Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, could be a tricky on

13»

Comments

  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Anorak said:

    Which of these two is more delusional.. Corbyn and his mob or "The Great Leader" who "saved the world" and his mob..
    Difficult call really...

    And neither of *them* thought a giant rock with vague promises carved on it would be a really spiffy idea.
    Ed was just crap, he wasn't delusional. Corbyn is barking, so was Gordon.
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    Good evening, everyone.

    The potential for water on Mars is very significant news.

    It is arguably the worst news that mankind has ever had.
    Why?

    Because it reduces the chance the Great Filter is behind us.
  • Options
    Mr. JEO, just read the Wikipedia summary. Interesting theory (I had heard of the Fermi Paradox already, which reminds me of the forthcoming Singularity, when we might make killer robots smarter than we are).
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    Which of these two is more delusional.. Corbyn and his mob or "The Great Leader" who "saved the world" and his mob..
    Difficult call really...

    And neither of *them* thought a giant rock with vague promises carved on it would be a really spiffy idea.
    Ed was just crap, he wasn't delusional. Corbyn is barking, so was Gordon.
    He was deluded enough to think he might be a good prime minister...
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2015

    Mr. JEO, just read the Wikipedia summary. Interesting theory (I had heard of the Fermi Paradox already, which reminds me of the forthcoming Singularity, when we might make killer robots smarter than we are).

    Read the link antifrank posted. Jolly interesting and fairly hard to argue against. And THEN read the article on procrastination, which chimed with me so much it appeared Mike Oldfield was recording another album in my kitchen.

    http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrastinate.html
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    watford30 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    People have said this about Apple for years, I'm still waiting for their value to drop and their phones to stop being popular.

    Apple seem to have created a ... dare I say it... religion.
    Apple create products that work out of the box, first time. Yes, one pays a premium but relative to the time that isn't spent wasted trying to get the technology to work properly, it's money well spent.
    As long as you hold it correctly.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    notme said:

    watford30 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    People have said this about Apple for years, I'm still waiting for their value to drop and their phones to stop being popular.

    Apple seem to have created a ... dare I say it... religion.
    Apple create products that work out of the box, first time. Yes, one pays a premium but relative to the time that isn't spent wasted trying to get the technology to work properly, it's money well spent.
    As long as you hold it correctly.
    As I need to keep telling my wife. Shouldn't have opened the wine bottle this early in the evening.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    That's very funny. I don't procrastinate very often, but I do love the thrill of deadlines.
    Anorak said:

    Mr. JEO, just read the Wikipedia summary. Interesting theory (I had heard of the Fermi Paradox already, which reminds me of the forthcoming Singularity, when we might make killer robots smarter than we are).

    Read the link antifrank posted. Jolly interesting and fairly hard to argue against. And THEN read the article on procrastination, which chimed with me so much it appeared Mike Oldfield was recording another album in my kitchen.

    http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrastinate.html
  • Options
    Mr. Anorak, the super-predator line reminds me of the Reapers from Mass Effect.

    It's a very interesting piece.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,281
    Sir David Hare 'At last Labour has a leader who will offer genuine opposition - Jeremy Corbyn's unpractised artlessness is the answer to David Cameron's slickness, trendiness and insincerity'
    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/at-last-labour-has-a-leader-who-will-offer-genuine-opposition-a2957226.html
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    GeoffM said:


    surbiton said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    Scott_P said:

    @GdnPolitics: Labour 'will make Google, Starbucks and Amazon pay fair tax share' http://t.co/62EqqT1Cns

    Labour will make Internet access, coffee and entertainment more expensive for everyone in the country...

    Awesome

    If Amazon was forced to pay a fair level of UK Corporation Tax, they would have to put up prices to maintain their current level of after tax profit. That would be great as it would allow UK companies including many independent booksellers to compete on a more level playing field.
    Corporation tax is on profit.

    Amazon invest rather than make profits, ergo no Corporation Tax is due while the strategy persists.
    They make "no" profits after clever transfer pricing. That is where a global agreement is needed . All countries are losers except ultimately, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Andorra, Cayman Islands, Bahamas, etc....
    Agree. So the ideal solution is 0% corporation tax - which is a tax on success.
    Really ? Why not give them some money as well ? Tax the poor and fund the corporates.

    Oh ! that's not new , is it ?
  • Options
    Mr. HYUFD, Flavius Phocas was sincere too. It's not much use if you're off your rocker.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,281

    kle4 said:

    Ooh, that would spice things up a bit. And it was already pretty spicy.
    What does it mean in terms of seats (ridings) though?
    128/110/98 according to this:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/poll-tracker/2015/index.html

    Thank you.

    Coalition Government then. Or NDP minority.
    The Liberals were ahead yesterday with Nanos, the Tories today, so it is neck and neck as to whether Trudeau or Harper will lead the largest party, but neither look likely to have a majority and the NDP will probably hold the balance of power
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_the_Canadian_federal_election,_2015
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    His speech contained some of the most deranged, dangerous nonsense ever spouted from the floor of a Labour party conference. I was never a fan of Ed Balls, but he understood the art of economic combat better than anyone in the Commons and knew that Labour had to win an election. By contrast, McDonnell is a fantasy shadow chancellor fighting battles that exist chiefly in his head. He referred to something called the ‘corporate welfare system’, which – of course – doesn’t exist. He vowed to cut ‘use of taxpayers’ money subsidising poverty paying bosses’ which doesn’t exist either. He threatened to impose rent controls, a system that has crippled rental markets in the cities where it is tried.
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/john-mcdonnells-speech-gave-a-taste-of-the-madness-that-has-taken-over-the-labour-party/
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    surbiton said:

    GeoffM said:


    surbiton said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    Scott_P said:

    @GdnPolitics: Labour 'will make Google, Starbucks and Amazon pay fair tax share' http://t.co/62EqqT1Cns

    Labour will make Internet access, coffee and entertainment more expensive for everyone in the country...

    Awesome

    If Amazon was forced to pay a fair level of UK Corporation Tax, they would have to put up prices to maintain their current level of after tax profit. That would be great as it would allow UK companies including many independent booksellers to compete on a more level playing field.
    Corporation tax is on profit.

    Amazon invest rather than make profits, ergo no Corporation Tax is due while the strategy persists.
    They make "no" profits after clever transfer pricing. That is where a global agreement is needed . All countries are losers except ultimately, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Andorra, Cayman Islands, Bahamas, etc....
    Agree. So the ideal solution is 0% corporation tax - which is a tax on success.
    Really ? Why not give them some money as well ? Tax the poor and fund the corporates.

    Oh ! that's not new , is it ?
    We should be aiming to get as close as possible to letting everyone keep all of their own money.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited September 2015
    He vowed to cut ‘use of taxpayers’ money subsidising poverty paying bosses’
    So, McDonnell favours cuts to tax credits?
  • Options

    Iain's blocked her too - LOL

    Twitter spat still ongoing between Iain Dale and Louise Mensch. He told her to f---- right off - charming man! He has just had David Blanchflower on his show and described him as someone we respect on LBC!! lol
    Watching President Obama and David Cameron at the UN and then watching the Labour Party conference is like living in a parallel universe.

    I am vaguely remembering a tory policy which got Mr Dale quite worked up before the election. For the life of me I cannot remember what it was... But I do remember him coming across all 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' and saying he would not vote Tory if it was in the manifesto.
    He has something of a hysteric side to him. As I have said before he pays far too much respect to political opponents that in reality treat him as a useful idiot.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    LOL
    Just in case anyone missed McDonnell’s hints, he ended his speech saying ‘as socialists’ – yes, the S-word – he will ‘display our competence with our compassion’. The word ‘socialist’ and the word ‘competence’ are not ones that easily fit together – as the British learned to their cost in the 1970s. So McDonnell’s speech can be summarised in one sentence: do you fancy giving the 1970s another try? I doubt he’ll be around come polling day to find out.
    Scott_P said:

    His speech contained some of the most deranged, dangerous nonsense ever spouted from the floor of a Labour party conference. I was never a fan of Ed Balls, but he understood the art of economic combat better than anyone in the Commons and knew that Labour had to win an election. By contrast, McDonnell is a fantasy shadow chancellor fighting battles that exist chiefly in his head. He referred to something called the ‘corporate welfare system’, which – of course – doesn’t exist. He vowed to cut ‘use of taxpayers’ money subsidising poverty paying bosses’ which doesn’t exist either. He threatened to impose rent controls, a system that has crippled rental markets in the cities where it is tried.
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/john-mcdonnells-speech-gave-a-taste-of-the-madness-that-has-taken-over-the-labour-party/

  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    HYUFD said:

    Sir David Hare 'At last Labour has a leader who will offer genuine opposition - Jeremy Corbyn's unpractised artlessness is the answer to David Cameron's slickness, trendiness and insincerity'
    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/at-last-labour-has-a-leader-who-will-offer-genuine-opposition-a2957226.html

    David Hare, privately educated luvvie who was knighted by Labour in 1998.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,281
    perdix said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sir David Hare 'At last Labour has a leader who will offer genuine opposition - Jeremy Corbyn's unpractised artlessness is the answer to David Cameron's slickness, trendiness and insincerity'
    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/at-last-labour-has-a-leader-who-will-offer-genuine-opposition-a2957226.html

    David Hare, privately educated luvvie who was knighted by Labour in 1998.

    Yes, if you want an objective article this is not it
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,281

    Mr. HYUFD, Flavius Phocas was sincere too. It's not much use if you're off your rocker.

    Indeed, the main argument for IDS was he was honest, did not do him much good
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    *trendy* isn't a word I've seen in the same sentence as Cameron.
    perdix said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sir David Hare 'At last Labour has a leader who will offer genuine opposition - Jeremy Corbyn's unpractised artlessness is the answer to David Cameron's slickness, trendiness and insincerity'
    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/at-last-labour-has-a-leader-who-will-offer-genuine-opposition-a2957226.html

    David Hare, privately educated luvvie who was knighted by Labour in 1998.

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,667
    HYUFD said:

    Sir David Hare 'At last Labour has a leader who will offer genuine opposition - Jeremy Corbyn's unpractised artlessness is the answer to David Cameron's slickness, trendiness and insincerity'
    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/at-last-labour-has-a-leader-who-will-offer-genuine-opposition-a2957226.html

    Corbyn will offer genuine opposition - to a reality-based universe....
  • Options
    I suppose George Eaton must be a Tory writing in the Tory press:

    When Ed Miliband delivered his conference speech last year, he was castigated for failing to mention the deficit. It was a charge that McDonnell quickly insulated himself from. Labour, he vowed, would "tackle the deficit" through "aggressive" action to "force people like Starbucks, Vodafone, Amazon and Google and all the others to pay their fair share of taxes." But there was no explanation of how. Combined with the promise of "people's quantitative easing" in times of anaemic growth, the impression that Labour relies on a magic money tree risks only being reinforced.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/09/john-mcdonnells-speech-big-vision-short-detail
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Carla Chamorro ‏@CarlaChamorros 3h3 hours ago
    Obama is deporting Christians back to ISIS on a technicality.

    Obama Throws Christian Refugees to Lions http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260266/obama-throws-christian-refugees-lions-raymond-ibrahim#.VglN-

    Paul Joseph Watson ‏@PrisonPlanet 6h6 hours ago
    Eyewitness: Migrants Threatened to Take Me Hostage and Rape Me - http://www.infowars.com/eyewitness-migrants-threatened-to-take-me-hostage-and-rape-me/
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2015

    *trendy* isn't a word I've seen in the same sentence as Cameron.

    Compared with Corbyn's 1970s mindset, I suppose Cameron is 'trendy'. Come to think of it, 'trendy' is a typical 1970s word.
  • Options

    I suppose George Eaton must be a Tory writing in the Tory press:

    When Ed Miliband delivered his conference speech last year, he was castigated for failing to mention the deficit. It was a charge that McDonnell quickly insulated himself from. Labour, he vowed, would "tackle the deficit" through "aggressive" action to "force people like Starbucks, Vodafone, Amazon and Google and all the others to pay their fair share of taxes." But there was no explanation of how. Combined with the promise of "people's quantitative easing" in times of anaemic growth, the impression that Labour relies on a magic money tree risks only being reinforced.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/09/john-mcdonnells-speech-big-vision-short-detail

    QE *is* a magic money tree!
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    kle4 said:

    weejonnie said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    surbiton said:

    GeoffM said:

    Today is the anniversary of William the Conqueror's invasion in 1066. Just sayin'

    Illegal immigrant !
    I think you get off if you bring your own country...
    The most shameful moment in the history of England.

    We were conquered by a French Bastard.
    Not true Frenchies. I grant you they spoke french, lived in france and served the french king, but they were still more Norse than french, damnit!
    IIRC hadn't Harold had to march up North to thrash the Scots (Battle of Stamford Bridge) before immediately returning South.
    Vikings, not Scots. Otherwise correct.

    Harold pulled off a pretty impressive feat of generalship simply taking the field at Hastings after what he'd been through over the previous two months. I wouldn't regard 1066 as any more shameful than any of the other invasions that England suffered during the earlier part of the eleventh centuries. The only thing that marked it as being particularly different was that it was the last successful one - and that could only be seen in retrospect.
    Cue someone bringing up William of Orange in 'successful invasions'
    Romans, Germans, Danes, French, Scots, Dutch. All successfully took over England. Barely seems to be a NW European country that hasn't treated England like a dockside hooker.

    Worse, it took England 500 years to subjugate the Welsh and for most of that time their grip on the colony was pretty tenuous. Arguably did worse in Ireland but come on, we're talking about the Welsh.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    Sir David Hare 'At last Labour has a leader who will offer genuine opposition - Jeremy Corbyn's unpractised artlessness is the answer to David Cameron's slickness, trendiness and insincerity'
    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/at-last-labour-has-a-leader-who-will-offer-genuine-opposition-a2957226.html

    Corbyn will offer genuine opposition - to a reality-based universe....
    Capitalist Peeg!
  • Options

    I suppose George Eaton must be a Tory writing in the Tory press:

    When Ed Miliband delivered his conference speech last year, he was castigated for failing to mention the deficit. It was a charge that McDonnell quickly insulated himself from. Labour, he vowed, would "tackle the deficit" through "aggressive" action to "force people like Starbucks, Vodafone, Amazon and Google and all the others to pay their fair share of taxes." But there was no explanation of how. Combined with the promise of "people's quantitative easing" in times of anaemic growth, the impression that Labour relies on a magic money tree risks only being reinforced.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/09/john-mcdonnells-speech-big-vision-short-detail

    Forgetting the deficit suddenly seems very wise when compared to belittling it.
  • Options
    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Which of these two is more delusional.. Corbyn and his mob or "The Great Leader" who "saved the world" and his mob..
    Difficult call really...

    And neither of *them* thought a giant rock with vague promises carved on it would be a really spiffy idea.
    Ed was just crap, he wasn't delusional. Corbyn is barking, so was Gordon.
    He was deluded enough to think he might be a good prime minister...
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/11/milifan-prime-minister-ed-miliband
  • Options
    Mr. Dair, you think the Romans conquered England?
  • Options

    Mr. Dair, you think the Romans conquered England?

    Britannia Inferior and Britannia Superior
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,281
    Dair said:

    kle4 said:

    weejonnie said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    surbiton said:

    GeoffM said:

    Today is the anniversary of William the Conqueror's invasion in 1066. Just sayin'

    Illegal immigrant !
    I think you get off if you bring your own country...
    The most shameful moment in the history of England.

    We were conquered by a French Bastard.
    Not true Frenchies. I grant you they spoke french, lived in france and served the french king, but they were still more Norse than french, damnit!
    IIRC hadn't Harold had to march up North to thrash the Scots (Battle of Stamford Bridge) before immediately returning South.
    Vikings, not Scots. Otherwise correct.

    Harold pulled off a pretty impressive feat of generalship simply taking the field at Hastings after what he'd been through over the previous two months. I wouldn't regard 1066 as any more shameful than any of the other invasions that England suffered during the earlier part of the eleventh centuries. The only thing that marked it as being particularly different was that it was the last successful one - and that could only be seen in retrospect.
    Cue someone bringing up William of Orange in 'successful invasions'
    Romans, Germans, Danes, French, Scots, Dutch. All successfully took over England. Barely seems to be a NW European country that hasn't treated England like a dockside hooker.

    Worse, it took England 500 years to subjugate the Welsh and for most of that time their grip on the colony was pretty tenuous. Arguably did worse in Ireland but come on, we're talking about the Welsh.
    Some of my ancestors are Huguenot, if you excluded those descended from West Indian Immigrants, the Jews, the Huguenots, the Dutch, the Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons and the Romans you would not have many English left. That is not the same as being occupied
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,281

    HYUFD said:

    Sir David Hare 'At last Labour has a leader who will offer genuine opposition - Jeremy Corbyn's unpractised artlessness is the answer to David Cameron's slickness, trendiness and insincerity'
    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/at-last-labour-has-a-leader-who-will-offer-genuine-opposition-a2957226.html

    Corbyn will offer genuine opposition - to a reality-based universe....
    Well, at least he will get thunderous applause in luvvie land
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    Sir David Hare 'At last Labour has a leader who will offer genuine opposition - Jeremy Corbyn's unpractised artlessness is the answer to David Cameron's slickness, trendiness and insincerity'
    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/at-last-labour-has-a-leader-who-will-offer-genuine-opposition-a2957226.html

    Corbyn will offer genuine opposition - to a reality-based universe....
    Imagine how poor Neil Kinnock must be feeling. He thought he had got his party back in 2010, but now he faces welcoming the likes of Dave Nellist back along with a host a swarm of other Militant Marxists he had spent the best 10 years of his life fighting to get expelled.
    I very much doubt that the world's greatest experts in string theory could come up with the number of universes he thinks he is livng in right now.
  • Options
    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Scott_P said:

    @bbclaurak: One senior MP tellls me speech was only 30% of what Corbyn and McDonnell want to do

    I thought the whole problem with having a lifelong rebel and outsider as leader was that senior MPs are now out of the loop of what Corbyn and McDonnell are doing?
  • Options
    Dr. Prasannan, neither of which were England.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Quite
    The loudest applause from delegates came when McDonnell appealed to those MPs who refused to serve under Jeremy Corbyn to "come back and help us succeed". The appeal was offered "in the spirit of solidarity" but to many on the outside, as one MP told me, "it sounded like a threat".

    I suppose George Eaton must be a Tory writing in the Tory press:

    When Ed Miliband delivered his conference speech last year, he was castigated for failing to mention the deficit. It was a charge that McDonnell quickly insulated himself from. Labour, he vowed, would "tackle the deficit" through "aggressive" action to "force people like Starbucks, Vodafone, Amazon and Google and all the others to pay their fair share of taxes." But there was no explanation of how. Combined with the promise of "people's quantitative easing" in times of anaemic growth, the impression that Labour relies on a magic money tree risks only being reinforced.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/09/john-mcdonnells-speech-big-vision-short-detail

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,281
    edited September 2015

    HYUFD said:

    Sir David Hare 'At last Labour has a leader who will offer genuine opposition - Jeremy Corbyn's unpractised artlessness is the answer to David Cameron's slickness, trendiness and insincerity'
    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/at-last-labour-has-a-leader-who-will-offer-genuine-opposition-a2957226.html

    Corbyn will offer genuine opposition - to a reality-based universe....
    Imagine how poor Neil Kinnock must be feeling. He thought he had got his party back in 2010, but now he faces welcoming the likes of Dave Nellist back along with a host a swarm of other Militant Marxists he had spent the best 10 years of his life fighting to get expelled.
    I very much doubt that the world's greatest experts in string theory could come up with the number of universes he thinks he is livng in right now.
    If I were Cameron I would offer Kinnock a role in his new 'broad church' Tory government in his conference speech, it would bring the house down! After all, his son has been calling for a cut in the top rate of income tax
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/stephen-kinnock-i-d-cut-top-tax-rate-labour-can-t-have-sacred-cows-10413527.html
  • Options
    Mr. HYUFD, Cameron should announce that, following the Mars discovery, he's appointing Ashcroft ambassador to Mars.
  • Options

    Quite

    The loudest applause from delegates came when McDonnell appealed to those MPs who refused to serve under Jeremy Corbyn to "come back and help us succeed". The appeal was offered "in the spirit of solidarity" but to many on the outside, as one MP told me, "it sounded like a threat".

    I suppose George Eaton must be a Tory writing in the Tory press:

    When Ed Miliband delivered his conference speech last year, he was castigated for failing to mention the deficit. It was a charge that McDonnell quickly insulated himself from. Labour, he vowed, would "tackle the deficit" through "aggressive" action to "force people like Starbucks, Vodafone, Amazon and Google and all the others to pay their fair share of taxes." But there was no explanation of how. Combined with the promise of "people's quantitative easing" in times of anaemic growth, the impression that Labour relies on a magic money tree risks only being reinforced.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/09/john-mcdonnells-speech-big-vision-short-detail



    Some of the harshest words today were from Labour MPs.

    Quite telling that he's lost them already, even if it is only the proverbial awkward squad.
  • Options
    Mr. Rabbit, but if the Politburo can replace the treacherous pigdogs with approved persons, Corbyn will get the PLP as well as the Three Pounders.
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dr. Prasannan, neither of which were England.

    So your defence is that England wasn't conquered by the Romans because the concept of England wouldn't exist for a few hundred years when one of the many German conquerors brought it with them?
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Here's a story to watch:''

    VAZ has a huge majority...labour couldn't lose there.......

    could they?
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11897120/Labour-conference-2015-The-taming-of-John-McDonnell.html
    He looked neater than normal, too: glasses on, hair flattened and smartly parted. Mr Corbyn sat at the side of the stage, stroking his beard approvingly.

    The explanation was obvious enough. For all the talk of spurning spin, Mr Corbyn’s Labour know perfectly well that good PR is vital, and that on this front Mr McDonnell is a disaster. They desperately need to make the public forget the time he praised the IRA for their “bombs and bullets and sacrifice”, the time he said he longed to go back in time to kill Margaret Thatcher, and the time he ended an anecdote about the Tories’ Esther McVey with the line, “Why aren’t we lynching the bitch?”

    So here was their carefully madeover McDonnell 2.0: the splenetic liability replaced by a 1950s provincial bank manager.
  • Options

    Dr. Prasannan, neither of which were England.

    Mr Dancer - that was exactly the point!
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,097
    Evening all.

    Despite the usual protestations, this Labour conference seems to be going quite well.

    Much better than last year.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,281

    Mr. HYUFD, Cameron should announce that, following the Mars discovery, he's appointing Ashcroft ambassador to Mars.

    Yes, ambassador for life!
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    HYUFD said:

    Dair said:

    kle4 said:

    weejonnie said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    surbiton said:

    GeoffM said:

    Today is the anniversary of William the Conqueror's invasion in 1066. Just sayin'

    Illegal immigrant !
    I think you get off if you bring your own country...
    The most shameful moment in the history of England.

    We were conquered by a French Bastard.
    Not true Frenchies. I grant you they spoke french, lived in france and served the french king, but they were still more Norse than french, damnit!
    IIRC hadn't Harold had to march up North to thrash the Scots (Battle of Stamford Bridge) before immediately returning South.
    Vikings, not Scots. Otherwise correct.

    Harold pulled off a pretty impressive feat of generalship simply taking the field at Hastings after what he'd been through over the previous two months. I wouldn't regard 1066 as any more shameful than any of the other invasions that England suffered during the earlier part of the eleventh centuries. The only thing that marked it as being particularly different was that it was the last successful one - and that could only be seen in retrospect.
    Cue someone bringing up William of Orange in 'successful invasions'
    Romans, Germans, Danes, French, Scots, Dutch. All successfully took over England. Barely seems to be a NW European country that hasn't treated England like a dockside hooker.

    Worse, it took England 500 years to subjugate the Welsh and for most of that time their grip on the colony was pretty tenuous. Arguably did worse in Ireland but come on, we're talking about the Welsh.
    Some of my ancestors are Huguenot, if you excluded those descended from West Indian Immigrants, the Jews, the Huguenots, the Dutch, the Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons and the Romans you would not have many English left. That is not the same as being occupied
    He believes that various groups took over England centuries before the English even existed.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    For Martians - Germany is your destination
    Do YOU believe in aliens? Poll shows Germans are the strongest supporters, the UK is most skeptical and right-wingers think governments are hiding the truth

    The international poll by YouGov surveyed people in UK, US and Germany
    More than half (56%) of Germans said they did believe in aliens
    Men are most likely to support the theory, as are 18 to 24-year-olds
    While more right-wing voters believe aliens have already contacted us but governments are covering up the truth


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3248988/Do-believe-aliens-Poll-shows-Germans-strongest-supporters-UK-skeptical-right-wingers-think-governments-hiding-truth.html#ixzz3n3dbSyHW
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Dair said:

    Dr. Prasannan, neither of which were England.

    So your defence is that England wasn't conquered by the Romans because the concept of England wouldn't exist for a few hundred years when one of the many German conquerors brought it with them?
    Indeed. Its like making fun of the Americans for invasions suffered before Columbus ever got there. The English are the descendants of the successful invaders.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Dair said:

    kle4 said:

    weejonnie said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    surbiton said:

    GeoffM said:

    Today is the anniversary of William the Conqueror's invasion in 1066. Just sayin'

    Illegal immigrant !
    I think you get off if you bring your own country...
    The most shameful moment in the history of England.

    We were conquered by a French Bastard.
    Not true Frenchies. I grant you they spoke french, lived in france and served the french king, but they were still more Norse than french, damnit!
    IIRC hadn't Harold had to march up North to thrash the Scots (Battle of Stamford Bridge) before immediately returning South.
    Vikings, not Scots. Otherwise correct.

    Harold pulled off a pretty impressive feat of generalship simply taking the field at Hastings after what he'd been through over the previous two months. I wouldn't regard 1066 as any more shameful than any of the other invasions that England suffered during the earlier part of the eleventh centuries. The only thing that marked it as being particularly different was that it was the last successful one - and that could only be seen in retrospect.
    Cue someone bringing up William of Orange in 'successful invasions'
    Romans, Germans, Danes, French, Scots, Dutch. All successfully took over England. Barely seems to be a NW European country that hasn't treated England like a dockside hooker.

    Worse, it took England 500 years to subjugate the Welsh and for most of that time their grip on the colony was pretty tenuous. Arguably did worse in Ireland but come on, we're talking about the Welsh.
    Some of my ancestors are Huguenot, if you excluded those descended from West Indian Immigrants, the Jews, the Huguenots, the Dutch, the Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons and the Romans you would not have many English left. That is not the same as being occupied
    The Scots came from Ireland.

    Romans Vikings and Normans did not in fact leave much of their DNA behind. Most of our English DNA is still Anglo Saxon. Even at its strongest though it is only 40% - the rest mostly dates from earlier. So really the Anglo Saxons were assimilated and the whole group became English.
    Before that the very first settlers were from what is now Germany France and Belgium and mostly came via land bridge.
    Those of Celtic ancestry in Scotland and Cornwall are more similar to the English than they are to other Celtic groups. There are a wide range of different Celtic groups.
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Flightpath01,

    The Anglo-Saxons weren't assimilated. They were the assimilators who assimilated the Celts they had conquered.
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108


    The Scots came from Ireland.

    Scots came from Dalriada a sea kingdom which spanned Ireland and Scotland. Where they came from before Dalriada is unclear.

    The mythology says from Egypt but that's a fairly typical "Lost Tribe of Israel" mythology amongst early Christian societies.
  • Options
    JEO said:

    Dair said:

    Dr. Prasannan, neither of which were England.

    So your defence is that England wasn't conquered by the Romans because the concept of England wouldn't exist for a few hundred years when one of the many German conquerors brought it with them?
    Indeed. Its like making fun of the Americans for invasions suffered before Columbus ever got there. The English are the descendants of the successful invaders.
    Yes. England did not exist at the time of the roman invasion. In due course what we know as Northumbria extended into the modern strathclyde area. So what?
    As I have pointed out the Scots came from Ireland, and in turn they came from... does it matter?
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I missed this gem

    Meanwhile, 24 per cent of UKIP supporters claim that aliens have already contacted us but the government has covered it.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3248988/Do-believe-aliens-Poll-shows-Germans-strongest-supporters-UK-skeptical-right-wingers-think-governments-hiding-truth.html#ixzz3n3fgG4no

  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,097
    Dair said:


    The Scots came from Ireland.

    Scots came from Dalriada a sea kingdom which spanned Ireland and Scotland. Where they came from before Dalriada is unclear.

    Probably Euston.
  • Options
    I guess neanderthals were here before home sapiens turned up. We ought to hand the country back to them.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,281
    JEO said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dair said:

    kle4 said:

    weejonnie said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    surbiton said:

    GeoffM said:

    Today is the anniversary of William the Conqueror's invasion in 1066. Just sayin'

    Illegal immigrant !
    I think you get off if you bring your own country...
    The most shameful moment in the history of England.

    We were conquered by a French Bastard.
    Not true Frenchies. I grant you they spoke french, lived in france and served the french king, but they were still more Norse than french, damnit!
    IIRC hadn't Harold had to march up North to thrash the Scots (Battle of Stamford Bridge) before immediately returning South.
    Vikings, not Scots. Otherwise correct.

    Harold pulled off a pretty impressive feat of generalship simply taking the field at Hastings after what he'd been through over the previous two months. I wouldn't regard 1066 as any more shameful than any of the other invasions that England suffered during the earlier part of the eleventh centuries. The only thing that marked it as being particularly different was that it was the last successful one - and that could only be seen in retrospect.
    Cue someone bringing up William of Orange in 'successful invasions'
    Romans, Germans, Danes, French, Scots, Dutch. All successfully took over England. Barely seems to be a NW European country that hasn't treated England like a dockside hooker.

    Worse, it took England 500 years to subjugate the Welsh and for most of that time their grip on the colony was pretty tenuous. Arguably did worse in Ireland but come on, we're talking about the Welsh.
    Some of my ancestors are Huguenot, if you excluded those descended from West Indian Immigrants, the Jews, the Huguenots, the Dutch, the Normans, the Vikings, the Saxons and the Romans you would not have many English left. That is not the same as being occupied
    He believes that various groups took over England centuries before the English even existed.
    Indeed but England only really came into being around the time of Aethalstan in 927. Before then it was made up of Kingdoms such as Wessex, Mercia and Northumbria
  • Options

    Quite

    The loudest applause from delegates came when McDonnell appealed to those MPs who refused to serve under Jeremy Corbyn to "come back and help us succeed". The appeal was offered "in the spirit of solidarity" but to many on the outside, as one MP told me, "it sounded like a threat".

    I suppose George Eaton must be a Tory writing in the Tory press:

    When Ed Miliband delivered his conference speech last year, he was castigated for failing to mention the deficit. It was a charge that McDonnell quickly insulated himself from. Labour, he vowed, would "tackle the deficit" through "aggressive" action to "force people like Starbucks, Vodafone, Amazon and Google and all the others to pay their fair share of taxes." But there was no explanation of how. Combined with the promise of "people's quantitative easing" in times of anaemic growth, the impression that Labour relies on a magic money tree risks only being reinforced.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/09/john-mcdonnells-speech-big-vision-short-detail

    Some of the harshest words today were from Labour MPs.
    Quite telling that he's lost them already, even if it is only the proverbial awkward squad.
    It would take Corbyn marrying off Seb to Liz Kendall to unite Labour - and even then they would end up cutting the baby in half.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,392
    Dair said:

    Dr. Prasannan, neither of which were England.

    So your defence is that England wasn't conquered by the Romans because the concept of England wouldn't exist for a few hundred years when one of the many German conquerors brought it with them?
    It is worth pointing out that the Romans did conquer Scotland, under Gnaeus Julius Agricola. They just decided it wasn't worth the effort of keeping.

    I'm struggling to remember an occasion when the Scots conquered England. There was a spirited attempt in 1745 that ended at Derby, and a much less successful attempt in 1650 when a certain Oliver Cromwell stopped them. Were you referring to one of those, or is there another occasion I don't know about?

    The Normans were not French, and it is worth pointing out that far from the French conquering England, England several times conquered France, notably after the Battle of Crécy in 1346 and Azincourt in 1415. The Vikings also failed to conquer England entirely (Wessex remained free, a few short raids apart) although England was briefly part of the Danish Empire from 1016-1042. Since Scotland was also partly ruled by Danes for much of the previous two hundred years, not a great example from your point of view.
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited September 2015
    Sandy Rentool..Apparently that is what the conference in Brighton is about.. The Labour Party... the New Neanderthals
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,097

    Sandy Rentool..Apparently that is what the conference in Brighton is about.. The Labour Party... the New Neanderthals

    Dinosaurs next week.
  • Options
    Jeremy Corbyn the most popular UK national leader:

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-09-28/corbyn-bounce-or-blip/

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    In Wales.
  • Options
    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn the most popular UK national leader:

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-09-28/corbyn-bounce-or-blip/

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    In Wales.

    That's peculiar, given how Wales has been trending towards the Right.
  • Options
    WALES..The land that time forgot...and everybody else wants to....
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,097

    WALES..The land that time forgot...and everybody else wants to....

    I would like to forget Saturday night.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,392
    Jonathan said:

    WALES..The land that time forgot...and everybody else wants to....

    I would like to forget Saturday night.
    You can pity me then - I've got one English parent, one Welsh parent, and I was sitting between them...

    The only thing they agreed on all evening was that the England captain was absolutely insane not to at least try for that penalty.
  • Options

    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn the most popular UK national leader:

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-09-28/corbyn-bounce-or-blip/

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    In Wales.

    That's peculiar, given how Wales has been trending towards the Right.
    From the other results (notably the fact that his personal impact on voting intention seems to be neutral), it appears that it might be an expression of his supporters' enthusiasm. A Corbynite might rank JC at 10 and DC at 1 while a Conservative might rank JC at 1 and DC at 6 or 7. That would result in better scores for Jeremy Corbyn than David Cameron without necessarily him having more supporters. But without the detailed data, that's just speculation.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Today at the Labour Conference

    "We might as well all go to the gas chambers"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rwNJepXB0Q
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    JEO said:

    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    Good evening, everyone.

    The potential for water on Mars is very significant news.

    It is arguably the worst news that mankind has ever had.
    Why?

    Because it reduces the chance the Great Filter is behind us.
    Ice Warriors? The Great Filter?

    Polite question to you and Marquee Mark: What the hell are you talking about?

  • Options
    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    chestnut said:

    Today at the Labour Conference

    "We might as well all go to the gas chambers"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rwNJepXB0Q

    Second Nazi reference today, I think Cameron doesn't have enough facial hair to be one I'm afraid.
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108

    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn the most popular UK national leader:

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-09-28/corbyn-bounce-or-blip/

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    In Wales.

    That's peculiar, given how Wales has been trending towards the Right.
    Confusing a UKIP vote with a "vote for the right" in UK political terms is your mistake.
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Speaking confusing votes for "the right".

    McTernan on Daily Politics was today conflating the communistic DUP with a block including Tories and UKIP so he could claim 51% voted for "right" parties.

    Utterly comical.
  • Options
    Dair said:


    The Scots came from Ireland.

    Scots came from Dalriada a sea kingdom which spanned Ireland and Scotland. Where they came from before Dalriada is unclear.
    The mythology says from Egypt but that's a fairly typical "Lost Tribe of Israel" mythology amongst early Christian societies.
    Its a moot point about the origins of the 'Scots', it seems as fair to call them Gaelic Irish in origin as to say they were a joint culture. I think there were other Irish migrations, but who cares if the Scots ignored the Picts, massacred them or merged with them?

    One per cent of all modern Scottish men have Berber ancestry. DNA suggests that modern Scotland was subject to migrations from what is now Germany. The Scottish DNA seems surprisingly diverse. I read that David Lammy has some Orkney DNA in him.

    My own mother's maiden name suggests an Irish link. None of this matters of course we are all one mixed up nation.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,392
    Dair said:

    Speaking confusing votes for "the right".

    McTernan on Daily Politics was today conflating the communistic DUP with a block including Tories and UKIP so he could claim 51% voted for "right" parties.

    Utterly comical.

    That seems a very strong claim to make. I would have said that they were definitely on the political right - indeed, in terms of their racial ideology and ideas on social class and segregation arguably they are closer to even the BNP than UKIP. That's even before we consider their church links which alone would rule them out of being Communist.

    In fact, I would have said the best possible argument for not mentioning them in the same breath as the Conservatives, and one reason why Cameron seems far from anxious to embrace them, is the embarrassment they could cause the latter.
  • Options
    Dair said:

    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn the most popular UK national leader:

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-09-28/corbyn-bounce-or-blip/

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    In Wales.

    That's peculiar, given how Wales has been trending towards the Right.
    Confusing a UKIP vote with a "vote for the right" in UK political terms is your mistake.
    I do not think that was true in 2015, however working out the confused UKIP vote in 2020 will be difficult.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,667
    Cyclefree said:

    JEO said:

    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    Good evening, everyone.

    The potential for water on Mars is very significant news.

    It is arguably the worst news that mankind has ever had.
    Why?

    Because it reduces the chance the Great Filter is behind us.
    Ice Warriors? The Great Filter?

    Polite question to you and Marquee Mark: What the hell are you talking about?

    What? Are you peering into a parallel thread I can't see??
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,981
    I really do quite approve of the way that Corbyn and McDonnell are questioning the standard wisdom as to how economics works. Really great that they are floating the maddest of ideas, and they're not worried about making the sums add up. Of course my approval applies only if they are 12 years old. They're not, and they should be ashamed at the dangerous drivel they are pedalling. They both know full well that what they are suggesting is a complete lie.

    I have nothing but contempt for these men.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,080
    Scott_P said:

    His speech contained some of the most deranged, dangerous nonsense ever spouted from the floor of a Labour party conference. I was never a fan of Ed Balls, but he understood the art of economic combat better than anyone in the Commons and knew that Labour had to win an election. By contrast, McDonnell is a fantasy shadow chancellor fighting battles that exist chiefly in his head. He referred to something called the ‘corporate welfare system’, which – of course – doesn’t exist. He vowed to cut ‘use of taxpayers’ money subsidising poverty paying bosses’ which doesn’t exist either. He threatened to impose rent controls, a system that has crippled rental markets in the cities where it is tried.
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/john-mcdonnells-speech-gave-a-taste-of-the-madness-that-has-taken-over-the-labour-party/

    Masterful understatement.
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    chestnut said:

    Today at the Labour Conference

    "We might as well all go to the gas chambers"

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rwNJepXB0Q

    Outrage Bus.
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    ydoethur said:

    Dair said:

    Speaking confusing votes for "the right".

    McTernan on Daily Politics was today conflating the communistic DUP with a block including Tories and UKIP so he could claim 51% voted for "right" parties.

    Utterly comical.

    That seems a very strong claim to make. I would have said that they were definitely on the political right - indeed, in terms of their racial ideology and ideas on social class and segregation arguably they are closer to even the BNP than UKIP. That's even before we consider their church links which alone would rule them out of being Communist.
    Economically they are well to the left of Corbyn.

    Which is sort of my point. Claiming the DUP or UKIP are "right" because they are racist parties is misleading if their economics are of the left (which UKIP are moving towards and DUP have always been).

    It was the DUPs left wing economics that was a strong contributor to them replacing the UUP as the main unionist bigots in Ulster.
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn the most popular UK national leader:

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-09-28/corbyn-bounce-or-blip/

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    In Wales.

    That's peculiar, given how Wales has been trending towards the Right.
    Confusing a UKIP vote with a "vote for the right" in UK political terms is your mistake.
    I do not think that was true in 2015, however working out the confused UKIP vote in 2020 will be difficult.
    The problem is that those claiming a "right wing block" "won" the 2015 election is always made by those claiming a mandate for the Tories economic policies not their social policies. Which makes the claim that 51% of people voted for right wing parties a complete nonsense.

    As a double irony, the Tories aren't even on the right on social policies any more, their at best centrist if not all out traditional left.
  • Options
    JEO said:

    Flightpath01,

    The Anglo-Saxons weren't assimilated. They were the assimilators who assimilated the Celts they had conquered.

    Well the DNA evidence is not really clear on that. The Romano-British and the Anglo Saxons merged into what we think of as the the English (they did carve out the present kingdom), with the earlier inhabitants adopting the Anglo Saxon way of life and deserting the Romano British one.
    With just 40% Anglo Saxon DNA that is not really them assimilating the Romano British in the sense of a mass invasion.
    There is nothing uniform about the Celtic DNA, it seems that the changes in DNA betweem Cornwall Devon and Dorset closely follow the county borders
  • Options
    Dair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dair said:

    Speaking confusing votes for "the right".

    McTernan on Daily Politics was today conflating the communistic DUP with a block including Tories and UKIP so he could claim 51% voted for "right" parties.

    Utterly comical.

    That seems a very strong claim to make. I would have said that they were definitely on the political right - indeed, in terms of their racial ideology and ideas on social class and segregation arguably they are closer to even the BNP than UKIP. That's even before we consider their church links which alone would rule them out of being Communist.
    Economically they are well to the left of Corbyn.

    Which is sort of my point. Claiming the DUP or UKIP are "right" because they are racist parties is misleading if their economics are of the left (which UKIP are moving towards and DUP have always been).

    It was the DUPs left wing economics that was a strong contributor to them replacing the UUP as the main unionist bigots in Ulster.
    You may be right. The inference is that the UUP and UKIP are moving towards their version of National Socialism.
  • Options
    Flightpath.. Will they get to wear those snazzy uniforms..
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    Superb stuff http://on.ft.com/1MBsSGz
    When a Corbynite says there is more to politics than winning elections, they tacitly concede that Britain is tolerable as it is, at least for them. If it were not, the acquisition of power would be the alpha and omega of their cause. Press them on their lacerating dislike for Tony Blair and they say his leadership of the Labour party made them feel scuzzy. Politics, this implies, is there to make activists feel good about themselves. Everything comes back to feeling; everything comes back to the self.

    A Corbyn rally is not a band of desperate workers fighting to improve their circumstances, it is a communion of comfortable people working their way up Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. They have physical health and security; they crave belonging and self-actualisation. They are in politics for the dopamine squirt that comes with total belief and immersion in like-minded company.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    http://www.cityam.com/225235/west-s-failed-syria-policy-why-it-s-time-do-nothing

    When queries were made as to how many “moderate” Syrian rebels were now in the field as a result of the new $500m US training programme, the general gulped, shifted uncomfortably in his seat, and devastatingly answered “four or five.”

    That is the pathetic state of the White House’s strategy on Syria.
    ==========

    The failour of the Obama middle east strategy writ large.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    ydoethur said:

    Dair said:

    Dr. Prasannan, neither of which were England.

    So your defence is that England wasn't conquered by the Romans because the concept of England wouldn't exist for a few hundred years when one of the many German conquerors brought it with them?
    It is worth pointing out that the Romans did conquer Scotland, under Gnaeus Julius Agricola. They just decided it wasn't worth the effort of keeping.

    I'm struggling to remember an occasion when the Scots conquered England. There was a spirited attempt in 1745 that ended at Derby, and a much less successful attempt in 1650 when a certain Oliver Cromwell stopped them. Were you referring to one of those, or is there another occasion I don't know about?

    The Normans were not French, and it is worth pointing out that far from the French conquering England, England several times conquered France, notably after the Battle of Crécy in 1346 and Azincourt in 1415. The Vikings also failed to conquer England entirely (Wessex remained free, a few short raids apart) although England was briefly part of the Danish Empire from 1016-1042. Since Scotland was also partly ruled by Danes for much of the previous two hundred years, not a great example from your point of view.
    Plus of course the English conquered Scotland in 1745 and have ruled it ever since (or so we are told by the SNP). Actually a large part of the Hanoverian army were Lowland Scots, wise enough to know the Jacobites were a dead loss and the future was bright. The future was orange...
Sign In or Register to comment.