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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » We are more than six months away from the primaries yet the

SystemSystem Posts: 12,218
edited June 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » We are more than six months away from the primaries yet the betting suggests that WH16 is almost all settled

With all the focus on the British general election and its aftermath we’ve tended to ignore what’s set to be massive political betting event – the 2016 White House race. What I like about them is the whole series of events and elections that lead to the first Tuesday in November when the voters actually decide.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,978
    edited June 2015
    It'll be just like 1992 for the Colonials.

    Just like it was 1992 all over again in Blighty this year
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    The primary school population in England has continued to rise sharply, with 94,000 extra pupils this year, reaching the highest levels since the 1970s.

    The 2.1% increase in primary numbers is equivalent to six more pupils for every school.

    "Minority ethnic pupils made up 71% of the increase," says the Department for Education's school census report.

    The annual figures show there are now more super-sized primary schools.

    It will mean more funding demands to create extra places and pressure on places for families looking for schools.

    There are now 87 primary schools with more than 800 pupils, up from 77 in 2014 and 58 in 2013.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33094304

    Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone except Labour, when almost uncontrolled immigration is allowed.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,150
    "Why do people say "grow some balls"? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna be tough, grow a vagina. Those things can take a pounding."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,978
    Interesting move by Andy Burnham

    Labour leadership contender Andy Burnham today said he was prepared to offer a “helping hand” to rivals without enough nominations to stand in the contest.

    Mr Burnham said he would agree to push some of his backers towards other contenders to ensure they made the final shortlist if they needed help to get “over the line”.

    It came as the shadow health secretary’s support grew even further to 60 MPs — almost double the required number of 35

    http://bit.ly/1FUOZ4u
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    As has been the case on and off for a couple of years, you can get better odds on the next president being a woman than on the next president being Hillary - in some cases even at the same bookie. This seems curious.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,870
    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    On the GOP side, on past form we can expect many shifts in sentiment before things settle down. At the moment Jeb Bush seems to be falling back in the race; that could change, but in general laying the favourite at this stage has proven quite a good strategy, with a view to trading out later.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    Someone wanted 5-1 on Brexit.

    I will give 5-1 on the United Kingdom ceasing to be a part of Europe within the next ten years**.

    I'm happy to take bets of any size.


    ** For the purposes of this bet, "ceasing to be a part of Europe" refers to the geographical location of the United Kingdom. So long as the distance between London, England and Brussels, Belgium is less than the distance between London, England and Washington DC, USA, then the United Kingdom will be considered to be a part of Europe.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,150
    rcs1000 said:

    Someone wanted 5-1 on Brexit.

    I will give 5-1 on the United Kingdom ceasing to be a part of Europe within the next ten years**.

    I'm happy to take bets of any size.


    ** For the purposes of this bet, "ceasing to be a part of Europe" refers to the geographical location of the United Kingdom. So long as the distance between London, England and Brussels, Belgium is less than the distance between London, England and Washington DC, USA, then the United Kingdom will be considered to be a part of Europe.

    The distance from Washington to London is less than that from Washington to Honolulu :)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    A short video of Tsipiras today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZX4i3UAPdo

    Does he look happy or sad?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    I'm sorry but I can't leave the "best Guardian thread ever" theme without re-mentioning this. It gives me so much pleasure to re-read it, almost as much as pre-GE Polly articles.

    This is the best thread ever

    wherein the author uses some spurious stats to support her argument about trafficked women in nail bars.

    And the best comment:
    Since you and the author don't seem to understand percentages, here's the plain English translation: your article is claiming that one person in 637 in the UK (including children and the elderly) is a trafficked Vietnamese manicurist. Does this sound plausible to you?

    If they are all women, then this would mean one in 315 females of all ages in the UK is a trafficked Vietnamese manicurist. And if we assume they are between fifteen and forty-five, and this age range accounts for half of females, then they would be one in about 150 females in the range. If they are all on the game, as you claim, then even if they only have one client a night, then on any given day, one British man in 300 (ages 15 to 80) pays for sex with a tired trafficked Vietnamese nail manicurist. If they each had ten clients a night, then that would be one British man in 30 paying for sex with a trafficked Vietnamese nail manicurist - each day!

    Does this seem plausible to you?
  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    Off topic

    Just over 30% of primary school kids are from an ethnic minority

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33094304

    Does this include Poles/Latvians etc? If so it's not that surprising

    If NOT, it seems a very large number to my untrained eyes. Total numbers of pupils increasing a lot, over 2% in a year.

    Not to politicians: EXPECT THESE PUPILS TO ALSO GO TO SECONDARY SCHOOL IN A FEW YEARS AND PLAN ACCORDINGLY

    (Capitals because history tells us they are a bit slow on the uptake and to plan for these things...)
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited June 2015
    OT Apparently the children of west Lothian all go to bed hungry every night..and it is all the Tories fault..does anyone really accept that tosh
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,234

    Interesting move by Andy Burnham

    Labour leadership contender Andy Burnham today said he was prepared to offer a “helping hand” to rivals without enough nominations to stand in the contest.

    Mr Burnham said he would agree to push some of his backers towards other contenders to ensure they made the final shortlist if they needed help to get “over the line”.

    It came as the shadow health secretary’s support grew even further to 60 MPs — almost double the required number of 35

    http://bit.ly/1FUOZ4u

    Burnham will benefit from lefties being motivated to vote - he is likely to pick up their second preferences. Therefore he wants Corbyn on the ballot.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,150
    TOPPING said:

    I'm sorry but I can't leave the "best Guardian thread ever" theme without re-mentioning this. It gives me so much pleasure to re-read it, almost as much as pre-GE Polly articles.

    This is the best thread ever

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/11/milifan-prime-minister-ed-miliband
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    LOL - epic :smiley:
    TOPPING said:

    I'm sorry but I can't leave the "best Guardian thread ever" theme without re-mentioning this. It gives me so much pleasure to re-read it, almost as much as pre-GE Polly articles.

    This is the best thread ever

    wherein the author uses some spurious stats to support her argument about trafficked women in nail bars.

    And the best comment:

    Since you and the author don't seem to understand percentages, here's the plain English translation: your article is claiming that one person in 637 in the UK (including children and the elderly) is a trafficked Vietnamese manicurist. Does this sound plausible to you?

    If they are all women, then this would mean one in 315 females of all ages in the UK is a trafficked Vietnamese manicurist. And if we assume they are between fifteen and forty-five, and this age range accounts for half of females, then they would be one in about 150 females in the range. If they are all on the game, as you claim, then even if they only have one client a night, then on any given day, one British man in 300 (ages 15 to 80) pays for sex with a tired trafficked Vietnamese nail manicurist. If they each had ten clients a night, then that would be one British man in 30 paying for sex with a trafficked Vietnamese nail manicurist - each day!

    Does this seem plausible to you?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    @TOPPING

    Awesome...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited June 2015

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,150

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    Vladimir Putin
    Lover of the Russian queen
    There was a cat that really was gone
    Vladimir Putin
    Russia's greatest love machine
    It was a shame how he carried on



    :lol:
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    edited June 2015

    Off topic

    Just over 30% of primary school kids are from an ethnic minority

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33094304

    Does this include Poles/Latvians etc? If so it's not that surprising

    If NOT, it seems a very large number to my untrained eyes. Total numbers of pupils increasing a lot, over 2% in a year.

    Not to politicians: EXPECT THESE PUPILS TO ALSO GO TO SECONDARY SCHOOL IN A FEW YEARS AND PLAN ACCORDINGLY

    (Capitals because history tells us they are a bit slow on the uptake and to plan for these things...)

    No it does not include Slavs, or any other Europeans. High immigration and differing fertility rates.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    edited June 2015
    Iowa Walker
    NH Walker or Paul
    SC ?
    Nevada Paul

    Bush has no chance. NH will be key.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited June 2015
    On topic, I beg to differ.
    The focus groups of republican voters in Iowa and N.Hampshire are strongly against Bush as they think he is unelectable, also he is the second most unpopular republican after Chris Christie within his own party.

    And there are more nails on his coffin today:
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/10/shaming-unwed-moms-was-the-law-in-jeb-bush-s-florida.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/09/jeb-bush-1995-book_n_7542964.html

    "Public shaming would be an effective way to regulate the “irresponsible behavior” of unwed mothers, misbehaving teenagers and welfare recipients, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) argued in his 1995 book Profiles in Character.

    In a chapter called "The Restoration of Shame,” the likely 2016 presidential candidate made the case that restoring the art of public humiliation could help prevent pregnancies “out of wedlock.”

    "Bush points to Nathaniel Hawthorne's 1850 novel The Scarlet Letter, in which the main character is forced to wear a large red "A" for "adulterer" on her clothes to punish her for having an extramarital affair that produced a child, as an early model for his worldview. "Infamous shotgun weddings and Nathaniel Hawthorne's Scarlet Letter are reminders that public condemnation of irresponsible sexual behavior has strong historical roots,” Bush wrote."

    So Bush is in favour to force people to wear symbols on their clothes to point them as social outcasts, what's next? Will jews be forced to wear the star of david?
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179

    Interesting move by Andy Burnham

    Labour leadership contender Andy Burnham today said he was prepared to offer a “helping hand” to rivals without enough nominations to stand in the contest.

    Mr Burnham said he would agree to push some of his backers towards other contenders to ensure they made the final shortlist if they needed help to get “over the line”.

    It came as the shadow health secretary’s support grew even further to 60 MPs — almost double the required number of 35

    http://bit.ly/1FUOZ4u

    One assumes he's calculated that he is likely to benefit from this state of affairs, than some purely altruistic belief in democracy....

    Presumably the concern is that supporters of those who don't get on will plump for one of the others who do get on?

    Typical scheming socialist!
  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    FalseFlag said:

    Off topic

    Just over 30% of primary school kids are from an ethnic minority

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33094304

    Does this include Poles/Latvians etc? If so it's not that surprising

    If NOT, it seems a very large number to my untrained eyes. Total numbers of pupils increasing a lot, over 2% in a year.

    Not to politicians: EXPECT THESE PUPILS TO ALSO GO TO SECONDARY SCHOOL IN A FEW YEARS AND PLAN ACCORDINGLY

    (Capitals because history tells us they are a bit slow on the uptake and to plan for these things...)

    No it does not include Slavs, or any other Europeans. High immigration and differing fertility rates.
    Blimey.

    30% BME then, on average. I would have thought only a few inner city areas hit that level anywhere, but that implies it's well above that in many places. Must be to balance out the <<5% in most rural areas.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    By the way, I was shocked today to discover there are British Overseas Territories where the Euro is the official currency.

    Can anyone name them?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    rcs1000 said:

    By the way, I was shocked today to discover there are British Overseas Territories where the Euro is the official currency.

    Can anyone name them?

    Some military bases in cyprus I guess.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,234
    rcs1000 said:

    By the way, I was shocked today to discover there are British Overseas Territories where the Euro is the official currency.

    Can anyone name them?

    Is one of them the Costa del Sol?
  • Clinton, yes nailed on.

    Bush, unlikely I'd say. Can't really see why he'd stand out over other 2016 GOP contenders. He's not a very good speech maker, he hasn't won an election since 2002, and his last name is Bush.

    Rand Paul would be the best shout for the GOP in terms of the general election, however I think they are going to pick Walker of Rubio.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    rcs1000 said:

    A short video of Tsipiras today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZX4i3UAPdo

    Does he look happy or sad?

    First time I've seen him not smiling. I guess the reports from the Guardian yesterday were not correct ...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,706
    Bet the US are glad they moved away from heredity as a principle of govt.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,978

    Interesting move by Andy Burnham

    Labour leadership contender Andy Burnham today said he was prepared to offer a “helping hand” to rivals without enough nominations to stand in the contest.

    Mr Burnham said he would agree to push some of his backers towards other contenders to ensure they made the final shortlist if they needed help to get “over the line”.

    It came as the shadow health secretary’s support grew even further to 60 MPs — almost double the required number of 35

    http://bit.ly/1FUOZ4u

    One assumes he's calculated that he is likely to benefit from this state of affairs, than some purely altruistic belief in democracy....

    Presumably the concern is that supporters of those who don't get on will plump for one of the others who do get on?

    Typical scheming socialist!
    Lest we forget, in 2010,

    With help from unlikely sources, Diane Abbott made it on to the ballot to contest the Labour leadership, where the backbencher – admittedly Cambridge educated herself – will take on four white, male Oxbridge educated ex-cabinet ministers who were all special advisers before becoming MPs.

    David Miliband, one of the contenders, transferred his nomination to Abbott, the leftwing MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington, this morning, 24 hours after acting Labour leader Harriet Harman did the same in an attempt to get a woman on to the ballot.

    http://bit.ly/1S7zZsN
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    By the way, I was shocked today to discover there are British Overseas Territories where the Euro is the official currency.

    Can anyone name them?

    Some military bases in cyprus I guess.
    Very good :-)
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    As has been the case on and off for a couple of years, you can get better odds on the next president being a woman than on the next president being Hillary - in some cases even at the same bookie. This seems curious.

    Perhaps there is some question of her real sex? ;)
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Clinton, yes nailed on.

    Bush, unlikely I'd say. Can't really see why he'd stand out over other 2016 GOP contenders. He's not a very good speech maker, he hasn't won an election since 2002, and his last name is Bush.

    Rand Paul would be the best shout for the GOP in terms of the general election, however I think they are going to pick Walker of Rubio.

    Kasich would be the GOP's best bet in the general but his immediate problem is visibility, and his longer-term problem is winning the nomination. But I agree that the two front runners are now Rubio and Walker. Bush will hang in until the end of the nomination process because he will have gobs of money and the backing of the old Establishment. But he is lacklustre and a Bush (even if on paper he would be the best Bush in the shrubbery).

    Of course, this far out, many a slip twist cup and lip.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,978
    He should have gloated....

    Argentina president attacks 'ill-mannered' Cameron over Falklands

    http://bit.ly/1GvCrFn
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    MTimT said:

    Clinton, yes nailed on.

    Bush, unlikely I'd say. Can't really see why he'd stand out over other 2016 GOP contenders. He's not a very good speech maker, he hasn't won an election since 2002, and his last name is Bush.

    Rand Paul would be the best shout for the GOP in terms of the general election, however I think they are going to pick Walker of Rubio.

    Kasich would be the GOP's best bet in the general but his immediate problem is visibility, and his longer-term problem is winning the nomination. But I agree that the two front runners are now Rubio and Walker. Bush will hang in until the end of the nomination process because he will have gobs of money and the backing of the old Establishment. But he is lacklustre and a Bush (even if on paper he would be the best Bush in the shrubbery).

    Of course, this far out, many a slip twist cup and lip.
    I like Walker - but I think he'd lose to Hillary.

    Rubio would beat her, but I have this sneaking feeling that the Republicans won't choose him.

    Rand Paul would be an incredible result from a betting perspective...
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    By the way, I was shocked today to discover there are British Overseas Territories where the Euro is the official currency.

    Can anyone name them?

    Some military bases in cyprus I guess.
    Very good :-)
    I believe they are called Sovereign Base Areas.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    rcs1000 said:

    MTimT said:

    Clinton, yes nailed on.

    Bush, unlikely I'd say. Can't really see why he'd stand out over other 2016 GOP contenders. He's not a very good speech maker, he hasn't won an election since 2002, and his last name is Bush.

    Rand Paul would be the best shout for the GOP in terms of the general election, however I think they are going to pick Walker of Rubio.

    Kasich would be the GOP's best bet in the general but his immediate problem is visibility, and his longer-term problem is winning the nomination. But I agree that the two front runners are now Rubio and Walker. Bush will hang in until the end of the nomination process because he will have gobs of money and the backing of the old Establishment. But he is lacklustre and a Bush (even if on paper he would be the best Bush in the shrubbery).

    Of course, this far out, many a slip twist cup and lip.
    I like Walker - but I think he'd lose to Hillary.

    Rubio would beat her, but I have this sneaking feeling that the Republicans won't choose him.

    Rand Paul would be an incredible result from a betting perspective...
    Never underestimate Walker, regardless of his conservative views. His attack on the nexus of public sector workers and unions being the tail that wags local government and budgets has hit a very strong nerve even in Purple and Light Blue states. Hell, even Maryland, the deepest of deep Blue states, is fed up with all the extra taxes O'Malley introduced.

    Walker will have higher negatives than Rubio or any other GOP frontrunner, but he'll drive the base better, and probably win over many more independents than most would predict, who will discount his conservatism in favour of his realism on the (un)sustainability of benefits and wages in the public sector.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Agreed, but alas just for the female tick in the box (admittedly, a fairly important tick in the GOP's countering of the 'war on women' charge). She is a failed businesswoman and a failed politician, so far.
  • MTimT said:

    Clinton, yes nailed on.

    Bush, unlikely I'd say. Can't really see why he'd stand out over other 2016 GOP contenders. He's not a very good speech maker, he hasn't won an election since 2002, and his last name is Bush.

    Rand Paul would be the best shout for the GOP in terms of the general election, however I think they are going to pick Walker of Rubio.

    Kasich would be the GOP's best bet in the general but his immediate problem is visibility, and his longer-term problem is winning the nomination. But I agree that the two front runners are now Rubio and Walker. Bush will hang in until the end of the nomination process because he will have gobs of money and the backing of the old Establishment. But he is lacklustre and a Bush (even if on paper he would be the best Bush in the shrubbery).

    Of course, this far out, many a slip twist cup and lip.
    Yes Kasich would be a very solid candidate indeed, he'd likely carry Ohio. However I believe he has embraced certain elements of Obamacare (medicare expansion I think), which while sensible policy is terrible politics within the GOP.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @alexsmith1982: Seeing the contours of a plan in this week's Times: 3-year break clause for Labour leader, happily coinciding with DMil 5-year IRC break.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    rcs1000 said:

    By the way, I was shocked today to discover there are British Overseas Territories where the Euro is the official currency.

    Can anyone name them?

    Calais?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,870
    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    Odd as it may seem, I don't actually 'back' Russia, but I do back sanity. Russia is the world's biggest nuclear power, has vast energy resources, and occupies an important geopolitical sphere bridging East and West. And despite the fact that Vladimir Putin is a de facto Dictator, it is also by no stretch of the imagination the most undemocratic, unfree, or grottiest regime that we deal with. There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment, beyond the fact that it's the US' current agenda, and we all have to fall in line.

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Scott_P said:

    @alexsmith1982: Seeing the contours of a plan in this week's Times: 3-year break clause for Labour leader, happily coinciding with DMil 5-year IRC break.

    How is David Miliband meant to get back into Parliament?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    edited June 2015
    MTimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    By the way, I was shocked today to discover there are British Overseas Territories where the Euro is the official currency.

    Can anyone name them?

    Some military bases in cyprus I guess.
    Very good :-)
    I believe they are called Sovereign Base Areas.
    On the subject of Sovereigns.... Anyone know if tim paid the equivalent of a sov into the pb.com fund, for the bet he lost to me? I haven't heard a peep, but did say I'd be happy enough for him to pay it to help OGH maintain this place....

    (In case anyone is in contact with him, it was his bet with me that Labour would get more than 34% of the UK wide vote at the General Election. Entered into around the time of the "Omnishambles" budget.... You know, that one that laid the groundwork for winning the election. Or losing it on the Pasty Tax, depending on your position.)
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/us/politics/hillary-clinton-traces-friendly-path-troubling-party.html?referrer=

    Lower class whites in the upper Midwest will be the key, Walker has staked out positions on immigration, even name checking Jeff Sessions, that will help aside from the fact he doesn't have Romney's background. I wouldn't underestimate him.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MTimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MTimT said:

    Clinton, yes nailed on.

    Bush, unlikely I'd say. Can't really see why he'd stand out over other 2016 GOP contenders. He's not a very good speech maker, he hasn't won an election since 2002, and his last name is Bush.

    Rand Paul would be the best shout for the GOP in terms of the general election, however I think they are going to pick Walker of Rubio.

    Kasich would be the GOP's best bet in the general but his immediate problem is visibility, and his longer-term problem is winning the nomination. But I agree that the two front runners are now Rubio and Walker. Bush will hang in until the end of the nomination process because he will have gobs of money and the backing of the old Establishment. But he is lacklustre and a Bush (even if on paper he would be the best Bush in the shrubbery).

    Of course, this far out, many a slip twist cup and lip.
    I like Walker - but I think he'd lose to Hillary.

    Rubio would beat her, but I have this sneaking feeling that the Republicans won't choose him.

    Rand Paul would be an incredible result from a betting perspective...
    Never underestimate Walker, regardless of his conservative views. His attack on the nexus of public sector workers and unions being the tail that wags local government and budgets has hit a very strong nerve even in Purple and Light Blue states.
    Except for Unions that back his election campaign, apparently. He is the epitome of union cronyism and a nationwide general election campaign would expose him.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,978
    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @alexsmith1982: Seeing the contours of a plan in this week's Times: 3-year break clause for Labour leader, happily coinciding with DMil 5-year IRC break.

    How is David Miliband meant to get back into Parliament?
    If Ed Miliband had any decency, he'd stand down as an MP for Doncaster North, and let David Miliband take over
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    rcs1000 said:

    By the way, I was shocked today to discover there are British Overseas Territories where the Euro is the official currency.

    Can anyone name them?

    Akrotiri and Dhekelia ^_~
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302

    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment, beyond the fact that it's the US' current agenda, and we all have to fall in line.

    We're lucky David Miliband is no longer Foreign Secretary given his tendency to patronise the Russians.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,234
    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @alexsmith1982: Seeing the contours of a plan in this week's Times: 3-year break clause for Labour leader, happily coinciding with DMil 5-year IRC break.

    How is David Miliband meant to get back into Parliament?
    He could always try his luck in Richmond Park
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    Breaking Grexit from the FT:

    "The International Monetary Fund is pulling out of negotiations with Greece in Brussels at least temporarily, citing "major differences" and a lack of progress in key areas."

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Right wing English rag Dundee Courier:

    Deputy First Minister John Swinney has leapt to the defence of the SNP's plan for full fiscal autonomy despite Scottish Parliament analysis which found that plummeting oil prices could lead to a £9.7 million cut in public spending.

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/snp-defends-fiscal-autonomy-plan-1.883171
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @alexsmith1982: Seeing the contours of a plan in this week's Times: 3-year break clause for Labour leader, happily coinciding with DMil 5-year IRC break.

    How is David Miliband meant to get back into Parliament?
    It's easy to forget that before the 2010 Labour contest, when we all assumed David Mili would win, it was I think assumed that he was a metropolitan wonk and a geek and probably unelectable - "Bananaman" and all that. I was entirely relaxed about Brown being replaced by Miliband, D.

    I still think Cameron would be PM even if DM had beaten his brother.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited June 2015
    Alistair said:

    MTimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MTimT said:

    Clinton, yes nailed on.

    Bush, unlikely I'd say. Can't really see why he'd stand out over other 2016 GOP contenders. He's not a very good speech maker, he hasn't won an election since 2002, and his last name is Bush.

    Rand Paul would be the best shout for the GOP in terms of the general election, however I think they are going to pick Walker of Rubio.

    Kasich would be the GOP's best bet in the general but his immediate problem is visibility, and his longer-term problem is winning the nomination. But I agree that the two front runners are now Rubio and Walker. Bush will hang in until the end of the nomination process because he will have gobs of money and the backing of the old Establishment. But he is lacklustre and a Bush (even if on paper he would be the best Bush in the shrubbery).

    Of course, this far out, many a slip twist cup and lip.
    I like Walker - but I think he'd lose to Hillary.

    Rubio would beat her, but I have this sneaking feeling that the Republicans won't choose him.

    Rand Paul would be an incredible result from a betting perspective...
    Never underestimate Walker, regardless of his conservative views. His attack on the nexus of public sector workers and unions being the tail that wags local government and budgets has hit a very strong nerve even in Purple and Light Blue states.
    Except for Unions that back his election campaign, apparently. He is the epitome of union cronyism and a nationwide general election campaign would expose him.
    A very much nationalized recall election, followed by a nationalized re-election have fully exposed all there is to know on his election financing and any cronyism. Nothing new on that score will come out in the general. His weakness is foreign policy, not what he did in Wisconsin.

    Also, the unions he exempted were unions the general public has most sympathy for - IIRC firefighters and police.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MTimT said:

    Alistair said:

    MTimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MTimT said:

    Clinton, yes nailed on.

    Bush, unlikely I'd say. Can't really see why he'd stand out over other 2016 GOP contenders. He's not a very good speech maker, he hasn't won an election since 2002, and his last name is Bush.

    Rand Paul would be the best shout for the GOP in terms of the general election, however I think they are going to pick Walker of Rubio.

    Kasich would be the GOP's best bet in the general but his immediate problem is visibility, and his longer-term problem is winning the nomination. But I agree that the two front runners are now Rubio and Walker. Bush will hang in until the end of the nomination process because he will have gobs of money and the backing of the old Establishment. But he is lacklustre and a Bush (even if on paper he would be the best Bush in the shrubbery).

    Of course, this far out, many a slip twist cup and lip.
    I like Walker - but I think he'd lose to Hillary.

    Rubio would beat her, but I have this sneaking feeling that the Republicans won't choose him.

    Rand Paul would be an incredible result from a betting perspective...
    Never underestimate Walker, regardless of his conservative views. His attack on the nexus of public sector workers and unions being the tail that wags local government and budgets has hit a very strong nerve even in Purple and Light Blue states.
    Except for Unions that back his election campaign, apparently. He is the epitome of union cronyism and a nationwide general election campaign would expose him.
    A very much nationalized recall election, followed by a nationalized re-election have fully exposed all there is to know on his election financing and any cronyism. Nothing new on that score will come out in the general. His weakness is foreign policy, not what he did in Wisconsin.

    Also, the unions he exempted were unions the general public has most sympathy for - IIRC firefighters and police.
    The Dem national leadership didn't touch the recall election with a barge poll.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Right wing English rag Dundee Courier:

    Deputy First Minister John Swinney has leapt to the defence of the SNP's plan for full fiscal autonomy despite Scottish Parliament analysis which found that plummeting oil prices could lead to a £9.7 million cut in public spending.

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/snp-defends-fiscal-autonomy-plan-1.883171

    @ScottyNational: OBR : SNP confirms dramatic reduction in oil revenue would not be an issue for FFA. Provided people don't want schools, hospitals or stuff
  • JunglelandJungleland Posts: 40
    Interesting that Bush has picked Danny Diaz as his campaign manager, he worked for Susana Martinez recently, a Bush-Martinez ticket would beat Hilary.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952

    Right wing English rag Dundee Courier:

    Deputy First Minister John Swinney has leapt to the defence of the SNP's plan for full fiscal autonomy despite Scottish Parliament analysis which found that plummeting oil prices could lead to a £9.7 million cut in public spending.

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/snp-defends-fiscal-autonomy-plan-1.883171

    £9.7 MILLION cut you say, eh Courier? Try again.

    "In a significant blow to the Scottish National party’s quest for full fiscal autonomy, the OBR said it now believed the sector could only generate a total of about £2bn in tax revenues over the 20 years from 2020 to 2041, compared with its forecast last year of £37bn for the same period."

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/11/scotland-fiscal-autonomy-north-sea-oil-tax-forecast-slashed-obr
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,870

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    What about it?

  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    You saying Kiev fired the missile that shot down MH17?

    Must be a lonely world you inhabit.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    At a personal level, I'm rather nervous about Osborne announcing swingeing cuts to child tax credits. Having seen my brother in law recently leave my sister and 3 young kids to run off with his fancy woman, and knowing how much she is relying on tax credits and similar to keep them afloat and in their home, reading the reports this morning really brought it home to me thinking about how much she cannot afford to see an axe taken to what she's currently getting. She's in work, a trained professional working part time and raising 3 children. I'd feel very bad if the party I just voted for went and kicked her in the teeth.

    And it would be such an open goal for Labour, the Lib Dems and SNP.

    There must be other ways of making cuts to the welfare budget?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    At a personal level, I'm rather nervous about Osborne announcing swingeing cuts to child tax credits. Having seen my brother in law recently leave my sister and 3 young kids to run off with his fancy woman, and knowing how much she is relying on tax credits and similar to keep them afloat and in their home, reading the reports this morning really brought it home to me thinking about how much she cannot afford to see an axe taken to what she's currently getting. She's in work, a trained professional working part time and raising 3 children. I'd feel very bad if the party I just voted for went and kicked her in the teeth.

    And it would be such an open goal for Labour, the Lib Dems and SNP.

    There must be other ways of making cuts to the welfare budget?
    There's always OAP benefits.

    But OAPs vote so no chance of them being cut.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,870

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    You saying Kiev fired the missile that shot down MH17?

    Must be a lonely world you inhabit.
    I know this must sound other worldly to you living on a malnourished diet of MSM tripe, but it hasn't actually been established who, or what, shot down MH17. A week of Putin bogeyman headlines does not evidence make.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    What about it?

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    Which version of the Russian versions do you subscribe to?

    There have been so many......
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    You saying Kiev fired the missile that shot down MH17?

    Must be a lonely world you inhabit.
    I know this must sound other worldly to you living on a malnourished diet of MSM tripe, but it hasn't actually been established who, or what, shot down MH17. A week of Putin bogeyman headlines does not evidence make.

    The 'western' version has been pretty consistent from the first few days. BUK missile fired by (or on behalf of) pro-Russia militias.....

    The 'Russian' version has had so many iterations I've lost track - do you have a favourite?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/22/mh17-five-bizarre-conspiracy-theories-zionist-plots-illuminati-russian-tv
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    Russia (and the purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    What about it?

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    Which version of the Russian versions do you subscribe to?

    There have been so many......
    The actual version. Try reading Frontline Ukraine by Richard Sakwa, we have many respected experts on the region in this country, it's a shame they are ignored. One of the many reasons the HoL slammed this government's approach to the crisis.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @alexsmith1982: Seeing the contours of a plan in this week's Times: 3-year break clause for Labour leader, happily coinciding with DMil 5-year IRC break.

    How is David Miliband meant to get back into Parliament?
    If Ed Miliband had any decency, he'd stand down as an MP for Doncaster North, and let David Miliband take over
    Just talking about a Milliband engenders such a feeling of ennui.

    Prezza has it right.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    You saying Kiev fired the missile that shot down MH17?

    Must be a lonely world you inhabit.
    I know this must sound other worldly to you living on a malnourished diet of MSM tripe, but it hasn't actually been established who, or what, shot down MH17. A week of Putin bogeyman headlines does not evidence make.

    Yeah, right.... Thanks for that clear, evidence-based rebuttal.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,952
    TOPPING said:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @alexsmith1982: Seeing the contours of a plan in this week's Times: 3-year break clause for Labour leader, happily coinciding with DMil 5-year IRC break.

    How is David Miliband meant to get back into Parliament?
    If Ed Miliband had any decency, he'd stand down as an MP for Doncaster North, and let David Miliband take over
    Just talking about a Milliband engenders such a feeling of ennui.

    Prezza has it right.
    Brand Miliband has been completely buggered by the Kid....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,978
    edited June 2015

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    You saying Kiev fired the missile that shot down MH17?

    Must be a lonely world you inhabit.
    I know this must sound other worldly to you living on a malnourished diet of MSM tripe, but it hasn't actually been established who, or what, shot down MH17. A week of Putin bogeyman headlines does not evidence make.

    Yeah, right.... Thanks for that clear, evidence-based rebuttal.
    I feel a bit narked.

    Putin is spending lots of money on an online army of Pro Russian trolls/sock puppets and we get the Roubleland versions.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,870

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    You saying Kiev fired the missile that shot down MH17?

    Must be a lonely world you inhabit.
    I know this must sound other worldly to you living on a malnourished diet of MSM tripe, but it hasn't actually been established who, or what, shot down MH17. A week of Putin bogeyman headlines does not evidence make.

    The 'western' version has been pretty consistent from the first few days. BUK missile fired by (or on behalf of) pro-Russia militias.....

    The 'Russian' version has had so many iterations I've lost track - do you have a favourite?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/22/mh17-five-bizarre-conspiracy-theories-zionist-plots-illuminati-russian-tv
    Do you really enjoy being patronised by that Buzzfeed style Garbage? Where's any technical info in that article? Where's any form of forensic evidence? Where's any form of cogent reasoning? Where's anything beyond 'Look, let's make any alternative to our story seem silly by bringing up transforming lizards'. It's brain rotting idiot fodder.

    I don't pretend to know what happened, and since the official reports haven't yet concluded anything, neither can you.


  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    I agree. Clinton-Bush isn't carved in stone.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    edited June 2015

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    You saying Kiev fired the missile that shot down MH17?

    Must be a lonely world you inhabit.
    I know this must sound other worldly to you living on a malnourished diet of MSM tripe, but it hasn't actually been established who, or what, shot down MH17. A week of Putin bogeyman headlines does not evidence make.

    Yeah, right.... Thanks for that clear, evidence-based rebuttal.
    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/05/28/a-reckless-stand-upper-on-mh-17/

    http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/a-1037125.html

    Germans again using Spiegel to brief against the US. Interestingly the US hasn't updated their analysis since the event.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    rcs1000 said:

    Breaking Grexit from the FT:

    "The International Monetary Fund is pulling out of negotiations with Greece in Brussels at least temporarily, citing "major differences" and a lack of progress in key areas."

    Do you think kicking Greece out the Euro would lead to it strengthening or weakening ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,150
    edited June 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    By the way, I was shocked today to discover there are British Overseas Territories where the Euro is the official currency.

    Can anyone name them?

    Akrotiri and Dhekelia
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    You saying Kiev fired the missile that shot down MH17?

    Must be a lonely world you inhabit.
    I know this must sound other worldly to you living on a malnourished diet of MSM tripe, but it hasn't actually been established who, or what, shot down MH17. A week of Putin bogeyman headlines does not evidence make.

    The 'western' version has been pretty consistent from the first few days. BUK missile fired by (or on behalf of) pro-Russia militias.....

    The 'Russian' version has had so many iterations I've lost track - do you have a favourite?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/22/mh17-five-bizarre-conspiracy-theories-zionist-plots-illuminati-russian-tv
    I don't pretend to know what happened, and since the official reports haven't yet concluded anything, neither can you.
    A final report has not yet been issued - but what we know so far is that:

    The report said MH17 crashed due to a "large number of high-energy objects" penetrating the fuselage. "There are no indications that the MH17 crash was caused by a technical fault or by actions of the crew...

    Russian authorities have suggested in the past that other theories were possible, including that the plane may have been shot down from the air. However, the report found no military aircraft in the vicinity.

    "It's consistent with a hit by a ground missile," said Joris Melkert, a lecturer in aerospace engineering at the Technical University of Delft. "What could cause a pattern of high velocity particles 10 kilometers up in the sky?


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/09/us-ukraine-crisis-mh17-investigation-idUSKBN0H40LM20140909
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    Russia (and the purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    What about it?

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    Which version of the Russian versions do you subscribe to?

    There have been so many......
    Try reading Frontline Ukraine by Richard Sakwa,
    Who does he say shot down MH17?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    At a personal level, I'm rather nervous about Osborne announcing swingeing cuts to child tax credits. Having seen my brother in law recently leave my sister and 3 young kids to run off with his fancy woman, and knowing how much she is relying on tax credits and similar to keep them afloat and in their home, reading the reports this morning really brought it home to me thinking about how much she cannot afford to see an axe taken to what she's currently getting. She's in work, a trained professional working part time and raising 3 children. I'd feel very bad if the party I just voted for went and kicked her in the teeth.

    And it would be such an open goal for Labour, the Lib Dems and SNP.

    There must be other ways of making cuts to the welfare budget?
    That's the problems with cuts: it is easy to give money away, and the people who pay (taxpayers) are diffuse. When it comes to cuts, the people who get hurt are a great deal more concentrated and make for stories the media love.

    That does not mean cuts are unnecessary or unavoidable though.

    Hopefully changes in the law such as the CSA (if it was ever improved after the farces of the early days) should help your sister. Is the b-i-l paying CSA?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,150

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    You saying Kiev fired the missile that shot down MH17?

    Must be a lonely world you inhabit.
    I know this must sound other worldly to you living on a malnourished diet of MSM tripe, but it hasn't actually been established who, or what, shot down MH17. A week of Putin bogeyman headlines does not evidence make.

    The 'western' version has been pretty consistent from the first few days. BUK missile fired by (or on behalf of) pro-Russia militias.....

    The 'Russian' version has had so many iterations I've lost track - do you have a favourite?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/22/mh17-five-bizarre-conspiracy-theories-zionist-plots-illuminati-russian-tv
    I don't pretend to know what happened, and since the official reports haven't yet concluded anything, neither can you.
    A final report has not yet been issued - but what we know so far is that:

    The report said MH17 crashed due to a "large number of high-energy objects" penetrating the fuselage. "There are no indications that the MH17 crash was caused by a technical fault or by actions of the crew...

    Russian authorities have suggested in the past that other theories were possible, including that the plane may have been shot down from the air. However, the report found no military aircraft in the vicinity.

    "It's consistent with a hit by a ground missile," said Joris Melkert, a lecturer in aerospace engineering at the Technical University of Delft. "What could cause a pattern of high velocity particles 10 kilometers up in the sky?


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/09/us-ukraine-crisis-mh17-investigation-idUSKBN0H40LM20140909
    Ukraine also has BUK missiles?
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    MTimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    By the way, I was shocked today to discover there are British Overseas Territories where the Euro is the official currency.

    Can anyone name them?

    Some military bases in cyprus I guess.
    Very good :-)
    I believe they are called Sovereign Base Areas.
    On the subject of Sovereigns.... Anyone know if tim paid the equivalent of a sov into the pb.com fund, for the bet he lost to me? I haven't heard a peep, but did say I'd be happy enough for him to pay it to help OGH maintain this place....

    (In case anyone is in contact with him, it was his bet with me that Labour would get more than 34% of the UK wide vote at the General Election. Entered into around the time of the "Omnishambles" budget.... You know, that one that laid the groundwork for winning the election. Or losing it on the Pasty Tax, depending on your position.)
    I am in occasional touch with him and several weeks ago I offered to do so on your behalf for that wager. But had no response; not complaining and I'm happy to be the intermediary.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    You saying Kiev fired the missile that shot down MH17?

    Must be a lonely world you inhabit.
    I know this must sound other worldly to you living on a malnourished diet of MSM tripe, but it hasn't actually been established who, or what, shot down MH17. A week of Putin bogeyman headlines does not evidence make.

    Yeah, right.... Thanks for that clear, evidence-based rebuttal.
    I feel a bit narked.

    Putin is spending lots of money on an online army of Pro Russian trolls/sock puppets and we get the Roubleland versions.
    To be fair on our pro-Putin trolls, Russia is skint and they are trying to do sockpuppetry on a shoestring.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Breaking Grexit from the FT:

    "The International Monetary Fund is pulling out of negotiations with Greece in Brussels at least temporarily, citing "major differences" and a lack of progress in key areas."

    Do you think kicking Greece out the Euro would lead to it strengthening or weakening ?
    Yes...

  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    Alistair said:

    At a personal level, I'm rather nervous about Osborne announcing swingeing cuts to child tax credits. Having seen my brother in law recently leave my sister and 3 young kids to run off with his fancy woman, and knowing how much she is relying on tax credits and similar to keep them afloat and in their home, reading the reports this morning really brought it home to me thinking about how much she cannot afford to see an axe taken to what she's currently getting. She's in work, a trained professional working part time and raising 3 children. I'd feel very bad if the party I just voted for went and kicked her in the teeth.

    And it would be such an open goal for Labour, the Lib Dems and SNP.

    There must be other ways of making cuts to the welfare budget?
    There's always OAP benefits.

    But OAPs vote so no chance of them being cut.
    The best way to cut the welfare bill would be to get rid of the ridiculous triple lock and freeze the state pension for a couple of years.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Breaking Grexit from the FT:

    "The International Monetary Fund is pulling out of negotiations with Greece in Brussels at least temporarily, citing "major differences" and a lack of progress in key areas."

    Do you think kicking Greece out the Euro would lead to it strengthening or weakening ?
    Yes...

    The articles I'm looking at point to it weakening - but surely in theory a Eurozone without Greece would be stronger !
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. And please note I said 'too often', not 'always') when putting forth an at best equally foggy version of the truth, and at worse a far more insulting version of it.
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    You saying Kiev fired the missile that shot down MH17?

    Must be a lonely world you inhabit.
    I know this must sound other worldly to you living on a malnourished diet of MSM tripe, but it hasn't actually been established who, or what, shot down MH17. A week of Putin bogeyman headlines does not evidence make.

    Yeah, right.... Thanks for that clear, evidence-based rebuttal.
    we get the Roubleland versions.
    We should be so lucky....more like 'Two for a Kopeck'.....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,656
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Breaking Grexit from the FT:

    "The International Monetary Fund is pulling out of negotiations with Greece in Brussels at least temporarily, citing "major differences" and a lack of progress in key areas."

    Do you think kicking Greece out the Euro would lead to it strengthening or weakening ?
    Yes...

    The articles I'm looking at point to it weakening - but surely in theory a Eurozone without Greece would be stronger !
    This is not a forecast...
    But I would suspect the first reaction to Grexit would be a sell off in the Euro, as there would be an immediate concern that Portugal or Spain could follow.

    When Portugal and Spain did not follow, and the Eurozone found itself not worrying about the problems in Greece, then I'd think it might strengthen, perhaps considerably.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    edited June 2015
    I'm in on Scott Walker, Jeb and a wild, wild one on Carly Fiorina. Rand Paul looking interesting at around 20/1 at the moment. I might take the plunge.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504


    Ukraine also has BUK missiles?

    Indeed. But only the revel side was shooting down many aircraft at that time, including several that very week (MH17 was shot down on the 17th July):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ukrainian_aircraft_losses_during_the_Ukrainian_crisis

    They killed 49 people on an IL76 military transport a month before.

    The rebels had the means, the track record, and the motive to be shooting down aircraft.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    not on fire So not only the children of west Lothian would go to bed hungry..their grandparents would too..
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    At a personal level, I'm rather nervous about Osborne announcing swingeing cuts to child tax credits. Having seen my brother in law recently leave my sister and 3 young kids to run off with his fancy woman, and knowing how much she is relying on tax credits and similar to keep them afloat and in their home, reading the reports this morning really brought it home to me thinking about how much she cannot afford to see an axe taken to what she's currently getting. She's in work, a trained professional working part time and raising 3 children. I'd feel very bad if the party I just voted for went and kicked her in the teeth.

    And it would be such an open goal for Labour, the Lib Dems and SNP.

    There must be other ways of making cuts to the welfare budget?
    That's the problems with cuts: it is easy to give money away, and the people who pay (taxpayers) are diffuse. When it comes to cuts, the people who get hurt are a great deal more concentrated and make for stories the media love.

    That does not mean cuts are unnecessary or unavoidable though.

    Hopefully changes in the law such as the CSA (if it was ever improved after the farces of the early days) should help your sister. Is the b-i-l paying CSA?
    This is the point isn't it? if the BiL runs off then he still needs to pay maintenance and or part with money according to the terms of the divorce. One person alone, despite any settlement etc is still however tough.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited June 2015

    I'm in on Scott Walker, Jeb and a wild, wild one on Carly Fiorina. Rand Paul looking interesting at around 20/1 at the moment. I might take the plunge.

    On the GOP nomination I think it could be Walker provided he doesn't bomb in the debates.
    But Hillary will win easily in probably the most loopsided result since 1988 or 1996 against all republican candidates with the exception of Rand Paul.
    Using the old rule book of republicans never nominating the most electable candidate it excludes Rand Paul from the nomination.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    not on fire So not only the children of west Lothian would go to bed hungry..their grandparents would too..

    Freezing the state pension when inflation is currently -0.1% is not going to hurt anyone. Ridiculous that pensioners are about to get a 2.5% real terms freebie.
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    FalseFlag said:

    kle4 said:

    FPT:

    I'm exceedingly proud of UKIP for speaking sense on Russia. It would be very easy for them to wrap themselves in the flag 'Fox News' style and Russia-bash even more than everyone else to get some positive press. Instead they've decided to speak truth to power and challenge the utter absurdity of our American-dictated posture toward Russia.

    While no fan of us being subsurvient to the americans to the degree we often are, it just as easy for people to posture as heroic truthspeakers when backing Russia (and that is thekey here - it's not enough that we too are guilty of playing geopolitical games, too often the Russia defenders must pretend the Russians are purer than pure on such matters. snip
    There is no justification either morally or self-interestedly for the Russia-baiting that is going on at the moment
    MH17?

    I was flying that day.......LHR-HKG
    It was the Kiev government that decided to launch a military campaign rather than negotiate, at the behest of the US and the opposition of the major European powers.
    You saying Kiev fired the missile that shot down MH17?

    Must be a lonely world you inhabit.
    I know this must sound other worldly to you living on a malnourished diet of MSM tripe, but it hasn't actually been established who, or what, shot down MH17. A week of Putin bogeyman headlines does not evidence make.

    The 'western' version has been pretty consistent from the first few days. BUK missile fired by (or on behalf of) pro-Russia militias.....

    The 'Russian' version has had so many iterations I've lost track - do you have a favourite?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/22/mh17-five-bizarre-conspiracy-theories-zionist-plots-illuminati-russian-tv
    Do you really enjoy being patronised by that Buzzfeed style Garbage? Where's any technical info in that article? Where's any form of forensic evidence? Where's any form of cogent reasoning? Where's anything beyond 'Look, let's make any alternative to our story seem silly by bringing up transforming lizards'. It's brain rotting idiot fodder.
    I don't pretend to know what happened, and since the official reports haven't yet concluded anything, neither can you.
    Rebels assisted by Russians with a Russian missile, shoot down an innocent airliner thinking it was a military cargo plane and all of a sudden, just for a change, you do not pretend to know anything.
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