The other thing I feel about the Middle East is that they should sort out their own messes. Every time the West intervenes, it gives people there the chance to blame all their ills on "Western intervention". It's a very adolescent viewpoint, though there is some truth in it. But, still, at some point you'd expect some degree of introspection and realisation that on pretty much every level the Middle East has failed, despite the advantages of oil wealth and that is simply not credible to blame all of this on everyone except themselves.
Well, fine: let them get on with it and one day they might grow up and realise that the mess that whole area is in is because of their ideology, culture and politics and they can, like adults, try and create something better or stew in what they've created.
My father who was born in early 20s hated British films until the end of his life. I think it might have been something to do with the UK quota quickies that British cinemas had to show before the main American one came on.
Barosso saying they have go-ahead to negotiate US-EU trade deal. Suspect the devil is in the detail...., eh Francois?
edit - Journo says 'France has secured 'cultural diversity exception' - so will US also seek exceptions' - Barosso says it was never on the table as 'Cultural Diversity' already protected by existing treaties.
"I don't watch many films, tbh, but film industries will survive if audiences want to see what they produce."
That's a massive over-simplification, which doesn't take account of resources for marketing and so on. And even in respect of TV, we've always taken the view that some quality programmes are well worth making even if they don't attract a mass audience.
"James is arguing a la Francais - we know it doesn't work in practice, but does it work in theory?"Of course it works in practice. France has very successfully maintained its film industry.
"Buttressed by state subsidies and partly sheltered from Hollywood predators, the French film industry has traditionally been regarded with envy by its European neighbours. Yet the Oscar-winning director Michel Hazanavicius has painted an altogether different picture. The domestic industry, he claims, has been damaged by inflated salaries and a culture of complacency. Quantity not quality, he suggests, has become the order of the day."
"James is arguing a la Francais - we know it doesn't work in practice, but does it work in theory?"
Of course it works in practice. France has very successfully maintained its film industry.
The language difference helps enormously. There's also this odd belief that all French cinema is great because of what is subtitled and exported. One sees the same view in relation US tv drama. In both cases that's false.
The risk is, of course, one of wedgedom. If this is important, equally there'll be arguments that, say, yoghurt producers are a key national treasure which should be exempt from competition.
'Wenders: loss of 'cultural exception' would be disaster'
German director Wim Wenders has waded into the increasingly fractious debate about the “cultural exception” possibly being abandoned in new trading relations between the EU and US. Wenders has insisted that the European film industry must have state subsidy and support if it is to survive.
“In Europe, cinema is part of our language, part of our culture, like painting or literature or music,” Wenders stated in a press briefing in Cannes. “If we accept the American proposition of using it (film) as industrial product, we pull the plug from our entire industry. A few years later, there will not be any more European movies.”
Wenders said the end of the “cultural exception” would be “a bigger disaster for Hollywood…if the entire underbelly of European movies was no longer there as a counterpart and enrichment.”
"I don't watch many films, tbh, but film industries will survive if audiences want to see what they produce."
That's a massive over-simplification, which doesn't take account of resources for marketing and so on. And even in respect of TV, we've always taken the view that some quality programmes are well worth making even if they don't attract a mass audience.
Let's have a playing field then. I'm all in favour of quality TV programmes and tend to watch BBC4 more than other channels but we don't need the French to protect the BBC.
If the French think their cinema industry is worth expanding then they can put money into marketing it. Or in making films that French audiences (and others) want to see. I rather feel that this is all about promoting the somewhat snobbish idea that France, above all, has some sort of superior culture to anyone else, especially those vulgar Americans.
Cyclefree : With the exception of Britain and Ireland, the film industries of all European countries suffer from not really having a substantial foreign market available due to the language issue. So no, they can't compete on a level playing field with Hollywood, and no amount of free market fantasy will change that.
The risk is, of course, one of wedgedom. If this is important, equally there'll be arguments that, say, yoghurt producers are a key national treasure which should be exempt from competition.
Absolutely correct. If we could have done this thirty years ago, we could have people driving Allegros and Marinas. No doubt some on here would argue that it would have protected the jobs, and that's what matters.
Cyclefree : With the exception of Britain and Ireland, the film industries of all European countries suffer from not really having a substantial foreign market available due to the language issue. So no, they can't compete on a level playing field with Hollywood, and no amount of free market fantasy will change that.
Why is there a language issue? If they want to succeed abroad, they should speak English. Musicians (e.g. Abba), do this.
Most French films are unbelievably boring..and I watch a fair nunber of them. Haviing said that they are just as tedious as some Brit films which would never see the light of day if we did not use the English language.
Cyclefree : With the exception of Britain and Ireland, the film industries of all European countries suffer from not really having a substantial foreign market available due to the language issue. So no, they can't compete on a level playing field with Hollywood, and no amount of free market fantasy will change that.
I'm not a free market fantasist James. But they all have substantial home markets and French and Italian and German and Spanish film-makers (this last have the South American market available to them if language really is the issue) have made some fantastic films over the years. I know because I've seen lots of them, probably more from them than I've ever viewed from Hollywood.
There is no Irish film industry, regardless of the fact that it shares a language with the US.
Re this Wim Wenders quote: "In Europe, cinema is part of our language, part of our culture, like painting or literature or music".
Is that really the case? At times certain films captured a moment in recent European history (Rossellinin and Fellini for Italy, for instance and some Visconti films) and some of the early French films. The Ealing comedies are emblematic of a particular view of a bit of England at one time.
But is European film really a part of our culture in the way that Shakespeare or Beethoven or the Beatles are?
Comments
Well, fine: let them get on with it and one day they might grow up and realise that the mess that whole area is in is because of their ideology, culture and politics and they can, like adults, try and create something better or stew in what they've created.
Will France be equally accommodating if, say, Britain wants special protection for its industries?
That's a massive over-simplification, which doesn't take account of resources for marketing and so on. And even in respect of TV, we've always taken the view that some quality programmes are well worth making even if they don't attract a mass audience.
The Darling Buds of May was met with a collective shrug in the Lanarkshire of the 1990s, but I'd still rather have had that than an American import.
There's this strange phrase that's crept into the BBC lexicon recently - "new British drama". It used to go without saying.
Of course it works in practice. France has very successfully maintained its film industry.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/may/07/michel-hazanavicius-lambasts-french-film-industry
The risk is, of course, one of wedgedom. If this is important, equally there'll be arguments that, say, yoghurt producers are a key national treasure which should be exempt from competition.
German director Wim Wenders has waded into the increasingly fractious debate about the “cultural exception” possibly being abandoned in new trading relations between the EU and US. Wenders has insisted that the European film industry must have state subsidy and support if it is to survive.
“In Europe, cinema is part of our language, part of our culture, like painting or literature or music,” Wenders stated in a press briefing in Cannes. “If we accept the American proposition of using it (film) as industrial product, we pull the plug from our entire industry. A few years later, there will not be any more European movies.”
Wenders said the end of the “cultural exception” would be “a bigger disaster for Hollywood…if the entire underbelly of European movies was no longer there as a counterpart and enrichment.”
http://www.screendaily.com/festivals/cannes/wenders-loss-of-cultural-exception-would-be-disaster/5056453.article
If the French think their cinema industry is worth expanding then they can put money into marketing it. Or in making films that French audiences (and others) want to see. I rather feel that this is all about promoting the somewhat snobbish idea that France, above all, has some sort of superior culture to anyone else, especially those vulgar Americans.
I have a truly horrible feeling you think that's a credible suggestion.
Is somebody forcing you to watch them at gunpoint, Richard?
There is no Irish film industry, regardless of the fact that it shares a language with the US.
Why does film deserve some special protection?
Because a large number of those fantastic European films you refer to simply won't get made without a continuation of special protection.
Is that really the case? At times certain films captured a moment in recent European history (Rossellinin and Fellini for Italy, for instance and some Visconti films) and some of the early French films. The Ealing comedies are emblematic of a particular view of a bit of England at one time.
But is European film really a part of our culture in the way that Shakespeare or Beethoven or the Beatles are?
The answer to that question in France would be an undisputed yes. It varies by country.