Just watching QT from last night. Surprised to see Matt Hancock keeps getting put in front of the cameras for the Govt - he is not a particularly polished media performer.
Hunt and Soubry should take turns in perpetuity: probably start seeing 15% Tory leads in the polls
The problem is some Conservatives believe everyone who voted Conservative is a Conservative and is fully signed up to Conservative policies....
This post is bloody fantastic and sums up a lot of my thoughts on some Conservatives (not all I will stress). They really do seem to believe that all who voted for them, and indeed the public in general will be uncritical in their assessment of the Conservatives. That the political landscape will never change, and that opposition towards them will never be organised and always fragmented. That they have decided the direction of education, health, and other areas of state services forever.
An assessment which strikes me as a bit weird, given we are yet to see whether the Gove revolution (it's still going on despite Nicky Morgan now as education secretary) really does improve education, and whether private involvement in state services does lead to better outcomes, or indeed whether IDS can be successful with his universal credit program. Many of these projects are still in the making, and I'd wager it will be the outcome of these project that will decide how the political landscape looks.
Even on the economy I'd argue the Conservatives aren't on completely steady ground. By 2020, they will have been power for ten years - they will have to take responsibility for their own economic record. As such much of their record on competence will depend on Osborne's handling of the economy in the next five years - can he meet his targets, are polices such as Right to Buy successful, is the housing crisis resolved/remedied to some degree, do wages start to rise, how is another economic downturn handled et al.
I think you've also made very good points on the EU, welfare, and for that matter I'd mention the HRA too. Handling issues such as these with a small majority will take a careful approach, and it's still questionable as to whether Cameron can do this successfully. In the coalition years, Cameron had 57 LD MPs as buffer to the influence of his Right Wing. Now, he will have to try and work with them. I think some have been especially quick to compare Cameron to Thatcher and Churchill - much of Cameron's legacy is still yet to be decided. People talk of him winning the Scottish Ref, and I always thought that was an odd notion. In nation like Scotland, which isn't a fan of the Tories at all, I'd wager that the uncertainty of independence was far more crucial in determining the outcome then Scots thinking how great Cameron was. Furthermore the United Kingdom is arguably more divided now after the referendum, than it was before, with Cameron's GE rhetoric hardly helping that.
The problem is some Conservatives believe everyone who voted Conservative is a Conservative and is fully signed up to Conservative policies....
This post is bloody fantastic and sums up a lot of my thoughts on some Conservatives (not all I will stress). They really do seem to believe that all who voted for them, and indeed the public in general will be uncritical in their assessment of the Conservatives. That the political landscape will never change, and that opposition towards them will never be organised and always fragmented. That they have decided the direction of education, health, and other areas of state services forever.
That isn't really a Tory thing, it's a political party which has won thin, though obviously only the Tories are going through that phase at the moment.
The problem is some Conservatives believe everyone who voted Conservative is a Conservative and is fully signed up to Conservative policies....
This post is bloody fantastic and sums up a lot of my thoughts on some Conservatives (not all I will stress). They really do seem to believe that all who voted for them, and indeed the public in general will be uncritical in their assessment of the Conservatives. That the political landscape will never change, and that opposition towards them will never be organised and always fragmented. That they have decided the direction of education, health, and other areas of state services forever.
That isn't really a Tory thing, it's a political party which has won thin, though obviously only the Tories are going through that phase at the moment.
I take your point, and I guess I would have been a bit too young to see Labour supporters act this way after 1997. I still can't help but find it odd, though.
The problem is some Conservatives believe everyone who voted Conservative is a Conservative and is fully signed up to Conservative policies.
Whereas the SNP claim anyone who didn't vote SNP is a Tory (including Labour)
And Labour claim anyone not supporting Labour is a Tory
Both of those claims by Labour and the SNP (if true) would be wrong. Although I'd be shocked if Labour were seriously dumb enough to think anyone who doesn't vote for them is Tory.
Interesting article, Stodge. FWIW, my critique of Farron - who I consider a decent chap - is as follows.
Firstly, there is a genuine concern that he's liberal until it conflicts with his religious values. That's a thing that can apply to all of us... we're all about the tolerance until it causes discomfort, then we look for excuses. Lamb has his own limits no doubt, but who's the fingertip liberal? It's Norman.
Secondly, both had the chance to enact their values.one did, while the other played the long game. Wise by Tim... but more than a shade of the Captain Darlings about it. Lamb is the man you'd want with you in the trenches.
Finally, Farron may well believe not being minister is a get out of jail card. It isn't. He sat on the Government benches, and the centre left won't easily forgive... It's like Clegg pointing out he favoured a change to our student fees policy pre 2010... true, but one for the specialists, not one which butters parsnips. Lamb may actually be better at something because he understand it's a problem, while Farron suspects it isn't.
*Puts on a Conservative hat* (1) You can't blame the Conservatives for getting a bit excited right now. The election result was so unexpected and such a pleasant surprise for a party which had not won an outright majority since 1992 - and then in equally surprising circumstances. It was a bit like watching your football team being 3-0 down with ten minutes to go, then seeing it come storming back to win 4-3!
I agree that nothing is certain in politics ("events" and all that). But if there are no game-changing events between now and 2020 then Labour can't just rely on Tory slip-ups to win by default. They have to be a credible opposition.
*Takes off Conservative hat *
(1) A Conservative hat is a baseball cap with "Property of William Hague on the label".
Defeated former shadow chancellor Ed Balls is set to end speculation over his next move outside politics – by taking up a special teaching position in the US, it was claimed today.
Mr Balls, who was ousted from Parliament at the last election, is understood to have agreed to become a part-time lecturer at Harvard University.
The conservatives fought an election on an EU renegotiation referendum platform and still managed to wipe out the Lib Dems. How does this help them, as rabid pro Europe, getting their seats back? As ever people are over analysing far too much. There are a load of 'events' to happen yet between now and 2020. Wading through those are what politics is about.
Extracts from today's Guardian-more evidence of unionism at BBC Scotland rotting from the head due to its deadly entanglement with SLAB.
Union leaders are meeting BBC management on Friday to press for urgent action after the daughter of one of Scotland’s most famous politicians, the late Margo MacDonald, successfully made a complaint of bullying against BBC Scotland’s head of news and current affairs, John Boothman, the Guardian can reveal.
Be interested to see more detail on this, such as evidence of SLab involvement, or the substance of the other allegations. Plus, I suppose, anything supporting the implication that MacDonald was targeted due to her family links to Nationalism.
The conservatives fought an election on an EU renegotiation referendum platform and still managed to wipe out the Lib Dems. How does this help them, as rabid pro Europe, getting their seats back? As ever people are over analysing far too much. There are a load of 'events' to happen yet between now and 2020. Wading through those are what politics is about.
Do you seriously think that every person who voted Conservative agreed with every single point in the Tory manifesto?
Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper calling for a public enquiry on the 1980's miners strike. Something's with labour never change - do they seriously want to govern again
Or one could say, ‘delusional white girl lies about her ethnicity, her parentage, her adopted siblings which she passes off as her own children, makes claims of abuse that she received at the hands of racists, including threats, break-ins, and nooses being left at her workplace for what ever purpose and sneaks a place to University meant for black and ethnic minorities.’
*Puts on a Conservative hat* (1) You can't blame the Conservatives for getting a bit excited right now. The election result was so unexpected and such a pleasant surprise for a party which had not won an outright majority since 1992 - and then in equally surprising circumstances. It was a bit like watching your football team being 3-0 down with ten minutes to go, then seeing it come storming back to win 4-3!
I agree that nothing is certain in politics ("events" and all that). But if there are no game-changing events between now and 2020 then Labour can't just rely on Tory slip-ups to win by default. They have to be a credible opposition.
*Takes off Conservative hat *
(1) A Conservative hat is a baseball cap with "Property of William Hague on the label".
I agree with you that Labour definitely do need to be a credible opposition. And whether they can is still up in the air. I don't think Labour is as doomed as many on here do, but I'm very uncertain as to what direction they'll go in.
Dolezal – who appears to have looked about as white as a white woman can be before she started passing herself off as mixed – was also a professor of African American Studies at Eastern Washington University who posed with Maryland prosecutor Marilyn Mosby, complained that the film The Help was, “A white woman [making] millions off of a black woman’s story,” and even gave a lecture on black hair.
Or one could say, ‘delusional white girl lies about her ethnicity, her parentage, her adopted siblings which she passes off as her own children, makes claims of abuse that she received at the hands of racists, including threats, break-ins, and nooses being left at her workplace for what ever purpose and sneaks a place to University meant for black and ethnic minorities.’
As ever people are over analysing far too much. There are a load of 'events' to happen yet between now and 2020. Wading through those are what politics is about.
I agree entirely. The referendum is an important known unknown, but the event or events that truly define the 2015-20 electoral cycle probably haven't seriously been thought about yet. Like the death of Smith, Back to Basics or even Black Wednesday from the perspective of Summer 1992, or Iraq or even Afghanistan in Summer 2001, or the financial meltdown in Summer 2005.
Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper calling for a public enquiry on the 1980's miners strike. Something's with labour never change - do they seriously want to govern again
The miner's strike is one of the areas of recent history where the losers have become to be seen as the victors, and the victors as the losers.
Labour might be wise not to concentrate the light of justice too strongly on events, lest people remember that Billy Elliot was only one side off the story.
Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper calling for a public enquiry on the 1980's miners strike. Something's with labour never change - do they seriously want to govern again
I think Burnham and Cooper might be trying to win a different battle first...
Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper calling for a public enquiry on the 1980's miners strike. Something's with labour never change - do they seriously want to govern again
I think Burnham and Cooper might be trying to win a different battle first...
The Country needs a responsible opposition and all labour is doing at present is tearing itself apart.
The conservatives fought an election on an EU renegotiation referendum platform and still managed to wipe out the Lib Dems. How does this help them, as rabid pro Europe, getting their seats back? As ever people are over analysing far too much. There are a load of 'events' to happen yet between now and 2020. Wading through those are what politics is about.
Do you seriously think that every person who voted Conservative agreed with every single point in the Tory manifesto?
Had the novel experience earlier today of defending the Tory manifesto. A Telegraph reader was whinging that the 0.7% foreign aid wasn't in the manifesto, so he'd been deprived of his democratic right not to have the Government help foreigners. I gave him chapter and verse. He fell silent.
Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper calling for a public enquiry on the 1980's miners strike. Something's with labour never change - do they seriously want to govern again
The miner's strike is one of the areas of recent history where the losers have become to be seen as the victors, and the victors as the losers.
Labour might be wise not to concentrate the light of justice too strongly on events, lest people remember that Billy Elliot was only one side off the story.
Even worse they may have to thank Mts T for stopping all the CO2 hitting the atmosphere.
Dolezal – who appears to have looked about as white as a white woman can be before she started passing herself off as mixed – was also a professor of African American Studies at Eastern Washington University who posed with Maryland prosecutor Marilyn Mosby, complained that the film The Help was, “A white woman [making] millions off of a black woman’s story,” and even gave a lecture on black hair.
Or one could say, ‘delusional white girl lies about her ethnicity, her parentage, her adopted siblings which she passes off as her own children, makes claims of abuse that she received at the hands of racists, including threats, break-ins, and nooses being left at her workplace for what ever purpose and sneaks a place to University meant for black and ethnic minorities.’
Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper calling for a public enquiry on the 1980's miners strike. Something's with labour never change - do they seriously want to govern again
Hold on, there's another point here. That piece of scum Burnham wants an inquiry into the miner's strike, yet regrets a public inquiry (which he refused to hold when in office) into Stafford because it hurts the trust's reputation?
I was right. He's scum.
(I'm sorry if that hurts your sense of propriety NPXMPMPMPXX, but the people of Stafford and the surrpunding area were hurt much, much more)
Danish update - latest 6 polls all show centre-right leads, from 1 to 4%. Time to close any Thorning bets.
It is reported that they will endorse David Cameron's changes and work with him. They are also reported that they will organise their own referendum. The UK referendum could result in a major outbreak across Europe for change and possibly many more referendums. Very interesting times ahead
I really can't see what Andy or Yvette are doing anywhere near this one. Those who still call each other scabs aren't exactly going to vote anyone but Labour in the main. It just drags them backwards with moist eyed nostalgia. So perfect for Andy on second thoughts...
And just for cultural context - this was so long ago, Den and Angie were still running the Queen Vic.
Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper calling for a public enquiry on the 1980's miners strike. Something's with labour never change - do they seriously want to govern again
The miner's strike is one of the areas of recent history where the losers have become to be seen as the victors, and the victors as the losers.
Labour might be wise not to concentrate the light of justice too strongly on events, lest people remember that Billy Elliot was only one side off the story.
Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper calling for a public enquiry on the 1980's miners strike. Something's with labour never change - do they seriously want to govern again
I think Burnham and Cooper might be trying to win a different battle first...
The Country needs a responsible opposition and all labour is doing at present is tearing itself apart.
Um, they're having a leadership election, which seems to be being conducted in pretty reasonable terms.
Yes, Plato. Those sort of people might well even be Labour and/or trades union members. What conceivable reason could Burnham and Cooper have for courting them just now. It beggars belief!?!
Sky paper review had an old hand from the network, and one young, one older chap doing the review. Young chap referred to Thatcher the milk snatcher. Sky man replied that he was glad when the milk went because it was either warm and horrid or frozen with lumpy bits. Other older man agreed, at which point the airhead youth said it was 'before his time'.
The myth will outlast the truth on that account, and others.
It's my understanding, though it's not my period, the same is true of World War One and the 'idiocy' of the generals. Some people even think Caesar was superior to Hannibal, you know.
The Miners strike was entirely about one thing... Arthur Scargill,s ambition to bring down the democratically elected Government..The miners were duped into thinking it was about them.
In retrospect, it's hard even to see how we all could've expected the LDs to hold onto even as many as 20 seats. It simply was never going to happen unless the Tories also suffered a sharp fall in their vote, which would've lowered the winning post in a lot of the Con/LD marginals.
Rcs1000 pointed this out many times and some of us were too timid to take that advice and bet accordingly.
I did. Robert's advice on the 16/1 with Skybet on 0-10 LD seats made me quite a bit of cash.
I took a Murphy's law approach to the LDs prior to the election. The only places I lost money was where I backed them in their 'strongholds', such as Eastleigh.
I find the idea of citing examples really odd by those who weren't alive at the time and have no direct experience of it. It's often political mythology and swallowed whole by ardent supporters who simply aren't interested in the actualite.
I wouldn't dream of pontificating about Attlee et al. I'm comfortable relating experiences from the early/mid 70s onwards.
Sky paper review had an old hand from the network, and one young, one older chap doing the review. Young chap referred to Thatcher the milk snatcher. Sky man replied that he was glad when the milk went because it was either warm and horrid or frozen with lumpy bits. Other older man agreed, at which point the airhead youth said it was 'before his time'.
The myth will outlast the truth on that account, and others.
It's my understanding, though it's not my period, the same is true of World War One and the 'idiocy' of the generals. Some people even think Caesar was superior to Hannibal, you know.
The Miners strike was entirely about one thing... Arthur Scargill,s ambition to bring down the democratically elected Government..The miners were duped into thinking it was about them.
Defeated former shadow chancellor Ed Balls is set to end speculation over his next move outside politics – by taking up a special teaching position in the US, it was claimed today.
Mr Balls, who was ousted from Parliament at the last election, is understood to have agreed to become a part-time lecturer at Harvard University.
The Miners strike was entirely about one thing... Arthur Scargill,s ambition to bring down the democratically elected Government..The miners were duped into thinking it was about them.
Yep. Credit should be given to Nottinghamshire miners, many of whom did not fall for the Scargill line. Sadly families are still split by the after-effects of the strike, over thirty years on.
The Miners strike was entirely about one thing... Arthur Scargill,s ambition to bring down the democratically elected Government..The miners were duped into thinking it was about them.
I got banned from Labour List in 2010 for suggesting that the 25th anniversary of the miners' strike be commemorated with a campaign medal. For the police horses.
I find the idea of citing examples really odd by those who weren't alive at the time and have no direct experience of it. It's often political mythology and swallowed whole by ardent supporters who simply aren't interested in the actualite.
I wouldn't dream of pontificating about Attlee et al. I'm comfortable relating experiences from the early/mid 70s onwards.
Sky paper review had an old hand from the network, and one young, one older chap doing the review. Young chap referred to Thatcher the milk snatcher. Sky man replied that he was glad when the milk went because it was either warm and horrid or frozen with lumpy bits. Other older man agreed, at which point the airhead youth said it was 'before his time'.
The myth will outlast the truth on that account, and others.
It's my understanding, though it's not my period, the same is true of World War One and the 'idiocy' of the generals. Some people even think Caesar was superior to Hannibal, you know.
[mode=tongue in cheek] So you are calling Mr Dancer and TSE 'odd' when they sabre-rattle over Caesar and Hannibal? That's a brave opinion; especially when one of them is absolutely and undeniably correct.
*Puts on a Conservative hat* (1) You can't blame the Conservatives for getting a bit excited right now. The election result was so unexpected and such a pleasant surprise for a party which had not won an outright majority since 1992 - and then in equally surprising circumstances. It was a bit like watching your football team being 3-0 down with ten minutes to go, then seeing it come storming back to win 4-3!
I agree that nothing is certain in politics ("events" and all that). But if there are no game-changing events between now and 2020 then Labour can't just rely on Tory slip-ups to win by default. They have to be a credible opposition.
*Takes off Conservative hat *
(1) A Conservative hat is a baseball cap with "Property of William Hague on the label".
I had a good giggle at the Hague gag.
But your analogy is wrong.
It's not that their team came back from 3-0 down to squeeze through 4-3.
It was rather more workmanlike performance but with a comfortable margin of victory in the final analysis - let's say 2-0, one in the eye for Labour and an even sweeter one for the Lib Dems. It's just that the supporters thought they were 3-0 down, because they hadn't noticed the goals were disallowed and didn't count, and the scoreboard was showing the wrong result til they updated it right after the final whistle.
The Miners strike was entirely about one thing... Arthur Scargill,s ambition to bring down the democratically elected Government..The miners were duped into thinking it was about them.
I got banned from Labour List in 2010 for suggesting that the 25th anniversary of the miners' strike be commemorated with a campaign medal. For the police horses.
LOL
As a result of all the overtime earned Plod wore T Shirts with the following emblazoned on the front
I managed to get £50 on Lamb at 11/2 with William Hill, I only got £6.25 on Corbyn at 80/1, WH scared to take my money as ever. Came across this graph earlier:
Great charts - 1997 was a shocker! IMO anyone thinking the LDs or Labour will rise phoenix like from their ashes should take a long hard look at those bar graphs.
I managed to get £50 on Lamb at 11/2 with William Hill, I only got £6.25 on Corbyn at 80/1, WH scared to take my money as ever. Came across this graph earlier:
When there was a big majority government in 2005-10, for most of the time, everyone said the next election would pretty surely produce a big majority government. Not 90 per cent, but pretty sure.
When there was a hung parliament in 2010-15, everyone was pretty sure there would be another hung parliament in 2015-16.
Now we are wiser, everyone is pretty sure there will be Conservative majority governments forever and ever in foreseeable future.
On PB, Conservatives don't have problems in Scotland.
Heh?
I've been reading this board for many years, and don't think I've ever seen a poster seriously claim that the Tories were on course for a landslide in Scotland.
Many predictions made by the more enthusiastic/excitable/optimistic Tory supporters here have not come to pass, that much is true. But discussion of Conservative prospects in Scotland has pretty much always been tempered. The Tories almost got twice as many seats in Scotland than Labour did, but I don't think anyone has been crowing this as a great Tory success except with a hint of irony.
When there was a big majority government in 2005-10, for most of the time, everyone said the next election would pretty surely produce a big majority government. Not 90 per cent, but pretty sure.
When there was a hung parliament in 2010-15, everyone was pretty sure there would be another hung parliament in 2015-16.
Now we are wiser, everyone is pretty sure there will be Conservative majority governments forever and ever in foreseeable future.
When there was a big majority government in 2005-10, for most of the time, everyone said the next election would pretty surely produce a big majority government. Not 90 per cent, but pretty sure.
When there was a hung parliament in 2010-15, everyone was pretty sure there would be another hung parliament in 2015-16.
Now we are wiser, everyone is pretty sure there will be Conservative majority governments forever and ever in foreseeable future.
Getting rid of Scotland will help.
Well, it was your number one fear factor/vote attractor and Labour were so ill-led that they didn't even realise it for weeks. People in Harlow will be less scared of Labour if that happens. And whosever watch it's under will be rather discredited as a prime minister.
When there was a big majority government in 2005-10, for most of the time, everyone said the next election would pretty surely produce a big majority government. Not 90 per cent, but pretty sure.
When there was a hung parliament in 2010-15, everyone was pretty sure there would be another hung parliament in 2015-16.
Now we are wiser, everyone is pretty sure there will be Conservative majority governments forever and ever in foreseeable future.
Getting rid of Scotland will help.
Well, it was your number one fear factor/vote attractor and Labour were so ill-led that they didn't even realise it for weeks. People in Harlow will be less scared of Labour if that happens. And whosever watch it's under will be rather discredited as a prime minister.
Agree entirely. Fear did its job and nobody will fall for that scam again. Might as well get rid of Scotland now and save the cash.
Warm school milk in summer was bad. Frozen school milk in winter was bad. But far worse was being forced to drink frozen milk which had been warmed up on school radiators. Schools used to stink of stale milk all the time except the first day of term.
'Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper calling for a public enquiry on the 1980's miners strike. Something's with labour never change - do they seriously want to govern again'
Just trying to show their left wing credentials, strange they never mentioned it before.
Warm school milk in summer was bad. Frozen school milk in winter was bad. But far worse was being forced to drink frozen milk which had been warmed up on school radiators. Schools used to stink of stale milk all the time except the first day of term.
My only memory of free school milk was a boy at my table lifting his glass up to his mouth, rather spectacularly missing so it hit his forehead, then proceeding to pour the contents over his face and uniform.
Just as a side note, there appear to be quite a number of foreign looking fellas with military gear in Tunisia at the moment. Not like a few advisors but proper kitted out lads with light machinery.
Been rumours of some activity there deep in the Southern region for about a year but this looks a bit different.
'Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper calling for a public enquiry on the 1980's miners strike. Something's with labour never change - do they seriously want to govern again'
Just trying to show their left wing credentials, strange they never mentioned it before.
So when can we expect the judge-led enquiry on the Great Fire of 1666?
"Mary Creagh has dropped out of the Labour leadership race, expressing her dismay at Ed Miliband’s attitude to business and urging the next leader not to regard business as a vested interest with which to pick a fight. "
Even as she bows out, she doesn't miss an opportunity to kick poor Ed.
It's becoming a theme for alot of Labour MPs, soon it will be as though he never existed...!
I did however like the milk that you could buy in tetrahedral carton from Express Dairy milk machines - that was fresh and cold. As an added bonus the shape was rather cool!
'Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper calling for a public enquiry on the 1980's miners strike. Something's with labour never change - do they seriously want to govern again'
Just trying to show their left wing credentials, strange they never mentioned it before.
I'd quite like the bloody miners to pay for all that police overtime. I'd really like there to be a law which allows the state to recover the cost of policing your nonsense. There are a lot of now high-flying individuals that had some hand in rabble-rousing and thus police costs. Whilst we're doing that lawyers potentially could be held liable for wasting court time.
I'm sure that I can be easily persuaded that such extreme measures would be a very bad idea indeed, but just for a moment I'd like to contemplate the pained expressions of those who, frankly, think they can make an arse out of everyone else.
I can't imagine anyone thinks Farron is the right leader for the LDs. He's just not leaderly. They have to work out how they can elect someone else (Lamb), and make it seem like a good thing. Lamb has two things going for him - he's not Farron, and noone really knows who he is - so he'll some space to make his case to the electorate. They should just ask Clegg to resume the leadership in my view, although I presume that's an impossibility.
It always favoured conservative candidates, so the moderate candidates stopped coming. So now leading conservatives such as Huckabee announced they would not come as it only serves to pit conservatives against conservatives.
I find the idea of citing examples really odd by those who weren't alive at the time and have no direct experience of it. It's often political mythology and swallowed whole by ardent supporters who simply aren't interested in the actualite.
I wouldn't dream of pontificating about Attlee et al. I'm comfortable relating experiences from the early/mid 70s onwards.
Sky paper review had an old hand from the network, and one young, one older chap doing the review. Young chap referred to Thatcher the milk snatcher. Sky man replied that he was glad when the milk went because it was either warm and horrid or frozen with lumpy bits. Other older man agreed, at which point the airhead youth said it was 'before his time'.
The myth will outlast the truth on that account, and others.
It's my understanding, though it's not my period, the same is true of World War One and the 'idiocy' of the generals. Some people even think Caesar was superior to Hannibal, you know.
[mode=tongue in cheek] So you are calling Mr Dancer and TSE 'odd' when they sabre-rattle over Caesar and Hannibal? That's a brave opinion; especially when one of them is absolutely and undeniably correct.
No serious military historian would dispute Hannibal's genius.
The Miners strike was entirely about one thing... Arthur Scargill,s ambition to bring down the democratically elected Government..The miners were duped into thinking it was about them.
Yep. Credit should be given to Nottinghamshire miners, many of whom did not fall for the Scargill line. Sadly families are still split by the after-effects of the strike, over thirty years on.
Just as a side note, there appear to be quite a number of foreign looking fellas with military gear in Tunisia at the moment. Not like a few advisors but proper kitted out lads with light machinery.
Been rumours of some activity there deep in the Southern region for about a year but this looks a bit different.
Maybe they are just going desert buggy racing.
Does Johnny Foreigner look French? Or Foreign Legion?
Danish update - latest 6 polls all show centre-right leads, from 1 to 4%. Time to close any Thorning bets.
Could be like June 1970. A long-standing Conservative lead suddenly vanishes, prompting the government to call a snap election which they narrowly lose.
Interesting article, Stodge. FWIW, my critique of Farron - who I consider a decent chap - is as follows.
Firstly, there is a genuine concern that he's liberal until it conflicts with his religious values. That's a thing that can apply to all of us... we're all about the tolerance until it causes discomfort, then we look for excuses. Lamb has his own limits no doubt, but who's the fingertip liberal? It's Norman.
Secondly, both had the chance to enact their values.one did, while the other played the long game. Wise by Tim... but more than a shade of the Captain Darlings about it. Lamb is the man you'd want with you in the trenches.
Finally, Farron may well believe not being minister is a get out of jail card. It isn't. He sat on the Government benches, and the centre left won't easily forgive... It's like Clegg pointing out he favoured a change to our student fees policy pre 2010... true, but one for the specialists, not one which butters parsnips. Lamb may actually be better at something because he understand it's a problem, while Farron suspects it isn't.
Sadly, it looks like Harriet Harman's respect for fair elections does not extend to the rest of the Labour party. Like David Cameron, many of them would prefer to rig an election so that taxpayer money supports one side. I wish our governing class could have a stronger belief in democratic principles.
I also saw an opinion poll today showing how "In" gets a big bump in the result due to the distorted question wording, although I can not find the article now. Eurosceptics have a right to be aggrieved, and unless corrections are made, they will have every right to demand a second referendum.
The Miners strike was entirely about one thing... Arthur Scargill,s ambition to bring down the democratically elected Government..The miners were duped into thinking it was about them.
Yep. Credit should be given to Nottinghamshire miners, many of whom did not fall for the Scargill line. Sadly families are still split by the after-effects of the strike, over thirty years on.
Mass picketing was all about stopping people from going about their lawful business.
Radio 5 had a phone-in during a teachers' strike a couple of years ago. A man phoned in saying that he was keeping his teenage son away from school. If his son tried to go in, he would call him a 'scab'' and disown him.
I could barely believe the guy was being serious. Absolute, sheer lunacy.
Farron or Lamb...who cares? the former 'boring and sanctimonious' as recently remarked...the latter just boring. Neither likely to avoid the slide towards irrelevance
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An assessment which strikes me as a bit weird, given we are yet to see whether the Gove revolution (it's still going on despite Nicky Morgan now as education secretary) really does improve education, and whether private involvement in state services does lead to better outcomes, or indeed whether IDS can be successful with his universal credit program. Many of these projects are still in the making, and I'd wager it will be the outcome of these project that will decide how the political landscape looks.
Even on the economy I'd argue the Conservatives aren't on completely steady ground. By 2020, they will have been power for ten years - they will have to take responsibility for their own economic record. As such much of their record on competence will depend on Osborne's handling of the economy in the next five years - can he meet his targets, are polices such as Right to Buy successful, is the housing crisis resolved/remedied to some degree, do wages start to rise, how is another economic downturn handled et al.
I think you've also made very good points on the EU, welfare, and for that matter I'd mention the HRA too. Handling issues such as these with a small majority will take a careful approach, and it's still questionable as to whether Cameron can do this successfully. In the coalition years, Cameron had 57 LD MPs as buffer to the influence of his Right Wing. Now, he will have to try and work with them. I think some have been especially quick to compare Cameron to Thatcher and Churchill - much of Cameron's legacy is still yet to be decided. People talk of him winning the Scottish Ref, and I always thought that was an odd notion. In nation like Scotland, which isn't a fan of the Tories at all, I'd wager that the uncertainty of independence was far more crucial in determining the outcome then Scots thinking how great Cameron was. Furthermore the United Kingdom is arguably more divided now after the referendum, than it was before, with Cameron's GE rhetoric hardly helping that.
Five years is a very long time.
And Labour claim anyone not supporting Labour is a Tory
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/bbc-chief-too-close-to-labour-claims-ex-colleague.22317694
Firstly, there is a genuine concern that he's liberal until it conflicts with his religious values. That's a thing that can apply to all of us... we're all about the tolerance until it causes discomfort, then we look for excuses. Lamb has his own limits no doubt, but who's the fingertip liberal? It's Norman.
Secondly, both had the chance to enact their values.one did, while the other played the long game. Wise by Tim... but more than a shade of the Captain Darlings about it. Lamb is the man you'd want with you in the trenches.
Finally, Farron may well believe not being minister is a get out of jail card. It isn't. He sat on the Government benches, and the centre left won't easily forgive... It's like Clegg pointing out he favoured a change to our student fees policy pre 2010... true, but one for the specialists, not one which butters parsnips. Lamb may actually be better at something because he understand it's a problem, while Farron suspects it isn't.
Ps I believe site rules are that we are not allowed to discuss banning etc. "Train set ownership", it's my ball etc etc.
*Puts on a Conservative hat* (1)
You can't blame the Conservatives for getting a bit excited right now. The election result was so unexpected and such a pleasant surprise for a party which had not won an outright majority since 1992 - and then in equally surprising circumstances.
It was a bit like watching your football team being 3-0 down with ten minutes to go, then seeing it come storming back to win 4-3!
I agree that nothing is certain in politics ("events" and all that). But if there are no game-changing events between now and 2020 then Labour can't just rely on Tory slip-ups to win by default. They have to be a credible opposition.
*Takes off Conservative hat *
(1) A Conservative hat is a baseball cap with "Property of William Hague on the label".
As ever people are over analysing far too much. There are a load of 'events' to happen yet between now and 2020. Wading through those are what politics is about.
Do you have any references?
Rachel Dolezal exposes our delusional constructions and perceptions of race.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/12/rachel-dolezal-delusional-construction-perception-of-race
Or one could say, ‘delusional white girl lies about her ethnicity, her parentage, her adopted siblings which she passes off as her own children, makes claims of abuse that she received at the hands of racists, including threats, break-ins, and nooses being left at her workplace for what ever purpose and sneaks a place to University meant for black and ethnic minorities.’
This story just gets more bizarre...!
I agree with you that Labour definitely do need to be a credible opposition. And whether they can is still up in the air. I don't think Labour is as doomed as many on here do, but I'm very uncertain as to what direction they'll go in.
Labour might be wise not to concentrate the light of justice too strongly on events, lest people remember that Billy Elliot was only one side off the story.
I believe the norkleporglish will support Lamb.
On a serious note, I think I'd be inclined the back Lamb, but then, I'm not a Lib Dem.
I was right. He's scum.
(I'm sorry if that hurts your sense of propriety NPXMPMPMPXX, but the people of Stafford and the surrpunding area were hurt much, much more)
And just for cultural context - this was so long ago, Den and Angie were still running the Queen Vic.
Related this before, but it's worth doing again.
Sky paper review had an old hand from the network, and one young, one older chap doing the review. Young chap referred to Thatcher the milk snatcher. Sky man replied that he was glad when the milk went because it was either warm and horrid or frozen with lumpy bits. Other older man agreed, at which point the airhead youth said it was 'before his time'.
The myth will outlast the truth on that account, and others.
It's my understanding, though it's not my period, the same is true of World War One and the 'idiocy' of the generals. Some people even think Caesar was superior to Hannibal, you know.
I took a Murphy's law approach to the LDs prior to the election. The only places I lost money was where I backed them in their 'strongholds', such as Eastleigh.
I wouldn't dream of pontificating about Attlee et al. I'm comfortable relating experiences from the early/mid 70s onwards.
And don't forget David Wilkie either:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_David_Wilkie
So you are calling Mr Dancer and TSE 'odd' when they sabre-rattle over Caesar and Hannibal?
That's a brave opinion; especially when one of them is absolutely and undeniably correct.
But your analogy is wrong.
It's not that their team came back from 3-0 down to squeeze through 4-3.
It was rather more workmanlike performance but with a comfortable margin of victory in the final analysis - let's say 2-0, one in the eye for Labour and an even sweeter one for the Lib Dems. It's just that the supporters thought they were 3-0 down, because they hadn't noticed the goals were disallowed and didn't count, and the scoreboard was showing the wrong result til they updated it right after the final whistle.
As a result of all the overtime earned Plod wore T Shirts with the following emblazoned on the front
ASPOM
Arthur Scargill pays our mortgages.
https://twitter.com/Marnerbanana/status/608976669458767873
https://twitter.com/Marnerbanana/status/609039737257627650
When there was a hung parliament in 2010-15, everyone was pretty sure there would be another hung parliament in 2015-16.
Now we are wiser, everyone is pretty sure there will be Conservative majority governments forever and ever in foreseeable future.
I've been reading this board for many years, and don't think I've ever seen a poster seriously claim that the Tories were on course for a landslide in Scotland.
Many predictions made by the more enthusiastic/excitable/optimistic Tory supporters here have not come to pass, that much is true. But discussion of Conservative prospects in Scotland has pretty much always been tempered. The Tories almost got twice as many seats in Scotland than Labour did, but I don't think anyone has been crowing this as a great Tory success except with a hint of irony.
1979 31.4% 22 / 72
1983 28.4% 21 / 72
1987 24.0% 10 / 72
1992 25.8% 11 / 72
1997 17.5% 0 / 72
2001 15.6% 1 / 72
2005 15.8% 1 / 59
2010 16.7% 1 / 59
2015 14.9% 1 / 59
Might as well get rid of Scotland now and save the cash.
Have you traded out of England or are you backing them?
'Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper calling for a public enquiry on the 1980's miners strike. Something's with labour never change - do they seriously want to govern again'
Just trying to show their left wing credentials, strange they never mentioned it before.
http://bit.ly/1Gjob15
Just as a side note, there appear to be quite a number of foreign looking fellas with military gear in Tunisia at the moment. Not like a few advisors but proper kitted out lads with light machinery.
Been rumours of some activity there deep in the Southern region for about a year but this looks a bit different.
Maybe they are just going desert buggy racing.
Even as she bows out, she doesn't miss an opportunity to kick poor Ed.
It's becoming a theme for alot of Labour MPs, soon it will be as though he never existed...!
I did however like the milk that you could buy in tetrahedral carton from Express Dairy milk machines - that was fresh and cold. As an added bonus the shape was rather cool!
65 needed off 45...
I'm sure that I can be easily persuaded that such extreme measures would be a very bad idea indeed, but just for a moment I'd like to contemplate the pained expressions of those who, frankly, think they can make an arse out of everyone else.
I dunno, it just doesn't excite me in the slightest. Nor is it a source of amusement a la Labour.
I also saw an opinion poll today showing how "In" gets a big bump in the result due to the distorted question wording, although I can not find the article now. Eurosceptics have a right to be aggrieved, and unless corrections are made, they will have every right to demand a second referendum.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11669031/Labour-split-on-David-Camerons-EU-referendum-purdah-position.html
I could barely believe the guy was being serious. Absolute, sheer lunacy.