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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » For those who didn’t see it the Lord Ashcroft interview on

SystemSystem Posts: 11,688
edited January 2015 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » For those who didn’t see it the Lord Ashcroft interview on SkyNews

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  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    I have no sound here, can anyone transcribe the key points ?
  • Options
    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Fill your boots !!
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    I have no sound here, can anyone transcribe the key points ?

    From memory:

    1) The SNP surge is real.
    2) Whether it is as big as reported elsewhere "remains to be seen".
    3) Some words about the possible impact of the referendum in Glasgow on voting habits.

    Oh, and Labour and the Conservatives are responsible for UKIP's rise.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    Telegraph Politics ‏@TelePolitics · 15m15 minutes ago
    If London treated Britain like Germany treats the eurozone, Londoners would pay no income tax http://tgr.ph/1Hj9zlP

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    calum said:

    Fill your boots !!

    My boots are already quite full of SNP, though others have more on.
  • Options
    So we're going to get:
    1. A hung parliament
    2. Tories and Labour seats very close
    3. A big tartan block
    4. A yellow rump but not that tiny a one
    5. A Dave minority in all likelihood
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    edited January 2015
    Patrick said:

    So we're going to get:
    1. A hung parliament
    2. Tories and Labour seats very close
    3. A big tartan block
    4. A yellow rump but not that tiny a one
    5. A Dave minority in all likelihood

    Who does Dave get his confidence and supply from if Lab and Con are both on 280 seats say.

    For me he either gets it from UKIP + DUP or
    the Lib Dems

    Lib Dem + DUP + UKIP even in a minority looks like a non starter for me.
  • Options
    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    May have been in the last thread, but broadcasters refusing to include DUP or move debates. If they really take place with the suggested timing, surely that makes almost any bet (except probably Scotland-specific) less certain?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    May have been in the last thread, but broadcasters refusing to include DUP or move debates. If they really take place with the suggested timing, surely that makes almost any bet (except probably Scotland-specific) less certain?

    I've avoided the debates market entirely, no idea what's going to happen with those. Or to be honest what the correct odds should be for anything related to it.
  • Options
    PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274
    edited January 2015
    The plausibility of the UK-wide government being dependent on the SNP for life support is implausible. Just think about it - a government dependent on the whim of Alex Salmond! Con - Lab is surely more likely than Lab - Lib - SNP. If the Tories come out on top the Libs will either abstain or re-form the existing coalition IMO.
  • Options
    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640
  • Options
    For those of us who are late to the SNP party, is there much value left from the perspective of those who are currently high on the SNP?

    As an olive branch for such information, can tell you that down here near Torbay, the Tories are pushing incredibly hard. I dearly hope that Adrian Sanders holds on as he always seems to, but every week the local candidate for the Tories is in the local paper fairly prominently, and my parents in the constituency have received 3 separate leaflets over the last few months from him. His name recognition should be fairly high by voting day as an attempt to eat into the incumbency effect.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
  • Options
    scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    Peter

    Have you considered the thought that if it were to be Con/Lab the whatever remnants if Lab are left after May in Scotland would be reduced to Pasok proportions at the subsequent election. That of course is why Lab/SNP is a very likely outcome of this election.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    Tonight on QT

    Sajid Javid, Peter Hain, Rhun ap Iorwerth, Germaine Greer and Kate Maltby

    40% non white panel #diversity
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,264
    PeterC said:

    The plausibility of the UK-wide government being dependent on the SNP for life support is implausible. Just think about it - a government dependent on the whim of Alex Salmond! Con - Lab is surely more likely than Lab - Lib - SNP. If the Tories come out on top the Libs will either abstain or re-form the existing coalition IMO.

    I believe Clegg slipped out a line the other day that they would deal with the party with most votes first. Note, votes rather than seats.

    As it happens, as I understand these matters, the existing PM gets first go at forming a stable government anyway. So he'll be ring Clegg up during the night of election unless it is clear he has lost completely.

    Not sure I agree with the general line that SNP in a coalition is implausible. Lots of things have happened in politics that could be described as that, until they actually happen. I have stuck my money on this one happening - risky IMHO - but not totally unlikely.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    For those of us who are late to the SNP party, is there much value left from the perspective of those who are currently high on the SNP?

    As an olive branch for such information, can tell you that down here near Torbay, the Tories are pushing incredibly hard. I dearly hope that Adrian Sanders holds on as he always seems to, but every week the local candidate for the Tories is in the local paper fairly prominently, and my parents in the constituency have received 3 separate leaflets over the last few months from him. His name recognition should be fairly high by voting day as an attempt to eat into the incumbency effect.

    Kevin Foster is a very good campaigner. I've been out in Coventry South leafleting with him before ^_~.

    I'm completely hedged on Torbay and think it will be the closest battle of the night for Con/Lib Dem.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    FPT - Philip Cowley: http://may2015.com/ideas/post-election-scenarios-four-things-to-know/

    "Any deal that can guarantee significantly more than 323 on a regular basis will be prioritised over razor-thin deals."
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,488
    edited January 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    I was thinking that, if you think there'll be no cabinet culls, then that's the way to go.

    I think most people think Danny Alexander is losing his seat, but the best odds on him winning are 11/5.

    So if you think he's going to win, taking the Zero or one option is a good proxy for that.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Patrick said:

    So we're going to get:
    1. A hung parliament
    2. Tories and Labour seats very close
    3. A big tartan block
    4. A yellow rump but not that tiny a one
    5. A Dave minority in all likelihood

    Who does Dave get his confidence and supply from if Lab and Con are both on 280 seats say.

    For me he either gets it from UKIP + DUP or
    the Lib Dems

    Lib Dem + DUP + UKIP even in a minority looks like a non starter for me.
    I don't think UKIP are going to get more than low single figures. I'm expecting SNP and LDs to have about 30 each. SF will abstain as usual. I think we're somewhat likely to see a repeat of the current coalition - even if it is not a full coalition again.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    I was thinking that, if you think there'll be no cabinet culls, then that's the way to go.

    I think most people think Danny Alexander is losing his seat, but the best odds on him winning are 11/2.

    So if you think he's going to win, taking the Zero or one option is a good proxy for that.
    11-5, not 11-2. Might be at 11-2 after Monday but who knows.
  • Options
    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Pulpstar said:

    May have been in the last thread, but broadcasters refusing to include DUP or move debates. If they really take place with the suggested timing, surely that makes almost any bet (except probably Scotland-specific) less certain?

    I've avoided the debates market entirely, no idea what's going to happen with those. Or to be honest what the correct odds should be for anything related to it.
    Well the thing is that pretty much the whole election is related to it. They may well not have a disruptive effect, but I think cleggmania and the scottish referendum certainly show they might, especially given how close the final debate is to polling day.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    I was thinking that, if you think there'll be no cabinet culls, then that's the way to go.

    I think most people think Danny Alexander is losing his seat, but the best odds on him winning are 11/2.

    So if you think he's going to win, taking the Zero or one option is a good proxy for that.
    11-5, not 11-2. Might be at 11-2 after Monday but who knows.
    Ooops, sausage fingers. 11/5
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    Patrick said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Patrick said:

    So we're going to get:
    1. A hung parliament
    2. Tories and Labour seats very close
    3. A big tartan block
    4. A yellow rump but not that tiny a one
    5. A Dave minority in all likelihood

    Who does Dave get his confidence and supply from if Lab and Con are both on 280 seats say.

    For me he either gets it from UKIP + DUP or
    the Lib Dems

    Lib Dem + DUP + UKIP even in a minority looks like a non starter for me.
    I don't think UKIP are going to get more than low single figures. I'm expecting SNP and LDs to have about 30 each. SF will abstain as usual. I think we're somewhat likely to see a repeat of the current coalition - even if it is not a full coalition again.
    DUP + UKIP will almost certainly be lower than the SNP total which is an important part of the calculation.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    edited January 2015

    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    I was thinking that, if you think there'll be no cabinet culls, then that's the way to go.

    I think most people think Danny Alexander is losing his seat, but the best odds on him winning are 11/2.

    So if you think he's going to win, taking the Zero or one option is a good proxy for that.
    why not just back him to win?

    EDIT see you corrected it to 11/5
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited January 2015
    FPT speaking of Marigolds or the lack of them
    Father of 26 gets new five-bedroom house and compensation after previous home deemed 'too small'
    Peter Rolfe, who has fathered 26 children by 15 different women, says he is baffled by the fuss and insists: 'I'm not living in a mansion'.
    telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11376551/Father-of-26-gets-new-five-bedroom-house-and-compensation-after-previous-home-deemed-too-small.html

    Umm...


    Peter Rolfe, 64, who receives more than £46,000 a year in benefits, was moved out of his old three-bedroom house on the Isle of White after telling his local council it was too small.

    Mr Rolfe, who has been married six times and has fathered children by 15 different women, was also awarded £1,000 compensation after the Local Government Ombudsman ruled his previous home had been too small for his needs.
  • Options
    Oh I say

    Is this the moment Kim Sears hurls foul-mouthed abuse at Andy Murray's opponent?

    Kim Sears is nicknamed a 'pottymouth' after being caught on camera watching fiancee Andy Murray at the Australian Open. But what is she saying?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/andymurray/11376598/Is-this-the-moment-Andy-Murrays-fiancee-hurls-foul-mouthed-abuse-at-his-Czech-opponent.html
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    edited January 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    Of course it's not inconceivable that the coalition will break-up before polling day, perhaps when the election is called; if Dave were then to appoint Conservative replacements to the departing LibDems, even for only 3 weeks, how would the bookies react to that eventuality?
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    FTP.
    AndyJS said:
    Congratulations to Michelle Obama for sticking two fingers up at the Saudis:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/11376192/Michelle-Obamas-Saudia-Arabia-headscarf-snub-was-deliberate.html
    --------------------------------------------------
    I posted this earlier, in refutation of the above: The Telegraph article is a load of bollocks.
    Matt Lee ‏@APDiploWriter 22m22 minutes ago
    Classic. It's a brave new (media) world.
    @nytimes: Michelle Obama Praised for Bold Stand She Didn’t Take in #Saudi"
    http://nyti.ms/1A1juby
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,488
    edited January 2015
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    I was thinking that, if you think there'll be no cabinet culls, then that's the way to go.

    I think most people think Danny Alexander is losing his seat, but the best odds on him winning are 11/2.

    So if you think he's going to win, taking the Zero or one option is a good proxy for that.
    why not just back him to win?
    It was a typo, he's 11/5, not 11/2

    And I already did a while back, and him to be next Lib Dem leader.
  • Options
    scotslass said:

    Peter

    Have you considered the thought that if it were to be Con/Lab the whatever remnants if Lab are left after May in Scotland would be reduced to Pasok proportions at the subsequent election. That of course is why Lab/SNP is a very likely outcome of this election.

    Scotslass -

    That's why I backed (and suggested here last Autumn) a Lab + SNP coalition following GE 2015. Whilst not without its problems, this looks far and away the most likely outcome to me ..... and to think those nice folk at Ladbrokes gave me odds of 25/1. I just hope it doesn't cost Shadsy his job!
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    isam said:

    Tonight on QT

    Sajid Javid, Peter Hain, Rhun ap Iorwerth, Germaine Greer and Kate Maltby

    40% non white panel #diversity

    Indeed, 20% orange.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    I was thinking that, if you think there'll be no cabinet culls, then that's the way to go.

    I think most people think Danny Alexander is losing his seat, but the best odds on him winning are 11/2.

    So if you think he's going to win, taking the Zero or one option is a good proxy for that.
    why not just back him to win?
    It'd be an obvious play if Danny was indeed 6.5, but at 3.2 a bet at 3.89 that can win even if he doesn't (And if he wins, I think Ed Davey and Uncle Vince hang on...) is a good play ?
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Sean_F said:

    In general, if I were a Defendant, this is one of the countries where I would be most confident of getting a fair trial.

    I largely agree, except in certain types of cases where a huge amount of social pressure has been brought to bear.

    Just make sure you're not accused of committing a crime in Greece or Bulgaria, where you can be shipped off to a corrupt system without evidence via David and Theresa's EAW.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    So when will this famous, one might say infamous, Scottish Poll by Ashcroft be published?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    JohnO said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    Of course it's not inconceivable that the coalition will break-up before polling day, perhaps when the election is called; if Dave were then to appoint Conservative replacements to the departing LibDems, even for only 3 weeks, how would the bookies react to that eventuality?
    Oh I hope they do, though I fear my 8-15 as recommended by quite a few on here for the cabinet to change is a sure fire loser.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11376781/Foreign-voters-will-decide-constituencies-for-the-first-time.html
    The 2015 election will be first in which seats are decided by foreign voters, a new study has found found.

    In two seats, East Ham and Brent North, the majority of voters were born overseas, while across the country almost 4 million voters – about one in 10 of the entire electorate in England and Wales – were born abroad.

    The study warned that “fierce rhetoric over immigration” in the run-up to the May election – as mainstream parties fight to undermine the rise of the UK Independence Party – was likely to “a lasting impact on the political orientations of the new migrant electorate”.

    According to the report, migrant communities from the Commonwealth - particularly from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria and South Africa – were likely to be the most influential at the general election. Despite their growing presence, European Union nationals will be under-represented in May 2015, as a majority have not yet acquired British citizenship and are unable to vote.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    A fun thing to think about is: what is the worst result for each of the political parties (apart from utter annihilation, of course) ?

    It can be better to just lose a very tight election, provided your opponent is left in an impossible position. You can come straight back when the Government falls.

    A specific example is Joe Clark, Canadian Premier for a very short time (1979-80), He ended seventeen years of Liberal rule in 1979. Without a majority & with fractious coalition partners, his Government fell almost immediately and back came Pierre Trudeau's Liberals for another term.

    I think for Labour, it would be better to just lose, and let Cameron struggle on with an impossible hand.

    I think a worse result for Labour would be to just edge the Tories, but have to rely on the SNP as a coalition partner or for support

    I just can see only one winner from a Labour-SNP coalition. For Labour, it really would be a case of going for a ride with a tiger.





  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    JohnO said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    Of course it's not inconceivable that the coalition will break-up before polling day, perhaps when the election is called; if Dave were then to appoint Conservative replacements to the departing LibDems, even for only 3 weeks, how would the bookies react to that eventuality?
    Oh I hope they do, though I fear my 8-15 as recommended by quite a few on here for the cabinet to change is a sure fire loser.
    It is all Alistair Carmichael's fault.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    For those of us who are late to the SNP party, is there much value left from the perspective of those who are currently high on the SNP?

    As an olive branch for such information, can tell you that down here near Torbay, the Tories are pushing incredibly hard. I dearly hope that Adrian Sanders holds on as he always seems to, but every week the local candidate for the Tories is in the local paper fairly prominently, and my parents in the constituency have received 3 separate leaflets over the last few months from him. His name recognition should be fairly high by voting day as an attempt to eat into the incumbency effect.

    Kevin Foster is a very good campaigner. I've been out in Coventry South leafleting with him before ^_~.

    I'm completely hedged on Torbay and think it will be the closest battle of the night for Con/Lib Dem.
    How do you rate UKIP's chances in Torbay?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    I was thinking that, if you think there'll be no cabinet culls, then that's the way to go.

    I think most people think Danny Alexander is losing his seat, but the best odds on him winning are 11/2.

    So if you think he's going to win, taking the Zero or one option is a good proxy for that.
    why not just back him to win?
    It was a typo, he's 11/5, not 11/2

    And I already did a while back, and him to be next Lib Dem leader.
    If you've backed Danny you may want to well take some cash on the Sinclairs holding Easter Ross - biggest personal vote in the whole of Scotland according to Dair, and the research I did last night seems to back that up.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    edited January 2015
    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    For those of us who are late to the SNP party, is there much value left from the perspective of those who are currently high on the SNP?

    As an olive branch for such information, can tell you that down here near Torbay, the Tories are pushing incredibly hard. I dearly hope that Adrian Sanders holds on as he always seems to, but every week the local candidate for the Tories is in the local paper fairly prominently, and my parents in the constituency have received 3 separate leaflets over the last few months from him. His name recognition should be fairly high by voting day as an attempt to eat into the incumbency effect.

    Kevin Foster is a very good campaigner. I've been out in Coventry South leafleting with him before ^_~.

    I'm completely hedged on Torbay and think it will be the closest battle of the night for Con/Lib Dem.
    How do you rate UKIP's chances in Torbay?
    I don't. If they come in in Torbay they should have managed to take other seats that I'm on for them in.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    I was thinking that, if you think there'll be no cabinet culls, then that's the way to go.

    I think most people think Danny Alexander is losing his seat, but the best odds on him winning are 11/2.

    So if you think he's going to win, taking the Zero or one option is a good proxy for that.
    why not just back him to win?
    It was a typo, he's 11/5, not 11/2

    And I already did a while back, and him to be next Lib Dem leader.
    Sorry I had edited, didn't spot your ricket
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited January 2015
    ###ing hell.

    Rotherham Victim Says Abusers 'Untouchable'

    A Sky News investigation into child sexual exploitation in Rotherham learns that hundreds of new cases continue to emerge.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1416946/rotherham-victim-says-abusers-untouchable

    I ###ing told you all. I was accused of banging on about it. Of being obsessed. But I refused to be silenced by the nasty types on here that try to silence any criticism of "oppressed groups" through calling anyone that brings it up as a "neanderthal" or a "bigot". I said that more and more children would be abused unless there was full scale national attention, in Rotherham and Derby and Ipswich and East London and Telford and Birmingham and all the other towns.

    And now it's happened. Every single one of you that tried to silence people raising this again and again deserves to be deeply shamed to your hearts. You've all been part of society's conspiracy of silent and it should keep you up at night. The same goes for all those in positions of power in Westminster, Whitehall and journalistic circles who knew of this scandal yet did nothing to try to get action. You're all ####ing collectively guilty for letting this continue. Now hundreds more children have been raped and tortured.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    I was thinking that, if you think there'll be no cabinet culls, then that's the way to go.

    I think most people think Danny Alexander is losing his seat, but the best odds on him winning are 11/2.

    So if you think he's going to win, taking the Zero or one option is a good proxy for that.
    why not just back him to win?
    It'd be an obvious play if Danny was indeed 6.5, but at 3.2 a bet at 3.89 that can win even if he doesn't (And if he wins, I think Ed Davey and Uncle Vince hang on...) is a good play ?
    Yeah sorry I just thought it looked strange because @TheScreamingEagles put 11/2
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    FPT
    Indigo said:

    Which means that we have currently saved £745.2bn - £721.5bn = 24bn in the last 5-6 years despite all the whining from lefties, and we need to find another £721.5m - £624.2bn = 97.3bn to balance the books....

    The OBR figures expect that most* of the gap will be closed by increasing tax receipts from a growing economy - up by £100bn in six years in real terms.

    Total managed expenditure is forecast to fall by just under £18bn in real terms in the same period, mostly in the two years 2016-18.

    * Or more than all, with a surplus being forecast.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Socrates said:

    Sean_F said:

    In general, if I were a Defendant, this is one of the countries where I would be most confident of getting a fair trial.

    I largely agree, except in certain types of cases where a huge amount of social pressure has been brought to bear.

    Just make sure you're not accused of committing a crime in Greece or Bulgaria, where you can be shipped off to a corrupt system without evidence via David and Theresa's EAW.
    Overall, conviction rates in rape cases are similar to those for other serious offences.

    Conviction rates are generally lower overall in countries with an adversarial justice system than they are in those with an inquisitorial system.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    edited January 2015
    @AndyJS If Kevin was campaigning for UKIP there I'd rate their chances alot higher.

    Ashcroft poll shows a UKIP squeeze when it comes down to "your seat" and a decent size personal vote for Sanders of the bay.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,402

    scotslass said:

    Peter

    Have you considered the thought that if it were to be Con/Lab the whatever remnants if Lab are left after May in Scotland would be reduced to Pasok proportions at the subsequent election. That of course is why Lab/SNP is a very likely outcome of this election.

    Scotslass -

    That's why I backed (and suggested here last Autumn) a Lab + SNP coalition following GE 2015. Whilst not without its problems, this looks far and away the most likely outcome to me ..... and to think those nice folk at Ladbrokes gave me odds of 25/1. I just hope it doesn't cost Shadsy his job!
    FPT - see my response on the previous thread. I think this is extremely unlikely to happen and is a foolhardy bet. Although a hope a good trader for you if you got on at 25/1

    There is far too much internal political opposition to this inside Labour; it's more likely there'd be a move to oust Ed if he tried.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:



    Kevin Foster is a very good campaigner. I've been out in Coventry South leafleting with him before ^_~.

    I'm completely hedged on Torbay and think it will be the closest battle of the night for Con/Lib Dem.

    How do you rate UKIP's chances in Torbay?
    I don't. If they come in in Torbay they should have managed to take other seats that I'm on for them in.
    UKIP posters were all over Torbay at the Euro elections, but a case of being loud rather than having a level of support to do anything other than scupper...hopefully...the Tories chances. My hope at least.

    UKIP did recently hold a Party Conference in Torquay, of course.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008

    A fun thing to think about is: what is the worst result for each of the political parties (apart from utter annihilation, of course) ?

    It can be better to just lose a very tight election, provided your opponent is left in an impossible position. You can come straight back when the Government falls.

    A specific example is Joe Clark, Canadian Premier for a very short time (1979-80), He ended seventeen years of Liberal rule in 1979. Without a majority & with fractious coalition partners, his Government fell almost immediately and back came Pierre Trudeau's Liberals for another term.

    I think for Labour, it would be better to just lose, and let Cameron struggle on with an impossible hand.

    I think a worse result for Labour would be to just edge the Tories, but have to rely on the SNP as a coalition partner or for support

    I just can see only one winner from a Labour-SNP coalition. For Labour, it really would be a case of going for a ride with a tiger.


    The 2010 election was supposed to be the one to lose, wasn't it?
  • Options
    FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Plato said:

    telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11376781/Foreign-voters-will-decide-constituencies-for-the-first-time.html

    The 2015 election will be first in which seats are decided by foreign voters, a new study has found found.

    In two seats, East Ham and Brent North, the majority of voters were born overseas, while across the country almost 4 million voters – about one in 10 of the entire electorate in England and Wales – were born abroad.

    The study warned that “fierce rhetoric over immigration” in the run-up to the May election – as mainstream parties fight to undermine the rise of the UK Independence Party – was likely to “a lasting impact on the political orientations of the new migrant electorate”.

    According to the report, migrant communities from the Commonwealth - particularly from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria and South Africa – were likely to be the most influential at the general election. Despite their growing presence, European Union nationals will be under-represented in May 2015, as a majority have not yet acquired British citizenship and are unable to vote.
    Hmmm, I suspect the 90% might just be more important, after all these voters will be monolithically Labour anyway. The key will be winning those white working class and middle class voters rightly worried about immigration.

    Does beg the question why these people are in my country in the first place and why they are voting in my elections?
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Socrates,

    The Casey report on Rotherham has been with Eric Pickles for nearly two weeks. He may be waiting for a slow news day to release it, or it may be .... delays because you always get delays.

    It may shed some light on things - assuming it does eventually see the light of day.
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    As well as support, many victims are still seeking justice.

    "Gemma" complained that local police "turned up suited an booted" outside her home with a panic alarm - showing neighbours that she was someone who had reported abuse.

    "All they care about is getting a statement," she said. "Six months on we've had no arrests, we've had no charges, evidence is still being lost."


    http://news.sky.com/story/1416946/rotherham-victim-says-abusers-untouchable
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    "The 2010 election was supposed to be the one to lose, wasn't it?"

    You want to lose the election, but make the winner's victory Pyrrhic.

    Labour didn't do that in 2010, as LibDem+Tory has proved very stable.

    If the only outcome of May 2015 is an unstable coalition, it may be better to lose it -- and wait for the next bus, which will come along within 12 months.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,933

    scotslass said:

    Peter

    Have you considered the thought that if it were to be Con/Lab the whatever remnants if Lab are left after May in Scotland would be reduced to Pasok proportions at the subsequent election. That of course is why Lab/SNP is a very likely outcome of this election.

    Scotslass -

    That's why I backed (and suggested here last Autumn) a Lab + SNP coalition following GE 2015. Whilst not without its problems, this looks far and away the most likely outcome to me ..... and to think those nice folk at Ladbrokes gave me odds of 25/1. I just hope it doesn't cost Shadsy his job!
    FPT - see my response on the previous thread. I think this is extremely unlikely to happen and is a foolhardy bet. Although a hope a good trader for you if you got on at 25/1

    There is far too much internal political opposition to this inside Labour; it's more likely there'd be a move to oust Ed if he tried.
    I guess I am saying this because I have backed it at 10s! But all the same, its ballsy to call a 25/1 shot that's now 8s "foolhardy"
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    edited January 2015

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:



    Kevin Foster is a very good campaigner. I've been out in Coventry South leafleting with him before ^_~.

    I'm completely hedged on Torbay and think it will be the closest battle of the night for Con/Lib Dem.

    How do you rate UKIP's chances in Torbay?
    I don't. If they come in in Torbay they should have managed to take other seats that I'm on for them in.
    UKIP posters were all over Torbay at the Euro elections, but a case of being loud rather than having a level of support to do anything other than scupper...hopefully...the Tories chances. My hope at least.

    UKIP did recently hold a Party Conference in Torquay, of course.

    TrBMillion to one for Labour to win there :)
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    CD13 said:

    Socrates,

    The Casey report on Rotherham has been with Eric Pickles for nearly two weeks. He may be waiting for a slow news day to release it, or it may be .... delays because you always get delays.

    It may shed some light on things - assuming it does eventually see the light of day.

    There are now thirty towns where abuse on this model has happened. Where are the reports into them? We need national action. Pickles, Cameron and May are asleep at the wheel of the most horrific crime wave in decades. Hundreds of kids still getting raped because of their incompetence.
  • Options

    scotslass said:

    Peter

    Have you considered the thought that if it were to be Con/Lab the whatever remnants if Lab are left after May in Scotland would be reduced to Pasok proportions at the subsequent election. That of course is why Lab/SNP is a very likely outcome of this election.

    Scotslass -

    That's why I backed (and suggested here last Autumn) a Lab + SNP coalition following GE 2015. Whilst not without its problems, this looks far and away the most likely outcome to me ..... and to think those nice folk at Ladbrokes gave me odds of 25/1. I just hope it doesn't cost Shadsy his job!
    FPT - see my response on the previous thread. I think this is extremely unlikely to happen and is a foolhardy bet. Although a hope a good trader for you if you got on at 25/1

    There is far too much internal political opposition to this inside Labour; it's more likely there'd be a move to oust Ed if he tried.
    Casino - I did reply to your post, but you obviously didn't see this. I think you've misread the LibDems' position post Clegg, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.
    BTW, what's your prediction of the shape of the Government post the GE. Lots of potential pitfalls however you look at it, but someone has to try and make it work!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    I think 25-1 for Lab-SNP was a great bet, though cover with Labour minority for sure.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited January 2015
    I do tend to agree with Casino Royale about the internal difficulties for Labour with an SNP coalition.

    There is already grumbling within Welsh Labour of Wales being underfunded compared to Scotland. (Whether the underfunding is real or not is irrelevant, the perception is that Wales is already getting a poor deal in comparison to Scotland.)

    I just cannot see how an SNP-Labour coalition, which will inevitably extract concessions for Scotland, can possibly find support from Welsh Labour MPs. Or at least, not without a later reckoning at the ballot box.

    I just also cannot see Labour sitting down with the party that has just devoured them in Scotland.

    It seems to me to be a recipe for causing more destruction to Labour in Scotland -- and terrible problems elsewhere.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    I can't see a coalition with the SNP as at all likely. Confidence and supply, yes, quite possibly.
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    FPT

    Indigo said:

    Which means that we have currently saved £745.2bn - £721.5bn = 24bn in the last 5-6 years despite all the whining from lefties, and we need to find another £721.5m - £624.2bn = 97.3bn to balance the books....

    The OBR figures expect that most* of the gap will be closed by increasing tax receipts from a growing economy - up by £100bn in six years in real terms.

    Total managed expenditure is forecast to fall by just under £18bn in real terms in the same period, mostly in the two years 2016-18.

    * Or more than all, with a surplus being forecast.
    The other thing that becomes clear with a close look at the figures is that the £24bn saved since 2009-10 has all come from net investment. Current expenditure is marginally up in real terms (not by £10bn, though). In the next Parliament the forecast is for the reverse: net investment to be roughly steady and current expenditure to fall.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,721
    Pulpstar said:

    JohnO said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    Of course it's not inconceivable that the coalition will break-up before polling day, perhaps when the election is called; if Dave were then to appoint Conservative replacements to the departing LibDems, even for only 3 weeks, how would the bookies react to that eventuality?
    Oh I hope they do, though I fear my 8-15 as recommended by quite a few on here for the cabinet to change is a sure fire loser.
    Is it right that once the election is called, there are no MPs? So are there Ministers during that period? If that's the case Cameron would only be able to appoint shadow Ministers, which is meaningless.
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Pulpstar said:

    JohnO said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    Of course it's not inconceivable that the coalition will break-up before polling day, perhaps when the election is called; if Dave were then to appoint Conservative replacements to the departing LibDems, even for only 3 weeks, how would the bookies react to that eventuality?
    Oh I hope they do, though I fear my 8-15 as recommended by quite a few on here for the cabinet to change is a sure fire loser.
    Is it right that once the election is called, there are no MPs? So are there Ministers during that period? If that's the case Cameron would only be able to appoint shadow Ministers, which is meaningless.
    There are still Ministers, as the executive functions of the government continue.

    Remember that neither the Prime Minister, nor any of his Cabinet, absolutely have to be MPs, it's just become a convention that they are.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    I can't see a coalition with the SNP as at all likely. Confidence and supply, yes, quite possibly.


    The problems will come with what the SNP want in return for that support.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    For those of us who are late to the SNP party, is there much value left from the perspective of those who are currently high on the SNP?

    As an olive branch for such information, can tell you that down here near Torbay, the Tories are pushing incredibly hard. I dearly hope that Adrian Sanders holds on as he always seems to, but every week the local candidate for the Tories is in the local paper fairly prominently, and my parents in the constituency have received 3 separate leaflets over the last few months from him. His name recognition should be fairly high by voting day as an attempt to eat into the incumbency effect.

    As I said yesterday, CCHQ thinks Torbay can fall this time. Sanders in recent elections has drained the pond dry of possible tactical voters. Labour were close to losing their deposit last time, and the UKIP vote went down too. Much as I like Dr Sarah Wollaston as my MP, she will be very safely returned, so all my election efforts will be in pounding the pavements of Torbay rather than Totnes. And I will not be alone...

    One element of LibDem incumbency that hasn't got the attention it perhaps deserves is that there are a significant number of LibDem voters who know their MP - feel they have a closer relationship than they have had in the past with their MP - maybe even feel a sense of ownership of their MP - and consequently feel a sense of betrayal from that MP when they went into Govt. with the Tories. Those voters are not coming back, even to keep out the Tories. They will go Green or sit on their hands.

    So for these voters, there is a considerable anti-incumbency element.
  • Options
    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    "Ministry of Justice says data from three semi-secret inquiries has gone missing on discs lost in the post"
    (BBC ticker)
    I wonder which ones they are?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,402

    I can't see a coalition with the SNP as at all likely. Confidence and supply, yes, quite possibly.

    Agreed.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    It looks like they've found oil on the Golan....and just look at the sleazebags queuing up to steal it

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/how-islamist-rebels-engineered-israel-s-oil-grab-syria-740568063
  • Options
    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    I can't see a coalition with the SNP as at all likely. Confidence and supply, yes, quite possibly.


    The problems will come with what the SNP want in return for that support.
    How flexible are Labour on Trident?
  • Options
    Smarmeron said:

    "Ministry of Justice says data from three semi-secret inquiries has gone missing on discs lost in the post"
    (BBC ticker)
    I wonder which ones they are?

    The Mark Duggan, Azelle Rodney and Mark Hamill inquiries.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,402

    scotslass said:

    Peter

    Have you considered the thought that if it were to be Con/Lab the whatever remnants if Lab are left after May in Scotland would be reduced to Pasok proportions at the subsequent election. That of course is why Lab/SNP is a very likely outcome of this election.

    Scotslass -

    That's why I backed (and suggested here last Autumn) a Lab + SNP coalition following GE 2015. Whilst not without its problems, this looks far and away the most likely outcome to me ..... and to think those nice folk at Ladbrokes gave me odds of 25/1. I just hope it doesn't cost Shadsy his job!
    FPT - see my response on the previous thread. I think this is extremely unlikely to happen and is a foolhardy bet. Although a hope a good trader for you if you got on at 25/1

    There is far too much internal political opposition to this inside Labour; it's more likely there'd be a move to oust Ed if he tried.
    Casino - I did reply to your post, but you obviously didn't see this. I think you've misread the LibDems' position post Clegg, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.
    BTW, what's your prediction of the shape of the Government post the GE. Lots of potential pitfalls however you look at it, but someone has to try and make it work!
    I expect either a Conservative minority, with Lib Dem abstentions on confidence and supply matters, or a much weaker time-limited coalition deal with the Lib-Dems to end 2017.

    That'd be predicated on a few big constitutional reforms (e.g. PR for local elections sans referendum, in exchange for EU referendum) and a couple of joint budgets.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    I do tend to agree with Casino Royale about the internal difficulties for Labour with an SNP coalition.

    There is already grumbling within Welsh Labour of Wales being underfunded compared to Scotland. (Whether the underfunding is real or not is irrelevant, the perception is that Wales is already getting a poor deal in comparison to Scotland.)

    I just cannot see how an SNP-Labour coalition, which will inevitably extract concessions for Scotland, can possibly find support from Welsh Labour MPs. Or at least, not without a later reckoning at the ballot box.

    I just also cannot see Labour sitting down with the party that has just devoured them in Scotland.

    It seems to me to be a recipe for causing more destruction to Labour in Scotland -- and terrible problems elsewhere.

    It will be tricky for Labour in Wales if the voters cotton on to the Scots having more funding for their NHS than the Welsh would get. Given how difficult the NHS is already for Labour in Wales.

    Of course, Labour could just match that spending for Wales. But then the necrotising fasciitis spreads to all their limbs in England...
  • Options

    For those of us who are late to the SNP party, is there much value left from the perspective of those who are currently high on the SNP?

    As an olive branch for such information, can tell you that down here near Torbay, the Tories are pushing incredibly hard. I dearly hope that Adrian Sanders holds on as he always seems to, but every week the local candidate for the Tories is in the local paper fairly prominently, and my parents in the constituency have received 3 separate leaflets over the last few months from him. His name recognition should be fairly high by voting day as an attempt to eat into the incumbency effect.

    As I said yesterday, CCHQ thinks Torbay can fall this time. Sanders in recent elections has drained the pond dry of possible tactical voters. Labour were close to losing their deposit last time, and the UKIP vote went down too. Much as I like Dr Sarah Wollaston as my MP, she will be very safely returned, so all my election efforts will be in pounding the pavements of Torbay rather than Totnes. And I will not be alone...

    One element of LibDem incumbency that hasn't got the attention it perhaps deserves is that there are a significant number of LibDem voters who know their MP - feel they have a closer relationship than they have had in the past with their MP - maybe even feel a sense of ownership of their MP - and consequently feel a sense of betrayal from that MP when they went into Govt. with the Tories. Those voters are not coming back, even to keep out the Tories. They will go Green or sit on their hands.

    So for these voters, there is a considerable anti-incumbency element.
    Since I live in Totnes constituency as well, and also recognise that Dr. Sarah will be returned easily, I too will be crossing the border into Torbay, but for Lib Dem leafleting!
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    For those of us who are late to the SNP party, is there much value left from the perspective of those who are currently high on the SNP?

    As an olive branch for such information, can tell you that down here near Torbay, the Tories are pushing incredibly hard. I dearly hope that Adrian Sanders holds on as he always seems to, but every week the local candidate for the Tories is in the local paper fairly prominently, and my parents in the constituency have received 3 separate leaflets over the last few months from him. His name recognition should be fairly high by voting day as an attempt to eat into the incumbency effect.

    As I said yesterday, CCHQ thinks Torbay can fall this time. Sanders in recent elections has drained the pond dry of possible tactical voters. Labour were close to losing their deposit last time, and the UKIP vote went down too. Much as I like Dr Sarah Wollaston as my MP, she will be very safely returned, so all my election efforts will be in pounding the pavements of Torbay rather than Totnes. And I will not be alone...

    One element of LibDem incumbency that hasn't got the attention it perhaps deserves is that there are a significant number of LibDem voters who know their MP - feel they have a closer relationship than they have had in the past with their MP - maybe even feel a sense of ownership of their MP - and consequently feel a sense of betrayal from that MP when they went into Govt. with the Tories. Those voters are not coming back, even to keep out the Tories. They will go Green or sit on their hands.

    So for these voters, there is a considerable anti-incumbency element.
    Since I live in Totnes constituency as well, and also recognise that Dr. Sarah will be returned easily, I too will be crossing the border into Torbay, but for Lib Dem leafleting!
    Why don't you two pair off and agree to stay in and watch Homes Under The Hammer instead?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    For those of us who are late to the SNP party, is there much value left from the perspective of those who are currently high on the SNP?

    As an olive branch for such information, can tell you that down here near Torbay, the Tories are pushing incredibly hard. I dearly hope that Adrian Sanders holds on as he always seems to, but every week the local candidate for the Tories is in the local paper fairly prominently, and my parents in the constituency have received 3 separate leaflets over the last few months from him. His name recognition should be fairly high by voting day as an attempt to eat into the incumbency effect.

    As I said yesterday, CCHQ thinks Torbay can fall this time. Sanders in recent elections has drained the pond dry of possible tactical voters. Labour were close to losing their deposit last time, and the UKIP vote went down too. Much as I like Dr Sarah Wollaston as my MP, she will be very safely returned, so all my election efforts will be in pounding the pavements of Torbay rather than Totnes. And I will not be alone...

    One element of LibDem incumbency that hasn't got the attention it perhaps deserves is that there are a significant number of LibDem voters who know their MP - feel they have a closer relationship than they have had in the past with their MP - maybe even feel a sense of ownership of their MP - and consequently feel a sense of betrayal from that MP when they went into Govt. with the Tories. Those voters are not coming back, even to keep out the Tories. They will go Green or sit on their hands.

    So for these voters, there is a considerable anti-incumbency element.
    Since I live in Totnes constituency as well, and also recognise that Dr. Sarah will be returned easily, I too will be crossing the border into Torbay, but for Lib Dem leafleting!
    We should be Green and car-pool! That would be very Totnes.....
  • Options

    For those of us who are late to the SNP party, is there much value left from the perspective of those who are currently high on the SNP?

    As an olive branch for such information, can tell you that down here near Torbay, the Tories are pushing incredibly hard. I dearly hope that Adrian Sanders holds on as he always seems to, but every week the local candidate for the Tories is in the local paper fairly prominently, and my parents in the constituency have received 3 separate leaflets over the last few months from him. His name recognition should be fairly high by voting day as an attempt to eat into the incumbency effect.

    As I said yesterday, CCHQ thinks Torbay can fall this time. Sanders in recent elections has drained the pond dry of possible tactical voters. Labour were close to losing their deposit last time, and the UKIP vote went down too. Much as I like Dr Sarah Wollaston as my MP, she will be very safely returned, so all my election efforts will be in pounding the pavements of Torbay rather than Totnes. And I will not be alone...

    One element of LibDem incumbency that hasn't got the attention it perhaps deserves is that there are a significant number of LibDem voters who know their MP - feel they have a closer relationship than they have had in the past with their MP - maybe even feel a sense of ownership of their MP - and consequently feel a sense of betrayal from that MP when they went into Govt. with the Tories. Those voters are not coming back, even to keep out the Tories. They will go Green or sit on their hands.

    So for these voters, there is a considerable anti-incumbency element.
    Since I live in Totnes constituency as well, and also recognise that Dr. Sarah will be returned easily, I too will be crossing the border into Torbay, but for Lib Dem leafleting!
    Why don't you two pair off and agree to stay in and watch Homes Under The Hammer instead?
    Pairing off would be acceptable, but I am hoping to drag my wife and baby in pushchair along. After all, not like we get an election every day is it...

    Last campaign I was involved in we lost the Green's. I have a duck to break.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    For those of us who are late to the SNP party, is there much value left from the perspective of those who are currently high on the SNP?

    As an olive branch for such information, can tell you that down here near Torbay, the Tories are pushing incredibly hard. I dearly hope that Adrian Sanders holds on as he always seems to, but every week the local candidate for the Tories is in the local paper fairly prominently, and my parents in the constituency have received 3 separate leaflets over the last few months from him. His name recognition should be fairly high by voting day as an attempt to eat into the incumbency effect.

    As I said yesterday, CCHQ thinks Torbay can fall this time. Sanders in recent elections has drained the pond dry of possible tactical voters. Labour were close to losing their deposit last time, and the UKIP vote went down too. Much as I like Dr Sarah Wollaston as my MP, she will be very safely returned, so all my election efforts will be in pounding the pavements of Torbay rather than Totnes. And I will not be alone...

    One element of LibDem incumbency that hasn't got the attention it perhaps deserves is that there are a significant number of LibDem voters who know their MP - feel they have a closer relationship than they have had in the past with their MP - maybe even feel a sense of ownership of their MP - and consequently feel a sense of betrayal from that MP when they went into Govt. with the Tories. Those voters are not coming back, even to keep out the Tories. They will go Green or sit on their hands.

    So for these voters, there is a considerable anti-incumbency element.
    Since I live in Totnes constituency as well, and also recognise that Dr. Sarah will be returned easily, I too will be crossing the border into Torbay, but for Lib Dem leafleting!
    Why don't you two pair off and agree to stay in and watch Homes Under The Hammer instead?
    If it was Eamonn Holmes under the hammer, then maybe....
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Good afternoon everyone and I see for the 2nd day in a row Shadsy has indicated things are moving from red to blue. This time its the Tory price in Southampton Itchen which is closing in on the Labour one. I look forward to seeing the rather pompous and trivial Rowenna Davis lose.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    Pulpstar said:

    JohnO said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Paddy Power have put up a market on the number of Cabinet Ministers being culled

    3 is the favourite

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1991640

    Zero looks a great bet to me at 10-1, also 1 at 5-1.

    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    1 @ 5/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £4.10 Pending
    29/01/2015 Single To Win
    0 @ 10/1
    |How many Cabinet Ministers will lose th
    How many Cabinet ministers will lose their seats? £2.23 Pending
    Of course it's not inconceivable that the coalition will break-up before polling day, perhaps when the election is called; if Dave were then to appoint Conservative replacements to the departing LibDems, even for only 3 weeks, how would the bookies react to that eventuality?
    Oh I hope they do, though I fear my 8-15 as recommended by quite a few on here for the cabinet to change is a sure fire loser.
    Is it right that once the election is called, there are no MPs? So are there Ministers during that period? If that's the case Cameron would only be able to appoint shadow Ministers, which is meaningless.
    Ministers continue in office even as Parliament is dissolved; after all it is Her Majesty's Government. So Cameron could appoint 'real' Ministers....as did Churchill in 1945, when Labour left the war-time coalition and he formed an all Conservative 'caretaker' administration.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,402
    Labour majority now at 11/1 and NOM into 1.29 on Betfair

    The Ashcroft effect?
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Socrates said:

    CD13 said:

    Socrates,

    The Casey report on Rotherham has been with Eric Pickles for nearly two weeks. He may be waiting for a slow news day to release it, or it may be .... delays because you always get delays.

    It may shed some light on things - assuming it does eventually see the light of day.

    There are now thirty towns where abuse on this model has happened. Where are the reports into them? We need national action. Pickles, Cameron and May are asleep at the wheel of the most horrific crime wave in decades. Hundreds of kids still getting raped because of their incompetence.
    The incidents you refer to occurred before Cameron came to power. All of the reports previous to the Jay Report and which were suppressed were carried out under Labour. The SKY report says the additional cases that have come to light occurred before the Jay Report was published - the numbers which were claimed (1400) were even then put at a conservative estimate.
    The reason we have not got an enquiry is that the victims are blocking one. I can see no legitimate reason why the chairwomen suggested should not have been appointed. As it stands I can see no likelihood of satisfying the victims demands if their claims of guilt by association continue. As such it will be a long time if ever we get an enquiry.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    Good afternoon everyone and I see for the 2nd day in a row Shadsy has indicated things are moving from red to blue. This time its the Tory price in Southampton Itchen which is closing in on the Labour one. I look forward to seeing the rather pompous and trivial Rowenna Davis lose.

    Will you vote Conservative or try and keep Thurso in place ?
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    PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274
    edited January 2015
    I expect Cameron to meet parliament with an "apres moi le deluge" type gesture, unless he has lost completely: dare the other parties to vote him out with a coalition of the losers. I also expect the fixed term parliament act to be repealed.
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    Last night's tied YG pegs back the Tory lead in this week's "part-ELBOW" so far to 0.2% (0.5% yesterday, 0.4% Tuesday). Libdems and Greens within 0.5% of each other.

    Con 32.8
    Lab 32.6
    UKIP 15.6
    LD 7.0
    Grn 6.5
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    CD13 said:

    Socrates,

    The Casey report on Rotherham has been with Eric Pickles for nearly two weeks. He may be waiting for a slow news day to release it, or it may be .... delays because you always get delays.

    It may shed some light on things - assuming it does eventually see the light of day.

    There are now thirty towns where abuse on this model has happened. Where are the reports into them? We need national action. Pickles, Cameron and May are asleep at the wheel of the most horrific crime wave in decades. Hundreds of kids still getting raped because of their incompetence.
    The incidents you refer to occurred before Cameron came to power. All of the reports previous to the Jay Report and which were suppressed were carried out under Labour. The SKY report says the additional cases that have come to light occurred before the Jay Report was published - the numbers which were claimed (1400) were even then put at a conservative estimate.
    The reason we have not got an enquiry is that the victims are blocking one. I can see no legitimate reason why the chairwomen suggested should not have been appointed. As it stands I can see no likelihood of satisfying the victims demands if their claims of guilt by association continue. As such it will be a long time if ever we get an enquiry.
    These are the terms of reference for the proposed enquiry:

    To consider the extent to which State and non-State institutions have failed in their duty of care to protect children from sexual abuse and exploitation; to consider the extent to which those failings have since been addressed; to identify further action needed to address any failings identified; and to publish a report with recommendations.

    So it won't look at all into the street grooming gangs in dozens of towns across the country themselves.

    Also, that's just the public inquiry. Why isn't there an Operation Yewtree for street grooming gangs?
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    Socrates said:

    CD13 said:

    Socrates,

    The Casey report on Rotherham has been with Eric Pickles for nearly two weeks. He may be waiting for a slow news day to release it, or it may be .... delays because you always get delays.

    It may shed some light on things - assuming it does eventually see the light of day.

    There are now thirty towns where abuse on this model has happened. Where are the reports into them? We need national action. Pickles, Cameron and May are asleep at the wheel of the most horrific crime wave in decades. Hundreds of kids still getting raped because of their incompetence.
    The incidents you refer to occurred before Cameron came to power. All of the reports previous to the Jay Report and which were suppressed were carried out under Labour. The SKY report says the additional cases that have come to light occurred before the Jay Report was published - the numbers which were claimed (1400) were even then put at a conservative estimate.
    The reason we have not got an enquiry is that the victims are blocking one. I can see no legitimate reason why the chairwomen suggested should not have been appointed. As it stands I can see no likelihood of satisfying the victims demands if their claims of guilt by association continue. As such it will be a long time if ever we get an enquiry.
    So what if the incidents are before Cameron's time? After five years in power, you've got the opportunity and means to grasp the nettle. I may not yet have hit Socrates' level of indignation, but I am astounded Cameron hasn't been stronger on this. He's had plenty of time to plan a way to not sound racist (if that's what he's worried about; I know Socrates would be dismissive) or whatever his concerns might otherwise be.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Just read the article about the change in rape laws. Completely disagree with the change, so much for "innocent until proven guilty".

    I know there are a lot of scumbags who are "getting away with it", but this is not the answer.

    It may well raise the conviction rate, but it will also raise the false conviction rate too. Except they won't be "false" in the eyes of the law, as if you cannot prove you got consent: you are guilty.

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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    CD13 said:

    Socrates,

    The Casey report on Rotherham has been with Eric Pickles for nearly two weeks. He may be waiting for a slow news day to release it, or it may be .... delays because you always get delays.

    It may shed some light on things - assuming it does eventually see the light of day.

    There are now thirty towns where abuse on this model has happened. Where are the reports into them? We need national action. Pickles, Cameron and May are asleep at the wheel of the most horrific crime wave in decades. Hundreds of kids still getting raped because of their incompetence.
    The incidents you refer to occurred before Cameron came to power. All of the reports previous to the Jay Report and which were suppressed were carried out under Labour. The SKY report says the additional cases that have come to light occurred before the Jay Report was published - the numbers which were claimed (1400) were even then put at a conservative estimate.
    The reason we have not got an enquiry is that the victims are blocking one. I can see no legitimate reason why the chairwomen suggested should not have been appointed. As it stands I can see no likelihood of satisfying the victims demands if their claims of guilt by association continue. As such it will be a long time if ever we get an enquiry.
    These are the terms of reference for the proposed enquiry:

    To consider the extent to which State and non-State institutions have failed in their duty of care to protect children from sexual abuse and exploitation; to consider the extent to which those failings have since been addressed; to identify further action needed to address any failings identified; and to publish a report with recommendations.

    So it won't look at all into the street grooming gangs in dozens of towns across the country themselves.

    Also, that's just the public inquiry. Why isn't there an Operation Yewtree for street grooming gangs?
    "Cultural sensitivity".
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322


    Just read the article about the change in rape laws. Completely disagree with the change, so much for "innocent until proven guilty".

    I know there are a lot of scumbags who are "getting away with it", but this is not the answer.

    It may well raise the conviction rate, but it will also raise the false conviction rate too. Except they won't be "false" in the eyes of the law, as if you cannot prove you got consent: you are guilty.

    According to antifrank, that means you're a neanderthal who doesn't want to stop more women being raped.
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092


    as if you cannot prove you got consent: you are guilty.

    Says who?

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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323


    Just read the article about the change in rape laws. Completely disagree with the change, so much for "innocent until proven guilty".

    I know there are a lot of scumbags who are "getting away with it", but this is not the answer.

    It may well raise the conviction rate, but it will also raise the false conviction rate too. Except they won't be "false" in the eyes of the law, as if you cannot prove you got consent: you are guilty.

    That's not the effect of the change.

    “We want police and prosecutors to make sure they ask in every case where consent is the issue - [a] how did the suspect know the complainant was saying yes and [b] doing so freely and knowingly?” (my letters)

    As regards [a] this is the reasonable belief test already enshrined in the 2003 Act. A belief in consent must be informed by some conduct on behalf of the alleged victim.

    [b] is a change in priority, however. It has always been the case that the victim must have the freedom and capacity to consent. For example, there comes a point where someone is too drunk to consent. However the courts have been rather inconsistent about when this is reached (the headline case, Bree, the woman was practically paralytic on the floor yet could, apparently, have consented - but that hasn't gone for all cases). Thus in light of what hasn't been a great approach by the courts the CPS/DPP have stepped in, as far as the judging of evidence at the pre-trial stage, to ask the same question of consent [a] at point [b]. What grounds did the defendant have to believe the alleged victim was able to consent?

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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584


    as if you cannot prove you got consent: you are guilty.

    Says who?

    The new rules from the DPP.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,215
    Socrates: I agree with you that the silence and apparent lack of action post the Rotherham report seem baffling and shameful. I say "apparent" because there may be stuff going on behind the scenes that is not being reported.

    Personally, rather than have endless inquiries I would want to see actual prosecutions.
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323


    as if you cannot prove you got consent: you are guilty.

    Says who?

    The new rules from the DPP.
    To add to my previous comment, there's no question of proof, since that arises at trial. The guidance relates to the pre-trial stage, including the way investigations are handled and potentially the decision to charge, although from press coverage it doesn't seem directed at that.
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    edited January 2015
    Plato said:

    FPT speaking of Marigolds or the lack of them

    Father of 26 gets new five-bedroom house and compensation after previous home deemed 'too small'
    Peter Rolfe, who has fathered 26 children by 15 different women, says he is baffled by the fuss and insists: 'I'm not living in a mansion'.
    telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11376551/Father-of-26-gets-new-five-bedroom-house-and-compensation-after-previous-home-deemed-too-small.html

    Umm...


    Peter Rolfe, 64, who receives more than £46,000 a year in benefits, was moved out of his old three-bedroom house on the Isle of White after telling his local council it was too small.

    Mr Rolfe, who has been married six times and has fathered children by 15 different women, was also awarded £1,000 compensation after the Local Government Ombudsman ruled his previous home had been too small for his needs.
    This is a result for the council... He wanted a 6 bedroom house!
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Last night's tied YG pegs back the Tory lead in this week's "part-ELBOW" so far to 0.2% (0.5% yesterday, 0.4% Tuesday). Libdems and Greens within 0.5% of each other.

    Con 32.8
    Lab 32.6
    UKIP 15.6
    LD 7.0
    Grn 6.5

    The detail of the weighted data actually put Labour 0.75% ahead yesterday!
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092


    as if you cannot prove you got consent: you are guilty.

    Says who?

    The new rules from the DPP.
    What's your source? Because the telegraph article that was being passed around doesn't say that.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Grandiose said:


    Just read the article about the change in rape laws. Completely disagree with the change, so much for "innocent until proven guilty".

    I know there are a lot of scumbags who are "getting away with it", but this is not the answer.

    It may well raise the conviction rate, but it will also raise the false conviction rate too. Except they won't be "false" in the eyes of the law, as if you cannot prove you got consent: you are guilty.

    That's not the effect of the change.

    “We want police and prosecutors to make sure they ask in every case where consent is the issue - [a] how did the suspect know the complainant was saying yes and [b] doing so freely and knowingly?” (my letters)

    As regards [a] this is the reasonable belief test already enshrined in the 2003 Act. A belief in consent must be informed by some conduct on behalf of the alleged victim.

    [b] is a change in priority, however. It has always been the case that the victim must have the freedom and capacity to consent. For example, there comes a point where someone is too drunk to consent. However the courts have been rather inconsistent about when this is reached (the headline case, Bree, the woman was practically paralytic on the floor yet could, apparently, have consented - but that hasn't gone for all cases). Thus in light of what hasn't been a great approach by the courts the CPS/DPP have stepped in, as far as the judging of evidence at the pre-trial stage, to ask the same question of consent [a] at point [b]. What grounds did the defendant have to believe the alleged victim was able to consent?

    It IS the effect of the change.

    "We want police and prosecutors to make sure they ask in every case where consent is the issue - how did the suspect know the complainant was saying yes and doing so freely and knowingly?" - Alison Saunders, the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP)

    (my bold)


    Men must prove a woman said 'Yes' under tough new rape rules



This discussion has been closed.