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  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    Sean_F said:

    MP_SE said:

    Mark Reckless. Point and laugh. He'd be sat on a five figure majority and a seat for life if he hadn't been such a plonker.
    Carswell must be thinking "what the hell have I done?" He needs to seriously consider pulling the plug on UKIP - and the funding that goes with his being their MP - if he doesn't want Farage to be the face of LEAVE. Seeing Farage's smirking face claiming all the credit for a LEAVE vote would be a sure way to have me sit on my hands on Referendum Day. I suspect I am not alone.

    Having got the EC referendum agreed, their defections to UKIP were a puzzle then and now. I absolutely accept that Cameron is mounting a trivial half hearted attempt at re-negotiation, just look at his europhile europe minister. That said what was the attraction of UKIP a party run by a dictator who changes his mind depending upon what bed he gets out of? Reckless (by name and action) is apparently chasing a welsh assembly seat.... Meanwhile Farage has fallen out with his deputy leader and his Express journo convert.
    Quite worrying if what Guido says is true:

    twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/647744417877610496

    It just make Out more likely as the result.

    I'm not bothered either. The renegotiations (such as they are) are obviously going nowhere, but events are helping Leave.

    But events, indeed indignity piled on humiliation, have never been enough, not enough so far even to give 'out' a solid polling lead. Like many situations in our public life, the boiling frog scenario applies. Throw a frog in boiling water and it will jump out. Gradually heat cold water and the frog will boil to death. Had people known what the EU was and how it would turn out when we joined, they would never have voted for it in a million years. Nowadays there is every possibility that people will be cowed into voting to stay.
    Then it is up to you to get out there and persuade people by knocking on doors. You've got your chance to leave, make the most of it. The Scottish nationalists had been campaigning for years by the time of their referendum. Eurosceptics don't seem willing to do the same.

    Of course, you'll have to put forward a case that is appealing to those with more middling political opinions to you.
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    surbiton said:

    MikeK said:

    I can only say that it does not surprise me that UKIP has lost 10% of it's membership since the election.

    After all the build up prior to the election by some kippers, including me, the outcome of the GE was a huge disappointment, and the ructions about Farage's resignation didn't help. That UKIP has not advanced since the elections is evident by the poor attendance at the recently completed conference..

    One of my reasons for joining UKIP was that I wanted to see a vibrant right wing party exist in the UK, (and I don't mean a so called far right party) and the rise of UKIP in 2013/14 was such a chance.

    I will not resign my membership, but will let it lapse come March if there is no improvement. Also perhaps, at the age of 81, I need to let younger people take up the fight.

    Many on PB will laugh and chuckle at what I have written; so be it. All I can say to that is get stuffed!

    Ironically, any system close to PR [ not necessarily PR ] would have given UKIP or your party of the Right reasonable representation. AV or d'hondt would have given UKIP many more seats.

    Was there a motion in favour of PR at the Lib Dem conference ?
    There was a presentation on how STV works at the Kipper conference. What I struggle with is how the Surplus Votes bit works. How is it decided which pile of votes is classed as the surplus?
    The surplus is the straightforward bit of STV. If say, a seat has 5 members, then one sixth of the vote is needed for a candidate to be elected. If say, one candidate won 25%, then that part of his vote which exceeds 16.67% is redistributed to his second choices.

    I've never understood, though, how fractions of votes get redistributed.
    Yes, but specially which votes? Let's say a LibDem gets elected, if their surplus votes come from a pile from a Lib-Con marginal ward they would break differently to those from a Lib-Lab ward. Or is it based on a statistical analysis rather than real piles of votes?
    Real votes.

    Suppose in my example, the quota is 10,000 votes. The top candidate has 5,000 to redistribute. Suppose he's Labour, and Labour have fielded two more candidates, and Con, Lib Dem, and UKIP have fielded three each. Suppose his second preferences are 60% Labour, 20%, Lib Dem, and 10% each Con and UKIP.

    That means 3,000 votes will be redistributed to the other Labour candidates, 1,000 to the Lib Dems, 500 each to Con and UKIP.
    So they have to go through all of the votes to see where the second preferences would go and then allocate proportionately. And then when we get on to third preferences, more number crunching. I prefer dHondt.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,558

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    surbiton said:

    MikeK said:

    I can only say that it does not surprise me that UKIP has lost 10% of it's membership since the election.

    After all the build up prior to the election by some kippers, including me, the outcome of the GE was a huge disappointment, and the ructions about Farage's resignation didn't help. That UKIP has not advanced since the elections is evident by the poor attendance at the recently completed conference..

    One of my reasons for joining UKIP was that I wanted to see a vibrant right wing party exist in the UK, (and I don't mean a so called far right party) and the rise of UKIP in 2013/14 was such a chance.

    I will not resign my membership, but will let it lapse come March if there is no improvement. Also perhaps, at the age of 81, I need to let younger people take up the fight.

    Many on PB will laugh and chuckle at what I have written; so be it. All I can say to that is get stuffed!



    Was there a motion in favour of PR at the Lib Dem conference ?
    There was a presentation on how STV works at the Kipper conference. What I struggle with is how the Surplus Votes bit works. How is it decided which pile of votes is classed as the surplus?
    The surplus is the straightforward bit of STV. If say, a seat has 5 members, then one sixth of the vote is needed for a candidate to be elected. If say, one candidate won 25%, then that part of his vote which exceeds 16.67% is redistributed to his second choices.

    I've never understood, though, how fractions of votes get redistributed.
    Yes, but specially which votes? Let's say a LibDem gets elected, if their surplus votes come from a pile from a Lib-Con marginal ward they would break differently to those from a Lib-Lab ward. Or is it based on a statistical analysis rather than real piles of votes?
    Real votes.

    Suppose in my example, the quota is 10,000 votes. The top candidate has 5,000 to redistribute. Suppose he's Labour, and Labour have fielded two more candidates, and Con, Lib Dem, and UKIP have fielded three each. Suppose his second preferences are 60% Labour, 20%, Lib Dem, and 10% each Con and UKIP.

    That means 3,000 votes will be redistributed to the other Labour candidates, 1,000 to the Lib Dems, 500 each to Con and UKIP.
    So they have to go through all of the votes to see where the second preferences would go and then allocate proportionately. And then when we get on to third preferences, more number crunching. I prefer dHondt.
    That's why counting can continue for two or three days in Northern Ireland.
  • Plus had Suzanne Evans had become UKIP London Mayoral candidate, it would have given Mike an excuse to run this picture of her in future thread headers, as he loves this picture.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CPvuQeTWsAATJLy.jpg

    Priceless.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059

    HYUFD said:

    New NBC poll

    GOP

    Trump: 21
    Carson: 20
    Rubio: 11
    Carly: 11
    Bush: 7
    Kasich: 6
    Cruz: 5
    Christie: 3
    Paul: 3
    Huckabee: 2
    Santorum: 1
    Jindal: 1
    Graham: 0
    Pataki: 0

    Democrats

    Clinton 42
    Sanders 35
    Biden 17
    http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/nbc-wsj-poll-2016-gop-race-n433991

    Looking good for Fiorina.
    She is certainly up
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,558
    One big reason why UKIP aren't gaining from recent events is that the government is pursuing much the same line as UKIP. if Cameron had accepted EU quotas for asylum seekers, things would be very different.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    surbiton said:

    Ironically, any system close to PR [ not necessarily PR ] would have given UKIP or your party of the Right reasonable representation. AV or d'hondt would have given UKIP many more seats.

    Was there a motion in favour of PR at the Lib Dem conference ?

    No need for one, Mr Surbiton. Pevious policy continues unchanged. Lib Dems are in favour of the Single Transferable Vote system in Multi-Member Constituencies. You may like to note that there is no mention of AV.
  • MikeK said:

    Raheem Kassam @RaheemKassam
    .@GuidoFawkes, "I was out with the PM's aides last week and they laughed about EU renegotiations. They're not even pretending it's real."
    1:07 PM - 26 Sep 2015

    Which is not surprising in the least. The whole Cammo referendum has always been a farce.

    Yes it is. Something Daniel Hannon has continually pointed out. but if Cameron thinks that this will improve his cances of remaining he is mistaken. Look at the Business for Britain publications to see how they are setting things up for a coherent alternative by first listing what he used to say and what should be asked for as a minimum.
    http://businessforbritain.org/change-or-go/

    Streets ahead of Aaron Banks leave.eu
    Raheem Kassam. Would that be the chippy, pistol posing, 'wildly self important', former aid of Farage who was forced to resign? The story was he then unresigned. Wow, he really knows some really influential but conveniently gullible Cameron aids.
    Where is O'Flynn now BTW?
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Sean_F said:

    There was a presentation on how STV works at the Kipper conference. What I struggle with is how the Surplus Votes bit works. How is it decided which pile of votes is classed as the surplus?

    The surplus is the straightforward bit of STV. If say, a seat has 5 members, then one sixth of the vote is needed for a candidate to be elected. If say, one candidate won 25%, then that part of his vote which exceeds 16.67% is redistributed to his second choices.

    I've never understood, though, how fractions of votes get redistributed.
    Easy. They get redistibuted as fractions. A bit more difficult for the returning officer, perhaps, but easy enough for the voters, who just write down 1-2-3-4 etc.

    In passing, very glad to learn that Kippers are starting to take an interest in this.
  • Mark Reckless. Point and laugh. He'd be sat on a five figure majority and a seat for life if he hadn't been such a plonker.

    Carswell must be thinking "what the hell have I done?" He needs to seriously consider pulling the plug on UKIP - and the funding that goes with his being their MP - if he doesn't want Farage to be the face of LEAVE. Seeing Farage's smirking face claiming all the credit for a LEAVE vote would be a sure way to have me sit on my hands on Referendum Day. I suspect I am not alone.

    If you would put personal dislike of one man ahead of your personal view on the most important constitutional question of your lifetime then you are, not to put too fine a point on it, a fool.
    It's not just one man, but everything that he stands for.
    Well if you oppose leaving the EU anyway then of course you are not going to vote 'Leave'.
  • So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    O_o

    Hilary Benn purged

    Christopher Hope and Dan Hodges write

    Have the purges started? Hilary Benn, the most senior moderate in the Labour party, has been removed from the Labour party’s ruling national executive by Jeremy Corbyn.

    Sources close to Mr Benn confirm that the shadow foreign secretary was asked to stand down by Mr Corbyn, and not given a choice about staying.

    It shows how Mr Corbyn is shoring up his position on the NEC, which sets the rules and runs the Labour party.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,997
    Sean_F said:

    One big reason why UKIP aren't gaining from recent events is that the government is pursuing much the same line as UKIP. if Cameron had accepted EU quotas for asylum seekers, things would be very different.

    SeanF, feel free to ignore the question, but I was wondering if you are yet at the point of regretting having nailed your colours to the UKIP mast? Any chance of you returning to the Blues?
  • If Benn has any self respect he will surely resign his ministerial post..
  • Reports of long queues at polling stations in Catalonia and a much higher than usual turnout. In theory that should help the anti-independence parties. We shall see. Three hours until voting ends.
  • O_o

    Hilary Benn purged

    Christopher Hope and Dan Hodges write

    Have the purges started? Hilary Benn, the most senior moderate in the Labour party, has been removed from the Labour party’s ruling national executive by Jeremy Corbyn.

    Sources close to Mr Benn confirm that the shadow foreign secretary was asked to stand down by Mr Corbyn, and not given a choice about staying.

    It shows how Mr Corbyn is shoring up his position on the NEC, which sets the rules and runs the Labour party.

    You are avinmeon...
    Sweet nice inclusive Mr Corbyn? Thank goodness Benn was not a son of the manse as opposed to son of an unreconstructed leftie
    ...otherwise he would be in the stocks.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Hillary always struck me as rather too nice - maybe he was an easy target

    If Benn has any self respect he will surely resign his ministerial post..

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059

    If Benn has any self respect he will surely resign his ministerial post..

    No, as he will be the prime candidate to take over if there is any coup before 2020
  • Plato .. an easy target and a fool if he stays.. he will never get the respect back..no point in being a second class Burnham
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,997
    HYUFD said:

    If Benn has any self respect he will surely resign his ministerial post..

    No, as he will be the prime candidate to take over if there is any coup before 2020
    Corbyn learning from Brown - destroy anybody that the disgruntled might rally around....
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Exactly my thoughts - an icon name to sideline.

    HYUFD said:

    If Benn has any self respect he will surely resign his ministerial post..

    No, as he will be the prime candidate to take over if there is any coup before 2020
    Corbyn learning from Brown - destroy anybody that the disgruntled might rally around....
  • Turnout in Catalonia seems to be increasing most in areas where at the last elections the anti-independence parties did best

    By 1.00 pm over 35% of those on the electoral roll had cast a vote. It's looking like a turnout of well over 70%. Certainly the biggest ever.
  • So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
  • Benn will not be seen as a potential leader in a coup he will always be seen, like Burnham, as Corbyn,s weak bitch..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059

    Benn will not be seen as a potential leader in a coup he will always be seen, like Burnham, as Corbyn,s weak bitch..

    Due to Corbyn's mandate from members the only viable alternative has to be a Senior Shadow Cabinet Minister in Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet who is seen as of the left. Due to his position as Shadow Foreign Secretary and his surname Benn clearly meets those requirements.

    Similarly in 2003 due to IDS' mandate from Tory members the only viable alternative was his Shadow Chancellor, Michael Howard, who was also from the right. Howard was elected unopposed
  • Will Hillary suffer a good old fashioned salt water purge, or the dreaded 'black draught'?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited September 2015

    So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTBeXPNBhi8

    http://www.cnduk.org/cnd-media/item/2140-former-conservative-defence-secretary-slams-trident-replacement

    "A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point." - Portillo

    The compromise will be 2 Tridents. Britain has the capability of delivering nuclear even today.

    In 2012:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20179604
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    surbiton said:

    So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
    http://www.cnduk.org/cnd-media/item/2140-former-conservative-defence-secretary-slams-trident-replacement

    "A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point." - Portillo

    The compromise will be 2 Tridents. Britain has the capability of delivering nuclear even today.

    In 2012:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20179604
    Why is everyone so hung up on having nuclear missiles? I can see why so many young people side w Corbyn when he says he desires a world free of them.

    I dissent from the UKIP line on this!
  • surbiton said:

    So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTBeXPNBhi8

    http://www.cnduk.org/cnd-media/item/2140-former-conservative-defence-secretary-slams-trident-replacement

    "A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point." - Portillo

    The compromise will be 2 Tridents. Britain has the capability of delivering nuclear even today.

    In 2012:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20179604
    The question remains which 5 million people do we want to kill by firing the missiles at their city?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    O_o

    Hilary Benn purged

    Christopher Hope and Dan Hodges write

    Have the purges started? Hilary Benn, the most senior moderate in the Labour party, has been removed from the Labour party’s ruling national executive by Jeremy Corbyn.

    Sources close to Mr Benn confirm that the shadow foreign secretary was asked to stand down by Mr Corbyn, and not given a choice about staying.

    It shows how Mr Corbyn is shoring up his position on the NEC, which sets the rules and runs the Labour party.

    The NEC is elected by the members.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Micheal Deacon is having fun
    Today, as Labour's conference began in Brighton, Mr Corbyn went on The Andrew Marr Show to face questions about his friend. Earlier, the Telegraph had revealed that in 2012 Mr McDonnell called for "insurrection" against the government (or, in his words, the "elected dictatorship") because "the real fight" is "in the streets". The Left, said Mr McDonnell, should use "whatever means" necessary to "bring this government down".

    It seems fairly clear that he wasn't talking about signing a petition or writing to the local newspaper. He was talking about violence.

    Over to Mr Corbyn.

    "Is John in favour of insurrection? No, he's not," he assured Andrew Marr, soothingly. "It was a colourful use of words."

    A colourful use of words. What an ingenious defence. You could use that in all sorts of tricky situations. Honour the IRA? Just a colourful use of words. Assassinate the prime minister? Just a colourful use of words. Lynch the bitch? Just a colourful use of words.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11894559/Labour-conference-2015-Jeremy-Corbyn-starts-spinning.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    edited September 2015

    surbiton said:

    So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTBeXPNBhi8

    http://www.cnduk.org/cnd-media/item/2140-former-conservative-defence-secretary-slams-trident-replacement

    "A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point." - Portillo

    The compromise will be 2 Tridents. Britain has the capability of delivering nuclear even today.

    In 2012:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20179604
    The question remains which 5 million people do we want to kill by firing the missiles at their city?
    Pyongyang. As long as Iran (in all probablility soon), N Korea, Russia etc have nuclear weapons so will we
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    JEO said:

    DavidL said:

    To develop my theme the mere existence of UKIP helps the Tories look more moderate, more centrist, more rational and less unpleasant. It has done more to detoxify the Tories than any single step that Cameron or Osborne have been able to take.

    As Corbyn is about to find big tents with lots of lunatics and people whose views appall the majority of Britons is no recipe for electoral success.

    Lots of views of UKIP are actually agreed with by large shares of the general public. I can't think of any policies they have which are lunatic. I would much rather the Right was not being split.
    You have to bear in mind that as far as DavidL is concerned it appears that any view which is not in agreement with Cameroon othodoxy is ipso facto 'lunatic'.
    Not so. I overstated my position and I apologise. I blame the rugby.
    Scotland really struggling here. 13-6 down is unbelievable.
    FT Scotland 39 USA 16 so Scotland recovered in the second half. Nonetheless, encouraging to see Rugby growing in the likes of Japan and the US
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    DavidL said:

    To develop my theme the mere existence of UKIP helps the Tories look more moderate, more centrist, more rational and less unpleasant. It has done more to detoxify the Tories than any single step that Cameron or Osborne have been able to take.

    As Corbyn is about to find big tents with lots of lunatics and people whose views appall the majority of Britons is no recipe for electoral success.

    Lots of views of UKIP are actually agreed with by large shares of the general public. I can't think of any policies they have which are lunatic. I would much rather the Right was not being split.
    If Angela Merkel succeeds in procuring a Leave vote, I expect much of UKIP support would drift back to the Conservatives as a matter of course.
    It's an interesting question. Personally what drove me away from the Tories was the help to buy scheme. Osborne's started to repair some of the damage with reducing the tax relief on buy to let, but they would still need to do much more to get me back.
    The rationale behind "help to buy" is quite sound, *provided* that it is temporary.

    The key fix is improving the supply of housing. But that will take 5 years... HtB is meant to address the risk of there being a "lost generation" of non-owners
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    isam said:

    surbiton said:

    So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
    http://www.cnduk.org/cnd-media/item/2140-former-conservative-defence-secretary-slams-trident-replacement

    "A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point." - Portillo

    The compromise will be 2 Tridents. Britain has the capability of delivering nuclear even today.

    In 2012:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20179604
    Why is everyone so hung up on having nuclear missiles? I can see why so many young people side w Corbyn when he says he desires a world free of them.

    I dissent from the UKIP line on this!
    Personally, I am neither anti-nuclear nor anti-missiles as such. However, I do question the Miliray-Industrial complex justifications for the renewal of Trident.

    Surprisingly, Big business and the dreaded UNITE ..... are on the same side on this. It has nothing to do with Britain's defences , I can assure you.

    The bigger the toy, the better for them. And, more of them.


  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,531

    SNP business spokeswoman in a spot of ethical bother (Sunday Times). Property scandals.

    LOL, London rag says SNP BAD
  • HYUFD..You may soon have to add ISIS to that list..
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Latest from the Labour debacle of a conference.....

    Latest: Trident will NOT be debated at conference
    The renewal (or non-renewal) of Trident will NOT be discussed at this week's Labour conference after all. It had been expected to be one of the eight topics to be picked from 12 possible areas for debate, but it did not make the cut.

    My colleague Christopher Hope says the party's policy committee did not choose it for discussion.
    BREAKING There will be NO vote on the Trident nuclear deterrent after all at the Labour party conference, sources tell me. M/F
    — Christopher Hope (@christopherhope) September 27, 2015
  • HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTBeXPNBhi8

    http://www.cnduk.org/cnd-media/item/2140-former-conservative-defence-secretary-slams-trident-replacement

    "A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point." - Portillo

    The compromise will be 2 Tridents. Britain has the capability of delivering nuclear even today.

    In 2012:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20179604
    The question remains which 5 million people do we want to kill by firing the missiles at their city?
    Pyongyang. As long as Iran, N Korea, Russia etc have nuclear weapons so will we
    You want to kill the entire population of Pyongyang? I suppose it is one way to free them from tyranny.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,531

    If Benn has any self respect he will surely resign his ministerial post..

    LOL, snout , trough , no way
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTBeXPNBhi8

    http://www.cnduk.org/cnd-media/item/2140-former-conservative-defence-secretary-slams-trident-replacement

    "A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point." - Portillo

    The compromise will be 2 Tridents. Britain has the capability of delivering nuclear even today.

    In 2012:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20179604
    The question remains which 5 million people do we want to kill by firing the missiles at their city?
    Pyongyang. As long as Iran (in all probablility soon), N Korea, Russia etc have nuclear weapons so will we
    The reason why Britain and France have independent nuclear weapons is because of.....Gerry.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059

    HYUFD..You may soon have to add ISIS to that list..

    Even more reason to keep them, though while ISIS may get 'dirty bombs' I would be sceptical they will ever acquire full nuclear missiles
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Moses_ said:

    Latest from the Labour debacle of a conference.....

    Latest: Trident will NOT be debated at conference
    The renewal (or non-renewal) of Trident will NOT be discussed at this week's Labour conference after all. It had been expected to be one of the eight topics to be picked from 12 possible areas for debate, but it did not make the cut.

    My colleague Christopher Hope says the party's policy committee did not choose it for discussion.
    BREAKING There will be NO vote on the Trident nuclear deterrent after all at the Labour party conference, sources tell me. M/F
    — Christopher Hope (@christopherhope) September 27, 2015

    Why is it a debacle ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTBeXPNBhi8

    http://www.cnduk.org/cnd-media/item/2140-former-conservative-defence-secretary-slams-trident-replacement

    "A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point." - Portillo

    The compromise will be 2 Tridents. Britain has the capability of delivering nuclear even today.

    In 2012:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20179604
    The question remains which 5 million people do we want to kill by firing the missiles at their city?
    Pyongyang. As long as Iran, N Korea, Russia etc have nuclear weapons so will we
    You want to kill the entire population of Pyongyang? I suppose it is one way to free them from tyranny.
    Well only if, for example, they launch a nuclear attack on Seoul
  • Sandy Rentool The Trident system is a second strike system ..so I guess we would already have taken our five million casualties... but hey, why bother....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited September 2015
    Moses_ said:

    Latest from the Labour debacle of a conference.....

    Latest: Trident will NOT be debated at conference
    The renewal (or non-renewal) of Trident will NOT be discussed at this week's Labour conference after all. It had been expected to be one of the eight topics to be picked from 12 possible areas for debate, but it did not make the cut.

    My colleague Christopher Hope says the party's policy committee did not choose it for discussion.
    BREAKING There will be NO vote on the Trident nuclear deterrent after all at the Labour party conference, sources tell me. M/F
    — Christopher Hope (@christopherhope) September 27, 2015

    So we don't need to open the box just yet to see how the cat is doing.

    It will, sadly, need to be opened at some point.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    PClipp said:

    surbiton said:

    Ironically, any system close to PR [ not necessarily PR ] would have given UKIP or your party of the Right reasonable representation. AV or d'hondt would have given UKIP many more seats.

    Was there a motion in favour of PR at the Lib Dem conference ?

    No need for one, Mr Surbiton. Pevious policy continues unchanged. Lib Dems are in favour of the Single Transferable Vote system in Multi-Member Constituencies. You may like to note that there is no mention of AV.
    Not hugely different from d'hondt.
  • MG I am informed on PB that Shadow ministers only receive their MPs salary..
  • HYUFD said:

    If Benn has any self respect he will surely resign his ministerial post..

    No, as he will be the prime candidate to take over if there is any coup before 2020
    Corbyn learning from Brown - destroy anybody that the disgruntled might rally around....
    Whom did Gordon Brown destroy, that the disgruntled might have rallied around?

    In the run-up to the 2010 general election, David Miliband, Alistair Darling and Jack Straw held senior Cabinet posts, as did Lord Mandelson, Alan Johnson and Harriet Harman. It is Tory myth that Brown purged the Cabinet or the party.
  • The Unite leaders have said they want to keep Trident..why on earth would the Conference waste time discussing it ..tis a done deal..it stays.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Mark Reckless. Point and laugh. He'd be sat on a five figure majority and a seat for life if he hadn't been such a plonker.

    Carswell must be thinking "what the hell have I done?" He needs to seriously consider pulling the plug on UKIP - and the funding that goes with his being their MP - if he doesn't want Farage to be the face of LEAVE. Seeing Farage's smirking face claiming all the credit for a LEAVE vote would be a sure way to have me sit on my hands on Referendum Day. I suspect I am not alone.

    Reckless -- well, yes, but how attractive is a backbench MP's life? £67,000 a year is a fair old wage for most people but these days, a senior manager or professional on the outside would be looking at six figures. And by now many MPs must realise they have fallen off the greasy pole: it is not just their ambition has been thwarted but that no-one is even listening to their plans to bring peace to the Middle East or sort out badgers and bees.

    Carswell was the damn fool who turned down the Short money: did it never occur to him this would leave Ukip dependent on large donors, and on Farage to get them in the papers?
    I am sure Carswell can reapply for Short money.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059

    The Unite leaders have said they want to keep Trident..why on earth would the Conference waste time discussing it ..tis a done deal..it stays.

    That depends, in the early eighties the unions were often right of the conference delegates, this conference could be similar, remember most of the members attending will want to scrap it
  • surbiton said:

    PClipp said:

    surbiton said:

    Ironically, any system close to PR [ not necessarily PR ] would have given UKIP or your party of the Right reasonable representation. AV or d'hondt would have given UKIP many more seats.

    Was there a motion in favour of PR at the Lib Dem conference ?

    No need for one, Mr Surbiton. Pevious policy continues unchanged. Lib Dems are in favour of the Single Transferable Vote system in Multi-Member Constituencies. You may like to note that there is no mention of AV.
    Not hugely different from d'hondt.
    Single Transferable Vote system in Multi-Member Constituencies implies that the elector has one vote and it gets transferred as much as is possible. Is D'Hondt the same or could it be applied to lists (if it was that would make it less preferable)?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Palace fans singing "You dirty northern bastards" to Watford!
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    isam said:

    Palace fans singing "You dirty northern bastards" to Watford!

    Word has spread that ave it is amongst them.
  • HYFUD..They cant discuss or debate it..Trident is off the table..Big Len says so..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTBeXPNBhi8

    http://www.cnduk.org/cnd-media/item/2140-former-conservative-defence-secretary-slams-trident-replacement

    "A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point." - Portillo

    The compromise will be 2 Tridents. Britain has the capability of delivering nuclear even today.

    In 2012:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20179604
    The question remains which 5 million people do we want to kill by firing the missiles at their city?
    Pyongyang. As long as Iran (in all probablility soon), N Korea, Russia etc have nuclear weapons so will we
    The reason why Britain and France have independent nuclear weapons is because of.....Gerry.
    Gerry?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    LOL, London rag says SNP BAD

    Not exactly...

    The solicitor, Christopher Hales, who acted for Thomson, was struck off last year for professional misconduct over his role in the deals.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @iainjwatson: So Jeremy Corbyn avoids his first conference defeat as Trident won't be discussed #lab15
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059

    HYFUD..They cant discuss or debate it..Trident is off the table..Big Len says so..

    Depends if enough of the delegates put it on, UNITE can direct its delegates but the block vote is no more
  • surbiton said:

    Mark Reckless. Point and laugh. He'd be sat on a five figure majority and a seat for life if he hadn't been such a plonker.

    Carswell must be thinking "what the hell have I done?" He needs to seriously consider pulling the plug on UKIP - and the funding that goes with his being their MP - if he doesn't want Farage to be the face of LEAVE. Seeing Farage's smirking face claiming all the credit for a LEAVE vote would be a sure way to have me sit on my hands on Referendum Day. I suspect I am not alone.

    Reckless -- well, yes, but how attractive is a backbench MP's life? £67,000 a year is a fair old wage for most people but these days, a senior manager or professional on the outside would be looking at six figures. And by now many MPs must realise they have fallen off the greasy pole: it is not just their ambition has been thwarted but that no-one is even listening to their plans to bring peace to the Middle East or sort out badgers and bees.

    Carswell was the damn fool who turned down the Short money: did it never occur to him this would leave Ukip dependent on large donors, and on Farage to get them in the papers?
    I am sure Carswell can reapply for Short money.
    Carswell is a man of principle. He was on the right side in the MP's expenses scandal and he's right on Short money. I disagree with most of his policies, but you can't fault him when it comes to integrity around money. farage on the other hand.....
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/12/nigel-farage-europe-expenses-ukip
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    What on earth is Old Gower Tristram on about??

    It's a reverse double Burnham. But more opaque. Jezza is wrong but right but yes but no but yes but...

    theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/27/labour-party-90s-corbyn-debate

  • Moses_ said:

    Latest from the Labour debacle of a conference...

    "...from the party that brought you the debacle of a leadership contest, Labour are delighted to bring you..." ;)

    I also love the comparison of Schrödinger's cat and Labour's policy on X.

    I so so wish Spitting Image (of the early, good years) was around today... I wonder what the creators now think/would have thought of how the political scene is starting to emulate the 1970s/80s (from Labour, to the Cold War, to the state of the Liberals... sadly Northern Ireland too, though hopefully not).
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    HYUFD said:

    If Benn has any self respect he will surely resign his ministerial post..

    No, as he will be the prime candidate to take over if there is any coup before 2020
    Corbyn learning from Brown - destroy anybody that the disgruntled might rally around....
    Whom did Gordon Brown destroy, that the disgruntled might have rallied around?

    In the run-up to the 2010 general election, David Miliband, Alistair Darling and Jack Straw held senior Cabinet posts, as did Lord Mandelson, Alan Johnson and Harriet Harman. It is Tory myth that Brown purged the Cabinet or the party.
    Not accurate. Mandelson was out of the Cabinet. Brown actually brought him back.
  • HYFUD It is not up for discussion..as in ..it will not be debated or voted on..
  • isam said:

    Palace fans singing "You dirty northern bastards" to Watford!

    You're all "up country" to me. :P
  • HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTBeXPNBhi8

    http://www.cnduk.org/cnd-media/item/2140-former-conservative-defence-secretary-slams-trident-replacement

    "A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point." - Portillo

    The compromise will be 2 Tridents. Britain has the capability of delivering nuclear even today.

    In 2012:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20179604
    The question remains which 5 million people do we want to kill by firing the missiles at their city?
    Pyongyang. As long as Iran (in all probablility soon), N Korea, Russia etc have nuclear weapons so will we
    The reason why Britain and France have independent nuclear weapons is because of.....Gerry.
    Gerry?
    Adams?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    MG I am informed on PB that Shadow ministers only receive their MPs salary..

    That is correct. I think only the Leader, Chief Whip, Leader of the Lords are paid more.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059

    HYFUD It is not up for discussion..as in ..it will not be debated or voted on..

    Depends on whether enough delegates vote for a debate
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,531
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    LOL, London rag says SNP BAD

    Not exactly...

    The solicitor, Christopher Hales, who acted for Thomson, was struck off last year for professional misconduct over his role in the deals.


    Was Thomson in court or anything done on it, just smearing and wild speculation at this point.
    What is your opinion of your top Tory donor, who went bankrupt , hid assets , bent as a three bob bit, I will not hold my breath waiting on your response.
  • Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    LOL, London rag says SNP BAD

    Not exactly...

    The solicitor, Christopher Hales, who acted for Thomson, was struck off last year for professional misconduct over his role in the deals.

    Meanwhile the cancer victim robbed of 50 grand does not count as she is back in England. Only a dozen other dodgy property deals to ignore.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    surbiton said:

    Moses_ said:

    Latest from the Labour debacle of a conference.....

    Latest: Trident will NOT be debated at conference
    The renewal (or non-renewal) of Trident will NOT be discussed at this week's Labour conference after all. It had been expected to be one of the eight topics to be picked from 12 possible areas for debate, but it did not make the cut.

    My colleague Christopher Hope says the party's policy committee did not choose it for discussion.
    BREAKING There will be NO vote on the Trident nuclear deterrent after all at the Labour party conference, sources tell me. M/F
    — Christopher Hope (@christopherhope) September 27, 2015

    Why is it a debacle ?
    Why is it not being discussed should be your question.

    The unions have decided for you. A debacle....you might as well just save this weeks hotel bills.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Did Len just 86 it?

    HYFUD It is not up for discussion..as in ..it will not be debated or voted on..

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049

    Did Len just 86 it?

    HYFUD It is not up for discussion..as in ..it will not be debated or voted on..

    It's Lab's don't ask don't tell strategy.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Moses_ said:

    surbiton said:

    Moses_ said:

    Latest from the Labour debacle of a conference.....

    Latest: Trident will NOT be debated at conference
    The renewal (or non-renewal) of Trident will NOT be discussed at this week's Labour conference after all. It had been expected to be one of the eight topics to be picked from 12 possible areas for debate, but it did not make the cut.

    My colleague Christopher Hope says the party's policy committee did not choose it for discussion.
    BREAKING There will be NO vote on the Trident nuclear deterrent after all at the Labour party conference, sources tell me. M/F
    — Christopher Hope (@christopherhope) September 27, 2015

    Why is it a debacle ?
    Why is it not being discussed should be your question.

    The unions have decided for you. A debacle....you might as well just save this weeks hotel bills.
    Listen you FA. Don't f*cking advise me what should be my question, you pin-prick of a brain !
    I still think it is not a debacle.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    Was Thomson in court or anything done on it

    The Law Society of Scotland said last week it was examining the property transactions detailed by this newspaper’s investigation. It can prosecute cases before the Scottish Solicitors’ Discipline Tribunal.

    A tribunal document also confirmed Michelle Thomson’s role in mortgage deals set out at the disciplinary hearing against Hales, a former partner at Grigor Hales in Edinburgh, in May last year.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :lol:
    TOPPING said:

    Did Len just 86 it?

    HYFUD It is not up for discussion..as in ..it will not be debated or voted on..

    It's Lab's don't ask don't tell strategy.
  • malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    LOL, London rag says SNP BAD

    Not exactly...

    The solicitor, Christopher Hales, who acted for Thomson, was struck off last year for professional misconduct over his role in the deals.
    Was Thomson in court or anything done on it, just smearing and wild speculation at this point.
    What is your opinion of your top Tory donor, who went bankrupt , hid assets , bent as a three bob bit, I will not hold my breath waiting on your response.

    Are you defending the way Thompson operated her property empire, busily swindling scottish voters, quite possibly with dodgy mortgage deals? She is not a donor she is a MP.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTBeXPNBhi8

    http://www.cnduk.org/cnd-media/item/2140-former-conservative-defence-secretary-slams-trident-replacement

    "A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point." - Portillo

    The compromise will be 2 Tridents. Britain has the capability of delivering nuclear even today.

    In 2012:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20179604
    The question remains which 5 million people do we want to kill by firing the missiles at their city?
    Pyongyang. As long as Iran (in all probablility soon), N Korea, Russia etc have nuclear weapons so will we
    The reason why Britain and France have independent nuclear weapons is because of.....Gerry.
    Gerry?
    Adams?
    Clearly not a nuclear threat, Putin's Russia, North Korea, China, maybe Iran do have nuclear weapons however
  • If Trident is forced onto The Debating list .. beware ...LEN WILL NOT BE HAPPY..
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTBeXPNBhi8

    http://www.cnduk.org/cnd-media/item/2140-former-conservative-defence-secretary-slams-trident-replacement

    "A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point." - Portillo

    The compromise will be 2 Tridents. Britain has the capability of delivering nuclear even today.

    In 2012:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20179604
    The question remains which 5 million people do we want to kill by firing the missiles at their city?
    Pyongyang. As long as Iran (in all probablility soon), N Korea, Russia etc have nuclear weapons so will we
    The reason why Britain and France have independent nuclear weapons is because of.....Gerry.
    Gerry?
    Adams?
    Clearly not a nuclear threat, Putin's Russia, North Korea, China, maybe Iran do have nuclear weapons however
    So do Israel, Pakistan and India. Do you want to have the option of killing millions of their citizens too?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,531
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    Was Thomson in court or anything done on it

    The Law Society of Scotland said last week it was examining the property transactions detailed by this newspaper’s investigation. It can prosecute cases before the Scottish Solicitors’ Discipline Tribunal.

    A tribunal document also confirmed Michelle Thomson’s role in mortgage deals set out at the disciplinary hearing against Hales, a former partner at Grigor Hales in Edinburgh, in May last year.
    So all smoke at present, hopefully if crooked she gets done good and proper.
  • surbiton
    surbiton said:

    O_o

    Hilary Benn purged

    Christopher Hope and Dan Hodges write

    Have the purges started? Hilary Benn, the most senior moderate in the Labour party, has been removed from the Labour party’s ruling national executive by Jeremy Corbyn.

    Sources close to Mr Benn confirm that the shadow foreign secretary was asked to stand down by Mr Corbyn, and not given a choice about staying.

    It shows how Mr Corbyn is shoring up his position on the NEC, which sets the rules and runs the Labour party.

    The NEC is elected by the members.
    Only a minority of the NEC are elected by Labour party members.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,531

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    LOL, London rag says SNP BAD

    Not exactly...

    The solicitor, Christopher Hales, who acted for Thomson, was struck off last year for professional misconduct over his role in the deals.
    Was Thomson in court or anything done on it, just smearing and wild speculation at this point.
    What is your opinion of your top Tory donor, who went bankrupt , hid assets , bent as a three bob bit, I will not hold my breath waiting on your response.
    Are you defending the way Thompson operated her property empire, busily swindling scottish voters, quite possibly with dodgy mortgage deals? She is not a donor she is a MP.

    I am saying that at present it is merely idle speculation, time will tell if she is a wrong un.
  • surbiton said:

    Moses_ said:

    surbiton said:

    Moses_ said:

    Latest from the Labour debacle of a conference.....

    Latest: Trident will NOT be debated at conference
    The renewal (or non-renewal) of Trident will NOT be discussed at this week's Labour conference after all. It had been expected to be one of the eight topics to be picked from 12 possible areas for debate, but it did not make the cut.

    My colleague Christopher Hope says the party's policy committee did not choose it for discussion.
    BREAKING There will be NO vote on the Trident nuclear deterrent after all at the Labour party conference, sources tell me. M/F
    — Christopher Hope (@christopherhope) September 27, 2015

    Why is it a debacle ?
    Why is it not being discussed should be your question.

    The unions have decided for you. A debacle....you might as well just save this weeks hotel bills.
    Listen you FA. Don't f*cking advise me what should be my question, you pin-prick of a brain !
    I still think it is not a debacle.
    I agree that from my perspective the Labour Conference will be a wonderfully successful event.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    LOL, London rag says SNP BAD

    Not exactly...

    The solicitor, Christopher Hales, who acted for Thomson, was struck off last year for professional misconduct over his role in the deals.
    Was Thomson in court or anything done on it, just smearing and wild speculation at this point.
    What is your opinion of your top Tory donor, who went bankrupt , hid assets , bent as a three bob bit, I will not hold my breath waiting on your response.
    Are you defending the way Thompson operated her property empire, busily swindling scottish voters, quite possibly with dodgy mortgage deals? She is not a donor she is a MP.
    I am saying that at present it is merely idle speculation, time will tell if she is a wrong un.
    Thats a long way from 'LOL' all of a sudden.
    The history of her activities seems pretty plain and we'll documented.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @rosschawkins: Corbyn at odds with two huge unions, bad blood in PLP, frustration, and the row isn't sorted, will have to be sorted another day

    Excellent start
  • If Trident is forced onto The Debating list .. beware ...LEN WILL NOT BE HAPPY..

    Since one of your recurrring if barely intelligible themes is the humungous amount of jobs lost if Trident leaves Scotland, you'll be gratified that you and McCluskey are now singing from the same hymn sheet.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Is the sort of person that moves him and his family to Taliban-controlled Afghanistan for a more Islamic environment the sort of person we want back in the UK?

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/25/last-british-detainee-in-guantanamo-bay-to-be-released
  • Good evening, everyone.

    My post-race ramble about Japan is up here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/japan-post-race-analysis.html

    Toying with a change for next year, perhaps writing in a sarcastic/faux epic style. Mind you, maybe that's indicative of how boring the season's become at the sharp end. Shades of 2011.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    surbiton said:

    Moses_ said:

    surbiton said:

    Moses_ said:

    Latest from the Labour debacle of a conference.....

    Latest: Trident will NOT be debated at conference
    The renewal (or non-renewal) of Trident will NOT be discussed at this week's Labour conference after all. It had been expected to be one of the eight topics to be picked from 12 possible areas for debate, but it did not make the cut.

    My colleague Christopher Hope says the party's policy committee did not choose it for discussion.
    BREAKING There will be NO vote on the Trident nuclear deterrent after all at the Labour party conference, sources tell me. M/F
    — Christopher Hope (@christopherhope) September 27, 2015

    Why is it a debacle ?
    Why is it not being discussed should be your question.

    The unions have decided for you. A debacle....you might as well just save this weeks hotel bills.
    Listen you FA. Don't f*cking advise me what should be my question, you pin-prick of a brain !
    I still think it is not a debacle.
    Oh dear, Leftie reverts to type.

    You do sound very stressed over these events, touch a sensitive point did we? Try some camomile tea and getting out in the real world where people are actually pointing and laughing if you bothered to look.

    On the other hand don't because it will keep the left as far away from power as possible which given your little " terrible two's tantrum" above can only be a good thing for the rest of us.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059
    edited September 2015

    If Trident is forced onto The Debating list .. beware ...LEN WILL NOT BE HAPPY..

    The amusing thing is Len may find himself on the right of this Corbyn led Labour Party
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,531

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    LOL, London rag says SNP BAD

    Not exactly...

    The solicitor, Christopher Hales, who acted for Thomson, was struck off last year for professional misconduct over his role in the deals.
    Was Thomson in court or anything done on it, just smearing and wild speculation at this point.
    What is your opinion of your top Tory donor, who went bankrupt , hid assets , bent as a three bob bit, I will not hold my breath waiting on your response.
    Are you defending the way Thompson operated her property empire, busily swindling scottish voters, quite possibly with dodgy mortgage deals? She is not a donor she is a MP.
    I am saying that at present it is merely idle speculation, time will tell if she is a wrong un.
    Thats a long way from 'LOL' all of a sudden.
    The history of her activities seems pretty plain and we'll documented.

    So why has nothing been done about it , other than some whinging by a London Rag.........LOL
    You seem easily persuaded by some hogwash in a right wing rag.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,059

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    So Unite want to keep Trident..that's a done deal then.. so will Labour..

    Unite want to keep trident until the submarines are built.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTBeXPNBhi8

    http://www.cnduk.org/cnd-media/item/2140-former-conservative-defence-secretary-slams-trident-replacement

    "A former defence secretary and some Generals [this week] wrote a letter demanding the renewal of the Trident nuclear weapons programme. You're probably familiar with these men who are worried about their own virility and buy large sports cars, and this I think is a case in point." - Portillo

    The compromise will be 2 Tridents. Britain has the capability of delivering nuclear even today.

    In 2012:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20179604
    The question remains which 5 million people do we want to kill by firing the missiles at their city?
    Pyongyang. As long as Iran (in all probablility soon), N Korea, Russia etc have nuclear weapons so will we
    The reason why Britain and France have independent nuclear weapons is because of.....Gerry.
    Gerry?
    Adams?
    Clearly not a nuclear threat, Putin's Russia, North Korea, China, maybe Iran do have nuclear weapons however
    So do Israel, Pakistan and India. Do you want to have the option of killing millions of their citizens too?
    Yes, if they kill millions of our citizens first
  • 63% of registered voters have now cast a ballot in Catalonia with two hours to go before the polls close.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Off topic - Lizzie Armitstead is World Champion! Surely she deserves a top three spot in SPOTY?

    If GB wins the Davis Cup then it will be hard for anyone to break a Murray/Hamilton/Froome top three. Armistead probably deserves to be there based on her performances all year but women's cycling just doesn't have the profile.
  • Mr. Dair, unsure if Hamilton would be value. He got it last time, I think, and this year it's been one-sided all season (save Singapore).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    MikeK said:

    Raheem Kassam @RaheemKassam
    .@GuidoFawkes, "I was out with the PM's aides last week and they laughed about EU renegotiations. They're not even pretending it's real."
    1:07 PM - 26 Sep 2015

    Which is not surprising in the least. The whole Cammo referendum has always been a farce.

    Yes it is. Something Daniel Hannon has continually pointed out. but if Cameron thinks that this will improve his cances of remaining he is mistaken. Look at the Business for Britain publications to see how they are setting things up for a coherent alternative by first listing what he used to say and what should be asked for as a minimum.
    http://businessforbritain.org/change-or-go/

    Streets ahead of Aaron Banks leave.eu
    There's a BfB event in guildhall on 1st I could swing invites for people if they want
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