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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In praise of Lord Ashcroft – the UK’s leading commissioner

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited June 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In praise of Lord Ashcroft – the UK’s leading commissioner of political polling

To claim @lordashcroft has a “dangerous monopoly of political information” goes beyond hype telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/… its evidently nonsense

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Comments

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Which polling company does Lord Ashcroft use? This site has much to be grateful to him for - perhaps he should be accorded some sort of ceremonial honour by the site for his contribution to our collective knowledge?

    I've just been opinion polled on the relative merits of Boris and the current chap in No. 10. It is one of the few things that could change the current political balance of power that is directly within the power of the political class - all other potential game-changing events are in the power of outside forces.
  • peterbusspeterbuss Posts: 109
    Peter Oborne has a point though. Its the destructive and personal nature of the attacks on the PM which are so wrong.he is doing a great service on polling and no doubt generous with the info to people like OGH but OBorne's point is abo9ut Ashcrofts attacks on DC and on that Oborne is spot on.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949

    Which polling company does Lord Ashcroft use?

    I think he always uses Populous, if memory serves.

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    FPT
    "China was the richest country in the world from about 1AD to 1700AD. Then the Brits took over for a century and a half, maybe two at most, then the Americans took over in about 1870."

    Whatever the details of the dates China/India are further examples of innovation being the driver of long-term prosperity. China invented/developed a ton of stuff early on and that made them relatively more prosperous than most other places.

    (My reading is they stopped quite early and coasted on their laurels for a long time after but it didn't matter because no-one else caught them up for a long time.)

    Being at the head of the technology curve (or at least in the top ten) is the best guarantor of relative prosperity *not* aiming for a plantation economy competing solely on labour costs which is a total dead end and as far as i can see seems to be the political class' only plan.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    off-topic

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut-up_technique

    "From the early 1970s, David Bowie has used cut-ups to create some of his lyrics. This technique influenced Kurt Cobain's songwriting.[4] Thom Yorke applied a similar method in Radiohead's Kid A (2000) album, writing single lines, putting them into a hat, and drawing them out at random while the band rehearsed the songs."
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Hear Hear.

    I feel PB should devote many more threads to individuals of outstanding merit who through their various polling/projection organizations bring complete clarity to the sundry dross that too often infests the political hinterland.

    Cough .....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    MrJones said:

    off-topic

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut-up_technique

    "From the early 1970s, David Bowie has used cut-ups to create some of his lyrics. This technique influenced Kurt Cobain's songwriting.[4] Thom Yorke applied a similar method in Radiohead's Kid A (2000) album, writing single lines, putting them into a hat, and drawing them out at random while the band rehearsed the songs."

    all of whom of course followed William Burroughs. Who tangentially was using ideas of the abstract expressionists.

    On Topic:

    Peter Oborne doesn't half write some iditotic things. His polemicism is fatuous.

  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited June 2013
    tim said:

    @peterbuss

    Has Ashcroft launched "an open, menacing and extremely public campaign against David Cameron."
    Has he hell.

    You're on the wing of the Tories which knows damn well what the poison introduced into the party in the form of Osborne and Crosby does, you've posted about them both regularly.

    Every sensible commentator can see it

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 30 May
    Great piece by Telegraph's James Kirkup on Tory approach to immigration. ******* got this right http://goo.gl/bTP9w .

    In driving your party to the right, and trying to "out Farage Farage" on immigration and Europe you can never win, these people are irreconcilables who always come back for more.

    And of course the reason Crosby could get away with it in Australia was because there's no viable party to the right of the Liberals, whereas here you have UKIP to mop up the people who the right wing strategy is aimed at.


    You must find Ed Miliband's right wing rhetoric on immigration disturbing ;

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/03/political-dangers-milibands-new-approach-immigration

    Personally I've had my concerns about EdM ever since he promoted Woolas to his shadow cabinet.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1311491/Labour-MP-Phil-Woolas-accused-stirring-race-hate-win-white-vote.html
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Oborne is an hysteric, whichever way he is facing on a particular day. Nevertheless I agree with Peterbuss that he has a point here.

    Firstly, I do think that the personal attacks by Ashcroft on Cameron are unhelpful and disloyal. There may well be a debate to have on strategy but the way he is doing it brings solace to no one but Labour.

    Secondly, I recall vividly at the last election how Ashcroft himself became a real point of attack by Labour who went after his tax affairs etc in a big way. Cameron stood by him then and he has not returned the respect or the favour.

    Thirdly, it is clear that Ashcroft has been frozen out since the election and he has not responded well to that. Unfortunately his behaviour has been a self-fulfilling prophesy and I do tend to agree with Oborne's central point that you do wonder what he is doing in the Conservative party any more. My suspicion is that Cameron did learn things about his tax affairs/Belize investments that he was not comfortable with but who knows.

    Ashcroft and his money sustained the tories at a very difficult time but it is a mistake to confuse his utility in producing polling data which this site amongst others feed on and his utility to the tory party itself. Oborne, more often than not is just plain wrong. Here he has grossly overstated his case but he is not completely wrong.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Great thread by Mike. The other thing about Ashcroft was that, for all his (legal) tax avoiding ways, he is clearly a fundamentally decent man. Crosby is an odious misanthrope that makes the skin crawl - he and his nasty ilk have no place in political discourse in this country.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good morning, everyone.

    I agree with those who say there's a difference between praising Ashcroft's polling and his role for the Conservatives.

    In unrelated news, Gary Anderson's had a quick look at the top 6 teams so far this season. Nothing too staggering, but it's still interesting to read: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22881935
  • peterbusspeterbuss Posts: 109
    Crumbs Bobajob - as a Labour supporter then no doubt you felt exactly the same way about Alistair Campbell. Damien Macbride etc as you do about Crosby. That lot gave "odious" a bad name!
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I find the lefts *hatred* of Ashcroft really odd - it was the subject of hundreds of posts on PB re "Ashcroft's million's" in an attempt to personally demonise him. It's like a bizarre comfort blanket.

    And now its being transferred to Crosby as if he were some anti-Christ - its laughable stuff.

    I think Ashcroft is a man who feels very thwarted in his ambitions and has rather lost his way - so is using his substantial influence to attack those he feels *stole* his dreams from him aka Crosby chosen instead and Cameron who isn't suitably grateful in his view.

    Cameron stuck by Ashcroft for very many months - if not longer re his tax position, and I think its very ungentlemanly of him to seek to attack one of people who defended him out of spite.

    Whatever services Ashcroft is providing re polling, he's sullying his own reputation by acting like a sulky teenager. A great pity since he's done some great philanthropic stuff re Crimestoppers, the Imp War Museum, VCs et al.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Since SeanT accused me of being racist last night (although I assume he was drunk) I thought I'd better respond

    Yeah, the Chinks are only good at mass production, what with their slitty eyes and all. What dribbling, racist rubbish. China was an advanced civilisation when we were worshipping the moon.

    Sure, China used to be an incredibly innovative country - when there were multiple local princes each with a court full of scientists and inventors keen to impress their masters.

    Centralised control of such a vast empire has required centralised control of the population (most obviously post Mao, but even throughout the Manchurian era and before - what was the bureaucracy but a system of centralised control). Their examination system is designed to encourage hard work and rote learning.

    These are all good attributes for a country - and China has many natural advantages - but in the work I do there I don't see much in the way of real innovation. **However* this is not the same as saying the Chinese people *can't* innovate. Taiwain, which lacks the natural advantages, is an incredibly innovative society.

    So it's all about playing to strengths: China has lots of resources and, currently, relatively cheap labour plus a need to maintain social control. The last thing the government wants is successful mavericks. In the UK or the US it's often the maverick that makes a lot of money...
  • peterbusspeterbuss Posts: 109
    Tim - I am indeed on the wing of the Party which as a long term strategy would support the Ashcfroft approach - as indeed Oborne would. However DC ha dto deal with the EU isue and he did but in so doing proved for all to see and what he knew already that there are more than a few irreconcilables.That is his great problem - he wants to take the Party in a direction which far too many don't want to go in. It follows therefore that it hardly helps Ashcroft' case if the latter decides to really sneer at and foment strife against DC.He must know that any replacement would veer hard toward the Crosby line.
    Incidentally, Oborne is quite right about the attitiude of ConHome.Its an utter disgrace as far as loyla Conservatuves in the mainstream like me are concerned and most of us are fed up to the back teeth with these constant attacks on the PM.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349

    An unusual set of comments here. Tim and colleagues supposedly giving the Conservative party good advice. If I were a Tory, I'd be very suspicious. Three possibilities -

    (1) They are being altruistic and want to help the Tories.
    (2) They dislike Crosby for some reason.
    (3) They fear Crosby.

    We can eliminate (1) so perhaps it's a combination of (2) and (3)?

    I happily admit to being ignorant on this.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    CD13 said:


    An unusual set of comments here. Tim and colleagues supposedly giving the Conservative party good advice. If I were a Tory, I'd be very suspicious. Three possibilities -

    (1) They are being altruistic and want to help the Tories.
    (2) They dislike Crosby for some reason.
    (3) They fear Crosby.

    We can eliminate (1) so perhaps it's a combination of (2) and (3)?

    I happily admit to being ignorant on this.

    (4) Stirring
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Thousands of bright children are being let down by England's non-selective secondary schools, inspectors warn.

    A culture of low expectations meant able pupils were failing to achieve top GCSE grades, Ofsted said in a report.

    In 2012, 65% of pupils - 65,000 children - who had achieved Level 5 in maths and English tests at the end of primary school failed to attain A* or A grades in both these subjects at GCSE.

    Head teachers said school league tables pushed schools into the middle ground.

    The report - The Most Able Students: Are they doing as well as they should in our non-selective secondary schools? - found more than a quarter (27%) of previously high-attaining pupils had failed to achieve at least a B grade in both English and maths.

    Ofsted defines high-achievers as those pupils who achieve a Level 5 in both English and maths in their national curriculum tests, commonly known as Sats.

    The research - based on observations of 2,000 lessons, visits to 41 schools and school performance data - found in some non-selective schools, staff did not even know who their most able pupils were.

    In 40% of the schools visited by inspectors, the brightest students were not making the progress they were capable of and many had become "used" to performing at lower levels, with parents and teachers accepting this "too readily", Ofsted said.

    Tracking the progress of the most academically gifted was "not used sufficiently well in many schools", the report added.

    Ofsted was critical of mixed-ability classes, saying they often saw "a lack of differentiation, teaching to the middle, and the top pupils not being stretched".

    The report said teaching was "insufficiently focused" for able pupils in Key Stage 3 (aged 11-14) and schools should ensure class work was challenging at this stage so that able pupils could make rapid progress.

    Ofsted chief inspector Sir Michael Wilshaw said Year 7 (the first year of secondary school) was a particularly critical time for the most academically able - arriving "bright-eyed and bushy-tailed" from primary school - because a cycle of underperformance could quickly set in.

    He recommended school leaders consider streaming or setting pupils from the very start of their secondary education.

    Sir Michael said parents should be sent annual reports giving information on whether their child was achieving as well as they should be.

    Sir Michael said: "Too many non-selective schools are failing to nurture scholastic excellence.

    "While the best of these schools provide excellent opportunities, many of our most able students receive mediocre provision.

    "Put simply, they are not doing well enough because their secondary schools fail to challenge and support them sufficiently from the beginning.

    "I believe the term 'special needs' should be as relevant to the most able as it is to those who require support for their learning difficulties.

    "Yet some of the schools visited for this survey did not even know who their most able students were - this is completely unacceptable.

    "It is a serious concern that many non-selective schools fail to imbue their most able students with the confidence and high ambition that characterise many students in the selective or independent sector."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22873257

  • MBoyMBoy Posts: 104
    Ashcroft is a man who had avoided taxes as a religion to amass a fortune, and had then used that fortune aggressively to get what he wants, which is a senior place in the Tory party. Cameron defended his outrageous tax position in the Lords, and recently Ashcroft's payback for that has been continual sneering. He's just bitter. He should pay his taxes and shut up.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Charles said:

    Since SeanT accused me of being racist last night (although I assume he was drunk) I thought I'd better respond

    Yeah, the Chinks are only good at mass production, what with their slitty eyes and all. What dribbling, racist rubbish. China was an advanced civilisation when we were worshipping the moon.

    Sure, China used to be an incredibly innovative country - when there were multiple local princes each with a court full of scientists and inventors keen to impress their masters.

    Centralised control of such a vast empire has required centralised control of the population (most obviously post Mao, but even throughout the Manchurian era and before - what was the bureaucracy but a system of centralised control). Their examination system is designed to encourage hard work and rote learning.

    These are all good attributes for a country - and China has many natural advantages - but in the work I do there I don't see much in the way of real innovation. **However* this is not the same as saying the Chinese people *can't* innovate. Taiwain, which lacks the natural advantages, is an incredibly innovative society.

    So it's all about playing to strengths: China has lots of resources and, currently, relatively cheap labour plus a need to maintain social control. The last thing the government wants is successful mavericks. In the UK or the US it's often the maverick that makes a lot of money...

    China does not have a very good history of consumer product innovation recently. This would seem to be due to the nature of their economy, rather than any racial characteristic. Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore certainly show that.

    The critical thing will be how their economy adapts. They are living in interesting times, with their own property bubble and related issues at risk of popping, With a capital.ist economy, soonrr or later there will be an economic correction as part of the business cycle. How they handle it will affect all our countries. I suspect that they will find that economic freedom leads to political freedom.

    It looks to me that China is the next economy to go pop as the crisis travels further east.
  • I'm in the vast majority of the country who was totally ignorant of Lord Ashcroft's advice---good, bad, indifferent, petulant or whatever. Peter Oborne has quoted stuff that nobody but serious anoraks had noticed (I only count as an amateur anorak by that yardstick).

    It is Oborne who is maximising and highlighting the rifts in the tory party. Maybe he is a red 'sleeper'?

  • I agree with Mike's point to a large extent. The attack seems utterly hysterical. What does confuse me slightly though is why Lord Ashcroft would support a web site like Conservative Home that pursues a heavily ideological, un-pragmatic and un-realistic form of Conservatism (that would appear to go against his own research) and whose sole agenda seems to be to do damage to the Conservative Party.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    " Oborne is quite right about the attitiude of ConHome.Its an utter disgrace as far as loyla Conservatuves in the mainstream like me are concerned and most of us are fed up to the back teeth with these constant attacks on the PM. "

    Are you 'fed up to the back teeth' with the constant attacks by Cameron and his chums on Conservative voters ?

    Party leaders being attacked by some of their own supporters has always happened.

    What I've never seen before is the hatred, and the willingness to display it, which the Cameroons have for many of their own supporters and indeed those not born to privilege generally.

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    MBoy,

    Ashcroft .... "He should pay his taxes and shut up".

    I agree. As should all political donors, including Labour ones, without avoidance advice.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    CD13 said:

    MBoy,

    Ashcroft .... "He should pay his taxes and shut up".

    I agree. As should all political donors, including Labour ones, without avoidance advice.


    Tax advoidance is perfectly legal. Ed Milliband did it himself when rewriting his fathers will on his Primrose Hill mansion. Nothing wrong with that. Unless you make an issue of it for others.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    tim said:

    @DavidL.

    It was Osborne and Cameron's decision to avoid dealing with Ashcrofts tax status until the election campaign.
    Every man and his dog knew it was going to come up and it should have been dealt with long before.
    You're simply making excuses for the amateurism of the 2010 campaign.
    And of course we know why Tories have to do that,because the same incompetent chum of Dave's is running the 2015 campaign.

    That was truly staggering incompetance.

    Perhaps we should have a poll as to which Osborne debacle was the most staggeringly incompetant. Here's a few possibilities:

    Being taken by surprise by the recession
    Not dealing with Ashcroft's tax issues
    The strutting austerity machismo of 2010
    The electoral reform shambles
    Poncing around the USA the week before the 2012 budget
    Government backed subprime lending
    Abuse of UKIP voters
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263

    I'm in the vast majority of the country who was totally ignorant of Lord Ashcroft's advice---good, bad, indifferent, petulant or whatever. Peter Oborne has quoted stuff that nobody but serious anoraks had noticed (I only count as an amateur anorak by that yardstick).

    It is Oborne who is maximising and highlighting the rifts in the tory party. Maybe he is a red 'sleeper'?

    The sleeper team - Cameron, Osborne, and perhaps Oborne - are doing a jolly good job on the Tory Party. I won't have a word said against them.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tim said:

    CD13 said:

    MBoy,

    Ashcroft .... "He should pay his taxes and shut up".

    I agree. As should all political donors, including Labour ones, without avoidance advice.


    Tax advoidance is perfectly legal. Ed Milliband did it himself when rewriting his fathers will on his Primrose Hill mansion. Nothing wrong with that. Unless you make an issue of it for others.

    Yeah, you don't want to be making an issues of it with say, a comedian when

    Cameron family fortune made in tax havens
    Revealed: David Cameron's father built up legal offshore funds in Panama and Geneva


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/20/cameron-family-tax-havens

    the proceeds put you through Eton and turned you into the elitist first chum of a misogynist clique.
    Like I said, there is a lot of it about, particularly with our wealthy political class.

    And that is really the problem with the Oborne/Ashdown/Crosby spat. Courtiers fighting amongst themselves, rather than real participatory democracy.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,211
    tim said:

    CD13 said:

    MBoy,

    Ashcroft .... "He should pay his taxes and shut up".

    I agree. As should all political donors, including Labour ones, without avoidance advice.


    Tax advoidance is perfectly legal. Ed Milliband did it himself when rewriting his fathers will on his Primrose Hill mansion. Nothing wrong with that. Unless you make an issue of it for others.

    Yeah, you don't want to be making an issues of it with say, a comedian when

    Cameron family fortune made in tax havens
    Revealed: David Cameron's father built up legal offshore funds in Panama and Geneva


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/20/cameron-family-tax-havens

    the proceeds put you through Eton and turned you into the elitist first chum of a misogynist clique.
    Chuckles benignly. Notice how quiet you've been about Dave drawing almost level with Ed on MORI's Leader rating yesterday (you know, the GOLD standard). It's becoming quite comical observing you becoming ever more hysterical: I put it down to your suppressed indignation at NIMBYLabour giving residents the veto over planning applications, including new housing. That must hurt. And by a Benn.

    But, please, do carry on. Things can only get better - to coin a phrase - but not for you.
  • tim said:

    Please take Dave here for one of his food shopping photo stunts

    Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam
    Beyond parody: Enniskillen's shuttered shops painted over to avoid reminding G8 leaders about econ crisis http://www.theworld.org/2013/05/northern-ireland-town-fakes-prosperity-for-g8-

    It really is remarkable that you only ever seem to be able to find articles that give an entirely negative view of the economy. Given the increasing volume of good economic news surely you must have noticed some of it?!
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Charles said:

    Since SeanT accused me of being racist last night (although I assume he was drunk) I thought I'd better respond

    Yeah, the Chinks are only good at mass production, what with their slitty eyes and all. What dribbling, racist rubbish. China was an advanced civilisation when we were worshipping the moon.

    Sure, China used to be an incredibly innovative country - when there were multiple local princes each with a court full of scientists and inventors keen to impress their masters.

    Centralised control of such a vast empire has required centralised control of the population (most obviously post Mao, but even throughout the Manchurian era and before - what was the bureaucracy but a system of centralised control). Their examination system is designed to encourage hard work and rote learning.

    These are all good attributes for a country - and China has many natural advantages - but in the work I do there I don't see much in the way of real innovation. **However* this is not the same as saying the Chinese people *can't* innovate. Taiwain, which lacks the natural advantages, is an incredibly innovative society.

    So it's all about playing to strengths: China has lots of resources and, currently, relatively cheap labour plus a need to maintain social control. The last thing the government wants is successful mavericks. In the UK or the US it's often the maverick that makes a lot of money...

    China does not have a very good history of consumer product innovation recently. This would seem to be due to the nature of their economy, rather than any racial characteristic. Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore certainly show that.

    The critical thing will be how their economy adapts. They are living in interesting times, with their own property bubble and related issues at risk of popping, With a capital.ist economy, soonrr or later there will be an economic correction as part of the business cycle. How they handle it will affect all our countries. I suspect that they will find that economic freedom leads to political freedom.

    It looks to me that China is the next economy to go pop as the crisis travels further east.
    There is one pretty big difference with China, and that is demography. I think it was Paul Mason who pointed out that a lot of the recent protest movements in the Arab world - and a parallel can be drawn with 1968 and all that - has come from young people with a good education for whom there are not enough opportunities in the economy.

    The demographic trends in China as a result of the one child policy mean that there will be fewer such people in China, possibly even a deficit rather than a surplus. While China will no doubt encounter economic difficulties at various times, this demography may ensure that the political impact is a lot less than might be expected or hoped.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013
    I find the lefty Oborne's *hatred* of Ashcroft really odd - it was the subject of hundreds of cat posts on PB. It's like a bizarre comfort blanket for "serial labour voters".

    And now its being transferred to the lefty Crosby as if he were some tory strategist behind banging on about Europe and immigration - its laughable stuff.

    I think the lefty Ashcroft is a man who feels very thwarted in his ambitions and has rather lost his way - so is using his substantial influence to attack those he feels *stole* his dreams from him aka the lefty Crosby chosen instead and Cameron who isn't suitably grateful according to the chumcoracy's inept spinners.

    Cameron stuck by Ashcroft for very many months when everyone expected Cammie to immediately attack his own party treasurer, and I think its very ungentlemanly of the lefty Ashcroft not to grovel at Cammie's feet like a "floating voter" spinning ineptly.

    Whatever services Ashcroft is providing re polling, he's sullying his own reputation by acting like a sulky teenager and not agreeing with "serial labour voters" that Cammie is wonderful.

    Golly. ;^ )

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Charles said:

    Since SeanT accused me of being racist last night (although I assume he was drunk) I thought I'd better respond

    Yeah, the Chinks are only good at mass production, what with their slitty eyes and all. What dribbling, racist rubbish. China was an advanced civilisation when we were worshipping the moon.

    Sure, China used to be an incredibly innovative country - when there were multiple local princes each with a court full of scientists and inventors keen to impress their masters.

    Centralised control of such a vast empire has required centralised control of the population (most obviously post Mao, but even throughout the Manchurian era and before - what was the bureaucracy but a system of centralised control). Their examination system is designed to encourage hard work and rote learning.

    These are all good attributes for a country - and China has many natural advantages - but in the work I do there I don't see much in the way of real innovation. **However* this is not the same as saying the Chinese people *can't* innovate. Taiwain, which lacks the natural advantages, is an incredibly innovative society.

    So it's all about playing to strengths: China has lots of resources and, currently, relatively cheap labour plus a need to maintain social control. The last thing the government wants is successful mavericks. In the UK or the US it's often the maverick that makes a lot of money...

    China does not have a very good history of consumer product innovation recently. This would seem to be due to the nature of their economy, rather than any racial characteristic. Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore certainly show that.

    The critical thing will be how their economy adapts. They are living in interesting times, with their own property bubble and related issues at risk of popping, With a capital.ist economy, soonrr or later there will be an economic correction as part of the business cycle. How they handle it will affect all our countries. I suspect that they will find that economic freedom leads to political freedom.

    It looks to me that China is the next economy to go pop as the crisis travels further east.
    There is one pretty big difference with China, and that is demography. I think it was Paul Mason who pointed out that a lot of the recent protest movements in the Arab world - and a parallel can be drawn with 1968 and all that - has come from young people with a good education for whom there are not enough opportunities in the economy.

    The demographic trends in China as a result of the one child policy mean that there will be fewer such people in China, possibly even a deficit rather than a surplus. While China will no doubt encounter economic difficulties at various times, this demography may ensure that the political impact is a lot less than might be expected or hoped.
    I had in mind the economic crisis shifting from US to UK to EU onwards to China. It has much the same characteristics in terms of property bubble. The arab spring crisis would not move to China.

    I see the markets are heavily down again today, following gloomy news from China, and it looks like "stimulus" economics in Japan is not going very well either. It is difficult to cure debt with debt.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,211
    tim said:

    @JohnO

    I mentioned Cameron had almost drawn level with Miliband at the time.

    Of course the PB Tories were silent on Toxic George falling behind Balls, and by a huge 31% among 2010 Lib Dems, the key swing group.

    Ho, ho, ho, a terse eight word comment and then all afternoon frothing in displacement activity about Ed and George. You fool no one.

    But on topic. Oborne is a barking loon. Ashcroft has his own agenda that is sometimes not helpful to the cause, but his polls are invaluable. And it is impossible to demur - if a loyal Tory you be - with his fulminations that the self-indulgent obsessions among a dispiriting number with in our ranks at the Palace of Varieties may contrive to snatch defeat from what could be the jaws of electoral vindication in 2015 as the economic revival accelerates.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263

    CD13 said:

    MBoy,

    Ashcroft .... "He should pay his taxes and shut up".

    I agree. As should all political donors, including Labour ones, without avoidance advice.


    Tax advoidance is perfectly legal. Ed Milliband did it himself when rewriting his fathers will on his Primrose Hill mansion. Nothing wrong with that. Unless you make an issue of it for others.
    As a matter of interest, do you have any evidence for the assertion that Ed rewrote his father's will, or even personally instigated it?

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    CD13 said:

    MBoy,

    Ashcroft .... "He should pay his taxes and shut up".

    I agree. As should all political donors, including Labour ones, without avoidance advice.


    Tax advoidance is perfectly legal. Ed Milliband did it himself when rewriting his fathers will on his Primrose Hill mansion. Nothing wrong with that. Unless you make an issue of it for others.
    As a matter of interest, do you have any evidence for the assertion that Ed rewrote his father's will, or even personally instigated it?

    It was David and Ed Milliband that went to court to get it rewritten. All legal, of course.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    How did Ashcroft do in previous GE's ?

    Rubbish.

    Time for someone else to have a go.


  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Ashcroft is rarely critical of Cameron - much more often of his disobliging back benchers. When he is occasionally, and gently, critical he is constructive and backs his points with data - something his detractors rarely if ever do.

    As ever, the best summary of Ashcroft's role comes from Ashcroft himself:

    "My research has won a reputation for being objective and professionally conducted. My analysis is balanced, based on the evidence. Overall, my political commentary amounts to a prolonged reminder that the winning party will be the one that pays attention to the voters and their priorities. I hope that party will be the Conservative Party – but I think I’m more use to it as a truth-teller than a cheerleader.
  • "British Gas owner is preparing to buy a minority stake, thought to be close to 30pc, in the Bowland shale licence area, which stretches across 450 square miles of Lancashire between Blackpool and Preston."

    Frack baby frack

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10117165/Centrica-to-unveil-shale-gas-drilling-plans-with-Cuadrilla.html
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    How did Ashcroft do in previous GE's ?

    Rubbish.

    Time for someone else to have a go.



    How did Osborne do?
    Poor to middling - hence why Crosby was brought in.


  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    This is interesting:
    DataPoint is a way of accessing freely available Met Office data feeds in a format that is suitable for application developers. It is aimed at professionals, the scientific community and student or amateur developers, in fact anyone looking to re-use Met Office data within their own innovative applications.
    I seem to recall that open data has been one of the pet projects of Francis Maude - who from what I have heard is a busy man - so this sort of thing is a feather in his cap.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ashcroft reply here .

    A poster called "BandofMobius" is on the money in the replies (no idea who they are)

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2013/06/lord-ashcroft-another-response-to-peter-oborne.html



  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    How did Ashcroft do in previous GE's ?

    Rubbish.

    Time for someone else to have a go.



    How did Osborne do?
    Poor to middling - hence why Crosby was brought in.



    The chum meritocracy.
    Poor to middling and you accrue more and more power if you're Dave's chum.
    See Jeremy Hunt's career for further reading


    Lynton Crosby went to Eton ? That's news to me...



  • Emily Gosden ‏@emilygosden 9m
    Centrica confirms buying into Cuadrilla's Bowland shale: 25pc stake for £40m + £60m on drilling/fracking + potentially upto £60m development

    For a big boy like Centrica to buy-in to shale, they must have had the nod from Government.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Ashcroft's agenda is Ashcroft. Oborne's agenda is Oborne.

    This really isn't complicated just because Cammie is in the middle of it.

    If it wasn't those two it would just be somebody else because right now the space for these type of discussions/self publicising spats have been created by the kipper rise and tory uncertainty about how to deal with them and disagreement about the direction of the leadership and the coming election campaign strategy.

    The tory grassroots and tory backbenchers no not require either Oborne or Ashcroft to create that uncertainty and disagreement with strategy and the leadership since it is already there.
    Both are merely capitalising on it to further their own viewpoint and agendas.

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Emily Gosden ‏@emilygosden 9m
    Centrica confirms buying into Cuadrilla's Bowland shale: 25pc stake for £40m + £60m on drilling/fracking + potentially upto £60m development

    For a big boy like Centrica to buy-in to shale, they must have had the nod from Government.

    At least a nod. Government may have asked, or begged, them to become involved.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Emily Gosden ‏@emilygosden 9m
    Centrica confirms buying into Cuadrilla's Bowland shale: 25pc stake for £40m + £60m on drilling/fracking + potentially upto £60m development

    For a big boy like Centrica to buy-in to shale, they must have had the nod from Government.

    Seems like small change for a big stake.

    Sunday Times had interesting article on the "next big thing" after fracking - methane hydrate - plentiful supply at bottom of sea. Greenies will hate it obviously...

    More here

    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/06/09/national/sea-of-japan-methane-hydrate-survey-kicks-off/

    "Methane hydrate, a substance with a sherbetlike consistency comprised of methane gas and water, is believed to exist in a wide area of the seabed surrounding the Japanese archipelago. According to one estimate, those deposits are sufficient to cover the nation’s consumption of natural gas for around 100 years, prompting speculation that they could be potentially invaluable for resource-poor Japan."
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    I have much more admiration and support for a party that has willing dissenting voices within it and gives the space for those dissenting voices to be heard. Lord Ashcroft is a proud Tory and an intelligent man, Peter Oborne - although sometimes a bit emotional - is also an intelligent thinker from the right. I like to see arguments and disagreement; I hate the fake, show of on-message discipline.

    Compare the current debates to Labour in 2007 during Gordon Brown's rise to power. 350 nodding-dog MPs and the likes of Polly Toynbee telling us that Brown was our saviour.

    What a sack of shit that was.
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    Oborne is not worth reading at all.

    Ashcroft is good for polling and good for the Tories. He mostly attacks the barmy backbenchers.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Fenster said:

    I have much more admiration and support for a party that has willing dissenting voices within it and gives the space for those dissenting voices to be heard. Lord Ashcroft is a proud Tory and an intelligent man, Peter Oborne - although sometimes a bit emotional - is also an intelligent thinker from the right. I like to see arguments and disagreement; I hate the fake, show of on-message discipline.

    Compare the current debates to Labour in 2007 during Gordon Brown's rise to power. 350 nodding-dog MPs and the likes of Polly Toynbee telling us that Brown was our saviour.

    What a sack of shit that was.

    Indeed - Dan Hodges spent the last 3 months telling Labour that they had lost the war on welfare and was shot down by the so called lefty "experts" on here - well guess what happened last week..
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    BTW, not sure the current YG has been posted, probably because it's nothing special either way:

    CON 30%, LAB 38%, LD 11%, UKIP 12%; APP -33
    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/06/13/update-labour-lead-8/
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    tim said:

    Clegg getting slaughtered on the radio

    norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS
    Clegg on #rennard sex claims review - repeatedly refuses to answer if he will go on "diversity course" as recommended @lbc973

    Maybe there's a Buy One Get One Free discount

    Cameron 'should have anti-sexist training'

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4825150/PM-David-Cameron-recommended-to-have-anti-sexist-training.html


    for the products of twit school

    For every half dozen or so appearances Clegg has on 'Clegg FM' that pass by unremarked and ignored by almost everyone, there then inevitably pops up one that sees him floundering comically and getting far more attention than all those previous dull outings.

    It's one thing to be accountable and willing to give press conferences etc. It's quite another to keep banging away pointlessly on this absurd and futile radio detox strategy when it was hardly very difficult to predict that this would keep happening.

  • Nice map of shale formations on the Centrica press release:

    http://www.centrica.com/index.asp?pageid=1162#ref_naturalgas

    Lots on the Scots Borders.
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276

    Nice map of shale formations on the Centrica press release:

    http://www.centrica.com/index.asp?pageid=1162#ref_naturalgas

    Lots on the Scots Borders.

    Scots Borders? Not really, the map seems to suggest a line from south Ayrshire to Edinburgh. All about 100 miles north of the border.



  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Fenster said:

    Compare the current debates to Labour in 2007 during Gordon Brown's rise to power. 350 nodding-dog MPs and the likes of Polly Toynbee telling us that Brown was our saviour.

    What a sack of shit that was.

    Indeed it is.

    If you think Brown's 'rise to power' was typified by anything other than an internecine internal war between the Blairites and the Brownites that lasted many, many years, (and is still going on in some places) or that the splits, spats and often abject chaos wasn't eagerly exploited by the tories, then you are living on a different planet.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Mick_Pork said:

    Fenster said:

    Compare the current debates to Labour in 2007 during Gordon Brown's rise to power. 350 nodding-dog MPs and the likes of Polly Toynbee telling us that Brown was our saviour.

    What a sack of shit that was.

    Indeed it is.

    If you think Brown's 'rise to power' was typified by anything other than an internecine internal war between the Blairites and the Brownites that lasted many, many years, (and is still going on in some places) or that the splits, spats and often abject chaos wasn't eagerly exploited by the tories, then you are living on a different planet.

    Perhaps a list of top Labour supporters who warned Brown would be the disaster that he turned out to be would be in order ?

    IIRC NPXMP was extolling the virtues of Mr Brown - who then went on to be the worst PM in history.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    TGOHF said:

    Perhaps a list of top Labour supporters who warned Brown would be the disaster that he turned out to be would be in order ?.

    A list of those who straddled both camps and flitted back and forth with amusing 'flexibility' could prove even more illuminating.

    Though we haven't seen that much of wee Dougie of late have we? Or indeed his best bud Murphy. ;)

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited June 2013
    TGOHF said:


    Perhaps a list of top Labour supporters who warned Brown would be the disaster that he turned out to be would be in order ?

    IIRC NPXMP was extolling the virtues of Mr Brown - who then went on to be the worst PM in history.

    As he was a sitting MP at the time, and as he was no doubt well aware of Mr Brown's penchant for administering punishment beatings to those who opposed him, then it seems that he took the most sensible course of action, irrespective of whatever he really believed.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    The Mail has a good chuckle at Balls

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2340689/Private-sector-job-creation-Its-fantasy-Mr-Balls-1-2m-new-roles-coalition.html

    "It makes a mockery of the claim by Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls in October 2011 that it was ‘a complete fantasy’ the private sector could mop up the jobs culled in the public sector."
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:


    Perhaps a list of top Labour supporters who warned Brown would be the disaster that he turned out to be would be in order ?

    IIRC NPXMP was extolling the virtues of Mr Brown - who then went on to be the worst PM in history.

    As he was a sitting MP at the time, and as he was no doubt well aware of Mr Brown's penchant for administering punishment beatings to those who opposed him, then it seems that he took the most sensible course of action, irrespective of whatever he really believed.
    So not a fool just a cowardly hypocrite ?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    Mick_Pork said:

    TGOHF said:

    Perhaps a list of top Labour supporters who warned Brown would be the disaster that he turned out to be would be in order ?.

    A list of those who straddled both camps and flitted back and forth with amusing 'flexibility' could prove even more illuminating.

    Though we haven't seen that much of wee Dougie of late have we? Or indeed his best bud Murphy. ;)

    I see Tom Harris has quit the Labour front bench 'to spend more time with his family' (never frightened of a cliché is oor Tom). Perhaps the strain of not being able to express the love that dare not speak its name (ie Tony) finally got to him.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Fenster said:

    I have much more admiration and support for a party that has willing dissenting voices within it and gives the space for those dissenting voices to be heard. Lord Ashcroft is a proud Tory and an intelligent man, Peter Oborne - although sometimes a bit emotional - is also an intelligent thinker from the right. I like to see arguments and disagreement; I hate the fake, show of on-message discipline.

    Compare the current debates to Labour in 2007 during Gordon Brown's rise to power. 350 nodding-dog MPs and the likes of Polly Toynbee telling us that Brown was our saviour.

    What a sack of shit that was.

    The Conservative party isn't so much giving space for Ashcroft to be heard as having no way to stop him.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    tim said:


    The Japanese demographic suicide option, low birth rates and a ban on migration has the potential to wreck many east Asian economies.
    South Korea looks like it's chosen the Japanese route

    is it really suicide? providing we (in japan) can get through the next 30-50 years with some kind of economy still functioning, the demographic problem goes away again.

    keeping a high birth rate (whether by immigration or other means (!?) ) brings its own problems in the long run
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    edited June 2013


    Perhaps a list of top Labour supporters who warned Brown would be the disaster that he turned out to be

    Anthony Charles Lyton Blair ?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013
    Anorak said:

    and as he was no doubt well aware of Mr Brown's penchant for administering punishment beatings to those who opposed him

    Contrast that with the honest and gentle Blairites who would never dream of crude strong arm tactics or briefing behind anyone's back duplicitously. As Alastair Campbell and Mandelson would no doubt tell you. ;)

    Some spats never really go away. Like Thatcher and Heath or Major and the bastards they rumble on with a life of their own even after the initial protagonists have left the centre stage.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Fascinating appreciation of Michael Gove from Toby Young ;

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8933371/the-best-leader-labour-never-had/
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    tim said:


    The Japanese demographic suicide option, low birth rates and a ban on migration has the potential to wreck many east Asian economies.
    South Korea looks like it's chosen the Japanese route

    is it really suicide? providing we (in japan) can get through the next 30-50 years with some kind of economy still functioning, the demographic problem goes away again.

    keeping a high birth rate (whether by immigration or other means (!?) ) brings its own problems in the long run
    You need to realise that tim's objections to Japanese policy aren't rationally based. It's just that Japan is becoming an aged population, and tim hates the elderly.

    Virtually every post he makes is a thinly veiled attack on either old people or upper class people.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    That's a lot

    RT @paulwaugh: Another ONS fatherhood stat: 24% of babies in 2011 had fathers who were born outside UK. 1/9 fathers from Pakistan. Poles 2nd, Indians 3rd
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013

    Mick_Pork said:

    TGOHF said:

    Perhaps a list of top Labour supporters who warned Brown would be the disaster that he turned out to be would be in order ?.

    A list of those who straddled both camps and flitted back and forth with amusing 'flexibility' could prove even more illuminating.

    Though we haven't seen that much of wee Dougie of late have we? Or indeed his best bud Murphy. ;)

    I see Tom Harris has quit the Labour front bench 'to spend more time with his family' (never frightened of a cliché is oor Tom). Perhaps the strain of not being able to express the love that dare not speak its name (ie Tony) finally got to him.
    A nation mourns.

    Perhaps the Edinburgh Glasgow axis of SLAB and Labour is wobbling ever more precariously? I'm afraid further speculation would be fruitless as Lamont has this all under control, so little Ed tells her. ;)

    Where now for the other ultra-Blairites?
    Time for Dan Hodges to jump into the fray again. For the sake of comedy if nothing else.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @tim The last three times Muslims have come up on here it's been you bringing them up.

    Why don't you go back to spamming about "fops" and "coffin dodgers"?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    tim said:

    Socrates said:


    tim said:


    The Japanese demographic suicide option, low birth rates and a ban on migration has the potential to wreck many east Asian economies.
    South Korea looks like it's chosen the Japanese route

    is it really suicide? providing we (in japan) can get through the next 30-50 years with some kind of economy still functioning, the demographic problem goes away again.

    keeping a high birth rate (whether by immigration or other means (!?) ) brings its own problems in the long run
    You need to realise that tim's objections to Japanese policy aren't rationally based. It's just that Japan is becoming an aged population, and tim hates the elderly.

    Virtually every post he makes is a thinly veiled attack on either old people or upper class people.
    Yes because Japans demographic crisis,huge debt and massive decline in population is just my opinion.



    Their demographic people being... lots of old people. Your prejudice is obvious.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Plato said:

    That's a lot

    RT @paulwaugh: Another ONS fatherhood stat: 24% of babies in 2011 had fathers who were born outside UK. 1/9 fathers from Pakistan. Poles 2nd, Indians 3rd

    I wonder what it is for mothers.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited June 2013
    @PBModerator

    I'm guessing tim won't be banned for his nasty personal attack, as usual? Telling someone it's not safe for them to have children because they "drool" over child abuse, is quite possibly the most disgusting thing any poster has said on here. But then, it'll just be a tap on the wrist I guess.
  • The tory party under Cameron is too narrowly based, according to all its enemies, and even by some of its friends.

    Ashcroft adds to the width of informed advice available to the PM, and I would have thought it obvious that it should be valued for what it is.

    Knocking copy works. But it very tough get right, and there is little margin for error.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I loved this piece re Boris and his girly swot remark :^ )

    " There is another downside to anti-swottist prejudice. Those poor unfortunates who have experienced life as a series of exams, each passed with flying colours, become seriously discombobulated when thrust into messy reality, and eclipsed by the slackers and slickers they disdained.

    So they take refuge in a place where writing essays and learning facts are still rewarded – the Civil Service, which one Whitehaller memorably described to me as being staffed largely by the kind of people who always handed in their homework on time. Deny the swots a place in the real world, and they colonise the corridors of power instead – where they are in a perfect position, the state of the nation suggests, to wreak a terrible revenge." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationopinion/10116034/Deny-us-swots-a-place-in-the-world-and-well-wreak-revenge.html
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    tim said:

    @Socrates

    Have you gone to get some help regarding your Muslim fixation yet.
    Best not have children until you've got some therapy for your years of drooling over one type of child abuse

    Catholic priests.
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    Socrates said:

    @PBModerator

    I'm guessing tim won't be banned for his nasty personal attack, as usual? Telling someone it's not safe for them to have children because they "drool" over child abus

    Was it really that bad? TUP as my wife says to me.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    tim said:


    The Japanese demographic suicide option, low birth rates and a ban on migration has the potential to wreck many east Asian economies.
    South Korea looks like it's chosen the Japanese route

    is it really suicide? providing we (in japan) can get through the next 30-50 years with some kind of economy still functioning, the demographic problem goes away again.

    keeping a high birth rate (whether by immigration or other means (!?) ) brings its own problems in the long run
    No it's not suicide. By definition it's a temporary problem.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited June 2013

    Socrates said:

    @PBModerator

    I'm guessing tim won't be banned for his nasty personal attack, as usual? Telling someone it's not safe for them to have children because they "drool" over child abuse

    Was it really that bad? TUP as my wife says to me.
    I'd say accusing another poster of being a paedophile and they're not safe to have children is about as bad as it gets.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    tim said:

    @Socrates.

    Your bigotry is made worse by your self pity at being called out on it,as posters from Richard Tyndall on the right to nick Palmer on the left have done.
    Now if you can't take it don't pathetically attempt to dish it out, or the thread will get moderated.

    I'll give you some space to sort yourself out as you've been asked to do from across the spectrum recently.

    "therapy for your years of drooling over one type of child abuse"

    Catholic priests.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633



    Perhaps a list of top Labour supporters who warned Brown would be the disaster that he turned out to be

    Anthony Charles Lyton Blair ?

    And Mrs Blair.

    For all their faults they were one of the few Labourites to call Brown out for being abject.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    I was a swot at school. Cunningly, I was also more splendid than the other main swot, and therefore never got bullied.

    Of course, being a teenage morris dancer also helped to get me a lot of street cred.
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 660
    edited June 2013

    Tim, knock it off. The tone especially.

    Socrates, as per OGH please don't discuss moderation on the site. Especially when you don't know what's been done.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @tim

    You have been banned from this site for several times for attacking others, but accusing another poster of being a paedophile whos unsafe to have children for expressing concern over child abuse cases is the worst thing you've ever posted on here. You are a despicable excuse for a human being, and it'll say a lot about the moderators on here how they choose to respond to this.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited June 2013
    @PBModerator

    I know that I've just been accused of drooling over child abuse. I'm happy to take the conversation to private messages, but I shouldn't have to be exposed to someone who publicly harasses me with such outrageous allegations.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @tim

    This will my last reply to one of your posts. It sickens me that people like you exist in the world.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    This is rather cool - graphics did give leave me feeling a little nauseous though - realtime search requests on Google

    http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends/visualize?nrow=15&ncol=15
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    Off topic, Farage back in Edinburgh for QT tonight apparently, along with Galloway. What was it George was saying about two cheeks of the same arse?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    No wonder this site is DoA these days.



  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Off topic, Farage back in Edinburgh for QT tonight apparently, along with Galloway. What was it George was saying about two cheeks of the same arse?

    QT do get good guests - now if only they got a decent host and audience they might have the makings of a watchable show.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    TGOHF said:

    No wonder this site is DoA these days.



    Can anyone recommend some other politics sites, where you don't get this sort of foul abuse?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    MrJones said:

    tim said:

    @Socrates

    Have you gone to get some help regarding your Muslim fixation yet.
    Best not have children until you've got some therapy for your years of drooling over one type of child abuse

    Catholic priests.
    Blimey!
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Off topic, Farage back in Edinburgh for QT tonight apparently, along with Galloway. What was it George was saying about two cheeks of the same arse?

    Better together indeed. ;)

  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Off topic, Farage back in Edinburgh for QT tonight apparently, along with Galloway. What was it George was saying about two cheeks of the same arse?

    Farage and Galloway are always worth listening to. Will the SNP be adding to the star cast ?

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    edited June 2013
    Sean_F said:

    MrJones said:

    tim said:

    @Socrates

    Have you gone to get some help regarding your Muslim fixation yet.
    Best not have children until you've got some therapy for your years of drooling over one type of child abuse

    Catholic priests.
    Blimey!
    I was pointing out all the comments he made about the priest scandal.

    edit: in case it wasn't clear.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @Socrates

    May I recommend the Ignore function of EiT widget? It now works on both the main website and the backroom discussion forum. I use the backroom function as its much faster to load, has no adverts and shows posts in oldest first order.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749

    Off topic, Farage back in Edinburgh for QT tonight apparently, along with Galloway. What was it George was saying about two cheeks of the same
    arse?

    Farage and Galloway are always worth listening to. Will the SNP be adding to the star cast ?
    Angus Robertson, and Lesley Riddoch as, I suppose, an approximate supporter of independence, Ruth Davidson and Anas Sarwar to make up the Unionist numbers (they get a bit feart if it's ever less than 2 to 1).

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    MrJones said:

    Sean_F said:

    MrJones said:

    tim said:

    @Socrates

    Have you gone to get some help regarding your Muslim fixation yet.
    Best not have children until you've got some therapy for your years of drooling over one type of child abuse

    Catholic priests.
    Blimey!
    I was pointing out all the comments he made about the priest scandal.

    edit: in case it wasn't clear.
    Sorry. I was responding to the original comment from tim.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Socrates said:

    TGOHF said:

    No wonder this site is DoA these days.



    Can anyone recommend some other politics sites, where you don't get this sort of foul abuse?
    The Vote 2012 forum is pretty courteous.
This discussion has been closed.