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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Murder on the dancefloor?

SystemSystem Posts: 11,687
edited July 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Murder on the dancefloor?

The 60-something candidate, initially priced at 100/1 by Ladbrokes, suddenly looks like he might actually win. The public seem to have had enough of the over-coached younger generation and his price tumbles to single figures, but the establishment judges warn that he is making a mockery of the contest.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873
    edited July 2015
    1ST LIKE JEZZA
  • Options
    I've joined Labour to vote for JC
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,797
    Bowing out would show that his run was purely about having an ego trip - if all he wanted was to spark a debate, he could have stayed on the outside and criticised the leadership race as it went along, but he's sold that 'debate' as an opportunity to let people have a wider pool to pick from in the actual contest. Bowing out and denying them that would show there was never any intent to offer a genuine alternative to the others, just get some publicity and some policy concessions. Not terrible goals, but not what he has since claimed he was after, I disagree he could bow out 'with honour' having gotten that.

    If he should win, I should think he will have a few years - who of the current crop is going to lead a slew of defections, honestly - and he could bow out with honour if it looks like the country and party are not buying what he is selling.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873
    4th like Liz
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,480
    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day
  • Options
    O/T is George Osborne a cycling fan?
    I was surprised to see him presenting the award to Froomy in Paris today
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
  • Options
    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Maybe as well as Corbyn, the political commentators and the bookies have possibly written off 53 year old Ken too early in the SLAB leadership race. In the ST today he indicates the race is neck and neck:

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/scotland/article1585827.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2015_07_25

    Currently Ladbrokes have Ken on 12/1 and Kezia on 1/50. Interestingly when Ken last stood he got over 50% of the membership vote in the first round of a 3 horse race.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,480

    O/T is George Osborne a cycling fan?
    I was surprised to see him presenting the award to Froomy in Paris today

    Not sure, he was there for an EU meeting
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873

    O/T is George Osborne a cycling fan?
    I was surprised to see him presenting the award to Froomy in Paris today

    AVOIDING ANNIVERSARY GAMES BOOING?
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873
    caplocks trouble sorry
  • Options

    O/T is George Osborne a cycling fan?
    I was surprised to see him presenting the award to Froomy in Paris today

    Not sure, he was there for an EU meeting
    At least he wasn't booed this time.

  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,864
    FPT..



    "someone is making a huge amount of money from commuters and passengers who have not seen measurable improvements to services in terms of increasing capacity."

    Train Operating Company profits are in the region of 2-4%. Hardly extortionate, and it would be easy for inefficiencies of a nationalise network to be greater than that.

    The network needs more capacity because it is increasingly popular: passenger numbers are (from memory) higher than ever before (including the golden age of rail travel), and have doubled since privatisation.

    Correlation does not equal causation, but BR managed a shrinking network for forty years. The privatised railways have looked after an expanding network for twenty. Renationalisation for the wrong reasons could undo much of that progress.

    And is it too much to hope he mentioned railfreight? A big, glaring hole the pro-renationalisation peeps almost totally ignore.

    That argument, however valid it might be, will be lost on the sardines crowding on to the 5.32 from Waterloo to Guildford every night. Yes, we know more people are travelling - is that because of the disadvantages of driving (especially around major towns and cities) as well as the rapidly growing population ?

    Stand on the westbound platform of East Ham Station at 7am every weekday morning and you see the paradox of immigration and economic growth on the same overcrowded Tube.

    Once again, Corbyn isn't arguing for a return to the bad old days of British Rail - he simply (and not unreasonably) wants to see the rail network run for the benefit of passengers and that means making sure track infrastructural improvements are prioritised and that the commuter paying thousands of pounds for an annual season ticket to stand in discomfort has at least some sense that their situation isn't just responded to by PR platitudes.


  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,480

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    I bet you were and you a married man.

    Does Mrs TSE know your harem secret?
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,480
    edited July 2015

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    Back from hols where I was planning on offering a bet that JC will indeed step aside at a late stage - he's not a leader and reminds me in some ways of a certain kipper / independent MP from the Thames Estuary area

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    stodge said:

    FPT..



    "someone is making a huge amount of money from commuters and passengers who have not seen measurable improvements to services in terms of increasing capacity."

    Train Operating Company profits are in the region of 2-4%. Hardly extortionate, and it would be easy for inefficiencies of a nationalise network to be greater than that.

    The network needs more capacity because it is increasingly popular: passenger numbers are (from memory) higher than ever before (including the golden age of rail travel), and have doubled since privatisation.

    Correlation does not equal causation, but BR managed a shrinking network for forty years. The privatised railways have looked after an expanding network for twenty. Renationalisation for the wrong reasons could undo much of that progress.

    And is it too much to hope he mentioned railfreight? A big, glaring hole the pro-renationalisation peeps almost totally ignore.

    That argument, however valid it might be, will be lost on the sardines crowding on to the 5.32 from Waterloo to Guildford every night. Yes, we know more people are travelling - is that because of the disadvantages of driving (especially around major towns and cities) as well as the rapidly growing population ?

    Stand on the westbound platform of East Ham Station at 7am every weekday morning and you see the paradox of immigration and economic growth on the same overcrowded Tube.

    Once again, Corbyn isn't arguing for a return to the bad old days of British Rail - he simply (and not unreasonably) wants to see the rail network run for the benefit of passengers and that means making sure track infrastructural improvements are prioritised and that the commuter paying thousands of pounds for an annual season ticket to stand in discomfort has at least some sense that their situation isn't just responded to by PR platitudes.
    "means making sure track infrastructural improvements are prioritised "

    What does that even mean, and how would renationalisation fix it?
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    How is Sol doing for Mayor?
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    calum said:

    Maybe as well as Corbyn, the political commentators and the bookies have possibly written off 53 year old Ken too early in the SLAB leadership race. In the ST today he indicates the race is neck and neck:

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/scotland/article1585827.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2015_07_25

    Currently Ladbrokes have Ken on 12/1 and Kezia on 1/50. Interestingly when Ken last stood he got over 50% of the membership vote in the first round of a 3 horse race.

    I (probably wisely) pay little attention to the SLAB shennanigans, but whenever I've seen her Dugdale has always seemed pretty run-of-the-mill to me. Mystifying how she's apparently such a hot favourite.

    I still say they should get Johann "no nonsense" Lamont back.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,480

    How is Sol doing for Mayor?

    Didn't make the short list, which is good for him in the long term, mark my words, he'll be the Tory candidate in Buckingham in 2020
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059

    How is Sol doing for Mayor?

    Didn't make the short list, which is good for him in the long term, mark my words, he'll be the Tory candidate in Buckingham in 2020
    Now there's a thought to welcome me home... thanks muchly.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323
    stodge said:

    FPT..



    "someone is making a huge amount of money from commuters and passengers who have not seen measurable improvements to services in terms of increasing capacity."

    Train Operating Company profits are in the region of 2-4%. Hardly extortionate, and it would be easy for inefficiencies of a nationalise network to be greater than that.

    The network needs more capacity because it is increasingly popular: passenger numbers are (from memory) higher than ever before (including the golden age of rail travel), and have doubled since privatisation.

    Correlation does not equal causation, but BR managed a shrinking network for forty years. The privatised railways have looked after an expanding network for twenty. Renationalisation for the wrong reasons could undo much of that progress.

    And is it too much to hope he mentioned railfreight? A big, glaring hole the pro-renationalisation peeps almost totally ignore.

    That argument, however valid it might be, will be lost on the sardines crowding on to the 5.32 from Waterloo to Guildford every night. Yes, we know more people are travelling - is that because of the disadvantages of driving (especially around major towns and cities) as well as the rapidly growing population ?

    Stand on the westbound platform of East Ham Station at 7am every weekday morning and you see the paradox of immigration and economic growth on the same overcrowded Tube.

    Once again, Corbyn isn't arguing for a return to the bad old days of British Rail - he simply (and not unreasonably) wants to see the rail network run for the benefit of passengers and that means making sure track infrastructural improvements are prioritised and that the commuter paying thousands of pounds for an annual season ticket to stand in discomfort has at least some sense that their situation isn't just responded to by PR platitudes.
    Beeching was the biggest railway vandal in history.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,797

    How is Sol doing for Mayor?

    Didn't make the short list, which is good for him in the long term, mark my words, he'll be the Tory candidate in Buckingham in 2020
    Can anyone stop Zac?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,480

    How is Sol doing for Mayor?

    Didn't make the short list, which is good for him in the long term, mark my words, he'll be the Tory candidate in Buckingham in 2020
    Now there's a thought to welcome me home... thanks muchly.
    This will cheer you up, Liverpool spent £32.5m on Christian Benteke, the Emile Heskey de nos jours
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,480
    kle4 said:

    How is Sol doing for Mayor?

    Didn't make the short list, which is good for him in the long term, mark my words, he'll be the Tory candidate in Buckingham in 2020
    Can anyone stop Zac?
    Dame Tessa Jowell
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Sol Campbell definitely won't be Mayor of London....at least there was some good news today!
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,288
    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,124

    O/T is George Osborne a cycling fan?
    I was surprised to see him presenting the award to Froomy in Paris today

    Perhaps a show of solidarity with someone who has had to suffer vile defamations regarding drug taking? At least nobody's chucked piss over Ozzy. So far.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035

    stodge said:

    FPT..



    "someone is making a huge amount of money from commuters and passengers who have not seen measurable improvements to services in terms of increasing capacity."

    Train Operating Company profits are in the region of 2-4%. Hardly extortionate, and it would be easy for inefficiencies of a nationalise network to be greater than that.

    The network needs more capacity because it is increasingly popular: passenger numbers are (from memory) higher than ever before (including the golden age of rail travel), and have doubled since privatisation.

    Correlation does not equal causation, but BR managed a shrinking network for forty years. The privatised railways have looked after an expanding network for twenty. Renationalisation for the wrong reasons could undo much of that progress.

    And is it too much to hope he mentioned railfreight? A big, glaring hole the pro-renationalisation peeps almost totally ignore.

    That argument, however valid it might be, will be lost on the sardines crowding on to the 5.32 from Waterloo to Guildford every night. Yes, we know more people are travelling - is that because of the disadvantages of driving (especially around major towns and cities) as well as the rapidly growing population ?

    Stand on the westbound platform of East Ham Station at 7am every weekday morning and you see the paradox of immigration and economic growth on the same overcrowded Tube.

    Once again, Corbyn isn't arguing for a return to the bad old days of British Rail - he simply (and not unreasonably) wants to see the rail network run for the benefit of passengers and that means making sure track infrastructural improvements are prioritised and that the commuter paying thousands of pounds for an annual season ticket to stand in discomfort has at least some sense that their situation isn't just responded to by PR platitudes.
    Beeching was the biggest railway vandal in history.
    Or, alternatively, he saved the railways. :)

    If Beeching had not happened, what would have happened to the network?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,797

    How is Sol doing for Mayor?

    Didn't make the short list, which is good for him in the long term, mark my words, he'll be the Tory candidate in Buckingham in 2020
    Now there's a thought to welcome me home... thanks muchly.
    This will cheer you up, Liverpool spent £32.5m on Christian Benteke, the Emile Heskey de nos jours
    Emile Heskey has 62 caps for England. What a world we live in where that happened.
  • Options
    handandmousehandandmouse Posts: 213

    Back from hols where I was planning on offering a bet that JC will indeed step aside at a late stage - he's not a leader and reminds me in some ways of a certain kipper / independent MP from the Thames Estuary area

    I can't see it. This is not Strictly Come Dancing. He has a great weight of expectations on his shoulders now, he'd be letting an awful lot of people down if he withdrew.

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,480
    kle4 said:

    How is Sol doing for Mayor?

    Didn't make the short list, which is good for him in the long term, mark my words, he'll be the Tory candidate in Buckingham in 2020
    Now there's a thought to welcome me home... thanks muchly.
    This will cheer you up, Liverpool spent £32.5m on Christian Benteke, the Emile Heskey de nos jours
    Emile Heskey has 62 caps for England. What a world we live in where that happened.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pogPhUWPxk
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035

    Back from hols where I was planning on offering a bet that JC will indeed step aside at a late stage - he's not a leader and reminds me in some ways of a certain kipper / independent MP from the Thames Estuary area

    I can't see it. This is not Strictly Come Dancing. He has a great weight of expectations on his shoulders now, he'd be letting an awful lot of people down if he withdrew.

    His withdrawal would be the final victory of the Blairite tendency, whoever else won. It would be the death of the hard left within Labour.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    stodge said:

    FPT..



    "someone is making a huge amount of money from commuters and passengers who have not seen measurable improvements to services in terms of increasing capacity."

    Train Operating Company profits are in the region of 2-4%. Hardly extortionate, and it would be easy for inefficiencies of a nationalise network to be greater than that.

    The network needs more capacity because it is increasingly popular: passenger numbers are (from memory) higher than ever before (including the golden age of rail travel), and have doubled since privatisation.

    Correlation does not equal causation, but BR managed a shrinking network for forty years. The privatised railways have looked after an expanding network for twenty. Renationalisation for the wrong reasons could undo much of that progress.

    And is it too much to hope he mentioned railfreight? A big, glaring hole the pro-renationalisation peeps almost totally ignore.

    That argument, however valid it might be, will be lost on the sardines crowding on to the 5.32 from Waterloo to Guildford every night. Yes, we know more people are travelling - is that because of the disadvantages of driving (especially around major towns and cities) as well as the rapidly growing population ?

    Stand on the westbound platform of East Ham Station at 7am every weekday morning and you see the paradox of immigration and economic growth on the same overcrowded Tube.

    Once again, Corbyn isn't arguing for a return to the bad old days of British Rail - he simply (and not unreasonably) wants to see the rail network run for the benefit of passengers and that means making sure track infrastructural improvements are prioritised and that the commuter paying thousands of pounds for an annual season ticket to stand in discomfort has at least some sense that their situation isn't just responded to by PR platitudes.
    Beeching was the biggest railway vandal in history.
    I doubt that those little old village lines would have helped alleviate my journey in on the central line, somehow.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323

    stodge said:

    FPT..



    "someone is making a huge amount of money from commuters and passengers who have not seen measurable improvements to services in terms of increasing capacity."

    Train Operating Company profits are in the region of 2-4%. Hardly extortionate, and it would be easy for inefficiencies of a nationalise network to be greater than that.

    The network needs more capacity because it is increasingly popular: passenger numbers are (from memory) higher than ever before (including the golden age of rail travel), and have doubled since privatisation.

    Correlation does not equal causation, but BR managed a shrinking network for forty years. The privatised railways have looked after an expanding network for twenty. Renationalisation for the wrong reasons could undo much of that progress.

    And is it too much to hope he mentioned railfreight? A big, glaring hole the pro-renationalisation peeps almost totally ignore.

    That argument, however valid it might be, will be lost on the sardines crowding on to the 5.32 from Waterloo to Guildford every night. Yes, we know more people are travelling - is that because of the disadvantages of driving (especially around major towns and cities) as well as the rapidly growing population ?

    Stand on the westbound platform of East Ham Station at 7am every weekday morning and you see the paradox of immigration and economic growth on the same overcrowded Tube.

    Once again, Corbyn isn't arguing for a return to the bad old days of British Rail - he simply (and not unreasonably) wants to see the rail network run for the benefit of passengers and that means making sure track infrastructural improvements are prioritised and that the commuter paying thousands of pounds for an annual season ticket to stand in discomfort has at least some sense that their situation isn't just responded to by PR platitudes.
    Beeching was the biggest railway vandal in history.
    Or, alternatively, he saved the railways. :)

    If Beeching had not happened, what would have happened to the network?
    It would be a lot bigger than it is today.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
    Relax. When you've been here a bit longer, you'll appreciate TSE's creativity with jammin song references into threads
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323
    edited July 2015
    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MikeL said:



    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    My Dad always taught me to self-insure that particular risk
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,480
    Charles said:

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
    Relax. When you've been here a bit longer, you'll appreciate TSE's creativity with jammin song references into threads
    My subtle song references.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    O/T is George Osborne a cycling fan?
    I was surprised to see him presenting the award to Froomy in Paris today

    Perhaps a show of solidarity with someone who has had to suffer vile defamations regarding drug taking? At least nobody's chucked piss over Ozzy. So far.
    One especially delicious result of the GE is the even spread of bitterness throughout the also- rans of LDs/Nats/Greens and of course Labour. It has been the gift that keeps on giving.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,020
    edited July 2015

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    In the US Bernie Sanders too is now emerging as a credible threat to Hillary. There is about a 5-10% chance that by May 2020 Jeremy Corbyn could be UK PM, Bernie Sanders (or Donald Trump) US President and Marine Le Pen President of France
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323

    stodge said:

    FPT..



    "someone is making a huge amount of money from commuters and passengers who have not seen measurable improvements to services in terms of increasing capacity."

    Train Operating Company profits are in the region of 2-4%. Hardly extortionate, and it would be easy for inefficiencies of a nationalise network to be greater than that.

    The network needs more capacity because it is increasingly popular: passenger numbers are (from memory) higher than ever before (including the golden age of rail travel), and have doubled since privatisation.

    Correlation does not equal causation, but BR managed a shrinking network for forty years. The privatised railways have looked after an expanding network for twenty. Renationalisation for the wrong reasons could undo much of that progress.

    And is it too much to hope he mentioned railfreight? A big, glaring hole the pro-renationalisation peeps almost totally ignore.

    That argument, however valid it might be, will be lost on the sardines crowding on to the 5.32 from Waterloo to Guildford every night. Yes, we know more people are travelling - is that because of the disadvantages of driving (especially around major towns and cities) as well as the rapidly growing population ?

    Stand on the westbound platform of East Ham Station at 7am every weekday morning and you see the paradox of immigration and economic growth on the same overcrowded Tube.

    Once again, Corbyn isn't arguing for a return to the bad old days of British Rail - he simply (and not unreasonably) wants to see the rail network run for the benefit of passengers and that means making sure track infrastructural improvements are prioritised and that the commuter paying thousands of pounds for an annual season ticket to stand in discomfort has at least some sense that their situation isn't just responded to by PR platitudes.
    Beeching was the biggest railway vandal in history.
    I doubt that those little old village lines would have helped alleviate my journey in on the central line, somehow.
    Luckily, quite a few railway lines have re-opened for public use (as opposed to preservation) in the last twenty years ago.

    Still, Beeching left places like Redditch and Stratford-upon-Avon as branch lines even though they are only a few miles apart.

    The Central line should have been built to 16ft diameter tunnel to allow main-line size trains to run between Ealing/Ruislip and Stratford. But CrossRail should help when it opens in 2018.
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    felix said:

    O/T is George Osborne a cycling fan?
    I was surprised to see him presenting the award to Froomy in Paris today

    Perhaps a show of solidarity with someone who has had to suffer vile defamations regarding drug taking? At least nobody's chucked piss over Ozzy. So far.
    One especially delicious result of the GE is the even spread of bitterness throughout the also- rans of LDs/Nats/Greens and of course Labour. It has been the gift that keeps on giving.
    It's like a smell they give off. Maybe they dont realise it. They really did think they were going to be in power, or at least have huge fun watching Cameron squirm trying to govern as largest party.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    edited July 2015

    stodge said:

    FPT..



    "someone is making a huge amount of money from commuters and passengers who have not seen measurable improvements to services in terms of increasing capacity."

    Train Operating Company profits are in the region of 2-4%. Hardly extortionate, and it would be easy for inefficiencies of a nationalise network to be greater than that.

    The network needs more capacity because it is increasingly popular: passenger numbers are (from memory) higher than ever before (including the golden age of rail travel), and have doubled since privatisation.

    Correlation does not equal causation, but BR managed a shrinking network for forty years. The privatised railways have looked after an expanding network for twenty. Renationalisation for the wrong reasons could undo much of that progress.

    And is it too much to hope he mentioned railfreight? A big, glaring hole the pro-renationalisation peeps almost totally ignore.

    That argument, however valid it might be, will be lost on the sardines crowding on to the 5.32 from Waterloo to Guildford every night. Yes, we know more people are travelling - is that because of the disadvantages of driving (especially around major towns and cities) as well as the rapidly growing population ?

    Stand on the westbound platform of East Ham Station at 7am every weekday morning and you see the paradox of immigration and economic growth on the same overcrowded Tube.

    Once again, Corbyn isn't arguing for a return to the bad old days of British Rail - he simply (and not unreasonably) wants to see the rail network run for the benefit of passengers and that means making sure track infrastructural improvements are prioritised and that the commuter paying thousands of pounds for an annual season ticket to stand in discomfort has at least some sense that their situation isn't just responded to by PR platitudes.
    Beeching was the biggest railway vandal in history.
    Or, alternatively, he saved the railways. :)

    If Beeching had not happened, what would have happened to the network?
    It would be a lot bigger than it is today.
    Or a lot smaller, as increased losses led to an earlier Serpell-style report, and a larger hacking of the network.

    Just read option C3!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpell_Report

    Thatcher somewhat ignored the report, which every rail enthusiast should be grateful for.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    Right wingers are cheering Corbyn on, as far as I can see.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323
    edited July 2015

    stodge said:

    FPT..



    "someone is making a huge amount of money from commuters and passengers who have not seen measurable improvements to services in terms of increasing capacity."


    The network needs more capacity because it is increasingly popular: passenger numbers are (from memory) higher than ever before (including the golden age of rail travel), and have doubled since privatisation.

    Correlation does not equal causation, but BR managed a shrinking network for forty years. The privatised railways have looked after an expanding network for twenty. Renationalisation for the wrong reasons could undo much of that progress.

    And is it too much to hope he mentioned railfreight? A big, glaring hole the pro-renationalisation peeps almost totally ignore.

    That argument, however valid it might be, will be lost on the sardines crowding on to the 5.32 from Waterloo to Guildford every night. Yes, we know more people are travelling - is that because of the disadvantages of driving (especially around major towns and cities) as well as the rapidly growing population ?

    Stand on the westbound platform of East Ham Station at 7am every weekday morning and you see the paradox of immigration and economic growth on the same overcrowded Tube.

    Once again, Corbyn isn't arguing for a return to the bad old days of British Rail - he simply (and not unreasonably) wants to see the rail network run for the benefit of passengers and that means making sure track infrastructural improvements are prioritised and that the commuter paying thousands of pounds for an annual season ticket to stand in discomfort has at least some sense that their situation isn't just responded to by PR platitudes.
    Beeching was the biggest railway vandal in history.
    Or, alternatively, he saved the railways. :)

    If Beeching had not happened, what would have happened to the network?
    It would be a lot bigger than it is today.
    Or a lot smaller, as increased losses led to an earlier Serpell-style report, and a larger hacking of the network.

    Just read option C3!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpell_Report

    Thatcher somewhat ignored the report, which every rail enthusiast should be grateful for.
    Still, Beeching left places like Redditch and Stratford-upon-Avon as branch lines even though they are geographically only a few miles apart.

    Luckily, quite a few railway lines have re-opened for public use (as opposed to preservation) in the last twenty years or so.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    I love how any criticism of the government = bitterness.
    Charles said:

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
    Relax. When you've been here a bit longer, you'll appreciate TSE's creativity with jammin song references into threads
    I can't wait to see Conservatives: The Musical then!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Sean_F said:

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    Right wingers are cheering Corbyn on, as far as I can see.
    So is the hard left.

    Team Corbyn is an unstoppable alliance
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited July 2015

    I love how any criticism of the government = bitterness.

    Charles said:

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
    Relax. When you've been here a bit longer, you'll appreciate TSE's creativity with jammin song references into threads
    I can't wait to see Conservatives: The Musical then!
    I propose a title "Song Sung Blue"
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    On topic:

    Nice article and attempt to ease his price out ;)
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    I love how any criticism of the government = bitterness.

    Charles said:

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
    Relax. When you've been here a bit longer, you'll appreciate TSE's creativity with jammin song references into threads
    I can't wait to see Conservatives: The Musical then!
    I propose a title "Song Sung Blue"
    I actually had to Google that song....

    At least the title is quite fitting!
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323
    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    Right wingers are cheering Corbyn on, as far as I can see.
    So is the hard left.

    Team Corbyn is an unstoppable alliance
    JICIPM!
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I love how any criticism of the government = bitterness.

    Charles said:

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
    Relax. When you've been here a bit longer, you'll appreciate TSE's creativity with jammin song references into threads
    I can't wait to see Conservatives: The Musical then!
    I propose a title "Song Sung Blue"
    How about it starting on the morning of the election with Ed Miliband singing 'Tomorrow Belongs to Me?'
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323

    I love how any criticism of the government = bitterness.

    Charles said:

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
    Relax. When you've been here a bit longer, you'll appreciate TSE's creativity with jammin song references into threads
    I can't wait to see Conservatives: The Musical then!
    No, no, no! It should be PoliticalBetting.com: The Musical!
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323
    "300" (as in Leonidas v. the Persians) is on ITV2 right now :)
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    SeanT said:

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    Hilariously mendacious, mischievous article from Matthew d'Ancona

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/26/smart-tories-labour-jeremy-corbyn-mania-david-cameron?CMP

    The Tories REALLY want Corbyn to win.
    Yes - he's defo trying to the "aren't I a clever journo for getting a new angle' trick while forgetting the more obvious ' if it walks like a duck....'

    Go Corbyn! :)
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323
    But then so is Joanna Lumley on the Trans-Siberian on ITV!

    *conflicted*
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035


    Still, Beeching left places like Redditch and Stratford-upon-Avon as branch lines even though they are geographically only a few miles apart.

    Luckily, quite a few railway lines have re-opened for public use (as opposed to preservation) in the last twenty years or so.

    Beeching was bound to make some mistakes, given the size of the task given him. Yet he only gave recommendations which the governments of the day chose to accept or ignore. It should also be remembered that the railway's mindset was very much about contraction, and less about traffic patterns fifty years in the future.

    And are you sure that aberration was down to Beeching? The railways had a big input into what was closed - hence my beloved Matlock to Buxton line closed when it was not even in the report, whilst the mid-Wales line was saved, allegedly because it served many Labour (i.e. government_ constituencies.

    Beeching gets too much bad press IMHO. He was given a difficult task, and did it reasonably well.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    Right wingers are cheering Corbyn on, as far as I can see.
    So is the hard left.

    Team Corbyn is an unstoppable alliance
    JICIPM!
    Catchy
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Off-topic:

    I've just discovered that my father-in-law was mentioned in the Wikileak cables. He was not too complementary of the government. :)
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323
    edited July 2015


    Still, Beeching left places like Redditch and Stratford-upon-Avon as branch lines even though they are geographically only a few miles apart.

    Luckily, quite a few railway lines have re-opened for public use (as opposed to preservation) in the last twenty years or so.

    Beeching was bound to make some mistakes, given the size of the task given him. Yet he only gave recommendations which the governments of the day chose to accept or ignore. It should also be remembered that the railway's mindset was very much about contraction, and less about traffic patterns fifty years in the future.

    And are you sure that aberration was down to Beeching? The railways had a big input into what was closed - hence my beloved Matlock to Buxton line closed when it was not even in the report, whilst the mid-Wales line was saved, allegedly because it served many Labour (i.e. government_ constituencies.

    Beeching gets too much bad press IMHO. He was given a difficult task, and did it reasonably well.
    Well, all of them are guilty of "Crimes against Our Railway Heritage"* :)

    (* copyright the Continuity Anti-Beeching Front)
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Jezza would be a very entertaining PM, but even he doubts that he would make it. He promised to serve the full five years. Five is not a vote of confidence in himself!
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    Right wingers are cheering Corbyn on, as far as I can see.
    So is the hard left.

    Team Corbyn is an unstoppable alliance
    JICIPM!
    Catchy
    Jezza is Cool is PM!
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035


    Still, Beeching left places like Redditch and Stratford-upon-Avon as branch lines even though they are geographically only a few miles apart.

    Luckily, quite a few railway lines have re-opened for public use (as opposed to preservation) in the last twenty years or so.

    Beeching was bound to make some mistakes, given the size of the task given him. Yet he only gave recommendations which the governments of the day chose to accept or ignore. It should also be remembered that the railway's mindset was very much about contraction, and less about traffic patterns fifty years in the future.

    And are you sure that aberration was down to Beeching? The railways had a big input into what was closed - hence my beloved Matlock to Buxton line closed when it was not even in the report, whilst the mid-Wales line was saved, allegedly because it served many Labour (i.e. government_ constituencies.

    Beeching gets too much bad press IMHO. He was given a difficult task, and did it reasonably well.
    Well, all of them are guilty of "Crimes against Our Railway Heritage"* :)

    (* copyright the Continuity Anti-Beeching Front)
    What are the sentencing guidelines for such crimes? Five days spent cutting 110-lb rail with a handsaw? A month of 3a.m. starts to light up and clean locos?
  • Options
    EICIPMEICIPM Posts: 55

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    Right wingers are cheering Corbyn on, as far as I can see.
    So is the hard left.

    Team Corbyn is an unstoppable alliance
    JICIPM!
    Catchy
    Jezza is Cool is PM!
    Accept no imitations #bringbackEd
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,020
    Interesting interview with Heath and European journalists on Ted Heath night on BBC Parliament on his view of Britain's role in the EEC
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,124

    I love how any criticism of the government = bitterness.

    Charles said:

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
    Relax. When you've been here a bit longer, you'll appreciate TSE's creativity with jammin song references into threads
    I can't wait to see Conservatives: The Musical then!
    No, no, no! It should be PoliticalBetting.com: The Musical!
    That is Conservatives: The Musical, pretty much?
    Lots of choruses, sub-Lloyd Weber, a bit samey.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,020
    CNN/ORC- General Election vs. Clinton

    Registered Voters
    Clinton 51% (54%)
    Bush 46% (41%)

    Clinton 53% (57%)
    Walker 44% (40%)

    Clinton 56% (59%)
    Trump 40% (35%)

    Adults
    Clinton 51% (54%)
    Bush 46% (41%)

    Clinton 54% (57%)
    Walker 43% (38%)

    Clinton 57% (59%)
    Trump 38% (34%)

    Registered Voters
    Bush 48%
    Sanders 47%

    Sanders 48%
    Walkers 43%

    Sanders 59%
    Trump 38%

    Adults
    Sanders 48%
    Bush 47%

    Sanders 48%
    Walker 42%

    Sanders 58%
    Trump 38%
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2179399-cnn-orc-poll-2016-election-9-a-m-july-26-2015.html
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    SeanT said:

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    Hilariously mendacious, mischievous article from Matthew d'Ancona

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/26/smart-tories-labour-jeremy-corbyn-mania-david-cameron?CMP

    The Tories REALLY want Corbyn to win.
    Yes - he's defo trying to the "aren't I a clever journo for getting a new angle' trick while forgetting the more obvious ' if it walks like a duck....'

    Go Corbyn! :)
    Apparently the election of an insanely left wing, utilities-nationalising, immigration-loving, CND-supporting, IRA-succouring, Falklands-giving-awaying Labour leader will "shift the centre of politics to the Left"

    Yes. Yes. That's so true. Similarly, if the Tories had, in 2001, unexpectedly elected Vlad the Impaler as leader, that would have "shifted politics to the Right".

    Chortle.
    I think it was 2005 that the Tories had a Romanian descended leader, not 2001.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,480

    I love how any criticism of the government = bitterness.

    Charles said:

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
    Relax. When you've been here a bit longer, you'll appreciate TSE's creativity with jammin song references into threads
    I can't wait to see Conservatives: The Musical then!
    No, no, no! It should be PoliticalBetting.com: The Musical!
    That is Conservatives: The Musical, pretty much?
    Lots of choruses, sub-Lloyd Weber, a bit samey.
    Remind me, which party came up with this?

    The new standings orders state that any MP must "accept that no member shall within or outwith the parliament publicly criticise a group decision, policy or another member of the group".

    So the lots of choruses, much samey, really applies to the SNP not the Tories
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323


    Still, Beeching left places like Redditch and Stratford-upon-Avon as branch lines even though they are geographically only a few miles apart.

    Luckily, quite a few railway lines have re-opened for public use (as opposed to preservation) in the last twenty years or so.

    Beeching was bound to make some mistakes, given the size of the task given him. Yet he only gave recommendations which the governments of the day chose to accept or ignore. It should also be remembered that the railway's mindset was very much about contraction, and less about traffic patterns fifty years in the future.

    And are you sure that aberration was down to Beeching? The railways had a big input into what was closed - hence my beloved Matlock to Buxton line closed when it was not even in the report, whilst the mid-Wales line was saved, allegedly because it served many Labour (i.e. government_ constituencies.

    Beeching gets too much bad press IMHO. He was given a difficult task, and did it reasonably well.
    Well, all of them are guilty of "Crimes against Our Railway Heritage"* :)

    (* copyright the Continuity Anti-Beeching Front)
    What are the sentencing guidelines for such crimes? Five days spent cutting 110-lb rail with a handsaw? A month of 3a.m. starts to light up and clean locos?
    Despite their heroic defence of St Matthews station, saving it from the bulldozers, the original Anti-Beeching Front was wound up in the 1960s after allegedly abandoning the Trainspotting Community - a charge they deny. Graffiti appeared in rail enthusiast neighbourhoods such as "ABF - A Bloody Failure". An order was given to "dump arms", but volunteers mistakenly interpreted it as an order to take a dump at their nearest station toilets!

    However, a hard-core group decided to perpetuate the struggle, albeit covertly, as the Continuity ABF, vowing to carry on its campaign of Physical Force Trainspotting :)
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873
    Humans is on goodnight
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    SeanT said:

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    Hilariously mendacious, mischievous article from Matthew d'Ancona

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/26/smart-tories-labour-jeremy-corbyn-mania-david-cameron?CMP

    The Tories REALLY want Corbyn to win.
    The selections of Michael Foot and IDS did not shift politics to the Left or Right respectively.

    If Corbyn wins, that would only happen if the Tories lost their nerve, and decided they had to move left. And that would open up territory for UKIP.

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I love how any criticism of the government = bitterness.

    Charles said:

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
    Relax. When you've been here a bit longer, you'll appreciate TSE's creativity with jammin song references into threads
    I can't wait to see Conservatives: The Musical then!
    No, no, no! It should be PoliticalBetting.com: The Musical!
    That is Conservatives: The Musical, pretty much?
    Lots of choruses, sub-Lloyd Weber, a bit samey.
    Remind me, which party came up with this?

    The new standings orders state that any MP must "accept that no member shall within or outwith the parliament publicly criticise a group decision, policy or another member of the group".

    So the lots of choruses, much samey, really applies to the SNP not the Tories
    I am sure we could fit in "Donald, Where's your troosers" to keep them happy...

    https://youtu.be/pDJflQfNUE8
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,124

    I love how any criticism of the government = bitterness.

    Charles said:

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
    Relax. When you've been here a bit longer, you'll appreciate TSE's creativity with jammin song references into threads
    I can't wait to see Conservatives: The Musical then!
    No, no, no! It should be PoliticalBetting.com: The Musical!
    That is Conservatives: The Musical, pretty much?
    Lots of choruses, sub-Lloyd Weber, a bit samey.
    Remind me, which party came up with this?

    The new standings orders state that any MP must "accept that no member shall within or outwith the parliament publicly criticise a group decision, policy or another member of the group".

    So the lots of choruses, much samey, really applies to the SNP not the Tories
    I'm glad that you accept that PB is just an arm of the Conservative party.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Jeremy Corbyn is riding a tiger of populist enthusiasm. It's too late for him to risk dismounting. The eruption of outrage from the rebels without a clue would be volcanic.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited July 2015
    Streuth...Last weeks "60 mins" programme in Australia was a jaw dropper. It included an interview with Zac Goldsmith.

    I won't say anymore for legal reasons other than to say it makes todays Lord's scandal look like very very small beer. It is freely available on the internet.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,480

    I love how any criticism of the government = bitterness.

    Charles said:

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
    Relax. When you've been here a bit longer, you'll appreciate TSE's creativity with jammin song references into threads
    I can't wait to see Conservatives: The Musical then!
    No, no, no! It should be PoliticalBetting.com: The Musical!
    That is Conservatives: The Musical, pretty much?
    Lots of choruses, sub-Lloyd Weber, a bit samey.
    Remind me, which party came up with this?

    The new standings orders state that any MP must "accept that no member shall within or outwith the parliament publicly criticise a group decision, policy or another member of the group".

    So the lots of choruses, much samey, really applies to the SNP not the Tories
    I'm glad that you accept that PB is just an arm of the Conservative party.
    I don't accept that at all.

    But me saying that is probably cause for Nicola to call a second referendum I guess.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323

    I love how any criticism of the government = bitterness.

    Charles said:

    That series of Strictly Come Dancing always makes me angry, the cock up with the semi final voting still irks me to this day

    Really surely you are not as mentally scarred as me with GE2015
    I love Strictly, I was balls deep, as it were, on Lisa Snowden and Rachel Stevens
    Jesus Christ....
    Balls deep in a betting sense.

    As Guest editor, I've done a few PB threads with the phrase "Balls Deep" in the headline
    I have to say, this use of metaphors in regard to betting is very...'creative'.
    Relax. When you've been here a bit longer, you'll appreciate TSE's creativity with jammin song references into threads
    I can't wait to see Conservatives: The Musical then!
    No, no, no! It should be PoliticalBetting.com: The Musical!
    That is Conservatives: The Musical, pretty much?
    Lots of choruses, sub-Lloyd Weber, a bit samey.
    Remind me, which party came up with this?

    The new standings orders state that any MP must "accept that no member shall within or outwith the parliament publicly criticise a group decision, policy or another member of the group".

    So the lots of choruses, much samey, really applies to the SNP not the Tories
    I'm glad that you accept that PB is just an arm of the Conservative party.
    Er, some of us voted Labour, you know!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    'The actions of a few damage our reputation. Scandals make good headlines.'

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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,124


    I don't accept that at all.

    But me saying that is probably cause for Nicola to call a second referendum I guess.

    It has about as much weight as Simon Cowell's claims to red-blooded masculinity.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    Actually a Sergeant move would be yet another disaster for Labour. An undefeated Corbyn who thinks he has the right to set the policy agenda for the party would be calamitous. Even the perception that this was the case would make the 2020 election a walk in the park for the tories.

    The sad truth, which Corbyn is so callously exposing, is that the gulf between what the average Labour member thinks and even those who vote Labour, let alone the rest of the country, has probably never been greater. The membership like him because he indulges their fantasies and supposed verities, verities that the public found to be disproven some time in the early 80s when Corbyn was first elected.

    I can understand the desire, even desperation, for the sane in Labour to find some excuse to bring this chaos to an end. By the time it is finished the next election may already be over.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323
    edited July 2015
    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    Hilariously mendacious, mischievous article from Matthew d'Ancona

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/26/smart-tories-labour-jeremy-corbyn-mania-david-cameron?CMP

    The Tories REALLY want Corbyn to win.
    The selections of Michael Foot and IDS did not shift politics to the Left or Right respectively.

    If Corbyn wins, that would only happen if the Tories lost their nerve, and decided they had to move left. And that would open up territory for UKIP.

    Difficult to "lose your nerve" against such an obvious loon as Corbyn.

    Quite apart from anything else, he will be so easily swiftboated. Just look at this:

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19841217&id=iP49AAAAIBAJ&sjid=Y0kMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3074,3464356&hl=en

    He really WAS a lover-of-Irish-terrorists and a sucker-up to violent Islamists.

    However "principled" he is, I reckon he'd get 23% at a General Election.
    He lacks Miliband's "wonkiness"
    He is articulate, unlike Miliband
    You can see yourself talking over a pint with him, unlike Miliband.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    Hilariously mendacious, mischievous article from Matthew d'Ancona

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/26/smart-tories-labour-jeremy-corbyn-mania-david-cameron?CMP

    The Tories REALLY want Corbyn to win.
    The selections of Michael Foot and IDS did not shift politics to the Left or Right respectively.

    If Corbyn wins, that would only happen if the Tories lost their nerve, and decided they had to move left. And that would open up territory for UKIP.

    Difficult to "lose your nerve" against such an obvious loon as Corbyn.

    Quite apart from anything else, he will be so easily swiftboated. Just look at this:

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19841217&id=iP49AAAAIBAJ&sjid=Y0kMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3074,3464356&hl=en

    He really WAS a lover-of-Irish-terrorists and a sucker-up to violent Islamists.

    However "principled" he is, I reckon he'd get 23% at a General Election.
    He might unite the Left, and get 33% or so, but at the expense of uniting the Right. He could push the Conservative vote above 40%, and/or make Conservative and UKIP voters vote tactically for the candidate best placed to beat Labour.

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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is riding a tiger of populist enthusiasm. It's too late for him to risk dismounting. The eruption of outrage from the rebels without a clue would be volcanic.

    True, but Jeremy Corbyn strikes me as the kind of politician who wouldn't give a f*** about that.

    This idea feels like a 6/1 shot - but if he's to withdraw before the ballot papers are printed he's only got about a week IIRC. Withdrawing after they're printed risks a truly magnificent spectacle.
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    FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243


    Still, Beeching left places like Redditch and Stratford-upon-Avon as branch lines even though they are geographically only a few miles apart.

    Luckily, quite a few railway lines have re-opened for public use (as opposed to preservation) in the last twenty years or so.

    Beeching was bound to make some mistakes, given the size of the task given him. Yet he only gave recommendations which the governments of the day chose to accept or ignore. It should also be remembered that the railway's mindset was very much about contraction, and less about traffic patterns fifty years in the future.

    And are you sure that aberration was down to Beeching? The railways had a big input into what was closed - hence my beloved Matlock to Buxton line closed when it was not even in the report, whilst the mid-Wales line was saved, allegedly because it served many Labour (i.e. government_ constituencies.

    Beeching gets too much bad press IMHO. He was given a difficult task, and did it reasonably well.
    Well, all of them are guilty of "Crimes against Our Railway Heritage"* :)
    (* copyright the Continuity Anti-Beeching Front)
    It's symbolic of the back to the 50's mindset that exposure to Corbynite has on people that they are all rabbiting on about the disaster that was British Rail. I'm waiting for the Bolting Bros and Peter Sellers to make an appearance.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is riding a tiger of populist enthusiasm. It's too late for him to risk dismounting. The eruption of outrage from the rebels without a clue would be volcanic.

    True, but Jeremy Corbyn strikes me as the kind of politician who wouldn't give a f*** about that.

    This idea feels like a 6/1 shot - but if he's to withdraw before the ballot papers are printed he's only got about a week IIRC. Withdrawing after they're printed risks a truly magnificent spectacle.
    Oh THAT would be immense. It would take the concept of shambles to a whole new level.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323


    Still, Beeching left places like Redditch and Stratford-upon-Avon as branch lines even though they are geographically only a few miles apart.

    Luckily, quite a few railway lines have re-opened for public use (as opposed to preservation) in the last twenty years or so.

    Beeching was bound to make some mistakes, given the size of the task given him. Yet he only gave recommendations which the governments of the day chose to accept or ignore. It should also be remembered that the railway's mindset was very much about contraction, and less about traffic patterns fifty years in the future.

    And are you sure that aberration was down to Beeching? The railways had a big input into what was closed - hence my beloved Matlock to Buxton line closed when it was not even in the report, whilst the mid-Wales line was saved, allegedly because it served many Labour (i.e. government_ constituencies.

    Beeching gets too much bad press IMHO. He was given a difficult task, and did it reasonably well.
    Well, all of them are guilty of "Crimes against Our Railway Heritage"* :)
    (* copyright the Continuity Anti-Beeching Front)
    It's symbolic of the back to the 50's mindset that exposure to Corbynite has on people that they are all rabbiting on about the disaster that was British Rail. I'm waiting for the Bolting Bros and Peter Sellers to make an appearance.
    And yet, British Rail's High Speed Trains first introduced in 1976 are still in use on East Coast main line, Cross Country services, East Midlands Trains, and on the Great Western.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    edited July 2015
    Since when has nationalisation/socialism been about representing the interests of the consumer? It is about the workers controlling the means of production, as the presumed best guarantee of ensuring equitable pay and conditions for said workers, isn't it? A guarantee produced because controlling the means of production implicitly means that production can be stopped through the withdrawal of labour.

    Still it was amusing to read that Corbyn's policies for renationalising industry is going to apparently be sourced directly from Marx! Marx having a particular insight into the workings of the Private Sector in a globalised 21st century.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,480
    edited July 2015

    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is riding a tiger of populist enthusiasm. It's too late for him to risk dismounting. The eruption of outrage from the rebels without a clue would be volcanic.

    True, but Jeremy Corbyn strikes me as the kind of politician who wouldn't give a f*** about that.

    This idea feels like a 6/1 shot - but if he's to withdraw before the ballot papers are printed he's only got about a week IIRC. Withdrawing after they're printed risks a truly magnificent spectacle.
    The Tories can't be that lucky. Surely?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,323

    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is riding a tiger of populist enthusiasm. It's too late for him to risk dismounting. The eruption of outrage from the rebels without a clue would be volcanic.

    True, but Jeremy Corbyn strikes me as the kind of politician who wouldn't give a f*** about that.

    This idea feels like a 6/1 shot - but if he's to withdraw before the ballot papers are printed he's only got about a week IIRC. Withdrawing after they're printed risks a truly magnificent spectacle.
    The Tories can't be that lucky. Surely?
    No :)
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Has anyone yet given any thought to the magnificent spectacle of what a Corbyn led Shadow Cabinet would look like?
  • Options
    FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    Hilariously mendacious, mischievous article from Matthew d'Ancona

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/26/smart-tories-labour-jeremy-corbyn-mania-david-cameron?CMP

    The Tories REALLY want Corbyn to win.
    The selections of Michael Foot and IDS did not shift politics to the Left or Right respectively.

    If Corbyn wins, that would only happen if the Tories lost their nerve, and decided they had to move left. And that would open up territory for UKIP.

    Difficult to "lose your nerve" against such an obvious loon as Corbyn.

    Quite apart from anything else, he will be so easily swiftboated. Just look at this:

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19841217&id=iP49AAAAIBAJ&sjid=Y0kMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3074,3464356&hl=en

    He really WAS a lover-of-Irish-terrorists and a sucker-up to violent Islamists.

    However "principled" he is, I reckon he'd get 23% at a General Election.
    He lacks Miliband's "wonkiness"
    He is articulate, unlike Miliband
    You can see yourself talking over a pint with him, unlike Miliband.
    You have become a joke. Talk over a pint? With that loon? I doubt anyone human would get past the Martin in McGuinness - never mind the General in Galtieri.
    Why would anyone want to risk wasting their money over him? As for voting?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    alex. said:

    Has anyone yet given any thought to the magnificent spectacle of what a Corbyn led Shadow Cabinet would look like?

    https://twitter.com/carlmaxim/status/624124491128553472
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    HYUFD said:

    CNN/ORC- General Election vs. Clinton

    Registered Voters
    Clinton 51% (54%)
    Bush 46% (41%)

    Clinton 53% (57%)
    Walker 44% (40%)

    Clinton 56% (59%)
    Trump 40% (35%)

    Adults
    Clinton 51% (54%)
    Bush 46% (41%)

    Clinton 54% (57%)
    Walker 43% (38%)

    Clinton 57% (59%)
    Trump 38% (34%)

    Registered Voters
    Bush 48%
    Sanders 47%

    Sanders 48%
    Walkers 43%

    Sanders 59%
    Trump 38%

    Adults
    Sanders 48%
    Bush 47%

    Sanders 48%
    Walker 42%

    Sanders 58%
    Trump 38%
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2179399-cnn-orc-poll-2016-election-9-a-m-july-26-2015.html

    Wow - if Sanders has almost as good a chance of winning a General Election as Clinton, then that pretty much takes away the one and only argument for the latter. We really could be looking at a 2008 replay here.
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    MikeL said:

    I'm amazed so many Conservatives are cheering on Corbyn.

    Sure it seems like a joke and sure it'll probably help Con win in 2020.

    But who knows? Once you set a ball in motion there is no way of knowing where things will end up.

    99% of people think Corbyn would lose GE 2020. But a few weeks ago 99% of people thought he had zero chance of becoming Lab leader.

    Is it not a terrifying prospect that we may be just 5 years from Britain heading right back to the disastrous days of the 1970s?

    Sure it may seem unlikely. But why even risk the chance of it?

    The risk of your house burning down is tiny but you still insure it.

    This demonization of Corbyn by the right-wingers can only mean one thing - they are worried about him.
    Hilariously mendacious, mischievous article from Matthew d'Ancona

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/26/smart-tories-labour-jeremy-corbyn-mania-david-cameron?CMP

    The Tories REALLY want Corbyn to win.
    The selections of Michael Foot and IDS did not shift politics to the Left or Right respectively.

    If Corbyn wins, that would only happen if the Tories lost their nerve, and decided they had to move left. And that would open up territory for UKIP.

    Difficult to "lose your nerve" against such an obvious loon as Corbyn.

    Quite apart from anything else, he will be so easily swiftboated. Just look at this:

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19841217&id=iP49AAAAIBAJ&sjid=Y0kMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3074,3464356&hl=en

    He really WAS a lover-of-Irish-terrorists and a sucker-up to violent Islamists.

    However "principled" he is, I reckon he'd get 23% at a General Election.
    He lacks Miliband's "wonkiness"
    He is articulate, unlike Miliband
    You can see yourself talking over a pint with him, unlike Miliband.
    You have become a joke. Talk over a pint? With that loon? I doubt anyone human would get past the Martin in McGuinness - never mind the General in Galtieri.
    Why would anyone want to risk wasting their money over him? As for voting?
    Ken Livingstone came up with this claim the other day. One small problem with it. Corbyn's teetotal ;)
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Outstanding piece Tissue. Perhaps one of the best I can remember written on pbCOM.
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