wine-searcher description

    The classic Vosne-Romanee wine is considered by many to have the perfect balance of weight, structure, elegance and longevity. Tasting notes often refer to a combination of tart red fruits (particularly cherries and raspberries) and darker elements of undergrowth, licorice and smoke.
    I continued commenting on the last thread, but not worth repeating on this. But you are talking some pretty fancy wine there, and my personal favorite. I've had La Tache, but never been able to get Romanee-Conti. Is it even for sale, or subscription only?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    edited October 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Isn't the point of building a new hub to do it somewhere where it won't affect many people with the noise. Luton is a massive town.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited October 2015
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Charles, yes... I've got an embarrassment of riches as far as suggestions go [in fantasy, I just make up the drinks].

    Don't bother with over priced Burgundy. It's a bit 'all the gear, and no idea'.

    Rhone, Cornas from Clape for lamb chops.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited October 2015
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    I'd slap it in the nice empty area between Reading and Oxford. Access by M4 and M40 and M25 plus a goodly number of rail lines within striking distance. You could get tens of thousands of well-connected homes on the site of the old Heathrow.

    [Luton airport is perched on a hill; it's why the runway has never been extended. Prohibitively expensive earthworks required. But you're right about it being an utter, utter, sh1thole.]
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    JEO said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Isn't the point of building a new hub to do it somewhere where it won't affect many people with the noise. Luton is a massive town.
    Not as big as West London I guess. Luton is also a massive shithole, I honestly don't see how it could be made worse. A new airport would bring highly skilled jobs to the area, hotels and transit. We could also also have a spur from HS2 to the new Airport as well.

    I loathe the idea of spending extra money for no reason, but if we're not going to get a new runway then we might as well do it right. HS2 only makes sense if it hooks up to airports allowing people from Birmingham to also get to the new airport in less than an hour.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    watford30 said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Charles, yes... I've got an embarrassment of riches as far as suggestions go [in fantasy, I just make up the drinks].

    Don't bother with over priced Burgundy. It's a bit 'all the gear, and no idea'.

    Rhone, Cornas from Clape for lamb chops.
    So Black Tower is not the done thing with lamb then, then?
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    I'd slap it in the nice empty area between Reading and Oxford. Access by M4 and M40 and M25 plus a goodly number of rail lines within striking distance. You could get tens of thousands of well-connected homes on the site of the old Heathrow.

    [Luton airport is perched on a hill; it's why the runway has never been extended. Prohibitively expensive earthworks required. But you're right about it being an utter, utter, sh1thole.]
    There's a map here of empty spots:

    http://www.beacon-dodsworth.co.uk/uploads/images/blogs/SE3L60.jpg

    I've canvassed in Luton. Much of it is downtrodden but there are some surprisingly nice bits.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,684
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Nether Luton or Gatwick work, really. Luton is atop a hill, and would require ridiculously expensive works to raise the surrounding land. While Gatwick has the opposite problem of being in a hollow, making radar performance poor (and also potentially requiring significant earth moving if it's to become significantly larger).
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited October 2015
    Anorak said:

    watford30 said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Charles, yes... I've got an embarrassment of riches as far as suggestions go [in fantasy, I just make up the drinks].

    Don't bother with over priced Burgundy. It's a bit 'all the gear, and no idea'.

    Rhone, Cornas from Clape for lamb chops.
    So Black Tower is not the done thing with lamb then, then?
    This salutary tale sums up the world of over priced trophy wine, and those who buy it.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/unchanged/2012/07/wine-fraud-rudy-kurniawan-vintage-burgundies

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/06/03/318241738/how-atomic-particles-became-the-smoking-gun-in-wine-fraud-mystery

    So many 'experts' who had no idea. And as for the auction houses involved...
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    JEO said:

    Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    I'd slap it in the nice empty area between Reading and Oxford. Access by M4 and M40 and M25 plus a goodly number of rail lines within striking distance. You could get tens of thousands of well-connected homes on the site of the old Heathrow.

    [Luton airport is perched on a hill; it's why the runway has never been extended. Prohibitively expensive earthworks required. But you're right about it being an utter, utter, sh1thole.]
    There's a map here of empty spots:

    http://www.beacon-dodsworth.co.uk/uploads/images/blogs/SE3L60.jpg

    I've canvassed in Luton. Much of it is downtrodden but there are some surprisingly nice bits.
    "downtrodden" :D

    Are you an estate agent? Presumably you think Stonehenge "requires some modernisation".
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,684
    Charles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. 1000, just because it's an election doesn't mean you get to make a choice :p

    You saw my wine recommendation previously?

    Burgundy is fine. Vosne Romanee is where the magic happens.

    This is the wine-searcher description

    The classic Vosne-Romanee wine is considered by many to have the perfect balance of weight, structure, elegance and longevity. Tasting notes often refer to a combination of tart red fruits (particularly cherries and raspberries) and darker elements of undergrowth, licorice and smoke.
    Burgundy is expensive. I can barely afford DRC any more, and have been forced to accept inferior wines.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Nether Luton or Gatwick work, really. Luton is atop a hill, and would require ridiculously expensive works to raise the surrounding land. While Gatwick has the opposite problem of being in a hollow, making radar performance poor (and also potentially requiring significant earth moving if it's to become significantly larger).
    Stick it north of Amersham then.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    I cunningly avoid trophy wine by never drinking wine :p

    Whisky's nice, but I very rarely have that, either. There was a nice series called Whisky Deathmatch on Joe Abercrombie's blog a year or two ago.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    I had a bottle of Palazzo del Mare at a restaurant last night, it was very good.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Probably not a fresh observation this, but seeing Goldsmith saying people wanted someone who 'will bend George Osborne's ear and get a good deal for London' just makes it seem like people are already treating him as if he is PM. I know he's Chancellor and given a lot of free rein, but the PM could surely bend Osborne's ear for a mayor if won over.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Morris_Dancer said:

    I cunningly avoid trophy wine by never drinking wine :p

    Whisky's nice, but I very rarely have that, either. There was a nice series called Whisky Deathmatch on Joe Abercrombie's blog a year or two ago.

    That was quite a fun read. Can't enjoy the stuff without a few drops of water though, despite some purists having a fit over that practice.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited October 2015
    I buy my wine from the nearest vinyard...in five litre casks 7.5 euros..and my whisky from the coop at just under 6 euros
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,684
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. 1000, perhaps. Not sure I can see the Conservatives doing that or benefiting directly much (maybe from UKIP's ex-Cons). But it could be springtime for UKIP, if they sort themselves out, and help the Lib Dems recover.

    Does Corbyn make it easier or harder for the party to bounce back in Scotland?

    Corbyn will benefit UKIP in the North of England, the LibDems in Cambridge and West London, and the Conservatives in Lab-Con seats where UKIP or the LibDems have significant vote shares than can be squeezed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,684
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Nether Luton or Gatwick work, really. Luton is atop a hill, and would require ridiculously expensive works to raise the surrounding land. While Gatwick has the opposite problem of being in a hollow, making radar performance poor (and also potentially requiring significant earth moving if it's to become significantly larger).
    Stick it north of Amersham then.
    I agree that a whole new airport probably makes the best long term sense.

    But it's a tough sell for local residents. And you need a lot of space, and then to build roads, rail, etc.

    If we were going to go "new", I suspect the Boris Island is the best idea.

    Otherwise, Heathrow is already there, and has excellent transport links, and lots of existing infrastucture.
  • puzzledinhovepuzzledinhove Posts: 13
    MikeK said:

    Just to make it clear:

    CORBYN IS MOST UNPOPULAR OPPOSITION LEADER SINCE POLLS BEGAN
    His personal approval rating is minus 8

    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/corbyn-is-most-unpopular-opposition-leader/

    Of course no new leader has faced anything like this degree of hostility before from the press. Given that I would say its quite remarkable that labour's vi figures have stayed pretty much where they were at the elwction.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Nether Luton or Gatwick work, really. Luton is atop a hill, and would require ridiculously expensive works to raise the surrounding land. While Gatwick has the opposite problem of being in a hollow, making radar performance poor (and also potentially requiring significant earth moving if it's to become significantly larger).
    Stick it north of Amersham then.
    I agree that a whole new airport probably makes the best long term sense.

    But it's a tough sell for local residents. And you need a lot of space, and then to build roads, rail, etc.

    If we were going to go "new", I suspect the Boris Island is the best idea.

    Otherwise, Heathrow is already there, and has excellent transport links, and lots of existing infrastucture.
    If we've got Zac for 8 years then it delays Heathrow for at least that long, which is too long of a delay. We need to get on with it. Boris Island is an expensive white elephant in waiting, we have to build an airport on dry land, soon.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,684
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Nether Luton or Gatwick work, really. Luton is atop a hill, and would require ridiculously expensive works to raise the surrounding land. While Gatwick has the opposite problem of being in a hollow, making radar performance poor (and also potentially requiring significant earth moving if it's to become significantly larger).
    Stick it north of Amersham then.
    I agree that a whole new airport probably makes the best long term sense.

    But it's a tough sell for local residents. And you need a lot of space, and then to build roads, rail, etc.

    If we were going to go "new", I suspect the Boris Island is the best idea.

    Otherwise, Heathrow is already there, and has excellent transport links, and lots of existing infrastucture.
    If we've got Zac for 8 years then it delays Heathrow for at least that long, which is too long of a delay. We need to get on with it. Boris Island is an expensive white elephant in waiting, we have to build an airport on dry land, soon.
    How to deal with NIMBYs?
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited October 2015
    Thanks, as ever, Harry, for previewing and compiling the results of the by-elections.

    Here's a headline that might have been written to troll some erstwhile pb'ers:

    David Cameron is actually really good at politics

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11906477/David-Cameron-is-actually-really-good-at-politics.html
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    rcs1000,

    The problem with Heathrow is that
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Nether Luton or Gatwick work, really. Luton is atop a hill, and would require ridiculously expensive works to raise the surrounding land. While Gatwick has the opposite problem of being in a hollow, making radar performance poor (and also potentially requiring significant earth moving if it's to become significantly larger).
    Stick it north of Amersham then.
    I agree that a whole new airport probably makes the best long term sense.

    But it's a tough sell for local residents. And you need a lot of space, and then to build roads, rail, etc.

    If we were going to go "new", I suspect the Boris Island is the best idea.

    Otherwise, Heathrow is already there, and has excellent transport links, and lots of existing infrastucture.
    The problem with Heathrow is that hundreds of thousands of people are affected by noise pollution. Once you assign a price to that in terms of lost welfare, the economics of expansion don't work.

    If we built a new airport somewhere else, we would also free up a lot of land to solve London's housing crisis.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Nether Luton or Gatwick work, really. Luton is atop a hill, and would require ridiculously expensive works to raise the surrounding land. While Gatwick has the opposite problem of being in a hollow, making radar performance poor (and also potentially requiring significant earth moving if it's to become significantly larger).
    Stick it north of Amersham then.
    I agree that a whole new airport probably makes the best long term sense.

    But it's a tough sell for local residents. And you need a lot of space, and then to build roads, rail, etc.

    If we were going to go "new", I suspect the Boris Island is the best idea.

    Otherwise, Heathrow is already there, and has excellent transport links, and lots of existing infrastucture.
    If we've got Zac for 8 years then it delays Heathrow for at least that long, which is too long of a delay. We need to get on with it. Boris Island is an expensive white elephant in waiting, we have to build an airport on dry land, soon.
    How to deal with NIMBYs?
    Compulsory purchase orders at 125% valuations within a large exclusion zone. Just get it done. We've wasted far too much time. I flew back from Singapore recently and had to wait for 45 minutes circling above London for a landing slot. It is ridiculous.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Personally, I still don't see why we don't just spread capacity. You could certainly split freight and passenger traffic into two different hub airports.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited October 2015
    This “steady as you go” attitude drives Left-wing pundits absolutely mad but it’s much closer to the view of voters who don’t want to hear from government unless they absolutely need it. Labour promises that “another world is possible” and doesn't understand that most folks don’t want to live in another world. They just want this one. With a few tweaks.
    Tissue_Price said:

    Thanks, as ever, Harry, for previewing and compiling the results of the by-elections.

    Here's a headline that might have been written to troll some erstwhile pb'ers:

    David Cameron is actually really good at politics

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11906477/David-Cameron-is-actually-really-good-at-politics.html

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    JEO said:

    Personally, I still don't see why we don't just spread capacity. You could certainly split freight and passenger traffic into two different hub airports.

    Anyone who flies a lot realises we need capacity either at Heathrow or a new hub and Gatwick is shit.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    Personally, I still don't see why we don't just spread capacity. You could certainly split freight and passenger traffic into two different hub airports.

    Anyone who flies a lot realises we need capacity either at Heathrow or a new hub and Gatwick is shit.
    If the problem is that Gatwick is poor, then we should focus on improving operations at Gatwick. That's certainly a not reasonable solution than giving constant noise for hundreds of thousands of people.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MTimT said:

    Charles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. 1000, just because it's an election doesn't mean you get to make a choice :p

    You saw my wine recommendation previously?

    Burgundy is fine. Vosne Romanee is where the magic happens.

    This is the wine-searcher description

    The classic Vosne-Romanee wine is considered by many to have the perfect balance of weight, structure, elegance and longevity. Tasting notes often refer to a combination of tart red fruits (particularly cherries and raspberries) and darker elements of undergrowth, licorice and smoke.
    I continued commenting on the last thread, but not worth repeating on this. But you are talking some pretty fancy wine there, and my personal favorite. I've had La Tache, but never been able to get Romanee-Conti. Is it even for sale, or subscription only?
    I believe they have some in stock. It's a snip at €12,000 per bottle.

    http://www.vin-drc.com/fr/13_romanee-conti?&orderby=quantity&orderway=desc

    Although if you are in London at some point I have some 1990 V-R (not DRC) that needs drinking ;)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2015
    Plato_Says said:

    This “steady as you go” attitude drives Left-wing pundits absolutely mad but it’s much closer to the view of voters who don’t want to hear from government unless they absolutely need it. Labour promises that “another world is possible” and doesn't understand that most folks don’t want to live in another world. They just want this one. With a few tweaks.
    Tissue_Price said:

    Thanks, as ever, Harry, for previewing and compiling the results of the by-elections.

    Here's a headline that might have been written to troll some erstwhile pb'ers:

    David Cameron is actually really good at politics

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11906477/David-Cameron-is-actually-really-good-at-politics.html



    The problem with that last line would be if Cameron was pm of a country where most people live happily at the expense of misery for a minority of very poorly treated people

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,170
    JEO said:

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    Personally, I still don't see why we don't just spread capacity. You could certainly split freight and passenger traffic into two different hub airports.

    Anyone who flies a lot realises we need capacity either at Heathrow or a new hub and Gatwick is shit.
    If the problem is that Gatwick is poor, then we should focus on improving operations at Gatwick. That's certainly a not reasonable solution than giving constant noise for hundreds of thousands of people.
    http://www.gatwickobviously.com/
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited October 2015
    The point made about transport links is the most important. If Luton were selected then the idea of HR2 link is very persuasive.

    In the south here for example Bristol airport is a nice airport but fails because it's out in the sticks. To get to and from it you have to either have a car, take a taxi or catch a bus. It is also not really near to a motorway well yeah the m5 is sort of close by to a point after some real country roads.

    Southampton however is served by all modes of transport has a almost direct link to M27 and then to M3 to the north. and and added bonus of a train link that is virtually in the terminal (much like Gatwick.)

    I am roughly equally distant between the two airports but I do try to use Southampton now mainly due to the transport choice and thus ease of getting too and from the location.

    Bristol has more destinations but I can make the main European hubs quite easily.from Southampton.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,170
    edited October 2015
    UK and Ireland airports, passenger traffic 2014: 
    Airport		code	Passengers (2014)

    Heathrow	LHR 	73.4 million
    Gatwick		LGW 	38.1 million
    Manchester	MAN 	22.0 million
    Dublin 		DUB	21.7 million
    Stansted	STN 	19.9 million
    Luton		LTN 	10.5 million
    Edinburgh	EDI 	10.2 million
    Birmingham	BHX 	9.7 million
    Glasgow		GLA 	7.7 million
    Bristol		BRS	6.3 million
    Newcastle	NCL	4.5 million 
    East Midlands	EMA 	4.5 million
    Belfast Int'n'l	BFS	4.0 million
    Liverpool	LPL 	4.0 million
    Aberdeen	ABZ 	3.7 million
    London City	LCY 	3.6 million
    Leeds-Bradford	LBA 	3.3 million
    Belfast City	BHD	2.6 million
    Cork		ORK	2.1 million
    Southampton	SOU	1.8 million
    Shannon		SNN	1.6 million
    Jersey 		JER 	1.5 million
    Southend 	SEN 	1.1 million
    Cardiff		CWL	1.0 million
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    JEO said:

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    Personally, I still don't see why we don't just spread capacity. You could certainly split freight and passenger traffic into two different hub airports.

    Anyone who flies a lot realises we need capacity either at Heathrow or a new hub and Gatwick is shit.
    If the problem is that Gatwick is poor, then we should focus on improving operations at Gatwick. That's certainly a not reasonable solution than giving constant noise for hundreds of thousands of people.
    Gatwick is not shit because of its operations, it is shit because of the location. That cannot be improved, and as Robert pointed out it is below sea level so the radar reception is very poor.
  • scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    Sorry for short previous post

    I was going to add about BY ELECTIONS that the SNP should be celebrating after a rough week in publicity terms that they swept the board winning SIX elections from yesterday.

    Bad news for Labour who made little progress anywhere and indeed are going backwards. Bad news for the Tories that although they are showing some increases in the vote from a truly minute base they LOST a seat in Aberdeen to the SNP despite an incredibly well funded campaign and their vote actually fell to third place in Linlithgow where they should have had a chance of winning!. Bad news for the Liberals who seem to have given up on most seats and bad news for the Greens and UKIP who don't even feature.

    The only result which is truly comparable is the Glenrothes which was also contested in a by election in March just before the General Election. This shows the SNP moving forward and Labour moving backwards.

    Whisky all round for the NATS then!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,969
    JEO said:

    rcs1000,

    The problem with Heathrow is that

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Nether Luton or Gatwick work, really. Luton is atop a hill, and would require ridiculously expensive works to raise the surrounding land. While Gatwick has the opposite problem of being in a hollow, making radar performance poor (and also potentially requiring significant earth moving if it's to become significantly larger).
    Stick it north of Amersham then.
    I agree that a whole new airport probably makes the best long term sense.

    But it's a tough sell for local residents. And you need a lot of space, and then to build roads, rail, etc.

    If we were going to go "new", I suspect the Boris Island is the best idea.

    Otherwise, Heathrow is already there, and has excellent transport links, and lots of existing infrastucture.
    The problem with Heathrow is that hundreds of thousands of people are affected by noise pollution. Once you assign a price to that in terms of lost welfare, the economics of expansion don't work.

    If we built a new airport somewhere else, we would also free up a lot of land to solve London's housing crisis.
    Move it somewhere else and place a 100% tax on the house value uplift around Heathrow, perhaps.

    That fits in with quite a lot of current thinking.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Nether Luton or Gatwick work, really. Luton is atop a hill, and would require ridiculously expensive works to raise the surrounding land. While Gatwick has the opposite problem of being in a hollow, making radar performance poor (and also potentially requiring significant earth moving if it's to become significantly larger).
    Stick it north of Amersham then.
    I agree that a whole new airport probably makes the best long term sense.

    But it's a tough sell for local residents. And you need a lot of space, and then to build roads, rail, etc.

    If we were going to go "new", I suspect the Boris Island is the best idea.

    Otherwise, Heathrow is already there, and has excellent transport links, and lots of existing infrastucture.
    If we've got Zac for 8 years then it delays Heathrow for at least that long, which is too long of a delay. We need to get on with it. Boris Island is an expensive white elephant in waiting, we have to build an airport on dry land, soon.
    How to deal with NIMBYs?
    Bribe them.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,170
    edited October 2015
    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    Personally, I still don't see why we don't just spread capacity. You could certainly split freight and passenger traffic into two different hub airports.

    Anyone who flies a lot realises we need capacity either at Heathrow or a new hub and Gatwick is shit.
    If the problem is that Gatwick is poor, then we should focus on improving operations at Gatwick. That's certainly a not reasonable solution than giving constant noise for hundreds of thousands of people.
    Gatwick is not shit because of its operations, it is shit because of the location. That cannot be improved, and as Robert pointed out it is below sea level so the radar reception is very poor.
    It is NOT below sea level!

    Its elevation is 62 metres (203 feet) ABOVE sea level!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    JEO said:

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    Personally, I still don't see why we don't just spread capacity. You could certainly split freight and passenger traffic into two different hub airports.

    Anyone who flies a lot realises we need capacity either at Heathrow or a new hub and Gatwick is shit.
    If the problem is that Gatwick is poor, then we should focus on improving operations at Gatwick. That's certainly a not reasonable solution than giving constant noise for hundreds of thousands of people.
    Gatwick is not fixable at a reasonable cost.

    Wrong location, under-developed transport infrastructure, poor airport layout.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,969
    edited October 2015
    Plato_Says said:

    This “steady as you go” attitude drives Left-wing pundits absolutely mad but it’s much closer to the view of voters who don’t want to hear from government unless they absolutely need it. Labour promises that “another world is possible” and doesn't understand that most folks don’t want to live in another world. They just want this one. With a few tweaks.
    Except for catastrophes and a Corbynote victory in 2020, I expect Osbo to have created most of that "possible new world" by about 2025.

    I can't immediately recall a single thing promised by the new Lab team that is will not be circumscribed by the Govt even on current plans.

    Labour need some new foxes.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    Personally, I still don't see why we don't just spread capacity. You could certainly split freight and passenger traffic into two different hub airports.

    Anyone who flies a lot realises we need capacity either at Heathrow or a new hub and Gatwick is shit.
    If the problem is that Gatwick is poor, then we should focus on improving operations at Gatwick. That's certainly a not reasonable solution than giving constant noise for hundreds of thousands of people.
    Gatwick is not shit because of its operations, it is shit because of the location. That cannot be improved, and as Robert pointed out it is below sea level so the radar reception is very poor.
    It is NOT below sea level!

    Its elevation is 62 metres (203 feet) ABOVE sea level!
    OK, it's below all of the stuff around it! Gatwick is still a sub-optimal solution, much less than Heathrow or a new hub or even bloody Boris Island.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,170
    MaxPB said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    MaxPB said:

    JEO said:

    Personally, I still don't see why we don't just spread capacity. You could certainly split freight and passenger traffic into two different hub airports.

    Anyone who flies a lot realises we need capacity either at Heathrow or a new hub and Gatwick is shit.
    If the problem is that Gatwick is poor, then we should focus on improving operations at Gatwick. That's certainly a not reasonable solution than giving constant noise for hundreds of thousands of people.
    Gatwick is not shit because of its operations, it is shit because of the location. That cannot be improved, and as Robert pointed out it is below sea level so the radar reception is very poor.
    It is NOT below sea level!

    Its elevation is 62 metres (203 feet) ABOVE sea level!
    OK, it's below all of the stuff around it! Gatwick is still a sub-optimal solution, much less than Heathrow or a new hub or even bloody Boris Island.
    Heathrow by comparison is 25 m (83 ft) above sea level. Also it has no North/South rail links. OGH can catch a train direct from Bedford to Gatwick.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Have you seen this chap is running. Although currently a blank page as far as policies goes, but he might well be pro-Heathrow.

    http://www.paultavares.co.uk/
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    And on cue http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11907718/Dozens-of-bodies-to-go-unburied-because-of-gravedigger-shortage.html
    Dozens of bodies will not be buried by a council in Staffordshire this month because of a shortage of grave diggers.

    The Labour-run Newcastle Under Lyme Borough Council has told grieving relatives that no one can be buried in any of their eight cemeteries for three weeks, blaming funding cuts.

    The news has echoes of the Winter of Discontent in the late 1970s when bodies went unburied because of strike action by council workers.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Anorak said:


    ... But you're right about it being an utter, utter, sh1thole

    I think you may have confused it with Stansted

  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Charles said:

    MTimT said:

    Charles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. 1000, just because it's an election doesn't mean you get to make a choice :p

    You saw my wine recommendation previously?

    Burgundy is fine. Vosne Romanee is where the magic happens.

    This is the wine-searcher description

    The classic Vosne-Romanee wine is considered by many to have the perfect balance of weight, structure, elegance and longevity. Tasting notes often refer to a combination of tart red fruits (particularly cherries and raspberries) and darker elements of undergrowth, licorice and smoke.
    I continued commenting on the last thread, but not worth repeating on this. But you are talking some pretty fancy wine there, and my personal favorite. I've had La Tache, but never been able to get Romanee-Conti. Is it even for sale, or subscription only?
    I believe they have some in stock. It's a snip at €12,000 per bottle.

    http://www.vin-drc.com/fr/13_romanee-conti?&orderby=quantity&orderway=desc

    Although if you are in London at some point I have some 1990 V-R (not DRC) that needs drinking ;)
    Are you going to be in Manchester next week, Charles? If so could you bring a bottle or two along to the pb meet? :)
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    edited October 2015
    Beverley_C said:

    Anorak said:


    ... But you're right about it being an utter, utter, sh1thole

    I think you may have confused it with Stansted

    Stansted is defo much nicer than Luton.
    Luton is certainly a dump.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Nether Luton or Gatwick work, really. Luton is atop a hill, and would require ridiculously expensive works to raise the surrounding land. While Gatwick has the opposite problem of being in a hollow, making radar performance poor (and also potentially requiring significant earth moving if it's to become significantly larger).
    Stick it north of Amersham then.
    I agree that a whole new airport probably makes the best long term sense.

    But it's a tough sell for local residents. And you need a lot of space, and then to build roads, rail, etc.

    If we were going to go "new", I suspect the Boris Island is the best idea.

    Otherwise, Heathrow is already there, and has excellent transport links, and lots of existing infrastucture.
    If we've got Zac for 8 years then it delays Heathrow for at least that long, which is too long of a delay. We need to get on with it. Boris Island is an expensive white elephant in waiting, we have to build an airport on dry land, soon.
    We need to make the right decision for the long term rather than rush to the wrong one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    flightpath01 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Nether Luton or Gatwick work, really. Luton is atop a hill, and would require ridiculously expensive works to raise the surrounding land. While Gatwick has the opposite problem of being in a hollow, making radar performance poor (and also potentially requiring significant earth moving if it's to become significantly larger).
    Stick it north of Amersham then.
    I agree that a whole new airport probably makes the best long term sense.

    But it's a tough sell for local residents. And you need a lot of space, and then to build roads, rail, etc.

    If we were going to go "new", I suspect the Boris Island is the best idea.

    Otherwise, Heathrow is already there, and has excellent transport links, and lots of existing infrastucture.
    If we've got Zac for 8 years then it delays Heathrow for at least that long, which is too long of a delay. We need to get on with it. Boris Island is an expensive white elephant in waiting, we have to build an airport on dry land, soon.
    We need to make the right decision for the long term rather than rush to the wrong one.
    We aren't rushing anything, it's already taken an age.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Tissue_Price said:

    Charles said:

    MTimT said:

    Charles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. 1000, just because it's an election doesn't mean you get to make a choice :p

    You saw my wine recommendation previously?

    Burgundy is fine. Vosne Romanee is where the magic happens.

    This is the wine-searcher description

    The classic Vosne-Romanee wine is considered by many to have the perfect balance of weight, structure, elegance and longevity. Tasting notes often refer to a combination of tart red fruits (particularly cherries and raspberries) and darker elements of undergrowth, licorice and smoke.
    I continued commenting on the last thread, but not worth repeating on this. But you are talking some pretty fancy wine there, and my personal favorite. I've had La Tache, but never been able to get Romanee-Conti. Is it even for sale, or subscription only?
    I believe they have some in stock. It's a snip at €12,000 per bottle.

    http://www.vin-drc.com/fr/13_romanee-conti?&orderby=quantity&orderway=desc

    Although if you are in London at some point I have some 1990 V-R (not DRC) that needs drinking ;)
    Are you going to be in Manchester next week, Charles? If so could you bring a bottle or two along to the pb meet? :)
    Sorry... already committed to have lunch in Switzerland that day.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,170
    My Railways Anonymous meetings seem to be getting nowhere - Crewe to Wigan done today :)

    Saw an ex-Thameslink Class 319 train on Wigan to Liverpool duties. Also saw the River Mersey near Warrington.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

    Beverley_C said:

    Anorak said:


    ... But you're right about it being an utter, utter, sh1thole

    I think you may have confused it with Stansted

    Stansted is defo much nicer than Luton.
    Luton is certainly a dump.
    Luton must have gone seriously down hill in the last few years then. I was in Stansted a couple of months ago and it was not an experience I am looking to repeat.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,170
    edited October 2015
    Plato_Says said:

    And on cue http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11907718/Dozens-of-bodies-to-go-unburied-because-of-gravedigger-shortage.html

    Dozens of bodies will not be buried by a council in Staffordshire this month because of a shortage of grave diggers.

    The Labour-run Newcastle Under Lyme Borough Council has told grieving relatives that no one can be buried in any of their eight cemeteries for three weeks, blaming funding cuts.

    The news has echoes of the Winter of Discontent in the late 1970s when bodies went unburied because of strike action by council workers.
    Three-Day Week was under the Tories, right? ;)
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Charles said:

    MTimT said:

    Charles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. 1000, just because it's an election doesn't mean you get to make a choice :p

    You saw my wine recommendation previously?

    Burgundy is fine. Vosne Romanee is where the magic happens.

    This is the wine-searcher description

    The classic Vosne-Romanee wine is considered by many to have the perfect balance of weight, structure, elegance and longevity. Tasting notes often refer to a combination of tart red fruits (particularly cherries and raspberries) and darker elements of undergrowth, licorice and smoke.
    I continued commenting on the last thread, but not worth repeating on this. But you are talking some pretty fancy wine there, and my personal favorite. I've had La Tache, but never been able to get Romanee-Conti. Is it even for sale, or subscription only?
    I believe they have some in stock. It's a snip at €12,000 per bottle.

    http://www.vin-drc.com/fr/13_romanee-conti?&orderby=quantity&orderway=desc

    Although if you are in London at some point I have some 1990 V-R (not DRC) that needs drinking ;)
    Very tempting. I used to have a vertical spanning 10 years (85-95), alas all drunk now.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,994
    Plato_Says said:

    And on cue http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11907718/Dozens-of-bodies-to-go-unburied-because-of-gravedigger-shortage.html

    Dozens of bodies will not be buried by a council in Staffordshire this month because of a shortage of grave diggers.

    The Labour-run Newcastle Under Lyme Borough Council has told grieving relatives that no one can be buried in any of their eight cemeteries for three weeks, blaming funding cuts.

    The news has echoes of the Winter of Discontent in the late 1970s when bodies went unburied because of strike action by council workers.
    Smacks of a Labour council playing politics.....
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Charles said:


    Sorry... already committed to have lunch in Switzerland that day.

    Just instruct your jet pilot that you want to be back for drinks in Manchester. The airport has a Metro line to the city centre.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    French police find 31 migrants from Syria and Vietnam bound for Britain hidden inside a refrigerated truck outside Dunkirk

    Group, including a three-year-old child, were discovered in Grande Synthe
    All found in good health despite the truck's low temperature and released
    Two months after 71 migrants found dead in truck near Austrian border

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3257766/French-police-31-migrants-Syria-Vietnam-bound-Britain-hidden-inside-refrigerated-truck-outside-Dunkirk.html#ixzz3nQhjPOxr

  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    My Railways Anonymous meetings seem to be getting nowhere - Crewe to Wigan done today :)

    Saw an ex-Thameslink Class 319 train on Wigan to Liverpool duties. Also saw the River Mersey near Warrington.

    Up in my neck of the woods Sunil .... well, close enough...
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    puzzledinhove said:

    MikeK said:

    Just to make it clear:

    CORBYN IS MOST UNPOPULAR OPPOSITION LEADER SINCE POLLS BEGAN
    His personal approval rating is minus 8

    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/corbyn-is-most-unpopular-opposition-leader/

    Of course no new leader has faced anything like this degree of hostility before from the press. Given that I would say its quite remarkable that labour's vi figures have stayed pretty much where they were at the elwction.
    Labour's vote intention figures in the opinion polls are several points down on the matching opinion polls from May.

    If a real electoral vote matched the opinion poll overstatement from May then Labour are probably on about 27-28%.

    That's Michael Foot territory.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    chestnut said:

    puzzledinhove said:

    MikeK said:

    Just to make it clear:

    CORBYN IS MOST UNPOPULAR OPPOSITION LEADER SINCE POLLS BEGAN
    His personal approval rating is minus 8

    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/corbyn-is-most-unpopular-opposition-leader/

    Of course no new leader has faced anything like this degree of hostility before from the press. Given that I would say its quite remarkable that labour's vi figures have stayed pretty much where they were at the elwction.
    Labour's vote intention figures in the opinion polls are several points down on the matching opinion polls from May.

    If a real electoral vote matched the opinion poll overstatement from May then Labour are probably on about 27-28%.

    That's Michael Foot territory.
    The opinion polls would be rebased to the general election result.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Plato_Says said:

    French police find 31 migrants from Syria and Vietnam bound for Britain hidden inside a refrigerated truck outside Dunkirk

    Group, including a three-year-old child, were discovered in Grande Synthe
    All found in good health despite the truck's low temperature and released
    Two months after 71 migrants found dead in truck near Austrian border

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3257766/French-police-31-migrants-Syria-Vietnam-bound-Britain-hidden-inside-refrigerated-truck-outside-Dunkirk.html#ixzz3nQhjPOxr

    I thought the migrant crisis in Europe wasn't going to affect the UK? That's what we're often told on here.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,170
    Beverley_C said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    My Railways Anonymous meetings seem to be getting nowhere - Crewe to Wigan done today :)

    Saw an ex-Thameslink Class 319 train on Wigan to Liverpool duties. Also saw the River Mersey near Warrington.

    Up in my neck of the woods Sunil .... well, close enough...
    Next "targets" should include Chester, Liverpool and Manchester
    :)
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Beverley_C said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    My Railways Anonymous meetings seem to be getting nowhere - Crewe to Wigan done today :)

    Saw an ex-Thameslink Class 319 train on Wigan to Liverpool duties. Also saw the River Mersey near Warrington.

    Up in my neck of the woods Sunil .... well, close enough...
    Next "targets" should include Chester, Liverpool and Manchester
    :)
    Oo-err!!
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    kle4 said:

    flightpath01 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/11907219/Zac-Goldsmith-challenges-David-Cameron-over-Europe-Heathrow-and-housing-after-winning-mayoral-nomination.html

    Damn it: I want a London Mayor who's in favour of Heathrow expansion.

    Me too, but what this does is put a new hub on the agenda. I would like to see a lengthening of the existing runways to temporarily allow increased capacity and eventually we build a massive fuck off 6 runway airport on the site of Luton. Luton is a shit hole anyway, it would be greatly improved with a noisy airport.
    Nether Luton or Gatwick work, really. Luton is atop a hill, and would require ridiculously expensive works to raise the surrounding land. While Gatwick has the opposite problem of being in a hollow, making radar performance poor (and also potentially requiring significant earth moving if it's to become significantly larger).
    Stick it north of Amersham then.
    I agree that a whole new airport probably makes the best long term sense.

    But it's a tough sell for local residents. And you need a lot of space, and then to build roads, rail, etc.

    If we were going to go "new", I suspect the Boris Island is the best idea.

    Otherwise, Heathrow is already there, and has excellent transport links, and lots of existing infrastucture.
    If we've got Zac for 8 years then it delays Heathrow for at least that long, which is too long of a delay. We need to get on with it. Boris Island is an expensive white elephant in waiting, we have to build an airport on dry land, soon.
    We need to make the right decision for the long term rather than rush to the wrong one.
    We aren't rushing anything, it's already taken an age.
    But not since the government review
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Quite. It's not like there's been a plague outbreak in Newcastle-under-Lyme.
    MarqueeMark said:

    Plato_Says said:

    And on cue http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11907718/Dozens-of-bodies-to-go-unburied-because-of-gravedigger-shortage.html

    Dozens of bodies will not be buried by a council in Staffordshire this month because of a shortage of grave diggers.

    The Labour-run Newcastle Under Lyme Borough Council has told grieving relatives that no one can be buried in any of their eight cemeteries for three weeks, blaming funding cuts.

    The news has echoes of the Winter of Discontent in the late 1970s when bodies went unburied because of strike action by council workers.
    Smacks of a Labour council playing politics.....

  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Charles said:

    Tissue_Price said:

    Charles said:

    MTimT said:

    Charles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. 1000, just because it's an election doesn't mean you get to make a choice :p

    You saw my wine recommendation previously?

    Burgundy is fine. Vosne Romanee is where the magic happens.

    This is the wine-searcher description

    The classic Vosne-Romanee wine is considered by many to have the perfect balance of weight, structure, elegance and longevity. Tasting notes often refer to a combination of tart red fruits (particularly cherries and raspberries) and darker elements of undergrowth, licorice and smoke.
    I continued commenting on the last thread, but not worth repeating on this. But you are talking some pretty fancy wine there, and my personal favorite. I've had La Tache, but never been able to get Romanee-Conti. Is it even for sale, or subscription only?
    I believe they have some in stock. It's a snip at €12,000 per bottle.

    http://www.vin-drc.com/fr/13_romanee-conti?&orderby=quantity&orderway=desc

    Although if you are in London at some point I have some 1990 V-R (not DRC) that needs drinking ;)
    Are you going to be in Manchester next week, Charles? If so could you bring a bottle or two along to the pb meet? :)
    Sorry... already committed to have lunch in Switzerland that day.
    I do sympathise.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    We have some Taylors Port from four..five decades ago at least..one is from53.. sitting under the stairs.. probably undrinkable now..
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited October 2015
    JEO said:

    chestnut said:

    puzzledinhove said:

    MikeK said:

    Just to make it clear:

    CORBYN IS MOST UNPOPULAR OPPOSITION LEADER SINCE POLLS BEGAN
    His personal approval rating is minus 8

    http://www.sunnation.co.uk/corbyn-is-most-unpopular-opposition-leader/

    Of course no new leader has faced anything like this degree of hostility before from the press. Given that I would say its quite remarkable that labour's vi figures have stayed pretty much where they were at the elwction.
    Labour's vote intention figures in the opinion polls are several points down on the matching opinion polls from May.

    If a real electoral vote matched the opinion poll overstatement from May then Labour are probably on about 27-28%.

    That's Michael Foot territory.
    The opinion polls would be rebased to the general election result.
    That's what they always say, and yet the same happens over and over again.

    If anyone really believes that 15% of 2015 Tory voters have already changed their minds since May, as polling internals imply, they're mad.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited October 2015
    MarqueeMark said:

    Plato_Says said:

    And on cue http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11907718/Dozens-of-bodies-to-go-unburied-because-of-gravedigger-shortage.html

    Dozens of bodies will not be buried by a council in Staffordshire this month because of a shortage of grave diggers.

    The Labour-run Newcastle Under Lyme Borough Council has told grieving relatives that no one can be buried in any of their eight cemeteries for three weeks, blaming funding cuts.

    The news has echoes of the Winter of Discontent in the late 1970s when bodies went unburied because of strike action by council workers.
    Smacks of a Labour council playing politics.....

    They want to be careful in case this is one of those lefty places where the cemetery does vote :D
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    The most interesting of these results is that in Stirling East as the Stirling constituency is a reasonably decent three way fight between Tory, Labour and SNP. The SNP have never held the seat at WM but have been plugging away and have held it at Holyrood since 2007.

    The movement between the first and final count shows the problem that Unionists will have. The SNP edged the Green transfers but the problem for the unionists is that the Tory votes are not transferring to Labour. Less than half of the Tory transfers went to Labour with most of them simply not registering a further preference.

    This is vital if you are going to see any significant tactical voting at the 2016 Holyrood election. Tories find it hard to stomach voting Labour and this needs to be considered in any analysis of the constituency vote in 2016. If a Tory won't give Labour a second preference vote, they won't vote Labour tactically.

    Much like HYUFD's ridiculous fantasy that Corbyn could shore up Labour in Scotland (clearly not judging by yesterday), the idea that tactical voting will save the Loyalist parties is an utter and misguided lunacy.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    Dair said:

    The most interesting of these results is that in Stirling East as the Stirling constituency is a reasonably decent three way fight between Tory, Labour and SNP. The SNP have never held the seat at WM but have been plugging away and have held it at Holyrood since 2007.

    Except since 2015 of course when the SNP won it with a majority of 20%
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Plato_Says said:

    And on cue http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11907718/Dozens-of-bodies-to-go-unburied-because-of-gravedigger-shortage.html

    Dozens of bodies will not be buried by a council in Staffordshire this month because of a shortage of grave diggers.

    The Labour-run Newcastle Under Lyme Borough Council has told grieving relatives that no one can be buried in any of their eight cemeteries for three weeks, blaming funding cuts.

    The news has echoes of the Winter of Discontent in the late 1970s when bodies went unburied because of strike action by council workers.
    lts blatant miserable incompetence.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    Sorry to join in late but of all the suggestions, my vote goes for the Beaujolais also. But it can be a bit unfruity (technical term).

    Burgundy, rhone, etc too strong for the more, ahem, feminine tastes.

    So...I'd go for Alsace (a white one).
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    This is yet another bad piece of news in a 6 months of continuous bad news for Hillary - she is bleeding support from Blacks. From the graphs, Biden would be the biggest beneficiary if he chose to enter the fray:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/01/hillary-clintons-support-from-black-voters-plunges-in-a-new-poll/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited October 2015
    slightly closer to topic, I simply do not understand how Lab can square having a policy of renewing Trident, and a Leader who won't push the button.

    Well of course they can't. But they didn't sign up in their tens of thousands for Jezza only for him to perform the mother of all u-turns.

    It is simply a logical impossibility - either policy must be no nukes and Jezza stays leader, or nukes and he goes.

    There simply is no grey area. My (new) hero Stevie K got this, Dan noted it the other day (after we had all batted it around on here), and I still think it has the ability to dethrone him.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2015
    JEO said:

    Plato_Says said:

    French police find 31 migrants from Syria and Vietnam bound for Britain hidden inside a refrigerated truck outside Dunkirk

    Group, including a three-year-old child, were discovered in Grande Synthe
    All found in good health despite the truck's low temperature and released
    Two months after 71 migrants found dead in truck near Austrian border

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3257766/French-police-31-migrants-Syria-Vietnam-bound-Britain-hidden-inside-refrigerated-truck-outside-Dunkirk.html#ixzz3nQhjPOxr

    I thought the migrant crisis in Europe wasn't going to affect the UK? That's what we're often told on here.

    There was a three year old on board so we should take as many economic migrants as want to come #virtuesignallersanonymous
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