This sort of thing is putting peoples backs up. If the Muslim organisers thought they would be gaining friends and respect, think again. The comments below are livid.
Surely the real story is:
"Millions of British Muslims did not go to protest about Charlie Hebdo, and the numbers claimed by organisers for those who would attend were out by a factor of 15."
It was a peaceful protest apparently, so what's the problem? Though it does mention some bullsh1t excuse that "protesters were separated by gender during the protest 'out of respect for the women'".
You see the pictures in the paper. Count the protesters. That was exactly how many people who went. There are no protesters out of shot.
Are you feeling all right? The pictures show parts of dense crowds which apparently extend beyond the borders of the picture. If this is an illusion the crowds must have been incredibly carefully choreographed to create the illusion. Who arranged that?
I would rather catch EBOLA than have an offer of help from Toxic Tony
Toxic Tony?
Blair's net rating with Ipsos-Mori when he stood down as PM was minus 27
Ed's rating last month was minus 35.
Can you explain how Ed Miliband managed to be even more unpopular than Blair, without lying about invading a foreign country and killing 100,000 natives?
Leicester City Football Club would like to clarify its position relative to its manager, Nigel Pearson.
Contrary to media speculation on Sunday evening, Nigel remains the Club’s First Team Manager. Reports to the contrary are inaccurate and without foundation
JohnLilburne On the whole they all want lower taxes, a smaller state (albeit with Blair a bit more in favour of state spending than Osborne) , public sector reforms, back big business, the single market, support gay marriage and immigration. They may not all want to legalise heroin, but then any party which proposed that would be lucky to get 9% of the vote!
Leicester City Football Club would like to clarify its position relative to its manager, Nigel Pearson.
Contrary to media speculation on Sunday evening, Nigel remains the Club’s First Team Manager. Reports to the contrary are inaccurate and without foundation
Ed Miliband came into conflict with business again on Sunday night as the Labour leader’s plans to extend fathers’ paternity rights was attacked as a “tax on business”.
Labour’s plans to give fathers a month’s paid leave and increase the minimum level of paternity pay was denounced by the British Chamber of Commerce as an attempt to woo voters to the detriment of small and medium-sized businesses.
The IPPR estimates that Labour’s policy will cost £150m a year. Labour said the cost would be more than offset by reduced tax credits for child care on the back of the party’s plans to extend free childcare to three- and four-year-olds to 25 hours a week.
So the policy costs money, but Ed says it will be 'paid' for by reducing child tax credits, and they will do that because, you guessed it, there will be MORE TAXPAYER FUNDED childcare.
The magic money tree needs to have a good harvest this year...
I live in a safe Con seat... Nobody cares about me!
I feel your pain. I only got 1 leaflet from Con last time, 2 from the LDs, 1 from UKIP, and nothing from Labour. I'm hopeful even though it is not a target seat for them I get some more UKIP activity this time, they were pretty active for the Euro elections and I even missed a canvasser from them a few months back! I was shattered to have missed it, given no-one has ever bothered before.
After only living in safe seats and a Labour shitehole, I now live in the key marginal of Sheffield Hallam
AND IT IS BLOODY EXCITING.
My vote finally counts.
Speaking as someone who fell into the trap last time, whatever you do don't vote tactically for the LibDems!
I think I'm going to spoil my ballot and write" "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists, mostly" next to UKIP
And what will you write against the tory candidate. Racist because he supports an immigration policy that favours white europeans? Fruitcake and loon because he supports Camerons idiotic encryption policy?
DNFTT
Maybe I am naive but DFNTT does not translate to me
"Do not feed the trolls"
TSE clearly does not plan to actually do that, he's just trying to get a reaction.
You need a sense of humour.
Don't worry TSE!
I get it, but Zen did sound worked up...
Can you techies come up with a universal symbol for sarcasm on the internet?
I mean if we can send humans to the moon...
"you techies"
Policemen starting to look younger TSE?
I thought you worked in the IT profession, my apologies if you don't.
That said I am going through an age related crisis.
Leicester City Football Club would like to clarify its position relative to its manager, Nigel Pearson.
Contrary to media speculation on Sunday evening, Nigel remains the Club’s First Team Manager. Reports to the contrary are inaccurate and without foundation
I live in a safe Con seat... Nobody cares about me!
I feel your pain. I only got 1 leaflet from Con last time, 2 from the LDs, 1 from UKIP, and nothing from Labour. I'm hopeful even though it is not a target seat for them I get some more UKIP activity this time, they were pretty active for the Euro elections and I even missed a canvasser from them a few months back! I was shattered to have missed it, given no-one has ever bothered before.
Marginals are very different. We're on our third round of canvassing every street since the last election (though obviously not everyone is in each time, and some are mysteriously never in). It does give a good feel for movements in sentiment - you can feel tides moving in and out. In my experience, around 75% nearly always say the same thing (give or take priods of don't knowing) over a 20-year period, but 25% are genuinely more fluid, and occasionally you get an abrupt switch when someone who was always X suddenly hates X because of one issue, often something quite apparently inconsequential like a supermarket getting planning permission or a councillor not answering a letter.
Has there been an Ashcroft poll of Broxtowe yet? it would be interesting to see the "voter contact" percentages for the different parties.
Leicester City Football Club would like to clarify its position relative to its manager, Nigel Pearson.
Contrary to media speculation on Sunday evening, Nigel remains the Club’s First Team Manager. Reports to the contrary are inaccurate and without foundation
A 2008 newsnight poll of 27,000 people had the best postwar PMs had Churchill and Attlee and Thatcher as the top 3 and Home, Eden and Brown as the worst
But honestly, Labour have "learnt lessons" and this time it will be different.
If the Tories have any sense of strategy they will keep Rotherham and the PC gone mad stuff in the headlines right up until the GE, but they won't for two reasons:
1. They are too stupid. 2. They are complicit.
I suppose it would benefit UKIP more than the Tories, but if UKIP nicked a few seats from Labour then surely it would be to the Tories advantage.
I live in a safe Con seat... Nobody cares about me!
I feel your pain. I only got 1 leaflet from Con last time, 2 from the LDs, 1 from UKIP, and nothing from Labour. I'm hopeful even though it is not a target seat for them I get some more UKIP activity this time, they were pretty active for the Euro elections and I even missed a canvasser from them a few months back! I was shattered to have missed it, given no-one has ever bothered before.
Marginals are very different. We're on our third round of canvassing every street since the last election (though obviously not everyone is in each time, and some are mysteriously never in). It does give a good feel for movements in sentiment - you can feel tides moving in and out. In my experience, around 75% nearly always say the same thing (give or take priods of don't knowing) over a 20-year period, but 25% are genuinely more fluid, and occasionally you get an abrupt switch when someone who was always X suddenly hates X because of one issue, often something quite apparently inconsequential like a supermarket getting planning permission or a councillor not answering a letter.
Has there been an Ashcroft poll of Broxtowe yet? it would be interesting to see the "voter contact" percentages for the different parties.
I doubt Ed could have had a worse day. Why on earth would Tony Blair offer anything to Labour? Blair in the background would like having 90 days of your mother in law staying with you.
BBC Breaking News @BBCBreaking 49s50 seconds ago Australian Liberal MPs vote against removing Tony Abbott as leader and prime minister. http://bbc.in/1C7Wfsc
I live in a safe Con seat... Nobody cares about me!
I feel your pain. I only got 1 leaflet from Con last time, 2 from the LDs, 1 from UKIP, and nothing from Labour. I'm hopeful even though it is not a target seat for them I get some more UKIP activity this time, they were pretty active for the Euro elections and I even missed a canvasser from them a few months back! I was shattered to have missed it, given no-one has ever bothered before.
Marginals are very different. We're on our third round of canvassing every street since the last election (though obviously not everyone is in each time, and some are mysteriously never in). It does give a good feel for movements in sentiment - you can feel tides moving in and out. In my experience, around 75% nearly always say the same thing (give or take priods of don't knowing) over a 20-year period, but 25% are genuinely more fluid, and occasionally you get an abrupt switch when someone who was always X suddenly hates X because of one issue, often something quite apparently inconsequential like a supermarket getting planning permission or a councillor not answering a letter.
Has there been an Ashcroft poll of Broxtowe yet? it would be interesting to see the "voter contact" percentages for the different parties.
We haven't even had a Palmer poll update(at least I haven't seen one), last time it was 7% ahead.
A 2008 newsnight poll of 27,000 people had the best postwar PMs had Churchill and Attlee and Thatcher as the top 3 and Home, Eden and Brown as the worst
I doubt Ed could have had a worse day. Why on earth would Tony Blair offer anything to Labour? Blair in the background would like having 90 days of your mother in law staying with you.
But every day seems to be a 'worse' day for Miliband, with just a gentle slip in the polls month on month to show for it. Perhaps it will turn out like Black Wednesday when the slide didn''t take place until later. British politics is a bit like a large super tanker. It takes time for it to turn, but once it does it's bloody hard to bring it back. From a betting point of view that makes things more tricky. Ideally you need to be aware of the move before a signal has even passed to the rudder.
Leicester City Football Club would like to clarify its position relative to its manager, Nigel Pearson.
Contrary to media speculation on Sunday evening, Nigel remains the Club’s First Team Manager. Reports to the contrary are inaccurate and without foundation
I am happy for the news. There was certainly a very mixed reaction on the LCFC message boards (where my Foxinsox handle comes from).
LCFC is always a soap opera, and Nigel a great but mardeh manager. I think the team are behind him and most of the fans. The alternatives suggested have all been dire apart from MON (pbuh).
I posted exactly this hours ago. I guess it needs Andrew Neil name to make PBers take notice.
The delightful MacShane, too busy producing bogus invoices to notice 1,400 children being raped on his patch. Vote Labour, get scum like MacShane
Yes a man distracted by his love for the EC.
Ummm: if McShane had been - say - a big tennis fan, would you be posting about how distracted he was by his love of tennis? Rotherham was a failure of political correctness, a failure of the Labour council, a failure of good people to speak up, a failure of elected representatives to listen. This is one of the few things that was truly not a failure of the EU/EC.
1. MacShane required extra money to fund his european wanderings. He got that from the expense frauds that he was convicted of. 2. MacShane clearly focused his main attention on the EC when in Parliament or away visiting europe. He would gladly write articles against eurosceptics or speak up in any debate on that subject. Or even fly off on european meetings even after he was not the Europe Minister. So whilst engaged in all these things he was distracted by the EC and overlooked the cesspit of abuse going on in his constituency.
I'm sorry, that is a ridiculous stretch.
If he'd been defence minister, would you have blamed the army?
In any case, Rotherham was a failure on so many levels. It wasn't just the result (however pathetic be was ) of one mp being distracted.
Sorry that you cannot see the link. Using your analogy. If MacShane was spending his time on the army and visiting army bases when he was not a minister in the MOD, and raising money through fraudulent expense claims that was spent on "research" for the military articles he was writing whilst not noticing the cesspit of abuse for many of Rotherham's children... then yes I would say that his love for the military affected his judgement. We all get distracted. Some of us by this website!
BBC Breaking News @BBCBreaking 49s50 seconds ago Australian Liberal MPs vote against removing Tony Abbott as leader and prime minister. http://bbc.in/1C7Wfsc
Didn't Abbott recently win an election for the Liberals?
BBC Breaking News @BBCBreaking 49s50 seconds ago Australian Liberal MPs vote against removing Tony Abbott as leader and prime minister. http://bbc.in/1C7Wfsc
Didn't Abbott recently win an election for the Liberals?
That was 2 years ago and his party is 14% behind in the polls.
Sunil He did, but the end of the mining boom, knighthoods for Prince Philip etc saw Labor win the Queensland state election last weekend on a huge swing and a newspoll today has Labor ahead 57-43. If the polls don't improve then, like Gillard, his own party will eventually oust him, Speedy is spot on!
I doubt Ed could have had a worse day. Why on earth would Tony Blair offer anything to Labour? Blair in the background would like having 90 days of your mother in law staying with you.
But every day seems to be a 'worse' day for Miliband, with just a gentle slip in the polls month on month to show for it. Perhaps it will turn out like Black Wednesday when the slide didn''t take place until later. British politics is a bit like a large super tanker. It takes time for it to turn, but once it does it's bloody hard to bring it back. From a betting point of view that makes things more tricky. Ideally you need to be aware of the move before a signal has even passed to the rudder.
I am sure that's true. The Tories on here are waiting for that tipping point. Not sure that the electorate has woken up to the fact that there is an election. Frankly I think the tipping point has passed, the moment we started to see a few tory leads in the polls. If the Tories aren't in the lead regularly and v soon we are faced with the possibility of Ed as PM. That's like having your mother in law living with you ......... forever
I doubt Ed could have had a worse day. Why on earth would Tony Blair offer anything to Labour? Blair in the background would like having 90 days of your mother in law staying with you.
But every day seems to be a 'worse' day for Miliband, with just a gentle slip in the polls month on month to show for it. Perhaps it will turn out like Black Wednesday when the slide didn''t take place until later. British politics is a bit like a large super tanker. It takes time for it to turn, but once it does it's bloody hard to bring it back. From a betting point of view that makes things more tricky. Ideally you need to be aware of the move before a signal has even passed to the rudder.
I posted about 6 months that I thought this election might be decided by the "hovering pencils" on the day.
People get to the polling station and suddenly think "do I really want to see that guy on the telly for the next 5 years"...
I live in a safe Con seat... Nobody cares about me!
I feel your pain. I only got 1 leaflet from Con last time, 2 from the LDs, 1 from UKIP, and nothing from Labour. I'm hopeful even though it is not a target seat for them I get some more UKIP activity this time, they were pretty active for the Euro elections and I even missed a canvasser from them a few months back! I was shattered to have missed it, given no-one has ever bothered before.
Marginals are very different. We're on our third round of canvassing every street since the last election (though obviously not everyone is in each time, and some are mysteriously never in). It does give a good feel for movements in sentiment - you can feel tides moving in and out. In my experience, around 75% nearly always say the same thing (give or take priods of don't knowing) over a 20-year period, but 25% are genuinely more fluid, and occasionally you get an abrupt switch when someone who was always X suddenly hates X because of one issue, often something quite apparently inconsequential like a supermarket getting planning permission or a councillor not answering a letter.
Has there been an Ashcroft poll of Broxtowe yet? it would be interesting to see the "voter contact" percentages for the different parties.
I live in a safe Con seat... Nobody cares about me!
I feel your pain. I only got 1 leaflet from Con last time, 2 from the LDs, 1 from UKIP, and nothing from Labour. I'm hopeful even though it is not a target seat for them I get some more UKIP activity this time, they were pretty active for the Euro elections and I even missed a canvasser from them a few months back! I was shattered to have missed it, given no-one has ever bothered before.
After only living in safe seats and a Labour shitehole, I now live in the key marginal of Sheffield Hallam
AND IT IS BLOODY EXCITING.
My vote finally counts.
Speaking as someone who fell into the trap last time, whatever you do don't vote tactically for the LibDems!
I think I'm going to spoil my ballot and write" "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists, mostly" next to UKIP
I thought you were going to vote Tory if I vote Tory in Ilford North!
I will.
I could topple Nick Clegg though.
As Uncle Ben said, "with great power, comes great responsibility"
And help Labour win the seat
I know, I know.
I'm proud of growing up and living in a seat that has never elected a Labour MP
You voted to keep a labour police commissioner in rotherham didn't you?
@Speedy Top story on the Beeb and it seems to be being serialized in the Guardian to co-inside with the Panorama programme.
Given that this is a re-hash of a 2012 story, that tells you a lot about the BBC.
They are doing their very best to help Labour. For the last five years they've been running scare stories about The Cuts. That didn't have much impact, so this winter they've been desperately trying to find disaster stories about the NHS. A few days ago they invented a nice little story about care for the elderly, based on an assumption which even the arts graduates who dominate the place must have realised was absolutely ludicrous, namely that every 65-year old needs care. Tonight's story ("in collaboration with the Guardian" - well, well, what a surprise) is a classic of BBC bias, somehow managing to mention the Lord Green is a Conservative peer, the kind of detail they are adept at omitting to mention in relation to Labour.
Hah, if that happens, even with a Green surge of epic proportions, Labour would have to be doing worse than even the most pessimistic of projections I would guess. Frankly I'm surprised even thousands of jobs being lost there in the run up to 2010 was enough to get people angry enough to vote against Labour, given they vote Labour as naturally as breathing up there.
Council ructions as well we've seen reported recently IIRC.
@Speedy Top story on the Beeb and it seems to be being serialized in the Guardian to co-inside with the Panorama programme.
Given that this is a re-hash of a 2012 story, that tells you a lot about the BBC.
They are doing their very best to help Labour. For the last five years they've been running scare stories about The Cuts. That didn't have much impact, so this winter they've been desperately trying to find disaster stories about the NHS. A few days ago they invented a nice little story about care for the elderly, based on an assumption which even the arts graduates who dominate the place must have realised was absolutely ludicrous, namely that every 65-year old needs care. Tonight's story ("in collaboration with the Guardian" - well, well, what a surprise) is a classic of BBC bias, somehow managing to mention the Lord Green is a Conservative peer, the kind of detail they are adept at omitting to mention in relation to Labour.
I bet we hear a hell of a lot more about "TORY LORD GREEN" over the next 2-3 days (and the BBC will do their classic spin it out and out and out and out and out), than Labour run Rotherham council or Labour run Welsh NHS....just saying like.
Hah, if that happens, even with a Green surge of epic proportions, Labour would have to be doing worse than even the most pessimistic of projections I would guess. Frankly I'm surprised even thousands of jobs being lost there in the run up to 2010 was enough to get people angry enough to vote against Labour, given they vote Labour as naturally as breathing up there.
Council ructions as well we've seen reported recently IIRC.
Wasn't 2010 also down to Vera Baird being a voter repellent par excellence?
@Speedy Top story on the Beeb and it seems to be being serialized in the Guardian to co-inside with the Panorama programme.
Given that this is a re-hash of a 2012 story, that tells you a lot about the BBC.
They are doing their very best to help Labour. For the last five years they've been running scare stories about The Cuts. That didn't have much impact, so this winter they've been desperately trying to find disaster stories about the NHS. A few days ago they invented a nice little story about care for the elderly, based on an assumption which even the arts graduates who dominate the place must have realised was absolutely ludicrous, namely that every 65-year old needs care. Tonight's story ("in collaboration with the Guardian" - well, well, what a surprise) is a classic of BBC bias, somehow managing to mention the Lord Green is a Conservative peer, the kind of detail they are adept at omitting to mention in relation to Labour.
Shout the bias from the roof tops then,but like usual the tory part will keep stum.
Very convenient that Ed was banging on about this stuff over the weekend. At the time, people thought that is a bit out of the blue.
Another interesting point...this story is a rehash and the tax authorities have had this info for 5 years and it comes from stolen info. Now when the Currant Bun gets stolen info from dodgy officials...well thats a different kettle of fish.
@Speedy Top story on the Beeb and it seems to be being serialized in the Guardian to co-inside with the Panorama programme.
Given that this is a re-hash of a 2012 story, that tells you a lot about the BBC.
They are doing their very best to help Labour. For the last five years they've been running scare stories about The Cuts. That didn't have much impact, so this winter they've been desperately trying to find disaster stories about the NHS. A few days ago they invented a nice little story about care for the elderly, based on an assumption which even the arts graduates who dominate the place must have realised was absolutely ludicrous, namely that every 65-year old needs care. Tonight's story ("in collaboration with the Guardian" - well, well, what a surprise) is a classic of BBC bias, somehow managing to mention the Lord Green is a Conservative peer, the kind of detail they are adept at omitting to mention in relation to Labour.
Not buying it. It's one thing to suggest they are not doing enough to maintain bias, but framing it as in essence a deliberate conspiracy and operation as open as a political campaign takes it a step too far for me.
That said, I do recall seeing this story play out a few years ago, and I cannot see in the story why it is a big deal again, what really new information there is
I don't really see how it helps Labour much though even with the reference to a Tory Peer (which since he was in government until 2013 is hardly irrelevant) as these messes happen under their watch too and everyone knows it.
Hah, if that happens, even with a Green surge of epic proportions, Labour would have to be doing worse than even the most pessimistic of projections I would guess. Frankly I'm surprised even thousands of jobs being lost there in the run up to 2010 was enough to get people angry enough to vote against Labour, given they vote Labour as naturally as breathing up there.
Council ructions as well we've seen reported recently IIRC.
Wasn't 2010 also down to Vera Baird being a voter repellent par excellence?
I couldn't say - I have family in the seat and the only thing ever mentioned to me was how pissed everyone was about the closure of the Steelworks, but it isn't hard to think that a good candidate could still have salvaged the seat for Labour given how strong the territory is for them, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was a significant factor.
Has there been an Ashcroft poll of Broxtowe yet? it would be interesting to see the "voter contact" percentages for the different parties.
You raise an interesting point.
From last July's Ashcroft Broxtowe poll:
Q.8 I would like to ask whether any of the main political parties have contacted you over the last few weeks - whether by delivering leaflets ornewspapers, sending personally addressed letters, emailing, telephoning you at home or knocking on your door. Have you heard in any of these ways from...?
Hah, if that happens, even with a Green surge of epic proportions, Labour would have to be doing worse than even the most pessimistic of projections I would guess. Frankly I'm surprised even thousands of jobs being lost there in the run up to 2010 was enough to get people angry enough to vote against Labour, given they vote Labour as naturally as breathing up there.
Council ructions as well we've seen reported recently IIRC.
Wasn't 2010 also down to Vera Baird being a voter repellent par excellence?
I couldn't say - I have family in the seat and the only thing ever mentioned to me was how pissed everyone was about the closure of the Steelworks, but it isn't hard to think that a good candidate could still have salvaged the seat for Labour given how strong the territory is for them, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was a significant factor.
Looking at it, she saw a drop of nearly 19% in her vote and a near 22% swing overall
UKIP 11/4 in Rotherham, would love to see it but probably too skinny to warrant a bet
Prob value in my book, I reckon its about 7/4
best bet would be to back ukip to win a seat off labour at 11/8 and you get rother valley, Grimsby, Dudley North, Walsall North, Telford and 240 odd others thrown in
Given ukip are 13/8 in Grimsby it has to be a great bet, prob should be odds on
@Speedy Top story on the Beeb and it seems to be being serialized in the Guardian to co-inside with the Panorama programme.
Given that this is a re-hash of a 2012 story, that tells you a lot about the BBC.
They are doing their very best to help Labour. For the last five years they've been running scare stories about The Cuts. That didn't have much impact, so this winter they've been desperately trying to find disaster stories about the NHS. A few days ago they invented a nice little story about care for the elderly, based on an assumption which even the arts graduates who dominate the place must have realised was absolutely ludicrous, namely that every 65-year old needs care. Tonight's story ("in collaboration with the Guardian" - well, well, what a surprise) is a classic of BBC bias, somehow managing to mention the Lord Green is a Conservative peer, the kind of detail they are adept at omitting to mention in relation to Labour.
Not buying it. It's one thing to suggest they are not doing enough to maintain bias, but framing it as in essence a deliberate conspiracy and operation as open as a political campaign takes it a step too far for me.
That said, I do recall seeing this story play out a few years ago, and I cannot see in the story why it is a big deal again, what really new information there is
I don't really see how it helps Labour much though even with the reference to a Tory Peer (which since he was in government until 2013 is hardly irrelevant) as these messes happen under their watch too and everyone knows it.
@kle4 It appears they have sorted out the fragments and intend to make some of the names public.
Oh, ok. Eh, I think the Tories'll be fine from this one then, people already expect rotten things from places like HSBC, and how many people will get to the guts of the story enough to see the Tory Peer connection unless they already hate the Tories?
I wonder if people who defended the BBC about anti-Nat bias might end up including many of the same who will drone on about anti-Tory bias for months (not that it ever goes away, the fact of its left leaningness will ensure that) - even if those positions are not mutually exclusive, it will surely provide some entertaining pivots on positions.
Not buying it. It's one thing to suggest they are not doing enough to maintain bias, but framing it as in essence a deliberate conspiracy and operation as open as a political campaign takes it a step too far for me.
When did they last run an 'investigation' in collaboration with, say, the Telegraph?
Very convenient that Ed was banging on about this stuff over the weekend. At the time, people thought that is a bit out of the blue.
Another interesting point...this story is a rehash and the tax authorities have had this info for 5 years and it comes from stolen info. Now when the Currant Bun gets stolen info from dodgy officials...well thats a different kettle of fish.
Late last year Ed told BBC executives that he would "weaponise" the NHS. The Beeb have been pushing NHS problems since (not so much the big problems in Labour's Wales). And CCHQ tells the story of a recent Beeb interview where the presenter wondered whether poor care has resulted from fewer nurses due to coalition cuts, whereas nurse employment has increased by thousands since 2010. The Beeb are grinding their lefty axe.
@Speedy Top story on the Beeb and it seems to be being serialized in the Guardian to co-inside with the Panorama programme.
Given that this is a re-hash of a 2012 story, that tells you a lot about the BBC.
They are doing their very best to help Labour. For the last five years they've been running scare stories about The Cuts. That didn't have much impact, so this winter they've been desperately trying to find disaster stories about the NHS. A few days ago they invented a nice little story about care for the elderly, based on an assumption which even the arts graduates who dominate the place must have realised was absolutely ludicrous, namely that every 65-year old needs care. Tonight's story ("in collaboration with the Guardian" - well, well, what a surprise) is a classic of BBC bias, somehow managing to mention the Lord Green is a Conservative peer, the kind of detail they are adept at omitting to mention in relation to Labour.
Not buying it. It's one thing to suggest they are not doing enough to maintain bias, but framing it as in essence a deliberate conspiracy and operation as open as a political campaign takes it a step too far for me.
That said, I do recall seeing this story play out a few years ago, and I cannot see in the story why it is a big deal again, what really new information there is
I don't really see how it helps Labour much though even with the reference to a Tory Peer (which since he was in government until 2013 is hardly irrelevant) as these messes happen under their watch too and everyone knows it.
How to contradict yourself in one easy lesson.
I prefer to think of it as a measured, but swayable opinion - Tory whinges about a corrupt, openly hostile BBC are exaggerated, well, whinges, but no-one would deny there is not a lefty leaning aspect to them, it's a question of how well they can manage to attempt a neutral position, or if they are. The conspiracy theorists don't seem to believe the BBC make any attempt, and every single word phrasing they don't like is evidence of that and why the licence fee is nonsense...but that does not mean they are always wrong.
In short, the hyperbole was a bit much for me is all, but that doesn't mean the story might not be a bit biased, I was still weighing up my opinion on that, but it certainly isn't as drastic as the initial nonsense claims of open attacks on a party.
@kle4 It appears they have sorted out the fragments and intend to make some of the names public.
Oh, ok. Eh, I think the Tories'll be fine from this one then, people already expect rotten things from places like HSBC, and how many people will get to the guts of the story enough to see the Tory Peer connection unless they already hate the Tories?
I don't think it's so much that people would associate it with the Tories, it's more that it gives Ed (theoretically) a chance to push this issue to the top of the agenda and say he's the only one who's prepared to deal with it. "Look at all these rich people clubbing together and trying to get out of their responsibilities to pay their taxes to society, at a time when everyone else is being punished and having their living standards cut, it's just another example of why the 'vested interests' need to be taken on"
Of course, whether he has either the guts to try it or the ability to do it persuasively iis another matter.
Not buying it. It's one thing to suggest they are not doing enough to maintain bias, but framing it as in essence a deliberate conspiracy and operation as open as a political campaign takes it a step too far for me.
When did they last run an 'investigation' in collaboration with, say, the Telegraph?
I have no idea, you can let me know. As I have attempted to explain, it is the hyperbole I have a problem with, and the ridiculous seizing of any minor thing to justify a preset position, not the idea that the BBC does despite its efforts at neutrality have a lefty bias.
The difference is I think they do make an effort, with varying results. I also know that it will be claimed there is the smoke of BBC bias even when there is no fire.
One of my favourite of what I like to think of as an example was a headline from the front page years ago about Osborne wielding the 'spending cuts ax', which a few minutes later was changed to something less, shall we say, politically charged. I could almost see a more senior editor whispering in the person who wrote it's ear to tone it down a notch.
I posted exactly this hours ago. I guess it needs Andrew Neil name to make PBers take notice.
The delightful MacShane, too busy producing bogus invoices to notice 1,400 children being raped on his patch. Vote Labour, get scum like MacShane
Yes a man distracted by his love for the EC.
I hope MacShane was never distracted by posting on pb.com - when he should have been investigating the industrial-scale rape of the kids of his constituents....
@Speedy Top story on the Beeb and it seems to be being serialized in the Guardian to co-inside with the Panorama programme.
Given that this is a re-hash of a 2012 story, that tells you a lot about the BBC.
They are doing their very best to help Labour. For the last five years they've been running scare stories about The Cuts. That didn't have much impact, so this winter they've been desperately trying to find disaster stories about the NHS. A few days ago they invented a nice little story about care for the elderly, based on an assumption which even the arts graduates who dominate the place must have realised was absolutely ludicrous, namely that every 65-year old needs care. Tonight's story ("in collaboration with the Guardian" - well, well, what a surprise) is a classic of BBC bias, somehow managing to mention the Lord Green is a Conservative peer, the kind of detail they are adept at omitting to mention in relation to Labour.
Not buying it. It's one thing to suggest they are not doing enough to maintain bias, but framing it as in essence a deliberate conspiracy and operation as open as a political campaign takes it a step too far for me.
That said, I do recall seeing this story play out a few years ago, and I cannot see in the story why it is a big deal again, what really new information there is
I don't really see how it helps Labour much though even with the reference to a Tory Peer (which since he was in government until 2013 is hardly irrelevant) as these messes happen under their watch too and everyone knows it.
How to contradict yourself in one easy lesson.
I prefer to think of it as a measured, but swayable opinion - Tory whinges about a corrupt, openly hostile BBC are exaggerated, well, whinges, but no-one would deny there is not a lefty leaning aspect to them, it's a question of how well they can manage to attempt a neutral position, or if they are. The conspiracy theorists don't seem to believe the BBC make any attempt, and every single word phrasing they don't like is evidence of that and why the licence fee is nonsense...but that does not mean they are always wrong.
In short, the hyperbole was a bit much for me is all, but that doesn't mean the story might not be a bit biased, I was still weighing up my opinion on that, but it certainly isn't as drastic as the initial nonsense claims of open attacks on a party.
@kle4 It appears they have sorted out the fragments and intend to make some of the names public.
Oh, ok. Eh, I think the Tories'll be fine from this one then, people already expect rotten things from places like HSBC, and how many people will get to the guts of the story enough to see the Tory Peer connection unless they already hate the Tories?
I don't think it's so much that people would associate it with the Tories, it's more that it gives Ed (theoretically) a chance to push this issue to the top of the agenda and say he's the only one who's prepared to deal with it. "Look at all these rich people clubbing together and trying to get out of their responsibilities to pay their taxes to society, at a time when everyone else is being punished and having their living standards cut, it's just another example of why the 'vested interests' need to be taken on"
Of course, whether he has either the guts to try it or the ability to do it persuasively iis another matter.
Could help with the narrative a little I suppose, but to hear the dark whispers of conspiracy on here you'd think Ed had just been handed the election on a plate thanks to his pals in the media. Ed's talked about the same topic before no doubt, even with the story more prominent again I think he will struggle to wring any more from it - he says he's the only one prepared to deal with everything, so whatever drives the news next week will have a similar response from him.
Tories love a bit of tax avoidance though don't they
So do Ed and David, and if Ed carries on with this it won't be long before his families tax affairs hit the headlines.
How much tax has Ed avoided?
Tories easy target on this because they love a bit of tax avoidance
You are criticising people for following, to the letter, legislation large parts of which were either drafted by or allowed to remain on the statute books by the Labour party for 13 years? Really, that's your argument?
@Speedy Top story on the Beeb and it seems to be being serialized in the Guardian to co-inside with the Panorama programme.
Given that this is a re-hash of a 2012 story, that tells you a lot about the BBC.
They are doing their very best to help Labour. For the last five years they've been running scare stories about The Cuts. That didn't have much impact, so this winter they've been desperately trying to find disaster stories about the NHS. A few days ago they invented a nice little story about care for the elderly, based on an assumption which even the arts graduates who dominate the place must have realised was absolutely ludicrous, namely that every 65-year old needs care. Tonight's story ("in collaboration with the Guardian" - well, well, what a surprise) is a classic of BBC bias, somehow managing to mention the Lord Green is a Conservative peer, the kind of detail they are adept at omitting to mention in relation to Labour.
Not buying it. It's one thing to suggest they are not doing enough to maintain bias, but framing it as in essence a deliberate conspiracy and operation as open as a political campaign takes it a step too far for me.
That said, I do recall seeing this story play out a few years ago, and I cannot see in the story why it is a big deal again, what really new information there is
I don't really see how it helps Labour much though even with the reference to a Tory Peer (which since he was in government until 2013 is hardly irrelevant) as these messes happen under their watch too and everyone knows it.
How to contradict yourself in one easy lesson.
I prefer to think of it as a measured, but swayable opinion - Tory whinges about a corrupt, openly hostile BBC are exaggerated, well, whinges, but no-one would deny there is not a lefty leaning aspect to them, it's a question of how well they can manage to attempt a neutral position, or if they are. The conspiracy theorists don't seem to believe the BBC make any attempt, and every single word phrasing they don't like is evidence of that and why the licence fee is nonsense...but that does not mean they are always wrong.
In short, the hyperbole was a bit much for me is all, but that doesn't mean the story might not be a bit biased, I was still weighing up my opinion on that, but it certainly isn't as drastic as the initial nonsense claims of open attacks on a party.
Surely to end that sort of thing they'd all need to move to another country with a less volatile political culture - not sure that's a viable option for a sitting PM.
@kle4 It appears they have sorted out the fragments and intend to make some of the names public.
Oh, ok. Eh, I think the Tories'll be fine from this one then, people already expect rotten things from places like HSBC, and how many people will get to the guts of the story enough to see the Tory Peer connection unless they already hate the Tories?
I wonder if people who defended the BBC about anti-Nat bias might end up including many of the same who will drone on about anti-Tory bias for months (not that it ever goes away, the fact of its left leaningness will ensure that) - even if those positions are not mutually exclusive, it will surely provide some entertaining pivots on positions.
Mr Nabavi is right. The BBC in fact went out of its way to help its 'talent' pay less tax and itself to pay less NI (but not complain about welfare cuts). This govt is going out of its way to fight aggressive tax avoidance. The left know how to play dirty.
Q.8 I would like to ask whether any of the main political parties have contacted you over the last few weeks - whether by delivering leaflets ornewspapers, sending personally addressed letters, emailing, telephoning you at home or knocking on your door. Have you heard in any of these ways from...?
So perhaps Nick is kidding himself about the superiority of the Labour ground game (or perhaps voters don't actually notice either way).
Not really - as I've said before, the Tories dominate the air war with direct mail (by a 3-1 margin), and we balance it with the ground war. The problem about an air war, though, is that you don't get much data back, so when you come to do GOTV you're short of reliable info on who is still supporting you.
None of this matters if there's a huge swing one way or the other. But in marginals it does.
Tories love a bit of tax avoidance though don't they
So do Ed and David, and if Ed carries on with this it won't be long before his families tax affairs hit the headlines.
Tories easy target on this because they love a bit of tax avoidance
Who doesn't? Everyone loves bashing them, but no government seems to stamp it out, so either they are unable to tighten up the rules to prevent it, or they are unwilling, or both. Applies to anyone in government as far as I can see it, regardless of rosette, if they are unwilling. And if they cannot prevent clever work arounds, not much point getting angry at any one party for that.
Arguments about which ones are slightly worse are the only option I guess, but pretty unenthusing, that.
@kle4 It appears they have sorted out the fragments and intend to make some of the names public.
Oh, ok. Eh, I think the Tories'll be fine from this one then, people already expect rotten things from places like HSBC, and how many people will get to the guts of the story enough to see the Tory Peer connection unless they already hate the Tories?
I wonder if people who defended the BBC about anti-Nat bias might end up including many of the same who will drone on about anti-Tory bias for months (not that it ever goes away, the fact of its left leaningness will ensure that) - even if those positions are not mutually exclusive, it will surely provide some entertaining pivots on positions.
Mr Nabavi is right. The BBC in fact went out of its way to help its 'talent' pay less tax and itself to pay less NI (but not complain about welfare cuts). This govt is going out of its way to fight aggressive tax avoidance. The left know how to play dirty.
The Guardian Media Group are based in the Cayman Islands and use hedge funds to stay alive. Should be fun when this becomes public. One reason I absolutely detest Labour is the appalling hypocrisy.
Not really - as I've said before, the Tories dominate the air war with direct mail (by a 3-1 margin), and we balance it with the ground war. The problem about an air war, though, is that you don't get much data back, so when you come to do GOTV you're short of reliable info on who is still supporting you.
You get data back from telephone canvassing, though.
Tories love a bit of tax avoidance though don't they
So do Ed and David, and if Ed carries on with this it won't be long before his families tax affairs hit the headlines.
How much tax has Ed avoided?
Tories easy target on this because they love a bit of tax avoidance
So do your lot, see Margaret Hodge/Stemcor
Perhaps the Tories are seen as slightly worse
What do you think?
Peerage for the tax avoider in chief
I think anyone who,pays a penny more in tax than they need to is an idiot. However running a campaign aimed at people doing the same as you is stupid in the extreme.
@kle4 It appears they have sorted out the fragments and intend to make some of the names public.
Oh, ok. Eh, I think the Tories'll be fine from this one then, people already expect rotten things from places like HSBC, and how many people will get to the guts of the story enough to see the Tory Peer connection unless they already hate the Tories?
I wonder if people who defended the BBC about anti-Nat bias might end up including many of the same who will drone on about anti-Tory bias for months (not that it ever goes away, the fact of its left leaningness will ensure that) - even if those positions are not mutually exclusive, it will surely provide some entertaining pivots on positions.
Mr Nabavi is right. The BBC in fact went out of its way to help its 'talent' pay less tax and itself to pay less NI (but not complain about welfare cuts). This govt is going out of its way to fight aggressive tax avoidance. The left know how to play dirty.
The Guardian Media Group are based in the Cayman Islands and use hedge funds to stay alive. Should be fun when this becomes public. One reason I absolutely detest Labour is the appalling hypocrisy.
I will confess I find the left a little more likely to fall afoul of such hypocrisy, perhaps because they seem more likely to claim to be morally superior than the Tories, which can lead to some lazy tactics from Labour at times. The Tory lazy attacks seem less likely to bounce back and hit themselves by comparison, for some of them at least.
Edit: I don't actually like using the left-right nonsense spectrum as a means of analysing parties, I don't think there is any ideological consistency to support the notion certainly anymore, but as a self identifying label each uses it's unavoidable sometimes.
Comments
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-09/live3a-liberals-meet-to-debate-abbott-spill-motion/6078320
Just like Dave.
Daily Mirror ✔ @DailyMirror
Ed Miliband to promise extra two weeks’ paid paternity leave for new dads http://mirr.im/1M3zhuz pic.twitter.com/dxiRkNbnei
Leicester City Football Club would like to clarify its position relative to its manager, Nigel Pearson.
Contrary to media speculation on Sunday evening, Nigel remains the Club’s First Team Manager. Reports to the contrary are inaccurate and without foundation
http://www.lcfc.com/news/article/leicester-city-confirms-nigel-pearsons-position-2256316.aspx
FT Westminster @ftwestminster
·
Miliband runs into more fury over paternity leave http://on.ft.com/1AKWSwo
This is actually the best bit... So the policy costs money, but Ed says it will be 'paid' for by reducing child tax credits, and they will do that because, you guessed it, there will be MORE TAXPAYER FUNDED childcare.
The magic money tree needs to have a good harvest this year...
Ashes hero Steve Harmison appointed manager of non-league Ashington AFC
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ashes-hero-steve-harmison-appointed-8604110
Five minutes or so on live television - ITV News -Nigel Pearson Sacked - couldn't have checked the club website. At least some Pbers are up to speed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Prime_Ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom
1. They are too stupid.
2. They are complicit.
I suppose it would benefit UKIP more than the Tories, but if UKIP nicked a few seats from Labour then surely it would be to the Tories advantage.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/01/broxtowe/
Australian Liberal MPs vote against removing Tony Abbott as leader and prime minister. http://bbc.in/1C7Wfsc
BREAKING NEWS:Australian Liberal MPs vote against removing Tony Abbott as leader and prime minister.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2015/02/08/newspoll-57-43-to-labor/?comment_page=8/#comments
LCFC is always a soap opera, and Nigel a great but mardeh manager. I think the team are behind him and most of the fans. The alternatives suggested have all been dire apart from MON (pbuh).
We all get distracted. Some of us by this website!
Goodnight.
Goodnight.
Frankly I think the tipping point has passed, the moment we started to see a few tory leads in the polls. If the Tories aren't in the lead regularly and v soon we are faced with the possibility of Ed as PM.
That's like having your mother in law living with you ......... forever
NIght all
People get to the polling station and suddenly think "do I really want to see that guy on the telly for the next 5 years"...
Either 40 or 60 Labour MPs are employing staff on zero hour contracts
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9Wy7JXCcAAhYbk.jpg
From the Sun
A TRADE union chief has savaged Labour for “betraying” the working class — and revealed he is joining the GREENS.
Peter Pinkney, president of the RMT, will stand for the Green Party at the general election in Redcar, near Middlesbrough.
Not a labour supporter but just telling the facts.
They are doing their very best to help Labour. For the last five years they've been running scare stories about The Cuts. That didn't have much impact, so this winter they've been desperately trying to find disaster stories about the NHS. A few days ago they invented a nice little story about care for the elderly, based on an assumption which even the arts graduates who dominate the place must have realised was absolutely ludicrous, namely that every 65-year old needs care. Tonight's story ("in collaboration with the Guardian" - well, well, what a surprise) is a classic of BBC bias, somehow managing to mention the Lord Green is a Conservative peer, the kind of detail they are adept at omitting to mention in relation to Labour.
Council ructions as well we've seen reported recently IIRC.
A red conspiracy......That must be it.
Another interesting point...this story is a rehash and the tax authorities have had this info for 5 years and it comes from stolen info. Now when the Currant Bun gets stolen info from dodgy officials...well thats a different kettle of fish.
That said, I do recall seeing this story play out a few years ago, and I cannot see in the story why it is a big deal again, what really new information there is
I don't really see how it helps Labour much though even with the reference to a Tory Peer (which since he was in government until 2013 is hardly irrelevant) as these messes happen under their watch too and everyone knows it.
It appears they have sorted out the fragments and intend to make some of the names public.
From last July's Ashcroft Broxtowe poll:
Q.8 I would like to ask whether any of the main political parties have contacted you over the last few weeks - whether by delivering leaflets ornewspapers, sending personally addressed letters, emailing, telephoning you at home or knocking on your door. Have you heard in any of these ways from...?
Labour: 21%
The Conservatives: 20%
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Broxtowe-July-2014-Full-tables.pdf
So perhaps Nick is kidding himself about the superiority of the Labour ground game (or perhaps voters don't actually notice either way).
best bet would be to back ukip to win a seat off labour at 11/8 and you get rother valley, Grimsby, Dudley North, Walsall North, Telford and 240 odd others thrown in
Given ukip are 13/8 in Grimsby it has to be a great bet, prob should be odds on
I wonder if people who defended the BBC about anti-Nat bias might end up including many of the same who will drone on about anti-Tory bias for months (not that it ever goes away, the fact of its left leaningness will ensure that) - even if those positions are not mutually exclusive, it will surely provide some entertaining pivots on positions.
Nick Sutton ✔ @suttonnick
Monday's i front page:
Savings help for pensioners attacked as election bribe
No sh!t Sherlock,someone really should have a word with the editor ;-)
In short, the hyperbole was a bit much for me is all, but that doesn't mean the story might not be a bit biased, I was still weighing up my opinion on that, but it certainly isn't as drastic as the initial nonsense claims of open attacks on a party.
Of course, whether he has either the guts to try it or the ability to do it persuasively iis another matter.
The old force is still strong with you TJ.
The difference is I think they do make an effort, with varying results. I also know that it will be claimed there is the smoke of BBC bias even when there is no fire.
One of my favourite of what I like to think of as an example was a headline from the front page years ago about Osborne wielding the 'spending cuts ax', which a few minutes later was changed to something less, shall we say, politically charged. I could almost see a more senior editor whispering in the person who wrote it's ear to tone it down a notch.
Bit late for that now Tony!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/abcnews24/
Tories easy target on this because they love a bit of tax avoidance
Their names might be on the list?
Exciting "innit"?
Rewards for tax avoiders!!
The BBC in fact went out of its way to help its 'talent' pay less tax and itself to pay less NI (but not complain about welfare cuts). This govt is going out of its way to fight aggressive tax avoidance.
The left know how to play dirty.
None of this matters if there's a huge swing one way or the other. But in marginals it does.
Arguments about which ones are slightly worse are the only option I guess, but pretty unenthusing, that.
Tax evasion is illiegal. Tax avoidance is legal - but politically unfortunate. Especially of you want to become PM wearing a Labour rosette...
What do you think?
Peerage for the tax avoider in chief
Edit: I don't actually like using the left-right nonsense spectrum as a means of analysing parties, I don't think there is any ideological consistency to support the notion certainly anymore, but as a self identifying label each uses it's unavoidable sometimes.