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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Nighthawks is now open

SystemSystem Posts: 12,183
edited June 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Nighthawks is now open

Why not relax, and converse into the night on the day’s events in PB NightHawks.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,962
    I hope it's not the NRM in York that closes, I've never actually been there!
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    I hope it's not the NRM in York that closes, I've never actually been there!

    I was gutted when Potter's Museum of Curiosities closed. All that Victorian taxidermy stuff is back in vogue.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/howaboutthat/8059876/Walter-Potters-Museum-of-Curiosities-bizarre-Victorian-collection-of-stuffed-animals-goes-on-show-again.html
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    EU put Euro before Greece in Greek bailout shock.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/10101660/EU-put-eurozone-safety-before-Greece-during-bailout-IMF-report-claims.html

    "The internal report on the handling of the Greek crisis has detailed a catalogue of errors, which led to the IMF breaking three out of four of its own rules relating to lending money to bankrupt countries.

    It also admits that the impact of austerity policies in Greece was badly underestimated as EU institutions and leaders tried to save their political skins at the expense of the Greek economy.
    The report, leaked to the Wall Street Journal, explained that in 2010 the IMF lent €36bn (£30.5bn) to Greece despite a risk “so significant that staff were unable to vouch that public debt was sustainable”."
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    TGOHF said:

    EU put Euro before Greece in Greek bailout shock.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/10101660/EU-put-eurozone-safety-before-Greece-during-bailout-IMF-report-claims.html

    "The internal report on the handling of the Greek crisis has detailed a catalogue of errors, which led to the IMF breaking three out of four of its own rules relating to lending money to bankrupt countries.

    It also admits that the impact of austerity policies in Greece was badly underestimated as EU institutions and leaders tried to save their political skins at the expense of the Greek economy.
    The report, leaked to the Wall Street Journal, explained that in 2010 the IMF lent €36bn (£30.5bn) to Greece despite a risk “so significant that staff were unable to vouch that public debt was sustainable”."

    The EU in a nutshell: thieves, rogues and charlatans!

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,850
    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. K, that's an outrageous slur against rogues and thieves.

    Caught part of a Sky News report about the EU (linked to its poll). Hopefully the previous section was more balanced, because the bit I saw was all about what we'd lose. Nothing about costs or loss of sovereignty.

    Reminds me of the BBC News at Ten last night. Whilst Landale did say at the very end that more Conservative peers backed gay marriage than voted against all 3 speakers against in his video piece were Conservatives, whereas the pro-speakers were Labour and 2 Crossbenchers. Hardly a fair reflection of how the voting stacked up.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @pamela_nash: Salmond says #Indyref must be made by Scots, in Scotland...yet refuses to debate with @TogetherDarling ;only willing to debate with PM.Hmmm.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @Scott_P

    Salmond won't have a debate with Alistair Darling? What a coward!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Socrates said:

    @Scott_P

    Salmond won't have a debate with Alistair Darling? What a coward!

    At the risk of stirring up a severe case of last wordism:

    James Kelly - FPT

    Saying you are tedious is not as good as acknowledging you're right. It's just saying you're tedious.

    Complaining that only a "London Establishment" figure is likely to be PM is possibly right (although in his dreams Nigel Farage might hope otherwise). That doesn't mean that it is wrong that in a national debate it should focus on the potential leaders of the country.

    Your claim that because we have a parliamentary system Salmond should be represented in a debate is simply wrong. If we have a true parliamentary system, then we shouldn't have debates at all: the only thing that should matter are local people's views of their local candidates. But that's simply not the case.

    So, off the hobby-horse and accept that the SNP isn't directly relevant to the mass of voters in the UK. Frankly, if Scotland votes for independence: good luck, we'll survive perfectly well without you. And if you vote to stay: great, good to have you.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,962

    I hope it's not the NRM in York that closes, I've never actually been there!

    You should go; every steam enthusiast should make a pilgrimage to the NRM. Having said that, I haven't been for over ten years, and I also want to visit the annexe at Shildon.

    The museum has been terribly mismanaged though. Although their digitisation efforts of their archives are mostly praiseworthy.

    A Nighthawks question for you: what railway first happened at Derby, and was noticed for six months?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,962

    I hope it's not the NRM in York that closes, I've never actually been there!

    You should go; every steam enthusiast should make a pilgrimage to the NRM. Having said that, I haven't been for over ten years, and I also want to visit the annexe at Shildon.

    The museum has been terribly mismanaged though. Although their digitisation efforts of their archives are mostly praiseworthy.

    A Nighthawks question for you: what railway first happened at Derby, and was noticed for six months?
    Steel rails instead of wrought iron hitherto used??
  • O/t Apols if posted before.
    Tony Gallagher ‏@gallaghereditor 22m

    Major tax avoidance row about to hit Labour Party & Ed Miliband. Full details in the @Telegraph tmrw
    Tony Gallagher ‏@gallaghereditor 14m

    Gift by Labour's biggest new donor John Mills structured to avoid £1.5m tax bill - and the party knew all about it
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Ruairi O Bradaigh dead.

    One of those people you are surprised to hear was still alive when their death is announced. History wont be kind to him.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,441
    a C19 relic that made it into the C21.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,962

    I hope it's not the NRM in York that closes, I've never actually been there!

    You should go; every steam enthusiast should make a pilgrimage to the NRM. Having said that, I haven't been for over ten years, and I also want to visit the annexe at Shildon.

    The museum has been terribly mismanaged though. Although their digitisation efforts of their archives are mostly praiseworthy.

    A Nighthawks question for you: what railway first happened at Derby, and was noticed for six months?
    Steel rails instead of wrought iron hitherto used??
    Yep, that's it. The work of Robert Forester Mushet in 1857.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Forester_Mushet

    Various versions of the story exist, one of which is that no railway wanted to try the experimental rail (at the time rails were short, and had to be turned at regular intervals to even out wear). He therefore bribed a railway ganger to place his rail instead of a wrought iron one, and it lasted for a long time on a busy stretch of track. After which steel rails suddenly became possible.

    Some parts of the story seem dubious to me, but it sounds fun!

    I would ask more questions (for instance what did the Midland Railway do a few years earlier, which effects British railway passengers to this day?), but this is a politics blog...
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Syria: Congratulations to Assad, Iran, Russia & Hizbollah.

    A week or so ago I reported on the impending attack by Assad's forces on Al Quasir, a town that sits on the Strategic corridors west and North. Much focused on Assad's need to get hold of a town that helps control access to the highways for his own communications. For the rebels the town has similar significance, helping then secure their own supply routes from Lebanon, routes that now are facing a bit of a choking in the central region as Assads forces look to be on the verge of controlling the town.

    Recent fighting has set the rebels back in Homs and Damascus. Assad's favoured infantry forces, Hizbollah have also turned up near Syria's largest city, Aleppo, in the Golan area and Deraa province as Assad seeks to hit rebels in areas where they are much stronger.

    For the rebels the threat constitutes the biggest crisis since the early days of the insurgency when it threatened to fade away due to shortages in kit and lack of organisation.

    This puts the increasing French and British pressure on Washington to back the transfer of weapons to rebels into context. Everyone knows that the current situation may represent a critical phase in deciding how long this war will go on.

    Obama isn't for budging, at least yet, refusing to admit the evidence of chemical weapons use (even though he's been presented with it by his own security people). More proof is the call but its essentially false. They know the story but the President got himself caught on his own hook by suggesting it would be a game changer. Now its proven not to be both sides can feel free to use it on a small to medium scale.

    For the West the threat of strategic defeat in the region now actually comes on the radar for the first time in quite a while. Assad survives after all the calls for him to go, the US looks incredibly indecisive as its spent its time turning on and off taps off supply, including persuading its Saudi and Qatari counterparts to do the same.

    Moreover US policy espoused by the current administration to isolate Iran will look stupid if the Iranians are on the winning side.

    On the battlefield, Assad has a way to go (latest Israeli assessments is that he holds 40% of territory (much of it contested) though he has the majority of the interesting parts, and his Hizbollah supply of bodies does have a bottom to that well.

    For the West though. decision time is coming. Rumours have it the conference sponsored by the USA and Russia looks a sham with no one genuinely willing to make compromises getting anywhere near suiting the other. Russia, which long believed that Western intervention was inevitable seems to considering now that it isnt due to lack of backbone.

    Ironically the rebels largest outside assistance in the immediate may be Israel, who apparently haven't bought Russian threats not to attack Assad's regime again.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,962
    Y0kel said:

    Syria: Congratulations to Assad, Iran, Russia & Hizbollah.

    A week or so ago I reported on the impending attack by Assad's forces on Al Quasir, a town that sits on the Strategic corridors west and North. Much focused on Assad's need to get hold of a town that helps control access to the highways for his own communications. For the rebels the town has similar significance, helping then secure their own supply routes from Lebanon, routes that now are facing a bit of a choking in the central region as Assads forces look to be on the verge of controlling the town.

    Recent fighting has set the rebels back in Homs and Damascus. Assad's favoured infantry forces, Hizbollah have also turned up near Syria's largest city, Aleppo, in the Golan area and Deraa province as Assad seeks to hit rebels in areas where they are much stronger.

    For the rebels the threat constitutes the biggest crisis since the early days of the insurgency when it threatened to fade away due to shortages in kit and lack of organisation.

    This puts the increasing French and British pressure on Washington to back the transfer of weapons to rebels into context. Everyone knows that the current situation may represent a critical phase in deciding how long this war will go on.

    Obama isn't for budging, at least yet, refusing to admit the evidence of chemical weapons use (even though he's been presented with it by his own security people). More proof is the call but its essentially false. They know the story but the President got himself caught on his own hook by suggesting it would be a game changer. Now its proven not to be both sides can feel free to use it on a small to medium scale.

    For the West the threat of strategic defeat in the region now actually comes on the radar for the first time in quite a while. Assad survives after all the calls for him to go, the US looks incredibly indecisive as its spent its time turning on and off taps off supply, including persuading its Saudi and Qatari counterparts to do the same.

    Moreover US policy espoused by the current administration to isolate Iran will look stupid if the Iranians are on the winning side.

    On the battlefield, Assad has a way to go (latest Israeli assessments is that he holds 40% of territory (much of it contested) though he has the majority of the interesting parts, and his Hizbollah supply of bodies does have a bottom to that well.

    For the West though. decision time is coming. Rumours have it the conference sponsored by the USA and Russia looks a sham with no one genuinely willing to make compromises getting anywhere near suiting the other. Russia, which long believed that Western intervention was inevitable seems to considering now that it isnt due to lack of backbone.

    Ironically the rebels largest outside assistance in the immediate may be Israel, who apparently haven't bought Russian threats not to attack Assad's regime again.

    Would it be in the West's interests to gift Syria to an Islamist regime?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Colour me surprised:

    . http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/747fe80e-cdcc-11e2-8313-00144feab7de.html#ixzz2VNSgjpqN

    Paris is threatening to block EU-US trade talks that Britain wants to launch at this month’s G8 summit in Northern Ireland if French demands to exclude cultural industries such as music and film are not met.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited June 2013

    Y0kel said:

    Syria: Congratulations to Assad, Iran, Russia & Hizbollah.

    A week or so ago I reported on the impending attack by Assad's forces on Al Quasir, a town that sits on the Strategic corridors west and North. Much focused on Assad's need to get hold of a town that helps control access to the highways for his own communications. For the rebels the town has similar significance, helping then secure their own supply routes from Lebanon, routes that now are facing a bit of a choking in the central region as Assads forces look to be on the verge of controlling the town.

    Recent fighting has set the rebels back in Homs and Damascus. Assad's favoured infantry forces, Hizbollah have also turned up near Syria's largest city, Aleppo, in the Golan area and Deraa province as Assad seeks to hit rebels in areas where they are much stronger.

    For the rebels the threat constitutes the biggest crisis since the early days of the insurgency when it threatened to fade away due to shortages in kit and lack of organisation.

    This puts the increasing French and British pressure on Washington to back the transfer of weapons to rebels into context. Everyone knows that the current situation may represent a critical phase in deciding how long this war will go on.

    Obama isn't for budging, at least yet, refusing to admit the evidence of chemical weapons use (even though he's been presented with it by his own security people). More proof is the call but its essentially false. They know the story but the President got himself caught on his own hook by suggesting it would be a game changer. Now its proven not to be both sides can feel free to use it on a small to medium scale.

    For the West the threat of strategic defeat in the region now actually comes on the radar for the first time in quite a while. Assad survives after all the calls for him to go, the US looks incredibly indecisive as its spent its time turning on and off taps off supply, including persuading its Saudi and Qatari counterparts to do the same.

    Moreover US policy espoused by the current administration to isolate Iran will look stupid if the Iranians are on the winning side.

    On the battlefield, Assad has a way to go (latest Israeli assessments is that he holds 40% of territory (much of it contested) though he has the majority of the interesting parts, and his Hizbollah supply of bodies does have a bottom to that well.

    For the West though. decision time is coming. Rumours have it the conference sponsored by the USA and Russia looks a sham with no one genuinely willing to make compromises getting anywhere near suiting the other. Russia, which long believed that Western intervention was inevitable seems to considering now that it isnt due to lack of backbone.

    Ironically the rebels largest outside assistance in the immediate may be Israel, who apparently haven't bought Russian threats not to attack Assad's regime again.

    Would it be in the West's interests to gift Syria to an Islamist regime?
    If they fear that, why don't they just shut the f**k up and stay out of it then instead of farting about like the Grand Old Duke of York.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,962
    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    Syria: Congratulations to Assad, Iran, Russia & Hizbollah.

    A week or so ago I reported on the impending attack by Assad's forces on Al Quasir, a town that sits on the Strategic corridors west and North. Much focused on Assad's need to get hold of a town that helps control access to the highways for his own communications. For the rebels the town has similar significance, helping then secure their own supply routes from Lebanon, routes that now are facing a bit of a choking in the central region as Assads forces look to be on the verge of controlling the town.

    Recent fighting has set the rebels back in Homs and Damascus. Assad's favoured infantry forces, Hizbollah have also turned up near Syria's largest city, Aleppo, in the Golan area and Deraa province as Assad seeks to hit rebels in areas where they are much stronger.

    For the rebels the threat constitutes the biggest crisis since the early days of the insurgency when it threatened to fade away due to shortages in kit and lack of organisation.

    This puts the increasing French and British pressure on Washington to back the transfer of weapons to rebels into context. Everyone knows that the current situation may represent a critical phase in deciding how long this war will go on.

    Obama isn't for budging, at least yet, refusing to admit the evidence of chemical weapons use (even though he's been presented with it by his own security people). More proof is the call but its essentially false. They know the story but the President got himself caught on his own hook by suggesting it would be a game changer. Now its proven not to be both sides can feel free to use it on a small to medium scale.

    For the West the threat of strategic defeat in the region now actually comes on the radar for the first time in quite a while. Assad survives after all the calls for him to go, the US looks incredibly indecisive as its spent its time turning on and off taps off supply, including persuading its Saudi and Qatari counterparts to do the same.

    Moreover US policy espoused by the current administration to isolate Iran will look stupid if the Iranians are on the winning side.

    On the battlefield, Assad has a way to go (latest Israeli assessments is that he holds 40% of territory (much of it contested) though he has the majority of the interesting parts, and his Hizbollah supply of bodies does have a bottom to that well.

    For the West though. decision time is coming. Rumours have it the conference sponsored by the USA and Russia looks a sham with no one genuinely willing to make compromises getting anywhere near suiting the other. Russia, which long believed that Western intervention was inevitable seems to considering now that it isnt due to lack of backbone.

    Ironically the rebels largest outside assistance in the immediate may be Israel, who apparently haven't bought Russian threats not to attack Assad's regime again.

    Would it be in the West's interests to gift Syria to an Islamist regime?
    If they fear that, why don't they just shut the f**k up and stay out of it then instead of farting about like the Grand Old Duke of York.
    You seem to be taking sides though.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited June 2013
    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    Syria: Congratulations to Assad, Iran, Russia & Hizbollah.

    A week or so ago I reported on the impending attack by Assad's forces on Al Quasir, a town that sits on the Strategic corridors west and North. Much focused on Assad's need to get hold of a town that helps control access to the highways for his own communications. For the rebels the town has similar significance, helping then secure their own supply routes from Lebanon, routes that now are facing a bit of a choking in the central region as Assads forces look to be on the verge of controlling the town.

    Recent fighting has set the rebels back in Homs and Damascus. Assad's favoured infantry forces, Hizbollah have also turned up near Syria's largest city, Aleppo, in the Golan area and Deraa province as Assad seeks to hit rebels in areas where they are much stronger.

    For the rebels the threat constitutes the biggest crisis since the early days of the insurgency when it threatened to fade away due to shortages in kit and lack of organisation.

    This puts the increasing French and British pressure on Washington to back the transfer of weapons to rebels into context. Everyone knows that the current situation may represent a critical phase in deciding how long this war will go on.

    Obama isn't for budging, at least yet, refusing to admit the evidence of chemical weapons use (even though he's been presented with it by his own security people). More proof is the call but its essentially false. They know the story but the President got himself caught on his own hook by suggesting it would be a game changer. Now its proven not to be both sides can feel free to use it on a small to medium scale.

    For the West the threat of strategic defeat in the region now actually comes on the radar for the first time in quite a while. Assad survives after all the calls for him to go, the US looks incredibly indecisive as its spent its time turning on and off taps off supply, including persuading its Saudi and Qatari counterparts to do the same.

    Moreover US policy espoused by the current administration to isolate Iran will look stupid if the Iranians are on the winning side.

    On the battlefield, Assad has a way to go (latest Israeli assessments is that he holds 40% of territory (much of it contested) though he has the majority of the interesting parts, and his Hizbollah supply of bodies does have a bottom to that well.

    For the West though. decision time is coming. Rumours have it the conference sponsored by the USA and Russia looks a sham with no one genuinely willing to make compromises getting anywhere near suiting the other. Russia, which long believed that Western intervention was inevitable seems to considering now that it isnt due to lack of backbone.

    Ironically the rebels largest outside assistance in the immediate may be Israel, who apparently haven't bought Russian threats not to attack Assad's regime again.

    Would it be in the West's interests to gift Syria to an Islamist regime?
    If they fear that, why don't they just shut the f**k up and stay out of it then instead of farting about like the Grand Old Duke of York.
    It looks like the dilettantes have just handed Hezbollah another victory.

  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    Syria: Congratulations to Assad, Iran, Russia & Hizbollah.

    A week or so ago I reported on the impending attack by Assad's forces on Al Quasir, a town that sits on the Strategic corridors west and North. Much focused on Assad's need to get hold of a town that helps control access to the highways for his own communications. For the rebels the town has similar significance, helping then secure their own supply routes from Lebanon, routes that now are facing a bit of a choking in the central region as Assads forces look to be on the verge of controlling the town.

    Recent fighting has set the rebels back in Homs and Damascus. Assad's favoured infantry forces, Hizbollah have also turned up near Syria's largest city, Aleppo, in the Golan area and Deraa province as Assad seeks to hit rebels in areas where they are much stronger.

    For the rebels the threat constitutes the biggest crisis since the early days of the insurgency when it threatened to fade away due to shortages in kit and lack of organisation.

    This puts the increasing French and British pressure on Washington to back the transfer of weapons to rebels into context. Everyone knows that the current situation may represent a critical phase in deciding how long this war will go on.

    Obama isn't for budging, at least yet, refusing to admit the evidence of chemical weapons use (even though he's been presented with it by his own security people). More proof is the call but its essentially false. They know the story but the President got himself caught on his own hook by suggesting it would be a game changer. Now its proven not to be both sides can feel free to use it on a small to medium scale.

    For the West the threat of strategic defeat in the region now actually comes on the radar for the first time in quite a while. Assad survives after all the calls for him to go, the US looks incredibly indecisive as its spent its time turning on and off taps off supply, including persuading its Saudi and Qatari counterparts to do the same.

    Moreover US policy espoused by the current administration to isolate Iran will look stupid if the Iranians are on the winning side.

    On the battlefield, Assad has a way to go (latest Israeli assessments is that he holds 40% of territory (much of it contested) though he has the majority of the interesting parts, and his Hizbollah supply of bodies does have a bottom to that well.

    For the West though. decision time is coming. Rumours have it the conference sponsored by the USA and Russia looks a sham with no one genuinely willing to make compromises getting anywhere near suiting the other. Russia, which long believed that Western intervention was inevitable seems to considering now that it isnt due to lack of backbone.

    Ironically the rebels largest outside assistance in the immediate may be Israel, who apparently haven't bought Russian threats not to attack Assad's regime again.

    Would it be in the West's interests to gift Syria to an Islamist regime?
    If they fear that, why don't they just shut the f**k up and stay out of it then instead of farting about like the Grand Old Duke of York.
    You seem to be taking sides though.
    And?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Donor John Mills’s gift to Labour avoided tax bill of £1.5m

    The Labour Party has helped its biggest financial backer avoid tax worth up to £1.5 million on its largest donation so far this year.

    John Mills gave the party shares in his shopping channel company, JML, valued at £1.65 million in January. In an interview with The Telegraph, Mr Mills said that the donation was made in shares rather than cash so the tax on the deal would be significantly reduced.

    Describing the donation as “tax efficient”, he said the form of the donation was agreed with figures in Labour’s fund-raising team.

    Mr Mills said that if he had given £1.65 million from his own income he would have had to pay nearly half of that sum to the taxman.

    Asked why he made the donations in shares, Mr Mills said: “To be honest with you, it is the most tax efficient way of doing this.

    “Because, otherwise, you get no tax relief on donations to political parties for understandable reasons.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10102190/Donor-John-Millss-gift-to-Labour-avoided-tax-bill-of-1.5m.html
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    I'm currently reading Charles Moore's excellent Thatcher biography. On p.313 is the following quote from Henry Kissinger:

    "...Every other politician I knew said that in order to win elections you had to win the centre. [Mrs Thatcher's] position was that you have to articulate your position as clearly as you can and the centre will come over to you."
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited June 2013
    @SeanT

    We sat on our hands so long that the radicals overtook the moderates for control of the insurgency movement.

    However, at this point I feel that we need to screw Assad, because otherwise chemical weapons will be used in conflicts the world over with impunity.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2013
    What's happening in Syria at the moment is probably a good guide to what human life was like for 99% of its existence — (although not in terms of weaponry, of course).
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013
    Socrates said:

    @Scott_P

    Salmond won't have a debate with Alistair Darling? What a coward!

    Cammie's the coward since he pledged to resist Scottish independence with 'everything we've got' and wants to hide behind Darling. Though let us not forget Brown helpfully waded in and thought he should be right in the middle of all this with the amusingly named "United with Labour" splinter group of the No campaign.

    So when Cammie bottles out of debating Farage you'll be calling Farage a coward will you?

    LOL

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,850
    Mr. T, it's also worth mentioning that whilst many rebels will be genuine freedom fighters it's certain some are effectively Al-Qaeda. It'd be insane to arm them.

    Before the war really got going, I remember a news piece about Christians in Syria. Some feared that they'd end up being oppressed (more oppressed?) under any new regime because it'd be more theocratic than the secular dictatorship of Assad.

    Not that Assad's a good guy, of course.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Colour me surprised:

    . http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/747fe80e-cdcc-11e2-8313-00144feab7de.html#ixzz2VNSgjpqN

    Paris is threatening to block EU-US trade talks that Britain wants to launch at this month’s G8 summit in Northern Ireland if French demands to exclude cultural industries such as music and film are not met.

    Yet another case of the europhiles' arguments going up in smoke. This time it's the one that having all the Europeans behind us means we can get a better deal. In reality, it just means we need to make concessions to the other side so the French can get theirs.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Re the shares gift to the Labour party as a tax efficient means of donating - surely one concern by a company being part owned by a political party and the party having that shareholding as a major asset in their balance sheet is the potential conflict of interest it could create between a party in power etc.

    It's one thing for individual MP's to own shares of course but an actual 'party' shareholding is surely a more material risk? Is this unique and if so, might that be for good reasons that it hasn't been done before?

    The obvious issue is the tax planning and his words that "“To be honest with you, it is the most tax efficient way of doing this. “Because, otherwise, you get no tax relief on donations to political parties for understandable reasons.

    As an IFA, I agree it's a sensible route to donate but politically it must be hypocritical in the extreme mustn't it?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,962
    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    Syria: Congratulations to Assad, Iran, Russia & Hizbollah.

    A week or so ago I reported on the impending attack by Assad's forces on Al Quasir, a town that sits on the Strategic corridors west and North. Much focused on Assad's need to get hold of a town that helps control access to the highways for his own communications. For the rebels the town has similar significance, helping then secure their own supply routes from Lebanon, routes that now are facing a bit of a choking in the central region as Assads forces look to be on the verge of controlling the town.

    Recent fighting has set the rebels back in Homs and Damascus. Assad's favoured infantry forces, Hizbollah have also turned up near Syria's largest city, Aleppo, in the Golan area and Deraa province as Assad seeks to hit rebels in areas where they are much stronger.

    For the rebels the threat constitutes the biggest crisis since the early days of the insurgency when it threatened to fade away due to shortages in kit and lack of organisation.

    This puts the increasing French and British pressure on Washington to back the transfer of weapons to rebels into context. Everyone knows that the current situation may represent a critical phase in deciding how long this war will go on.

    Obama isn't for budging, at least yet, refusing to admit the evidence of chemical weapons use (even though he's been presented with it by his own security people). More proof is the call but its essentially false. They know the story but the President got himself caught on his own hook by suggesting it would be a game changer. Now its proven not to be both sides can feel free to use it on a small to medium scale.

    For the West the threat of strategic defeat in the region now actually comes on the radar for the first time in quite a while. Assad survives after all the calls for him to go, the US looks incredibly indecisive as its spent its time turning on and off taps off supply, including persuading its Saudi and Qatari counterparts to do the same.

    Moreover US policy espoused by the current administration to isolate Iran will look stupid if the Iranians are on the winning side.

    On the battlefield, Assad has a way to go (latest Israeli assessments is that he holds 40% of territory (much of it contested) though he has the majority of the interesting parts, and his Hizbollah supply of bodies does have a bottom to that well.

    For the West though. decision time is coming. Rumours have it the conference sponsored by the USA and Russia looks a sham with no one genuinely willing to make compromises getting anywhere near suiting the other. Russia, which long believed that Western intervention was inevitable seems to considering now that it isnt due to lack of backbone.

    Ironically the rebels largest outside assistance in the immediate may be Israel, who apparently haven't bought Russian threats not to attack Assad's regime again.

    Would it be in the West's interests to gift Syria to an Islamist regime?
    If they fear that, why don't they just shut the f**k up and stay out of it then instead of farting about like the Grand Old Duke of York.
    You seem to be taking sides though.
    And?
    You seem to be cheerleading an Islamist victory? Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,962

    Donor John Mills’s gift to Labour avoided tax bill of £1.5m

    The Labour Party has helped its biggest financial backer avoid tax worth up to £1.5 million on its largest donation so far this year.

    John Mills gave the party shares in his shopping channel company, JML, valued at £1.65 million in January. In an interview with The Telegraph, Mr Mills said that the donation was made in shares rather than cash so the tax on the deal would be significantly reduced.

    Describing the donation as “tax efficient”, he said the form of the donation was agreed with figures in Labour’s fund-raising team.

    Mr Mills said that if he had given £1.65 million from his own income he would have had to pay nearly half of that sum to the taxman.

    Asked why he made the donations in shares, Mr Mills said: “To be honest with you, it is the most tax efficient way of doing this.

    “Because, otherwise, you get no tax relief on donations to political parties for understandable reasons.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10102190/Donor-John-Millss-gift-to-Labour-avoided-tax-bill-of-1.5m.html

    I'm unsure how I feel about this story, from what I have read above. I am wavering between the following emotions:
    1. Apathy: so what? If it's legal, it's fine.
    2. Anger: the f'ing hypocrites! They lambast others for doing it, yet are doing it themselves.
    3. Curiosity: how usual is it for a political party to own shares in a large business (in a non-pension way?) Does such ownership risk conflicts of interest, for instance when addressing problems in the media?
    More details is needed.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Mick_Pork said:

    Socrates said:

    @Scott_P

    Salmond won't have a debate with Alistair Darling? What a coward!

    Cammie's the coward since he pledged to resist Scottish independence with 'everything we've got'. So when Cammie bottles out of debating Farage you'll be calling Farage a coward will you?

    LOL

    Salmond is scared to debate anyone with a Scottish accent. It explodes his claim to be the authentic voice of Scotland.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,962

    I hope it's not the NRM in York that closes, I've never actually been there!

    You should go; every steam enthusiast should make a pilgrimage to the NRM. Having said that, I haven't been for over ten years, and I also want to visit the annexe at Shildon.

    The museum has been terribly mismanaged though. Although their digitisation efforts of their archives are mostly praiseworthy.

    A Nighthawks question for you: what railway first happened at Derby, and was noticed for six months?
    Steel rails instead of wrought iron hitherto used??
    Yep, that's it. The work of Robert Forester Mushet in 1857.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Forester_Mushet

    Various versions of the story exist, one of which is that no railway wanted to try the experimental rail (at the time rails were short, and had to be turned at regular intervals to even out wear). He therefore bribed a railway ganger to place his rail instead of a wrought iron one, and it lasted for a long time on a busy stretch of track. After which steel rails suddenly became possible.

    Some parts of the story seem dubious to me, but it sounds fun!

    I would ask more questions (for instance what did the Midland Railway do a few years earlier, which effects British railway passengers to this day?), but this is a politics blog...
    No, I'm interested in that Midland innovation! Um, what was it?
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    Syria: Congratulations to Assad, Iran, Russia & Hizbollah.

    A week or so ago I reported on the impending attack by Assad's forces on Al Quasir, a town that sits on the Strategic corridors west and North. Much focused on Assad's need to get hold of a town that helps control access to the highways for his own communications. For the rebels the town has similar significance, helping then secure their own supply routes from Lebanon, routes that now are facing a bit of a choking in the central region as Assads forces look to be on the verge of controlling the town.

    Recent fighting has set the rebels back in Homs and Damascus. Assad's favoured infantry forces, Hizbollah have also turned up near Syria's largest city, Aleppo, in the Golan area and Deraa province as Assad seeks to hit rebels in areas where they are much stronger.

    For the rebels the threat constitutes the biggest crisis since the early days of the insurgency when it threatened to fade away due to shortages in kit and lack of organisation.

    This puts the increasing French and British pressure on Washington to back the transfer of weapons to rebels into context. Everyone knows that the current situation may represent a critical phase in deciding how long this war will go on.

    Obama isn't for budging, at least yet, refusing to admit the evidence of chemical weapons use (even though he's been presented with it by his own security people). More proof is the call but its essentially false. They know the story but the President got himself caught on his own hook by suggesting it would be a game changer. Now its proven not to be both sides can feel free to use it on a small to medium scale.

    For the West the threat of strategic defeat in the region now actually comes on the radar for the first time in quite a while. Assad survives after all the calls for him to go, the US looks incredibly indecisive as its spent its time turning on and off taps off supply, including persuading its Saudi and Qatari counterparts to do the same.

    Moreover US policy espoused by the current administration to isolate Iran will look stupid if the Iranians are on the winning side.

    On the battlefield, Assad has a way to go (latest Israeli assessments is that he holds 40% of territory (much of it contested) though he has the majority of the interesting parts, and his Hizbollah supply of bodies does have a bottom to that well.

    For the West though. decision time is coming. Rumours have it the conference sponsored by the USA and Russia looks a sham with no one genuinely willing to make compromises getting anywhere near suiting the other. Russia, which long believed that Western intervention was inevitable seems to considering now that it isnt due to lack of backbone.

    Ironically the rebels largest outside assistance in the immediate may be Israel, who apparently haven't bought Russian threats not to attack Assad's regime again.

    Would it be in the West's interests to gift Syria to an Islamist regime?
    If they fear that, why don't they just shut the f**k up and stay out of it then instead of farting about like the Grand Old Duke of York.
    You seem to be taking sides though.
    And?
    You seem to be cheerleading an Islamist victory? Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
    You are indeed incorrect.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    @SeanT

    In light of your blog for the telegraph, I think you may be appreciate this story in the Times

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article3783773.ece

    Damian Green, the Tory minister said this

    “If you come and live in 21st-century Britain then you obey the laws and observe the conventions of 21st-century Britain. And the law says that exploiting children for sexual purposes is a serious and disgusting crime.”


  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    As Sean T says, we should stay out of Syria. This is one war where one wishes that both sides lose. There are no good guys; the Middle East does not need more arms nor will any intervention from us do any good at all. The West will be blamed whatever we do or don't do because that is the default whinge of the Middle East.

    As for donating shares to a political party as a way of avoiding tax, one looks forward to all those commentators who have berated Starbucks and others for arranging their affairs in the most tax efficient manner to make as much noise over this. Perhaps we will all wake to hear Margaret Hodge pointing out the immorality of it all, not to mention - as Scrapheap points out - the risk of a conflict of interest.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013
    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    Syria: Congratulations to Assad, Iran, Russia & Hizbollah.

    ...

    Ironically the rebels largest outside assistance in the immediate may be Israel, who apparently haven't bought Russian threats not to attack Assad's regime again.

    Initially I *cared* about Syria, but latterly I find it impossible to give a flying f*xk about the Syrian rebels since I saw the video of them teaching children to saw the heads off living prisoners, while shouting "Allahu Akhbar".
    Not the video of the Syrian rebel cutting out the heart and liver of a soldier and eating it?

    Not that Assad is any better but it's remarkable that the Assad regime the US and UK were happy rendering prisoners over to be tortured turns out to be less than concerned about human rights and chemical weapons. Who could have foreseen that?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Neil said:

    Ruairi O Bradaigh dead.

    History wont be kind to him.
    You're talking about that vile cheat and biter, Cian Healy right?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,962

    I hope it's not the NRM in York that closes, I've never actually been there!

    You should go; every steam enthusiast should make a pilgrimage to the NRM. Having said that, I haven't been for over ten years, and I also want to visit the annexe at Shildon.

    The museum has been terribly mismanaged though. Although their digitisation efforts of their archives are mostly praiseworthy.

    A Nighthawks question for you: what railway first happened at Derby, and was noticed for six months?
    Steel rails instead of wrought iron hitherto used??
    Yep, that's it. The work of Robert Forester Mushet in 1857.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Forester_Mushet

    Various versions of the story exist, one of which is that no railway wanted to try the experimental rail (at the time rails were short, and had to be turned at regular intervals to even out wear). He therefore bribed a railway ganger to place his rail instead of a wrought iron one, and it lasted for a long time on a busy stretch of track. After which steel rails suddenly became possible.

    Some parts of the story seem dubious to me, but it sounds fun!

    I would ask more questions (for instance what did the Midland Railway do a few years earlier, which effects British railway passengers to this day?), but this is a politics blog...
    No, I'm interested in that Midland innovation! Um, what was it?
    Up to the 1870s, railway travel had three classes. The Midland abolished second class travel, and increased the comfort of third class. Soon other railway companies did the same, and third was eventually renamed second.

    http://turniprail.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/rise-and-fall-of-second-class-passenger.html
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,962

    I hope it's not the NRM in York that closes, I've never actually been there!

    You should go; every steam enthusiast should make a pilgrimage to the NRM. Having said that, I haven't been for over ten years, and I also want to visit the annexe at Shildon.

    The museum has been terribly mismanaged though. Although their digitisation efforts of their archives are mostly praiseworthy.

    A Nighthawks question for you: what railway first happened at Derby, and was noticed for six months?
    Steel rails instead of wrought iron hitherto used??
    Yep, that's it. The work of Robert Forester Mushet in 1857.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Forester_Mushet

    Various versions of the story exist, one of which is that no railway wanted to try the experimental rail (at the time rails were short, and had to be turned at regular intervals to even out wear). He therefore bribed a railway ganger to place his rail instead of a wrought iron one, and it lasted for a long time on a busy stretch of track. After which steel rails suddenly became possible.

    Some parts of the story seem dubious to me, but it sounds fun!

    I would ask more questions (for instance what did the Midland Railway do a few years earlier, which effects British railway passengers to this day?), but this is a politics blog...
    No, I'm interested in that Midland innovation! Um, what was it?
    Up to the 1870s, railway travel had three classes. The Midland abolished second class travel, and increased the comfort of third class. Soon other railway companies did the same, and third was eventually renamed second.

    http://turniprail.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/rise-and-fall-of-second-class-passenger.html
    Oh I see, thanks for that!
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    @SeanT

    In light of your blog for the telegraph, I think you may be appreciate this story in the Times

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article3783773.ece

    Damian Green, the Tory minister said this

    “If you come and live in 21st-century Britain then you obey the laws and observe the conventions of 21st-century Britain. And the law says that exploiting children for sexual purposes is a serious and disgusting crime.”

    It's one thing to talk a good talk, but what's he actually going to do about it?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    @SeanT

    We sat on our hands so long that the radicals overtook the moderates for control of the insurgency movement.

    However, at this point I feel that we need to screw Assad, because otherwise chemical weapons will be used in conflicts the world over with impunity.

    How the F do we screw Assad? Without risking our soldiers' lives?

    Not one westerner should die to defend these insane radical rebels against the insane bloody tyrant. We will not be thanked for getting involved, merely blamed - cf Benghazi.

    We're done in the middle east. Over. Finished. Shale gas and new oil makes the Mid East increasingly less interesting, and increasingly less relevant. It's a small part of the world which has been ludicrously inflated in importance by OPEC's monopoly on global fuel supplies, a monopoly which is now ending.

    Let Israel defend herself. The west should vacate and build a wall. Good fences make good neighbours. Everyone will be happier.
    Aerial bombing and funding the moderate groups in the rebels. I think it's too simplistic to see this as only two sides. It's like during the Second World War: just because one side had bastard fascists and the other had bastard communists, didn't mean you can't forge democracy out of it.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Socrates said:



    Salmond won't have a debate with Alistair Darling? What a coward!

    Darling: "Definition of 'scaremongering' is asking Alex Salmond a question that he can't answer" #BetterTogether @UK_Together
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Osbrowne's potty house price help to buy 'master strategy' being ripped to pieces on newsnight. Poor old fops what a shame.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Mick_Pork said:

    Socrates said:

    @Scott_P

    Salmond won't have a debate with Alistair Darling? What a coward!

    Cammie's the coward since he pledged to resist Scottish independence with 'everything we've got' and wants to hide behind Darling. Though let us not forget Brown helpfully waded in and thought he should be right in the middle of all this with the amusingly named "United with Labour" splinter group of the No campaign.

    So when Cammie bottles out of debating Farage you'll be calling Farage a coward will you?

    LOL

    I'm sure Farage would be willing to debate either Cameron, or Mandelson, or Clarke, or any pro-European.

    LOL
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Speaking of house prices, maybe the PB tories new sweetheart Darling could have a word with his 'better together' chum Clegg to see if he still thinks Darling is a sleazy disgrace?
    Nick Clegg calls for Alistair Darling to quit over expenses claims

    Alistair Darling came under fresh pressure to quit as chancellor yesterday when the Liberal Democrat leader, Nick Clegg, said he should be sacked for profiting from his parliamentary expenses.

    Clegg has been making increasingly pointed attacks in the wake of the expenses scandal and was the only party leader to call for the Speaker, Michael Martin, to stand down. Yesterday he turned on the chancellor, accusing him of "flipping" the designation of his main and second homes and claiming public money for personal tax advice. This, Clegg insisted, meant Darling could no longer be trusted with the public finances.

    The Telegraph accuses the chancellor of claiming back the cost of two properties at the same time, something prohibited by the parliamentary authorities.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/may/31/liberal-democrats-chancellor-parliamentary-expenses
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,412
    Socrates said:

    @SeanT

    In light of your blog for the telegraph, I think you may be appreciate this story in the Times

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article3783773.ece

    Damian Green, the Tory minister said th

    “If you come and live in 21st-century Britain then you obey the laws and observe the conventions of 21st-century Britain. And the law says that exploiting children for sexual purposes is a serious and disgusting crime.”

    It's one thing to talk a good talk, but what's he actually going to do about it? </block quote

    Law is one thing. Custom and practice quite another.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,412
    Scrapheap, I no longer raise an eyebrow at "do as I say, not as I do.". We are governed by largely corrupt people.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,962
    Another PB Nighthawk question: what should a man think when his wife, normally a non-drinker, comes back from a work do (punting on the Cam followed by a barbecue) as drunk as a skunk and saying she loves him?

    Apparently a Black Russian was involved...

    :-)
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    AndyJS said:

    What's happening in Syria at the moment is probably a good guide to what human life was like for 99% of its existence — (although not in terms of weaponry, of course).

    good guide to the future as well
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    @SeanT

    We sat on our hands so long that the radicals overtook the moderates for control of the insurgency movement.

    However, at this point I feel that we need to screw Assad, because otherwise chemical weapons will be used in conflicts the world over with impunity.

    How the F do we screw Assad? Without risking our soldiers' lives?

    Not one westerner should die to defend these insane radical rebels against the insane bloody tyrant. We will not be thanked for getting involved, merely blamed - cf Benghazi.

    We're done in the middle east. Over. Finished. Shale gas and new oil makes the Mid East increasingly less interesting, and increasingly less relevant. It's a small part of the world which has been ludicrously inflated in importance by OPEC's monopoly on global fuel supplies, a monopoly which is now ending.

    Let Israel defend herself. The west should vacate and build a wall. Good fences make good neighbours. Everyone will be happier.
    Aerial bombing and funding the moderate groups in the rebels. I think it's too simplistic to see this as only two sides. It's like during the Second World War: just because one side had bastard fascists and the other had bastard communists, didn't mean you can't forge democracy out of it.
    Pretty much impossible forging a democracy out of peoples who primarily define themselves according to their creed and think that creed should determine the laws of the land and who should even be allowed to live there.

    Democracy only developed in the West once people had moved away from the idea of a religion having the primary role in defining the state's laws / who should be a citizen etc. Furthermore, in Germany there was some vestigial - albeit weak - memory of what a democracy was, a political/philosophical and cultural history which had contributed to Western development and the very strong example of the rest of the West together with the fear of Soviet Russia.

    Let Syria get on with it. Britain and France are behaving as if this was 1917-18. It isn't. When we interfered then, we made a mess of it and are still - in part - living with the consequences. We should butt out and limit our contribution to providing food and tents and medical help to the refugees in Jordan and elsewhere.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013
    SeanT said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    Osbrowne's potty house price help to buy 'master strategy' being ripped to pieces on newsnight. Poor old fops what a shame.

    Pfft. I'm watching the very same programme. You talk pish.

    Some people think rising house prices are good, some think they're bad. Some think the government should help borrowers, some disagree. That's it.

    Daft Scottish Cybernat Alert. Not.



    Whereas you talk out of your arse.

    This from one of the prize gullible twits who actually believed Cammie's EU flounce and his incompetent EU posturing as well as being so stupendously gullible that you believed Blair on Iraq. No wonder you think this is yet another master strategy of 'genius' from Osbrowne.

    Stick to plagiarising PB posters for your Telegraph 'columns'.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Another PB Nighthawk question: what should a man think when his wife, normally a non-drinker, comes back from a work do (punting on the Cam followed by a barbecue) as drunk as a skunk and saying she loves him?

    Apparently a Black Russian was involved...

    :-)

    He should say nothing. He should make her a strong coffee or tea or whatever and tell her he loves her too.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Mick_Pork said:

    SeanT said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    Osbrowne's potty house price help to buy 'master strategy' being ripped to pieces on newsnight. Poor old fops what a shame.

    Pfft. I'm watching the very same programme. You talk pish.

    Some people think rising house prices are good, some think they're bad. Some think the government should help borrowers, some disagree. That's it.

    Daft Scottish Cybernat Alert. Not.



    Whereas you talk out of your arse.

    This from one of the prize gullible twits who actually believed Cammie's EU flounce and his incompetent EU posturing as well as being so stupendously gullible that you believed Blair on Iraq. No wonder you think this is yet another master strategy of 'genius' from Osbrowne.

    Stick to plagiarising PB posters for your Telegraph 'columns'.

    I'm assuming the misunderstanding is deliberate but the talk over the flounce bounce wasn't anything to do with believing Cameron. It was early evidence that the Cameroons were in the wrong position - as shown since.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,962
    Cyclefree said:

    Another PB Nighthawk question: what should a man think when his wife, normally a non-drinker, comes back from a work do (punting on the Cam followed by a barbecue) as drunk as a skunk and saying she loves him?

    Apparently a Black Russian was involved...

    :-)

    He should say nothing. He should make her a strong coffee or tea or whatever and tell her he loves her too.
    I have already done that, and a few extra things.

    I quite like these times. I drink a little too much at times, but she has never, ever seen me drunk. Yet she tends to get drunk very easily - the last time at a party last Christmas in Edinburgh. It gives me ammunition to use against her for the next few weeks.

    At least she's not as bad as an ex of mine, who once asked me to wipe her bottom after she got outrageously drunk at a Jubilee party in 2002. I told her my love for her would only go so far. The worst thing was that we were guests in a local councillor's house, and everyone could hear as she shouted out of the bathroom...
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    edited June 2013
    The evidence of the gang culture the BBC and the political class spent 30 years pretending didn't exist is to be removed it seems

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22779345

    edit:""By taking these down we are trying to reduce publicity," said the Mayor of Newham, Robin Wales."

    Out of sight, out of mind.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    MrJones said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    SeanT said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    Osbrowne's potty house price help to buy 'master strategy' being ripped to pieces on newsnight. Poor old fops what a shame.

    Pfft. I'm watching the very same programme. You talk pish.

    Some people think rising house prices are good, some think they're bad. Some think the government should help borrowers, some disagree. That's it.

    Daft Scottish Cybernat Alert. Not.



    Whereas you talk out of your arse.

    This from one of the prize gullible twits who actually believed Cammie's EU flounce and his incompetent EU posturing as well as being so stupendously gullible that you believed Blair on Iraq. No wonder you think this is yet another master strategy of 'genius' from Osbrowne.

    Stick to plagiarising PB posters for your Telegraph 'columns'.

    I'm assuming the misunderstanding is deliberate but the talk over the flounce bounce wasn't anything to do with believing Cameron.
    I'm assuming your misunderstanding is deliberate because I remember the amusing hysteria on PB at the time Cammie made his flounce that wasn't. There was little to nothing from the PB tories about the Cameroons being in the wrong position while all those gullible enough to believe it at the time were shrieking about how great Cammie was. Others tried to point out it was mere posturing back then yet strangely enough they weren't listened to.

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Mick_Pork said:

    MrJones said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    SeanT said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    Osbrowne's potty house price help to buy 'master strategy' being ripped to pieces on newsnight. Poor old fops what a shame.

    Pfft. I'm watching the very same programme. You talk pish.

    Some people think rising house prices are good, some think they're bad. Some think the government should help borrowers, some disagree. That's it.

    Daft Scottish Cybernat Alert. Not.



    Whereas you talk out of your arse.

    This from one of the prize gullible twits who actually believed Cammie's EU flounce and his incompetent EU posturing as well as being so stupendously gullible that you believed Blair on Iraq. No wonder you think this is yet another master strategy of 'genius' from Osbrowne.

    Stick to plagiarising PB posters for your Telegraph 'columns'.

    I'm assuming the misunderstanding is deliberate but the talk over the flounce bounce wasn't anything to do with believing Cameron.
    I'm assuming your misunderstanding is deliberate because I remember the amusing hysteria on PB at the time Cammie made his flounce that wasn't. There was little to nothing from the PB tories about the Cameroons being in the wrong position while all those gullible enough to believe it at the time were shrieking about how great Cammie was. Others tried to point out it was mere posturing back then yet strangely enough they weren't listened to.

    Infinitely wrong.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    SeanT said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    SeanT said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    Osbrowne's potty house price help to buy 'master strategy' being ripped to pieces on newsnight. Poor old fops what a shame.

    Pfft. I'm watching the very same programme. You talk pish.

    Some people think rising house prices are good, some think they're bad. Some think the government should help borrowers, some disagree. That's it.

    Daft Scottish Cybernat Alert. Not.



    Whereas you talk out of your arse.

    This from one of the prize gullible twits who actually believed Cammie's EU flounce and his incompetent EU posturing as well as being so stupendously gullible that you believed Blair on Iraq. No wonder you think this is yet another master strategy of 'genius' from Osbrowne.

    Stick to plagiarising PB posters for your Telegraph 'columns'.

    lol
    lol

    This is easy. :)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Another PB Nighthawk question: what should a man think when his wife, normally a non-drinker, comes back from a work do (punting on the Cam followed by a barbecue) as drunk as a skunk and saying she loves him?

    Apparently a Black Russian was involved...

    :-)

    He should say nothing. He should make her a strong coffee or tea or whatever and tell her he loves her too.
    I have already done that, and a few extra things.

    I quite like these times. I drink a little too much at times, but she has never, ever seen me drunk. Yet she tends to get drunk very easily - the last time at a party last Christmas in Edinburgh. It gives me ammunition to use against her for the next few weeks.

    At least she's not as bad as an ex of mine, who once asked me to wipe her bottom after she got outrageously drunk at a Jubilee party in 2002. I told her my love for her would only go so far. The worst thing was that we were guests in a local councillor's house, and everyone could hear as she shouted out of the bathroom...
    Goodness: what an exciting life you lead! I'm of the school which says that when a woman (or man) is in the bathroom, their other half should leave them to it. Time enough when we're 80 and dribbling for bottom-wiping.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013
    MrJones said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    MrJones said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    SeanT said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    Osbrowne's potty house price help to buy 'master strategy' being ripped to pieces on newsnight. Poor old fops what a shame.

    Pfft. I'm watching the very same programme. You talk pish.

    Some people think rising house prices are good, some think they're bad. Some think the government should help borrowers, some disagree. That's it.

    Daft Scottish Cybernat Alert. Not.



    Whereas you talk out of your arse.

    This from one of the prize gullible twits who actually believed Cammie's EU flounce and his incompetent EU posturing as well as being so stupendously gullible that you believed Blair on Iraq. No wonder you think this is yet another master strategy of 'genius' from Osbrowne.

    Stick to plagiarising PB posters for your Telegraph 'columns'.

    I'm assuming the misunderstanding is deliberate but the talk over the flounce bounce wasn't anything to do with believing Cameron.
    I'm assuming your misunderstanding is deliberate because I remember the amusing hysteria on PB at the time Cammie made his flounce that wasn't. There was little to nothing from the PB tories about the Cameroons being in the wrong position while all those gullible enough to believe it at the time were shrieking about how great Cammie was. Others tried to point out it was mere posturing back then yet strangely enough they weren't listened to.

    Infinitely wrong.
    In what regard?
    The PB tories were definitely beside themselves with glee over Cammie's flounce that wasn't and me and a few others absolutely indicated it was laughable posturing at the time.

    Indeed it was only when his eurosceptics had their amusing gulliblity rubbed in their faces did Cammie's backbenchers show their displeasure.
    Eurosceptics treated Cameron like a foul smell

    Betrayed by their hero, Cameron's eurosceptics are quickly returning to their bitter, angry roots

    The last time David Cameron updated the Commons on his return from Brussels he was treated like a hero. The acclaim appeared to have no limits; the prodigal son, had he seen this display of lionising, must have felt like a big disappointment upon his own return. What a difference a follow-up summit makes. Today the Tory eurosceptics edged away from the PM, collectively wrinkling their noses as if he had made a bad smell.

    Labour had anticipated this, and so had lined up a stratagem of their own to increase the discomfort. The opposition's jibes began even before Ed Miliband stood up to respond to Cameron's statement. When the prime minister told MPs that he had "vetoed that treaty" they exploded with laughter.

    http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2012/01/31/sketch-eurosceptics-treated-cameron-like-a-foul-smell
    Nor do any of his Eurosceptics have the balls to remove Cammie so Cammie will just keep making a fool of them and they'll just have to like it.



  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    That Labourlist article ("Ed Balls isn’t knifing universalism. By making Labour electable, he might just be saving it",) is hilarious. Rarely do you see straws laid out so clearly and neatly so that they can be clutched in turn:

    There is a clear difference between means-testing the winter fuel allowance, means-testing bus passes, and means-testing the NHS. It is foolish to say that we are incapable of drawing a line in the sand.

    I have to say I've never got this lefty obsession with the so-called 'principle' of universal benefits. It's a modern nonsense, of course: Old Labour was all about "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Quite how Labour supporters get their head round the proposition that it's progressive, modern, just, and economically sound to tax the rich much more than the poor, whilst at the same time believing that only the most retrograde, ideologically-motivated, 'rabid libertarian fantasists' would want to make welfare payments to the poor but not to the rich, is a complete mystery to me.

    Well, my friends who support Labour: you'd better steel yourselves. Ed Balls is planning to take those straws away from your clutches one by one.

  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited June 2013
    Scott_P said:

    Darling: "Definition of 'scaremongering' is asking Alex Salmond a question that he can't answer" #BetterTogether @UK_Together

    Bravo! As a connoisseur of political lines, who has no particular preference as to the outcome either way (if anything a slight preference towards Scottish independence), I'd say that's one of the best lines I've seen for months.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013

    That Labourlist article ("Ed Balls isn’t knifing universalism. By making Labour electable, he might just be saving it",) is hilarious. Rarely do you see straws laid out so clearly and neatly so that they can be clutched in turn:

    There is a clear difference between means-testing the winter fuel allowance, means-testing bus passes, and means-testing the NHS. It is foolish to say that we are incapable of drawing a line in the sand.

    I have to say I've never got this lefty obsession with the so-called 'principle' of universal benefits. It's a modern nonsense, of course: Old Labour was all about "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Quite how Labour supporters get their head round the proposition that it's progressive, modern, just, and economically sound to tax the rich much more than the poor, whilst at the same time believing that only the most retrograde, ideologically-motivated, 'rabid libertarian fantasists' would want to make welfare payments to the poor but not to the rich, is a complete mystery to me.

    So when can we expect the u-turn from Cammie on pensioners welfare?
    Cameron dismisses Duncan Smith's idea that well-off pensioners should hand back bus passes, winter fuel payments and TV licences

    Iain Duncan Smith: 'Rich should pay back taxpayer-funded support'

    He said it's an 'anomaly' that all pensioners receive universal benefits

    No indication of change' to current system, despite calls for amendment


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2316025/Cameron-dismisses-Duncan-Smiths-idea-pensioners-hand-bus-passes-winter-fuel-payments-TV-licences.html
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Y0kel said:

    Y0kel said:

    Syria: Congratulations to Assad, Iran, Russia & Hizbollah.

    A week or so ago I reported on the impending attack by Assad's forces on Al Quasir, a town that sits on the Strategic corridors west and North. Much focused on Assad's need to get hold of a town that helps control access to the highways for his own communications. For the rebels the town has similar significance, helping then secure their own supply routes from Lebanon, routes that now are facing a bit of a choking in the central region as Assads forces look to be on the verge of controlling the town.

    Recent fighting has set the rebels back in Homs and Damascus. Assad's favoured infantry forces, Hizbollah have also turned up near Syria's largest city, Aleppo, in the Golan area and Deraa province as Assad seeks to hit rebels in areas where they are much stronger.

    For the rebels the threat constitutes the biggest crisis since the early days of the insurgency when it threatened to fade away due to shortages in kit and lack of organisation.

    This puts the increasing French and British pressure on Washington to back the transfer of weapons to rebels into context. Everyone knows that the current situation may represent a critical phase in deciding how long this war will go on.

    Obama isn't for budging, at least yet, refusing to admit the evidence of chemical weapons use (even though he's been presented with it by his own security people). More proof is the call but its essentially false. They know the story but the President got himself caught on his own hook by suggesting it would be a game changer. Now its proven not to be both sides can feel free to use it on a small to medium scale.

    For the West the threat of strategic defeat in the region now actually comes on the radar for the first time in quite a while. Assad survives after all the calls for him to go, the US looks incredibly indecisive as its spent its time turning on and off taps off supply, including persuading its Saudi and Qatari counterparts to do the same.

    Moreover US policy espoused by the current administration to isolate Iran will look stupid if the Iranians are on the winning side.

    On the battlefield, Assad has a way to go (latest Israeli assessments is that he holds 40% of territory (much of it contested) though he has the majority of the interesting parts, and his Hizbollah supply of bodies does have a bottom to that well.

    For the West though. decision time is coming. Rumours have it the conference sponsored by the USA and Russia looks a sham with no one genuinely willing to make compromises getting anywhere near suiting the other. Russia, which long believed that Western intervention was inevitable seems to considering now that it isnt due to lack of backbone.

    Ironically the rebels largest outside assistance in the immediate may be Israel, who apparently haven't bought Russian threats not to attack Assad's regime again.

    Would it be in the West's interests to gift Syria to an Islamist regime?
    If they fear that, why don't they just shut the f**k up and stay out of it then instead of farting about like the Grand Old Duke of York.
    It looks like the dilettantes have just handed Hezbollah another victory.

    TBF, I think if it was up to Britain and France we have been in there helping much earlier. Obama is a pathetic excuse for a President. He should have the courage of his convictions to make a call one way or the other rather than making the US look idiotic.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @Mick_Pork

    Am I a PBTory today? I was told by tim just the other day that I wasn't one any more.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited June 2013
    Mick_Pork said:

    So when can we expect the u-turn from Cammie on pensioners welfare?

    There won't be a U-turn. The commitment is for this parliament. I'd be surprised if it's extended to the next parliament, but it's small beer anyway. The basic point is that there aren't many rich pensioners, so there's little saving to be made. But it's not a big matter of principle either way for any sensible person; it's just a possible saving, to be weighed against the consequences for cases of genuine hardship and the administrative hassle.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "if anything a slight preference towards Scottish independence"

    Really? Suddenly it all makes sense, Richard. Just keep doing what you've been doing.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    is a complete mystery to me.

    No it's not, you understand perfectly well, you're just spinning (as you will, heroically, until the bitter end of the Tory Govt in a year or two).

    If you get run over you should have medical treatment, if you are a child you should be educated, your streets should be policed no matter how much money you have. It should all be free to you, paid for by society as a whole. Because society, ultimately, benefits hugely from this.

    But if you are a millionaire you should pay for your own bus fare, as there is little or no benefit to society from subidising you.

    It's pretty easy.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013

    Mick_Pork said:

    So when can we expect the u-turn from Cammie on pensioners welfare?

    There won't be a U-turn. The commitment is for this parliament. I'd be surprised if it's extended to the next parliament, but it's small beer anyway. The basic point is that there aren't many rich pensioners, so there's little saving to be made.
    Then you can hardly complain about Balls since you appear to agree with him and not Cammie right now.

    If it's 'small beer' then why are you talking it up? Not very clever since this is quite blatant blue labour triangulation where Balls can claim he's tougher on welfare spending than Cammie.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Mick_Pork said:


    So when can we expect the u-turn from Cammie on pensioners welfare?

    Immediately after the next election. I suspect he regrets making the promise that he did, because these benefits are a silly use of resources, but he views it as his equivalent of Clegg's tuition fees pledge
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Charles said:

    Mick_Pork said:


    So when can we expect the u-turn from Cammie on pensioners welfare?

    Immediately after the next election.
    Yes, because nobody is going to think to ask him about his commitment to pensioners welfare during the election campaign, are they?

    That sounds like a viable master strategy. ;)

  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Charles said:

    Mick_Pork said:


    So when can we expect the u-turn from Cammie on pensioners welfare?

    Immediately after the next election.
    Surely we'd have to wait for his Diaries first?

    After he's run some poor bank or media company into the ground with his 'quite good' consultation skills of course.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,314

    Another PB Nighthawk question: what should a man think when his wife, normally a non-drinker, comes back from a work do (punting on the Cam followed by a barbecue) as drunk as a skunk and saying she loves him?

    Apparently a Black Russian was involved...

    :-)

    Have plenty fluids, painkillers and lots of sympathy to hand in the morning when she wakes up. :)

    The last time I had a run in with Black Russians on a night out, was so long ago it was before I was married. On the upside, I did get carried down a snowy brae by a gorgeous RAF Officer from the Mountain Rescue team. That memory still makes me smile. :)

  • Arthur_PennyArthur_Penny Posts: 198

    Donor John Mills’s gift to Labour avoided tax bill of £1.5m

    The Labour Party has helped its biggest financial backer avoid tax worth up to £1.5 million on its largest donation so far this year.

    John Mills gave the party shares in his shopping channel company, JML, valued at £1.65 million in January. In an interview with The Telegraph, Mr Mills said that the donation was made in shares rather than cash so the tax on the deal would be significantly reduced.

    Describing the donation as “tax efficient”, he said the form of the donation was agreed with figures in Labour’s fund-raising team.

    Mr Mills said that if he had given £1.65 million from his own income he would have had to pay nearly half of that sum to the taxman.

    Asked why he made the donations in shares, Mr Mills said: “To be honest with you, it is the most tax efficient way of doing this.

    “Because, otherwise, you get no tax relief on donations to political parties for understandable reasons.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10102190/Donor-John-Millss-gift-to-Labour-avoided-tax-bill-of-1.5m.html

    I'm unsure how I feel about this story, from what I have read above. I am wavering between the following emotions:
    1. Apathy: so what? If it's legal, it's fine.
    2. Anger: the f'ing hypocrites! They lambast others for doing it, yet are doing it themselves.
    3. Curiosity: how usual is it for a political party to own shares in a large business (in a non-pension way?) Does such ownership risk conflicts of interest, for instance when addressing problems in the media?
    More details is needed.
    "It's not the legality - it's the morality". "The jury of public opinion" and various other phrases come to mind.

    To the tories, this is manna from heaven - to be repeated every day until May 5th 2015.

    No doubt the Conservative party will now ask its big business donors to do the same (without fear or conradiction or, better yet, they will remove this loophole - retrospectively - I am sure the Lib Dems and 100% of tories would vote this through - and Labour cannot really complain as they voted through retrospective legislation fairly recently.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited June 2013

    "if anything a slight preference towards Scottish independence"

    Really? Suddenly it all makes sense, Richard. Just keep doing what you've been doing.

    Why suddenly? I've never hidden my view that I think independence would be in Scotland's interest (and of course in the interests of the rest of the UK, but that's a separate matter). Perhaps you jumped to conclusions...

    I even wrote a longish post on the subject a few weeks ago. Basically I think Scotland has a surprisingly diverse economy for such a small country, but is being held back by a mindset of dependence on the UK taxpayer. That has blunted what used to be the entrepreneurial, Protestant work-ethic, canny, prudent tradition of Scots. I think you'd have a bit of a short-term shock as the defence jobs, other UK government jobs, and UK benefits payments were withdrawn, but once that Thatcherite medicine was swallowed, you'd be in a very strong position. You've got a fairly well educated, English-speaking workforce; you need to up your game in schools, but you've still got a very fine legal profession, world-class universities, medical schools, and so on. You've got oil, plus oil and gas services, fishing, tourism, some hi-tech manufacturing, whisky, high-end agricultural products, hydro-electric power, call-centres, a slightly damaged but still significant financial services sector specialising in insurance, pensions and fund management, and so on - that's plenty for a population of less than six million.

    So if I were you I'd go for it. But I fear Scots won't abandon the comfort blanket, and also Salmond has made a spectacular mess of answering the most basic questions on the currency, the EU and NATO. It's a pity, but as a betting man I need to assess what I think will happen, not what I think ought to happen.

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Re: benefits. The absurd thing about the CB cut is, I have now said on here as nauseum, that if you are in the £50-60k salary band you are forced into the self assessment system. I already have enough admin with my family finances, without dealing with that as well, so I hope Labour can find a better way than the dismally bureaucratic mess Ozzy created. I don't see why they can't just tax it through PAYE if they want to cut it.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Bobajob said:

    The absurd thing about the CB cut is, I have now said on here as nauseum, that if you are in the £50-60k salary band you are forced into the self assessment system. I already have enough admin with my family finances, without dealing with that as well,

    Have you actually looked at the form yet?

    It really is trivially simple if your financial affairs are simple (and, if they're not, you'd be filling in a self-assessment form anyway).
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @carl

    'But if you are a millionaire you should pay for your own bus fare, as there is little or no benefit to society from subidising you.'

    So all those years of Labour telling us the importance of benefits universality was simply bull$hit.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    OT, Matt Yglesias on a way to deal with Nimbys and get some houses built: Sollicit investments from local people, and cut them in on the profits. Looks promising for the UK - obviously it would be rephrased in terms of local community cooperatives or big society social capital or whatever depending which party proposed it.

    http://mobile.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/06/fundrise_real_estate_crowd_funding_could_beat_nimbys.html
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Bobajob said:

    The absurd thing about the CB cut is, I have now said on here as nauseum, that if you are in the £50-60k salary band you are forced into the self assessment system. I already have enough admin with my family finances, without dealing with that as well,

    Have you actually looked at the form yet?

    It really is trivially simple if your financial affairs are simple (and, if they're not, you'd be filling in a self-assessment form anyway).
    Yes I have seen it and asking me to fill it in is ridiculous - as I say, why not create an elegant mechanism through PAYE? Just another form and another agency to deal with in a world that already has too many forms.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    "if anything a slight preference towards Scottish independence"

    Really? Suddenly it all makes sense, Richard. Just keep doing what you've been doing.

    Why suddenly? I've never hidden my view that I think independence would be in Scotland's interest (and of course in the interests of the rest of the UK, but that's a separate matter). Perhaps you jumped to conclusions...

    I even wrote a longish post on the subject a few weeks ago. Basically I think Scotland has a surprisingly diverse economy for such a small country, but is being held back by a mindset of dependence on the UK taxpayer. That has blunted what used to be the entrepreneurial, Protestant work-ethic, canny, prudent tradition of Scots. I think you'd have a bit of a short-term shock as the defence jobs, other UK government jobs, and UK benefits payments were withdrawn, but once that Thatcherite medicine was swallowed, you'd be in a very strong position. You've got a fairly well educated, English-speaking workforce; you need to up your game in schools, but you've still got a very fine legal profession, world-class universities, medical schools, and so on. You've got oil, plus oil and gas services, fishing, tourism, some hi-tech manufacturing, high-end agricultural products, hydro-electric power, call-centres, a slightly damaged but still significant financial services sector specialising in insurance, pensions and fund management, and so on - that's plenty for a population of less than six million.

    So if I were you I'd go for it. But I fear Scots won't abandon the comfort blanket, and also Salmond has made a spectacular mess of answering the most basic questions on the currency, the EU and NATO. It's a pity, but as a betting man I need to assess what I think will happen, not what I think ought to happen.

    Very similar to my own views, I do miss the like button. Independence would be good for Scotland, it would have to take its own structural problems seriously, though I expect that much will be blamed on those meanies south of the Border.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013

    "if anything a slight preference towards Scottish independence"

    Really? Suddenly it all makes sense, Richard. Just keep doing what you've been doing.

    He just did. Superb isn't it? ;D

    He doesn't even appear to grasp what he's doing which only makes it funnier.

    As is the spectacle of all those piling in actually praising his attempts at patronising drivel completely oblivious to why even SLAB have realised that kind of out of touch lunacy is the last thing the No campaign needs.

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    "if anything a slight preference towards Scottish independence"

    Really? Suddenly it all makes sense, Richard. Just keep doing what you've been doing.

    Why suddenly? I've never hidden my view that I think independence would be in Scotland's interest (and of course in the interests of the rest of the UK, but that's a separate matter). Perhaps you jumped to conclusions...

    I even wrote a longish post on the subject a few weeks ago. Basically I think Scotland has a surprisingly diverse economy for such a small country, but is being held back by a mindset of dependence on the UK taxpayer. That has blunted what used to be the entrepreneurial, Protestant work-ethic, canny, prudent tradition of Scots. I think you'd have a bit of a short-term shock as the defence jobs, other UK government jobs, and UK benefits payments were withdrawn, but once that Thatcherite medicine was swallowed, you'd be in a very strong position. You've got a fairly well educated, English-speaking workforce; you need to up your game in schools, but you've still got a very fine legal profession, world-class universities, medical schools, and so on. You've got oil, plus oil and gas services, fishing, tourism, some hi-tech manufacturing, whisky, high-end agricultural products, hydro-electric power, call-centres, a slightly damaged but still significant financial services sector specialising in insurance, pensions and fund management, and so on - that's plenty for a population of less than six million.

    So if I were you I'd go for it. But I fear Scots won't abandon the comfort blanket, and also Salmond has made a spectacular mess of answering the most basic questions on the currency, the EU and NATO. It's a pity, but as a betting man I need to assess what I think will happen, not what I think ought to happen.

    A superb post. We did some analysis at our place and also came to the conclusion that Scotland would be good to go alone- while it would be a shame on an emotional level to lose them from the union, it is an obvious and indeed wise step for them to make.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    @SeanT

    Maybe people are commenting on it on another Telegraph page, which is what happens sometimes when comments are closed.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    AndyJS said:

    @SeanT

    Maybe people are commenting on it on another Telegraph page, which is what happens sometimes when comments are closed.

    Maybe the Telegraph should ask Socrates to write their columns for them?
    On top of all the other plagiarised columns from PB posters.

    Perhaps someone should post on the Telegraph pointing that out? ;)

    *chortle*
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @SeanT

    Hopefully Gwent police have been told to get a fuc$ing grip and to stop this nonsense.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    SeanT said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    AndyJS said:

    @SeanT

    Maybe people are commenting on it on another Telegraph page, which is what happens sometimes when comments are closed.

    Maybe the Telegraph should ask Socrates to write their columns for them?
    On top of all the other plagiarised columns from PB posters.

    Perhaps someone should post on the Telegraph pointing that out? ;)

    *chortle*
    You are, of course, free to post your own blogs on the Telegraph
    I said post not blog. I also know I am free (within the confines of the Telegraph banning comments from their obvious 'controversy columns' that excite the far right swivel eyed loons) to comment on who writes what and why, and indeed who doesn't.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Serena Williams speaking Italian a few weeks ago in Rome:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Rofm6o57A
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,314
    edited June 2013
    Interesting article from Martin Kettle in the Guardian - Will this welfare speech turn things round for Ed Miliband? It's a big ask

    One question, how many self inflicted traps have Ed Miliband and Ed Balls already set themselves in the last three years by opposing every spending cut or reform implemented by this Coalition Government?

    The danger is that Labour's lengthy policy vacuum has already been been filled in by the electorate, and is now seen as refusal to face the tough choices needed. I am not sure that a smoke and mirrors conversion to Osborne's economic policies just as the economy is turning a corner will be regarded as genuine new thinking from the two Eds. Far more likely to be viewed as a cynical and dishonest attempt not to scare the electorate off more of the same thinking from the same Labour politicians who got us into this economic mess.

  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    john_zims said:


    So all those years of Labour telling us the importance of benefits universality was simply bull$hit.

    I guess they've simply came to the conclusion that it's unaffordable.

    It's ok for people to admit that they were wrong, in fact it's a good thing. I'm glad to see Labour starting to understand the Maths.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,543
    carl said:

    is a complete mystery to me.

    No it's not, you understand perfectly well, you're just spinning (as you will, heroically, until the bitter end of the Tory Govt in a year or two).

    If you get run over you should have medical treatment, if you are a child you should be educated, your streets should be policed no matter how much money you have. It should all be free to you, paid for by society as a whole. Because society, ultimately, benefits hugely from this.

    But if you are a millionaire you should pay for your own bus fare, as there is little or no benefit to society from subidising you.

    It's pretty easy.

    Post of the month!

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,314
    edited June 2013
    @asjohnstone Ed Balls was still making himself a hostage to fortune just yesterday. He was still claiming that the Coalition Government had cut too far and too fast, and while denying his own Government had spent too much and racked up excessive debt. And yet, Balls was also claiming that there wouldn't be any extra money to reverse coalition cuts while promising to handle the public finances with “iron discipline” (no, seriously). Oh, and he was advocating borrowing more in the short term.

    So after three years of Ed Balls spinning the line that this Coalition Government were cutting too far and too fast. We can now look forward to a new slogan from Balls as he tries to spin that a Labour Government will not spend and borrow too much, or too fast if they get back into power in 2015. I doubt the 'iron discipline on the public finances' line will last any longer than the straight faces of the next focus groups asked to road test it.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    carl said:

    It should all be free to you, paid for by society as a whole.

    "Society" doesn't get a tax bill. I do. Which means that it is not free to me.


    Post of the month!

    Don't be silly.



  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    (OT) In case anyone else is interested, I have found a rare interview clip of the normally elusive Most Gorgeous Man Who Has Ever Existed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFGagRUiGIA
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    BBC now covering the Labour tax avoidance donation story:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22793181
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 664
    new thread
This discussion has been closed.