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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,517
    Danny565 said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    EPG said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG Not necessarily, the CSU in Bavaria is an ally of the CDU but runs on a separate platform, Scottish voters are more likely to be sympathetic to unionist parties that focus on Scottish concerns than run on a Westminster dictat

    If SLAB are entering a pissing contest with the SNP to see who can be the most left-wing, that must open up ground for the Conservatives.

    Not if they are doing it to show how much they hate the Conservatives!

    Rule one of PB.com should be not to underestimate how much the vast majority of Scots hate the Conservatives. It sometimes seems to be forgotten around here, where some sincerely expect 7-9 Scottish Conservative seats at GE2020.
    But, even if only 25% of Scots are receptive to right-wing views, that gives the Conservatives an opening.
    Quite - there is a very solid core of Tory voting in Scotland which has changed little in recent years - the two currently in steep decline are Labour and the LDs. Of course the future for all 3 is very uncertain but talk of visceral hatred for the Tories is nonsensical. That is all in the minds of the guardianistas and was most recently demonstrated as nonsense last May. Some on here really need to grow up.
    Yes a decline every election is doing well for them,
    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....
    Well, that is substantially less than their increase across the UK as a whole, no?
    Be interesting to see if she has the bollox to post the % of vote which will prove she was being economical with the truth. Their support has dwindled, so we can expect to see lots of bluster followed by silence
  • I would have no real problem with either of those two scenarios. I have much more of an issue with people saying charities are acting politically when what they actually mean is that charities are saying things I do not agree with. If the Charity Commission and the attorney general have chosen not to take any charities to court I suspect it is because they do not feel any charities have flouted the law.

    Interesting. Why should one class of political campaigning be exempt from tax, when the vast majority is not? I would be opposed to a "charity" which campaigned for the UK to secede from the European Union, notwithstanding the fact that I agree with the policy, since there is nothing about my political views which entitles them to tax advantages.

    The Attorney, although nominally responsible for enforcing the law of charities, does very little these days. As for the Charity Commission, there is widespread agreement that it either does not understand, or refuses to apply the law of charities (see, for example, Luxton & Evans, 'Cogent and cohesive? Two recent Charity Commission decisions on the advancement of religion', [2011] Conv. 144). It regularly loses when it is taken to court by serious litigants (see, for example, Regina (Independent Schools Council) v Charity Commission [2012] Ch. 214 (UT)). It is an utterly useless regulator.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Danny565 said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    EPG said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG Not necessarily, the CSU in Bavaria is an ally of the CDU but runs on a separate platform, Scottish voters are more likely to be sympathetic to unionist parties that focus on Scottish concerns than run on a Westminster dictat

    If SLAB are entering a pissing contest with the SNP to see who can be the most left-wing, that must open up ground for the Conservatives.

    Not if they are doing it to show how much they hate the Conservatives!

    Rule one of PB.com should be not to underestimate how much the vast majority of Scots hate the Conservatives. It sometimes seems to be forgotten around here, where some sincerely expect 7-9 Scottish Conservative seats at GE2020.
    But, even if only 25% of Scots are receptive to right-wing views, that gives the Conservatives an opening.
    Quite - there is a very solid core of Tory voting in Scotland which has changed little in recent years - the two currently in steep decline are Labour and the LDs. Of course the future for all 3 is very uncertain but talk of visceral hatred for the Tories is nonsensical. That is all in the minds of the guardianistas and was most recently demonstrated as nonsense last May. Some on here really need to grow up.
    Yes a decline every election is doing well for them,
    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....
    Well, that is substantially less than their increase across the UK as a whole, no?
    Irrelevant to 'Tories are declining in Scotland'
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    EPG said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG Not necessarily, the CSU in Bavaria is an ally of the CDU but runs on a separate platform, Scottish voters are more likely to be sympathetic to unionist parties that focus on Scottish concerns than run on a Westminster dictat

    If SLAB are entering a pissing contest with the SNP to see who can be the most left-wing, that must open up ground for the Conservatives.

    Not if they are doing it to show how much they hate the Conservatives!

    Rule one of PB.com should be not to underestimate how much the vast majority of Scots hate the Conservatives. It sometimes seems to be forgotten around here, where some sincerely expect 7-9 Scottish Conservative seats at GE2020.
    But, even if only 25% of Scots are receptive to right-wing views, that gives the Conservatives an opening.
    Quite - there is a very solid core of Tory voting in Scotland which has changed little in recent years - the two currently in steep decline are Labour and the LDs. Of course the future for all 3 is very uncertain but talk of visceral hatred for the Tories is nonsensical. That is all in the minds of the guardianistas and was most recently demonstrated as nonsense last May. Some on here really need to grow up.
    Yes a decline every election is doing well for them,
    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....
    Nice use of statistics to try to promote your fibs, can you show the % of the vote against those same numbers so we can see how relevant they are in reality.
    You're the one who has been caught fibbing again - why does the turnout of Labour, Lib Dem or SNP voters affect the number of Tories who turn out?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,517
    GeoffM said:

    Danny565 said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    EPG said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG Not necessarily, the CSU in Bavaria is an ally of the CDU but runs on a separate platform, Scottish voters are more likely to be sympathetic to unionist parties that focus on Scottish concerns than run on a Westminster dictat

    If SLAB are entering a pissing contest with the SNP to see who can be the most left-wing, that must open up ground for the Conservatives.

    Not if they are doing it to show how much they hate the Conservatives!

    Rule one of PB.com should be not to underestimate how much the vast majority of Scots hate the Conservatives. It sometimes seems to be forgotten around here, where some sincerely expect 7-9 Scottish Conservative seats at GE2020.
    But, even if only 25% of Scots are receptive to right-wing views, that gives the Conservatives an opening.
    Quite - there is a very solid core of Tory voting in Scotland which has changed little in recent years - the two currently in steep decline are Labour and the LDs. Of course the future for all 3 is very uncertain but talk of visceral hatred for the Tories is nonsensical. That is all in the minds of the guardianistas and was most recently demonstrated as nonsense last May. Some on here really need to grow up.
    Yes a decline every election is doing well for them,
    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....
    Well, that is substantially less than their increase across the UK as a whole, no?
    So we've gone from 'decrease' to 'increase' to 'increase not as big as other increase'
    Geoff , their support as a % of the vote has declined, the usual Tory half lie to try and obfuscate does not cut the mustard. We will see if she confirms the truth rather than continue with the esoteric view she is trying to use to hide the facts at present.
    Using bare numbers which are a decline of your previous position does seem to be a bit eccentric to say the least.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    Danny565 said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    EPG said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG Not necessarily, the CSU in Bavaria is an ally of the CDU but runs on a separate platform, Scottish voters are more likely to be sympathetic to unionist parties that focus on Scottish concerns than run on a Westminster dictat

    If SLAB are entering a pissing contest with the SNP to see who can be the most left-wing, that must open up ground for the Conservatives.

    Not if they are doing it to show how much they hate the Conservatives!

    Rule one of PB.com should be not to underestimate how much the vast majority of Scots hate the Conservatives. It sometimes seems to be forgotten around here, where some sincerely expect 7-9 Scottish Conservative seats at GE2020.
    But, even if only 25% of Scots are receptive to right-wing views, that gives the Conservatives an opening.
    Quite - there is a very solid core of Tory voting in Scotland which has changed little in recent years - the two currently in steep decline are Labour and the LDs. Of course the future for all 3 is very uncertain but talk of visceral hatred for the Tories is nonsensical. That is all in the minds of the guardianistas and was most recently demonstrated as nonsense last May. Some on here really need to grow up.
    Yes a decline every election is doing well for them,
    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....
    Well, that is substantially less than their increase across the UK as a whole, no?
    Be interesting to see if she has the bollox to post the % of vote which will prove she was being economical with the truth. Their support has dwindled, so we can expect to see lots of bluster followed by silence
    You were the promulgator of an outright lie 'a decline in every election'.

    Post your own percentages (hint - you may not like them...)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,169



    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....

    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 15.6%
    2005: 15.8%
    2010: 16.7%
    2015: 14.9%

    Almost 2pt decrease in share of vote since 2010, or to put it another way, 'Scottish Tories: worst vote share in its history'.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,517

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    EPG said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG Not necessarily, the CSU in Bavaria is an ally of the CDU but runs on a separate platform, Scottish voters are more likely to be sympathetic to unionist parties that focus on Scottish concerns than run on a Westminster dictat

    If SLAB are entering a pissing contest with the SNP to see who can be the most left-wing, that must open up ground for the Conservatives.

    Not if they are doing it to show how much they hate the Conservatives!

    Rule one of PB.com should be not to underestimate how much the vast majority of Scots hate the Conservatives. It sometimes seems to be forgotten around here, where some sincerely expect 7-9 Scottish Conservative seats at GE2020.
    But, even if only 25% of Scots are receptive to right-wing views, that gives the Conservatives an opening.
    Quite - there is a very solid core of Tory voting in Scotland which has changed little in recent years - the two currently in steep decline are Labour and the LDs. Of course the future for all 3 is very uncertain but talk of visceral hatred for the Tories is nonsensical. That is all in the minds of the guardianistas and was most recently demonstrated as nonsense last May. Some on here really need to grow up.
    Yes a decline every election is doing well for them,
    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....
    Nice use of statistics to try to promote your fibs, can you show the % of the vote against those same numbers so we can see how relevant they are in reality.
    You're the one who has been caught fibbing again - why does the turnout of Labour, Lib Dem or SNP voters affect the number of Tories who turn out?
    As predicted , their share of voters has continuously declined , bluster covered, we will get radio silence shortly.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,517

    malcolmg said:

    Danny565 said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    EPG said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG Not necessarily, the CSU in Bavaria is an ally of the CDU but runs on a separate platform, Scottish voters are more likely to be sympathetic to unionist parties that focus on Scottish concerns than run on a Westminster dictat

    If SLAB are entering a pissing contest with the SNP to see who can be the most left-wing, that must open up ground for the Conservatives.

    Not if they are doing it to show how much they hate the Conservatives!

    Rule one of PB.com should be not to underestimate how much the vast majority of Scots hate the Conservatives. It sometimes seems to be forgotten around here, where some sincerely expect 7-9 Scottish Conservative seats at GE2020.
    But, even if only 25% of Scots are receptive to right-wing views, that gives the Conservatives an opening.
    Quite - there is a very solid core of Tory voting in Scotland which has changed little in recent years - the two currently in steep decline are Labour and the LDs. Of course the future for all 3 is very uncertain but talk of visceral hatred for the Tories is nonsensical. That is all in the minds of the guardianistas and was most recently demonstrated as nonsense last May. Some on here really need to grow up.
    Yes a decline every election is doing well for them,
    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....
    Well, that is substantially less than their increase across the UK as a whole, no?
    Be interesting to see if she has the bollox to post the % of vote which will prove she was being economical with the truth. Their support has dwindled, so we can expect to see lots of bluster followed by silence
    You were the promulgator of an outright lie 'a decline in every election'.

    Post your own percentages (hint - you may not like them...)
    Ha Ha Ha TUD has saved me the bother , as stated it is downhill all the way. What part of LOWEST EVER do you not understand.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216



    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....

    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 15.6%
    2005: 15.8%
    2010: 16.7%
    2015: 14.9%

    Almost 2pt decrease in share of vote since 2010, or to put it another way, 'Scottish Tories: worst vote share in its history'.
    Since that shows an increase in two of the elections - 'decline in every election' has been proven to be the horsefeathers it is.....

    In any case, since the hypothesis is 'The Tories are declining in Scotland' how come the number of Tory voters is increasing?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    GeoffM said:

    Danny565 said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    EPG said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG Not necessarily, the CSU in Bavaria is an ally of the CDU but runs on a separate platform, Scottish voters are more likely to be sympathetic to unionist parties that focus on Scottish concerns than run on a Westminster dictat

    If SLAB are entering a pissing contest with the SNP to see who can be the most left-wing, that must open up ground for the Conservatives.

    Not if they are doing it to show how much they hate the Conservatives!

    Rule one of PB.com should be not to underestimate how much the vast majority of Scots hate the Conservatives. It sometimes seems to be forgotten around here, where some sincerely expect 7-9 Scottish Conservative seats at GE2020.
    But, even if only 25% of Scots are receptive to right-wing views, that gives the Conservatives an opening.
    Quite - there is a very solid core of Tory voting in Scotland which has changed little in recent years - the two currently in steep decline are Labour and the LDs. Of course the future for all 3 is very uncertain but talk of visceral hatred for the Tories is nonsensical. That is all in the minds of the guardianistas and was most recently demonstrated as nonsense last May. Some on here really need to grow up.
    Yes a decline every election is doing well for them,
    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....
    Well, that is substantially less than their increase across the UK as a whole, no?
    So we've gone from 'decrease' to 'increase' to 'increase not as big as other increase'
    Geoff , their support as a % of the vote has declined,
    No it hasn't.

    In two out of the last 4 elections it increased.

    Who wrote 'declined in every election'?

    Who is lying?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,517



    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....

    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 15.6%
    2005: 15.8%
    2010: 16.7%
    2015: 14.9%

    Almost 2pt decrease in share of vote since 2010, or to put it another way, 'Scottish Tories: worst vote share in its history'.
    Since that shows an increase in two of the elections - 'decline in every election' has been proven to be the horsefeathers it is.....

    In any case, since the hypothesis is 'The Tories are declining in Scotland' how come the number of Tory voters is increasing?
    LOL, you just cannot admit your porkies. Lowest % of the vote in their history. What does that say to you. Your pants must be ablaze.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Entertaining race today, I thought. Will set about the post-race piece fairly shortly.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,517

    malcolmg said:

    GeoffM said:

    Danny565 said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    EPG said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG Not necessarily, the CSU in Bavaria is an ally of the CDU but runs on a separate platform, Scottish voters are more likely to be sympathetic to unionist parties that focus on Scottish concerns than run on a Westminster dictat

    If SLAB are entering a pissing contest with the SNP to see who can be the most left-wing, that must open up ground for the Conservatives.

    Not if they are doing it to show how much they hate the Conservatives!

    Rule one of PB.com should be not to underestimate how much the vast majority of Scots hate the Conservatives. It sometimes seems to be forgotten around here, where some sincerely expect 7-9 Scottish Conservative seats at GE2020.
    But, even if only 25% of Scots are receptive to right-wing views, that gives the Conservatives an opening.
    Quite - there is a very solid core of Tory voting in Scotland which has changed little in recent years - the two currently in steep decline are Labour and the LDs. Of course the future for all 3 is very uncertain but talk of visceral hatred for the Tories is nonsensical. That is all in the minds of the guardianistas and was most recently demonstrated as nonsense last May. Some on here really need to grow up.
    Yes a decline every election is doing well for them,
    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....
    Well, that is substantially less than their increase across the UK as a whole, no?
    So we've gone from 'decrease' to 'increase' to 'increase not as big as other increase'
    Geoff , their support as a % of the vote has declined,
    No it hasn't.

    In two out of the last 4 elections it increased.

    Who wrote 'declined in every election'?

    Who is lying?
    Throw shovel out of the hole, save what little reputation you have left.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:



    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....

    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 15.6%
    2005: 15.8%
    2010: 16.7%
    2015: 14.9%

    Almost 2pt decrease in share of vote since 2010, or to put it another way, 'Scottish Tories: worst vote share in its history'.
    Since that shows an increase in two of the elections - 'decline in every election' has been proven to be the horsefeathers it is.....

    In any case, since the hypothesis is 'The Tories are declining in Scotland' how come the number of Tory voters is increasing?
    LOL, you just cannot admit your porkies. Lowest % of the vote in their history. What does that say to you. Your pants must be ablaze.
    It says it was an exceptional result for the SNP - and orders of magnitude the lowest hit of the major parties (Labour -17.7%, Lib Dem -11.3%). Against those, -1.8% is rounding.....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    GeoffM said:

    Danny565 said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    EPG said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG Not necessarily, the CSU in Bavaria is an ally of the CDU but runs on a separate platform, Scottish voters are more likely to be sympathetic to unionist parties that focus on Scottish concerns than run on a Westminster dictat

    If SLAB are entering a pissing contest with the SNP to see who can be the most left-wing, that must open up ground for the Conservatives.

    Not if they are doing it to show how much they hate the Conservatives!

    Rule one of PB.com should be not to underestimate how much the vast majority of Scots hate the Conservatives. It sometimes seems to be forgotten around here, where some sincerely expect 7-9 Scottish Conservative seats at GE2020.
    But, even if only 25% of Scots are receptive to right-wing views, that gives the Conservatives an opening.
    Quite - there is a very solid core of Tory voting in Scotland which has changed little in recent years - the two currently in steep decline are Labour and the LDs. Of course the future for all 3 is very uncertain but talk of visceral hatred for the Tories is nonsensical. That is all in the minds of the guardianistas and was most recently demonstrated as nonsense last May. Some on here really need to grow up.
    Yes a decline every election is doing well for them,
    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....
    Well, that is substantially less than their increase across the UK as a whole, no?
    So we've gone from 'decrease' to 'increase' to 'increase not as big as other increase'
    Geoff , their support as a % of the vote has declined,
    No it hasn't.

    In two out of the last 4 elections it increased.

    Who wrote 'declined in every election'?

    Who is lying?
    Throw shovel out of the hole, save what little reputation you have left.
    If I want repetitional advice I won't be coming to you......
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714

    malcolmg said:

    GeoffM said:

    Danny565 said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    EPG said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG Not necessarily, the CSU in Bavaria is an ally of the CDU but runs on a separate platform, Scottish voters are more likely to be sympathetic to unionist parties that focus on Scottish concerns than run on a Westminster dictat

    If SLAB are entering a pissing contest with the SNP to see who can be the most left-wing, that must open up ground for the Conservatives.

    Not if they are doing it to show how much they hate the Conservatives!

    Rule one of PB.com should be not to underestimate how much the vast majority of Scots hate the Conservatives. It sometimes seems to be forgotten around here, where some sincerely expect 7-9 Scottish Conservative seats at GE2020.
    But, even if only 25% of Scots are receptive to right-wing views, that gives the Conservatives an opening.
    Quite - there is a very solid core of Tory voting in Scotland which has changed little in recent years - the two currently in steep decline are Labour and the LDs. Of course the future for all 3 is very uncertain but talk of visceral hatred for the Tories is nonsensical. That is all in the minds of the guardianistas and was most recently demonstrated as nonsense last May. Some on here really need to grow up.
    Yes a decline every election is doing well for them,
    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....
    Well, that is substantially less than their increase across the UK as a whole, no?
    So we've gone from 'decrease' to 'increase' to 'increase not as big as other increase'
    Geoff , their support as a % of the vote has declined,
    No it hasn't.

    In two out of the last 4 elections it increased.

    Who wrote 'declined in every election'?

    Who is lying?
    Well, that was all a bit silly by our nationalist friends. Everyone appreciates that the Natgasm of 2015 was a massive and unprecedented event. It was also, I would suggest, a one-off and therefore unsuitable as evidence of any demographic trending.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,517

    malcolmg said:



    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....

    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 15.6%
    2005: 15.8%
    2010: 16.7%
    2015: 14.9%

    Almost 2pt decrease in share of vote since 2010, or to put it another way, 'Scottish Tories: worst vote share in its history'.
    Since that shows an increase in two of the elections - 'decline in every election' has been proven to be the horsefeathers it is.....

    In any case, since the hypothesis is 'The Tories are declining in Scotland' how come the number of Tory voters is increasing?
    LOL, you just cannot admit your porkies. Lowest % of the vote in their history. What does that say to you. Your pants must be ablaze.
    It says it was an exceptional result for the SNP - and orders of magnitude the lowest hit of the major parties (Labour -17.7%, Lib Dem -11.3%). Against those, -1.8% is rounding.....
    You just cannot admit you are wrong. Unfortunately I have no more time for laughter as I have to cut the grass. Will look in later to see how you explain this mythical increase that is in fact a decrease. Law of physics obviously do not apply to Tories, less is indeed more.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    malcolmg said:

    GeoffM said:

    Danny565 said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    EPG said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG Not necessarily, the CSU in Bavaria is an ally of the CDU but runs on a separate platform, Scottish voters are more likely to be sympathetic to unionist parties that focus on Scottish concerns than run on a Westminster dictat

    If SLAB are entering a pissing contest with the SNP to see who can be the most left-wing, that must open up ground for the Conservatives.

    Not if they are doing it to show how much they hate the Conservatives!

    Rule one of PB.com should be not to underestimate how much the vast majority of Scots hate the Conservatives. It sometimes seems to be forgotten around here, where some sincerely expect 7-9 Scottish Conservative seats at GE2020.
    But, even if only 25% of Scots are receptive to right-wing views, that gives the Conservatives an opening.
    Yes a decline every election is doing well for them,
    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....
    Well, that is substantially less than their increase across the UK as a whole, no?
    So we've gone from 'decrease' to 'increase' to 'increase not as big as other increase'
    Geoff , their support as a % of the vote has declined,
    No it hasn't.

    In two out of the last 4 elections it increased.

    Who wrote 'declined in every election'?

    Who is lying?
    Well, that was all a bit silly by our nationalist friends. Everyone appreciates that the Natgasm of 2015 was a massive and unprecedented event. It was also, I would suggest, a one-off and therefore unsuitable as evidence of any demographic trending.
    Its an important meme to them for some reason - 'the Tories are irrelevant' (never mind nearly half a million Scots vote for them...)

    In any case in an FPTP Parliament what actually matters is seats - in which case the Tories are flat, since 2001.....
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672

    I would have no real problem with either of those two scenarios. I have much more of an issue with people saying charities are acting politically when what they actually mean is that charities are saying things I do not agree with. If the Charity Commission and the attorney general have chosen not to take any charities to court I suspect it is because they do not feel any charities have flouted the law.

    Interesting. Why should one class of political campaigning be exempt from tax, when the vast majority is not? I would be opposed to a "charity" which campaigned for the UK to secede from the European Union, notwithstanding the fact that I agree with the policy, since there is nothing about my political views which entitles them to tax advantages.

    The Attorney, although nominally responsible for enforcing the law of charities, does very little these days. As for the Charity Commission, there is widespread agreement that it either does not understand, or refuses to apply the law of charities (see, for example, Luxton & Evans, 'Cogent and cohesive? Two recent Charity Commission decisions on the advancement of religion', [2011] Conv. 144). It regularly loses when it is taken to court by serious litigants (see, for example, Regina (Independent Schools Council) v Charity Commission [2012] Ch. 214 (UT)). It is an utterly useless regulator.

    Losing a court case does not necessarily imply lack of legal knowledge. As you say, there are serious litigants out there prepared to challenge the Charity Commission's interpretations of the law. If the Commission continually loses cases - as opposed to losing some of the time, which might be expected - then it is certainly incumbent on the government to take action. As yet, I don't think that has happened, has it?

    On your first point. I would not have a huge problem with political parties and organisations having charitable status. The major issue for me is transparency.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,169
    edited June 2015


    Since that shows an increase in two of the elections - 'decline in every election' has been proven to be the horsefeathers it is.....

    In any case, since the hypothesis is 'The Tories are declining in Scotland' how come the number of Tory voters is increasing?

    If the rate of increase in Tory voters continues to be lower than that of the increase in turnout, that will equate to a decline. However (sorry Govey) let's just describe 2015 as a pretty crappy result for the SCons lost in the maelstrom of sewage that swamped SLab and the SLDs.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:



    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 360,658
    2005: 369,388
    2010: 412,855
    2015: 434,097

    Now I know 'numbers' is not a Nat strong suit, but can't you tell the difference between 'decline' and 'increase'?

    You'll be telling us Scotland props up England next.....

    Conservative voters in Scotland:

    2001: 15.6%
    2005: 15.8%
    2010: 16.7%
    2015: 14.9%

    Almost 2pt decrease in share of vote since 2010, or to put it another way, 'Scottish Tories: worst vote share in its history'.
    Since that shows an increase in two of the elections - 'decline in every election' has been proven to be the horsefeathers it is.....

    In any case, since the hypothesis is 'The Tories are declining in Scotland' how come the number of Tory voters is increasing?
    LOL, you just cannot admit your porkies. Lowest % of the vote in their history. What does that say to you. Your pants must be ablaze.
    It says it was an exceptional result for the SNP - and orders of magnitude the lowest hit of the major parties (Labour -17.7%, Lib Dem -11.3%). Against those, -1.8% is rounding.....
    You just cannot admit you are wrong
    Not when I'm not - I don't have to!

    Go on show me either the number of voters or percentage of votes for the Tories declining in every election as you claimed.

    In your own time.....

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Entertaining race today, I thought. Will set about the post-race piece fairly shortly.

    Modesty seems to have prevented you mentioning your success with both of your tips, Mr Dancer.
    And, as I followed you in; thank you!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Because the number of voters is increasing


    The Scottish electorate has been pretty flat - until 2015 which saw a substantial increase - so the Tory vote has increased by more than the electorate - until 2015 - which most would argue was an exceptional election.....

    Scottish Electorate:
    2001: 3,978,871 (+0.7%)
    2005: 3,851,298 (-3.2%)
    2010: 3,864,768 (+0.3%)
    2015: 4,093,481 (+5.9%)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. M, cheers :)

    Not sure it'd count as a spoiler, but after one of the Tims (apologies for forgetting if it's Mr. B or Mr. T) complained of spoilers some time ago I try and keep stuff on pb.com as vague as possible.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Mr. M, cheers :)

    Not sure it'd count as a spoiler, but after one of the Tims (apologies for forgetting if it's Mr. B or Mr. T) complained of spoilers some time ago I try and keep stuff on pb.com as vague as possible.

    B, not T. :)
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Because the number of voters is increasing


    The Scottish electorate has been pretty flat - until 2015 which saw a substantial increase - so the Tory vote has increased by more than the electorate - until 2015 - which most would argue was an exceptional election.....

    Scottish Electorate:
    2001: 3,978,871 (+0.7%)
    2005: 3,851,298 (-3.2%)
    2010: 3,864,768 (+0.3%)
    2015: 4,093,481 (+5.9%)
    According to the National Records of Scotland, the Westminster electorate in Scotland has increased by just 43,000 over the period 2000-2015. See Table 1 at http://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/electoral-statistics/2nd-march-2015/tables-and-figure
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. T, sorry :p
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    MTimT said:

    Because the number of voters is increasing


    The Scottish electorate has been pretty flat - until 2015 which saw a substantial increase - so the Tory vote has increased by more than the electorate - until 2015 - which most would argue was an exceptional election.....

    Scottish Electorate:
    2001: 3,978,871 (+0.7%)
    2005: 3,851,298 (-3.2%)
    2010: 3,864,768 (+0.3%)
    2015: 4,093,481 (+5.9%)
    According to the National Records of Scotland, the Westminster electorate in Scotland has increased by just 43,000 over the period 2000-2015. See Table 1 at http://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/electoral-statistics/2nd-march-2015/tables-and-figure
    Thanks - a 1% increase over 15 years is pretty much 'flat' - and the Tory vote over that period was up 75,000......those Tory pensioners in 2001 must be in their 80s now.....
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    To use the 2015 figures as evidence of continual Tory decline in Scotland is pretty stupid and therefore a pretty predictable line for malc G to take. TUD used to have more sense and balance in his posts but excessive nationalism is bad for all kinds of logical thought. The tory vote this year was almost certainly flat, in part due to tactical voting for Labour in some places and the LDs in others. That may well happen rather less in the future.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited June 2015

    Mr. M, cheers :)

    Not sure it'd count as a spoiler, but after one of the Tims (apologies for forgetting if it's Mr. B or Mr. T) complained of spoilers some time ago I try and keep stuff on pb.com as vague as possible.

    There is always the danger of spoilers - indeed the thread yesterday contained pleas to keep the cricket result under wraps until the highlights had been shown - which is why I didn't mention what your tips had been!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,169
    edited June 2015

    Because the number of voters is increasing


    The Scottish electorate has been pretty flat - until 2015 which saw a substantial increase - so the Tory vote has increased by more than the electorate - until 2015 - which most would argue was an exceptional election.....

    Scottish Electorate:
    2001: 3,978,871 (+0.7%)
    2005: 3,851,298 (-3.2%)
    2010: 3,864,768 (+0.3%)
    2015: 4,093,481 (+5.9%)
    The electorate is not the same as number of voters i.e. those who actually vote. Has the Tory vote percentage increased at the same rate as turnout?

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    F1: post-race analysis of an interesting Austrian race:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/austria-post-race-analysis.html
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    A Corbyn led Labour party would bring in annual elections for leader which could well end up with him going next year.Had they have been in place Blair,Brown and Miliband could have been dealt with much earlier and saved the Labour party a few years going nowhere.Annual elections for leader may attract the same people who will vote Jeremy out the following year after voting for him in for leader,but it would be a legacy to be proud of.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,973
    Mr. M, aye, that's true.
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited June 2015

    Losing a court case does not necessarily imply lack of legal knowledge. As you say, there are serious litigants out there prepared to challenge the Charity Commission's interpretations of the law. If the Commission continually loses cases - as opposed to losing some of the time, which might be expected - then it is certainly incumbent on the government to take action. As yet, I don't think that has happened, has it?

    On your first point. I would not have a huge problem with political parties and organisations having charitable status. The major issue for me is transparency.

    Private litigants challenge the Charity Commission when it applies an interpretation of the law that is far too restrictive, as in the ISC case. No one has any interest in challenging the Commission when it adopts an interpretation that is too relaxed, as it does on the political activity of charities.

    Still, you have at least adopted a consistent position! Interestingly, some of our sister common law jurisdictions take a more relaxed approach to political charities (see the Supreme Court of New Zealand in Re Greenpeace of New Zealand Inc [2014] NZSC 105; and the High Court of Australia in Commissioner of Taxation v Aid/Watch Inc [2009] FCAFC 128). Perhaps that is the way to go. I am not convinced.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    felix said:

    To use the 2015 figures as evidence of continual Tory decline in Scotland is pretty stupid and therefore a pretty predictable line for malc G to take. TUD used to have more sense and balance in his posts but excessive nationalism is bad for all kinds of logical thought. The tory vote this year was almost certainly flat, in part due to tactical voting for Labour in some places and the LDs in others. That may well happen rather less in the future.

    I think the Scottish Tories remains solidly at it's core vote level of 15%, SLAB seem to be on their way down to a similar level of core vote - 19% per the last poll, but trend is downwards. The main concern for both parties is that they are overly dependent on the over 55 vote. For either party to recover they need to start focusing on attracting younger voters. I think voters do become more conservative with a small "c" as they get older and become more likely to vote Tory or Labour.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,243

    A Corbyn led Labour party would bring in annual elections for leader which could well end up with him going next year.Had they have been in place Blair,Brown and Miliband could have been dealt with much earlier and saved the Labour party a few years going nowhere.Annual elections for leader may attract the same people who will vote Jeremy out the following year after voting for him in for leader,but it would be a legacy to be proud of.

    So a vote for Corbyn in 2015 is the best way to get Dan Jarvis in 2020?
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Andy Murray, that great British player has just won the Queens Club final.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,984

    New Thread

  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790

    Nobody claimed it was a problem for democracy when Labour got a smaller share of the vote and a majority of around 50-60.

    Oh yes I did.

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