Who is Barack Obama to intervene in the UK domestic debate on our EU membership? Perhaps he has a leg to stand once the US accepts a pan-American legislature with primacy over Congress and unlimited immigration from Latin America.
I suppose the same way the US Justice Department and the FBI is looking into FIFA Corruption. Strictly speaking, Blazer is fair enough and correct. But if one country gave a bribe to a person in another country , none of which is the US, what business is it of theirs ?
Would we allow the Chinese or the Russians to do the same ? What would happen if Russia issued a warrant for Salazar's arrest ?
Because money was alleged to have been used via American banks for unlawful purposes the US believes it has the right to prosecute.
If that is true it is a sign that even if he gets no deal at all then Cameron is intending campaigning for 'In'. So much for a decision based on the results of the negotiation.
I'm sure Obama would not have intervened without Cameron's request also. It seems clear that Cameron would stay in the EU come what may. If the negotiations falter, let's hope some of his ministers are more intellectually honest. If the deal is a weak one I suspect the biggest beast campaigning for out will be the next Tory leader, whatever the referendum result.
I quite liked Sol Campbell as a footballer. He was great for England in 98. I cannot see him as mayor though, too prickly and chippy for front line politics.
GeoffM Agree on Russia. On the railways they should also be offered a BR sandwich but misguided or not there is no doubt there is nostalgia for BR amongst a large segment of the population
And some people will tell us how things were in the fifties... How wonderful it was etc. The fact is we are used to our standards of living and the service we get from those we do business with to get better and better. We expect them to respond to our needs, not just when it suits them.
The angry at things in life do not necessarily equate into electability though.
I think the same wrong-minded nostalgia also applies to the European Union. The time before EU markets is seen as a golden age, when really Britain spent the sixties wondering if there was any way to revive its uncompetitive industries and keep up with German and French economic growth, before deciding it was by joining the Common Market!
At which point we found that didn't work either and our balance of trade collapsed to add to all our other woes. It would take Thatcher to finally revive our fortunes. Membership of the EEC/ EU had nothing to do with it and has held us back as a country both economically and politically.
Regarding balance of trade: I think that is largely a function of the amount of money flowing into the UK as it is seen as a global safe haven (like the US). It's hard to run a trade surplus when so much hot money is coming into - for example - the UK property market.
Except that the balance of trade deficit - particularly with the various countries of the EEC/EU started long before we became a global safe haven and is not only a function of investment but also of trade in goods.
Its also a sign of our style of national economic confidence that we're willing to import. America has long had a trade deficit for similar reasons. No individual reform will ever remove the trade deficit.
Regarding Cameron's edict to Tory Ministers on the EU - I think that is going a bit too far. Labour cabinet members campaigned on opposite sides and so did the Tory shadow team. I don't think that was why Labour lost in 1979. If I recall the EC was hardly mentioned. It was the Unions........
Ultimately, the gang of four formed the SDP but most of the formidable Europhiles stayed with Labour. Healey, Smith, Hattersley etc.. The root of the split may have been Europe but the main reason of the split was a left wing Union based takeover of the party.
What Cameron edict? Do you have a link to this edict? Or an unbiased source with it?
If that is true it is a sign that even if he gets no deal at all then Cameron is intending campaigning for 'In'. So much for a decision based on the results of the negotiation.
Cameron's words don't suggest that at all. So much for all the 'so muchfers'.
Who is Barack Obama to intervene in the UK domestic debate on our EU membership? Perhaps he has a leg to stand once the US accepts a pan-American legislature with primacy over Congress and unlimited immigration from Latin America.
I suppose the same way the US Justice Department and the FBI is looking into FIFA Corruption. Strictly speaking, Blazer is fair enough and correct. But if one country gave a bribe to a person in another country , none of which is the US, what business is it of theirs ?
Would we allow the Chinese or the Russians to do the same ? What would happen if Russia issued a warrant for Salazar's arrest ?
Because money was alleged to have been used via American banks for unlawful purposes the US believes it has the right to prosecute.
If any transaction passed through any part of the US banks (including overseas operations) or financial system, that will trigger the feds investigating. Obviously any COnCACAF or Conmibol(?) transactions would have. Once an investigation starts it leads wherever it leads. Notice how initially it was the Swiss who were investigating the 2018 and 2022 world cup awards, then the FBI said it was too.
If that is true it is a sign that even if he gets no deal at all then Cameron is intending campaigning for 'In'. So much for a decision based on the results of the negotiation.
I'm sure Obama would not have intervened without Cameron's request also. It seems clear that Cameron would stay in the EU come what may. If the negotiations falter, let's hope some of his ministers are more intellectually honest. If the deal is a weak one I suspect the biggest beast campaigning for out will be the next Tory leader, whatever the referendum result.
Yeah, cos Obama is Cameron's poodle!
Has any political leader supported the UK leaving the EU? In the Brics or the Commonwealth or in Nafta?
If that is true it is a sign that even if he gets no deal at all then Cameron is intending campaigning for 'In'. So much for a decision based on the results of the negotiation.
I'm sure Obama would not have intervened without Cameron's request also. It seems clear that Cameron would stay in the EU come what may. If the negotiations falter, let's hope some of his ministers are more intellectually honest. If the deal is a weak one I suspect the biggest beast campaigning for out will be the next Tory leader, whatever the referendum result.
Its not intellectually dishonest to want to stay in the EU but to think the EU can be reformed to be better. It is no different whatsoever to those that want Out come what may.
If In wins the referendum then I think the next Tory leader would either have been neutral or In. I and many other Tories want to move on from Europe one way or another after this referendum, electing an Out leader right after an In vote would be electoral suicide.
Who is Barack Obama to intervene in the UK domestic debate on our EU membership? Perhaps he has a leg to stand once the US accepts a pan-American legislature with primacy over Congress and unlimited immigration from Latin America.
I suppose the same way the US Justice Department and the FBI is looking into FIFA Corruption. Strictly speaking, Blazer is fair enough and correct. But if one country gave a bribe to a person in another country , none of which is the US, what business is it of theirs ?
Would we allow the Chinese or the Russians to do the same ? What would happen if Russia issued a warrant for Salazar's arrest ?
Because money was alleged to have been used via American banks for unlawful purposes the US believes it has the right to prosecute.
If any transaction passed through any part of the US banks (including overseas operations) or financial system, that will trigger the feds investigating. Obviously any COnCACAF or Conmibol(?) transactions would have. Once an investigation starts it leads wherever it leads. Notice how initially it was the Swiss who were investigating the 2018 and 2022 world cup awards, then the FBI said it was too.
Regarding Cameron's edict to Tory Ministers on the EU - I think that is going a bit too far. Labour cabinet members campaigned on opposite sides and so did the Tory shadow team. I don't think that was why Labour lost in 1979. If I recall the EC was hardly mentioned. It was the Unions........
Ultimately, the gang of four formed the SDP but most of the formidable Europhiles stayed with Labour. Healey, Smith, Hattersley etc.. The root of the split may have been Europe but the main reason of the split was a left wing Union based takeover of the party.
What Cameron edict? Do you have a link to this edict? Or an unbiased source with it?
If that is true it is a sign that even if he gets no deal at all then Cameron is intending campaigning for 'In'. So much for a decision based on the results of the negotiation.
I'm sure Obama would not have intervened without Cameron's request also. It seems clear that Cameron would stay in the EU come what may. If the negotiations falter, let's hope some of his ministers are more intellectually honest. If the deal is a weak one I suspect the biggest beast campaigning for out will be the next Tory leader, whatever the referendum result.
Yeah, cos Obama is Cameron's poodle!
Has any political leader supported the UK leaving the EU? In the Brics or the Commonwealth or in Nafta?
You forget some more of the deluded Kippers thought Cameron and Obama colluded last year to derail UKIP's conference and bomb ISIS.
Who is Barack Obama to intervene in the UK domestic debate on our EU membership? Perhaps he has a leg to stand once the US accepts a pan-American legislature with primacy over Congress and unlimited immigration from Latin America.
I suppose the same way the US Justice Department and the FBI is looking into FIFA Corruption. Strictly speaking, Blazer is fair enough and correct. But if one country gave a bribe to a person in another country , none of which is the US, what business is it of theirs ?
Would we allow the Chinese or the Russians to do the same ? What would happen if Russia issued a warrant for Salazar's arrest ?
Because money was alleged to have been used via American banks for unlawful purposes the US believes it has the right to prosecute.
If any transaction passed through any part of the US banks (including overseas operations) or financial system, that will trigger the feds investigating. Obviously any COnCACAF or Conmibol(?) transactions would have. Once an investigation starts it leads wherever it leads. Notice how initially it was the Swiss who were investigating the 2018 and 2022 world cup awards, then the FBI said it was too.
Regarding Cameron's edict to Tory Ministers on the EU - I think that is going a bit too far. Labour cabinet members campaigned on opposite sides and so did the Tory shadow team. I don't think that was why Labour lost in 1979. If I recall the EC was hardly mentioned. It was the Unions........
Ultimately, the gang of four formed the SDP but most of the formidable Europhiles stayed with Labour. Healey, Smith, Hattersley etc.. The root of the split may have been Europe but the main reason of the split was a left wing Union based takeover of the party.
What Cameron edict? Do you have a link to this edict? Or an unbiased source with it?
In 75 the left were Out and the right were In. That continued until Jacques Delors term leading Europe.
In fact, his speech to the TUC conference where he asked the Comrades why were they against the EU. It was like a Monty-Python sketch. Comrades started asking each other, why indeed were they against the hated EU when the Popular Front for Permanent Capitalism were in power and the EU could be allies to bring in laws which the PFPC would never bring in.
If that is true it is a sign that even if he gets no deal at all then Cameron is intending campaigning for 'In'. So much for a decision based on the results of the negotiation.
I'm sure Obama would not have intervened without Cameron's request also. It seems clear that Cameron would stay in the EU come what may. If the negotiations falter, let's hope some of his ministers are more intellectually honest. If the deal is a weak one I suspect the biggest beast campaigning for out will be the next Tory leader, whatever the referendum result.
Yeah, cos Obama is Cameron's poodle!
Has any political leader supported the UK leaving the EU? In the Brics or the Commonwealth or in Nafta?
You forget some more of the deluded Kippers thought Cameron and Obama colluded last year to derail UKIP's conference and bomb ISIS.
So far as I can see, the only foreign politician calling for the break up of the EU is Putin, and even he equivocates a bit.
Tim Aker MEP @Tim_Aker 2m2 minutes ago Cameron's announcement that Ministers who want to leave the EU must resign shows he is going to fudge the referendum
If that is true it is a sign that even if he gets no deal at all then Cameron is intending campaigning for 'In'. So much for a decision based on the results of the negotiation.
I'm sure Obama would not have intervened without Cameron's request also. It seems clear that Cameron would stay in the EU come what may. If the negotiations falter, let's hope some of his ministers are more intellectually honest. If the deal is a weak one I suspect the biggest beast campaigning for out will be the next Tory leader, whatever the referendum result.
Yeah, cos Obama is Cameron's poodle!
Has any political leader supported the UK leaving the EU? In the Brics or the Commonwealth or in Nafta?
You forget some more of the deluded Kippers thought Cameron and Obama colluded last year to derail UKIP's conference and bomb ISIS.
So far as I can see, the only foreign politician calling for the break up of the EU is Putin, and even he equivocates a bit.
The best thing about the Kipper manlove for Putin is that they've stopped calling the EU the EUSSR.
Tim Aker MEP @Tim_Aker 2m2 minutes ago Cameron's announcement that Ministers who want to leave the EU must resign shows he is going to fudge the referendum
Fortunately UKIP's 102 MPs can amend the referendum legislation.
Regarding Cameron's edict to Tory Ministers on the EU - I think that is going a bit too far. Labour cabinet members campaigned on opposite sides and so did the Tory shadow team. I don't think that was why Labour lost in 1979. If I recall the EC was hardly mentioned. It was the Unions........
Ultimately, the gang of four formed the SDP but most of the formidable Europhiles stayed with Labour. Healey, Smith, Hattersley etc.. The root of the split may have been Europe but the main reason of the split was a left wing Union based takeover of the party.
The infamous Labour Manifesto of 1983 called for an exit from the EU (and incidentally NATO too). The SDP were solidly Europhile at that time, as was Mrs Thatchers Conservative party.
The SDP had already broken away. In fact, the by-election victories took place in 1982.
This may be factually accurate but as it's surbiton saying it I instinctively disbelieve. Could someone credible please confirm, cheers.
If that is true it is a sign that even if he gets no deal at all then Cameron is intending campaigning for 'In'. So much for a decision based on the results of the negotiation.
I'm sure Obama would not have intervened without Cameron's request also. It seems clear that Cameron would stay in the EU come what may. If the negotiations falter, let's hope some of his ministers are more intellectually honest. If the deal is a weak one I suspect the biggest beast campaigning for out will be the next Tory leader, whatever the referendum result.
Its not intellectually dishonest to want to stay in the EU but to think the EU can be reformed to be better. It is no different whatsoever to those that want Out come what may.
If In wins the referendum then I think the next Tory leader would either have been neutral or In. I and many other Tories want to move on from Europe one way or another after this referendum, electing an Out leader right after an In vote would be electoral suicide.
But it is intellectually dishonest to support remaining in come what may while pretending you haven't decided yet.
If that is true it is a sign that even if he gets no deal at all then Cameron is intending campaigning for 'In'. So much for a decision based on the results of the negotiation.
I'm sure Obama would not have intervened without Cameron's request also. It seems clear that Cameron would stay in the EU come what may. If the negotiations falter, let's hope some of his ministers are more intellectually honest. If the deal is a weak one I suspect the biggest beast campaigning for out will be the next Tory leader, whatever the referendum result.
Yeah, cos Obama is Cameron's poodle!
Has any political leader supported the UK leaving the EU? In the Brics or the Commonwealth or in Nafta?
Nothing to do with being a poodle. There's just a convention that allies don't interfere in each others' domestic politics unless they've been asked to by the relevant government.
Regarding Cameron's edict to Tory Ministers on the EU - I think that is going a bit too far. Labour cabinet members campaigned on opposite sides and so did the Tory shadow team. I don't think that was why Labour lost in 1979. If I recall the EC was hardly mentioned. It was the Unions........
Ultimately, the gang of four formed the SDP but most of the formidable Europhiles stayed with Labour. Healey, Smith, Hattersley etc.. The root of the split may have been Europe but the main reason of the split was a left wing Union based takeover of the party.
What Cameron edict? Do you have a link to this edict? Or an unbiased source with it?
In 75 the left were Out and the right were In. That continued until Jacques Delors term leading Europe.
In fact, his speech to the TUC conference where he asked the Comrades why were they against the EU. It was like a Monty-Python sketch. Comrades started asking each other, why indeed were they against the hated EU when the Popular Front for Permanent Capitalism were in power and the EU could be allies to bring in laws which the PFPC would never bring in.
Thus began the Left's love affair with the EU.
The Sun put it more memorably !
By the late eighties it was clear that the EU was a major protector of workers rights. It was the EWTD that brought about the reductions in the inhumane Doctors hours. In 1991 I once worked a 132 hour week!
The far right shifted from being pro-Europe as a trading area to anti-Europe because of the increasing interest of the EU in protecting workers rights.
Ironically the rise of the EU Social Chapter is the root cause of the decline in Trade Unionism. If ones rights as a worker are now infringed then we have a large body of law, often European in origin, to protect us.
If that is true it is a sign that even if he gets no deal at all then Cameron is intending campaigning for 'In'. So much for a decision based on the results of the negotiation.
I'm sure Obama would not have intervened without Cameron's request also. It seems clear that Cameron would stay in the EU come what may. If the negotiations falter, let's hope some of his ministers are more intellectually honest. If the deal is a weak one I suspect the biggest beast campaigning for out will be the next Tory leader, whatever the referendum result.
Yeah, cos Obama is Cameron's poodle!
Has any political leader supported the UK leaving the EU? In the Brics or the Commonwealth or in Nafta?
But kipper loons are sure are sure are sure are sure. Its so easy when you are so sure.
Tim Aker MEP @Tim_Aker 2m2 minutes ago Cameron's announcement that Ministers who want to leave the EU must resign shows he is going to fudge the referendum
Do you have a link to any such actual announcement, rather than just parroting UKIP claiming he made that announcement?
If that is true it is a sign that even if he gets no deal at all then Cameron is intending campaigning for 'In'. So much for a decision based on the results of the negotiation.
I'm sure Obama would not have intervened without Cameron's request also. It seems clear that Cameron would stay in the EU come what may. If the negotiations falter, let's hope some of his ministers are more intellectually honest. If the deal is a weak one I suspect the biggest beast campaigning for out will be the next Tory leader, whatever the referendum result.
Its not intellectually dishonest to want to stay in the EU but to think the EU can be reformed to be better. It is no different whatsoever to those that want Out come what may.
If In wins the referendum then I think the next Tory leader would either have been neutral or In. I and many other Tories want to move on from Europe one way or another after this referendum, electing an Out leader right after an In vote would be electoral suicide.
But it is intellectually dishonest to support remaining in come what may while pretending you haven't decided yet.
Has Cameron said he hasn't decided yet? He's said he's going to renegotiate first, which is his intention. He (and most senior Tories) have avoided being drawn in on a hypothetical failure in negotiations - which is sensible not dishonest. If you say you'd rather stay in regardless then you considerably weaken your hand while negotiating.
Thank you! Yes, I've been an avid reader of PB for months, but always seem to get around to doing so quite late, by which time the threads are quite long and the various subjects have been thoroughly talked through. Very pleased that I will be able to catch up on things in a chronologically more sensible fashion now that I know how to see a reverse order of the comment thread on each of the (usually) very excellent articles that appear here on a daily basis.
Comments
Sol Campbell today officially throws his hat in the ring for the race to be London Mayor – telling SunNation: “I’m in it to win it.”
The former Arsenal and Spurs star has decided to try and become the Tory candidate to succeed Boris Johnson in 2016.
http://bit.ly/1GtEf3F
Southern England was then more pro-EU than Scotland.
Has any political leader supported the UK leaving the EU? In the Brics or the Commonwealth or in Nafta?
If In wins the referendum then I think the next Tory leader would either have been neutral or In. I and many other Tories want to move on from Europe one way or another after this referendum, electing an Out leader right after an In vote would be electoral suicide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CONMEBOL
Thus began the Left's love affair with the EU.
The Sun put it more memorably !
I know it is painful but think of the greater good.
Cameron's announcement that Ministers who want to leave the EU must resign shows he is going to fudge the referendum
Time for a Godwinov law.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05/30/tim-farron-band-new-order-new-romantic-1980s_n_7476166.html
Oh
I was wrong. It was in 1981 !!!
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/607664444894789632
New Thread
The far right shifted from being pro-Europe as a trading area to anti-Europe because of the increasing interest of the EU in protecting workers rights.
Ironically the rise of the EU Social Chapter is the root cause of the decline in Trade Unionism. If ones rights as a worker are now infringed then we have a large body of law, often European in origin, to protect us.