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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON to LAB swing in 40 key marginals moves to 4.5% accordin

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited February 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON to LAB swing in 40 key marginals moves to 4.5% according to new ComRes ITV poll

In all marginals polling the figure you need to look for is what the vote split was in the seats polled at the last general election. In this case it was 37% CON 37% LAB. So CON down 6 to 31 and LAB up 3 to 40 equates to a 4.5% CON to LAB swing.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    4.5% swing - bang in line with national polling tbh.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Lib Dems on 8% looks... high.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    UKIP coming off the boil but not changing anything much.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Any squeezing from 15 UKIP, 8 LD, 5 Greens looks like it'll probably be broadly neutral at first glance.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Cons need a big tax cutting budget.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    TGOHF said:

    Cons need a big tax cutting budget.

    Last hope.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    Yes it is in line with national polling and shows what a mountain the tories have to climb. This has been a very busy week but this weekend I must get some money on a Labour majority before the price collapses.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Lib Dems on 8% looks... high.

    That's not too far out of line with what Lord Ashcroft has found. In his constituency polls on average, the Lib Dems are averaging around 6.5% or so (south of the border) in seats where they are not in contention:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/missing-presumed-red-2010-lib-dems.html
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Floater said:
    One only has to look at the Indy ref to see that business warnings change minds in the privacy of the booth.
  • antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lib Dems on 8% looks... high.

    That's not too far out of line with what Lord Ashcroft has found. In his constituency polls on average, the Lib Dems are averaging around 6.5% or so (south of the border) in seats where they are not in contention:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/missing-presumed-red-2010-lib-dems.html
    That's not good news for them, is it?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    Alanbrooke

    "Pah Roger metropolitan posturing. Round Ludlow the paperboy gets a pitchfork up the jacksy if he distributes the tax planning Guardian."

    It's not the Ludlow paperboys using the Guardian to do their tax planning that surprises me -without metropolitan lovelies to entertain them what are they to do?-but that you kept Vaughans hot pork sandwiches quiet for so long
  • antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lib Dems on 8% looks... high.

    That's not too far out of line with what Lord Ashcroft has found. In his constituency polls on average, the Lib Dems are averaging around 6.5% or so (south of the border) in seats where they are not in contention:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/missing-presumed-red-2010-lib-dems.html
    That's not good news for them, is it?
    At 6.5% in such seats, the Lib Dems have reasonable hopes of escaping with a mauling rather than a massacre. At 8% in such seats, the Lib Dems should be bricking themselves. The problem is that the difference between the two is really hard to judge from polls.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    Lib Dems on 8% looks... high.

    Are Comres the ones who give the Lib Dems the high scores in national polls? or is that IPSOS-MORI?

    edit: No, it's ICM.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lib Dems on 8% looks... high.

    That's not too far out of line with what Lord Ashcroft has found. In his constituency polls on average, the Lib Dems are averaging around 6.5% or so (south of the border) in seats where they are not in contention:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/missing-presumed-red-2010-lib-dems.html
    That's not good news for them, is it?
    They need to be losing their deposits in these seats :)
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    B-b-b-b-b-b-b-but the swingback?
    Floater said:
    Bank smears Labour, are we surprised?

    Anyone else wondering if the anti-Ed attacks by the Daily Fail and CCHQ have inoculated the public against it early ?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Pages 11 and 12

    Tories ahead in Labour held marginals of <2%.

    Inference is that it's in London. Glenda?

    Also neck and neck in marginals in SW/Wales.

  • rogerhrogerh Posts: 282
    Notice a bit of weakness in UKIP shares in recent polls.Last months ICM had UKIP and Lib Dems both on 11% .If there is a slip in UKIP share in next weeks Guardian/ICM we could see UKIP back into 4th place.A sign of things to come?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    chestnut said:

    Pages 11 and 12

    Tories ahead in Labour held marginals of

    Can you point me to the pdf ?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    FPT and in response to Antifrank:-

    Re no 1: it is not greed to want to keep your own money.

    Buti I would suggest a 4th reason: The feeling that the government does not spend wisely what it collects. This particularly irks me. For instance, think of the amounts wasted over the years on daft IT projects - billions and billions which could either have been put to better use or not taken from taxpayers in the first place.

    Governments need to address this. Labour, in particular, are wedded to the idea that the amount you spend is a measure of quality, rather than how or what you spend it on. I have zero confidence in their ability to spend wisely and sensibly, while always remembering that it is our money they are spending.

    I don't have much more faith in other parties' ability to spend wisely either
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Freggles said:

    B-b-b-b-b-b-b-but the swingback?


    Floater said:
    Bank smears Labour, are we surprised?

    Anyone else wondering if the anti-Ed attacks by the Daily Fail and CCHQ have inoculated the public against it early ?
    Daily Mail have overcooked it with their vile front page picture.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    edited February 2015
    88% of people saying (must be fibbers) Ed being Crap is not going to effect their vote.

    Oh how we laugh.

    Tory PBers presumably still ploughing in to Dave as PM after GE 2015
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    Floater

    "How long before the smears start?

    I just read an article in the tabloid Indy which said 'Bernie Ecclestone's playboy son-in-law has just paid £50,000 to have dinner with David Cameron"

    I mean what is there not to like?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    edited February 2015

    Dave as next PM

    I'd want very long odds on that ;)
  • Pulpstar said:

    chestnut said:

    Pages 11 and 12

    Tories ahead in Labour held marginals of

    Can you point me to the pdf ?
    Small sample sizes health warnings on all of these sub-samples

    http://comres.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/ITV-News_Marginal-Constituencies-Poll_February-2015.pdf
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    Freggles said:

    B-b-b-b-b-b-b-but the swingback?


    Floater said:
    Bank smears Labour, are we surprised?

    Anyone else wondering if the anti-Ed attacks by the Daily Fail and CCHQ have inoculated the public against it early ?
    There's no smear. They are pointing out the likely policies that Labour's emphasis on predistribution will mean (e.g. a big increase in the minimum wage) and what the consequences might be. Since Ed Milliband himself has said that Hollande has shown a viable alternative then he cannot possibly consider it a smear to be told that his similar policies will lead us to being more like France.

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    88% of people saying (must be fibbers) Ed being Crap is not going to effect their vote.

    Oh how we laugh.

    Tory PBers presumably still ploughing in to Dave as PM after GE 2015

    Do you share the opinion of Ed Being Crap? :p
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Pulpstar said:

    chestnut said:

    Pages 11 and 12

    Tories ahead in Labour held marginals of

    Can you point me to the pdf ?
    http://comres.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/ITV-News_Marginal-Constituencies-Poll_February-2015.pdf
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited February 2015
    Peak Kipper.

    The wheels are finally coming off of UKIP.

    0 seats at the general election is looking like real value.
    Roger said:

    Floater

    "How long before the smears start?

    I just read an article in the tabloid Indy which said 'Bernie Ecclestone's playboy son-in-law has just paid £50,000 to have dinner with David Cameron"

    I mean what is there not to like?

    The Conservative Party - the party of big business. No wonder Dave is desperate to stay in the EU.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    MP_SE said:

    Peak Kipper.

    The wheels are finally coming off of UKIP.

    0 seats at the general election is looking like real value.

    Carswell would surely hold even if UKIP crashed to about 6% nationally.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    Cyclefree

    "Re no 1: it is not greed to want to keep your own money."

    I have a suspicion that's only something fairly rich self employed people feel. Most others just think it's just something you do to be part of society.

    You're not Paul Bloomfield are you? Seriously this is going to be huge!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Danny565 said:

    88% of people saying (must be fibbers) Ed being Crap is not going to effect their vote.

    Oh how we laugh.

    Tory PBers presumably still ploughing in to Dave as PM after GE 2015

    Do you share the opinion of Ed Being Crap? :p
    I do in terms of him being a serious drag on LAB but he knows how to target a weak spot i will give him that.

    I am pretty confident EICIPM on 8/5/15 though (in to 2.36 betfair)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    Pulpstar said:

    chestnut said:

    Pages 11 and 12

    Tories ahead in Labour held marginals of

    Can you point me to the pdf ?
    Small sample sizes health warnings on all of these sub-samples

    http://comres.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/ITV-News_Marginal-Constituencies-Poll_February-2015.pdf
    Conservatives are making gains in London off these subsamples... which doesn't exactly tie with other polls.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Roger said:

    Floater

    "How long before the smears start?

    I just read an article in the tabloid Indy which said 'Bernie Ecclestone's playboy son-in-law has just paid £50,000 to have dinner with David Cameron"

    I mean what is there not to like?

    I wonder if Bernie ever banked that cheque.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    MP_SE: that is a nasty comment about Cameron and his wife.

    It might be worth reminding you that it was the Labour party which sought to spread a really revolting smear about Cameron's wife and child.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    MP_SE said:

    Peak Kipper.

    The wheels are finally coming off of UKIP.

    0 seats at the general election is looking like real value.

    Roger said:

    Floater

    "How long before the smears start?

    I just read an article in the tabloid Indy which said 'Bernie Ecclestone's playboy son-in-law has just paid £50,000 to have dinner with David Cameron"

    I mean what is there not to like?

    The Conservative Party - the party of big business. No wonder Dave is desperate to stay in the EU.
    When Britain's best political bookie has just cut them to 8-11 in Castle Point :D

    LOL...
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Danny565 said:

    MP_SE said:

    Peak Kipper.

    The wheels are finally coming off of UKIP.

    0 seats at the general election is looking like real value.

    Carswell would surely hold even if UKIP crashed to about 6% nationally.
    I think he will poll less than at the by-election but a comfortable win nonetheless. Not suprising as it is their most friendly seat in terms of demographics.

  • A Lib Dem swingback.

    You heard it here first.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Cyclefree said:

    FPT and in response to Antifrank:-

    Re no 1: it is not greed to want to keep your own money.

    Buti I would suggest a 4th reason: The feeling that the government does not spend wisely what it collects. This particularly irks me. For instance, think of the amounts wasted over the years on daft IT projects - billions and billions which could either have been put to better use or not taken from taxpayers in the first place.

    Governments need to address this. Labour, in particular, are wedded to the idea that the amount you spend is a measure of quality, rather than how or what you spend it on. I have zero confidence in their ability to spend wisely and sensibly, while always remembering that it is our money they are spending.

    I don't have much more faith in other parties' ability to spend wisely either

    As someone pointed to with a Guardian article on the previous thread.

    4) It's easy to do, and the deliberately byzantine tax code invites it.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    Watcher

    "I wonder if Bernie ever banked that cheque."

    LOL!
  • Danny565 said:

    MP_SE said:

    Peak Kipper.

    The wheels are finally coming off of UKIP.

    0 seats at the general election is looking like real value.

    Carswell would surely hold even if UKIP crashed to about 6% nationally.
    I suspect that even if UKIP's national poll rating dropped far below what we have been expecting to this point, they have now found a regional base in which they would win seats, comprising the Thames estuary and the fenlands. To use Morris Dancer's terminology, they are cornering the Grumpy Turnip vote.

    I'm not convinced that the number of seats that they win will be much different if they poll 15% nationally or 5% nationally.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    MP_SE said:

    Danny565 said:

    MP_SE said:

    Peak Kipper.

    The wheels are finally coming off of UKIP.

    0 seats at the general election is looking like real value.

    Carswell would surely hold even if UKIP crashed to about 6% nationally.
    I think he will poll less than at the by-election but a comfortable win nonetheless. Not suprising as it is their most friendly seat in terms of demographics.

    TBH - I'm reasonably confident that Carswell would hold Clacton no matter if he was standing as Tory, UKIP or Independant - he appears to be very well regarded there.
  • Poor Byzantium. Basil II wouldn't have tolerated a rubbish tax code.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Cyclefree said:

    MP_SE: that is a nasty comment about Cameron and his wife.

    It might be worth reminding you that it was the Labour party which sought to spread a really revolting smear about Cameron's wife and child.

    I removed the comment but I still feel like there is not a lot he wouldn't do to get large donations. Accepting donations from Russian businessmen looked really bad after all that has happened in Ukraine.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2015
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    "Re no 1: it is not greed to want to keep your own money."

    I have a suspicion that's only something fairly rich self employed people feel. Most others just think it's just something you do to be part of society.

    Yes, all those hearts leaping, as workers open wage slips and note with joy how much tax they've paid every week, and wish they'd handed over more.

    If asked, the majority of people would say they'd like to keep as much of what they earn as possible.
  • ***** Betting Post *****

    Following a series of highly encouraging series of polling figures for Labour over the past 2 - 3 days, my "Bet of the Week" is for theTories to win FEWER than 284.5 seats on offer from bet365 at odds of 10/11 (1.91 decimal). Unless the Blues start to recover very soon they are starting to look like a busted flush.
    As ever, DYOR.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    antifrank said:

    Danny565 said:

    MP_SE said:

    Peak Kipper.

    The wheels are finally coming off of UKIP.

    0 seats at the general election is looking like real value.

    Carswell would surely hold even if UKIP crashed to about 6% nationally.
    I suspect that even if UKIP's national poll rating dropped far below what we have been expecting to this point, they have now found a regional base in which they would win seats, comprising the Thames estuary and the fenlands. To use Morris Dancer's terminology, they are cornering the Grumpy Turnip vote.

    I'm not convinced that the number of seats that they win will be much different if they poll 15% nationally or 5% nationally.
    Yep, surely they'll know which areas to target now (UKIP) and will be working Essex/Kent and Lincolnshire ?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    edited February 2015
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    "Re no 1: it is not greed to want to keep your own money."

    I have a suspicion that's only something fairly rich self employed people feel. Most others just think it's just something you do to be part of society.

    You're not Paul Bloomfield are you? Seriously this is going to be huge!

    Who on earth is Paul Bloomfield?

    I am not rich nor self-employed. I do pay all my tax and probably rather more - in percentage terms - than many people richer than me since I am in the PAYE class. But I feel that it's my money not the government's and if the government is going to take it off me they have an overriding duty to spend it sensibly and wisely, which they don't at present.

    I fully accept that there are matters where it makes sense to make collective provision and that those who have more, relatively, should contribute more.

    What I currently see is that those who have the most do not pay the most and so the burden is borne by (a) those in the middle - like me (though unlike some on here I did not - and do not - complain when child benefit was removed because I could understand why it was done and it seemed absurd to me to give money to those who don't really need it); and (b) those at the bottom who do not get the support and help that they ought to get because too much of the money which is raised and spent is wasted.

    My priorities for my money are (1) my family; (2) the charities I support; and (3) then others. I do not consider those priorities to be evidence of greed. And I resent those who think that people who work hard and want to keep the fruits of their hard work are greedy.

    Labour seems to think that I should feel grateful for being allowed to keep any of my money at all. I don't accept that premise. The state is (or should be) my servant - not my master.

    (Edited): You also make the assumption (common on the Left) of confusing the state with society. They are two different things. And a person does not need to pay tax to be part of society. Otherwise you are saying that all the unemployed, housewives or those earning too little to pay tax are somehow not part of society. A curious view and not one I agree with.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    edited February 2015
    BJO

    "I do in terms of him being a serious drag on LAB but he knows how to target a weak spot i will give him that."

    I think we've all confused dorkishness with uselessness. I only know one person who thought Ed was better than he was getting credit for being. But that person was the only person I know who actually had any direct knowledge of him. I've been very surprised at his political acumen over the last few weeks which has been in stark contrast to Dave's lack of it
  • ***** Betting Post *****

    Following a series of highly encouraging series of polling figures for Labour over the past 2 - 3 days, my "Bet of the Week" is for theTories to win FEWER than 284.5 seats on offer from bet365 at odds of 10/11 (1.91 decimal). Unless the Blues start to recover very soon they are starting to look like a busted flush.
    As ever, DYOR.

    I agree.

    As ever, DYOFR
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Pulpstar said:

    MP_SE said:

    Peak Kipper.

    The wheels are finally coming off of UKIP.

    0 seats at the general election is looking like real value.

    Roger said:

    Floater

    "How long before the smears start?

    I just read an article in the tabloid Indy which said 'Bernie Ecclestone's playboy son-in-law has just paid £50,000 to have dinner with David Cameron"

    I mean what is there not to like?

    The Conservative Party - the party of big business. No wonder Dave is desperate to stay in the EU.
    When Britain's best political bookie has just cut them to 8-11 in Castle Point :D

    LOL...
    Just seen UKIP are now favourite for Castle Point. I am not aware of any polls conducted there. Its an unusual seat as the previously indie controlled council are coming out in support of them. Bob Spink is out suppoting UKIP there as well if I remember correctly.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    ***** Betting Post *****

    Following a series of highly encouraging series of polling figures for Labour over the past 2 - 3 days, my "Bet of the Week" is for theTories to win FEWER than 284.5 seats on offer from bet365 at odds of 10/11 (1.91 decimal). Unless the Blues start to recover very soon they are starting to look like a busted flush.
    As ever, DYOR.

    I agree.

    As ever, DYOFR
    Audrey has some amazing findings though!!
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    antifrank said:

    Danny565 said:

    MP_SE said:

    Peak Kipper.

    The wheels are finally coming off of UKIP.

    0 seats at the general election is looking like real value.

    Carswell would surely hold even if UKIP crashed to about 6% nationally.
    I suspect that even if UKIP's national poll rating dropped far below what we have been expecting to this point, they have now found a regional base in which they would win seats, comprising the Thames estuary and the fenlands. To use Morris Dancer's terminology, they are cornering the Grumpy Turnip vote.

    I'm not convinced that the number of seats that they win will be much different if they poll 15% nationally or 5% nationally.
    Indeed - where it will make a massive difference is the number of 2nd places that they notch up (principally across Northern working class constituencies). If any bookie is feeling brave - spreadbetting the number of 2nd places that UKIP get could be highly profitable. (or suicidally loss-making of course)
  • Mr. Roger, I think you're overrating Miliband. He's thrown a lot of stuff at the Coalition. This has been the only aspect that's even slightly stuck, and that partly due to Fink's mishandling. By the law of averages, it was bound to happen sooner or later.
  • antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lib Dems on 8% looks... high.

    That's not too far out of line with what Lord Ashcroft has found. In his constituency polls on average, the Lib Dems are averaging around 6.5% or so (south of the border) in seats where they are not in contention:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/missing-presumed-red-2010-lib-dems.html
    That's not good news for them, is it?
    It's totally irrelevant. Votes in seats where you are not in contention matter not. Votes where you are mean everything. You've get to get out of this vote shares fetish.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    OMG PFP and PTP both posting at the same time this could be expensive for the PB social fund!!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    edited February 2015
    Cyclefree

    Apart from the last line I agree with most of that.

    You will hear who Paul Bloomfield is ad nauseam over these next few days. He's big news and with good reason. It seems our tax collectors are way beyond pathetic
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    edited February 2015
    MP_SE said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MP_SE: that is a nasty comment about Cameron and his wife.

    It might be worth reminding you that it was the Labour party which sought to spread a really revolting smear about Cameron's wife and child.

    I removed the comment but I still feel like there is not a lot he wouldn't do to get large donations. Accepting donations from Russian businessmen looked really bad after all that has happened in Ukraine.
    What really looked bad to me was the Labour Party auctioning a copy of the Hutton report signed by Cherie Blair to raise money. For God's sake, raising money on the back of a report caused by the suicide of a Government employee. How squalid and lacking in class was that.

  • Mr. Smithson, "You've get to get out of this vote shares fetish"

    Huzzah! A Lib Dem convert from the evils of PR to the virtues of FPTP! :p
  • ***** Betting Post *****

    Following a series of highly encouraging series of polling figures for Labour over the past 2 - 3 days, my "Bet of the Week" is for theTories to win FEWER than 284.5 seats on offer from bet365 at odds of 10/11 (1.91 decimal). Unless the Blues start to recover very soon they are starting to look like a busted flush.
    As ever, DYOR.

    I agree.

    As ever, DYOFR
    Audrey has some amazing findings though!!
    I miss Audrey's amiable ramblings.

    Free the PB One!
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    Most amusing and unsurprising

    http://order-order.com/2015/02/13/owen-jones-is-followed-by-the-one-percent/

    So that'd be about 3000, or the every weekend SWP march attenders brigade.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    edited February 2015
    Rochford and Southend East:

    Local government
    Currently the 31 Council seats held in Rochford and Southend East are 7 Conservative (from Rochford), 10 Independent, 7 Labour, 5 Conservative and 2 UKIP (from Southend).

    UKIP + BNP last time there was 10.8% !

    Big no hoper Labour and Lib Dem votes to squeeze too.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Lennon said:

    antifrank said:

    Danny565 said:

    MP_SE said:

    Peak Kipper.

    The wheels are finally coming off of UKIP.

    0 seats at the general election is looking like real value.

    Carswell would surely hold even if UKIP crashed to about 6% nationally.
    I suspect that even if UKIP's national poll rating dropped far below what we have been expecting to this point, they have now found a regional base in which they would win seats, comprising the Thames estuary and the fenlands. To use Morris Dancer's terminology, they are cornering the Grumpy Turnip vote.

    I'm not convinced that the number of seats that they win will be much different if they poll 15% nationally or 5% nationally.
    Indeed - where it will make a massive difference is the number of 2nd places that they notch up (principally across Northern working class constituencies). If any bookie is feeling brave - spreadbetting the number of 2nd places that UKIP get could be highly profitable. (or suicidally loss-making of course)
    The Economist published an interesting article earlier:

    http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21643151-watch-not-where-ukip-wins-seats-may-where-it-comes-second-beyond-beachheads

    Matthew Goodwin saying they could potentially come second in 50-60 northern Labour seats. It is unfortunate that Tory voters do not vote tactically otherwise Labour could lose some seats in this election and potentially a lot in 2020. Heywood and Middleton being the perfect example. Several thousand Tory votes and all UKIP needed was 600 votes to take a Labour stronghold.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Roger said:

    BJO

    "I do in terms of him being a serious drag on LAB but he knows how to target a weak spot i will give him that."

    I think we've all confused dorkishness with uselessness. I only know one person who thought Ed was better than he was getting credit for being. But that person was the only person I know who actually had any direct knowledge of him. I've been very surprised at his political acumen over the last few weeks which has been in stark contrast to Dave's lack of it

    Maybe. We will know on 8/5/15 either way.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    12% does seem a bit low but I wouldn't have expected too many people to choose it as their primary factor. I wonder if Cameron will regret trying to get out of the debates? The closer we get to the election the more likely he is to need a game-changer. It's all very well thinking that Miliband can only win from the debates because his ratings are so low. But surely having the debates would make the campaign more presidential than it would otherwise be.

    If I was a Tory strategist I'd want it to be as presidential a campaign as possible.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    Apart from the last line I agree with most of that.

    You will hear who Paul Bloomfield is ad nauseam over these next few days. He's big news and with good reason. It seems our tax collectors are way beyond pathetic

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31459067

    HMRC is pretty dysfunctional. A reminder of which politician decided it was a great idea to merge Customs and Excise with the Inland Revenue would be helpful.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,831
    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    "Re no 1: it is not greed to want to keep your own money."

    I have a suspicion that's only something fairly rich self employed people feel. Most others just think it's just something you do to be part of society.

    You're not Paul Bloomfield are you? Seriously this is going to be huge!

    Who on earth is Paul Bloomfield?

    I am not rich nor self-employed. I do pay all my tax and probably rather more - in percentage terms - than many people richer than me since I am in the PAYE class. But I feel that it's my money not the government's and if the government is going to take it off me they have an overriding duty to spend it sensibly and wisely, which they don't at present.

    I fully accept that there are matters where it makes sense to make collective provision and that those who have more, relatively, should contribute more.

    What I currently see is that those who have the most do not pay the most and so the burden is borne by (a) those in the middle - like me (though unlike some on here I did not - and do not - complain when child benefit was removed because I could understand why it was done and it seemed absurd to me to give money to those who don't really need it); and (b) those at the bottom who do not get the support and help that they ought to get because too much of the money which is raised and spent is wasted.

    My priorities for my money are (1) my family; (2) the charities I support; and (3) then others. I do not consider those priorities to be evidence of greed. And I resent those who think that people who work hard and want to keep the fruits of their hard work are greedy.

    Labour seems to think that I should feel grateful for being allowed to keep any of my money at all. I don't accept that premise. The state is (or should be) my servant - not my master.

    (Edited): You also make the assumption (common on the Left) of confusing the state with society. They are two different things. And a person does not need to pay tax to be part of society. Otherwise you are saying that all the unemployed, housewives or those earning too little to pay tax are somehow not part of society. A curious view and not one I agree with.

    You've got my vote, but I actually think the majority feels the way Roger suggests. They think 'their money' is what comes out after HMG has had its way. It's not altruism, its a sort of sheep like resignation. It's the same mentality that means things can get worse and worse and worse and people will put up with it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Lib Dems on 8% looks... high.

    That's not too far out of line with what Lord Ashcroft has found. In his constituency polls on average, the Lib Dems are averaging around 6.5% or so (south of the border) in seats where they are not in contention:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/missing-presumed-red-2010-lib-dems.html
    That's not good news for them, is it?
    It's totally irrelevant. Votes in seats where you are not in contention matter not. Votes where you are mean everything. You've get to get out of this vote shares fetish.

    If the Lib Dems are polling 7% nationally they don't want to be polling 8% in irrelevant seats.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited February 2015
    Cyclefree said:

    MP_SE said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MP_SE: that is a nasty comment about Cameron and his wife.

    It might be worth reminding you that it was the Labour party which sought to spread a really revolting smear about Cameron's wife and child.

    I removed the comment but I still feel like there is not a lot he wouldn't do to get large donations. Accepting donations from Russian businessmen looked really bad after all that has happened in Ukraine.
    What really looked bad to me was the Labour Party auctioning a copy of the Hutton report signed by Cherie Blair to raise money. For God's sake, raising money on the back of a report caused by the suicide of a Government employee. How squalid and lacking in class was that.

    Thank you for reminding me to purchase the book by Norman Baker on David Kelly's death. It is something I have been meaning to read for years.

    It is shocking that so many supposedly intelligent people would have been aware of the signed report being auctioned off and not thought it was at the very least slightly distasteful.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited February 2015
    4.5% swing is in line with the average swing from the last 3 Comres phone polls, and slightly below their online polls.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    "You will hear who Paul Bloomfield is ad nauseam these next few days. He's big news and with good reason. It seems our tax collectors are way beyond pathetic"

    http://hmrcisshite.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/hsbc-taxgate-email-unearthed.html#comment-form.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    maaarsh said:

    Most amusing and unsurprising

    http://order-order.com/2015/02/13/owen-jones-is-followed-by-the-one-percent/

    So that'd be about 3000, or the every weekend SWP march attenders brigade.

    Paul Staines has been caught out there in the comments methinks !
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    MP_SE said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MP_SE said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MP_SE: that is a nasty comment about Cameron and his wife.

    It might be worth reminding you that it was the Labour party which sought to spread a really revolting smear about Cameron's wife and child.

    I removed the comment but I still feel like there is not a lot he wouldn't do to get large donations. Accepting donations from Russian businessmen looked really bad after all that has happened in Ukraine.
    What really looked bad to me was the Labour Party auctioning a copy of the Hutton report signed by Cherie Blair to raise money. For God's sake, raising money on the back of a report caused by the suicide of a Government employee. How squalid and lacking in class was that.

    Thank you for reminding me to purchase the book by Norman Baker on David Kelly's death. It is something I have been meaning to read for years.

    It is shocking that so many supposedly intelligent people would have been aware of the signed report being auctioned off and not thought it was at the very least slightly distasteful.
    It is shocking that no-one in the Labour Party which is always parading its supposedly superior moral conscience realised quite how distasteful it was.

    What on earth did Cherie Blair think she was doing when she signed it? She had nothing to do with the inquiry. Did no-one - even for a moment - think how Dr Kelly's widow and daughters might feel?

  • If you think our politicians ever get into a spot of bother, you might want to read this for a sense of perspective:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/13/argentina-president-formally-charged-alberto-nisman
  • ***** Betting Post *****

    Following a series of highly encouraging series of polling figures for Labour over the past 2 - 3 days, my "Bet of the Week" is for theTories to win FEWER than 284.5 seats on offer from bet365 at odds of 10/11 (1.91 decimal). Unless the Blues start to recover very soon they are starting to look like a busted flush.
    As ever, DYOR.

    I agree.

    As ever, DYOFR
    Audrey has some amazing findings though!!
    I miss Audrey's amiable ramblings.

    Free the PB One!
    I second that, although somehow I doubt Audrey would choose to return even if offered the opportunity. PB.com is poorer and less entertaining without her.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    ***** Betting Post *****

    Following a series of highly encouraging series of polling figures for Labour over the past 2 - 3 days, my "Bet of the Week" is for theTories to win FEWER than 284.5 seats on offer from bet365 at odds of 10/11 (1.91 decimal). Unless the Blues start to recover very soon they are starting to look like a busted flush.
    As ever, DYOR.

    I agree.

    As ever, DYOFR
    Audrey has some amazing findings though!!
    I miss Audrey's amiable ramblings.

    Free the PB One!
    Was audrey warned off, or is she just busy with her algorithms?



  • ***** Betting Post *****

    Following a series of highly encouraging series of polling figures for Labour over the past 2 - 3 days, my "Bet of the Week" is for theTories to win FEWER than 284.5 seats on offer from bet365 at odds of 10/11 (1.91 decimal). Unless the Blues start to recover very soon they are starting to look like a busted flush.
    As ever, DYOR.

    I agree.

    As ever, DYOFR
    Audrey has some amazing findings though!!
    I miss Audrey's amiable ramblings.

    Free the PB One!
    I second that, although somehow I doubt Audrey would choose to return even if offered the opportunity. PB.com is poorer and less entertaining without her.
    I missed it, what happened to her?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    MP_SE said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MP_SE said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MP_SE: that is a nasty comment about Cameron and his wife.

    It might be worth reminding you that it was the Labour party which sought to spread a really revolting smear about Cameron's wife and child.

    I removed the comment but I still feel like there is not a lot he wouldn't do to get large donations. Accepting donations from Russian businessmen looked really bad after all that has happened in Ukraine.
    What really looked bad to me was the Labour Party auctioning a copy of the Hutton report signed by Cherie Blair to raise money. For God's sake, raising money on the back of a report caused by the suicide of a Government employee. How squalid and lacking in class was that.

    Thank you for reminding me to purchase the book by Norman Baker on David Kelly's death. It is something I have been meaning to read for years.

    It is shocking that so many supposedly intelligent people would have been aware of the signed report being auctioned off and not thought it was at the very least slightly distasteful.
    That's revolting.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    antifrank said:

    If you think our politicians ever get into a spot of bother, you might want to read this for a sense of perspective:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/13/argentina-president-formally-charged-alberto-nisman

    Bounce for PM !
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    FWIW... I reckon UKIP will poll 9% and only get Carswell into the HoC.

    On the LibDems, I take their 2010 vote and reduce that total by a quarter if their MP is standing again, a third if they are not.

    On that basis, it is pretty much carnage.

    And if there 12% who remainto be prised away because of Ed - in a tight election that is huge.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    FWIW... I reckon UKIP will poll 9% and only get Carswell into the HoC.

    On the LibDems, I take their 2010 vote and reduce that total by a quarter if their MP is standing again, a third if they are not.

    On that basis, it is pretty much carnage.

    And if there 12% who remainto be prised away because of Ed - in a tight election that is huge.

    You're misreading the 12% figure - alot will be in the Conservative column already and the occasional one or two will think Ed Miliband is a better PM than Dave ;)

    At any rate the "swing voter" proportion of this 12% will be alot less.
  • Ishmael_X said:

    ***** Betting Post *****

    Following a series of highly encouraging series of polling figures for Labour over the past 2 - 3 days, my "Bet of the Week" is for theTories to win FEWER than 284.5 seats on offer from bet365 at odds of 10/11 (1.91 decimal). Unless the Blues start to recover very soon they are starting to look like a busted flush.
    As ever, DYOR.

    I agree.

    As ever, DYOFR
    Audrey has some amazing findings though!!
    I miss Audrey's amiable ramblings.

    Free the PB One!
    Was audrey warned off, or is she just busy with her algorithms?

    I think she peed off OGH once too often.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    Ishmael_X said:

    ***** Betting Post *****

    Following a series of highly encouraging series of polling figures for Labour over the past 2 - 3 days, my "Bet of the Week" is for theTories to win FEWER than 284.5 seats on offer from bet365 at odds of 10/11 (1.91 decimal). Unless the Blues start to recover very soon they are starting to look like a busted flush.
    As ever, DYOR.

    I agree.

    As ever, DYOFR
    Audrey has some amazing findings though!!
    I miss Audrey's amiable ramblings.

    Free the PB One!
    Was audrey warned off, or is she just busy with her algorithms?

    I think she peed off OGH once too often.
    Suggestions that Uncle Vince is going to lose his seat are verboten ;) ?
  • FWIW... I reckon UKIP will poll 9% and only get Carswell into the HoC.

    On the LibDems, I take their 2010 vote and reduce that total by a quarter if their MP is standing again, a third if they are not.

    On that basis, it is pretty much carnage.

    And if there 12% who remainto be prised away because of Ed - in a tight election that is huge.

    MM - slightly confused by that last sentence, please could you explain for the dim ones like me.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    ***** Betting Post *****

    Following a series of highly encouraging series of polling figures for Labour over the past 2 - 3 days, my "Bet of the Week" is for theTories to win FEWER than 284.5 seats on offer from bet365 at odds of 10/11 (1.91 decimal). Unless the Blues start to recover very soon they are starting to look like a busted flush.
    As ever, DYOR.

    I agree.

    As ever, DYOFR
    Audrey has some amazing findings though!!
    I miss Audrey's amiable ramblings.

    Free the PB One!
    Was audrey warned off, or is she just busy with her algorithms?

    I think she peed off OGH once too often.
    Suggestions that Uncle Vince is going to lose his seat are verboten ;) ?
    Verboten und Strafbar.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Pulpstar said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    ***** Betting Post *****

    Following a series of highly encouraging series of polling figures for Labour over the past 2 - 3 days, my "Bet of the Week" is for theTories to win FEWER than 284.5 seats on offer from bet365 at odds of 10/11 (1.91 decimal). Unless the Blues start to recover very soon they are starting to look like a busted flush.
    As ever, DYOR.

    I agree.

    As ever, DYOFR
    Audrey has some amazing findings though!!
    I miss Audrey's amiable ramblings.

    Free the PB One!
    Was audrey warned off, or is she just busy with her algorithms?

    I think she peed off OGH once too often.
    Suggestions that Uncle Vince is going to lose his seat are verboten ;) ?
    Presumably Socrates still banned too

    I thought Sean T was going to get it overturned?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,384
    Looks in-line with other marginals polling.

    What will concern the Con's is that their position doesn't appear to be improving at all.

    EICIPM.
  • Pulpstar said:

    MP_SE said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MP_SE said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MP_SE: that is a nasty comment about Cameron and his wife.

    It might be worth reminding you that it was the Labour party which sought to spread a really revolting smear about Cameron's wife and child.

    I removed the comment but I still feel like there is not a lot he wouldn't do to get large donations. Accepting donations from Russian businessmen looked really bad after all that has happened in Ukraine.
    What really looked bad to me was the Labour Party auctioning a copy of the Hutton report signed by Cherie Blair to raise money. For God's sake, raising money on the back of a report caused by the suicide of a Government employee. How squalid and lacking in class was that.

    Thank you for reminding me to purchase the book by Norman Baker on David Kelly's death. It is something I have been meaning to read for years.

    It is shocking that so many supposedly intelligent people would have been aware of the signed report being auctioned off and not thought it was at the very least slightly distasteful.
    That's revolting.
    I've read it - and very persuasive it is too.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Even with Scotland 17-1 is far too long on a Labour majority.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    I'd love to know what's keeping the Conservative majority price at 6-1 though.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,384
    Pulpstar said:

    I'd love to know what's keeping the Conservative majority price at 6-1 though.

    Wishful drinking...

  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    All we need to do is for Ed to hold this position for another 70 days and he is PM!

    Go Ed!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    These seat models are all going to start heading Labour's way fairly soon if the polls don't start swinging back alot more than they have.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,466
    edited February 2015

    Pulpstar said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    ***** Betting Post *****

    Following a series of highly encouraging series of polling figures for Labour over the past 2 - 3 days, my "Bet of the Week" is for theTories to win FEWER than 284.5 seats on offer from bet365 at odds of 10/11 (1.91 decimal). Unless the Blues start to recover very soon they are starting to look like a busted flush.
    As ever, DYOR.

    I agree.

    As ever, DYOFR
    Audrey has some amazing findings though!!
    I miss Audrey's amiable ramblings.

    Free the PB One!
    Was audrey warned off, or is she just busy with her algorithms?

    I think she peed off OGH once too often.
    Suggestions that Uncle Vince is going to lose his seat are verboten ;) ?
    Presumably Socrates still banned too

    I thought Sean T was going to get it overturned?
    Well, Socco was always chancing his arm, so it's not so easy to campaign for him.

    And SeanT has a number of previous convictions himself, so is perhaps not the best possible barrister for the defendant.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,384
    IOS said:

    All we need to do is for Ed to hold this position for another 70 days and he is PM!

    And then what?

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Jacks ARSE disagrees

    Wonder who will be proved right either myself or JackW
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    edited February 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    These seat models are all going to start heading Labour's way fairly soon if the polls don't start swinging back alot more than they have.

    Not gloating yet but as Kevin Keegan would say

    I would love it if ....!!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Quick counterfactual - If the Conservatives were in the same position Labour are in at the moment wrt the polls (Labour had incumbency etc...) then the odds would be different I'm guessing ?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,384
    edited February 2015

    Jacks ARSE disagrees

    Wonder who will be proved right either myself or JackW

    The ARSE has a good record (as does Rod Crosby) but as each day goes by without the Tories showing any real indication of recovery, it becomes harder to see quite where the votes are coming from to keep Cam in Downing Street.

    Obviously a Conservative majority is out of question (but was always highly unlikely) but at this rate you struggle to see beyond Lab largest party or a tiny Labour majority.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    GIN1138 said:

    IOS said:

    All we need to do is for Ed to hold this position for another 70 days and he is PM!

    And then what?

    Good point at least one year of sticking to Tory spending plans.

    But then what?
This discussion has been closed.