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  • Gerry_ManderGerry_Mander Posts: 621
    £70 for seeing the GP? A bargain if you have a two hour commute to work and have to take half the day off for a 10 minute appointment.
    From my knowledge most people who visit the GP aren't too sick to go to work, e.g. the GP wants to see you every two months to see if you should still be on losec, high blood pressure, etc.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    The Spectator archive is online from the years 1828 to 2008. They seem free to access.

    http://archive.spectator.co.uk/issues

    Completely O/T

    In his book on London Boris claimed that Turner grew up idly leafing through copies of the Spectator.

    Given that Turner was born in 1775, I guess he was a late developer
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited June 2013
    @tim

    The surgery I'm with gets the best review ratings in my area. I tried to register with another nearby that had pretty good ratings, but I'm just outside the catchment area apparently. Unfortunately, I live in an area with a surging population, so health services are frankly overwhelmed.

    What would be good is if they allowed you to register with any GP surgery in your city. That would allow proper competition.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    Mr. Taffys, if it's urgent wouldn't you call 999?

    Lower down the thread: it's a good point about the stupid list system and PR, actually. One thing I really like about FPTP is that if Balls were replaced as Labour candidate by a really good Labour candidate (none spring to mind, but the late Gwyneth Dunwoody would be a good example) I could vote for that specific candidate. Under a list system you give the party your vote and the political class decides how to use it.

    What on earth are you talking about? Only a constituent of Morley & Outwood would be able to vote for or against a Balls replacement under your beloved FPTP system. No one else's vote counts.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Mr. Taffys, if it's urgent wouldn't you call 999?

    Lower down the thread: it's a good point about the stupid list system and PR, actually. One thing I really like about FPTP is that if Balls were replaced as Labour candidate by a really good Labour candidate (none spring to mind, but the late Gwyneth Dunwoody would be a good example) I could vote for that specific candidate. Under a list system you give the party your vote and the political class decides how to use it.

    Eh? Your example actually shows one of the weaknesses of FPTP (without primaries). You are lumbered with the candidate that the party chooses for you.

    On the other hand, with STV, you can rank the candidates from each party. In this way Tory voters in the shires would be able to get rid of people like, say, Neil Hamilton, and still be able to vote Tory and elect Tory MPs.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,543
    Welcome back, Mike.

    Yes, I think the views on the economy are largely priced in. Floating voters reckon that various bods in the past screwed up, including but not exclusively Gordon, that the current lot are continuing to drift while voters get poorer, and that nobody really has a clear idea what to do. Therefore, they're expressing voting intentions on the basis of other issues, some of them quite nebulous (who seems more in touch etc.). If the economy suddenly did wonderfully (5% growth, real pay rises all round) it'd be different, but as it is, INTES (It's Not The Economy, Stupid).

    The LD 2010 voters who have moved to Labour are in any case quite a distinctive cohort - generally very anti-Tory and left of centre and just not up for the LibDems if it might mean another Tory coalition. Cameron's best chance is possibly a flaming row with Clegg which leads to the LibDems storming out of the coalition swearing not to return - that would bring many LD 2010 voters back and perversely give the Tories a potential majority.

    That's why Labour isn't particularly demanding that the LibDems leave government. It's not in our interests. Isn't FPTP politics curious?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2013
    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    tim said:

    taffys said:

    If only they would look at the rest of Europe where a much higher private provision contributes to a far far better standard of health provision than the NHS.

    Its interesting that a bunch of polish doctors can set up a private GP practice in London charging 70 quid per appointment and get away with it.

    Mind you, you do get half an hour per appointment. And you can go on Sunday.


    Thats was a triumph of advertising by that clinic (which does a lot of acupuncture, botox, 4D scanning, dentistry etc) as it competes with and undercuts BUPA in most areas.

    The longer opening hours on the GP side were quickly brushed over.

    Out-of-hours patients are almost certain to be seen by a locum or a senior nurse.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2337682/Patients-shun-NHS-clinics-run-Polish-GPs-Cut-price-private-surgeries-doctor-seven-days-week.html#ixzz2Vp8zJDUj
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


    And who the hell wants a half hour GP appointment?



    Also, regarding the longer opening hours, if you are sufficiently ill to need a doctor, surely you can go when you would normally be at work?

    That's not true. I have a long-running sports injury that I mean to see a doctor about, but I can't really take time off for it during the work day.
    Hmm....cant agree sorry... my answer would be that it cant be that bad or you would take the time off to go.

    isam said:

    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    tim said:

    taffys said:

    If only they would look at the rest of Europe where a much higher private provision contributes to a far far better standard of health provision than the NHS.

    Its interesting that a bunch of polish doctors can set up a private GP practice in London charging 70 quid per appointment and get away with it.

    Mind you, you do get half an hour per appointment. And you can go on Sunday.


    Thats was a triumph of advertising by that clinic (which does a lot of acupuncture, botox, 4D scanning, dentistry etc) as it competes with and undercuts BUPA in most areas.

    The longer opening hours on the GP side were quickly brushed over.

    Out-of-hours patients are almost certain to be seen by a locum or a senior nurse.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2337682/Patients-shun-NHS-clinics-run-Polish-GPs-Cut-price-private-surgeries-doctor-seven-days-week.html#ixzz2Vp8zJDUj
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


    And who the hell wants a half hour GP appointment?



    Also, regarding the longer opening hours, if you are sufficiently ill to need a doctor, surely you can go when you would normally be at work?

    That's not true. I have a long-running sports injury that I mean to see a doctor about, but I can't really take time off for it during the work day.
    Hmm....cant agree sorry... my answer would be that it cant be that bad or you would take the time off to go.

    If it was a matter of phoning up on a Monday, getting a time, and going straight in to my appointment a couple days later I would. However, it typically means calling up a Monday, being told they're booked out for 2-3 of weeks (and I won't always know my work location and schedule that far out). Instead I have to call up for a same-day appointment on a Tuesday. Typically they're booked out by the time I get through. So I'd have to do this every Tuesday for a couple of weeks before I get something. Of course, I'm only allowed to register for a GP near my home, not near my work, so I'd have to clear it with my work to stay home every Tuesday morning on the off-chance I get an appointment. And of course, when you get an appointment, they never run on time.

    Ultimately it's an injury that just causes pain and doesn't really affect my day to day life, it just means I can't play certain sports. I'm sure I'll get an appointment for it at some point, but it's a frustration. I also have a few other lingering minor health issues that I'd ultimately like to talk to a doctor about, but I'm not allowed to speak about any more than one issue at any appointment, and I'm not allowed to book multiple appointments in a row. Frankly, just because it's loosely manageable doesn't mean we should accept such a crappy system. I think you're demonstrating the British tolerance of mediocrity, which I think really holds this country back.
    Well they do sound awkward circumstances.

    To be honest if I've ever had sports injuries I've gone to a physio, never really even thought about going to my GP. My Dad was a coach at West Ham for a while and so could use the physio there for free when I done my ankle ligaments, so that was lucky, but otherwise I just paid £40 odd quid to see someone.

    Cant you talk about more than one thing per appt? My doctor lets me bang on about whatever is bothering me when I go, lovely fellow that he is.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited June 2013
    @tim

    If you go to see your GP on any given day, unless you are the first appt, the chances of getting in to see your doctor at the time specified is approx= nil in my experience. Most 10 min appts overrun.
  • Gerry_ManderGerry_Mander Posts: 621
    NPXMP, while you're on, re: visiting a GP. Many people work away from home, or commute long distances, and MPs outside London do this a lot (i.e. they have second home).
    How do they arrange visits to a GP? Do they have their own service?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    tim,

    Fooling the Mail is one thing, fooling the economist a significantly more meritworthy feat ,I would suggest.

    As the Economist remarks, these surgeries seem to have persuaded middle and working class people to pay for services they can get for free.

    Who in their right mind does that? and how bad must the free service be for people to resort to this?

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Cameron's best chance is possibly a flaming row with Clegg which leads to the LibDems storming out of the coalition swearing not to return - that would bring many LD 2010 voters back and perversely give the Tories a potential majority.

    I'm imagining the Tory strategists sitting around time after time every month since 2010 desperately trying to come up with a way to create a flaming row with Nick Clegg, only to find him making his disappointed face and reluctantly going along with it.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited June 2013
    tim said:

    isam said:

    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    tim said:

    taffys said:

    If only they would look at the rest of Europe where a much higher private provision contributes to a far far better standard of health provision than the NHS.

    Its interesting that a bunch of polish doctors can set up a private GP practice in London charging 70 quid per appointment and get away with it.

    Mind you, you do get half an hour per appointment. And you can go on Sunday.


    Thats was a triumph of advertising by that clinic (which does a lot of acupuncture, botox, 4D scanning, dentistry etc) as it competes with and undercuts BUPA in most areas.

    The longer opening hours on the GP side were quickly brushed over.

    Out-of-hours patients are almost certain to be seen by a locum or a senior nurse.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2337682/Patients-shun-NHS-clinics-run-Polish-GPs-Cut-price-private-surgeries-doctor-seven-days-week.html#ixzz2Vp8zJDUj
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


    And who the hell wants a half hour GP appointment?



    Also, regarding the longer opening hours, if you are sufficiently ill to need a doctor, surely you can go when you would normally be at work?

    That's not true. I have a long-running sports injury that I mean to see a doctor about, but I can't really take time off for it during the work day.
    Hmm....cant agree sorry... my answer would be that it cant be that bad or you would take the time off to go.

    isam said:

    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    tim said:

    taffys said:

    If only they would look at the rest of Europe where a much higher private provision contributes to a far far better standard of health provision than the NHS.

    Its interesting that a bunch of polish doctors can set up a private GP practice in London charging 70 quid per appointment and get away with it.

    Mind you, you do get half an hour per appointment. And you can go on Sunday.


    Thats was a triumph of advertising by that clinic (which does a lot of acupuncture, botox, 4D scanning, dentistry etc) as it competes with and undercuts BUPA in most areas.

    The longer opening hours on the GP side were quickly brushed over.

    Out-of-hours patients are almost certain to be seen by a locum or a senior nurse.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2337682/Patients-shun-NHS-clinics-run-Polish-GPs-Cut-price-private-surgeries-doctor-seven-days-week.html#ixzz2Vp8zJDUj
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


    And who the hell wants a half hour GP appointment?



    Also, regarding the longer opening hours, if you are sufficiently ill to need a doctor, surely you can go when you would normally be at work?

    That's not true. I have a long-running sports injury that I mean to see a doctor about, but I can't really take time off for it during the work day.
    Hmm....cant agree sorry... my answer would be that it cant be that bad or you would take the time off to go.

    If it was a matter of phoning up on a Monday, getting a time, and going straight in to my appointment a couple days later I would. However, it typically means calling up a Monday, being told they're booked out for 2-3 of weeks (and I won't always know my work location and schedule that far out). Instead I have to call up for a same-day appointment on a Tuesday. Typically they're booked out by the time I get through. So I'd have to do this every Tuesday for a couple of weeks before I get something. Of course, I'm only allowed to register for a GP near my home, not near my work, so I'd have to clear it with my work to stay home every Tuesday morning on the off-chance I get an appointment. And of course, when you get an appointment, they never run on time.

    Ultimately it's an injury that just causes pain and doesn't really affect my day to day life, it just means I can't play certain sports. I'm sure I'll get an appointment for it at some point, but it's a frustration. I also have a few other lingering minor health issues that I'd ultimately like to talk to a doctor about, but I'm not allowed to speak about any more than one issue at any appointment, and I'm not allowed to book multiple appointments in a row. Frankly, just because it's loosely manageable doesn't mean we should accept such a crappy system. I think you're demonstrating the British tolerance of mediocrity, which I think really holds this country back.
    Well they do sound awkward circumstances.

    To be honest if I've ever had sports injuries I've gone to a physio, never really even thought about going to my GP. My Dad was a coach at West Ham for a while and so could use the physio there for free when I done my ankle ligaments, so that was lucky, but otherwise I just paid £40 odd quid to see someone.

    Many people now with sports injuries end up in walk in centres first, I'm guessing that Socrates has carefully researched this and found that all the walk in centres in his area have been sunk under a wave of immigrants, mainly Muslim immigrants.
    I once went to a walk-in centre in London and it took two hours to be seen. Perhaps you don't know what the hell you're talking about as you've never lived in London, so you don't know what life is like here?

    I don't see why you're bringing Muslims into it, you seem fairly obsessed with them.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited June 2013
    I don't see why you're bringing Muslims into it, you seem fairly obsessed with them.

    Bring in race is the default labour tactic for shutting down debate.

    Tim is desperate to prevent an avalanche of moans about GP services breaking out.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    AveryLP said:

    Some good news from the OECD.

    You forgot the best bit..

    "“In fact, survey evidence for May for the UK has been markedly firmer, not only overall but across a wide range of sectors of the economy,” said Howard Archer, UK economist at IHS Global Insight.

    “As a result, we have upgraded our UK GDP forecasts modestly to 1pc (from 0.8pc) in 2013 and to 1.6pc (from 1.4pc) in 2014.”"
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Tim is particularly arsey at the moment because Ed and Ed are copying George Osborne's policies.

    He's feeling a bit crestfallen.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    If people want to pay for walk in centres - what's wrong with that ?


    I just hope no NHS staff are upset at this turn of events - poor darlings.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited June 2013
    Fenster said:

    Tim is particularly arsey at the moment because Ed and Ed are copying George Osborne's policies.

    He's feeling a bit crestfallen.

    Yes - the economy is off the menu. Not to worry - Mandela will pop his clogs soon and then he can claim everyone not on the brink of suicide is a racist.

  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    In the ST YouGov, 47% of Labour voters and 46% of Labour 2010 blame Brown (for the state of the economy today), as do 82% of LD voters ad 72% of LD 2010.

    However, the economy since 2010 has been controlled by the Coalition but instead the survey targets Darling, Balls, Cameron & Osborne and the Coalition is not included in this question.

    However, it is highly probable that Osborne would have gone for far deeper and severe austerity measures (in order to correct the economic imbalance) if it had not been for the reluctance of the LDs (with one eye on its declining VI) to progress the economic corrective measures as they should have been.

    In the same way the LDs support the EU and immigration (both without changing the status quo of either) and are visibly out of tune with the electorate and are no longer the safe refuge of the disaffected voter. This is evidenced by Clegg's disastrous poll ratings and shown by his "over my dead body" rants at Conservative proposed policies to correct fiscal problems. These very visible and continuous splits in the Coalition are seriously harming both parties to the detriment of the UK.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Charles said:

    The Spectator archive is online from the years 1828 to 2008. They seem free to access.

    http://archive.spectator.co.uk/issues

    Completely O/T

    In his book on London Boris claimed that Turner grew up idly leafing through copies of the Spectator.

    Given that Turner was born in 1775, I guess he was a late developer
    I believe there was an early 18th century magazine called The Spectator published by, inter alia, Joseph Addison.

    Boris, being a Greats scholar, would almost certainly have been referring to the original 'neo-classical' organ rather than its 19th century 'romantic' successor.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    tim said:

    taffys said:

    I don't see why you're bringing Muslims into it, you seem fairly obsessed with them.

    Calling people racists is the default labour tactic for shutting down debate.

    Tim is desperate to prevent an avalanche of moans about GP services breaking out.


    GP's are largely self employed, their services will vary.
    If you don't like the one you are registered with then move.
    Socrates has been whining about this GP for ever.




    Which part of "the limited number of other GPs in my catchment area get even worse ratings" are you struggling ot understand?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Fenster said:

    Tim is particularly arsey at the moment because Ed and Ed are copying George Osborne's policies.

    He's feeling a bit crestfallen.

    He might also be upset that the Home Affairs Select Committee has backed up everything myself and others have been saying on a certain issue.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,711
    Niall Ferguson is on the front page of Die Welt atm:

    http://www.welt.de/
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Socrates - if you don't want to spend your day waiting around for GPs - I suggest you don't play golf on a Friday afternoon. Tee off early and get back in the clubhouse before the doc's have finished their morning cup of morphine.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited June 2013
    Re: GP appointments never being on time.

    I've had several appointments with the kids at 8:30-9:00am - i.e. pretty much first in - and still had to wait 15 minutes or so past the scheduled time. I'm fairly (90%+) sure the time we're given is 10-15 minutes before the 'actual' appointment. This means that patients being late doesn't bugger up the whole day, and (more importantly) the "patient buffer" means the GP's time is used most efficiently. A no-show merely brings the schedule back on track, as opposed to leaving our hard-working and under-paid GP [sarcasm] twiddling their thumbs.

    Even knowing that, it's still f*#king annoying! But at least I never make the 'mistake' of being early any more...

    EDIT: If I was a GP and had to deal with the great unwashed all day long, I'd probably adopt a similar system. But with more golf, natch.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    AveryLP said:

    Charles said:

    The Spectator archive is online from the years 1828 to 2008. They seem free to access.

    http://archive.spectator.co.uk/issues

    Completely O/T

    In his book on London Boris claimed that Turner grew up idly leafing through copies of the Spectator.

    Given that Turner was born in 1775, I guess he was a late developer
    I believe there was an early 18th century magazine called The Spectator published by, inter alia, Joseph Addison.

    Boris, being a Greats scholar, would almost certainly have been referring to the original 'neo-classical' organ rather than its 19th century 'romantic' successor.

    Although he capitalised the name, and as a former editor of that august publication...
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    I was sent to a new GP last week called Dr Ahmed. When I walked in she was a young lady of Pakistani origin wearing traditional head-scarf and absolutely stunningly beautiful, Really. I fell in love.

    I was a bit disappointed that I was there to ask for a referral to be speyed. I was hoping she'd look disappointed too. She didn't. Oh well.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    tim said:

    Socrates said:

    tim said:

    taffys said:

    I don't see why you're bringing Muslims into it, you seem fairly obsessed with them.

    Calling people racists is the default labour tactic for shutting down debate.

    Tim is desperate to prevent an avalanche of moans about GP services breaking out.


    GP's are largely self employed, their services will vary.
    If you don't like the one you are registered with then move.
    Socrates has been whining about this GP for ever.




    Which part of "the limited number of other GPs in my catchment area get even worse ratings" are you struggling ot understand?

    What "ratings" are you using?
    You've moaned about not being able to get an appointment for years yet have done nothing about it nor gone to a walk in centre nor gone to a private physio nor gone to A&E as far as I can work out.
    The last time I moaned about it I eventually got an appointment a couple weeks later. I'm talking about a different health issue at the moment, and, as mentioned, it's not something that gets in the way of my day to day life. I'm sure I'll go at some point - I'm just bringing up the difficulties as people were discussing the topic. The ratings I'm talking about are the patients' reviews on the NHS choices website.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Anorak,

    Surely no-shows are a strong argument for bringing in some sort of GP charge rate, which you could claim back if you are one of the usual protected groups (ie child/student/OAP/on benefits/disabled etc.). Obviously you forfeit the charge if you are a no-show.

    I've read that no-show numbers can be pretty high
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Socrates said:

    tim said:

    Socrates said:

    tim said:

    taffys said:

    I don't see why you're bringing Muslims into it, you seem fairly obsessed with them.

    Calling people racists is the default labour tactic for shutting down debate.

    Tim is desperate to prevent an avalanche of moans about GP services breaking out.


    GP's are largely self employed, their services will vary.
    If you don't like the one you are registered with then move.
    Socrates has been whining about this GP for ever.




    Which part of "the limited number of other GPs in my catchment area get even worse ratings" are you struggling ot understand?

    What "ratings" are you using?
    You've moaned about not being able to get an appointment for years yet have done nothing about it nor gone to a walk in centre nor gone to a private physio nor gone to A&E as far as I can work out.
    The last time I moaned about it I eventually got an appointment a couple weeks later. I'm talking about a different health issue at the moment, and, as mentioned, it's not something that gets in the way of my day to day life. I'm sure I'll go at some point - I'm just bringing up the difficulties as people were discussing the topic. The ratings I'm talking about are the patients' reviews on the NHS choices website.
    Patient reviews ? What's that got to do with the NHS ? Just ask the staff if they are happy or not..


  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited June 2013
    If you charged £5 for every Dr's appointment, you would be seen on time, every time. All the malingerers and timewasters would disappear.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    NPXMP, while you're on, re: visiting a GP. Many people work away from home, or commute long distances, and MPs outside London do this a lot (i.e. they have second home).
    How do they arrange visits to a GP? Do they have their own service?

    I think that this is permitted to some degree now, and it was always possible to see a GP in another part of the country with a temporary visitor form.

    There are issues about seeing a doctor when you do not live nearby. One is the impossibility of house calls, a second is that many other services such as district nurses are locality based, a third is commissioning. Who pays for a scan on your knee? Currently budgets are held by your registrred GP. If someone else orders a scan then should they pay for it? If not then why should your GP pay, if he has not decided that it is an appropriate use of resources.

    There are further issues such as if it turns out you need an arthroscopy, who should make and pay for the referral? Who is responsible for follow up?

    In a private system the GP is not responsible for these other issues. There are pros and cons
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    If you charged £5 for every Dr's appointment, you would be seen on time, every time. All the malingerers and timewasters would disappear.

    If the doctor had to pay you if you had to wait - like Easyjet have to - you would be seen on time too...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @tim

    Right, it's not ideal, but there's not great information out there. I've asked friends in the area and they have said they have similar problems. Considering that changing your GP generally means having to visit in person during work hours, it's not the sort of thing I want to take time off work for in order to likely end up with a surgery with similar problems, only further from my normal commute.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,711
    Tony Blair writing in the Spectator on 18th August 1979 on the subject of immigration:

    http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/18th-august-1979/12/second-class-justice
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    TGOHF said:

    If you charged £5 for every Dr's appointment, you would be seen on time, every time. All the malingerers and timewasters would disappear.

    If the doctor had to pay you if you had to wait - like Easyjet have to - you would be seen on time too...
    Since when do EasyJet have to pay for delays?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,543

    NPXMP, while you're on, re: visiting a GP. Many people work away from home, or commute long distances, and MPs outside London do this a lot (i.e. they have second home).
    How do they arrange visits to a GP? Do they have their own service?

    There are a couple of nurses in the Commons to give first aid if needed, and as noted below you can sign up with a temp GP whether you're an MP or not for anything urgent. But GPs in my experience don't like to mess around with other GPs' patients so they do the minimum and ask you to go back to your regular one asap. Or, of course, you can switch to a London area GP, and the Commons has a recommended list. I had one of those - he was struck off after a while, for giving heroin to a fake sheikh working for the NotW. He had a great bedside manner and my mother (who I was looking after at the time as she was bedridden in my flat in her final year) really liked him, but he probably wasn't very good.

    Anecdotes aside, what strikes me from the thread is that GPs simply vary a great deal, and so do their practices. In general I've never had trouble getting appointments when I wanted them, but I know people who still have GPs with the stupid "keep ringing at 8am until you get through" system, which really is a reason to switch GP all on its own.

  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    VERY-IMPORTANT-NOTICE

    Some of OGH's immature people have proposed that there is an official "Open-borders" group amongst us. Please allow me to clarify that there is not.

    As, and until one-self, Wee-Timmy and Junior seek to set up such a cadre none exists. Everything else is a pale imititation.

    Should any poster wish to encourage the above-named people to form such a cadre then please post enthusiasm. Being one of the - ahem - intelligent ones I propose that we have a simple exam: "What fo you like most about this: The video or the lyrics?"

    [Judging-panel yet to agree common-rules....]
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Isn't the NHS meant to be there as a safety net to make sure people are not in the schtuck if they become seriously ill, not something to use if you get a sports related injury that didn't affect daily life?

    Not digging you out personally @Socrates by the way.

    If GPs just treated people who were ill enough not to work and these Polish type surgeries were the only place you could get other treatments such as cryosurgery etc which my Doc does for free then that would be a better system for me

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,711
    edited June 2013
    Article on the yuppie phenomenon from 15th March 1986:

    http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/15th-march-1986/9/the-new-club-of-rich-young-men
    "Money is the new club. In the early years of this decade it was narcotics that provided the focus and conversation for the aimless young rich. Now their more responsible and industrious cousins (some of whom felt rather left out during the drugs era, working away in their dull City offices) have a club of their own. Membership qualifications: a large salary, minimum £75,000. Club benefits: lively complacent conversation about tax avoidance, accoun- tancy fees and how to spend what's left."
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963
    Welcome back, Mike, hope you had a nice holiday! And thanks to TSE for coming up with very interesting threads in the meantime!
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    NPXMP, while you're on, re: visiting a GP. Many people work away from home, or commute long distances, and MPs outside London do this a lot (i.e. they have second home).
    How do they arrange visits to a GP? Do they have their own service?

    ...I know people who still have GPs with the stupid "keep ringing at 8am until you get through" system, which really is a reason to switch GP all on its own.
    Just to let you know - my GP practice introduced this system when Blair guaranteed everyone would be able to see a GP within 24 hours. Just like that and one could not make an appointment in advance. Amazing the years of annoyance that can be caused by a few casual words.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    isam said:

    Isn't the NHS meant to be there as a safety net to make sure people are not in the schtuck if they become seriously ill, not something to use if you get a sports related injury that didn't affect daily life?

    Not digging you out personally @Socrates by the way.

    If GPs just treated people who were ill enough not to work and these Polish type surgeries were the only place you could get other treatments such as cryosurgery etc which my Doc does for free then that would be a better system for me

    I think the plan is that GPs are the gatekeepers to the rest of the health service. I can understand the purpose of it, but we need proper competition. They should get rid of catchment area restrictions.

    There also needs to be a big movement to electronic communication, both between patients and GPs, but also between GPs and pharmacists.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    tim said:


    Easyjet pay you if they are delayed?
    Really?

    Yes ... if it was sufficiently delayed and it was Easyjet's fault and it was an EU flight.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963
    Andy_JS said:
    UK no.1 that week was "Chain Reaction" by Diana Ross!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,711
    edited June 2013
    Kelly-Marie Blundell has been selected for the LDs in Guildford. She unsuccessfully contested Guildford South-East in the local elections this year:

    http://mycouncil.surreycc.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.aspx?ID=123
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    tim said:


    I know the theory, but when is it ever Easyjets fault?
    And what is "sufficiently"

    I believe "sufficiently" is three hours. And it will be Easyjet's fault when it's not someone (or something) else's fault.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    NPXMP, while you're on, re: visiting a GP. Many people work away from home, or commute long distances, and MPs outside London do this a lot (i.e. they have second home).
    How do they arrange visits to a GP? Do they have their own service?

    There are a couple of nurses in the Commons to give first aid if needed, and as noted below you can sign up with a temp GP whether you're an MP or not for anything urgent. But GPs in my experience don't like to mess around with other GPs' patients so they do the minimum and ask you to go back to your regular one asap. Or, of course, you can switch to a London area GP, and the Commons has a recommended list. I had one of those - he was struck off after a while, for giving heroin to a fake sheikh working for the NotW. He had a great bedside manner and my mother (who I was looking after at the time as she was bedridden in my flat in her final year) really liked him, but he probably wasn't very good.

    Anecdotes aside, what strikes me from the thread is that GPs simply vary a great deal, and so do their practices. In general I've never had trouble getting appointments when I wanted them, but I know people who still have GPs with the stupid "keep ringing at 8am until you get through" system, which really is a reason to switch GP all on its own.

    FWIW, when out GP practice (good) closed down we registered at the nearest one. It was terrible (the new hire who handled the baby checks really managed to alienate my wife). So we registered at the next nearest one & have had had no complaints so far. Provided you are flexible on which GP you see (group practice) you can get in within 1-2 days although it's up to a week if you want to see "your" GP.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    @TGOHF

    pay you if you had to wait - like Easyjet have to

    Easyjet pay you if they are delayed?
    Really?

    It's an EU law - so once Ukip rule over England you will no longer receive payouts :)

    http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/

    "Financial compensation
    In addition, if you are denied boarding, your flight is cancelled or arrives more than 3 hours late on arrival at the final destination stated on your ticket, you may be entitled to compensation of €250 - 600, depending on the distance of the flight:

    Within the EU

    1,500 km or less – €250
    over 1,500 km – €400
    Between EU airport and non-EU airport

    1,500 km or less – €250
    1,500 – 3,500 km – €400
    over 3,500 km – €600"
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    Charles said:

    NPXMP, while you're on, re: visiting a GP. Many people work away from home, or commute long distances, and MPs outside London do this a lot (i.e. they have second home).
    How do they arrange visits to a GP? Do they have their own service?

    There are a couple of nurses in the Commons to give first aid if needed, and as noted below you can sign up with a temp GP whether you're an MP or not for anything urgent. But GPs in my experience don't like to mess around with other GPs' patients so they do the minimum and ask you to go back to your regular one asap. Or, of course, you can switch to a London area GP, and the Commons has a recommended list. I had one of those - he was struck off after a while, for giving heroin to a fake sheikh working for the NotW. He had a great bedside manner and my mother (who I was looking after at the time as she was bedridden in my flat in her final year) really liked him, but he probably wasn't very good.

    Anecdotes aside, what strikes me from the thread is that GPs simply vary a great deal, and so do their practices. In general I've never had trouble getting appointments when I wanted them, but I know people who still have GPs with the stupid "keep ringing at 8am until you get through" system, which really is a reason to switch GP all on its own.

    FWIW, when out GP practice (good) closed down we registered at the nearest one. It was terrible (the new hire who handled the baby checks really managed to alienate my wife). So we registered at the next nearest one & have had had no complaints so far. Provided you are flexible on which GP you see (group practice) you can get in within 1-2 days although it's up to a week if you want to see "your" GP.


    I want to see Fenster's GP.

    You haven't seen my GP... very elegant and charming young Chinese lady (American born). Seriously pretty and very switched on as well :-)
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The accuracy of the Mail/Economist reports may be a moot point, but I don;t see how offering GP services to middle class people at a price can be a bad thing per se, as long as the same services still remain free for everyone else.

    Extra capacity surely has to be a good thing, and these services have the net effect of increasing public spending on an (already ring-fenced) area.

    I think they should be encouraged.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,444
    TGOHF said:





    Within the EU

    1,500 km or less – €250
    over 1,500 km – €400
    Between EU airport and non-EU airport

    1,500 km or less – €250
    1,500 – 3,500 km – €400
    over 3,500 km – €600"

    Those figures are actually poor compared to Turkey.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited June 2013
    Local elections in Italy during the weekend...PD take back Rome very easily. They struggled in Siena (local banking scandals) but they survived. Some impressive gains all around (Imperia, Treviso) in low turnout.

    Results for run offs in main cities voting
    CL=Centre-Left CR=Centre-Right

    Brescia
    CL 56.53% CR 43.47%
    Turnout 59.27%

    Lodi
    CL 53.62% CR 46.38%
    Turnout 53.08%

    Treviso
    CL 55.5% CR 44.5%
    Turnout 58.61%

    Imperia
    CL 76.14 CR 23.86
    Turnout 52.98

    Siena
    CL 52% CR 48%
    Turnout 54.97%

    Ancona
    CL 62.59 CR 37.41
    Turnout 41.97

    Rome
    CL 63.93 CR 36.07
    Turnout 45.05

    Viterbo
    CL 62.86 CR 37.14
    Turnout 50.59

    Avellino
    CL 60.57 CR 39.43
    Turnout 53.91

    Barletta
    CL 62.89 CR 37.11
    Turnout 49.44

    Iglesias
    CL 51.68 CR 48.32
    Turnout 57.81%

    Waiting for Sicily now....first round there



  • Gerry_ManderGerry_Mander Posts: 621
    taffys said:

    The accuracy of the Mail/Economist reports may be a moot point, but I don;t see how offering GP services to middle class people at a price can be a bad thing per se, as long as the same services still remain free for everyone else.

    Extra capacity surely has to be a good thing, and these services have the net effect of increasing public spending on an (already ring-fenced) area.

    I think they should be encouraged.

    Depends what you mean by 'the same services remain free'. Do you mean the existing services? If people have to pay for out of hours services (e.g. evening appointments), should those also be free for people who don't need them?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,300
    In the 1980's Labour sometimes had HUGE mid term leads (much bigger than we see now) while still being blamed for the economic trouble's of the 1970's and the Winter Of Discontent...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,939
    edited June 2013
    Is my memory playing tricks on me or was it the OECD who very recently (like last week) who cut their growth forecast from 0.9% to 0.8%? I seem to recall some Labour MP (Chris Leslie? ) thought this was possibly the end of the UK or something.

    Well this week they have increased their growth projection for this year from 0.8% to 1.0%: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10110414/UK-in-growth-mode-as-recovery-gathers-pace-says-OECD.html

    It would appear that it is not only in politics that a week is a long time. It is comforting to know they are getting well paid for all this assistance. For free I can pretty much guarantee that they will increase their forecast again as soon as the Q2 figures are available.

    Edit It was actually 29th May. So that is alright then. Muppets.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    I thought this was fantastic , well worth seeing and more, hearing>
    http://www.themarysue.com/game-of-thrones-cosplay-piano/
    Cos plays Game of Thrones.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited June 2013

    NPXMP, while you're on, re: visiting a GP. Many people work away from home, or commute long distances, and MPs outside London do this a lot (i.e. they have second home).
    How do they arrange visits to a GP? Do they have their own service?

    ...I know people who still have GPs with the stupid "keep ringing at 8am until you get through" system, which really is a reason to switch GP all on its own.
    Just to let you know - my GP practice introduced this system when Blair guaranteed everyone would be able to see a GP within 24 hours. Just like that and one could not make an appointment in advance. Amazing the years of annoyance that can be caused by a few casual words.
    This is the crux of the matter. Blair made the statement that all GPs had to offer appointments within 48 hours, therefore many of them had to adopt the 0800 phone rush for urgent appointments.

    My own GP has a better system. In the morning surgery there are no appointments, you just turn up and wait to be seen in order. In the evening surgery you can make appointments weeks in advance if nessecary to see a particular doctor. They meet the target without the phone rush.

    The regulars know when to arrive so that it is less busy, and turn up when it tends to be quiet, while casual attenders turn up at times of their convenience. It is an excellent practice, with an old fashioned sense of duty to the patients combined with modern facilities.

    GPs get paid about £100 per annum for a patient, and could provide the level of service of the Polish clinic if paid £70 per visit, and had a third the number of patients. Even more so if they could pick and choose only those wealthy (and healthy) enough to pay.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited June 2013
    @Fenster @Charles

    Thankfully, my excellent GP is afflicted by chronic onion-breath, a nervous blink and advanced alopecia, which means he always has appointment slots available.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @foxinsoxuk Could the same regulars manage not to turn up in supermarkets on Saturday mornings sauntering around slowly and complaining with surprise at just how much busier it is than yesterday?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Pong said:

    Thankfully, my excellent GP is afflicted by chronic onion-breath, a nervous blink and advanced alopecia, which means he always has appointment slots available.

    I guess, if your name means anything, it's a meeting of bodies.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    antifrank said:

    @foxinsoxuk Could the same regulars manage not to turn up in supermarkets on Saturday mornings sauntering around slowly and complaining with surprise at just how much busier it is than yesterday?

    But to do so would deprive them of their entertainment!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,850
    Mr. K, thanks for that Game of Thrones/piano video.

    'tis an excellent series. I hope that the final book can come out before the TV reaches its seventh and final season.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Mr. K, thanks for that Game of Thrones/piano video.

    'tis an excellent series. I hope that the final book can come out before the TV reaches its seventh and final season.

    Me too: if it is the final book! LOL

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,711
    O/T:

    This is how the Somerset constituencies voted in the local elections:

    Bridgwater & Somerset West: ["Con hold"]

    Con: 10,166 (40.37%)
    UKIP: 5,326 (21.15%)
    Lab: 4,932 (19.59%)
    LD: 2,859 (11.35%)
    Ind: 1,605 (6.37%)
    Green: 292 (1.16%)

    Somerton & Frome: ["Con gain from LD"]

    Con: 12,240 (39.43%)
    LD: 9,254 (29.81%)
    UKIP: 5,722 (18.44%)
    Lab: 2,432 (7.83%)
    Green: 1,391 (4.48%)

    Taunton Deane: ["Con gain from LD"]

    Con: 8,941 (29.14%)
    LD: 8,335 (27.17%)
    UKIP: 5,655 (18.43%)
    Lab: 4,236 (13.81%)
    Ind: 2,431 (7.92%)
    Green: 1,080 (3.52%)

    Wells: ["Con gain from LD"]

    Con: 11,138 (40.42%)
    LD: 6,720 (24.39%)
    UKIP: 4,206 (15.27%)
    Lab: 3,326 (12.07%)
    Green: 1,868 (6.78%)
    Ind: 297 (1.08%)

    Yeovil: ["LD hold"]

    LD: 10,654 (34.99%)
    Con: 8,496 (27.90%)
    UKIP: 7,818 (25.67%)
    Lab: 2,262 (7.43%)
    Green: 1,182 (3.88%)
    Others: 42 (0.14%)

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dFNVZDV4bWQzWkJHUjAwNDE3Tm1SLWc#gid=0
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    Labour lead smallest for a year as Ukip threatens all three parties

    Labour’s lead over the Conservatives has dropped to its lowest level for more than a year, according to The Independent’s latest poll of polls.

    It suggests that Nigel Farage’s UK Independence Party is eating into Labour’s support as well as harming the Tories. Labour enjoyed an eight-point advantage in April but last month that dropped to five points in May, its lowest since March last year.

    Despite a flatlining economy and Tory divisions over Europe and gay marriage, Labour’s lead has been on a downward track since February this year, when it was 13 points ahead. The latest weighted average of the polls puts Labour on 35 per cent (down four points on the previous month), the Tories on 30 per cent (down one point), Ukip on 15 per cent (up three points) and the Liberal Democrats on 11 per cent (unchanged).


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-lead-smallest-for-a-year-as-ukip-threatens-all-three-parties-8652863.html
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    tim

    You would never be in favour of anything that challenged the "supremacy" of the NHS.
    As it happens I don't need to go private for GP services because my Doctor is superb. If she wasn't , I would look elsewhere/think about private if I could find nothing suitable.

    I go to a private dentist, because I can see my dentist at the time of MY choosing. I pay extra for that privilege, but it is my money and I can do what I like with it, just as you can. Funny thing choice.. you seem to think choice is ok as long as or until it doesn't match up to YOUR political beliefs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401
    There were actually some splits emerging on the left last week from the likes of Hain and Compass and Labour's lead really isn't that impressive, as I said yesterday the combined Tory and UKIP vote is significantly higher than the Labour vote were Cameron to win most of it back!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Millsy said:

    Labour lead smallest for a year as Ukip threatens all three parties

    Labour’s lead over the Conservatives has dropped to its lowest level for more than a year, according to The Independent’s latest poll of polls.

    It suggests that Nigel Farage’s UK Independence Party is eating into Labour’s support as well as harming the Tories. Labour enjoyed an eight-point advantage in April but last month that dropped to five points in May, its lowest since March last year.

    Despite a flatlining economy and Tory divisions over Europe and gay marriage, Labour’s lead has been on a downward track since February this year, when it was 13 points ahead. The latest weighted average of the polls puts Labour on 35 per cent (down four points on the previous month), the Tories on 30 per cent (down one point), Ukip on 15 per cent (up three points) and the Liberal Democrats on 11 per cent (unchanged).


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-lead-smallest-for-a-year-as-ukip-threatens-all-three-parties-8652863.html

    That isn't a new poll, it's the Indy's latest poll of polls.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    edited June 2013
    TNS - BMRB poll out

    CON 27% (+3), LAB 36% (-1), LD 8% (-2), UKIP 19% (0), OTHER 10% (0)

    Fieldwork 6th June to 10th of June.

    http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/news-and-events/media-alert-labour-lead-the-conservative-party-by-nine-points
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401
    Edmund in Tokyo - Thanks for that Michigan poll, it is, at this early stage, looking like Paul v Hillary in 2016 which would be fascinating , with a probable Hillary win, but obviously some way to go
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963

    TNS - BMRB poll out

    CON 27% (+3), LAB 36% (-1), LD 8% (-2), UKIP 19% (0), OTHER 10% (0)

    Fieldwork 6th June to 10th of June.

    http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/news-and-events/media-alert-labour-lead-the-conservative-party-by-nine-points

    TNS-BMRB/The Sunil:

    Tory/UKIP 46%
    Lab/Lib 44%
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    On topic, welcome back Mike.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    On the important issue of catgate, I see even the Scottish parliament is getting in on the act:

    http://order-order.com/2013/06/10/mclarry-rejected/#comments

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited June 2013
    Sky

    Tim Yeo to stand aside temporarily from DECC committee.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    @tim
    As you have said frequently on here.. "Can't you read" ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401
    SeanT - Fascinating story, you never know who you will encounter!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SeanT said:

    PB ANECDOTE ALERT FOR FANS OF DANTE

    So I was wandering around Florence this afternoon, with my guide, and in between seeing the first perspectival painting in history, next door to my hotel, and eating a tripe sandwich with parsley, we sat down at a cafe for a quick macchiato.

    The young owner of the cafe was very charming in that languid Italian way and waived my bill.

    As we left the cafe my guide, the incredibly intelligent Laura, casually said, "Oh he's rich, he's a Peruzzi, of the Peruzzi family. They've lived on this street, Borgo dei Greci, since the 12th century, in fact his family is mentioned as living here by Dante, in the Divine Comedy."

    I thought she must be joking, but she's right. The Peruzzi, then known as 'della Pera', (of the pear) are cited in Canto XVI of Paradiso, and Dante refers to the location of their home. At the end of Borgo dei Greci. Some historians dispute that the Peruzzi are definitely the same as 'della Pera' but experts in Florentine dynasties are in no doubt.

    How bloody incredible is that? It's like meeting a banker in Verona, who buys you a gin and tonic then casually mentions his name is Jonny Capulet. Or maybe its like bumping into Dave Beowulf in a Norwegian gastropub called Grendels Mere.

    Bloody brilliant, anyway.

    It's not quite as glam, but my parents once met someone called Gordon Bennett when they were in a small pub in Canada. My father was running through a litany of obscure British curses when someone answered...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,441
    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    PB ANECDOTE ALERT FOR FANS OF DANTE

    So I was wandering around Florence this afternoon, with my guide, and in between seeing the first perspectival painting in history, next door to my hotel, and eating a tripe sandwich with parsley, we sat down at a cafe for a quick macchiato.

    The young owner of the cafe was very charming in that languid Italian way and waived my bill.

    As we left the cafe my guide, the incredibly intelligent Laura, casually said, "Oh he's rich, he's a Peruzzi, of the Peruzzi family. They've lived on this street, Borgo dei Greci, since the 12th century, in fact his family is mentioned as living here by Dante, in the Divine Comedy."

    I thought she must be joking, but she's right. The Peruzzi, then known as 'della Pera', (of the pear) are cited in Canto XVI of Paradiso, and Dante refers to the location of their home. At the end of Borgo dei Greci. Some historians dispute that the Peruzzi are definitely the same as 'della Pera' but experts in Florentine dynasties are in no doubt.

    How bloody incredible is that? It's like meeting a banker in Verona, who buys you a gin and tonic then casually mentions his name is Jonny Capulet. Or maybe its like bumping into Dave Beowulf in a Norwegian gastropub called Grendels Mere.

    Bloody brilliant, anyway.

    It's not quite as glam, but my parents once met someone called Gordon Bennett when they were in a small pub in Canada. My father was running through a litany of obscure British curses when someone answered...
    My wife's uncle is called Gordon Bennett, I was speaking with him this pm.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    PB ANECDOTE ALERT FOR FANS OF DANTE

    So I was wandering around Florence this afternoon, with my guide, and in between seeing the first perspectival painting in history, next door to my hotel, and eating a tripe sandwich with parsley, we sat down at a cafe for a quick macchiato.

    The young owner of the cafe was very charming in that languid Italian way and waived my bill.

    As we left the cafe my guide, the incredibly intelligent Laura, casually said, "Oh he's rich, he's a Peruzzi, of the Peruzzi family. They've lived on this street, Borgo dei Greci, since the 12th century, in fact his family is mentioned as living here by Dante, in the Divine Comedy."

    I thought she must be joking, but she's right. The Peruzzi, then known as 'della Pera', (of the pear) are cited in Canto XVI of Paradiso, and Dante refers to the location of their home. At the end of Borgo dei Greci. Some historians dispute that the Peruzzi are definitely the same as 'della Pera' but experts in Florentine dynasties are in no doubt.

    How bloody incredible is that? It's like meeting a banker in Verona, who buys you a gin and tonic then casually mentions his name is Jonny Capulet. Or maybe its like bumping into Dave Beowulf in a Norwegian gastropub called Grendels Mere.

    Bloody brilliant, anyway.

    It's not quite as glam, but my parents once met someone called Gordon Bennett when they were in a small pub in Canada. My father was running through a litany of obscure British curses when someone answered...
    My dentist was called Gordon Bennett...
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    PB ANECDOTE ALERT FOR FANS OF DANTE

    So I was wandering around Florence this afternoon, with my guide, and in between seeing the first perspectival painting in history, next door to my hotel, and eating a tripe sandwich with parsley, we sat down at a cafe for a quick macchiato.

    The young owner of the cafe was very charming in that languid Italian way and waived my bill.

    As we left the cafe my guide, the incredibly intelligent Laura, casually said, "Oh he's rich, he's a Peruzzi, of the Peruzzi family. They've lived on this street, Borgo dei Greci, since the 12th century, in fact his family is mentioned as living here by Dante, in the Divine Comedy."

    I thought she must be joking, but she's right. The Peruzzi, then known as 'della Pera', (of the pear) are cited in Canto XVI of Paradiso, and Dante refers to the location of their home. At the end of Borgo dei Greci. Some historians dispute that the Peruzzi are definitely the same as 'della Pera' but experts in Florentine dynasties are in no doubt.

    How bloody incredible is that? It's like meeting a banker in Verona, who buys you a gin and tonic then casually mentions his name is Jonny Capulet. Or maybe its like bumping into Dave Beowulf in a Norwegian gastropub called Grendels Mere.

    Bloody brilliant, anyway.

    It's not quite as glam, but my parents once met someone called Gordon Bennett when they were in a small pub in Canada. My father was running through a litany of obscure British curses when someone answered...
    Whats even more remarkable is for the Peruzzi family to keep and hoard their wealth for 900 years or so. In fact it's bloody amazing.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    @tim

    and just continuing on, of course your point about GP's being self employed is irrelevant. Who do you think pays the GP's? Is it the NHS or the magic money tree? Take your time..
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,415
    On topic, there's nothing remarkable about Labour's polling lead, local election results, or by-election results, unlike the 1993-97 period. And, almost certainly, unhappiness with the economic record of the last government is responsible. Along with UKIP mopping up swing voters, in place of Labour or Lib Dems.

    I think Rod C's expectation of a 2% swing from Con to Lab in 2015 is about right, which, allowing for first time incumbency, probably leaves the Conservatives just ahead in seats.

    Indifference among centre-right voters is the biggest danger to the Conservatives.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,971
    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    PB ANECDOTE ALERT FOR FANS OF DANTE

    So I was wandering around Florence this afternoon, with my guide, and in between seeing the first perspectival painting in history, next door to my hotel, and eating a tripe sandwich with parsley, we sat down at a cafe for a quick macchiato.

    The young owner of the cafe was very charming in that languid Italian way and waived my bill.

    As we left the cafe my guide, the incredibly intelligent Laura, casually said, "Oh he's rich, he's a Peruzzi, of the Peruzzi family. They've lived on this street, Borgo dei Greci, since the 12th century, in fact his family is mentioned as living here by Dante, in the Divine Comedy."

    I thought she must be joking, but she's right. The Peruzzi, then known as 'della Pera', (of the pear) are cited in Canto XVI of Paradiso, and Dante refers to the location of their home. At the end of Borgo dei Greci. Some historians dispute that the Peruzzi are definitely the same as 'della Pera' but experts in Florentine dynasties are in no doubt.

    How bloody incredible is that? It's like meeting a banker in Verona, who buys you a gin and tonic then casually mentions his name is Jonny Capulet. Or maybe its like bumping into Dave Beowulf in a Norwegian gastropub called Grendels Mere.

    Bloody brilliant, anyway.

    It's not quite as glam, but my parents once met someone called Gordon Bennett when they were in a small pub in Canada. My father was running through a litany of obscure British curses when someone answered...
    I knew a Gordon Bennett well; he owns/ed a large share in a Peak-class locomotive.

    But the best I know of was an acquaintance of my father's in Derby, a Hans Christian Andersen. He once got arrested by the police who, when hearing his name said: "tell me another fairy story" and threw him in the cells until he could be ID'd.

    What sort of evil parents, if they have the surname Andersen, name their child 'Hans Christian'? I never got the nerve to ask him.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,415
    Sean T, a friend of mine found himself canvassing Svetlana Stalin.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Rod's figures are plucked out of thin air.

    Rather like his predictions for Pope.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited June 2013
    MikeK said:

    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    PB ANECDOTE ALERT FOR FANS OF DANTE

    So I was wandering around Florence this afternoon, with my guide, and in between seeing the first perspectival painting in history, next door to my hotel, and eating a tripe sandwich with parsley, we sat down at a cafe for a quick macchiato.

    The young owner of the cafe was very charming in that languid Italian way and waived my bill.

    As we left the cafe my guide, the incredibly intelligent Laura, casually said, "Oh he's rich, he's a Peruzzi, of the Peruzzi family. They've lived on this street, Borgo dei Greci, since the 12th century, in fact his family is mentioned as living here by Dante, in the Divine Comedy."

    I thought she must be joking, but she's right. The Peruzzi, then known as 'della Pera', (of the pear) are cited in Canto XVI of Paradiso, and Dante refers to the location of their home. At the end of Borgo dei Greci. Some historians dispute that the Peruzzi are definitely the same as 'della Pera' but experts in Florentine dynasties are in no doubt.

    How bloody incredible is that? It's like meeting a banker in Verona, who buys you a gin and tonic then casually mentions his name is Jonny Capulet. Or maybe its like bumping into Dave Beowulf in a Norwegian gastropub called Grendels Mere.

    Bloody brilliant, anyway.

    It's not quite as glam, but my parents once met someone called Gordon Bennett when they were in a small pub in Canada. My father was running through a litany of obscure British curses when someone answered...
    Whats even more remarkable is for the Peruzzi family to keep and hoard their wealth for 900 years or so. In fact it's bloody amazing.
    Nah, it's ok. There at 7 (I think) members of the tercentenary club in the UK: given that commerce didn't take off until the 17th century that's pretty good.

    There was a Japanese company (Kongo Gumi) that passed father to son for over from 578AD until 2006 when it went bust. How sh1tty must the 40th generation feel about that...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,545
    edited June 2013
    What about the triplets in the news the other day. All girls, all with the initial K. How sweet people thought , I expect, until they grew up, one had a problem with a store card and another wanted a mortgage!
    All Ms K (whatever), same birthday, same home address!
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    What about the triplets in the news the other day. All girls, all with the initial K. How sweet people thought , I expect, until they grew up, one had a problem with a store card and another wanted a mortgage!
    All Ms K (whatever), same birthday, same home address!

    I hope the first triplet wasn't named Ku.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,415
    The Earls of Mar have been prominent Peers since 1014.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    IOS said:

    Rod's figures are plucked out of thin air.

    Rod backs up his figures.

    Some of your predictions on the other hand...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sean_F said:

    The Earls of Mar have been prominent Peers since 1014.

    Am I allowed to say that they don't count...

    (for the obvious reason. They count slightly more than the other lot, and even more than the lot that invented HSH, but still not that much)
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Yay, Mike Smithson returns and we have our PB back!

    On topic, even people who would vote Labour in a heartbeat probably "blame" the last Labour Government for the economic situation.

    After all, it was on Labour's watch that the banks caused global economic meltdown and the deficit problems said meltdown created.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    edited June 2013
    His figures may be solid but his assertions that go with them has no sound basis. You certainly wouldn't invest on the back of them.

    And my predictions were just that. I don't try and push a jump up theory as a scientific basis for accurate forecast.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    IOS said:

    You certainly wouldn't invest on the back of them.

    Rod does. Serious amounts by all accounts.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Well he cocked his pope predictions up and lost big. I am not saying he won't ever win a few. But to say that they are directly correlated to his theories - as opposed to just being sound trading etc - is very much a stretch.

    He is also a bigot who claimed gay marriage was society committing suicide so I have no time for his politics either.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Sean_F said:

    Sean T, a friend of mine found himself canvassing Svetlana Stalin.

    Did she ask him how many tanks he had ?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,263



    Off topic, but Josias, yesterday I found out who you were named after... you built the Wey & Arun Navigation. (Was walking along it between Shamley Green and Guildford).

  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Syria. Critical Phase?

    Two quick things to note.

    1. Assad's forces have launched an offensive in the environs of Aleppo. The assumption is that this is going to be tough nut to crack. The rebels, however, couldn't really afford to be swept out of the area, oine in which they themsdelves have a real chance of gaining control over. . In the absence of outside assistance, however, assuming (big ifs) Assad continues to get supplies of men and materiel in and he doesn't get stretched out of shape by rebel actions elsewhere then it is possible. The fight over the city area may be long.

    2. There is a third external player lining up behind Assad and one who's influence may turn out to be critical. Russia, Iran, Hizbollah (plus other Lebanese Shiite forces) have been joined by Iraq. Iraq's presence isn't new but its extent is growing. After over a year ago quite happily letting Sunni militias march over the border to fight in Syria, promptly ridding their own country of them, Iraq has become increasingly involved in, a) helping to support Assad financially and materially, b) allowing Shiite forces over the border to fight on Assad's side and c) moving to cut off rebel supply routes in the East. They are a unreported factor but one who history will show as significant.

    With little sign of the US/Russian peace conference getting far this thing isn't going to get easier.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,850
    Mr. Y0kel, cheers for that post. It's always interesting to hear your opinion/information regarding the situation in Syria (and elsewhere).

    It seems that recently Assad, after losing much ground, is very much on the front foot.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    Syria. Critical Phase?

    Two quick things to note.



    With little sign of the US/Russian peace conference getting far this thing isn't going to get easier.

    There will never be any major western intervention in Syria. In fact, after the utter disaster of Iraq, I doubt if there will ever be any serious western military intervention in the Middle East ever again (apart from dropping bombs and drones).

    Those days are done.

    No one expects 'major' Western intervention. The question is, will there be any concerted effort, which has always revolved around the options of a) arms, b) intelligence and c) the creation of a no fly zone but without using aircraft to enforce it, after a very odd kind of half hearted tap on, tap off approach led by the US.

    They have been the only three things on any table for some time.
This discussion has been closed.