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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Scottish Independence Poll

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited June 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Scottish Independence Poll

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  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    clickbait for the cybernats..... well done TSE... :)
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Two scottish threads one after the other, you spoil us Mr Eagles
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    tim said:

    So Farage is now just waiting for the Tories to drop their commitment to wealthy pensioners benefits.

    Nice bit of Master Strategy from Osborne and Cameron there, when will they time it for do we think, my PB Tory benefit-junky friends?

    fear not tim, Dan Hodges is backing Ed.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013
    Oh dear, the tea party tories won't like this.

    It's obvious they wanted a thread on little Ed's blue labour welfare triangulation.

    Let them whine. It's good for them to get it out of their system before Cammie and the chumocracy start calling the more excitable tories swivel-eyed loons again. At least it's a step up from when he called the kippers fruitcakes and closet racists, ;)
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I was ambivalent before, but in the past few years Scottish nationalist threads have made me an avid supporter of Independence.

    I accept all of James Kelly and Mick Pork's arguments on the matter without reservation
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    I reckon the yes vote will be somewhere around 35-40%. Should growth in the economy continue into 2014 the chances of a Yes majority seem increasingly remote. In fact I don't see the Yes side achieving a majority anywhere other than the North East.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667
    edited June 2013

    tim said:

    So Farage is now just waiting for the Tories to drop their commitment to wealthy pensioners benefits.

    Nice bit of Master Strategy from Osborne and Cameron there, when will they time it for do we think, my PB Tory benefit-junky friends?

    fear not tim, Dan Hodges is backing Ed.
    I expect that pleased tim almost as much as Peter Cruddas winning his libel case against the Sunday Times - tim was such a sympathetic observer when the story broke.....

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jun/05/peter-cruddas-wins-sunday-times-libel
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546
    Oooops.....voted 70-80 when I meant 20-30. Sorry folks. Careless clicks cost lives and all that.

    But I've come here with a question which I hope the assembled experts on here might be able to help with. We elect our council in thirds, however we have boundary changes on the way, so will have an all out election next May on the new boundaries (all 3 member wards)

    Thereafter, we move back to elections by thirds. So in tpfkarville ward, 3 people will be elected in May, with only one up for election again in 2015. How is it decided which out of the 3 must face voters again the very next year, and who gets the 2/4 year term? Grateful if anyone can clarify this? Thank you.

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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Telegraph News ‏@TelegraphNews

    .@George_Osborne: Ed Miliband should should repay tax avoided on major donation http://soa.li/IWrxcMJ
    Amusing though labours stupidity is, it's a somewhat 'bold' master strategy presuming Osbrowne has actually bothered to look at the rather long list of tory donors and indeed Cammie's own posturing and situation on the subject.

    I'm sure the papers won't chase that up at all now he's made it open season, so he's perfectly safe.

    Or not. ;)

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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Mick_Pork,fear not,on the threads voting,I've just given Scotland my vote percentage for independence ;-)
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667
    BBC Breaking News: Eurozone economy will contract by 0.6% in 2013 but grow by 1.1% in 2014, European Central Bank forecasts

    I blame Osborne....
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    What is the SNP's policy on tuition fees after independence? Will they provide free uni education to the English, or to no-one?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667
    O/T - for some reason the ads I am getting on OGH site are now overwhelmingly American "Is Obama doing a good job? ". "Enter Canada with a DUI".....
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Will they provide free uni education to the English, or to no-one?"

    I take it you haven't seen the recent legal opinion?
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited June 2013
    The GOP's candidate for Lt. Governor (the number 2 official in the state) in Virginia claims that yoga is satanic:

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/06/virginia-lt-governor-candidate-yoga-is-satanic.html

    That'll help the female vote. And this in the swingiest of swing states.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    "Will they provide free uni education to the English, or to no-one?"

    I take it you haven't seen the recent legal opinion?

    No, I haven't. What is it?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,984
    tpfkar said:

    Oooops.....voted 70-80 when I meant 20-30. Sorry folks. Careless clicks cost lives and all that.

    But I've come here with a question which I hope the assembled experts on here might be able to help with. We elect our council in thirds, however we have boundary changes on the way, so will have an all out election next May on the new boundaries (all 3 member wards)

    Thereafter, we move back to elections by thirds. So in tpfkarville ward, 3 people will be elected in May, with only one up for election again in 2015. How is it decided which out of the 3 must face voters again the very next year, and who gets the 2/4 year term? Grateful if anyone can clarify this? Thank you.

    Normal practice is bottom of those elected goes first, ie only has a year to make the electorate realise how good they are.

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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "No, I haven't. What is it?"

    That it may be possible to secure an exemption from the EU.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667

    "Will they provide free uni education to the English, or to no-one?"

    I take it you haven't seen the recent legal opinion?

    "So, how could an independent Scotland charge foreign students, including those from the rest of the UK (rUK) for university education, while subsiding its own citizens for the same studies?

    The answer, set out in this legal advice, is detailed and complicated, but one thing is clear, it would not be easy.

    In fact, in the words of one source familiar with the advice, it would be "very, very difficult".

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-22718864
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    "No, I haven't. What is it?"

    That it may be possible to secure an exemption from the EU.

    Just for the English, or for all other nationalities?
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    In fact, in the words of one source familiar with the advice, it would be "very, very difficult".

    But possible.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    What is the SNP's policy on tuition fees after independence?

    If they get independence, who effing cares?? Who cares what the scots do about anything once they are cut loose?? It's their effing business.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Could we have a poll on what percentage of threads between now and autumn 2014 will be about Scottish independence?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,984
    edited June 2013
    tim said:

    So Farage is now just waiting for the Tories to drop their commitment to wealthy pensioners benefits.

    Nice bit of Master Strategy from Osborne and Cameron there, when will they time it for do we think, my PB Tory benefit-junky friends?

    Only problem with your pre-event gloating Tim, is that Cammie has sold the "all in it together" line and those of OAP's who don't describe themselves as wealthy look at the pain their children and grandchildren are enduring and think "why not"!

    For example, why not new Council Tax bands at £1m and £2m? There are very few, if any, impoverished widows living in and struggling to maintain, houses worth £2m.

    And if they have they've got wealthy families who can help.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667

    In fact, in the words of one source familiar with the advice, it would be "very, very difficult".

    But possible.

    "Other nations have tried and failed to do so.

    Austria, for example, wanted to introduce restrictions for non-nationals on higher education courses, but its policy was declared illegal.

    Similarly, Belgium failed to limit the numbers of non-nationals who could apply to Belgian medical courses, despite arguing that public health would be affected if insufficient doctors were retained in the country."
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667
    taffys said:

    What is the SNP's policy on tuition fees after independence?

    If they get independence, who effing cares?? Who cares what the scots do about anything once they are cut loose?? It's their effing business.

    Because there could be lots of free University education for rUK students in Scotland?
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    edited June 2013
    "Could we have a poll on what percentage of threads between now and autumn 2014 will be about Scottish independence?"

    And will they exceed the number of threads on vital matters such as "Edward Miliband's name change"? On past form, probably not.

    We can also be sure that Panelbase polls that are more favourable to Yes will be less reported here than Ipsos-Mori polls favourable to No, although that may or may not be related to TSE's "prominent pollster" chuckle chum.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @CarlottaVance

    A quick skim of the legal advice seems to be that the exemption would mean reserving places for Scots. Even if that gets through, it still means lots of English students studying thanks to the Scottish taxpayer. Maybe independence wouldn't be so bad after all.
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "A quick skim of the legal advice seems to be that the exemption would mean reserving places for Scots"

    That's an odd reading. It would mean reserving grants for those who have been resident in Scotland for a certain length of time, regardless of nationality.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Because there could be lots of free University education forrUK students in Scotland?

    If there is, there is, if there isn't there isn;t. Personally I wouldn't hold my breath

    Chances are that straight after Independence the Scots will want to play with the new trainset by doing things that p*ss the English off .Giving Christina Kirchner the freedom of Glasgow, making Anjem Choudhry their Ambassador in London, you know the sort of thing.

    I can't see them offering a bunch of middle class English kids a free education. Nor should they.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    Socrates said:
    The Daily Mash is great, takes the rise out of all sorts rather than just those they disagree with like their bitter & unfunny imitators

    My favourite was the one where men were glad to have been ripped off by ticket touts

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/website-praised-for-take-that-ticket-fraud-201106033903

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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150

    I reckon the yes vote will be somewhere around 35-40%. Should growth in the economy continue into 2014 the chances of a Yes majority seem increasingly remote. In fact I don't see the Yes side achieving a majority anywhere other than the North East.

    If growth makes the Tories recover that helps the independence side. Especially as UKIP will probably still do well in the Euros, so the combined effect will point to Britain leaving the EU. That makes independence within the EU the safe, conservative option and continued UK membership a leap into the unknown.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667

    "A quick skim of the legal advice seems to be that the exemption would mean reserving places for Scots"

    That's an odd reading. It would mean reserving grants for those who have been resident in Scotland for a certain length of time, regardless of nationality.

    "But even then, persuading the European courts that the solution outlined above was necessary might be difficult.

    The legal advice suggests it is "not sufficient to simply assert...that the Higher Education regime would become unsustainable in the absence of a residency requirement.

    Rather Scotland may have to prove that the "very existence of the service provided is imperilled".

    Other nations have tried and failed to do so."
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "But even then, persuading the European courts that the solution outlined above was necessary might be difficult."

    But possible.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667
    taffys said:

    I can't see them offering a bunch of middle class English kids a free education. Nor should they.

    They almost certainly don't want to - but if their "grants for 5 year residents " plan is declared illegal by the EU they may have to.

    It's "very, very difficult". ...
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,840

    Socrates said:
    One can encounter some absolutely dire discussions about "privilege" on the internet, usually amongst upper-middle class graduates from top universities. It's a rich person's version of the Three Yorkshiremen sketch. "You grew up White and gay. Bloody luxury, I was an Asian woman."
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    It's "very, very difficult". ...

    Oh, but so was retaking the Falklands, Carlotta. You're not "frit", are you?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    taffys said:

    I can't see them offering a bunch of middle class English kids a free education. Nor should they.

    They almost certainly don't want to - but if their "grants for 5 year residents " plan is declared illegal by the EU they may have to.

    It's "very, very difficult". ...
    so they haven't a clue and their just making it up to suit their stance of the moment. Same as ever.
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "so they haven't a clue and their just making it up to suit their stance of the moment. Same as ever."

    Were you bullied by a Scot Nat at school, Alan? There must be something behind all this anger and bitterness.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667

    It's "very, very difficult". ...

    Oh, but so was retaking the Falklands, Carlotta. You're not "frit", are you?

    But we hadn't given the Falklands to Argentina then said "we want them back now" - as Scotland has done with EU student fees....not sure your analogy helps you James...
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "But we hadn't given the Falklands to Argentina then said "we want them back now""

    Oh, I dunno. You had conceded the principle of leaseback.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    "so they haven't a clue and their just making it up to suit their stance of the moment. Same as ever."

    Were you bullied by a Scot Nat at school, Alan? There must be something behind all this anger and bitterness.

    My legal advisors tell me I can be next First minister of Scotland, but it will be very very difficult.
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "My legal advisors tell me I can be next First minister of Scotland, but it will be very very difficult."

    Set aside your devotion to Mike Nesbitt and I promise you it'll become a whole lot easier.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667

    "But we hadn't given the Falklands to Argentina then said "we want them back now""

    Oh, I dunno. You had conceded the principle of leaseback.

    Really? You must point me to the treaty......but I guess that will be "very very difficult" too.....
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Four Yorkshiremen, Mr. F.

    I've not really heard about this privilege-checking business. It sounds like encouraging people to censor themselves because they aren't downtrodden enough to have a valid opinion.
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Mr Nicholas Ridley, Minister of State at the Foreign Office, who is having talks with the islanders, apparently believes that a solution may be achieved by outright transfer of sovereignty, by transfer and lease back, by freezing the dispute for 25 years, or by taking what would be a drastic step and breaking off talks altogether.
    An outright transfer would be politically unacceptable. The lease-back idea, on similar lines as for Hongkong, is the one Whitehall has been suggesting behind the scenes for some time."


    http://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/112605

    Now please don't embarrass yourself by responding to this damning link with the words "that isn't a treaty". It isn't a badger either, and I didn't claim it was either.
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    carlcarl Posts: 750
    Mick_Pork said:

    Telegraph News ‏@TelegraphNews

    .@George_Osborne: Ed Miliband should should repay tax avoided on major donation http://soa.li/IWrxcMJ
    it's a somewhat 'bold' master strategy presuming Osbrowne has actually bothered to look at the rather long list of tory donors and indeed Cammie's own posturing and situation on the subject.



    Indeed. What could possibly go wrong?

    MSmithsonPB According to YouGov 58% of people now think the CON Party is "sleazy and disreputable", up from 48% a year ago.
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546
    Thanks very much @OldKingCole. If I've understood that right, if your party team gets in then you have a certain incentive to outperform your colleagues....
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Its very, very difficult.

    And very very inconsequential. If an independent Scotland fell foul of the EU, that is its affair. We all fall foul of the EU at some juncture, why should Scotland be any different?

    If the Scots want to operate a university policy that discriminates against English people because they are English that is also their affair. It's their decision, they can live with the consequences.

    If the Scots go independent I won;t care, just as I don;t care whether the North Korean university policy discriminates against the English because they are English.

    As it stands I care what happens in Scotland because its part of the country I live in. If it ceases to be a part of my country, I will care far, far less - if at all.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,282
    I have not seen the legal advice but I cannot see at all how a 5 year residence qualification could not fall foul of EU requirements of no indirect discrimination. How could such a provision not be deemed to favour resident Scots?

    I've got a better idea. If we all stay one country we can get around this....
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    DavidL said:

    I have not seen the legal advice but I cannot see at all how a 5 year residence qualification could not fall foul of EU requirements of no indirect discrimination. How could such a provision not be deemed to favour resident Scots?

    I've got a better idea. If we all stay one country we can get around this....

    based on past performance is there any evidence they've had legal advice ?
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "based on past performance is there any evidence they've had legal advice ?"

    What sort of names did he call you, Alan? Come on, it's time to purge this pain.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Actually talking about the Falklands, would they be part of any divorce? Would the scots want ten per cent? Would they want ten per cent of Gibraltar?

    I think such a carve up would be a bit too much for James Kelly's overweening sanctimony. I could easily imagine Scotland saying something like 'we want no part of these relics of the imperialist land grab of the past... blah, blah blah'

    But I could be wrong....
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Actually talking about the Falklands, would they be part of any divorce? Would the scots want ten per cent? Would they want ten per cent of Gibraltar?"

    Are those serious questions? I have a horrible feeling they are. Jesus.

    OK, just for you, here are the answers to your questions -

    1) No.

    2) No.

    3) No.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    "based on past performance is there any evidence they've had legal advice ?"

    What sort of names did he call you, Alan? Come on, it's time to purge this pain.

    "So I went in to collect my curry and while I was waiting, there was this guy sat beside me and he says he's a lawyer. So I tell him what I want to do about uni fees and he says he can't see why not, but it's not his area of specialism. It turns out he does conveyancing so I told him I might have a job for him next year and we agreed a fixed price of £1500 - now there's value. Then my Chicken Jalfrezi arrived so I had to go."
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    Go to the teachers, Alan. And keep going until you get someone to listen. You're not alone.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2336446/Theresa-May-Beggars-thieves-EU-flocking-streets-Britain.html

    Great comment!

    Whatever happened to our own beggars and thieves? They will all be voting UKIP to get their old jobs back.

    - Stu Pidd , Smarter than the ave DM reader, 06/6/2013 14:36

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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,984
    tim said:

    tim said:

    So Farage is now just waiting for the Tories to drop their commitment to wealthy pensioners benefits.

    Nice bit of Master Strategy from Osborne and Cameron there, when will they time it for do we think, my PB Tory benefit-junky friends?

    Only problem with your pre-event gloating Tim, is that Cammie has sold the "all in it together" line and those of OAP's who don't describe themselves as wealthy look at the pain their children and grandchildren are enduring and think "why not"!

    For example, why not new Council Tax bands at £1m and £2m? There are very few, if any, impoverished widows living in and struggling to maintain, houses worth £2m.

    And if they have they've got wealthy families who can help.

    There are very few, if any, impoverished widows living in and struggling to maintain, houses worth £2m.

    You'll have Charles on bleating about why his huge inflation gains are a gift from God and shouldn't be taxed if you aren't careful.

    On the pensioners front it's a difficult one to judge for Dave and George -do they say "well we've got growth now so you oldies have to pay"?, that would be a gift to Farage.
    Or do they rehash the "we're all in this together so you have to pay now after we featherbedded you and screwed your children and the disabled for five years" which sort of admits they featherbedded them and runs the risk of annoying everyone else.

    Against this background pensioners don't like Dave much, his ratings are a car crash among the over 65's and UKIP have peeled away almost a third of the 2010 Tory pensioner vote.

    But it may be one of those counterfactuals and none of this is to do with policy at all, if you're the sort of person who is scared that a family of Bulgarians are moving to live in your shed on New Years Day then maybe UKIP have got you until we have a nice summer or something anyway.



    Well I'm an OAP who doesn't expect to see Bulgarians living in his shed ..... although if they brought their wine-making skills to my parsnips ..... and anyway has never voted Tory and has absolutely no intention of voting UKIP. And neither, from the conversations I've had, have most of my friends. Except the one who was REALLY upset about gay marriage!

    So maybe I'm not "yer average"!

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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    John Rentoul isn't very impressed with Ed Miliband's policy commitment on housing:

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/06/06/destined-to-fail/

    He's too pessimistic in my view, but he has a point. In order to succeed, the Government would need to declare some redevelopment areas, with compulsory purchases of existing properties within those areas and redeveloping them so that they can accommodate more people in more useful units.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    taffys said:


    If they get independence, who effing cares?? Who cares what the scots do about anything once they are cut loose?? It's their effing business.

    There are quite a few policy areas where the decision to vote for independence or stance of an independent Scottish government can have significant implications for the rest of the UK. Take pensions - if Scotland votes for independence and private sector schemes with members on both sides of the new border are treated as cross-border schemes there will be significant implications for all members. You wont have a vote in the referendum but there are reasons why you should be interested in the outcome.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Neil That's why I'd vote for independence if I had the chance. I'm all in favour of more work for lawyers, especially if that additional work is front-end loaded (given my own career plans).
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,288
    I voted for 30-40%.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667

    Now please don't embarrass yourself by responding to this damning link with the words "that isn't a treaty". It isn't a badger either, and I didn't claim it was either.

    I'm not the one embarrassing myself by conflating student tuition fees with the Falklands.....but I expect you find that "very very difficult" to admit....,
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    edited June 2013
    "I'm not the one embarrassing myself by conflating student tuition fees with the Falklands.....but I expect you find that "very very difficult" to admit....,"

    Were the Falklands "very, very difficult" to retake or not, Carlotta?

    And talking of admissions, did you ever get round to apologising for misrepresenting Lucinda Creighton?
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    antifrank said:

    @Neil That's why I'd vote for independence if I had the chance. I'm all in favour of more work for lawyers, especially if that additional work is front-end loaded (given my own career plans).

    I'm sure you know plenty of lawyers and actuaries in Scotland who you could convince of the benefits of enlightened self interest.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    tpfkar said:

    Thanks very much @OldKingCole. If I've understood that right, if your party team gets in then you have a certain incentive to outperform your colleagues....

    Yup, that should add spice to the 'team' effort. As OKC says, the candidate topping the poll serves 4 years, the second 3 and the last 1 or 2, depending on when the off-year is.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667
    antifrank said:

    John Rentoul isn't very impressed with Ed Miliband's policy commitment on housing:

    Rentoul does make a fair point which I have yet to see anyone address:

    "But there is a reason why this popular policy has not been pursued by the desperate-to-please governments of Blair, Brown and Cameron. All the houses that can be built in places where people want houses have been built. The rest is:

    1 green belt,

    2 nice green bits full of nimbys, local councils and planning laws, or

    3 run-down parts of north Birmingham and places further north where people don’t want to live."

    Actually north Birmingham has some nice spots....

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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    edited June 2013
    O/T - I understand from the previous thread that Sir Brian Coleman Bt, CDM and Bar, the Brutal, Bestial Baron of Barnet has had a life ban imposed on him by the Conservative Party.

    But, Brian, all is not lost. Take solace. By the powers vested in me (and Neil), I herewith declare and proclaim you to be admitted into glorious nobility of the pbTories. (But there is no obligation to breathe on us bearing in mind Mr. Fear's observations).
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "But, Brian, all is not lost. Take solace. By the powers vested in me (and Neil), I herewith declare and proclaim you to be admitted into glorious nobility of the pbTories."

    That's impossible. He's been banned. Have you been banned from the Tories? No. Has Neil been banned from the Tory wing of the Green Party? No. Has Plato been banned from the guild of libertarian floating voters with fiscal conservative twists? No.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @JohnO

    If Brian is allowed to join the ranks then I'll do whatever it takes (lose a bet to tim?!) to resign from PB Toryhood!

    Must keep an eye out on the blog to see what the reaction will be.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    @Neil

    You don't fool me....you're just playing hard to get!
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Difficult to predict because the time the referendum comes around who knows what the voter pool will be ?

    Prisoners ? Over 12s ? Tourists ? Those flying over Scottish airspace within +/- 7 days of the vote, dogs ,cats , Donald Trump ?

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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @JohnO

    As hard to get as an Arsenal striker in the company of Brian Coleman. Euw.
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Difficult to predict because the time the referendum comes around who knows what the voter pool will be ?

    Prisoners ?"


    Unlikely, but let's hope so.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667
    Oh look! Mr Kelly belittles the Donside Labour candidate's focus on the Haudagain roundabout...and what does the BBC Scotland Political Editor, Brian Taylor have to say:

    "At the heart of the Donside constituency sits the charmingly named Haudagain roundabout. Charming name, hideous challenge.

    It has been voted the worst such circle in the UK. (Best was one in Hemel Hempstead, wittily billed "The Magic Roundabout".)

    "But it is conceivable that the candidate with the most convincing plan for tackling this entrenched problem will gain a degree of voter support."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-22771838

    Finger on the pulse, eh James?
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    "Difficult to predict because the time the referendum comes around who knows what the voter pool will be ?

    Prisoners ?"


    Unlikely, but let's hope so.

    Prisoners would surely prove more receptive to Salmond's call than Scotland's 16 and 17 year olds.

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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited June 2013
    John Rentoul isn't very impressed with Ed Miliband's policy commitment on housing
    antifrank said:

    John Rentoul isn't very impressed with Ed Miliband's policy commitment on housing:

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/06/06/destined-to-fail/

    He's too pessimistic in my view, but he has a point. In order to succeed, the Government would need to declare some redevelopment areas, with compulsory purchases of existing properties within those areas and redeveloping them so that they can accommodate more people in more useful units.

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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    Don't worry, Carlotta. Most people will have been capable of reading the actual words in my post even if they seem to have gone over your head.
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Prisoners would surely prove more receptive to Salmond's call than Scotland's 16 and 17 year olds."

    Even more? Crikey.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    "Difficult to predict because the time the referendum comes around who knows what the voter pool will be ?

    Prisoners ?"


    Unlikely, but let's hope so.

    I wouldn't use the Mel Gibson "you'll never take our freedom" approach with them.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    "Prisoners would surely prove more receptive to Salmond's call than Scotland's 16 and 17 year olds."

    Even more? Crikey.

    Even less would be very , very difficult.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    edited June 2013
    Scots independance won't happen because Scots love voting Scottish Labour to 'keep the Tories out'. No I don't think it makes sense either when they can go full independence (And CON is an irrelevance north of the border anyway) . They also have the notion that they would lose cash when actually it would make no bloody difference whatsoever.

    That is the desperately sad truth of this entire debate.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Time to end the post war settlement on the green belt, methinks.

    antifrank said:

    John Rentoul isn't very impressed with Ed Miliband's policy commitment on housing:

    Rentoul does make a fair point which I have yet to see anyone address:

    "But there is a reason why this popular policy has not been pursued by the desperate-to-please governments of Blair, Brown and Cameron. All the houses that can be built in places where people want houses have been built. The rest is:

    1 green belt,

    2 nice green bits full of nimbys, local councils and planning laws, or

    3 run-down parts of north Birmingham and places further north where people don’t want to live."

    Actually north Birmingham has some nice spots....

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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Even less would be very , very difficult."

    Hardly. The poll that you've become so obsessed with was self-evidently flawed because it asked adults in the same household how they planned to vote in the referendum, and the results bore no resemblance to recent polling. Correcting for that huge error, the Yes side would have support from about 39-45% of 14-17 year olds.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    As we have seen from HS, new airports and windfarms its a piece of cake for central government to ignore local planning concerns.

    Of course Labour turn to the stick of central dictat without thinking of the carrot - it is what they do - but usually fail.


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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Johann Lamont has been keeping a low profile. Is she hiding?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    I voted 100%, need the 'polls' to be skewed more for independence so there might be a figment of some resonable odds to back staying in closer to the event.

    1/10 will be such a low return.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    tim said:

    antifrank said:

    John Rentoul isn't very impressed with Ed Miliband's policy commitment on housing:

    Rentoul does make a fair point which I have yet to see anyone address:

    "But there is a reason why this popular policy has not been pursued by the desperate-to-please governments of Blair, Brown and Cameron. All the houses that can be built in places where people want houses have been built. The rest is:

    1 green belt,

    2 nice green bits full of nimbys, local councils and planning laws, or

    3 run-down parts of north Birmingham and places further north where people don’t want to live."

    Actually north Birmingham has some nice spots....

    A council of despair that implies all of the govts planning stuff was a nonsense and NIMBY's can hold the country to ransom over rail and airports?

    It's also one reason why we need new towns

    But first off start cutting funds from councils that refuse to build and cut housing benefit bills, they'll find land magically if the choice is having their knackers cut off
    You do realize, don't you, that many - actually I think a clear majority (though I don't have the figures) - Councils no longer own housing stock which under Large Scale Voluntary Transfer, promoted by both Tory and Labour governments, are now owned by RSLs?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    "Even less would be very , very difficult."

    Hardly. The poll that you've become so obsessed with was self-evidently flawed because it asked adults in the same household how they planned to vote in the referendum, and the results bore no resemblance to recent polling. Correcting for that huge error, the Yes side would have support from about 39-45% of 14-17 year olds.

    Not even all current 14 year olds will be voting in the referendum.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Time to end the post war settlement on the green belt, methinks.

    Either that, or the north a more attractive place for people to live, companies to set up etc.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667
    Iain Martin on Eds Big Speech:

    Miliband......proposes more jobs, higher pay and lower rents. Why did no one think of this before?"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100220640/ed-milibands-big-speech-on-welfare-will-make-almost-no-difference-to-anything/
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    "Even less would be very , very difficult."

    Hardly. The poll that you've become so obsessed with was self-evidently flawed because it asked adults in the same household how they planned to vote in the referendum, and the results bore no resemblance to recent polling. Correcting for that huge error, the Yes side would have support from about 39-45% of 14-17 year olds.

    It's sad that you're reduced to denigrating Edinburgh University's standards. The University's survey merely confirmed previous polls on Scottish children's voting intentions in next year's referendum.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    For decades, jobs and economic growth have been concentrated in the south east, so that is where the demand for housing exists.
    taffys said:

    Time to end the post war settlement on the green belt, methinks.

    Either that, or the north a more attractive place for people to live, companies to set up etc.

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    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649
    @neil @anti-frank

    Does anyone know what "full funding" under IORP I would actually look like? This got a bit lost during the IORP II farrago. I guess a buy-out funding level would be the starting point?
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    edited June 2013
    "It's sad that you're reduced to denigrating Edinburgh University's standards."

    I'm not. I'm denigrating your reading comprehension skills. I said nothing at all about Edinburgh University.

    "merely confirmed previous polls on Scottish children's voting intentions in next year's referendum."

    Let's see the links, then.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,667
    Isabel Hardman on the next Tory row:

    "‘This has done for our pay rise, hasn’t it?’ one MP muttered earlier this week after the lobbying scandal broke. I suggested on Monday that yet another row over politicians behaving badly will make it even more difficult for David Cameron to endorse a pay rise for MPs. This is a row that is just waiting in the wings to join the Central School of Conservative Drama.....

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/06/pay-the-next-big-tory-row/
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    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649
    tim said:

    Anyone know what's going on with Gove and the child porn teacher?
    Looks like Mr Messiah may have annoyed the papers who worship at the feet of the gargoyle

    Can't say that I have followed it, but one imagines it to have been the exercise of an administrative function by one of the Minister's famously loyal civil servants?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    F1: just a reminder that P1 and P2 are at 3pm and 7pm respectively. P3 ends at 3pm, so the pre-qualifying piece will hopefully be up shortly thereafter. I'm not intending to double-post , so the pre-qualifying piece will only be appearing on http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/
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