politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Exactly five years ago today these were the Ladbrokes then

System

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Exactly five years ago today these were the Ladbrokes then LAB leadership betting prices

Here's how the #Labour leadership betting looked 5 years ago today:
1/3 David Miliband
5/2 Ed Miliband
50 Balls
66 Burnham
100 Abbott

Read the full story here

MP_SE

First.

Alanbrooke

MP_SE said:

First.

Sorry you are merely the prologue to this thread.

I'm first

philiph

Burnhams chances are the same, the odds are different.

JosiasJessop

Given the number of times the media called Ed 'David', perhaps Ladbrokes should have paid out on David winning ...

DavidL

The Scottish football season has 30 minutes left. :-(

CarlottaVance

FPT:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

CarlottaVance

Imagine if Balls had not lost his seat......

RobD

Eighth!

RobD

Wonder how much would have been offered for Corbyn?

DavidL

CarlottaVance said:

Imagine if Balls had not lost his seat......

By no means perfect but such a different class from these 4 sad losers as to be unimaginable. Of course he might have accepted it was the wife's turn.

JEO

Now here's a surprise. Jezbollah turns out to be a massive hypocrite:

Jeremy Corbyn, 2009: "No one should be sharing a platform with an avowed racist and an avowed fascist."

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/local-stories/i-m-not-a-nazi-says-bnp-boss-in-face-of-tv-attack-1-2307883

Dair

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

You've failed to back up a single word you have said, you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare, you lie about any aspect of Scotland and then lie about it being the fault of the SNP.

Back up the first thing you said before you make a similar request.

Or better still. Just stop lying.

blackburn63

Anybody on here laid Corbyn on betfair and if so what's your thinking?

dr_spyn

Alanbrooke said:

MP_SE said:

First.

Sorry you are merely the prologue to this thread.

I'm first

I'm Brian and so is my wife.

SimonStClare

CarlottaVance said:

Imagine if Balls had not lost his seat......

My guess is he’d still be in fourth place (again) – unless Mrs Balls had stood aside.

dr_spyn

CarlottaVance said:

Imagine if Balls had not lost his seat......

Cameron would be in trouble. Ed Balls is a heavyweight compared to the four horsemen of the apocalypse leading Labour forward to oblivion.

Oliver_PB

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

Imagine if Balls had not lost his seat......

By no means perfect but such a different class from these 4 sad losers as to be unimaginable. Of course he might have accepted it was the wife's turn.

Are you mad? Balls is awful and there is no way he would have won, likely coming second-to-last behind the equally unlikeable Kendall, and that's only because Kendall has run such a singularly uninspiring campaign that it's impossible to imagine him doing worse.

woody662

Labour were more left wing than the bookies though in 2010. Odds are right now

dr_spyn

Not the Daily Mash.

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/636271970657652736

Sean_F

JEO said:

Now here's a surprise. Jezbollah turns out to be a massive hypocrite:

Jeremy Corbyn, 2009: "No one should be sharing a platform with an avowed racist and an avowed fascist."

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/local-stories/i-m-not-a-nazi-says-bnp-boss-in-face-of-tv-attack-1-2307883

It all depends whether the fascist is their fascist or our fascist. Sinn Fein or an Islamist is our fascist. The BNP is their fascist.

rullko

FPT

Richard_Nabavi said:

rullko said:

I see. So Blair was misleading us, but to believe he was doing so was insane.

As you seem to define "sane people" as "those who believe that British Prime Ministers don't tell lies", it's difficult to provide the citation you request. Perhaps Robin Cook will do: he said that "Iraq probably has no weapons of mass destruction", despite Blair's dossier stating that it was "beyond doubt" that it did. In other words, Blair was lying, though Cook was a bit too mainstream to say so explicitly.

No, he did not say, in other words or in any words, that Blair was lying. He said that he didn't believe the conclusion. It would have been perfectly possible for two honest men reading the same intelligence reports to come to different conclusions as to the likely truth about whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (although presumably Cook wouldn't have seen the intelligence reports after June 2001). If Blair had made an honest misjudgement, that would have been a different matter: intelligence is rarely completely unambiguous. But it wasn't an honest misjudgement, he was deliberately trying to deceive us and parliament. That is something that those of my generation (I was born in 1953) would never have believed possible, before Blair.

Out of curiosity, why is it that you didn't believe it was possible? People tell lies, and the notion that politicians are especially prone to this hardly came in with New Labour. Was there a particular mechanism that you thought would prevent a PM from telling big lies, or that would stop such a person becoming PM in the first place?

MattW

Reposting, as I was off the end of the other thread.

The_Apocalypse said:

I also reject your spastic case. I have never heard anyone use the word 'scopey' in my life. I'd wager the vast majority of people probably couldn't even recognise what SCOPE was, or what it does.

Nonetheless it is real - I allege :-).

I'll address this first with a few references found without digging too hard. There's "scopey" and "scoper". They changed the name from Spastics Society to SCOPE in 1994, so perhaps not coincidental with your times or communities.

Nick Cohen discussing "scopey" in Jan 2015:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/political-correctnes-how-censorship-defeats-itself/&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=LL3cVYHoBMW17gbG1K3QAg

Defined in Online Dictionary of Playground Slang:
http://www.odps.org/glossword/index.php?a=term&d=4&t=10019

Defined in Urban Dictionary:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scopey

Guardian "In Other Words" column 2007:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/nov/23/inotherwords

Guardian: Catherine Bennett column 2011:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/oct/23/ricky-gervais-offensive-downs-syndrome

Discussed in the BBC "Ouch" Disability Podcast Episode 107 @ abhout 44:40. April 2014
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-26992779

I think I also recall a discussion on Thinking Allowed by Laurie Taylor.

That's one example that the real issue is usually the concept not the word, and creating a language kaleidoscope every few years is (imo) a distraction.

I'm quite sceptical about the whole 'offensive language' project - though I suppose it helps keep some journalists and Diversity Officers in jobs.

JEO

dr_spyn said:

Not the Daily Mash.

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/636271970657652736

Why don't the Left just have done with it and make being white and male illegal?

MikeK

DOW, S&P CLOSE LOWER IN BIGGEST REVERSAL SINCE OCT. 08 (CNBC)

U.S. stocks closed lower, after a failed attempt to rally from the Dow's worst 3-day point decline in history, as investor confidence waned amid continued concerns about China and global growth.

The Dow Jones industrial average and the S&P 500 closed about 1.3 percent lower after rallying nearly 3 percent earlier, their biggest reversal to the downside since Oct. 29, 2008. The S&P 500 remained in correction territory after falling there on Monday. The index also posted its first six-day losing streak since July 2012.

"That crash (Monday) was so big and so long since we had one (investors) don't want a repeat of 2008 so they bail out," said Lance Roberts, general partner at STA Wealth Management.

The Dow fell 205 points and S&P 500 closed below 1,900 after falling into negative territory in the last half hour of trade. The Nasdaq Composite failed to hold slight gains and closed 0.44 percent lower.
----------------------
IF CHINA FALLS AGAIN OVERNIGHT WE COULD BE IN FOR A PROLONGED COLD SPELL

rullko

Oliver_PB said:

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

Imagine if Balls had not lost his seat......

By no means perfect but such a different class from these 4 sad losers as to be unimaginable. Of course he might have accepted it was the wife's turn.

Are you mad? Balls is awful and there is no way he would have won, likely coming second-to-last behind the equally unlikeable Kendall, and that's only because Kendall has run such a singularly uninspiring campaign that it's impossible to imagine him doing worse.

Balls beat Burnham last time, though, and this time would've had the...gravitas?...of being Shadow Chancellor. I don't see why he'd do worse than in 2010.

Would still lose to Corbyn, obviously.

ReggieCide

dr_spyn said:

CarlottaVance said:

Imagine if Balls had not lost his seat......

Cameron would be in trouble. Ed Balls is a heavyweight compared to the four horsemen of the apocalypse leading Labour forward to oblivion.

That's fatism!

Jonathan

dr_spyn said:

CarlottaVance said:

Imagine if Balls had not lost his seat......

Cameron would be in trouble. Ed Balls is a heavyweight compared to the four horsemen of the apocalypse leading Labour forward to oblivion.

Balls in No10 is an option in this election.

dr_spyn

@ReggieCide If Mr Balls can do the Scots accent he might star in a new Austin Powers film.

NickPalmer

Today's polls show Sanders still ahead in NH but also Clinton doing better than in some recent polls, beating any Republican in Virginia. Trump ahead by miles but Kasich possibly breaking out of the pack in NH?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

CarlottaVance

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

SquareRoot

Corbyn really is bonkers.. Does he back "men only" carriages. I doubt he understands what anything is about as prejudice gets in the way..

A moron in fact.

SquareRoot

Heavyweight? He lost his seat. He was voted out. The only heavy thing about Balls is his need to diet.

ReggieCide

blackburn63 said:

Anybody on here laid Corbyn on betfair and if so what's your thinking?

I guess there must be some who've laid Corbyn but I don't think you'll find anyone here owning up.

Theuniondivvie

MattW said:

Reposting, as I was off the end of the other thread.

The_Apocalypse said:

I also reject your spastic case. I have never heard anyone use the word 'scopey' in my life. I'd wager the vast majority of people probably couldn't even recognise what SCOPE was, or what it does.

Nonetheless it is real - I allege :-).

I'll address this first with a few references found without digging too hard. There's "scopey" and "scoper". They changed the name from Spastics Society to SCOPE in 1994, so perhaps not coincidental with your times or communities.

Nick Cohen discussing "scopey" in Jan 2015:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/political-correctnes-how-censorship-defeats-itself/&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=LL3cVYHoBMW17gbG1K3QAg

Defined in Online Dictionary of Playground Slang:
http://www.odps.org/glossword/index.php?a=term&d=4&t=10019

Defined in Urban Dictionary:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scopey

Guardian "In Other Words" column 2007:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/nov/23/inotherwords

Guardian: Catherine Bennett column 2011:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/oct/23/ricky-gervais-offensive-downs-syndrome

Discussed in the BBC "Ouch" Disability Podcast Episode 107 @ abhout 44:40. April 2014
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-26992779

I think I also recall a discussion on Thinking Allowed by Laurie Taylor.

That's one example that the real issue is usually the concept not the word, and creating a language kaleidoscope every few years is (imo) a distraction.

I'm quite sceptical about the whole 'offensive language' project - though I suppose it helps keep some journalists and Diversity Officers in jobs.


I've never heard the term 'scopey' used as an insult, but it is a term for a horse that jumps well. Perhaps Greg Rutherford could be described as scopey.

rullko

SquareRoot said:

Corbyn really is bonkers.. Does he back "men only" carriages. I doubt he understands what anything is about as prejudice gets in the way..

A moron in fact.

Why would be the benefit of giving men their own carriages?

AndyJS

"Britain will be home to 8 million foreigners for first time as migrant crisis continues to engulf Europe

Oxford University's Migration Observatory predicts official figures out later this week will show a landmark number of foreign-born residents in the UK"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11822912/Number-of-foreigners-living-in-Britain-will-top-eight-million-for-the-first-time-says-report.html

SquareRoot

NickPalmer said:

Today's polls show Sanders still ahead in NH but also Clinton doing better than in some recent polls, beating any Republican in Virginia. Trump ahead by miles but Kasich possibly breaking out of the pack in NH?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

Could you please explain why you support someone who is likely to destroy at worst, and seriously damage the Labour Party as a de minimus ? Is it your former communist links re-surfacing?

SquareRoot

rullko said:

SquareRoot said:

Corbyn really is bonkers.. Does he back "men only" carriages. I doubt he understands what anything is about as prejudice gets in the way..

A moron in fact.

Why would be the benefit of giving men their own carriages?

And what would be the benefit of "women only " carriages.. Its like Apartheid.

ReggieCide

rullko said:

FPT

Richard_Nabavi said:

rullko said:

I see. So Blair was misleading us, but to believe he was doing so was insane.

As you seem to define "sane people" as "those who believe that British Prime Ministers don't tell lies", it's difficult to provide the citation you request. Perhaps Robin Cook will do: he said that "Iraq probably has no weapons of mass destruction", despite Blair's dossier stating that it was "beyond doubt" that it did. In other words, Blair was lying, though Cook was a bit too mainstream to say so explicitly.

No, he did not say, in other words or in any words, that Blair was lying. He said that he didn't believe the conclusion. It would have been perfectly possible for two honest men reading the same intelligence reports to come to different conclusions as to the likely truth about whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (although presumably Cook wouldn't have seen the intelligence reports after June 2001). If Blair had made an honest misjudgement, that would have been a different matter: intelligence is rarely completely unambiguous. But it wasn't an honest misjudgement, he was deliberately trying to deceive us and parliament. That is something that those of my generation (I was born in 1953) would never have believed possible, before Blair.

Out of curiosity, why is it that you didn't believe it was possible? People tell lies, and the notion that politicians are especially prone to this hardly came in with New Labour. Was there a particular mechanism that you thought would prevent a PM from telling big lies, or that would stop such a person becoming PM in the first place?

Suez?

JEO

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Now here's a surprise. Jezbollah turns out to be a massive hypocrite:

Jeremy Corbyn, 2009: "No one should be sharing a platform with an avowed racist and an avowed fascist."

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/local-stories/i-m-not-a-nazi-says-bnp-boss-in-face-of-tv-attack-1-2307883

It all depends whether the fascist is their fascist or our fascist. Sinn Fein or an Islamist is our fascist. The BNP is their fascist.

It's the same with the entire Labour party. The Blairites are getting all upset at Corbyn now, but they all tolerated Diane Abbott and Bernie Grant.

ReggieCide

JEO said:

dr_spyn said:

Not the Daily Mash.

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/636271970657652736

Why don't the Left just have done with it and make being white and male illegal?

Hold on - isn't that Corbyn? Add bearded and I'm with you.

Luckyguy1983

JEO said:

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Now here's a surprise. Jezbollah turns out to be a massive hypocrite:

Jeremy Corbyn, 2009: "No one should be sharing a platform with an avowed racist and an avowed fascist."

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/local-stories/i-m-not-a-nazi-says-bnp-boss-in-face-of-tv-attack-1-2307883

It all depends whether the fascist is their fascist or our fascist. Sinn Fein or an Islamist is our fascist. The BNP is their fascist.

It's the same with the entire Labour party. The Blairites are getting all upset at Corbyn now, but they all tolerated Diane Abbott and Bernie Grant.

And Tony Blair.

The_Apocalypse

@MattW

Still, I'd dispute how common the use of the word actually is. Something referenced by Guardian journos, as we all know doesn't necessarily reflect the real world.

The_Apocalypse

Women only train carriages? Really? If sex-attacks are happening, we need to find out why and tackle that, not simply displace the crime.

Sean_F

JEO said:

dr_spyn said:

Not the Daily Mash.

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/636271970657652736

Why don't the Left just have done with it and make being white and male illegal?

I think that for much of the left, being White and Male are somehow reprehensible characteristics. And, they wonder why they lose elections.

ReggieCide

rullko said:

Oliver_PB said:

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

Imagine if Balls had not lost his seat......

By no means perfect but such a different class from these 4 sad losers as to be unimaginable. Of course he might have accepted it was the wife's turn.

Are you mad? Balls is awful and there is no way he would have won, likely coming second-to-last behind the equally unlikeable Kendall, and that's only because Kendall has run such a singularly uninspiring campaign that it's impossible to imagine him doing worse.

Balls beat Burnham last time, though, and this time would've had the...gravitas?...of being Shadow Chancellor. I don't see why he'd do worse than in 2010.

Would still lose to Corbyn, obviously.

Balls has gravitas? Gravity more like!

kle4

The_Apocalypse said:

@MattW

Still, I'd dispute how common the use of the word actually is. Something referenced by Guardian journos, as we all know doesn't necessarily reflect the real world.

Heresy.

Dair

MikeK said:

DOW, S&P CLOSE LOWER IN BIGGEST REVERSAL SINCE OCT. 08 (CNBC)

U.S. stocks closed lower, after a failed attempt to rally from the Dow's worst 3-day point decline in history, as investor confidence waned amid continued concerns about China and global growth.

The Dow Jones industrial average and the S&P 500 closed about 1.3 percent lower after rallying nearly 3 percent earlier, their biggest reversal to the downside since Oct. 29, 2008. The S&P 500 remained in correction territory after falling there on Monday. The index also posted its first six-day losing streak since July 2012.

"That crash (Monday) was so big and so long since we had one (investors) don't want a repeat of 2008 so they bail out," said Lance Roberts, general partner at STA Wealth Management.

The Dow fell 205 points and S&P 500 closed below 1,900 after falling into negative territory in the last half hour of trade. The Nasdaq Composite failed to hold slight gains and closed 0.44 percent lower.
----------------------
IF CHINA FALLS AGAIN OVERNIGHT WE COULD BE IN FOR A PROLONGED COLD SPELL

Damned SNP, Salmond has a lot to answer for. Except for the part that's Nicola's fault.

The_Apocalypse

Oh not this whole 'poor white men' thing again that some on the Right do. Corbyn's idea is barmy, but it's hardly targeted against white men specifically for a start. And @Sean_F I could easily say that the Right must think being of a BME background is a reprehensible and wonder why most BMEs don't vote for them - but it wouldn't be true, just like your statement isn't.

rullko

SquareRoot said:

rullko said:

SquareRoot said:

Corbyn really is bonkers.. Does he back "men only" carriages. I doubt he understands what anything is about as prejudice gets in the way..

A moron in fact.

Why would be the benefit of giving men their own carriages?

And what would be the benefit of "women only " carriages.. Its like Apartheid.

The front page suggests that it's part of a "plan to tackle sex attacks". It may turn out to be a loony and unenforceable idea, but since we don't know any of the details I don't see how we can pronounce on it one way or the other.

Luckyguy1983

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

Eh? I said that. Nor was it a lie, it was my parent's friend; he's now gone back to Geneva. He did receive free healthcare - someone here has now told me there is every likelihood he is entitled anyway - I accepted that and didn't argue the point. Get a grip!

Dair

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

My mistake, the first direct lie was from Luckyguy. You just say an opportunity for your usual SNP bad lies and tacked on.

Pitiful.

HYUFD

NickPalmer said:

Today's polls show Sanders still ahead in NH but also Clinton doing better than in some recent polls, beating any Republican in Virginia. Trump ahead by miles but Kasich possibly breaking out of the pack in NH?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

Gallup today had a poll of Hispanics of 2016 candidates. Clinton was on +40%, Jeb Bush on +11%, Marco Rubio on +5%, Bernie Sanders on +5%, Scott Walker +2%, Christie on -2%, Kasich -3%, Cruz -7%. Donald Trump is on -51%
http://www.gallup.com/poll/184814/hispanics-frown-trump-not-rest-gop-field.aspx

ToryJim

rullko said:

SquareRoot said:

rullko said:

SquareRoot said:

Corbyn really is bonkers.. Does he back "men only" carriages. I doubt he understands what anything is about as prejudice gets in the way..

A moron in fact.

Why would be the benefit of giving men their own carriages?

And what would be the benefit of "women only " carriages.. Its like Apartheid.

The front page suggests that it's part of a "plan to tackle sex attacks". It may turn out to be a loony and unenforceable idea, but since we don't know any of the details I don't see how we can pronounce on it one way or the other.

Yes because all men are sex attackers.

ReggieCide

JEO said:

Sean_F said:

JEO said:

Now here's a surprise. Jezbollah turns out to be a massive hypocrite:

Jeremy Corbyn, 2009: "No one should be sharing a platform with an avowed racist and an avowed fascist."

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/local-stories/i-m-not-a-nazi-says-bnp-boss-in-face-of-tv-attack-1-2307883

It all depends whether the fascist is their fascist or our fascist. Sinn Fein or an Islamist is our fascist. The BNP is their fascist.

It's the same with the entire Labour party. The Blairites are getting all upset at Corbyn now, but they all tolerated Diane Abbott and Bernie Grant.

As I think I've said before, I lived in Bernie Grant's Tottenham. The discrimination was appalling.

CarlottaVance

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

My mistake, the first direct lie was from Luckyguy. You just say an opportunity for your usual SNP bad lies and tacked on.

Pitiful.

So no 'direct lies' - as you claimed?

I think one of us is indeed 'pitiful'......

Meanwhile, how about YOUR claim that the Scottish NHS is better over the years than the E&W NHS (which doesn't exist...)?

rullko

ReggieCide said:

rullko said:

FPT

Richard_Nabavi said:

rullko said:

I see. So Blair was misleading us, but to believe he was doing so was insane.

As you seem to define "sane people" as "those who believe that British Prime Ministers don't tell lies", it's difficult to provide the citation you request. Perhaps Robin Cook will do: he said that "Iraq probably has no weapons of mass destruction", despite Blair's dossier stating that it was "beyond doubt" that it did. In other words, Blair was lying, though Cook was a bit too mainstream to say so explicitly.

No, he did not say, in other words or in any words, that Blair was lying. He said that he didn't believe the conclusion. It would have been perfectly possible for two honest men reading the same intelligence reports to come to different conclusions as to the likely truth about whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (although presumably Cook wouldn't have seen the intelligence reports after June 2001). If Blair had made an honest misjudgement, that would have been a different matter: intelligence is rarely completely unambiguous. But it wasn't an honest misjudgement, he was deliberately trying to deceive us and parliament. That is something that those of my generation (I was born in 1953) would never have believed possible, before Blair.

Out of curiosity, why is it that you didn't believe it was possible? People tell lies, and the notion that politicians are especially prone to this hardly came in with New Labour. Was there a particular mechanism that you thought would prevent a PM from telling big lies, or that would stop such a person becoming PM in the first place?

Suez?

Yes. That makes it even stranger that anyone could believe, in 2003, that there existed some mystical force which made British Prime Ministers into upright men of principle.

Dair

The_Apocalypse said:

Oh not this whole 'poor white men' thing again that some on the Right do. Corbyn's idea is barmy, but it's hardly targeted against white men specifically for a start. And @Sean_F I could easily say that the Right must think being of a BME background is a reprehensible and wonder why most BMEs don't vote for them - but it wouldn't be true, just like your statement isn't.

If you are genuinely 21yo and female, you have much higher life opportunities than a 21yo man, you also have something close to double the earnings potential.

Positive discrimination and the need to further advance Equality Legislation utterly fails to reflect that if you make a new law in the 1980s the effect of that law will NEVER actually be effective (in total) until 2020 due to the working life of individuals especially at the top end of management.

I've never worked for a male boss. And I graduated in 1994.

Today, a girl will get better grades than a boy at school, get a better degree, in a more relevant subject to employers, to whose HR (predomantly women) will be more likely to hire them and be promoted faster, earning a higher wage at every level. Of course, this doesn't apply to women in their 50s and 60s, so the National stats don't reflect that.

CarlottaVance

Luckyguy1983 said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

Eh? I said that. Nor was it a lie, it was my parent's friend; he's now gone back to Geneva. He did receive free healthcare - someone here has now told me there is every likelihood he is entitled anyway - I accepted that and didn't argue the point. Get a grip!

Twas not I who refuted your claim (I didn't mention it) - it was Dair who can't abide the slightest criticism of the SNP government to conflate the two and try to divert attention from HIS (so far, completely unsubstantiated) claims about the performance of the Scottish NHS. Its a cult, I tell ya!

Dair

Luckyguy1983 said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

Eh? I said that. Nor was it a lie, it was my parent's friend; he's now gone back to Geneva. He did receive free healthcare - someone here has now told me there is every likelihood he is entitled anyway - I accepted that and didn't argue the point. Get a grip!

no, it was a lie.

And it's still a lie. His government paid for his healthcare as he is an EEA citizen and the EHIC is an EEA measure not an EU one.

Which I already said but you clearly ignored to let Carlotta start another of her SNP Bad rants.

rcs1000

Luckyguy1983 said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

Eh? I said that. Nor was it a lie, it was my parent's friend; he's now gone back to Geneva. He did receive free healthcare - someone here has now told me there is every likelihood he is entitled anyway - I accepted that and didn't argue the point. Get a grip!

What you say sounds completely true. According to this: http://www.pah.nhs.uk/files/b) Entitlement EEA Visitors.pdf

EEA visitors can get treated (for free) for things that need to happen now (i.e. emergency treatments), but not for things that could wait until they get back to their host country.

JEO

The_Apocalypse said:

Oh not this whole 'poor white men' thing again that some on the Right do. Corbyn's idea is barmy, but it's hardly targeted against white men specifically for a start. And @Sean_F I could easily say that the Right must think being of a BME background is a reprehensible and wonder why most BMEs don't vote for them - but it wouldn't be true, just like your statement isn't.

There is a clear difference in that the Right do not bring forward proposals that explicitly discriminate against black people or women. The Left regularly bring forward proposals that explicitly discriminate against white people or men. In the same way, if a Conservative MP came out and said something racist against all black people, they would be kicked out of the party, but if a Labour MP came out and said something racist against all white people, it is ignored.

Dair

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

My mistake, the first direct lie was from Luckyguy. You just say an opportunity for your usual SNP bad lies and tacked on.

Pitiful.

So no 'direct lies' - as you claimed?

I think one of us is indeed 'pitiful'......

Meanwhile, how about YOUR claim that the Scottish NHS is better over the years than the E&W NHS (which doesn't exist...)?

Every post you have ever made on this forum with regards to the SNP is a lie. Sorry, but I'm not here to play your game.

CarlottaVance

Dair said:

MikeK said:

DOW, S&P CLOSE LOWER IN BIGGEST REVERSAL SINCE OCT. 08 (CNBC)

U.S. stocks closed lower, after a failed attempt to rally from the Dow's worst 3-day point decline in history, as investor confidence waned amid continued concerns about China and global growth.

The Dow Jones industrial average and the S&P 500 closed about 1.3 percent lower after rallying nearly 3 percent earlier, their biggest reversal to the downside since Oct. 29, 2008. The S&P 500 remained in correction territory after falling there on Monday. The index also posted its first six-day losing streak since July 2012.

"That crash (Monday) was so big and so long since we had one (investors) don't want a repeat of 2008 so they bail out," said Lance Roberts, general partner at STA Wealth Management.

The Dow fell 205 points and S&P 500 closed below 1,900 after falling into negative territory in the last half hour of trade. The Nasdaq Composite failed to hold slight gains and closed 0.44 percent lower.
----------------------
IF CHINA FALLS AGAIN OVERNIGHT WE COULD BE IN FOR A PROLONGED COLD SPELL

Damned SNP, Salmond has a lot to answer for. Except for the part that's Nicola's fault.

Oh we know the Sainted Eck and Beloved Nicola are beyond criticism....how's that $100 oil doing?

CarlottaVance

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

My mistake, the first direct lie was from Luckyguy. You just say an opportunity for your usual SNP bad lies and tacked on.

Pitiful.

So no 'direct lies' - as you claimed?

I think one of us is indeed 'pitiful'......

Meanwhile, how about YOUR claim that the Scottish NHS is better over the years than the E&W NHS (which doesn't exist...)?

Every post you have ever made on this forum with regards to the SNP is a lie. Sorry, but I'm not here to play your game.

Prove me wrong.

Substantiate your post about the superiority of the SNP run Scottish NHS over the (non-existent) 'E&W NHS'

Dair

rcs1000 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

Eh? I said that. Nor was it a lie, it was my parent's friend; he's now gone back to Geneva. He did receive free healthcare - someone here has now told me there is every likelihood he is entitled anyway - I accepted that and didn't argue the point. Get a grip!

What you say sounds completely true. According to this: http://www.pah.nhs.uk/files/b) Entitlement EEA Visitors.pdf

EEA visitors can get treated (for free) for things that need to happen now (i.e. emergency treatments), but not for things that could wait until they get back to their host country.

They are NOT treated for free. Their national government/health service is billed directly by the NHS trust which carries out the service (the same thing happens within the UK).

Just because the individual does not get given a bill does not mean she is treated "for free". No-one who is not a UK resident gets treated for free by any part of the NHS.

kle4

rullko said:

SquareRoot said:

rullko said:

SquareRoot said:

Corbyn really is bonkers.. Does he back "men only" carriages. I doubt he understands what anything is about as prejudice gets in the way..

A moron in fact.

Why would be the benefit of giving men their own carriages?

And what would be the benefit of "women only " carriages.. Its like Apartheid.

The front page suggests that it's part of a "plan to tackle sex attacks". It may turn out to be a loony and unenforceable idea, but since we don't know any of the details I don't see how we can pronounce on it one way or the other.

What possible other details would make the idea of gender segregated train carriages a good idea? It may be too soon to pronounce on merits of the overall plan, but that aspect of it is clearly bonkers already, and it is the right time to pronounce upon it.

isam

The Last Boy Scout...
Bobajob...
BobaFett...
TLBS...
Han Dodges...

CarlottaVance

rcs1000 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

Eh? I said that. Nor was it a lie, it was my parent's friend; he's now gone back to Geneva. He did receive free healthcare - someone here has now told me there is every likelihood he is entitled anyway - I accepted that and didn't argue the point. Get a grip!

What you say sounds completely true. According to this: http://www.pah.nhs.uk/files/b) Entitlement EEA Visitors.pdf

EEA visitors can get treated (for free) for things that need to happen now (i.e. emergency treatments), but not for things that could wait until they get back to their host country.

Which would also be consistent with what happened to my Guernsey (non EEA) friend - when you're not entitled to it the NHS provides superb care - but comes after you for the money.....

Sean_F

The_Apocalypse said:

Oh not this whole 'poor white men' thing again that some on the Right do. Corbyn's idea is barmy, but it's hardly targeted against white men specifically for a start. And @Sean_F I could easily say that the Right must think being of a BME background is a reprehensible and wonder why most BMEs don't vote for them - but it wouldn't be true, just like your statement isn't.

So when Julie Bindel heads an article on CIF "Why I Hate Men" how do you think one should interpret it?

Do you think a right wing journalist would head an article "Why I hate blacks?"

Dair

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

MikeK said:

DOW, S&P CLOSE LOWER IN BIGGEST REVERSAL SINCE OCT. 08 (CNBC)

U.S. stocks closed lower, after a failed attempt to rally from the Dow's worst 3-day point decline in history, as investor confidence waned amid continued concerns about China and global growth.

The Dow Jones industrial average and the S&P 500 closed about 1.3 percent lower after rallying nearly 3 percent earlier, their biggest reversal to the downside since Oct. 29, 2008. The S&P 500 remained in correction territory after falling there on Monday. The index also posted its first six-day losing streak since July 2012.

"That crash (Monday) was so big and so long since we had one (investors) don't want a repeat of 2008 so they bail out," said Lance Roberts, general partner at STA Wealth Management.

The Dow fell 205 points and S&P 500 closed below 1,900 after falling into negative territory in the last half hour of trade. The Nasdaq Composite failed to hold slight gains and closed 0.44 percent lower.
----------------------
IF CHINA FALLS AGAIN OVERNIGHT WE COULD BE IN FOR A PROLONGED COLD SPELL

Damned SNP, Salmond has a lot to answer for. Except for the part that's Nicola's fault.

Oh we know the Sainted Eck and Beloved Nicola are beyond criticism....how's that $100 oil doing?

Oil is currently $44 a barrel. For Indpeendent Norway, which is very similar to Scotland EXCEPT being somewhat more reliant on oil (about 40% compared to 15% of GDP) only requires a $40 barrel for her finances to break even.

300 years of Union and 40 years of being plundered by Westminster have left Scotland apparently requiring $115 barrels to break even.

The Union seems to be a very bad deal.

ReggieCide

rullko said:

ReggieCide said:

rullko said:

FPT

Richard_Nabavi said:

rullko said:

I see. So Blair was misleading us, but to believe he was doing so was insane.

As you seem to define "sane people" as "those who believe that British Prime Ministers don't tell lies", it's difficult to provide the citation you request. Perhaps Robin Cook will do: he said that "Iraq probably has no weapons of mass destruction", despite Blair's dossier stating that it was "beyond doubt" that it did. In other words, Blair was lying, though Cook was a bit too mainstream to say so explicitly.

No, he did not say, in other words or in any words, that Blair was lying. He said that he didn't believe the conclusion. It would have been perfectly possible for two honest men reading the same intelligence reports to come to different conclusions as to the likely truth about whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (although presumably Cook wouldn't have seen the intelligence reports after June 2001). If Blair had made an honest misjudgement, that would have been a different matter: intelligence is rarely completely unambiguous. But it wasn't an honest misjudgement, he was deliberately trying to deceive us and parliament. That is something that those of my generation (I was born in 1953) would never have believed possible, before Blair.

Out of curiosity, why is it that you didn't believe it was possible? People tell lies, and the notion that politicians are especially prone to this hardly came in with New Labour. Was there a particular mechanism that you thought would prevent a PM from telling big lies, or that would stop such a person becoming PM in the first place?

Suez?

Yes. That makes it even stranger that anyone could believe, in 2003, that there existed some mystical force which made British Prime Ministers into upright men of principle.

I'm not sure I can think of any upright men (or women) of principle. Plenty who say they are but then maybe I mix in the wrong circles. I like to think I am principled but know that ain't the whole truth.

The_Apocalypse

@Dair And yet men overall in their lifetimes will still earn more than women. And that advantage that young women have btw, in terms of earnings disappears as soon as women are considered likely to have children. In my part-time jobs (since 16) I've only worked for male bosses.

JEO said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Oh not this whole 'poor white men' thing again that some on the Right do. Corbyn's idea is barmy, but it's hardly targeted against white men specifically for a start. And @Sean_F I could easily say that the Right must think being of a BME background is a reprehensible and wonder why most BMEs don't vote for them - but it wouldn't be true, just like your statement isn't.

There is a clear difference in that the Right do not bring forward proposals that explicitly discriminate against black people or women. The Left regularly bring forward proposals that explicitly discriminate against white people or men. In the same way, if a Conservative MP came out and said something racist against all black people, they would be kicked out of the party, but if a Labour MP came out and said something racist against all white people, it is ignored.

Yet the Right felt the need to prove how inclusive they were of women and BMEs in the Cameron era. Again, I do not see how Corbyn's plans specifically discriminate against white men. There are other men who won't be able to go in those carriages that aren't white. The Labour party is mostly white, its supporters on the whole are mostly white, so the idea they actually are anti-white, and anti-male is weird. All their leaders have been white and male, and for that matter most of those within top positions in the party.

CarlottaVance

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

MikeK said:

DOW, S&P CLOSE LOWER IN BIGGEST REVERSAL SINCE OCT. 08 (CNBC)

U.S. stocks closed lower, after a failed attempt to rally from the Dow's worst 3-day point decline in history, as investor confidence waned amid continued concerns about China and global growth.

The Dow Jones industrial average and the S&P 500 closed about 1.3 percent lower after rallying nearly 3 percent earlier, their biggest reversal to the downside since Oct. 29, 2008. The S&P 500 remained in correction territory after falling there on Monday. The index also posted its first six-day losing streak since July 2012.

"That crash (Monday) was so big and so long since we had one (investors) don't want a repeat of 2008 so they bail out," said Lance Roberts, general partner at STA Wealth Management.

The Dow fell 205 points and S&P 500 closed below 1,900 after falling into negative territory in the last half hour of trade. The Nasdaq Composite failed to hold slight gains and closed 0.44 percent lower.
----------------------
IF CHINA FALLS AGAIN OVERNIGHT WE COULD BE IN FOR A PROLONGED COLD SPELL

Damned SNP, Salmond has a lot to answer for. Except for the part that's Nicola's fault.

Oh we know the Sainted Eck and Beloved Nicola are beyond criticism....how's that $100 oil doing?

The Union seems to be a very bad deal.

Your compatriots didn't seem to think so 11 months ago.....

The_Apocalypse

Sean_F said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Oh not this whole 'poor white men' thing again that some on the Right do. Corbyn's idea is barmy, but it's hardly targeted against white men specifically for a start. And @Sean_F I could easily say that the Right must think being of a BME background is a reprehensible and wonder why most BMEs don't vote for them - but it wouldn't be true, just like your statement isn't.

So when Julie Bindel heads an article on CIF "Why I Hate Men" how do you think one should interpret it?

Do you think a right wing journalist would head an article "Why I hate blacks?"

When did Julie Bindel represent everyone on the Left? And while a right-wing journalist may not have said the above, post-2011 riots David Starkey, a right-winger pretty much said borderline racist comments on Newsnight.

Oliver_PB

I'd take the Independent frontpage with a cellar full of salt, given the minimarket for sensationalist Corbyn headlines and how The Independent has been stealing the playbook of the mid-market rags.

MTimT

Theuniondivvie said:

MattW said:

Reposting, as I was off the end of the other thread.

The_Apocalypse said:

I also reject your spastic case. I have never heard anyone use the word 'scopey' in my life. I'd wager the vast majority of people probably couldn't even recognise what SCOPE was, or what it does.

Nonetheless it is real - I allege :-).

I'll address this first with a few references found without digging too hard. There's "scopey" and "scoper". They changed the name from Spastics Society to SCOPE in 1994, so perhaps not coincidental with your times or communities.

Nick Cohen discussing "scopey" in Jan 2015:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/political-correctnes-how-censorship-defeats-itself/&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=LL3cVYHoBMW17gbG1K3QAg

Defined in Online Dictionary of Playground Slang:
http://www.odps.org/glossword/index.php?a=term&d=4&t=10019

Defined in Urban Dictionary:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scopey

Guardian "In Other Words" column 2007:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/nov/23/inotherwords

Guardian: Catherine Bennett column 2011:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/oct/23/ricky-gervais-offensive-downs-syndrome

Discussed in the BBC "Ouch" Disability Podcast Episode 107 @ abhout 44:40. April 2014
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-26992779

I think I also recall a discussion on Thinking Allowed by Laurie Taylor.

That's one example that the real issue is usually the concept not the word, and creating a language kaleidoscope every few years is (imo) a distraction.

I'm quite sceptical about the whole 'offensive language' project - though I suppose it helps keep some journalists and Diversity Officers in jobs.

I've never heard the term 'scopey' used as an insult, but it is a term for a horse that jumps well. Perhaps Greg Rutherford could be described as scopey.

We have a couple of scopey horses in the back yard. Even the dressage horse likes a good cross country every now and then to blow away the cobwebs.

DaemonBarber

The_Apocalypse said:

Sean_F said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Oh not this whole 'poor white men' thing again that some on the Right do. Corbyn's idea is barmy, but it's hardly targeted against white men specifically for a start. And @Sean_F I could easily say that the Right must think being of a BME background is a reprehensible and wonder why most BMEs don't vote for them - but it wouldn't be true, just like your statement isn't.

So when Julie Bindel heads an article on CIF "Why I Hate Men" how do you think one should interpret it?

Do you think a right wing journalist would head an article "Why I hate blacks?"

When did Julie Bindel represent everyone on the Left? And while a right-wing journalist may not have said the above, post-2011 riots David Starkey, a right-winger pretty much said borderline racist comments on Newsnight.

Since when did David Starkey represent all right wingers?

Y0kel

Democrats 2016 Nomination.

There are stories doing the rounds that Barack Obama has signalled his approval for Joe Biden to have a pop at the nomination.

Dair

The_Apocalypse said:

@Dair And yet men overall in their lifetimes will still earn more than women. And that advantage that young women have btw, in terms of earnings disappears as soon as women are considered likely to have children. In my part-time jobs (since 16) I've only worked for male bosses.

Men born in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s will earn more in their lifetimes than women. Which is the bulk of the population but not reflective of the position TODAY.

Men born in the 1990s will earn far less than women. They will also face considerable societal pressure (mainly from older generations) to be the "breadwinner" which, rightly or more appropriately wrongly, will mean their families put them under considerable mental stress.

Luckyguy1983

Dair said:

rcs1000 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

Eh? I said that. Nor was it a lie, it was my parent's friend; he's now gone back to Geneva. He did receive free healthcare - someone here has now told me there is every likelihood he is entitled anyway - I accepted that and didn't argue the point. Get a grip!

What you say sounds completely true. According to this: http://www.pah.nhs.uk/files/b) Entitlement EEA Visitors.pdf

EEA visitors can get treated (for free) for things that need to happen now (i.e. emergency treatments), but not for things that could wait until they get back to their host country.

They are NOT treated for free. Their national government/health service is billed directly by the NHS trust which carries out the service (the same thing happens within the UK).

Just because the individual does not get given a bill does not mean she is treated "for free". No-one who is not a UK resident gets treated for free by any part of the NHS.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11793651/Loophole-allows-foreigners-to-charge-NHS-for-treatment-abroad.html

AndyJS

The_Apocalypse said:

Oh not this whole 'poor white men' thing again that some on the Right do. Corbyn's idea is barmy, but it's hardly targeted against white men specifically for a start. And @Sean_F I could easily say that the Right must think being of a BME background is a reprehensible and wonder why most BMEs don't vote for them - but it wouldn't be true, just like your statement isn't.

Labour won't win again because they've antagonised white male voters.

Dair

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

MikeK said:

DOW, S&P CLOSE LOWER IN BIGGEST REVERSAL SINCE OCT. 08 (CNBC)

U.S. stocks closed lower, after a failed attempt to rally from the Dow's worst 3-day point decline in history, as investor confidence waned amid continued concerns about China and global growth.

The Dow Jones industrial average and the S&P 500 closed about 1.3 percent lower after rallying nearly 3 percent earlier, their biggest reversal to the downside since Oct. 29, 2008. The S&P 500 remained in correction territory after falling there on Monday. The index also posted its first six-day losing streak since July 2012.

"That crash (Monday) was so big and so long since we had one (investors) don't want a repeat of 2008 so they bail out," said Lance Roberts, general partner at STA Wealth Management.

The Dow fell 205 points and S&P 500 closed below 1,900 after falling into negative territory in the last half hour of trade. The Nasdaq Composite failed to hold slight gains and closed 0.44 percent lower.
----------------------
IF CHINA FALLS AGAIN OVERNIGHT WE COULD BE IN FOR A PROLONGED COLD SPELL

Damned SNP, Salmond has a lot to answer for. Except for the part that's Nicola's fault.

Oh we know the Sainted Eck and Beloved Nicola are beyond criticism....how's that $100 oil doing?

The Union seems to be a very bad deal.

Your compatriots didn't seem to think so 11 months ago.....

Scottish born residents voted to dissolve the UK.

HurstLlama

kle4 said:

rullko said:

SquareRoot said:

rullko said:

SquareRoot said:

Corbyn really is bonkers.. Does he back "men only" carriages. I doubt he understands what anything is about as prejudice gets in the way..

A moron in fact.

Why would be the benefit of giving men their own carriages?

And what would be the benefit of "women only " carriages.. Its like Apartheid.

The front page suggests that it's part of a "plan to tackle sex attacks". It may turn out to be a loony and unenforceable idea, but since we don't know any of the details I don't see how we can pronounce on it one way or the other.

What possible other details would make the idea of gender segregated train carriages a good idea? It may be too soon to pronounce on merits of the overall plan, but that aspect of it is clearly bonkers already, and it is the right time to pronounce upon it.

Those of us richer in years will remember when there were ladies only waiting rooms at railway stations, indeed the one on the down line at Haywards Heath was still there in the mid-1990s. So there is nothing new about ladies being able to segregate themselves whilst traveling and nobody in days of yore thought it odd let alone bonkers.

Quite why ladies only facilities were done away with I don't know. Perhaps ladies stopped using them because they felt safer amongst mixed company than being on their own.

ReggieCide

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

My mistake, the first direct lie was from Luckyguy. You just say an opportunity for your usual SNP bad lies and tacked on.

Pitiful.

So no 'direct lies' - as you claimed?

I think one of us is indeed 'pitiful'......

Meanwhile, how about YOUR claim that the Scottish NHS is better over the years than the E&W NHS (which doesn't exist...)?

Every post you have ever made on this forum with regards to the SNP is a lie. Sorry, but I'm not here to play your game.

If you can substantiate this absurd statement then you really should get a life.

CarlottaVance

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

MikeK said:

DOW, S&P CLOSE LOWER IN BIGGEST REVERSAL SINCE OCT. 08 (CNBC)

U.S. stocks closed lower, after a failed attempt to rally from the Dow's worst 3-day point decline in history, as investor confidence waned amid continued concerns about China and global growth.

The Dow Jones industrial average and the S&P 500 closed about 1.3 percent lower after rallying nearly 3 percent earlier, their biggest reversal to the downside since Oct. 29, 2008. The S&P 500 remained in correction territory after falling there on Monday. The index also posted its first six-day losing streak since July 2012.

"That crash (Monday) was so big and so long since we had one (investors) don't want a repeat of 2008 so they bail out," said Lance Roberts, general partner at STA Wealth Management.

The Dow fell 205 points and S&P 500 closed below 1,900 after falling into negative territory in the last half hour of trade. The Nasdaq Composite failed to hold slight gains and closed 0.44 percent lower.
----------------------
IF CHINA FALLS AGAIN OVERNIGHT WE COULD BE IN FOR A PROLONGED COLD SPELL

Damned SNP, Salmond has a lot to answer for. Except for the part that's Nicola's fault.

Oh we know the Sainted Eck and Beloved Nicola are beyond criticism....how's that $100 oil doing?

The Union seems to be a very bad deal.

Your compatriots didn't seem to think so 11 months ago.....

Scottish born residents voted to dissolve the UK.

But that wasn't the electorate!

So much for 'civic nationalism'!

Or are you more of a 'blood & soil' type?

Dair

Luckyguy1983 said:

Dair said:

rcs1000 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

Eh? I said that. Nor was it a lie, it was my parent's friend; he's now gone back to Geneva. He did receive free healthcare - someone here has now told me there is every likelihood he is entitled anyway - I accepted that and didn't argue the point. Get a grip!

What you say sounds completely true. According to this: http://www.pah.nhs.uk/files/b) Entitlement EEA Visitors.pdf

EEA visitors can get treated (for free) for things that need to happen now (i.e. emergency treatments), but not for things that could wait until they get back to their host country.

They are NOT treated for free. Their national government/health service is billed directly by the NHS trust which carries out the service (the same thing happens within the UK).

Just because the individual does not get given a bill does not mean she is treated "for free". No-one who is not a UK resident gets treated for free by any part of the NHS.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11793651/Loophole-allows-foreigners-to-charge-NHS-for-treatment-abroad.html

So more posts you know are sensationalist, media lies.

HYUFD

Dair said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@Dair And yet men overall in their lifetimes will still earn more than women. And that advantage that young women have btw, in terms of earnings disappears as soon as women are considered likely to have children. In my part-time jobs (since 16) I've only worked for male bosses.

Men born in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s will earn more in their lifetimes than women. Which is the bulk of the population but not reflective of the position TODAY.

Men born in the 1990s will earn far less than women. They will also face considerable societal pressure (mainly from older generations) to be the "breadwinner" which, rightly or more appropriately wrongly, will mean their families put them under considerable mental stress.

Maybe up until their early thirties once most women start having children then even now women fall behind men in terms of earnings

JEO

The_Apocalypse said:

Sean_F said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Oh not this whole 'poor white men' thing again that some on the Right do. Corbyn's idea is barmy, but it's hardly targeted against white men specifically for a start. And @Sean_F I could easily say that the Right must think being of a BME background is a reprehensible and wonder why most BMEs don't vote for them - but it wouldn't be true, just like your statement isn't.

So when Julie Bindel heads an article on CIF "Why I Hate Men" how do you think one should interpret it?

Do you think a right wing journalist would head an article "Why I hate blacks?"

When did Julie Bindel represent everyone on the Left? And while a right-wing journalist may not have said the above, post-2011 riots David Starkey, a right-winger pretty much said borderline racist comments on Newsnight.

And when that right winger said something so obviously racist, he was widely condemned all round in a chorus of disapproval as there was massive coverage of it. Meanwhile, when Julie Bindel writes something so horribly sexist, the media ignores it.

Dair

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

MikeK said:

DOW, S&P CLOSE LOWER IN BIGGEST REVERSAL SINCE OCT. 08 (CNBC)

U.S. stocks closed lower, after a failed attempt to rally from the Dow's worst 3-day point decline in history, as investor confidence waned amid continued concerns about China and global growth.

The Dow Jones industrial average and the S&P 500 closed about 1.3 percent lower after rallying nearly 3 percent earlier, their biggest reversal to the downside since Oct. 29, 2008. The S&P 500 remained in correction territory after falling there on Monday. The index also posted its first six-day losing streak since July 2012.

"That crash (Monday) was so big and so long since we had one (investors) don't want a repeat of 2008 so they bail out," said Lance Roberts, general partner at STA Wealth Management.

The Dow fell 205 points and S&P 500 closed below 1,900 after falling into negative territory in the last half hour of trade. The Nasdaq Composite failed to hold slight gains and closed 0.44 percent lower.
----------------------
IF CHINA FALLS AGAIN OVERNIGHT WE COULD BE IN FOR A PROLONGED COLD SPELL

Damned SNP, Salmond has a lot to answer for. Except for the part that's Nicola's fault.

Oh we know the Sainted Eck and Beloved Nicola are beyond criticism....how's that $100 oil doing?

The Union seems to be a very bad deal.

Your compatriots didn't seem to think so 11 months ago.....

Scottish born residents voted to dissolve the UK.

But that wasn't the electorate!

So much for 'civic nationalism'!

Or are you more of a 'blood & soil' type?

Ah the "resort to fascism". You never avoid the chance to lie.

ReggieCide

Dair said:

rcs1000 said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

OldKingCole said:

Ms Vance, was this in Scotland. That the contrary example was could be relevant.

Couldn't it?

Despite the SHS having consistently better outcomes over the years than the NHS in E&W

Link?

You could always start with Life Expectancy.....

You really just can't stop lying.

You really just can't back up your claims......but its what we've come to expect from the Nats.....

you lie about a Swiss national receiving free NHS healthcare

Quote?

Where did I say that?

Or just more lies, from you?

We know you cult followers hate apostates.....

Eh? I said that. Nor was it a lie, it was my parent's friend; he's now gone back to Geneva. He did receive free healthcare - someone here has now told me there is every likelihood he is entitled anyway - I accepted that and didn't argue the point. Get a grip!

What you say sounds completely true. According to this: http://www.pah.nhs.uk/files/b) Entitlement EEA Visitors.pdf

EEA visitors can get treated (for free) for things that need to happen now (i.e. emergency treatments), but not for things that could wait until they get back to their host country.

They are NOT treated for free. Their national government/health service is billed directly by the NHS trust which carries out the service (the same thing happens within the UK).

Just because the individual does not get given a bill does not mean she is treated "for free". No-one who is not a UK resident gets treated for free by any part of the NHS.

The NHS, although entitled to reclaim those costs, simply cannot be arsed to do so. I don't know whether that's true up there.

rottenborough

NickPalmer said:

Today's polls show Sanders still ahead in NH but also Clinton doing better than in some recent polls, beating any Republican in Virginia. Trump ahead by miles but Kasich possibly breaking out of the pack in NH?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

NickPalmer said:

Today's polls show Sanders still ahead in NH but also Clinton doing better than in some recent polls, beating any Republican in Virginia. Trump ahead by miles but Kasich possibly breaking out of the pack in NH?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

Clinton can lose NH and still move on and clear up in larger states with more of her core audience IMHO. A loss or two early on though might tempt Biden into the game.

Pauly

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

MikeK said:

DOW, S&P CLOSE LOWER IN BIGGEST REVERSAL SINCE OCT. 08 (CNBC)

U.S. stocks closed lower, after a failed attempt to rally from the Dow's worst 3-day point decline in history, as investor confidence waned amid continued concerns about China and global growth.

The Dow Jones industrial average and the S&P 500 closed about 1.3 percent lower after rallying nearly 3 percent earlier, their biggest reversal to the downside since Oct. 29, 2008. The S&P 500 remained in correction territory after falling there on Monday. The index also posted its first six-day losing streak since July 2012.

"That crash (Monday) was so big and so long since we had one (investors) don't want a repeat of 2008 so they bail out," said Lance Roberts, general partner at STA Wealth Management.

The Dow fell 205 points and S&P 500 closed below 1,900 after falling into negative territory in the last half hour of trade. The Nasdaq Composite failed to hold slight gains and closed 0.44 percent lower.
----------------------
IF CHINA FALLS AGAIN OVERNIGHT WE COULD BE IN FOR A PROLONGED COLD SPELL

Damned SNP, Salmond has a lot to answer for. Except for the part that's Nicola's fault.

Oh we know the Sainted Eck and Beloved Nicola are beyond criticism....how's that $100 oil doing?

Oil is currently $44 a barrel. For Indpeendent Norway, which is very similar to Scotland EXCEPT being somewhat more reliant on oil (about 40% compared to 15% of GDP) only requires a $40 barrel for her finances to break even.

300 years of Union and 40 years of being plundered by Westminster have left Scotland apparently requiring $115 barrels to break even.

The Union seems to be a very bad deal.

I don't think your $40 dollar figure for Norway is right...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-12-12/-70-oil-is-norway-break-even-point-central-bank-chief-says-3-
Even if you take some of the most optimistic stories you're looking at about $50.

CarlottaVance

Dair said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@Dair And yet men overall in their lifetimes will still earn more than women. And that advantage that young women have btw, in terms of earnings disappears as soon as women are considered likely to have children. In my part-time jobs (since 16) I've only worked for male bosses.

Men born in the 1990s will earn far less than women. They will also face considerable societal pressure (mainly from older generations) to be the "breadwinner"

To clarify - you are suggesting that men born in the 90s face more societal pressure to be the principal breadwinner than those born in the 40s-60s?

If you don't mind me asking, in which decade were you born? (I'm from the '50s)

The_Apocalypse

DaemonBarber said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Sean_F said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Oh not this whole 'poor white men' thing again that some on the Right do. Corbyn's idea is barmy, but it's hardly targeted against white men specifically for a start. And @Sean_F I could easily say that the Right must think being of a BME background is a reprehensible and wonder why most BMEs don't vote for them - but it wouldn't be true, just like your statement isn't.

So when Julie Bindel heads an article on CIF "Why I Hate Men" how do you think one should interpret it?

Do you think a right wing journalist would head an article "Why I hate blacks?"

When did Julie Bindel represent everyone on the Left? And while a right-wing journalist may not have said the above, post-2011 riots David Starkey, a right-winger pretty much said borderline racist comments on Newsnight.

Since when did David Starkey represent all right wingers?

I never said he did, I was responding to Sean_F's comment: ''Do you think a right wing journalist would head an article "Why I hate blacks?"

HYUFD

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

MikeK said:

DOW, S&P CLOSE LOWER IN BIGGEST REVERSAL SINCE OCT. 08 (CNBC)

U.S. stocks closed lower, after a failed attempt to rally from the Dow's worst 3-day point decline in history, as investor confidence waned amid continued concerns about China and global growth.

The Dow Jones industrial average and the S&P 500 closed about 1.3 percent lower after rallying nearly 3 percent earlier, their biggest reversal to the downside since Oct. 29, 2008. The S&P 500 remained in correction territory after falling there on Monday. The index also posted its first six-day losing streak since July 2012.

"That crash (Monday) was so big and so long since we had one (investors) don't want a repeat of 2008 so they bail out," said Lance Roberts, general partner at STA Wealth Management.

The Dow fell 205 points and S&P 500 closed below 1,900 after falling into negative territory in the last half hour of trade. The Nasdaq Composite failed to hold slight gains and closed 0.44 percent lower.
----------------------
IF CHINA FALLS AGAIN OVERNIGHT WE COULD BE IN FOR A PROLONGED COLD SPELL

Damned SNP, Salmond has a lot to answer for. Except for the part that's Nicola's fault.

Oh we know the Sainted Eck and Beloved Nicola are beyond criticism....how's that $100 oil doing?

The Union seems to be a very bad deal.

Your compatriots didn't seem to think so 11 months ago.....

Scottish born residents voted to dissolve the UK.

You sound like Jacques Parizeau in Quebec in 1995, 'noting that 60% of French-speakers had voted yes, he stated that he would address French-speaking Québécois as nous ("we"), and that they had spoken clearly in favour of the "Yes".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_1995#Aftermath

In any case you are wrong, Scottish born referendum voters voted 51-49% No
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/e1yphtuis8/Final_Prediction_140918_Final_Website.pdf

CarlottaVance

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

MikeK said:

DOW, S&P CLOSE LOWER IN BIGGEST REVERSAL SINCE OCT. 08 (CNBC)

U.S. stocks closed lower, after a failed attempt to rally from the Dow's worst 3-day point decline in history, as investor confidence waned amid continued concerns about China and global growth.

The Dow Jones industrial average and the S&P 500 closed about 1.3 percent lower after rallying nearly 3 percent earlier, their biggest reversal to the downside since Oct. 29, 2008. The S&P 500 remained in correction territory after falling there on Monday. The index also posted its first six-day losing streak since July 2012.

"That crash (Monday) was so big and so long since we had one (investors) don't want a repeat of 2008 so they bail out," said Lance Roberts, general partner at STA Wealth Management.

The Dow fell 205 points and S&P 500 closed below 1,900 after falling into negative territory in the last half hour of trade. The Nasdaq Composite failed to hold slight gains and closed 0.44 percent lower.
----------------------
IF CHINA FALLS AGAIN OVERNIGHT WE COULD BE IN FOR A PROLONGED COLD SPELL

Damned SNP, Salmond has a lot to answer for. Except for the part that's Nicola's fault.

Oh we know the Sainted Eck and Beloved Nicola are beyond criticism....how's that $100 oil doing?

The Union seems to be a very bad deal.

Your compatriots didn't seem to think so 11 months ago.....

Scottish born residents voted to dissolve the UK.

But that wasn't the electorate!

So much for 'civic nationalism'!

Or are you more of a 'blood & soil' type?

Ah the "resort to fascism". You never avoid the chance to lie.

You were the one to raise the 'who was born where' point - not !!

JEO

The_Apocalypse said:

@Dair And yet men overall in their lifetimes will still earn more than women. And that advantage that young women have btw, in terms of earnings disappears as soon as women are considered likely to have children. In my part-time jobs (since 16) I've only worked for male bosses.

JEO said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Oh not this whole 'poor white men' thing again that some on the Right do. Corbyn's idea is barmy, but it's hardly targeted against white men specifically for a start. And @Sean_F I could easily say that the Right must think being of a BME background is a reprehensible and wonder why most BMEs don't vote for them - but it wouldn't be true, just like your statement isn't.

There is a clear difference in that the Right do not bring forward proposals that explicitly discriminate against black people or women. The Left regularly bring forward proposals that explicitly discriminate against white people or men. In the same way, if a Conservative MP came out and said something racist against all black people, they would be kicked out of the party, but if a Labour MP came out and said something racist against all white people, it is ignored.

Yet the Right felt the need to prove how inclusive they were of women and BMEs in the Cameron era. Again, I do not see how Corbyn's plans specifically discriminate against white men. There are other men who won't be able to go in those carriages that aren't white. The Labour party is mostly white, its supporters on the whole are mostly white, so the idea they actually are anti-white, and anti-male is weird. All their leaders have been white and male, and for that matter most of those within top positions in the party.

When the Right go out of their way to be inclusive of women and non-white people, that is a good thing, and does not imply some negative "they needed to prove" something. It shows the Conservatives are interested in reaching out to people. It's clear the Left does not do its best to reach out to voting groups that tend to vote against it, like men and white people.

I agree that this particular policy only discriminates against men. There are other policies being put forward, such as those by Sadiq Khan that are anti-white, however, which is what I was alluding to.

ReggieCide

Dair said:

CarlottaVance said:

Dair said:

MikeK said:

DOW, S&P CLOSE LOWER IN BIGGEST REVERSAL SINCE OCT. 08 (CNBC)

U.S. stocks closed lower, after a failed attempt to rally from the Dow's worst 3-day point decline in history, as investor confidence waned amid continued concerns about China and global growth.

The Dow Jones industrial average and the S&P 500 closed about 1.3 percent lower after rallying nearly 3 percent earlier, their biggest reversal to the downside since Oct. 29, 2008. The S&P 500 remained in correction territory after falling there on Monday. The index also posted its first six-day losing streak since July 2012.

"That crash (Monday) was so big and so long since we had one (investors) don't want a repeat of 2008 so they bail out," said Lance Roberts, general partner at STA Wealth Management.

The Dow fell 205 points and S&P 500 closed below 1,900 after falling into negative territory in the last half hour of trade. The Nasdaq Composite failed to hold slight gains and closed 0.44 percent lower.
----------------------
IF CHINA FALLS AGAIN OVERNIGHT WE COULD BE IN FOR A PROLONGED COLD SPELL

Damned SNP, Salmond has a lot to answer for. Except for the part that's Nicola's fault.

Oh we know the Sainted Eck and Beloved Nicola are beyond criticism....how's that $100 oil doing?

Oil is currently $44 a barrel. For Indpeendent Norway, which is very similar to Scotland EXCEPT being somewhat more reliant on oil (about 40% compared to 15% of GDP) only requires a $40 barrel for her finances to break even.

300 years of Union and 40 years of being plundered by Westminster have left Scotland apparently requiring $115 barrels to break even.

The Union seems to be a very bad deal.

I agree - FO!

The_Apocalypse

Dair said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@Dair And yet men overall in their lifetimes will still earn more than women. And that advantage that young women have btw, in terms of earnings disappears as soon as women are considered likely to have children. In my part-time jobs (since 16) I've only worked for male bosses.

Men born in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s will earn more in their lifetimes than women. Which is the bulk of the population but not reflective of the position TODAY.

Men born in the 1990s will earn far less than women. They will also face considerable societal pressure (mainly from older generations) to be the "breadwinner" which, rightly or more appropriately wrongly, will mean their families put them under considerable mental stress.

As @HYUFD said even now once women start having children they fall behind men in earnings. I don't see this changing anytime soon.

I agree that it is unfair that men face pressure to a breadwinner, but at the same time I've heard various criticisms of career women and the idea that a woman earning more than a man is 'emasculating'.