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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This afternoon what’s only the eighth GE2020 voting intenti

SystemSystem Posts: 12,219
edited July 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This afternoon what’s only the eighth GE2020 voting intention poll since May 7th

LDs in double figures in first VI poll following Farron's election as leader. See Ipsos-MORI July poll pic.twitter.com/OtOC8j6CwZ

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Comments

  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    First?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,984
    This Labour leadership election is getting very dirty

    Labour MP John Mann says leadership contender Mr Corbyn "did nothing" about allegations of child abuse in Islington in 1980s

    Jeremy Corbyn, the hard-left Labour MP who is tipped to lead the party, has been accused of "doing nothing" over allegations of child abuse in his constituency during the 1980s.

    Islington council has paid hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation to victims following widespread sexual abuse in the London borough in the 1970s and 1980s. It is thought dozens of vulnerable children were abused by a number of paedophiles.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11758612/Jeremy-Corbyn-accused-of-inaction-over-paedophile-scandal.html
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,780
    Ouch.. thats dirty fighting.. someone is worried.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    FPT: Mr. Eagles, indeed.

    I wonder what impact such a serious claim will have. Might make Corbyn's supporters dig their heels in, if they feel it's a false claim made solely to deprive him of the leadership.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    I think Labour would get convincingly thumped if there was an election tommorow.

    Vote shares for UKIP vs LD vs Green vs SNP would be interesting though.

    Are the young'uns being correctly downweighted for Green and Labour yet ?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,335

    Ouch.. thats dirty fighting.. someone is worried.

    Why is it dirty? It's a legitimate question to ask: was he told and, if so, what did he do? After all, Labour (Tom Watson, likely Labour Deputy Leader) has not been shy about accusing Tories of turning a blind eye to alleged child abuse by senior Tories. We have seen the results of inaction by those in a position to do something in Rotherham, Rochdale and elsewhere.

    Turning a blind eye to criminality doesn't just occur in banks you know. And if people want to present themselves as on the side of the vulnerable then we're entitled to ask questions about what that has meant in practice.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,984
    Just had a look at John Mann's Twitter feed.

    I'm speechless and that seldom happens.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Interesting. We now have three NOTA parties all polling similar shares around 8-10%.

    Will a Corbyn led Labour party join them?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    Worth noting we've had a Budget - several million people have been told they will lose approx £1,000 to £1,500 in tax credits - and the Con lead is still the same as at the GE.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    This Labour leadership election is getting very dirty

    Labour MP John Mann says leadership contender Mr Corbyn "did nothing" about allegations of child abuse in Islington in 1980s

    Jeremy Corbyn, the hard-left Labour MP who is tipped to lead the party, has been accused of "doing nothing" over allegations of child abuse in his constituency during the 1980s.

    Islington council has paid hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation to victims following widespread sexual abuse in the London borough in the 1970s and 1980s. It is thought dozens of vulnerable children were abused by a number of paedophiles.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11758612/Jeremy-Corbyn-accused-of-inaction-over-paedophile-scandal.html

    John Mann will have to be careful with this - as it goes wider within the London Labour movement. Margaret Hodge was running Islington at that time IIRC - and other party names were certainly around.
  • franklynfranklyn Posts: 322
    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    Just had a look at John Mann's Twitter feed.

    I'm speechless and that seldom happens.

    I've had a look. What are you seeing that I'm not?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    I'm not sure ministers can have a vote of confidence as they are appointed at her majesty's pleasure.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,984

    Just had a look at John Mann's Twitter feed.

    I'm speechless and that seldom happens.

    I've had a look. What are you seeing that I'm not?
    Some of the replies to his tweets.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    "Labour MP John Mann says leadership contender Mr Corbyn "did nothing" about allegations of child abuse in Islington in 1980s"


    Impeccable timing - Is John Mann a Blairite perchance?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,335

    FPT: Mr. Eagles, indeed.

    I wonder what impact such a serious claim will have. Might make Corbyn's supporters dig their heels in, if they feel it's a false claim made solely to deprive him of the leadership.

    I have no idea whether Corbyn turned a blind eye or not. But given the reach of the Lowell inquiry, there will likely be lots of people who will be asked why they ignored what was going on under their noses and this will cut across party boundaries.

    At any event, being negligent should not be a bar to further advancement within Labour: after all the sainted Blair made Margaret Hodge Minister for Children even after her appalling record as leader of Islington Council when the abuse was happening was well known.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited July 2015

    This Labour leadership election is getting very dirty

    Labour MP John Mann says leadership contender Mr Corbyn "did nothing" about allegations of child abuse in Islington in 1980s

    Jeremy Corbyn, the hard-left Labour MP who is tipped to lead the party, has been accused of "doing nothing" over allegations of child abuse in his constituency during the 1980s.

    Islington council has paid hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation to victims following widespread sexual abuse in the London borough in the 1970s and 1980s. It is thought dozens of vulnerable children were abused by a number of paedophiles.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11758612/Jeremy-Corbyn-accused-of-inaction-over-paedophile-scandal.html

    Smear-tastic.....John Mann is the worst kind of MP.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    I am signee 176,924
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    John Mann to Jeremy Corbyn:

    "You inadvertently helped the rubbishing and the cover up of all of the Dickens allegations. Indeed your actions encouraged others, because a week later the Islington Gazette published a letter attacking Geoffrey Dickens over his allegations from Roger Moody, a prominent pro paedophilia activist."

    http://www.mann4bassetlaw.com/an_open_letter_to_jeremy_corbyn_on_child_abuse
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    Why? Jeremy Hunt is an elected representative of the government that has just been returned to power in a General Election, with an overall majority, by the people who voted on a manifesto that included a commitment to a 24/7 NHS.

    The government has a mandate to implement that policy, most people want it, and he's been appointed to carry it out as a government minister.

    He absolutely should be pursuing it with full vigour as the government was elected to do.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Plato said:
    Does Mann ever focus on representing his constituents? Or does he just spend his time promoting himself?

    The letter is a classic smear tactic. Cheap work
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    This Labour leadership election is getting very dirty

    Labour MP John Mann says leadership contender Mr Corbyn "did nothing" about allegations of child abuse in Islington in 1980s

    Jeremy Corbyn, the hard-left Labour MP who is tipped to lead the party, has been accused of "doing nothing" over allegations of child abuse in his constituency during the 1980s.

    Islington council has paid hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation to victims following widespread sexual abuse in the London borough in the 1970s and 1980s. It is thought dozens of vulnerable children were abused by a number of paedophiles.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11758612/Jeremy-Corbyn-accused-of-inaction-over-paedophile-scandal.html

    Smear-tastic.....John Mann is the worst kind of MP.
    I wonder what he makes of Labour council leader Margaret Hodge, and sometime councillor during the seventies Jack Straw...
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Could this election get any better?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Miss Cyclefree, indeed, I was only commentating on the potential reaction of those who currently support Corbyn's leadership aspirations.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Paris, Andy Burnham could be revealed to secretly be Andy Miliband.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533

    This Labour leadership election is getting very dirty

    Labour MP John Mann says leadership contender Mr Corbyn "did nothing" about allegations of child abuse in Islington in 1980s

    Jeremy Corbyn, the hard-left Labour MP who is tipped to lead the party, has been accused of "doing nothing" over allegations of child abuse in his constituency during the 1980s.

    Islington council has paid hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation to victims following widespread sexual abuse in the London borough in the 1970s and 1980s. It is thought dozens of vulnerable children were abused by a number of paedophiles.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11758612/Jeremy-Corbyn-accused-of-inaction-over-paedophile-scandal.html

    Smear-tastic.....John Mann is the worst kind of MP.
    I wonder what he makes of Labour council leader Margaret Hodge, and sometime councillor during the seventies Jack Straw...
    Can add Keith Vaz, Harman, Dromey etc to that list as well. The scandals are ticking time bombs and no party will will be able to claim the moral high ground.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    This Labour leadership election is getting very dirty

    Labour MP John Mann says leadership contender Mr Corbyn "did nothing" about allegations of child abuse in Islington in 1980s

    Jeremy Corbyn, the hard-left Labour MP who is tipped to lead the party, has been accused of "doing nothing" over allegations of child abuse in his constituency during the 1980s.

    Islington council has paid hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation to victims following widespread sexual abuse in the London borough in the 1970s and 1980s. It is thought dozens of vulnerable children were abused by a number of paedophiles.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11758612/Jeremy-Corbyn-accused-of-inaction-over-paedophile-scandal.html

    John Mann will have to be careful with this - as it goes wider within the London Labour movement. Margaret Hodge was running Islington at that time IIRC - and other party names were certainly around.
    The child abuse inquiry really needs to investigate all areas of the public sector and their response to it. Apparently Theresa May is saying the Westminster inquiry won't look at the Northern Ireland abuse ring, leaving that to a separate NI inquiry, but that inquiry doesn't have the power to compel witnesses...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533

    Plato said:
    Does Mann ever focus on representing his constituents? Or does he just spend his time promoting himself?

    The letter is a classic smear tactic. Cheap work
    I will never forget him having some of the top brass from the banks infront of a select committee, and he used his questions to grill the top bod about issues with his current account. I mean

    1) Do you think the top man knows the ins and outs of your current account

    2) Do you think the public care

    3) What about what the public do care about.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    It's beyond my wildest imagination. And I thought we'd be scratching around for stuff to discuss in July!

    How can August top this fest?

    Could this election get any better?

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited July 2015
    Disraeli said:

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    I am signee 176,924
    I wonder how many of those signatures actually read the full speech he made that set this whole outcry off. Because I have, and he didn't say what most people think he said...and I don't care that much for Hunt.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    Just had a look at John Mann's Twitter feed.

    I'm speechless and that seldom happens.

    I've had a look. What are you seeing that I'm not?
    Some of the replies to his tweets.
    Had a look at those and couldn't see anything special, but I'm not a Twitter user.

    Link?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Seriously?!

    What a numpty.

    Plato said:
    Does Mann ever focus on representing his constituents? Or does he just spend his time promoting himself?

    The letter is a classic smear tactic. Cheap work
    I will never forget him having some of the top brass from the banks infront of a select committee, and he used his questions to grill the top bod about issues with his current account. I mean

    1) Do you think the top man knows the ins and outs of your current account

    2) Do you think the public care

    3) What about what the public do care about.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. Urquhart, truth often comes second place to PR. Not many people know Caesar committed genocide against the Germanians, for example.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,984

    Just had a look at John Mann's Twitter feed.

    I'm speechless and that seldom happens.

    I've had a look. What are you seeing that I'm not?
    Some of the replies to his tweets.
    Had a look at those and couldn't see anything special, but I'm not a Twitter user.

    Link?
    @roadcustard: @JohnMannMP a red tory trying desperately to concoct a smear campaign need to join the tories. Tabloid politics from mann the red tory

    There's some others that Mike won't appreciate being repeated on PB
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045

    Just had a look at John Mann's Twitter feed.

    I'm speechless and that seldom happens.

    I've had a look. What are you seeing that I'm not?
    Some of the replies to his tweets.
    Had a look at those and couldn't see anything special, but I'm not a Twitter user.

    Link?
    @roadcustard: @JohnMannMP a red tory trying desperately to concoct a smear campaign need to join the tories. Tabloid politics from mann the red tory

    There's some others that Mike won't appreciate being repeated on PB
    Telling how the greatest attack is to be called a Tory.

    Now, where are those babies.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2015
    From a look down his Twitter replies - TBH, I don't think they're too bad.

    Quite a lot of accusations that he's a Tory, that only right-wing people are paedos [this includes Labour people who are right-wing...], whataboutery and a dozen or so questioning his smearing now.
    RobD said:

    Just had a look at John Mann's Twitter feed.

    I'm speechless and that seldom happens.

    I've had a look. What are you seeing that I'm not?
    Some of the replies to his tweets.
    Had a look at those and couldn't see anything special, but I'm not a Twitter user.

    Link?
    @roadcustard: @JohnMannMP a red tory trying desperately to concoct a smear campaign need to join the tories. Tabloid politics from mann the red tory

    There's some others that Mike won't appreciate being repeated on PB
    Telling how the greatest attack is to be called a Tory.

    Now, where are those babies.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    a tawdry spam advert from a vested interest - ugh. Take it to signalmyvirtue.com
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690
    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    It is entirely about politics and about sad idiots who can't accept the fact that the Tories won a majority and so can pursue their agenda as they see fit so long as they can command a majority in the Hoc.

    It doesn't matter how many people sign the petition. They will not overturn a democratically elected Government (who just for the record I did not vote for and do not support).
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    The NHS is about patients not the workforce.
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243
    TGOHF said:

    The NHS is about patients not the workforce.

    lts about politics. The policy is about making the NHS more efficient. Health costs and demands are rising astronomically.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2015
    The problem with Mann's attack is that if there were any child sex scandals in his constituency since he was elected, then his detractors can pin him on them.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Has Corbyn issued a writ yet?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Imagine an NHS entirely staffed by robots which gave far better health outcomes - this brainstrust would oppose it because nurses would lose their jobs.

  • franklynfranklyn Posts: 322

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    It is entirely about politics and about sad idiots who can't accept the fact that the Tories won a majority and so can pursue their agenda as they see fit so long as they can command a majority in the Hoc.

    It doesn't matter how many people sign the petition. They will not overturn a democratically elected Government (who just for the record I did not vote for and do not support).
    I am a Conservative voter, and a party member, but, and I say this as someone who started work in the NHS as a lab assistant in 1969, was a medical student 1969-75 and then a doctor 1975-present, that Hunt has taken on a unique position in antagonizing the workforce; he has shown himself as the worst Health Minister (and I have been through quite a number) in the last 46 years. I fully support reform. I support the Conservative party, but I cannot support the ignorant and aggressive style of this man.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    Just had a look at John Mann's Twitter feed.

    I'm speechless and that seldom happens.

    I've had a look. What are you seeing that I'm not?
    Some of the replies to his tweets.
    Had a look at those and couldn't see anything special, but I'm not a Twitter user.

    Link?
    @roadcustard: @JohnMannMP a red tory trying desperately to concoct a smear campaign need to join the tories. Tabloid politics from mann the red tory

    There's some others that Mike won't appreciate being repeated on PB
    Seems par for the course to me. Not sure that's anything I haven't seen before on Twitter and seen worse on CiF.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2015
    dr_spyn said:

    Has Corbyn issued a writ yet?

    I think he can shrug Mann off by equally pointing that if he is responsible for that sex scandal simply because he is the local MP, then John Mann is equally responsible for the sex scandals in Bassetlaw, like this one:

    http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/dogging-scandal-at-clumber-1-638210

    No writs needed, just humour at the face of absurdity.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    John Mann's intervention tells you everything you need to know about the febrile nature of today's Labour party.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    franklyn said:

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    It is entirely about politics and about sad idiots who can't accept the fact that the Tories won a majority and so can pursue their agenda as they see fit so long as they can command a majority in the Hoc.

    It doesn't matter how many people sign the petition. They will not overturn a democratically elected Government (who just for the record I did not vote for and do not support).
    I am a Conservative voter, and a party member, but, and I say this as someone who started work in the NHS as a lab assistant in 1969, was a medical student 1969-75 and then a doctor 1975-present, that Hunt has taken on a unique position in antagonizing the workforce; he has shown himself as the worst Health Minister (and I have been through quite a number) in the last 46 years. I fully support reform. I support the Conservative party, but I cannot support the ignorant and aggressive style of this man.
    You don't like him because he's requiring doctors to work more unsocial hours to provide a more convenient service for the general public. Why don't you just be honest rather than blaming it on something so meaningless as "style"?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Pulpstar said:

    I think Labour would get convincingly thumped if there was an election tommorow.

    Vote shares for UKIP vs LD vs Green vs SNP would be interesting though.

    Are the young'uns being correctly downweighted for Green and Labour yet ?

    I have two friends, both under 35s, who both have PhDs in Maths and are very engaged in (left-wing) politics on facebook and Twitter, but do not vote. They cannot justify it mathematically and come up with all sorts of analysis as to why, but say they would if they knew their vote would decide the outcome by tipping it over from a tie.

    They are logically not inconsistent, but they are also very wrong.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,335
    franklyn said:

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    It is entirely about politics and about sad idiots who can't accept the fact that the Tories won a majority and so can pursue their agenda as they see fit so long as they can command a majority in the Hoc.

    It doesn't matter how many people sign the petition. They will not overturn a democratically elected Government (who just for the record I did not vote for and do not support).
    I am a Conservative voter, and a party member, but, and I say this as someone who started work in the NHS as a lab assistant in 1969, was a medical student 1969-75 and then a doctor 1975-present, that Hunt has taken on a unique position in antagonizing the workforce; he has shown himself as the worst Health Minister (and I have been through quite a number) in the last 46 years. I fully support reform. I support the Conservative party, but I cannot support the ignorant and aggressive style of this man.
    More aggressive than Ken Clarke? Really?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    franklyn said:

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    It is entirely about politics and about sad idiots who can't accept the fact that the Tories won a majority and so can pursue their agenda as they see fit so long as they can command a majority in the Hoc.

    It doesn't matter how many people sign the petition. They will not overturn a democratically elected Government (who just for the record I did not vote for and do not support).
    I am a Conservative voter, and a party member, but, and I say this as someone who started work in the NHS as a lab assistant in 1969, was a medical student 1969-75 and then a doctor 1975-present, that Hunt has taken on a unique position in antagonizing the workforce; he has shown himself as the worst Health Minister (and I have been through quite a number) in the last 46 years. I fully support reform. I support the Conservative party, but I cannot support the ignorant and aggressive style of this man.
    No mention of patients again.

    It really isn't all about you.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,335
    antifrank said:

    John Mann's intervention tells you everything you need to know about the febrile nature of today's Labour party.

    Whoever wins is going to need the wisdom of Solomon and dollops of emotional intelligence to bring the party together.

    Oh dear!

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    franklyn said:

    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.

    Good will? Are you having a laugh? Labour stuffed their mouths with gold. If the staff don't like what they're being asked to do, go and get another job. If it's as bad as the critics are saying it is, then the NHS will suffer and so will the Tories. But time and again the left cry wolf over the NHS - eventually the electorate figure it out.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited July 2015
    antifrank said:

    John Mann's intervention tells you everything you need to know about the febrile nature of today's Labour party.

    Labour's 'feral' nature would be more appropriate..!
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    antifrank said:

    John Mann's intervention tells you everything you need to know about the febrile nature of today's Labour party.

    Labour's feral nature would be more appropriate..!
    John Mann strikes me as the modern equivalent of a Geoffrey Dickens or Peter Brunievals. ie a less than talented bullshiter who can't resist a microphone, and the media knows it.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11758612/Jeremy-Corbyn-accused-of-inaction-over-paedophile-scandal.html

    And yet his own constituency party never mentioned it before re-selecting him.. and why is John Mann suddenly raising it now.. its not as tho this is an old story..

    Apols if already discussed in a hurry and saw it..
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Plato said:
    Wow. Carefully written does not do that justice.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    Cyclefree said:

    antifrank said:

    John Mann's intervention tells you everything you need to know about the febrile nature of today's Labour party.

    Whoever wins is going to need the wisdom of Solomon and dollops of emotional intelligence to bring the party together.

    Oh dear!

    Right now you go away for a few hours and then tune back to see Labour digging itself into a deeper hole.

    Let's hope it's cathartic.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11758612/Jeremy-Corbyn-accused-of-inaction-over-paedophile-scandal.html

    And yet his own constituency party never mentioned it before re-selecting him.. and why is John Mann suddenly raising it now.. its not as tho this is an old story..

    Apols if already discussed in a hurry and saw it..

    OH.. and who was leader of the Islington Council when all this was happening
  • franklynfranklyn Posts: 322
    JEO said:

    franklyn said:

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    It is entirely about politics and about sad idiots who can't accept the fact that the Tories won a majority and so can pursue their agenda as they see fit so long as they can command a majority in the Hoc.

    It doesn't matter how many people sign the petition. They will not overturn a democratically elected Government (who just for the record I did not vote for and do not support).
    I am a Conservative voter, and a party member, but, and I say this as someone who started work in the NHS as a lab assistant in 1969, was a medical student 1969-75 and then a doctor 1975-present, that Hunt has taken on a unique position in antagonizing the workforce; he has shown himself as the worst Health Minister (and I have been through quite a number) in the last 46 years. I fully support reform. I support the Conservative party, but I cannot support the ignorant and aggressive style of this man.
    You don't like him because he's requiring doctors to work more unsocial hours to provide a more convenient service for the general public. Why don't you just be honest rather than blaming it on something so meaningless as "style"?
    I still recall long shifts; like coming on duty on a Friday morning and not leaving the hospital till the following Monday evening (or the time, when covering sick leave, I didn't leave the hospital for 16 days); catching the odd moments of sleep with the bleep next to your ear, or trying not to go to the loo while you had the cardiac arrest bleep, and with overtime paid at 30% of your basic rate. And my hourly rate is still 15% of what I get when I see private patients or do medico-legal work.
    So please don't talk nonsense
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2015

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11758612/Jeremy-Corbyn-accused-of-inaction-over-paedophile-scandal.html

    And yet his own constituency party never mentioned it before re-selecting him.. and why is John Mann suddenly raising it now.. its not as tho this is an old story..

    Apols if already discussed in a hurry and saw it..

    OH.. and who was leader of the Islington Council when all this was happening
    Margaret Hodge MP for Barking.
    One of the few supporters of Liz Kendall.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690
    franklyn said:

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    It is entirely about politics and about sad idiots who can't accept the fact that the Tories won a majority and so can pursue their agenda as they see fit so long as they can command a majority in the Hoc.

    It doesn't matter how many people sign the petition. They will not overturn a democratically elected Government (who just for the record I did not vote for and do not support).
    I am a Conservative voter, and a party member, but, and I say this as someone who started work in the NHS as a lab assistant in 1969, was a medical student 1969-75 and then a doctor 1975-present, that Hunt has taken on a unique position in antagonizing the workforce; he has shown himself as the worst Health Minister (and I have been through quite a number) in the last 46 years. I fully support reform. I support the Conservative party, but I cannot support the ignorant and aggressive style of this man.
    Yet another NHS worker who seems to think the workforce are more important than the patients.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,335
    Speedy said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11758612/Jeremy-Corbyn-accused-of-inaction-over-paedophile-scandal.html

    And yet his own constituency party never mentioned it before re-selecting him.. and why is John Mann suddenly raising it now.. its not as tho this is an old story..

    Apols if already discussed in a hurry and saw it..

    OH.. and who was leader of the Islington Council when all this was happening
    Margaret Hodge MP for Barking.
    One of the few supporters of Liz Kendall.
    And Minister for Children under the first Blair government. Oh, the irony!

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    franklyn said:

    JEO said:

    franklyn said:

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    It is entirely about politics and about sad idiots who can't accept the fact that the Tories won a majority and so can pursue their agenda as they see fit so long as they can command a majority in the Hoc.

    It doesn't matter how many people sign the petition. They will not overturn a democratically elected Government (who just for the record I did not vote for and do not support).
    I am a Conservative voter, and a party member, but, and I say this as someone who started work in the NHS as a lab assistant in 1969, was a medical student 1969-75 and then a doctor 1975-present, that Hunt has taken on a unique position in antagonizing the workforce; he has shown himself as the worst Health Minister (and I have been through quite a number) in the last 46 years. I fully support reform. I support the Conservative party, but I cannot support the ignorant and aggressive style of this man.
    You don't like him because he's requiring doctors to work more unsocial hours to provide a more convenient service for the general public. Why don't you just be honest rather than blaming it on something so meaningless as "style"?
    I still recall long shifts; like coming on duty on a Friday morning and not leaving the hospital till the following Monday evening (or the time, when covering sick leave, I didn't leave the hospital for 16 days); catching the odd moments of sleep with the bleep next to your ear, or trying not to go to the loo while you had the cardiac arrest bleep, and with overtime paid at 30% of your basic rate. And my hourly rate is still 15% of what I get when I see private patients or do medico-legal work.
    So please don't talk nonsense
    So why did you do it? If it was as bad as you say then surely you'd want to look for another job, or were you doing it because you thought it would put you in good stead for promotion later in your career (i.e. we all had to do it).

    During the 2011 Census I worked some very long hours, but that was the nature of the job and I was going to do what was necessary. The point is, lots of professions are required to work long hours, not just doctors.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    franklyn said:

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    It is entirely about politics and about sad idiots who can't accept the fact that the Tories won a majority and so can pursue their agenda as they see fit so long as they can command a majority in the Hoc.

    It doesn't matter how many people sign the petition. They will not overturn a democratically elected Government (who just for the record I did not vote for and do not support).
    I am a Conservative voter, and a party member, but, and I say this as someone who started work in the NHS as a lab assistant in 1969, was a medical student 1969-75 and then a doctor 1975-present, that Hunt has taken on a unique position in antagonizing the workforce; he has shown himself as the worst Health Minister (and I have been through quite a number) in the last 46 years. I fully support reform. I support the Conservative party, but I cannot support the ignorant and aggressive style of this man.
    Yet another NHS worker who seems to think the workforce are more important than the patients.
    You seem to imply that 48 hour shifts for medical staff is somehow good for patients. Don't see it myself.

    I suspect that the medical profession is not being as patient-minded as it needs to be, but it is also true that good patient care efficiently provided can only be expected once management and staff agree on how to deliver that. If the two sides go to war, it is guaranteed that patient care will suffer.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,966
    PClipp said:

    First?

    That must be a novelty....
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    edited July 2015

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    Why? Jeremy Hunt is an elected representative of the government that has just been returned to power in a General Election, with an overall majority, by the people who voted on a manifesto that included a commitment to a 24/7 NHS.

    The government has a mandate to implement that policy, most people want it, and he's been appointed to carry it out as a government minister.

    He absolutely should be pursuing it with full vigour as the government was elected to do.
    This isn't about reality. This is about left wing activists having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and always has been, dependent on the hard earned money of tax payers, who, you know, would like it to be better.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,335
    franklyn said:

    JEO said:

    franklyn said:

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334

    It is entirely about politics and about sad idiots who can't accept the fact that the Tories won a majority and so can pursue their agenda as they see fit so long as they can command a majority in the Hoc.

    It doesn't matter how many people sign the petition. They will not overturn a democratically elected Government (who just for the record I did not vote for and do not support).
    I am a Conservative voter, and a party member, but, and I say this as someone who started work in the NHS as a lab assistant in 1969, was a medical student 1969-75 and then a doctor 1975-present, that Hunt has taken on a unique position in antagonizing the workforce; he has shown himself as the worst Health Minister (and I have been through quite a number) in the last 46 years. I fully support reform. I support the Conservative party, but I cannot support the ignorant and aggressive style of this man.
    You don't like him because he's requiring doctors to work more unsocial hours to provide a more convenient service for the general public. Why don't you just be honest rather than blaming it on something so meaningless as "style"?
    I still recall long shifts; like coming on duty on a Friday morning and not leaving the hospital till the following Monday evening (or the time, when covering sick leave, I didn't leave the hospital for 16 days); catching the odd moments of sleep with the bleep next to your ear, or trying not to go to the loo while you had the cardiac arrest bleep, and with overtime paid at 30% of your basic rate. And my hourly rate is still 15% of what I get when I see private patients or do medico-legal work.
    So please don't talk nonsense
    No-one denies that doctors and other health service professionals work hard in sometimes very stressful conditions.

    But at the moment we have the Tories talking about making the health service operate well 7 days a week so that your risk of dying does not increase if you become sick over the weekend.

    And Labour and health service staff talking about how difficult / expensive it all is etc. And they may have a point.

    But one group is talking about doing something for patients. And the other sound as if they're more bothered about their own position.

    That may be unfair but that is how they risk coming across. I doubt for instance that many taxpayers are going to be tremendously upset at the fact that in the NHS you only earn 15% of what you can earn outside it. Most people don't have the chance to do this in their jobs. Or their contracts forbid it.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    maaarsh said:

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    Why? Jeremy Hunt is an elected representative of the government that has just been returned to power in a General Election, with an overall majority, by the people who voted on a manifesto that included a commitment to a 24/7 NHS.

    The government has a mandate to implement that policy, most people want it, and he's been appointed to carry it out as a government minister.

    He absolutely should be pursuing it with full vigour as the government was elected to do.
    This isn't about reality. This is about left wing activists having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and always has been, dependent on the hard earned money of tax payers, who, you know, would like it to be better.
    People have a right to negotiate with their employers, don't they? Even if one-third of voters supported a different negotiating position.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FPT @SeanT

    MrT: I have just paid the princely sum of $26 for your book: I think you owe me a drink.

    edit: just saw your 3:08 post. It was out-of-stock at the first B&N I tried; the second one had it, but they struggled to find it (wasn't on the shelf where it should be and had to get it out of the back). Not sure if that is a good sign or not!
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    I'm a Labour supporter and I have to say there's a part of me that's beginning to enjoy this. Where will it end? Victory in 2020 is one possibility that we can rule out for now.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    tlg86 said:

    franklyn said:

    JEO said:

    franklyn said:

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it<

    You don't like him because he's requiring doctors to work more unsocial hours to provide a more convenient service for the general public. Why don't you just be honest rather than blaming it on something so meaningless as "style"?

    I still recall long shifts; like coming on duty on a Friday morning and not leaving the hospital till the following Monday evening (or the time, when covering sick leave, I didn't leave the hospital for 16 days); catching the odd moments of sleep with the bleep next to your ear, or trying not to go to the loo while you had the cardiac arrest bleep, and with overtime paid at 30% of
    So why did you do it? If it was as bad as you say then surely you'd want to look for another job, or were you doing it because you thought it would put you in good stead for promotion later in your career (i.e. we all had to do it).

    During the 2011 Census I worked some very long hours, but that was the nature of the job and I was going to do what was necessary. The point is, lots of professions are required to work long hours, not just doctors.
    They do it, generally, because of a degree of dedication to the principles: having seen it on both sides of the fence, I do think that NHS managers, who are not very good, struggle to deal with people who are leagues ahead of them in intelligence and, often, EQ. I would note that Franklyn is an older generation (he qualified a couple of years after my father) and I do feel that there been a change of work ethic, certainly amongst GPs. That's partially down to more than 50% or medical students being female with a consequent change in approach to working hours (yes, I appreciate one can point t individuals but that's a wider trend point ). I'd be genuinely interested in Franklyns view on whether that is a resolvable issue or indeed whether I am talking out of my arse.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    ***DISCLAIMER - I AM NOT A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL***
    Staffing levels in the NHS are not matched to demand. As Foxinsoxuk (a medic himself) has explained many times on PB, the NHS is losing disturbingly high numbers of medical staff, particularly to the US and Australia.
    The gap is being filled by immigrants.

    Number of foreign GPs working in the NHS increases by 11% in decade - and will continue to rise due to shortage of doctors
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3021849/Number-foreign-GPs-working-NHS-increases-decade-continue-rise-shortage-doctors.html

    The argument that "if you don't like it then go and do something else" is spurious. It's human nature to fight to improve your present lot, rather than gamble on something new. It's not easy to switch careers, especially in the professions. There's also the pull of the fulfilment of being in a vocation with some jobs. (e.g Teachers)
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    p.s. Who would have thought that John Mann could write so well?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    For those looking for a good read for the evening, a double feature:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/23/trump-s-mobbed-up-mccarthyite-mentor.html

    "They met at Le Club, a private disco on the Upper East Side frequented by Jackie Kennedy, Al Pacino, and Diana Ross, according to Trump: The Saga of America’s Most Powerful Real Estate Baron. Donald Trump, the young developer, quickly amassing a fortune in New York real estate and Roy Cohn, America’s most loathed yet socially successful defense attorney who had vaulted to infamy in the 1950s while serving as legal counsel to Sen. Joseph McCarthy."


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/23/how-thatcher-s-mi5-spy-chief-protected-a-pedophile-member-of-parliament.html

    "The head of Britain’s MI5 domestic intelligence service told the Thatcher government that a pedophile MP was operating in the House of Commons but suggested a plot to cover up his “penchant for small boys” in order to avoid political embarrassment.

    It was a plan the government was only too happy to accept."
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Private GP surgeries seem to be burgeoning. I googled the other day and there seem to be plenty of options.
  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    If the Labour party, or this country, completely lose it's marbles and elect Jeremy Corbyn, then this man will be responsible for keeping this country safe. He will have access to and be briefed on 'intelligence matters'.

    Needless to say, I leave that happy thought with you!!
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    franklyn said:

    JEO said:

    franklyn said:

    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    It is entirely about politics and about sad idiots who can't accept the fact that the Tories won a majority and so can pursue their agenda as they see fit so long as they can command a majority in the Hoc.

    It doesn't matter how many people sign the petition. They will not overturn a democratically elected Government (who just for the record I did not vote for and do not support).
    I am a Conservative voter, and a party member, but, and I say this as someone who started work in the NHS as a lab assistant in 1969, was a medical student 1969-75 and then a doctor 1975-present, that Hunt has taken on a unique position in antagonizing the workforce; he has shown himself as the worst Health Minister (and I have been through quite a number) in the last 46 years. I fully support reform. I support the Conservative party, but I cannot support the ignorant and aggressive style of this man.
    You don't like him because he's requiring doctors to work more unsocial hours to provide a more convenient service for the general public. Why don't you just be honest rather than blaming it on something so meaningless as "style"?
    I still recall long shifts; like coming on duty on a Friday morning and not leaving the hospital till the following Monday evening (or the time, when covering sick leave, I didn't leave the hospital for 16 days); catching the odd moments of sleep with the bleep next to your ear, or trying not to go to the loo while you had the cardiac arrest bleep, and with overtime paid at 30% of your basic rate. And my hourly rate is still 15% of what I get when I see private patients or do medico-legal work.
    So please don't talk nonsense
    Nothing you said contradicted anything I said. I never claimed you had not worked unsocial hours, nor have I said you are overpaid. I have just said that Hunt's reforms will mean you will work more unsocial hours than previously, and that is why you dislike him.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Meanwhile, on a lighter note, the dangers of Badger Watching:

    "Man calls 999 to say badger chased him"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33645647
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Disraeli said:

    ***DISCLAIMER - I AM NOT A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL***
    Staffing levels in the NHS are not matched to demand. As Foxinsoxuk (a medic himself) has explained many times on PB, the NHS is losing disturbingly high numbers of medical staff, particularly to the US and Australia.
    The gap is being filled by immigrants.

    Number of foreign GPs working in the NHS increases by 11% in decade - and will continue to rise due to shortage of doctors
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3021849/Number-foreign-GPs-working-NHS-increases-decade-continue-rise-shortage-doctors.html

    The argument that "if you don't like it then go and do something else" is spurious. It's human nature to fight to improve your present lot, rather than gamble on something new. It's not easy to switch careers, especially in the professions. There's also the pull of the fulfilment of being in a vocation with some jobs. (e.g Teachers)

    Completely agreed.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    John Mann is an Yvette Cooper supporter, isn't he? I struggle to believe she has not signed off on her surrogate doing this. Sounds like she is learning from her husband's underhand tactics.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,335
    Disraeli said:

    ***DISCLAIMER - I AM NOT A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL***
    Staffing levels in the NHS are not matched to demand. As Foxinsoxuk (a medic himself) has explained many times on PB, the NHS is losing disturbingly high numbers of medical staff, particularly to the US and Australia.
    The gap is being filled by immigrants.

    Number of foreign GPs working in the NHS increases by 11% in decade - and will continue to rise due to shortage of doctors
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3021849/Number-foreign-GPs-working-NHS-increases-decade-continue-rise-shortage-doctors.html

    The argument that "if you don't like it then go and do something else" is spurious. It's human nature to fight to improve your present lot, rather than gamble on something new. It's not easy to switch careers, especially in the professions. There's also the pull of the fulfilment of being in a vocation with some jobs. (e.g Teachers)

    The US runs a market system. That is why doctors are paid more. I don't know about Australia.

    If you have a state run system then there will be rationing: patients have to wait and doctors work at less than market rates. So we can either introduce the market into the system - which the BMA and others seem to be vigorously opposing - or pay more by taxing people more. Or what?

    But aren't we - the patients and the taxpayers - entitled to ask that the service be provided on a 24/7 basis? And work out a sensible way to achieve that?

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,335

    If the Labour party, or this country, completely lose it's marbles and elect Jeremy Corbyn, then this man will be responsible for keeping this country safe. He will have access to and be briefed on 'intelligence matters'.

    Needless to say, I leave that happy thought with you!!

    Richard Nabavi raised yesterday the question of whether he would even get security clearance as an Opposition leader. Would you really want intelligence information going to someone who appears on platforms with representatives of Hamas, a designated terrorist organisation, at a time of increased risk of Islamist terrorism?

  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    In some ways this Labour leadership farce is hilarious. At some point they'll see the light. The question is when?

    On Mann: I think he supports Kendall, not Cooper.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/06/who-nominated-who-2015-labour-leadership-election

    Mann is Yvette.

    In some ways this Labour leadership farce is hilarious. At some point they'll see the light. The question is when?

    On Mann: I think he supports Kendall, not Cooper.

  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Cyclefree said:

    Speedy said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11758612/Jeremy-Corbyn-accused-of-inaction-over-paedophile-scandal.html

    And yet his own constituency party never mentioned it before re-selecting him.. and why is John Mann suddenly raising it now.. its not as tho this is an old story..

    Apols if already discussed in a hurry and saw it..

    OH.. and who was leader of the Islington Council when all this was happening
    Margaret Hodge MP for Barking.
    One of the few supporters of Liz Kendall.
    And Minister for Children under the first Blair government. Oh, the irony!

    The barking MP?

  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Plato said:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/06/who-nominated-who-2015-labour-leadership-election

    Mann is Yvette.

    In some ways this Labour leadership farce is hilarious. At some point they'll see the light. The question is when?

    On Mann: I think he supports Kendall, not Cooper.

    Mann must have changed his mind then. When Kendall first declared her bid I recall him deciding to back her, after Jarvis confirmed he wasn't running.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Are we going to comment on the fact that even the GENERAL PUBLIC prefer Corbyn to the supposedly "electable candidate" Kendall?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    franklyn said:

    May I draw readers' attention to the government petition website https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104334
    This petition has reached over 176.000 signatures in 48 hours, and passed the 100,000 threshold in 24 hours.
    This isn't about politics; this is about Jeremy Hunt having no concept of the degree to which the NHS is, and has always been, dependent on the good will of the workforce.
    Please sign and let others know about it

    Why would anyone want to call for a constitutional nonsense? No confidence debates relate to HMG as a whole, not to specific ministers
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,388
    GO MORI!!!!!!!!!!
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited July 2015
    I'm still torn between which of Andy and Yvette would have the best shot of winning a general election. I'd been drifting to the view that Yvette would be a more robust and competent leader, but this is the second poll in a row where the public have given her markedly worse ratings than Andy. We really need some more to be commissioned.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited July 2015
    So Burnham has a net favourability of zero amongst the public as a whole, Cooper -12%, Kendall - 14% and Corbyn -19%. Not great for any of them, but Burnham is the only one without a negative rating as a potential PM
    Both Kendall and Corbyn get negative net ratings from Labour voters, Kendall getting the worst, only Burnham and Cooper seen as potential PMs by Labour supporters
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    edited July 2015
    Cyclefree said:


    But aren't we - the patients and the taxpayers - entitled to ask that the service be provided on a 24/7 basis? And work out a sensible way to achieve that?

    That's exactly what I personally want to see - though I can only speak for myself, of course.

    The limiting factor is our attitudes to public services and their funding. We criticise the Greeks for "wanting their cake and eating it", but when it comes to public services the great UK public wants a Rolls Royce service for the cost of a Renault.

    [Edited to remove a Grocer's Apostrophe]
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    MikeL said:

    Worth noting we've had a Budget - several million people have been told they will lose approx £1,000 to £1,500 in tax credits - and the Con lead is still the same as at the GE.

    Of those losing tax credits I would imagine very few voted Tory, certainly compared to those who benefited from the IHT cut
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I think Yvette is a better candidate, even though she says nothing. Andy is such a weathervane - Labour has enough issues without having a leader who can't stick with the same opinion for 24hrs.

    Don't like her myself, but she's the best uncontroversial candidate to hold the ship together.
    Danny565 said:

    I'm still torn between Andy and Yvette. I'd been drifting to the view that Yvette would be a more robust and competent leader, but this is the second poll in a row where the electorate have given her markedly worse ratings than Andy. We really need some more to be commissioned.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,938
    matt said:

    antifrank said:

    John Mann's intervention tells you everything you need to know about the febrile nature of today's Labour party.

    Labour's feral nature would be more appropriate..!
    John Mann strikes me as the modern equivalent of a Geoffrey Dickens or Peter Brunievals. ie a less than talented bullshiter who can't resist a microphone, and the media knows it.
    Not sure about that.

    One of the few MPs who demonstrated significant personal integrity and commonsense in the Expenses scandal. No one laid a finger on him.

    A stark contrast to, for example, my former MP Dennis Skinner, who has lived mainly in - I believe - Chelsea since the 1980s, or the late Sir Stuart Bell who spent much of his time in Paris and spent the Expenses scandal trolling around TV Studios telling fairy stories about how MPs salaries had been held down below inflation.

    Mann has also done some pretty good local campaigning.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Disraeli said:

    Cyclefree said:


    But aren't we - the patients and the taxpayers - entitled to ask that the service be provided on a 24/7 basis? And work out a sensible way to achieve that?

    That's exactly what I personally want to see - though I can only speak for myself, of course.

    The limiting factor is our attitudes to public services and their funding. We criticise the Greeks for "wanting their cake and eating it", but when it comes to public services the great UK public wants a Rolls Royce service for the cost of a Renault.

    [Edited to remove a Grocer's Apostrophe]
    I think it is more that we want a modern Rolls Royce for the price of a modern Aston Martin, rather than an antique Rolls Royce for the price of an antique Rolls Royce...
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