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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Don Brind: Why having an “electable” leader matters so much

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  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    RodCrosby said:

    Plato said:

    The Jewish Chronicle has found Mr Corbyn reluctant to answer... http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/142144/the-key-questions-jeremy-corbyn-must-answer

    ...If Mr Corbyn is not to be regarded from the day of his election as an enemy of Britain’s Jewish community, he has a number of questions which he must answer in full and immediately. The JC asked him earlier this week to respond. No response has been forthcoming.

    1. Did you donate, as alleged by its founder, to Deir Yassin Remembered (DYR), a group that publishes open antisemtism, run by Holocaust denier Paul Eisen — an organisation so extreme that even the Palestine Solidarity Campaign refuses to associate with it?

    2. Have you, as Mr Eisen claims, regularly attended DYR’s annual conference?

    3. Why have you accepted an invitation to appear at a conference on August 22 alongside Carlos Latuff, the notorious anti-Semitic cartoonist?

    4. Why did you write to the Church of England authorities to defend Rev Stephen Sizer, a vicar banned from social media because of his habit of posting anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, telling them that Rev Sizer was “under attack” because he had “dared to speak out over Zionism”?

    5. Why do you associate with Hamas and Hezbollah and refer to them as your “friends”?

    6. Why have you failed to condemn the anti-Semitic posters and banners that dominate the annual Al-Quds Day rally, sponsored by the Stop The War Coalition, which you chair?

    7. Why did you describe Raead Salah, a man convicted of the blood libel, as an ‘honoured citizen’?

    It is difficult not to see a pattern in Mr Corbyn’s associations, and his refusal at any point to answer the fears of the Jewish community raised by these associations.

    In a nation where, thank heavens, racism and extremism are now regarded as beyond the pale, it is little short of astonishing that a man who chooses to associate with racists and extremists is about to become leader of one of our two main parties and could conceivably become Prime Minister.
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Lots floating around this @J_Bloodworth Corbyn piece. Seems key issue is did he give money and did he go to rallies. http://t.co/dCCxurocJJ

    Why has anyone got to submit to such a self-serving, hysterical, factually-inaccurate, fallacious inquisition?

    No-one has to submit to questioning, but if you are seeking public office and you do not answer questions, you can hardly complain when you lose control of the narrative.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,315
    Danny565 said:
    She could have replaced the word 'rubbish' with 'balls'.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2015
    Comrade Corbyn has just announced he's not attending the cartoonist's event. 1 down, 6 to go.
    MTimT said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Plato said:

    The Jewish Chronicle has found Mr Corbyn reluctant to answer... http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/142144/the-key-questions-jeremy-corbyn-must-answer

    ...If Mr Corbyn is not to be regarded from the day of his election as an enemy of Britain’s Jewish community, he has a number of questions which he must answer in full and immediately. The JC asked him earlier this week to respond. No response has been forthcoming.

    1. Did you donate, as alleged by its founder, to Deir Yassin Remembered (DYR), a group that publishes open antisemtism, run by Holocaust denier Paul Eisen — an organisation so extreme that even the Palestine Solidarity Campaign refuses to associate with it?

    2. Have you, as Mr Eisen claims, regularly attended DYR’s annual conference?

    3. Why have you accepted an invitation to appear at a conference on August 22 alongside Carlos Latuff, the notorious anti-Semitic cartoonist?

    4. Why did you write to the Church of England authorities to defend Rev Stephen Sizer, a vicar banned from social media because of his habit of posting anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, telling them that Rev Sizer was “under attack” because he had “dared to speak out over Zionism”?

    5. Why do you associate with Hamas and Hezbollah and refer to them as your “friends”?

    6. Why have you failed to condemn the anti-Semitic posters and banners that dominate the annual Al-Quds Day rally, sponsored by the Stop The War Coalition, which you chair?

    7. Why did you describe Raead Salah, a man convicted of the blood libel, as an ‘honoured citizen’?

    It is difficult not to see a pattern in Mr Corbyn’s associations, and his refusal at any point to answer the fears of the Jewish community raised by these associations.

    In a nation where, thank heavens, racism and extremism are now regarded as beyond the pale, it is little short of astonishing that a man who chooses to associate with racists and extremists is about to become leader of one of our two main parties and could conceivably become Prime Minister.
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Lots floating around this @J_Bloodworth Corbyn piece. Seems key issue is did he give money and did he go to rallies. http://t.co/dCCxurocJJ

    Why has anyone got to submit to such a self-serving, hysterical, factually-inaccurate, fallacious inquisition?
    No-one has to submit to questioning, but if you are seeking public office and you do not answer questions, you can hardly complain when you lose control of the narrative.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983
    edited August 2015
    Re the JC

    A newspaper representing the interests of a country which is holding 2,000,0000 people under brutal occupation doesn't merit answers from Corbyn or anyone else seeking to have UN resolutions enacted.

    I wrote to them twice asking for an explanation of their defence firstly of Robert Maxwell and secondly Lady Porter after she escaped to Israel to avoid prosecution. On both occasions the answers I received were none. I hope Corbyn continues to ignore them

    It is a rag that is full of bile prejudice and partiality
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2015

    On topic, difficult to disagree with anything Don's written. However, it's not just the Labour membership / supporters to blame. None of the candidates looks particularly electable. In such circumstances you can understand the membership going for the one that at least has some passion.

    That's mostly accurate in my case, but since yesterday it's also compounded by the actions of the opposing to Corbyn teams wanting to cancel the leadership election because they are losing it.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834

    Mr. Llama, hasn't Mr. Foxinsox been here for ages?

    Yes, but I don't think he was around during certain times.

    Anyway, what's this you mentioned about Corbyn wanting to nationalise cats? Does that mean HMG will pay for the creatures' food. If so I think he may be onto something. I had to go shopping this afternoon as Herself was busy but she left me a list. On that list was go to Waitrose for: prawns, salmon flakes and a roast chicken. All it turns out for the cat.
    The idea of nationalising cats is ludicrous. It implies that cats can be owned and controlled.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Roger said:

    Re the JC

    A newspaper ...

    that is full of bile prejudice and partiality

    Shocking, should be banned. No other newspaper in the UK is like that

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,976
    Mr. Herdson, I think the Romans considered the cat the freest of the animals [them or the Egyptians].
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Is the Guardian endorsement of Snowflake the final death knell for her campaign?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2015
    You're just not ambitious enough in your thinking.

    This is Corbyn's Claws Four moment, surely?

    Mr. Llama, hasn't Mr. Foxinsox been here for ages?

    Yes, but I don't think he was around during certain times.

    Anyway, what's this you mentioned about Corbyn wanting to nationalise cats? Does that mean HMG will pay for the creatures' food. If so I think he may be onto something. I had to go shopping this afternoon as Herself was busy but she left me a list. On that list was go to Waitrose for: prawns, salmon flakes and a roast chicken. All it turns out for the cat.
    The idea of nationalising cats is ludicrous. It implies that cats can be owned and controlled.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Speedy said:

    MTimT said:

    Don't know if anyone else has commented on this, but the BBC is up to its old tricks on its news website. On the UK Politics page, apparently Corbyn has plans for the UK, while Burnham and Cooper have visions, and Kendall simply has what she would do.

    I don't know if it is just me, but plans are considered and detailed, visions are big picture and nothing more, and 'what one would do" is how you would react if your car ran out of petrol on a busy road.

    Looks like al Beeb is backing Corbyn to me.

    It won't make a difference if the BBC is backing Corbyn or not, when clearly the other 3 are so rubbish, and in the case of Cooper her own poster agrees with me.
    Agreed, Mr Speedy. But I still find the loaded choice of words extraordinary. Not even a semblance or pretence of impartiality.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    And that photo? She looks like she has just been told she came 4th, with 19 votes....

    She has a frying pan behind her back.

    That's her
    "So......Ed ......what time of the morning do you call this to come back from the lock in at the Leftie Arms??"

    Type of look.......
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,976
    Miss Plato, very good :)

    Mr. P, not sure Rubbish Cooper is helping herself either.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    MTimT said:

    Speedy said:

    MTimT said:

    Don't know if anyone else has commented on this, but the BBC is up to its old tricks on its news website. On the UK Politics page, apparently Corbyn has plans for the UK, while Burnham and Cooper have visions, and Kendall simply has what she would do.

    I don't know if it is just me, but plans are considered and detailed, visions are big picture and nothing more, and 'what one would do" is how you would react if your car ran out of petrol on a busy road.

    Looks like al Beeb is backing Corbyn to me.

    It won't make a difference if the BBC is backing Corbyn or not, when clearly the other 3 are so rubbish, and in the case of Cooper her own poster agrees with me.
    Agreed, Mr Speedy. But I still find the loaded choice of words extraordinary. Not even a semblance or pretence of impartiality.
    Oh come on american TV is much worse on those categories, Fox News is the worst on those things, whist talking about american TV I found another Trump gem, he can use it in Iowa:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiZqFGLAeAc
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited August 2015
    Plato, just seen a Dame Barbara Hakin Deputy Chief Executive of NHS England on tv for first time. I was underwhelmed. I hope she is a more able leader than she came across?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Llama, hasn't Mr. Foxinsox been here for ages?

    Yes, but I don't think he was around during certain times.

    Anyway, what's this you mentioned about Corbyn wanting to nationalise cats? Does that mean HMG will pay for the creatures' food. If so I think he may be onto something. I had to go shopping this afternoon as Herself was busy but she left me a list. On that list was go to Waitrose for: prawns, salmon flakes and a roast chicken. All it turns out for the cat.
    The idea of nationalising cats is ludicrous. It implies that cats can be owned and controlled.
    If someone is mad enough to believe that if the commanding heights of the economy were owned and controlled by HMG life would be better for all, the idea of controlling cats would be child's play.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Apart from the glaring mistake - could anyone look more bored in a photo than Ms Cooper?
    Plato said:
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    Apart from the glaring mistake - could anyone look more bored in a photo than Ms Cooper?

    Yes, anyone forced to listen to her.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited August 2015
    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited August 2015
    Roger said:

    Re the JC

    A newspaper representing the interests of a country which is holding 2,000,0000 people under brutal occupation doesn't merit answers from Corbyn or anyone else seeking to have UN resolutions enacted.

    I wrote to them twice asking for an explanation of their defence firstly of Robert Maxwell and secondly Lady Porter after she escaped to Israel to avoid prosecution. On both occasions the answers I received were none. I hope Corbyn continues to ignore them

    It is a rag that is full of bile prejudice and partiality

    Still, they're not up for phone hacking.

    Did you write in green ink?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,976
    edited August 2015
    Cooper's speech was appalling. And not just because she used the word 'dismantlement'.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WbDeq8GqEE

    Someone might also like to point out that women also use planes and trains (and pilot/drive them), and that men are, just sometimes, part of families.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Roger said:

    Re the JC

    A newspaper representing the interests of a country which is holding 2,000,0000 people under brutal occupation doesn't merit answers from Corbyn or anyone else seeking to have UN resolutions enacted.

    I wrote to them twice asking for an explanation of their defence firstly of Robert Maxwell and secondly Lady Porter after she escaped to Israel to avoid prosecution. On both occasions the answers I received were none. I hope Corbyn continues to ignore them

    It is a rag that is full of bile prejudice and partiality

    I suppose Egypt could simply open up the border they have with them and let all these desperate souls to come across? Alternatively they could just keep the barbed wire, watch towers and machine guns and continue to blow up the tunnels under the fence?

    Tough decision really.......
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Apart from the glaring mistake - could anyone look more bored in a photo than Ms Cooper?

    Yes, anyone forced to listen to her.
    Tou·ché Mr Nabavi. :lol:
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Jeremy Corbyn has found support with the American Pigeon Museum:

    https://twitter.com/ThePigeonMuseum/status/631531238726078464
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,979

    Mr. Herdson, I think the Romans considered the cat the freest of the animals [them or the Egyptians].

    Not quite so free after the Egyptians stuck prodigious numbers of them into jars to keep the Pharaohs company in the afterlife....
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,955
    edited August 2015
    Speedy said:

    MTimT said:

    Speedy said:

    MTimT said:

    Don't know if anyone else has commented on this, but the BBC is up to its old tricks on its news website. On the UK Politics page, apparently Corbyn has plans for the UK, while Burnham and Cooper have visions, and Kendall simply has what she would do.

    I don't know if it is just me, but plans are considered and detailed, visions are big picture and nothing more, and 'what one would do" is how you would react if your car ran out of petrol on a busy road.

    Looks like al Beeb is backing Corbyn to me.

    It won't make a difference if the BBC is backing Corbyn or not, when clearly the other 3 are so rubbish, and in the case of Cooper her own poster agrees with me.
    Agreed, Mr Speedy. But I still find the loaded choice of words extraordinary. Not even a semblance or pretence of impartiality.
    Oh come on american TV is much worse on those categories, Fox News is the worst on those things, whist talking about american TV I found another Trump gem, he can use it in Iowa:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiZqFGLAeAc
    Red herring.

    Yankee-Doodle goggle vision is not paid for out of all our pockets under threat of legal penalty, nor does it have a duty to be balanced...

    Not for that matter does it have a 40%+ market share across the board.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    Speedy said:

    Disraeli said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:


    ydoethur said:
    » show previous quotes
    '
    Justin, whatever the manifold and egregious faults of Tony Blair and George W. Bush, they were not mass killers bent on world domination and the genocide of racial groups they didn't approve of. It was perfectly possible to disagree flatly with their ideas and behaviour - I did - and it is possible to see them as hopelessly misguided and very unwise, but they are not actually evil to the extent that would justify taking up arms against them or working to sabotage or imperil our own armed forces.

    .I agree with most of that - but would not wish to see aggression by any country prevail. To condemn other countries for aggression and then proceed to turn a blind eye and say nothing when my own country does the same thing is nothing less than pure humbug and hypocrisy. For that reason, I wished to see the invading forces defeated in 2003. I did not wish UK forces any direct harm but any casualties I blame entirely on those who sent them there -a sentiment clearly shared by many relatives of the victims. At the end of the day, those being attacked had every right to defend themselves

    Where were you when Saddam was bombing and gassing his own country's citizens? Where were you when he was misusing specific UN aid and allowing his own citizen's children to starve and die instead.
    In short where were you when Saddam was breaking the terms of the ceasefire he signed after the Gulf War - where of course he had invaded and occupied Kuwait.
    I don't know where you were - on holiday in Corbynland I suppose - but I despise you for wanting to see UK soldiers defeated.
    Ok - and had you been a German in the early 1940s doubtless you would have despised any fellow German wishing to see the Wehrmacht defeated in the interests of humanity. Some of us do not make a moral distinction between people on the basis of nationality.
    Just catching up with the thread, so sorry for the late comment, but I can't let that pass.

    I was (and remain) against the Iraq war, but you cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, make an equal comparison between UK forces invading Iraq and the Wehrmacht in World War 2.
    Well one can make it, but only about Case Blue, which was about taking the oil fields:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_Blue

    So if you think that the objective of invading Iraq was all about the oil, then you can make that assumption.
    No, even then you can't. Germany in WWII set out not simply to gain control of resources but to conquer and control an empire in eastern Europe, enslaving and eradicating whole peoples along the way. That is way beyond even the most cynical interpretation of the motives behind the Iraq War.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Roger said:

    Re the JC

    A newspaper representing the interests of a country which is holding 2,000,0000 people under brutal occupation doesn't merit answers from Corbyn or anyone else seeking to have UN resolutions enacted.

    I wrote to them twice asking for an explanation of their defence firstly of Robert Maxwell and secondly Lady Porter after she escaped to Israel to avoid prosecution. On both occasions the answers I received were none. I hope Corbyn continues to ignore them

    It is a rag that is full of bile prejudice and partiality

    Oh, Roger, you are trying one of the oldest tricks in the book. :wink:
    i.e. Don't attack the point being made - attack the person or organisation making it.

    If the JC insisted that 1+1 = 2, would you insist that it was wrong? No, of course not. (1)

    The questions posed by the JC are perfectly valid, regardless of what you think of the paper itself.


    (1) Although you were a supporter of Brown as Chancellor, IIRC! :smile:
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Mr. Llama, hasn't Mr. Foxinsox been here for ages?

    Yes, but I don't think he was around during certain times.

    Anyway, what's this you mentioned about Corbyn wanting to nationalise cats? Does that mean HMG will pay for the creatures' food. If so I think he may be onto something. I had to go shopping this afternoon as Herself was busy but she left me a list. On that list was go to Waitrose for: prawns, salmon flakes and a roast chicken. All it turns out for the cat.
    The idea of nationalising cats is ludicrous. It implies that cats can be owned and controlled.
    If someone is mad enough to believe that if the commanding heights of the economy were owned and controlled by HMG life would be better for all, the idea of controlling cats would be child's play.
    Personally I have found small terriers best for controlling cats. My border has established a working relationship with my own cat, and has an enthusiastic attitude to controlling other cat incursions!
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Plato said:

    You're just not ambitious enough in your thinking.

    This is Corbyn's Claws Four moment, surely?

    :smiley:
    Excellent! *applause*
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,979

    Mr. Llama, hasn't Mr. Foxinsox been here for ages?

    Yes, but I don't think he was around during certain times.

    Anyway, what's this you mentioned about Corbyn wanting to nationalise cats? Does that mean HMG will pay for the creatures' food. If so I think he may be onto something. I had to go shopping this afternoon as Herself was busy but she left me a list. On that list was go to Waitrose for: prawns, salmon flakes and a roast chicken. All it turns out for the cat.
    The idea of nationalising cats is ludicrous. It implies that cats can be owned and controlled.
    If someone is mad enough to believe that if the commanding heights of the economy were owned and controlled by HMG life would be better for all, the idea of controlling cats would be child's play.
    Personally I have found small terriers best for controlling cats. My border has established a working relationship with my own cat, and has an enthusiastic attitude to controlling other cat incursions!
    They will also keep out the squirrels, gratis.....
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    Speedy said:

    On topic, difficult to disagree with anything Don's written. However, it's not just the Labour membership / supporters to blame. None of the candidates looks particularly electable. In such circumstances you can understand the membership going for the one that at least has some passion.

    That's mostly accurate in my case, but since yesterday it's also compounded by the actions of the opposing to Corbyn teams wanting to cancel the leadership election because they are losing it.
    It has come to something when the 'jumping the shark' moment in the campaign was the three spadocrats effectively declaring that the party was theirs, not the members (or, alternatively, that it wa fine for Corbyn to be on the ballot, just so long as no-one voted for him).
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Speedy said:

    MTimT said:

    Speedy said:

    MTimT said:

    Don't know if anyone else has commented on this, but the BBC is up to its old tricks on its news website. On the UK Politics page, apparently Corbyn has plans for the UK, while Burnham and Cooper have visions, and Kendall simply has what she would do.

    I don't know if it is just me, but plans are considered and detailed, visions are big picture and nothing more, and 'what one would do" is how you would react if your car ran out of petrol on a busy road.

    Looks like al Beeb is backing Corbyn to me.

    It won't make a difference if the BBC is backing Corbyn or not, when clearly the other 3 are so rubbish, and in the case of Cooper her own poster agrees with me.
    Agreed, Mr Speedy. But I still find the loaded choice of words extraordinary. Not even a semblance or pretence of impartiality.
    Oh come on american TV is much worse on those categories, Fox News is the worst on those things, whist talking about american TV I found another Trump gem, he can use it in Iowa:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiZqFGLAeAc
    As has been pointed out, US TV has no obligation to be impartial, whereas the Beeb does. As for Fox News, they could hardly wear their prejudices more openly on their sleeves. As has been noted more than once with a wry smile in place, it's not so much that Fox works for the GOP, but that the GOP works for Fox.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Herdson, I think the Romans considered the cat the freest of the animals [them or the Egyptians].

    Not quite so free after the Egyptians stuck prodigious numbers of them into jars to keep the Pharaohs company in the afterlife....
    You maybe a little mixed your Egyptology there, Mr. Mark. Certainly the Egyptians did mummify dead cats, as they did dead people (a process that involved sticking organs into jars) and for the same reason - so that they can have a jolly time in the afterlife.

    Allegedly during a certain era some pharaohs and other assorted bigwigs were buried in company with live slaves/priests and other minor hangers on. Perhaps cats were included in that process as well. But even if they were, it only shows that cats were held to be at the same level as essential companions, rather than the gods that were undoubtedly held to be at other times.

    Of course one of the great questions about cats and Egypt is that in a land which is largely made up of sand where the moggies go for a crap and to vomit? Areas of modern day Texas have I believe the same problem.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited August 2015

    Speedy said:

    On topic, difficult to disagree with anything Don's written. However, it's not just the Labour membership / supporters to blame. None of the candidates looks particularly electable. In such circumstances you can understand the membership going for the one that at least has some passion.

    That's mostly accurate in my case, but since yesterday it's also compounded by the actions of the opposing to Corbyn teams wanting to cancel the leadership election because they are losing it.
    It has come to something when the 'jumping the shark' moment in the campaign was the three spadocrats effectively declaring that the party was theirs, not the members (or, alternatively, that it wa fine for Corbyn to be on the ballot, just so long as no-one voted for him).
    The party comes first..... No it doesn't the country comes first.

    That's about the only memorable thing I can remember from the entire hustings.

    The one who actually does get it though won't get it because she does get it.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    Plato said:

    You're just not ambitious enough in your thinking.

    This is Corbyn's Claws Four moment, surely?

    Mr. Llama, hasn't Mr. Foxinsox been here for ages?

    Yes, but I don't think he was around during certain times.

    Anyway, what's this you mentioned about Corbyn wanting to nationalise cats? Does that mean HMG will pay for the creatures' food. If so I think he may be onto something. I had to go shopping this afternoon as Herself was busy but she left me a list. On that list was go to Waitrose for: prawns, salmon flakes and a roast chicken. All it turns out for the cat.
    The idea of nationalising cats is ludicrous. It implies that cats can be owned and controlled.
    Excellent!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    Can't agree with general sentiment here - I thought Cooper was good. First time she has been mind. Way, way too late probably, but I remain optimistic and calm. She's still available at 9s.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983
    It seems clear the winner will be Cooper or Corbyn. Pity we can't have a dream ticket. Corbyn for heart Cooper for head. Maybe if JC would make Cooper shadow chancellor that might do it. I have to say I've never really noticed him before but I'm liking what I see.

    I have a feeling that the zeitgeist might just be right for someone like him at the moment. The Tories nastiness makes people feel so impotent
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,955
    On Greens and Corbyn:

    " Talking up the chances of a potential left-wing Labour leader could hurt the Greens in (at least) the immediate term. According to sources, we’ve lost around 400 members this month alone – no doubt many of whom are going off to vote for Corbyn."
    http://bright-green.org/2015/08/12/is-it-time-for-the-greens-to-get-clear-about-corbyn/

    The comment is from a Greenie who works at the Electoral Reform Society.
    http://electoral-reform.org.uk/meet-our-staff
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,979
    edited August 2015

    Mr. Herdson, I think the Romans considered the cat the freest of the animals [them or the Egyptians].

    Not quite so free after the Egyptians stuck prodigious numbers of them into jars to keep the Pharaohs company in the afterlife....
    You maybe a little mixed your Egyptology there, Mr. Mark. Certainly the Egyptians did mummify dead cats, as they did dead people (a process that involved sticking organs into jars) and for the same reason - so that they can have a jolly time in the afterlife.

    Allegedly during a certain era some pharaohs and other assorted bigwigs were buried in company with live slaves/priests and other minor hangers on. Perhaps cats were included in that process as well. But even if they were, it only shows that cats were held to be at the same level as essential companions, rather than the gods that were undoubtedly held to be at other times.

    Of course one of the great questions about cats and Egypt is that in a land which is largely made up of sand where the moggies go for a crap and to vomit? Areas of modern day Texas have I believe the same problem.
    BTW, did you see that piece in the Times the other day - where some expert reckons the tomb of Nefertiti is hidden in a secret chamber behind one of the walls of Tutankhamen's. Given his was intact, hers would be too...and her treasures would make his look like they had come from Argos!
  • RE The Tories winning on policy - the Tories hardly mentioned policy throughout the election. In fact both parties were both guilty of giving extraordinarily little detail about what exactly they'd do in power. It was issues, and more how parties' attitudes on certain issues (immigration, welfare, the economy) and the economy which decided the electorate.
  • Plato said:
    That is so bad - the Y turned into a tick for Yvette? Ugh. We certainly won't be entering a Golden Age of Graphic Design under Mrs. Balls.

    I suppose we should be grateful she didn't replace the "e"s in her name with Smilies.
    Rubbish. Agreed.
    This must be the work of a saboteur.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    As far as I can tell Corbyn barley mentions his competitors and certainly isn't wasting much of his time responding to Labour Party "grandees" who are carpet bombing the MSM and Twitter with their attacks. It will be interesting to see upcoming polls on Corbyn's electability now that he is the clear frontrunner.

    I think on the face of it rather bizarrely Corbyn seems to have established an SNP like anti-establishment movement from within the Labour party - without anyone noticing. Should Corbyn win how many Labour MPs will seek to defect or set up a new party? I think they are showing themselves to be a spineless bunch - very few would have the guts to go.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The ancient Egyptians would have loved the internet.
  • Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
  • antifrank said:

    The ancient Egyptians would have loved the internet.

    Lots of cat videos...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983
    Callum

    "I think on the face of it rather bizarrely Corbyn seems to have established an SNP like anti-establishment movement from within the Labour party - without anyone noticing.

    I think you're spot on. This reminds me in almost every way the rise of the SNP. You can just sense the feeling among Labour supporters 'why not? we've nothing to lose but our clones'.

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited August 2015

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 16m16 minutes ago
    The Guardian has endorsed Yvette Cooper, and its comment moderators should be worried
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Roger said:

    The Tories nastiness makes people feel so impotent

    Nah! It only makes the wimps feel impotent.

    The ones with the guts just get more resolved to do something about it. :wink:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137

    Plato said:
    That is so bad - the Y turned into a tick for Yvette? Ugh. We certainly won't be entering a Golden Age of Graphic Design under Mrs. Balls.

    I suppose we should be grateful she didn't replace the "e"s in her name with Smilies.
    Rubbish. Agreed.
    This must be the work of a saboteur.
    I like the Y tick - maybe I need help?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    It's a #JeSuisGuardian moment :wink:
    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 16m16 minutes ago
    The Guardian has endorsed Yvette Cooper, and its comment moderators should be worried
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    antifrank said:

    The ancient Egyptians would have loved the internet.

    Lots of cat videos...
    You do realise the internet is only possible because a man was sacked because he stopped to recuse a drowning kitten?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
    Aneurin Bevan was a Tory.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    RodCrosby said:
    The madness continues...
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    Roger said:

    Callum

    "I think on the face of it rather bizarrely Corbyn seems to have established an SNP like anti-establishment movement from within the Labour party - without anyone noticing.

    I think you're spot on. This reminds me in almost every way the rise of the SNP. You can just sense the feeling among Labour supporters 'why not? we've nothing to lose but our clones'.

    And the 2020 election. And perhaps the 2025 one too.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    China explosion: the second blast was apparently equivalent to the detonation of 21 tons of TNT.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-33901206

    And the first was 3 tons.

    I did a quick calculation earlier today and figured yesterday's blast was 0.2% of the Hiroshima bomb. Or, to put it another way, 500 of those explosions yesterday = one small nuke.

    Given how scary and gigormous the blast was yesterday, generating a small mushroom cloud and 1,000 casualties, that just goes to show how devestating and terrifying nuclear bombs are.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    RodCrosby said:
    "Led by Unite, four unions have helped him hire out huge halls and pay for cross-country travel as he continues attracting thousand-strong crowds."

    Is there a cap on campaign expenditure written into the leadership rules?
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Charles said:

    antifrank said:

    The ancient Egyptians would have loved the internet.

    Lots of cat videos...
    You do realise the internet is only possible because a man was sacked because he stopped to recuse a drowning kitten?
    Ha! ......So that's why all Internet cabling is described under the CAT standards. Who knew?
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited August 2015
    Roger said:

    Callum
    ...I think you're spot on. This reminds me in almost every way the rise of the SNP. You can just sense the feeling among Labour supporters 'why not? we've nothing to lose but our clones'.

    'why not? we've nothing to lose but our elections'
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    Yvette's speech might be fine. I honestly can't tell, her delivery strikes of boredom and monotone.

    Jezza has a fiery passion.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Growing speculation re Gordon Brown speech Edinburgh on Sunday. If to deliver knock-out to Corbyn he must act quickly. Voting starts tmrw.

    If there is any expectation that Corbyn might inprove SLABs image with the Scottish voting public, it seems that Brown is out to crush this with his full weight.

    Ridiculously risible choice of venue.
    Indeed. Since 2015 election Scotland has voted itself a sideshow in British politics. Allowing EV4EL and likely cementing 15 years of Tory rule.

    As well as losing a referendum in 2014.

    Pretty bad couple of years for progressive politics in Scotland.

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Herdson, I think the Romans considered the cat the freest of the animals [them or the Egyptians].

    Not quite so free after the Egyptians stuck prodigious numbers of them into jars to keep the Pharaohs company in the afterlife....
    You maybe a little mixed your Egyptology there, Mr. Mark. Certainly the Egyptians did mummify dead cats, as they did dead people (a process that involved sticking organs into jars) and for the same reason - so that they can have a jolly time in the afterlife.

    Allegedly during a certain era some pharaohs and other assorted bigwigs were buried in company with live slaves/priests and other minor hangers on. Perhaps cats were included in that process as well. But even if they were, it only shows that cats were held to be at the same level as essential companions, rather than the gods that were undoubtedly held to be at other times.

    Of course one of the great questions about cats and Egypt is that in a land which is largely made up of sand where the moggies go for a crap and to vomit? Areas of modern day Texas have I believe the same problem.
    BTW, did you see that piece in the Times the other day - where some expert reckons the tomb of Nefertiti is hidden in a secret chamber behind one of the walls of Tutankhamen's. Given his was intact, hers would be too...and her treasures would make his look like they had come from Argos!
    I did indeed, Mr. Mark and if such a tomb were found I am sure the contents would be spectacular. However, I remain very sceptical. She was the wife of Tut's dad fro a start and possibly therefore his mother. She was also a key part in the religious movement that Tut's dad introduced and which Tut subsequently disavowed. I don't see that she would have been buried behind the boy whatever his wishes the priests of the "counter reformation" would surely have never allowed it. Then there is the matter of the tomb of the woman sort of identified as Nefertiti that has already been discovered.

    Someone has come up with a theory. It might be correct but I wouldn't put any money on it.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    China explosion: the second blast was apparently equivalent to the detonation of 21 tons of TNT.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-33901206

    And the first was 3 tons.

    I did a quick calculation earlier today and figured yesterday's blast was 0.2% of the Hiroshima bomb. Or, to put it another way, 500 of those explosions yesterday = one small nuke.

    Given how scary and gigormous the blast was yesterday, generating a small mushroom cloud and 1,000 casualties, that just goes to show how devestating and terrifying nuclear bombs are.
    MAD

    If there was ever ever ever a better acronym used as a label I would like to see it. it has though bizarrely kept the peace or alternatively ......everyone just fights the same war but in other peoples countries.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,780
    Plato said:

    It's a #JeSuisGuardian moment :wink:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 16m16 minutes ago
    The Guardian has endorsed Yvette Cooper, and its comment moderators should be worried
    Look at the comments on the Cif piece about corbyns antisemitic friends... Utter failure to engage with reality
  • Plato said:
    That is so bad - the Y turned into a tick for Yvette? Ugh. We certainly won't be entering a Golden Age of Graphic Design under Mrs. Balls.

    I suppose we should be grateful she didn't replace the "e"s in her name with Smilies.
    Rubbish. Agreed.
    This must be the work of a saboteur.
    I like the Y tick - maybe I need help?
    ✅ es ✅ ou do.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,170
    Mortimer said:

    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Growing speculation re Gordon Brown speech Edinburgh on Sunday. If to deliver knock-out to Corbyn he must act quickly. Voting starts tmrw.

    If there is any expectation that Corbyn might inprove SLABs image with the Scottish voting public, it seems that Brown is out to crush this with his full weight.

    Ridiculously risible choice of venue.
    Indeed. Since 2015 election Scotland has voted itself a sideshow in British politics. Allowing EV4EL and likely cementing 15 years of Tory rule.

    As well as losing a referendum in 2014.

    Pretty bad couple of years for progressive politics in Scotland.

    Ah, 'Scotland' has lost a referendum has it?

    An interesting interpretation.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Jeremy Corbyn or Mrs Balls?

    What a choice.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Channel 4 News ‏@Channel4News 2 mins2 minutes ago

    Unite leader Len McCluskey has written to all his 104,000 affiliated members urging them to vote for Jeremy Corbyn reports @MichaelLCrick


  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Hello folks!

    Will be getting my ballot papers early next week I guess.

    To be honest, only one candidate that is anywhere near inspiring....rest dull as dishwater!
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Plato said:

    It's a #JeSuisGuardian moment :wink:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 16m16 minutes ago
    The Guardian has endorsed Yvette Cooper, and its comment moderators should be worried
    Look at the comments on the Cif piece about corbyns antisemitic friends... Utter failure to engage with reality
    It is quite amusing that there seems to be a genuine belief that the vitriol being poured on Corbyn's head from within the Labour Party and from the likes of the Guardian is "proof that the Tories are scared of him" ;) Because anyone who criticises him is, de facto, a Tory!

  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    alex. said:

    Plato said:

    It's a #JeSuisGuardian moment :wink:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 16m16 minutes ago
    The Guardian has endorsed Yvette Cooper, and its comment moderators should be worried
    Look at the comments on the Cif piece about corbyns antisemitic friends... Utter failure to engage with reality
    It is quite amusing that there seems to be a genuine belief that the vitriol being poured on Corbyn's head from within the Labour Party and from the likes of the Guardian is "proof that the Tories are scared of him" ;) Because anyone who criticises him is, de facto, a Tory!

    It's a Syriza style mass delusion. There's no rational reasoning any more.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Had a letter to my MP begging me to vote for anyone but Jezza.

    Also informing me that were I really sensible I would vote Kendall.

    I sent a short reply.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    welshowl said:

    alex. said:

    Plato said:

    It's a #JeSuisGuardian moment :wink:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 16m16 minutes ago
    The Guardian has endorsed Yvette Cooper, and its comment moderators should be worried
    Look at the comments on the Cif piece about corbyns antisemitic friends... Utter failure to engage with reality
    It is quite amusing that there seems to be a genuine belief that the vitriol being poured on Corbyn's head from within the Labour Party and from the likes of the Guardian is "proof that the Tories are scared of him" ;) Because anyone who criticises him is, de facto, a Tory!

    It's a Syriza style mass delusion. There's no rational reasoning any more.
    Did Syriza beat an unpopular pro Austerity Govt or was it roundly rejected by the electorate?
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    edited August 2015
    This 'election' and the way it has operated proves that the establishment in the Labour party genuinely didn't understand the system that they had set up. There was a lot of bewilderment that for the last month or so, the only person who appears to have been campaigning was Corbyn, with the others all having gone on holiday. I think that is because the others seemed to be under the impression that the contest only really started once the date for registering for a vote was over, at which point the campaign would start to convert an undecided electorate.

    Of course the reality was/is that the vast majority of the electorate has already made up its mind - the only reason they have self-chosen to be part of the electorate is to vote for Corbyn. There is no persuading to be done. This election had nothing really to do with persuading the electorate like a normal election. The key to the election was signing up supporters to be part of the electorate in the first place - which Corbyn's team obviously realised very early on. Even in the last couple of weeks when the scale of Corbyn's lead has become apparent, his opponents have continued to appeal to "the Labour Party" to see sense. When they should have been desperately urging anti-Corbynites to register.

    It is, if you like, the Dewey vs Truman election where Dewey wins because the election was decided by the Readers Digest!
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Diane for London ‏@DianeforLondon 2 mins2 minutes ago

    . @HackneyAbbott happy to bet £20 on @jeremycorbyn @Corbyn4Leader to be prime minister in 2020! #lbcdebate #JezWeCan

    Bless.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2015
    Well I heard Cooper's speech, deeply disappointed.
    Her whole speech was: "Vote for me because I'm a woman" "I'm radical because I'm not a man".
    If her whole pitch is don't vote Corbyn because he's a man and men can't be radical, I'm sorry even feminism has it's limits, if Cooper can say she is a radical because she is a woman then so can Liz Kendall.

    Cooper is the base model of identity politics.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,780
    Wow...look at what Kens just been saying... Apparently labours now more popular than anytime over the last 40 years....
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Pulpstar said:

    Yvette's speech might be fine. I honestly can't tell, her delivery strikes of boredom and monotone.

    Jezza has a fiery passion.

    Yvette Cooper has the charisma of a damp rag.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Diane for London ‏@DianeforLondon 2 mins2 minutes ago

    . @HackneyAbbott happy to bet £20 on @jeremycorbyn @Corbyn4Leader to be prime minister in 2020! #lbcdebate #JezWeCan

    Bless.

    I would have preferred it if she gave that money to charity instead of gambling it.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Wow...look at what Kens just been saying... Apparently labours now more popular than anytime over the last 40 years....

    You would have thought that they would have taken more than a couple of months before forgetting about the mass delusion caused by like minded talking to like minded before the General Election...

    Peston's blog on Corbynomics was quite interesting - maybe the Corbynites dominated the later comments (didn't get that far) but the early comments were just incredulous that his proposals were seriously being put forward. The contrast with the Guardian BTL was striking.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Moses_ said:

    China explosion: the second blast was apparently equivalent to the detonation of 21 tons of TNT.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-33901206

    And the first was 3 tons.

    I did a quick calculation earlier today and figured yesterday's blast was 0.2% of the Hiroshima bomb. Or, to put it another way, 500 of those explosions yesterday = one small nuke.

    Given how scary and gigormous the blast was yesterday, generating a small mushroom cloud and 1,000 casualties, that just goes to show how devestating and terrifying nuclear bombs are.
    MAD

    If there was ever ever ever a better acronym used as a label I would like to see it. it has though bizarrely kept the peace or alternatively ......everyone just fights the same war but in other peoples countries.
    Someone I know pointed out that the third world war happened, it was just a Third World war.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    MP_SE said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Yvette's speech might be fine. I honestly can't tell, her delivery strikes of boredom and monotone.

    Jezza has a fiery passion.

    Yvette Cooper has the charisma of a damp rag.
    If asked would she would prefer“tea or coffee”. The suspicion is, she might reply “it is a false choice”, or perhaps ask for a bit of both.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    welshowl said:

    alex. said:

    Plato said:

    It's a #JeSuisGuardian moment :wink:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 16m16 minutes ago
    The Guardian has endorsed Yvette Cooper, and its comment moderators should be worried
    Look at the comments on the Cif piece about corbyns antisemitic friends... Utter failure to engage with reality
    It is quite amusing that there seems to be a genuine belief that the vitriol being poured on Corbyn's head from within the Labour Party and from the likes of the Guardian is "proof that the Tories are scared of him" ;) Because anyone who criticises him is, de facto, a Tory!

    It's a Syriza style mass delusion. There's no rational reasoning any more.
    Did Syriza beat an unpopular pro Austerity Govt or was it roundly rejected by the electorate?
    True true. It was the delusion of their platform that ran into German reality as it was always going to.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    edited August 2015

    Mortimer said:

    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Growing speculation re Gordon Brown speech Edinburgh on Sunday. If to deliver knock-out to Corbyn he must act quickly. Voting starts tmrw.

    If there is any expectation that Corbyn might inprove SLABs image with the Scottish voting public, it seems that Brown is out to crush this with his full weight.

    Ridiculously risible choice of venue.
    Indeed. Since 2015 election Scotland has voted itself a sideshow in British politics. Allowing EV4EL and likely cementing 15 years of Tory rule.

    As well as losing a referendum in 2014.

    Pretty bad couple of years for progressive politics in Scotland.

    Ah, 'Scotland' has lost a referendum has it?

    An interesting interpretation.
    I guess tongue in cheek really is hard to read on t'net.

    < irony >Didn't the SNP claim to speak up for Scotland?< /irony >

    Luckily, it seems that Scotland wants to be spoken up for by London
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834

    welshowl said:

    alex. said:

    Plato said:

    It's a #JeSuisGuardian moment :wink:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 16m16 minutes ago
    The Guardian has endorsed Yvette Cooper, and its comment moderators should be worried
    Look at the comments on the Cif piece about corbyns antisemitic friends... Utter failure to engage with reality
    It is quite amusing that there seems to be a genuine belief that the vitriol being poured on Corbyn's head from within the Labour Party and from the likes of the Guardian is "proof that the Tories are scared of him" ;) Because anyone who criticises him is, de facto, a Tory!

    It's a Syriza style mass delusion. There's no rational reasoning any more.
    Did Syriza beat an unpopular pro Austerity Govt or was it roundly rejected by the electorate?
    Greece has been through genuine austerity, seven years of recession and has unemployment running at 25% or so. The situation is not remotely comparable.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Diane for London ‏@DianeforLondon 2 mins2 minutes ago

    . @HackneyAbbott happy to bet £20 on @jeremycorbyn @Corbyn4Leader to be prime minister in 2020! #lbcdebate #JezWeCan

    Bless.

    Is there a possibility that Diane Abbot could win the Labour nomination? That would be the fast track to the delusional bubble in the Labour Party being pricked in no time!

  • Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
    Aneurin Bevan was a Tory.
    Wasn't he the guy who called the Tories 'vermin' though?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    MP_SE said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Yvette's speech might be fine. I honestly can't tell, her delivery strikes of boredom and monotone.

    Jezza has a fiery passion.

    Yvette Cooper has the charisma of a damp rag.
    If asked would she would prefer“tea or coffee”. The suspicion is, she might reply “it is a false choice”, or perhaps ask for a bit of both.
    Liz would probably reply that whatever the cabinet has will be fine by her.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,738

    RE The Tories winning on policy - the Tories hardly mentioned policy throughout the election. In fact both parties were both guilty of giving extraordinarily little detail about what exactly they'd do in power. It was issues, and more how parties' attitudes on certain issues (immigration, welfare, the economy) and the economy which decided the electorate.

    This is spot on, from the Labour perspective, the problem wasn't Ed Miliband's policies, which no one on the doorstep could've told you anyway but the fact that he was a blank slate that voters fears and dislikes could be projected on to. He, and the party under him never really gained definition as we'd see a zig-zag between a populist policy and an attempt to shore up his fiscal credibility. It meant in Nuneaton the Tories could paint him as a dangerous unworldly left-winger who'd do lots of things he'd explicitly said he wouldn't do, while in Scotland he could be painted as part of a pro-austerity establishment (which doesn't actually exist).

    Which in a way is what's caused the Corbyn problem now. Ed Miliband lost in England because he was perceived as too left-wing, but the fact that he wasn't actually a hard left loon has meant that the likes of Owen Jones and his band of useful idiots have been able to deny that Middle-England viewing him that way was why he lost, they can harp on about Scotland, authenticity etc... Of course there's one massive problem - if you offer someone grape juice and they say 'sorry I don't like white wine' you don't walk straight to the fridge to get them a bottle of Chablis - you'll end up with them declining again but in a brusquer manner.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    welshowl said:

    alex. said:

    Plato said:

    It's a #JeSuisGuardian moment :wink:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 16m16 minutes ago
    The Guardian has endorsed Yvette Cooper, and its comment moderators should be worried
    Look at the comments on the Cif piece about corbyns antisemitic friends... Utter failure to engage with reality
    It is quite amusing that there seems to be a genuine belief that the vitriol being poured on Corbyn's head from within the Labour Party and from the likes of the Guardian is "proof that the Tories are scared of him" ;) Because anyone who criticises him is, de facto, a Tory!

    It's a Syriza style mass delusion. There's no rational reasoning any more.
    Did Syriza beat an unpopular pro Austerity Govt or was it roundly rejected by the electorate?
    Greece has been through genuine austerity, seven years of recession and has unemployment running at 25% or so. The situation is not remotely comparable.
    They won then did they?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547

    welshowl said:

    alex. said:

    Plato said:

    It's a #JeSuisGuardian moment :wink:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 16m16 minutes ago
    The Guardian has endorsed Yvette Cooper, and its comment moderators should be worried
    Look at the comments on the Cif piece about corbyns antisemitic friends... Utter failure to engage with reality
    It is quite amusing that there seems to be a genuine belief that the vitriol being poured on Corbyn's head from within the Labour Party and from the likes of the Guardian is "proof that the Tories are scared of him" ;) Because anyone who criticises him is, de facto, a Tory!

    It's a Syriza style mass delusion. There's no rational reasoning any more.
    Did Syriza beat an unpopular pro Austerity Govt or was it roundly rejected by the electorate?
    They've ended up imposing even worse austerity through their incompetence.

    But, I'd say that this is more like the nomination of George McGovern in 1972.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Channel 4 News ‏@Channel4News 2 mins2 minutes ago

    Unite leader Len McCluskey has written to all his 104,000 affiliated members urging them to vote for Jeremy Corbyn reports @MichaelLCrick


    Comrade Len surely has a sore wrist for more than one reason ....

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited August 2015
    Corbyn... brilliant..
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2015
    alex. said:

    Wow...look at what Kens just been saying... Apparently labours now more popular than anytime over the last 40 years....

    You would have thought that they would have taken more than a couple of months before forgetting about the mass delusion caused by like minded talking to like minded before the General Election...

    Peston's blog on Corbynomics was quite interesting - maybe the Corbynites dominated the later comments (didn't get that far) but the early comments were just incredulous that his proposals were seriously being put forward. The contrast with the Guardian BTL was striking.
    I read that too, I'm against the principle of QE because it predictably failed to do any good to any economy that has tried it.
    Yes it lowers interest rates and encourages public deficits, but QE is a very corrupt mechanism of giving free money to people who already have tons of money, as a result it reduces investment in productive areas and increases it in unproductive areas like the stockmarket and house prices.
    QE is one of big reasons why productivity rates are bad.
    It would have been effective if you gave the money to people who actually needed it, an actual helicopter you might say dropping money to the streets.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Cameron must be rueing the fixed term parliament act. With Corbyn as leader I imagine he'd prefer to have an election after 4 rather than 5 years.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelPDeacon: The Guardian declares its support for Yvette Cooper. You'll never guess the response http://t.co/ErT39l5Hms

    @MichaelPDeacon:
    Why doesn't the Guardian JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't Polly Toynbee JOIN THE TORIES.
    Why doesn't the Soviet Union JOIN THE TORIES

    LOL at this stage Atlee could criticise Corbyn, and he'd be called a Tory.
    CIFers are the kind of people my grandma called 'hard-ears'.
    Aneurin Bevan was a Tory.
    Wasn't he the guy who called the Tories 'vermin' though?
    Strictly I think it was "lower than vermin". I don't know if he included Mrs Attlee in that.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    I feel sensible Labour supporters pain........ and revel in it.

  • AndyJS said:

    Cameron must be rueing the fixed term parliament act. With Corbyn as leader I imagine he'd prefer to have an election after 4 rather than 5 years.

    The fixed term Parliament Act is as meaningful as a chocolate fireguard. If he wants to call an early election then instead of calling Her Majesty all the PM does is go to the Commons and table a motion that an early election be called and implement a three-line-whip on his own side to vote for an early election.

    Unless the opposition votes against an early election two-thirds will easily be reached and Parliament is dissolved. If the Opposition Leader puts a three line whip on his side to vote against an election and insist on 12 more months of Conservative rule then he'd make his own side a complete mockery.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    Cameron won't be going to the country in 4 or 5 years time.

    HE won't go back to the country at all.
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