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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Following Tony’s offer to do what he can to help LAB here’s

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  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    I would rather catch EBOLA than have an offer of help from Toxic Tony

    LOL - how Labour hate success (but he was a snake oil salesman)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,487
    edited February 2015
    Abbott, Turnbull and Bishop have just arrived at the partyroom meeting for the MPs vote on a Liberal leadership spill which is due in the next hour
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-09/live3a-liberals-meet-to-debate-abbott-spill-motion/6078320
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Well, Ed's been handed on a golden opportunity with this HSBC scandal. If he can't make something happen even with this...
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    rcs1000 said:

    You see the pictures in the paper. Count the protesters. That was exactly how many people who went. There are no protesters out of shot.
    Are you feeling all right? The pictures show parts of dense crowds which apparently extend beyond the borders of the picture. If this is an illusion the crowds must have been incredibly carefully choreographed to create the illusion. Who arranged that?
  • Eddie Redmayne :)

    He's just an overrated, posh boy old Etonian.

    Just like Dave.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Daily Mirror ✔ @DailyMirror

    Ed Miliband to promise extra two weeks’ paid paternity leave for new dads http://mirr.im/1M3zhuz pic.twitter.com/dxiRkNbnei

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301


    Daily Mirror ✔ @DailyMirror

    Ed Miliband to promise extra two weeks’ paid paternity leave for new dads http://mirr.im/1M3zhuz pic.twitter.com/dxiRkNbnei

    Great to see Ed helping businesses, get smaller every day.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,487
    Speedy Indeed
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Toxic Tony?

    Blair's net rating with Ipsos-Mori when he stood down as PM was minus 27

    Ed's rating last month was minus 35.

    Can you explain how Ed Miliband managed to be even more unpopular than Blair, without lying about invading a foreign country and killing 100,000 natives?
    Basically, he is a bit sh** and geeky
  • Paging Dr Fox

    Leicester City Football Club would like to clarify its position relative to its manager, Nigel Pearson.

    Contrary to media speculation on Sunday evening, Nigel remains the Club’s First Team Manager. Reports to the contrary are inaccurate and without foundation

    http://www.lcfc.com/news/article/leicester-city-confirms-nigel-pearsons-position-2256316.aspx
  • UKIP 11/4 in Rotherham, would love to see it but probably too skinny to warrant a bet
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,487
    edited February 2015
    JohnLilburne On the whole they all want lower taxes, a smaller state (albeit with Blair a bit more in favour of state spending than Osborne) , public sector reforms, back big business, the single market, support gay marriage and immigration. They may not all want to legalise heroin, but then any party which proposed that would be lucky to get 9% of the vote!
  • Paging Dr Fox

    Leicester City Football Club would like to clarify its position relative to its manager, Nigel Pearson.

    Contrary to media speculation on Sunday evening, Nigel remains the Club’s First Team Manager. Reports to the contrary are inaccurate and without foundation

    http://www.lcfc.com/news/article/leicester-city-confirms-nigel-pearsons-position-2256316.aspx

    Seems like more fine work by Sky Sports following the three day ban they imposed on Diego Costa.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Labour announces a new policy and then this happens,please could someone let me know what ;-)

    FT Westminster @ftwestminster
    ·
    Miliband runs into more fury over paternity leave http://on.ft.com/1AKWSwo

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited February 2015
    Ed Miliband came into conflict with business again on Sunday night as the Labour leader’s plans to extend fathers’ paternity rights was attacked as a “tax on business”.

    Labour’s plans to give fathers a month’s paid leave and increase the minimum level of paternity pay was denounced by the British Chamber of Commerce as an attempt to woo voters to the detriment of small and medium-sized businesses.
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/620442a8-afcd-11e4-b42e-00144feab7de.html

    This is actually the best bit...
    The IPPR estimates that Labour’s policy will cost £150m a year. Labour said the cost would be more than offset by reduced tax credits for child care on the back of the party’s plans to extend free childcare to three- and four-year-olds to 25 hours a week.
    So the policy costs money, but Ed says it will be 'paid' for by reducing child tax credits, and they will do that because, you guessed it, there will be MORE TAXPAYER FUNDED childcare.

    The magic money tree needs to have a good harvest this year...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited February 2015


    Daily Mirror ✔ @DailyMirror

    Ed Miliband to promise extra two weeks’ paid paternity leave for new dads http://mirr.im/1M3zhuz pic.twitter.com/dxiRkNbnei

    Won't poll well with all dads - pat leave is rubbish. Mother in law. Screaming wean. I couldn't wait to go back.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,757

    I thought you worked in the IT profession, my apologies if you don't.

    That said I am going through an age related crisis.
    You dont look 50
  • Delighted The Grand Budapest Hotel won so many awards.
  • From here to Paternity :)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Paging Dr Fox

    Leicester City Football Club would like to clarify its position relative to its manager, Nigel Pearson.

    Contrary to media speculation on Sunday evening, Nigel remains the Club’s First Team Manager. Reports to the contrary are inaccurate and without foundation

    http://www.lcfc.com/news/article/leicester-city-confirms-nigel-pearsons-position-2256316.aspx

    That's not the big football news of the day...

    Ashes hero Steve Harmison appointed manager of non-league Ashington AFC

    http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ashes-hero-steve-harmison-appointed-8604110
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    But honestly, Labour have "learnt lessons" and this time it will be different.

  • Marginals are very different. We're on our third round of canvassing every street since the last election (though obviously not everyone is in each time, and some are mysteriously never in). It does give a good feel for movements in sentiment - you can feel tides moving in and out. In my experience, around 75% nearly always say the same thing (give or take priods of don't knowing) over a 20-year period, but 25% are genuinely more fluid, and occasionally you get an abrupt switch when someone who was always X suddenly hates X because of one issue, often something quite apparently inconsequential like a supermarket getting planning permission or a councillor not answering a letter.

    Has there been an Ashcroft poll of Broxtowe yet? it would be interesting to see the "voter contact" percentages for the different parties.

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301

    Paging Dr Fox

    Leicester City Football Club would like to clarify its position relative to its manager, Nigel Pearson.

    Contrary to media speculation on Sunday evening, Nigel remains the Club’s First Team Manager. Reports to the contrary are inaccurate and without foundation

    http://www.lcfc.com/news/article/leicester-city-confirms-nigel-pearsons-position-2256316.aspx


    Five minutes or so on live television - ITV News -Nigel Pearson Sacked - couldn't have checked the club website. At least some Pbers are up to speed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,487
    A 2008 newsnight poll of 27,000 people had the best postwar PMs had Churchill and Attlee and Thatcher as the top 3 and Home, Eden and Brown as the worst

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Prime_Ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @journodave: Tony Abbott survives as prime minister, leader of liberal party 61-38, Channel 7 reports
  • Floater said:

    But honestly, Labour have "learnt lessons" and this time it will be different.

    If the Tories have any sense of strategy they will keep Rotherham and the PC gone mad stuff in the headlines right up until the GE, but they won't for two reasons:

    1. They are too stupid.
    2. They are complicit.

    I suppose it would benefit UKIP more than the Tories, but if UKIP nicked a few seats from Labour then surely it would be to the Tories advantage.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,234
    edited February 2015

    Has there been an Ashcroft poll of Broxtowe yet? it would be interesting to see the "voter contact" percentages for the different parties.

    He polled Broxtowe last April and July

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/01/broxtowe/
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    I doubt Ed could have had a worse day. Why on earth would Tony Blair offer anything to Labour? Blair in the background would like having 90 days of your mother in law staying with you.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 49s50 seconds ago
    Australian Liberal MPs vote against removing Tony Abbott as leader and prime minister. http://bbc.in/1C7Wfsc
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Has there been an Ashcroft poll of Broxtowe yet? it would be interesting to see the "voter contact" percentages for the different parties.

    We haven't even had a Palmer poll update(at least I haven't seen one), last time it was 7% ahead.
  • HYUFD said:

    A 2008 newsnight poll of 27,000 people had the best postwar PMs had Churchill and Attlee and Thatcher as the top 3 and Home, Eden and Brown as the worst

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Prime_Ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom

    Voodoo poll
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    bbc ticker on web.

    BREAKING NEWS:Australian Liberal MPs vote against removing Tony Abbott as leader and prime minister.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,487
    Gillard won 71-31 in February 2012, and was gone the following year!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    HYUFD said:
    39 Bedwetters - big Tone has seen them off - Phil will be raising a glass in Buck Palace tonight.
  • I doubt Ed could have had a worse day. Why on earth would Tony Blair offer anything to Labour? Blair in the background would like having 90 days of your mother in law staying with you.

    But every day seems to be a 'worse' day for Miliband, with just a gentle slip in the polls month on month to show for it. Perhaps it will turn out like Black Wednesday when the slide didn''t take place until later. British politics is a bit like a large super tanker. It takes time for it to turn, but once it does it's bloody hard to bring it back. From a betting point of view that makes things more tricky. Ideally you need to be aware of the move before a signal has even passed to the rudder.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Paging Dr Fox

    Leicester City Football Club would like to clarify its position relative to its manager, Nigel Pearson.

    Contrary to media speculation on Sunday evening, Nigel remains the Club’s First Team Manager. Reports to the contrary are inaccurate and without foundation

    http://www.lcfc.com/news/article/leicester-city-confirms-nigel-pearsons-position-2256316.aspx

    I am happy for the news. There was certainly a very mixed reaction on the LCFC message boards (where my Foxinsox handle comes from).

    LCFC is always a soap opera, and Nigel a great but mardeh manager. I think the team are behind him and most of the fans. The alternatives suggested have all been dire apart from MON (pbuh).
  • rcs1000 said:

    I'm sorry, that is a ridiculous stretch.

    If he'd been defence minister, would you have blamed the army?

    In any case, Rotherham was a failure on so many levels. It wasn't just the result (however pathetic be was ) of one mp being distracted.
    Sorry that you cannot see the link. Using your analogy. If MacShane was spending his time on the army and visiting army bases when he was not a minister in the MOD, and raising money through fraudulent expense claims that was spent on "research" for the military articles he was writing whilst not noticing the cesspit of abuse for many of Rotherham's children... then yes I would say that his love for the military affected his judgement.
    We all get distracted. Some of us by this website!

    Goodnight.
  • dr_spyn said:

    BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 49s50 seconds ago
    Australian Liberal MPs vote against removing Tony Abbott as leader and prime minister. http://bbc.in/1C7Wfsc

    Didn't Abbott recently win an election for the Liberals?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Didn't Abbott recently win an election for the Liberals?
    That was 2 years ago and his party is 14% behind in the polls.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:
    If he doesn't turn things around he will be out next year.

    Goodnight.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,487
    Sunil He did, but the end of the mining boom, knighthoods for Prince Philip etc saw Labor win the Queensland state election last weekend on a huge swing and a newspoll today has Labor ahead 57-43. If the polls don't improve then, like Gillard, his own party will eventually oust him, Speedy is spot on!
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    But every day seems to be a 'worse' day for Miliband, with just a gentle slip in the polls month on month to show for it. Perhaps it will turn out like Black Wednesday when the slide didn''t take place until later. British politics is a bit like a large super tanker. It takes time for it to turn, but once it does it's bloody hard to bring it back. From a betting point of view that makes things more tricky. Ideally you need to be aware of the move before a signal has even passed to the rudder.

    I am sure that's true. The Tories on here are waiting for that tipping point. Not sure that the electorate has woken up to the fact that there is an election.
    Frankly I think the tipping point has passed, the moment we started to see a few tory leads in the polls. If the Tories aren't in the lead regularly and v soon we are faced with the possibility of Ed as PM.
    That's like having your mother in law living with you ......... forever

    NIght all
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    But every day seems to be a 'worse' day for Miliband, with just a gentle slip in the polls month on month to show for it. Perhaps it will turn out like Black Wednesday when the slide didn''t take place until later. British politics is a bit like a large super tanker. It takes time for it to turn, but once it does it's bloody hard to bring it back. From a betting point of view that makes things more tricky. Ideally you need to be aware of the move before a signal has even passed to the rudder.

    I posted about 6 months that I thought this election might be decided by the "hovering pencils" on the day.

    People get to the polling station and suddenly think "do I really want to see that guy on the telly for the next 5 years"...
  • Can't zoom in properly.

    Either 40 or 60 Labour MPs are employing staff on zero hour contracts

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9Wy7JXCcAAhYbk.jpg
  • LD Hold Redcar?

    From the Sun

    A TRADE union chief has savaged Labour for “betraying” the working class — and revealed he is joining the GREENS.

    Peter Pinkney, president of the RMT, will stand for the Green Party at the general election in Redcar, near Middlesbrough.
  • He polled Broxtowe last April and July

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/01/broxtowe/
    Thanks TSE, though that period straddles the Euro-election so probably the %s will be different as we approach the GE.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    No I did not.

    Why are you reposting month old stories like they are new and have been denied I think.
    Andrew Neil tweeted it not me

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    LD Hold Redcar?

    From the Sun

    A TRADE union chief has savaged Labour for “betraying” the working class — and revealed he is joining the GREENS.

    Peter Pinkney, president of the RMT, will stand for the Green Party at the general election in Redcar, near Middlesbrough.

    Yes,but all these attacks on labour and they still ahead in the polls.

    Not a labour supporter but just telling the facts.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited February 2015
    Smarmeron said:

    @Speedy
    Top story on the Beeb and it seems to be being serialized in the Guardian to co-inside with the Panorama programme.

    Given that this is a re-hash of a 2012 story, that tells you a lot about the BBC.

    They are doing their very best to help Labour. For the last five years they've been running scare stories about The Cuts. That didn't have much impact, so this winter they've been desperately trying to find disaster stories about the NHS. A few days ago they invented a nice little story about care for the elderly, based on an assumption which even the arts graduates who dominate the place must have realised was absolutely ludicrous, namely that every 65-year old needs care. Tonight's story ("in collaboration with the Guardian" - well, well, what a surprise) is a classic of BBC bias, somehow managing to mention the Lord Green is a Conservative peer, the kind of detail they are adept at omitting to mention in relation to Labour.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,706
    edited February 2015

    LD Hold Redcar?
    .

    Hah, if that happens, even with a Green surge of epic proportions, Labour would have to be doing worse than even the most pessimistic of projections I would guess. Frankly I'm surprised even thousands of jobs being lost there in the run up to 2010 was enough to get people angry enough to vote against Labour, given they vote Labour as naturally as breathing up there.

    Council ructions as well we've seen reported recently IIRC.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Richard_Nabavi
    A red conspiracy......That must be it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited February 2015

    Given that this is a re-hash of a 2012 story, that tells you a lot about the BBC.

    They are doing their very best to help Labour. For the last five years they've been running scare stories about The Cuts. That didn't have much impact, so this winter they've been desperately trying to find disaster stories about the NHS. A few days ago they invented a nice little story about care for the elderly, based on an assumption which even the arts graduates who dominate the place must have realised was absolutely ludicrous, namely that every 65-year old needs care. Tonight's story ("in collaboration with the Guardian" - well, well, what a surprise) is a classic of BBC bias, somehow managing to mention the Lord Green is a Conservative peer, the kind of detail they are adept at omitting to mention in relation to Labour.
    I bet we hear a hell of a lot more about "TORY LORD GREEN" over the next 2-3 days (and the BBC will do their classic spin it out and out and out and out and out), than Labour run Rotherham council or Labour run Welsh NHS....just saying like.
  • kle4 said:

    Hah, if that happens, even with a Green surge of epic proportions, Labour would have to be doing worse than even the most pessimistic of projections I would guess. Frankly I'm surprised even thousands of jobs being lost there in the run up to 2010 was enough to get people angry enough to vote against Labour, given they vote Labour as naturally as breathing up there.

    Council ructions as well we've seen reported recently IIRC.
    Wasn't 2010 also down to Vera Baird being a voter repellent par excellence?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Given that this is a re-hash of a 2012 story, that tells you a lot about the BBC.

    They are doing their very best to help Labour. For the last five years they've been running scare stories about The Cuts. That didn't have much impact, so this winter they've been desperately trying to find disaster stories about the NHS. A few days ago they invented a nice little story about care for the elderly, based on an assumption which even the arts graduates who dominate the place must have realised was absolutely ludicrous, namely that every 65-year old needs care. Tonight's story ("in collaboration with the Guardian" - well, well, what a surprise) is a classic of BBC bias, somehow managing to mention the Lord Green is a Conservative peer, the kind of detail they are adept at omitting to mention in relation to Labour.
    Shout the bias from the roof tops then,but like usual the tory part will keep stum.

  • Smarmeron said:

    @Richard_Nabavi
    A red conspiracy......That must be it.

    Very convenient that Ed was banging on about this stuff over the weekend. At the time, people thought that is a bit out of the blue.

    Another interesting point...this story is a rehash and the tax authorities have had this info for 5 years and it comes from stolen info. Now when the Currant Bun gets stolen info from dodgy officials...well thats a different kettle of fish.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Backwater story...I didn't know the Irish Times was a left wing rag though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,706

    Given that this is a re-hash of a 2012 story, that tells you a lot about the BBC.

    They are doing their very best to help Labour. For the last five years they've been running scare stories about The Cuts. That didn't have much impact, so this winter they've been desperately trying to find disaster stories about the NHS. A few days ago they invented a nice little story about care for the elderly, based on an assumption which even the arts graduates who dominate the place must have realised was absolutely ludicrous, namely that every 65-year old needs care. Tonight's story ("in collaboration with the Guardian" - well, well, what a surprise) is a classic of BBC bias, somehow managing to mention the Lord Green is a Conservative peer, the kind of detail they are adept at omitting to mention in relation to Labour.
    Not buying it. It's one thing to suggest they are not doing enough to maintain bias, but framing it as in essence a deliberate conspiracy and operation as open as a political campaign takes it a step too far for me.

    That said, I do recall seeing this story play out a few years ago, and I cannot see in the story why it is a big deal again, what really new information there is

    I don't really see how it helps Labour much though even with the reference to a Tory Peer (which since he was in government until 2013 is hardly irrelevant) as these messes happen under their watch too and everyone knows it.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @kle4
    It appears they have sorted out the fragments and intend to make some of the names public.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,706

    Wasn't 2010 also down to Vera Baird being a voter repellent par excellence?
    I couldn't say - I have family in the seat and the only thing ever mentioned to me was how pissed everyone was about the closure of the Steelworks, but it isn't hard to think that a good candidate could still have salvaged the seat for Labour given how strong the territory is for them, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was a significant factor.
  • Has there been an Ashcroft poll of Broxtowe yet? it would be interesting to see the "voter contact" percentages for the different parties.

    You raise an interesting point.

    From last July's Ashcroft Broxtowe poll:

    Q.8 I would like to ask whether any of the main political parties have contacted you over the last few weeks - whether by delivering leaflets ornewspapers, sending personally addressed letters, emailing, telephoning you at home or knocking on your door. Have you heard in any of these ways from...?

    Labour: 21%
    The Conservatives: 20%


    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Broxtowe-July-2014-Full-tables.pdf

    So perhaps Nick is kidding himself about the superiority of the Labour ground game (or perhaps voters don't actually notice either way).
  • kle4 said:

    I couldn't say - I have family in the seat and the only thing ever mentioned to me was how pissed everyone was about the closure of the Steelworks, but it isn't hard to think that a good candidate could still have salvaged the seat for Labour given how strong the territory is for them, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was a significant factor.
    Looking at it, she saw a drop of nearly 19% in her vote and a near 22% swing overall
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2015

    UKIP 11/4 in Rotherham, would love to see it but probably too skinny to warrant a bet

    Prob value in my book, I reckon its about 7/4

    best bet would be to back ukip to win a seat off labour at 11/8 and you get rother valley, Grimsby, Dudley North, Walsall North, Telford and 240 odd others thrown in


    Given ukip are 13/8 in Grimsby it has to be a great bet, prob should be odds on
  • kle4 said:

    Not buying it. It's one thing to suggest they are not doing enough to maintain bias, but framing it as in essence a deliberate conspiracy and operation as open as a political campaign takes it a step too far for me.

    That said, I do recall seeing this story play out a few years ago, and I cannot see in the story why it is a big deal again, what really new information there is

    I don't really see how it helps Labour much though even with the reference to a Tory Peer (which since he was in government until 2013 is hardly irrelevant) as these messes happen under their watch too and everyone knows it.
    How to contradict yourself in one easy lesson.
  • Smarmeron said:

    @Richard_Nabavi
    A red conspiracy......That must be it.

    Not a red conspiracy, but BBC bias. Well, that's not news, is it? It's the broadcasting arm of the Guardian, after all.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,706
    Smarmeron said:

    @kle4
    It appears they have sorted out the fragments and intend to make some of the names public.

    Oh, ok. Eh, I think the Tories'll be fine from this one then, people already expect rotten things from places like HSBC, and how many people will get to the guts of the story enough to see the Tory Peer connection unless they already hate the Tories?

    I wonder if people who defended the BBC about anti-Nat bias might end up including many of the same who will drone on about anti-Tory bias for months (not that it ever goes away, the fact of its left leaningness will ensure that) - even if those positions are not mutually exclusive, it will surely provide some entertaining pivots on positions.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,217

    Can't zoom in properly.

    Either 40 or 60 Labour MPs are employing staff on zero hour contracts

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9Wy7JXCcAAhYbk.jpg

    Hypocrisy. It is the only thing about Labour that is world class.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,757
    Tories love a bit of tax avoidance though don't they
  • kle4 said:


    Not buying it. It's one thing to suggest they are not doing enough to maintain bias, but framing it as in essence a deliberate conspiracy and operation as open as a political campaign takes it a step too far for me.

    When did they last run an 'investigation' in collaboration with, say, the Telegraph?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Nick Sutton ✔ @suttonnick

    Monday's i front page:
    Savings help for pensioners attacked as election bribe


    No sh!t Sherlock,someone really should have a word with the editor ;-)
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    Very convenient that Ed was banging on about this stuff over the weekend. At the time, people thought that is a bit out of the blue.

    Another interesting point...this story is a rehash and the tax authorities have had this info for 5 years and it comes from stolen info. Now when the Currant Bun gets stolen info from dodgy officials...well thats a different kettle of fish.
    Late last year Ed told BBC executives that he would "weaponise" the NHS. The Beeb have been pushing NHS problems since (not so much the big problems in Labour's Wales). And CCHQ tells the story of a recent Beeb interview where the presenter wondered whether poor care has resulted from fewer nurses due to coalition cuts, whereas nurse employment has increased by thousands since 2010. The Beeb are grinding their lefty axe.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,706

    How to contradict yourself in one easy lesson.
    I prefer to think of it as a measured, but swayable opinion - Tory whinges about a corrupt, openly hostile BBC are exaggerated, well, whinges, but no-one would deny there is not a lefty leaning aspect to them, it's a question of how well they can manage to attempt a neutral position, or if they are. The conspiracy theorists don't seem to believe the BBC make any attempt, and every single word phrasing they don't like is evidence of that and why the licence fee is nonsense...but that does not mean they are always wrong.

    In short, the hyperbole was a bit much for me is all, but that doesn't mean the story might not be a bit biased, I was still weighing up my opinion on that, but it certainly isn't as drastic as the initial nonsense claims of open attacks on a party.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2015
    kle4 said:

    Oh, ok. Eh, I think the Tories'll be fine from this one then, people already expect rotten things from places like HSBC, and how many people will get to the guts of the story enough to see the Tory Peer connection unless they already hate the Tories?
    I don't think it's so much that people would associate it with the Tories, it's more that it gives Ed (theoretically) a chance to push this issue to the top of the agenda and say he's the only one who's prepared to deal with it. "Look at all these rich people clubbing together and trying to get out of their responsibilities to pay their taxes to society, at a time when everyone else is being punished and having their living standards cut, it's just another example of why the 'vested interests' need to be taken on"

    Of course, whether he has either the guts to try it or the ability to do it persuasively iis another matter.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Yes,but all these attacks on labour and they still ahead in the polls.

    Not a labour supporter but just telling the facts.

    Old habits die hard ;-)

    The old force is still strong with you TJ.
  • Tories love a bit of tax avoidance though don't they

    So do Ed and David, and if Ed carries on with this it won't be long before his families tax affairs hit the headlines.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,706
    edited February 2015

    When did they last run an 'investigation' in collaboration with, say, the Telegraph?
    I have no idea, you can let me know. As I have attempted to explain, it is the hyperbole I have a problem with, and the ridiculous seizing of any minor thing to justify a preset position, not the idea that the BBC does despite its efforts at neutrality have a lefty bias.

    The difference is I think they do make an effort, with varying results. I also know that it will be claimed there is the smoke of BBC bias even when there is no fire.

    One of my favourite of what I like to think of as an example was a headline from the front page years ago about Osborne wielding the 'spending cuts ax', which a few minutes later was changed to something less, shall we say, politically charged. I could almost see a more senior editor whispering in the person who wrote it's ear to tone it down a notch.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,217

    Yes a man distracted by his love for the EC.
    I hope MacShane was never distracted by posting on pb.com - when he should have been investigating the industrial-scale rape of the kids of his constituents....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,487
    Abbott 'We want to end the disunity and uncertainty which destroyed two Labor governments'

    Bit late for that now Tony!
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/abcnews24/
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,757

    So do Ed and David, and if Ed carries on with this it won't be long before his families tax affairs hit the headlines.
    How much tax has Ed avoided?

    Tories easy target on this because they love a bit of tax avoidance
  • kle4 said:

    I prefer to think of it as a measured, but swayable opinion - Tory whinges about a corrupt, openly hostile BBC are exaggerated, well, whinges, but no-one would deny there is not a lefty leaning aspect to them, it's a question of how well they can manage to attempt a neutral position, or if they are. The conspiracy theorists don't seem to believe the BBC make any attempt, and every single word phrasing they don't like is evidence of that and why the licence fee is nonsense...but that does not mean they are always wrong.

    In short, the hyperbole was a bit much for me is all, but that doesn't mean the story might not be a bit biased, I was still weighing up my opinion on that, but it certainly isn't as drastic as the initial nonsense claims of open attacks on a party.
    Yes it is.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Old habits die hard ;-)

    The old force is still strong with you TJ.
    My team on TV tomorrow night,fans of seventies football can reminisce on how football pitches use to be,we have a shocker for you ;-)

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @nigel4england
    Their names might be on the list?
    Exciting "innit"?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,706
    Danny565 said:

    I don't think it's so much that people would associate it with the Tories, it's more that it gives Ed (theoretically) a chance to push this issue to the top of the agenda and say he's the only one who's prepared to deal with it. "Look at all these rich people clubbing together and trying to get out of their responsibilities to pay their taxes to society, at a time when everyone else is being punished and having their living standards cut, it's just another example of why the 'vested interests' need to be taken on"

    Of course, whether he has either the guts to try it or the ability to do it persuasively iis another matter.
    Could help with the narrative a little I suppose, but to hear the dark whispers of conspiracy on here you'd think Ed had just been handed the election on a plate thanks to his pals in the media. Ed's talked about the same topic before no doubt, even with the story more prominent again I think he will struggle to wring any more from it - he says he's the only one prepared to deal with everything, so whatever drives the news next week will have a similar response from him.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    edited February 2015

    How much tax has Ed avoided?

    Tories easy target on this because they love a bit of tax avoidance
    You are criticising people for following, to the letter, legislation large parts of which were either drafted by or allowed to remain on the statute books by the Labour party for 13 years? Really, that's your argument?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,706

    Yes it is.
    Ok, I'm convinced.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    How much tax has Ed avoided?

    Tories easy target on this because they love a bit of tax avoidance
    Makes sense when it's more likely to be grabbed by greedy bottling spongers, than worthwhile causes.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,757
    The man in charge of HSBC at the time, Stephen Green, was made a Conservative peer and appointed to the government.

    Rewards for tax avoiders!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,706
    HYUFD said:

    Abbott 'We want to end the disunity and uncertainty which destroyed two Labor governments'

    Bit late for that now Tony!
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/abcnews24/

    Surely to end that sort of thing they'd all need to move to another country with a less volatile political culture - not sure that's a viable option for a sitting PM.
  • How much tax has Ed avoided?

    Tories easy target on this because they love a bit of tax avoidance
    So do your lot, see Margaret Hodge/Stemcor
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    kle4 said:

    Oh, ok. Eh, I think the Tories'll be fine from this one then, people already expect rotten things from places like HSBC, and how many people will get to the guts of the story enough to see the Tory Peer connection unless they already hate the Tories?

    I wonder if people who defended the BBC about anti-Nat bias might end up including many of the same who will drone on about anti-Tory bias for months (not that it ever goes away, the fact of its left leaningness will ensure that) - even if those positions are not mutually exclusive, it will surely provide some entertaining pivots on positions.
    Mr Nabavi is right.
    The BBC in fact went out of its way to help its 'talent' pay less tax and itself to pay less NI (but not complain about welfare cuts). This govt is going out of its way to fight aggressive tax avoidance.
    The left know how to play dirty.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    Charles said:



    Q.8 I would like to ask whether any of the main political parties have contacted you over the last few weeks - whether by delivering leaflets ornewspapers, sending personally addressed letters, emailing, telephoning you at home or knocking on your door. Have you heard in any of these ways from...?

    Labour: 21%
    The Conservatives: 20%


    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Broxtowe-July-2014-Full-tables.pdf

    So perhaps Nick is kidding himself about the superiority of the Labour ground game (or perhaps voters don't actually notice either way).

    Not really - as I've said before, the Tories dominate the air war with direct mail (by a 3-1 margin), and we balance it with the ground war. The problem about an air war, though, is that you don't get much data back, so when you come to do GOTV you're short of reliable info on who is still supporting you.

    None of this matters if there's a huge swing one way or the other. But in marginals it does.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,706
    edited February 2015

    Tories easy target on this because they love a bit of tax avoidance
    Who doesn't? Everyone loves bashing them, but no government seems to stamp it out, so either they are unable to tighten up the rules to prevent it, or they are unwilling, or both. Applies to anyone in government as far as I can see it, regardless of rosette, if they are unwilling. And if they cannot prevent clever work arounds, not much point getting angry at any one party for that.

    Arguments about which ones are slightly worse are the only option I guess, but pretty unenthusing, that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,217

    How much tax has Ed avoided?

    Tories easy target on this because they love a bit of tax avoidance
    Strange. Here's me thinking those MPs who were flipping their houses to avoid CGT numbered plenty of Labour folks....

    Tax evasion is illiegal. Tax avoidance is legal - but politically unfortunate. Especially of you want to become PM wearing a Labour rosette...

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,757

    So do your lot, see Margaret Hodge/Stemcor
    Perhaps the Tories are seen as slightly worse

    What do you think?

    Peerage for the tax avoider in chief
  • Mr Nabavi is right.
    The BBC in fact went out of its way to help its 'talent' pay less tax and itself to pay less NI (but not complain about welfare cuts). This govt is going out of its way to fight aggressive tax avoidance.
    The left know how to play dirty.
    The Guardian Media Group are based in the Cayman Islands and use hedge funds to stay alive. Should be fun when this becomes public. One reason I absolutely detest Labour is the appalling hypocrisy.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited February 2015

    Not really - as I've said before, the Tories dominate the air war with direct mail (by a 3-1 margin), and we balance it with the ground war. The problem about an air war, though, is that you don't get much data back, so when you come to do GOTV you're short of reliable info on who is still supporting you.

    You get data back from telephone canvassing, though.
  • Perhaps the Tories are seen as slightly worse

    What do you think?

    Peerage for the tax avoider in chief
    I think anyone who,pays a penny more in tax than they need to is an idiot. However running a campaign aimed at people doing the same as you is stupid in the extreme.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Speedy said:

    If he doesn't turn things around he will be out next year.

    Goodnight.
    When China sneezes - Australia catches a cold.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,217

    Perhaps the Tories are seen as slightly worse

    What do you think?

    Peerage for the tax avoider in chief
    You think flipper Darling won't get a peerage?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,706
    edited February 2015

    The Guardian Media Group are based in the Cayman Islands and use hedge funds to stay alive. Should be fun when this becomes public. One reason I absolutely detest Labour is the appalling hypocrisy.
    I will confess I find the left a little more likely to fall afoul of such hypocrisy, perhaps because they seem more likely to claim to be morally superior than the Tories, which can lead to some lazy tactics from Labour at times. The Tory lazy attacks seem less likely to bounce back and hit themselves by comparison, for some of them at least.

    Edit: I don't actually like using the left-right nonsense spectrum as a means of analysing parties, I don't think there is any ideological consistency to support the notion certainly anymore, but as a self identifying label each uses it's unavoidable sometimes.
This discussion has been closed.