Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Lunchtime round-up with Marf on the pensioners bonds and th

SystemSystem Posts: 12,214
edited January 2015 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Lunchtime round-up with Marf on the pensioners bonds and the coalition struggling in the “blame for the cuts” tracker

Pensioners, as we all know, are most likely to be on the electoral register and most likely to vote. They are also the segment of the population most likely to have savings on which, in the era of ultra low interest rates, they are receiving a pittance. Also the polling suggests that they are more likely to be CON supporters than other age segments.

Read the full story here


«1

Comments

  • First
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited January 2015
    If I were Labour I'd start advertising how much lower pensioner incomes are now as a result of the Coalition's decision to increases many pensions in line with CPI rather than RPI. Should dent the Tory grey vote a little.
  • FPT - Not quite a canvassing anecdote, but it is a story that always amuses me, at a count.

    It was a council election, the incumbent was a Lib Dem, there was one constituent that didn't like him, who on the ballot paper drew a penis with arrow to the councillor's name.

    The Lib Dems said that was a vote for their man, as it was clearly a mark indicating a preference for their guy.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Neil said:

    If I were Labour I'd start advertising how much lower pensioner incomes are now as a result of the Coalition's decision to increases many pensions in line with CPI rather than RPI. Should dent the Tory grey vote a little.

    And then they will go on to say they will change it?? With money from where?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,709
    Just done my income tax, which is all pension income, and mostly, but exclusively taxed at source, and was surprised how low it was.
    Seems to work out right, but of course I'll know eventually.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    If I were Labour I'd start advertising how much lower pensioner incomes are now as a result of the Coalition's decision to increases many pensions in line with CPI rather than RPI. Should dent the Tory grey vote a little.

    And then they will go on to say they will change it?? With money from where?
    Why would they go on to say anything? Just point out that the Chancellor who appears to be falling over to ingratiate himself with pensioners now is the one who has been stiffing them badly for years.

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Neil,

    "Should dent the Tory grey vote a little."

    I doubt it, unless Labour are committed to reversing this?

    Tumbleweed drifts across screen.

    Responsibility for the deficit? Surely the blame game is bound to reverse as time goes by?
    There's now support for nationalising the power industries. I'd assume that's predominantly from the young - those who don't remember the three day week.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    If I were Labour I'd start advertising how much lower pensioner incomes are now as a result of the Coalition's decision to increases many pensions in line with CPI rather than RPI. Should dent the Tory grey vote a little.

    And then they will go on to say they will change it?? With money from where?
    Why would they go on to say anything? Just point out that the Chancellor who appears to be falling over to ingratiate himself with pensioners now is the one who has been stiffing them badly for years.

    Not sure its going to resonate that strongly from the party of the 75p pension increase...
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    Yet another anti-coalition thread - now that really does sound rather tired.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Just going off topic a moment: for all the grand schemes talked about by politicians, perhaps if they just got to grips with basic issues like the one below, there wouldn't be the need to keep adding new taxes in the first place.

    Why isn't more being done about the foreign eBay sellers who cheat us all by not paying VAT?

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/isnt-more-being-done-foreign-4982416

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,536

    FPT - Not quite a canvassing anecdote, but it is a story that always amuses me, at a count.

    It was a council election, the incumbent was a Lib Dem, there was one constituent that didn't like him, who on the ballot paper drew a penis with arrow to the councillor's name.

    The Lib Dems said that was a vote for their man, as it was clearly a mark indicating a preference for their guy.

    My favourite spoiled ballot was when I stood in 2000 against a Labour candidate and one voter wrote "I can't stand either of them" on the paper.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    CD13 said:

    Neil,

    "Should dent the Tory grey vote a little."

    I doubt it, unless Labour are committed to reversing this?

    Labour dont need to take their votes. Every one that drifts off to that nice UKIP also does a job for them.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,125
    Green Party membership surges past UKIP's. 2,000 join in one day!

    http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2015/01/15/combined-uk-green-parties’-membership-passes-ukips/
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    Neil said:

    If I were Labour I'd start advertising how much lower pensioner incomes are now as a result of the Coalition's decision to increases many pensions in line with CPI rather than RPI. Should dent the Tory grey vote a little.

    Not a chance - pensioners are the only group whose income has grown since 2010 - and quite substantially thanks to the personal allowance rises.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    It's worth noting that CPI still grows faster than the GDP deflator index, so, in a flat economy, benefits growing in line with CPI will become larger as a share of GDP.

    It would be interesting to compare how CPI grows relative to nominal GDP.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Indigo said:

    Neil said:

    Neil said:

    If I were Labour I'd start advertising how much lower pensioner incomes are now as a result of the Coalition's decision to increases many pensions in line with CPI rather than RPI. Should dent the Tory grey vote a little.

    And then they will go on to say they will change it?? With money from where?
    Why would they go on to say anything? Just point out that the Chancellor who appears to be falling over to ingratiate himself with pensioners now is the one who has been stiffing them badly for years.

    Not sure its going to resonate that strongly from the party of the 75p pension increase...
    You're old enough to remember that?!

    Again, all that is needed is for a few pensioners to be upset enough to move on to UKIP or stay at home (or stay with UKIP).
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    felix said:

    Neil said:

    If I were Labour I'd start advertising how much lower pensioner incomes are now as a result of the Coalition's decision to increases many pensions in line with CPI rather than RPI. Should dent the Tory grey vote a little.

    Not a chance - pensioners are the only group whose income has grown since 2010 - and quite substantially thanks to the personal allowance rises.
    That still doesnt change the fact that they are billions worse off from the Chancellors grab on their pension increases.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Maybe we should be sceptical about this apparent surge.

    Green Party membership surges past UKIP's. 2,000 join in one day!

    http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2015/01/15/combined-uk-green-parties’-membership-passes-ukips/

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AndyJS said:

    Maybe we should be sceptical about this apparent surge.

    Why?
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Just going off topic a moment: for all the grand schemes talked about by politicians, perhaps if they just got to grips with basic issues like the one below, there wouldn't be the need to keep adding new taxes in the first place.

    Why isn't more being done about the foreign eBay sellers who cheat us all by not paying VAT?

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/isnt-more-being-done-foreign-4982416

    VAT is defined by HMRC as Value-added tax (VAT) is due on any supply of goods or services made in the United Kingdom (UK), where it is a taxable supply made by a taxable person in the course or furtherance of a business carried on by said person.

    IANAL/IANAA but there appears to be two issues.

    Firstly if the good are supplied from say China, and I believe they almost always are, the article rather begs the questions, but in my experience of buy cheap gear on EBay it almost always arrives with Hong Kong postal stamps attached. This is clearly good supplied from outside the UK/EU and no VAT is due, they win, ain't globalisation great.

    If they good are supplied from inside the UK, they clearly VAT is due, but since the chinese seller is outside the jurisdiction of the UK courts, they are going to have, and particularly if he is in China, they are going to have a hard time doing much about it.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Neil said:

    CD13 said:

    Neil,

    "Should dent the Tory grey vote a little."

    I doubt it, unless Labour are committed to reversing this?

    Labour dont need to take their votes. Every one that drifts off to that nice UKIP also does a job for them.
    Unless they are Heywood and Middleton pensioners I guess ;-)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,125
    It seems to me that all this Debate talk about Greens missing out has promoted the party in the media and persuaded people to join up.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Green Party membership surges past UKIP's. 2,000 join in one day!

    http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2015/01/15/combined-uk-green-parties’-membership-passes-ukips/

    Excellent! More Green votes means less Labour votes, possibly less Labour seats, and almost certainly no significant number of Green seats. Win all around :D
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    With Labour still being blamed by 35% for the cuts five years after they left power is very significant.
  • Nice cartoon, Marf!
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    perdix said:

    With Labour still being blamed by 35% for the cuts five years after they left power is very significant.

    Fatcha is still blamed for everything 25 years after she left government and 2 years after she died.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Indigo said:

    Neil said:

    CD13 said:

    Neil,

    "Should dent the Tory grey vote a little."

    I doubt it, unless Labour are committed to reversing this?

    Labour dont need to take their votes. Every one that drifts off to that nice UKIP also does a job for them.
    Unless they are Heywood and Middleton pensioners I guess ;-)
    Probably not that many pensioners left in Stafford either.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    It seems to me that all this Debate talk about Greens missing out has promoted the party in the media and persuaded people to join up.

    Indeed. Long may it last!
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Sean_F said:

    FPT - Not quite a canvassing anecdote, but it is a story that always amuses me, at a count.

    It was a council election, the incumbent was a Lib Dem, there was one constituent that didn't like him, who on the ballot paper drew a penis with arrow to the councillor's name.

    The Lib Dems said that was a vote for their man, as it was clearly a mark indicating a preference for their guy.

    My favourite spoiled ballot was when I stood in 2000 against a Labour candidate and one voter wrote "I can't stand either of them" on the paper.

    In the AV referendum I added an STV box and ticked it. One of my facebook friends went one better - he added an STV box then chose it as his second preference...
  • FPT - Not quite a canvassing anecdote, but it is a story that always amuses me, at a count.

    It was a council election, the incumbent was a Lib Dem, there was one constituent that didn't like him, who on the ballot paper drew a penis with arrow to the councillor's name.

    The Lib Dems said that was a vote for their man, as it was clearly a mark indicating a preference for their guy.

    Was it a Local Erection? :)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    " Ruth Rendell Critical After 'Serious Stroke'
    The Chief Inspector Wexford creator, 84, had recently completed a new novel but is now being treated in hospital."

    http://news.sky.com/story/1408328/ruth-rendell-critical-after-serious-stroke
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Owen Jones blamed Mrs T for the middle classes having better dress sense than chavs on R5 a few years ago - it remains my favourite WTF moment - along with Nicky Campbell calling Guido a "fascist" and having to apologise to him on air.
    Indigo said:

    perdix said:

    With Labour still being blamed by 35% for the cuts five years after they left power is very significant.

    Fatcha is still blamed for everything 25 years after she left government and 2 years after she died.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,709
    Indigo said:

    perdix said:

    With Labour still being blamed by 35% for the cuts five years after they left power is very significant.

    Fatcha is still blamed for everything 25 years after she left government and 2 years after she died.
    Which is even less fair; the real evil genius was, IIRC, Sir Keith Joseph.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Racist.

    FPT - Not quite a canvassing anecdote, but it is a story that always amuses me, at a count.

    It was a council election, the incumbent was a Lib Dem, there was one constituent that didn't like him, who on the ballot paper drew a penis with arrow to the councillor's name.

    The Lib Dems said that was a vote for their man, as it was clearly a mark indicating a preference for their guy.

    Was it a Local Erection? :)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    He made a mad scientist look sane.

    Indigo said:

    perdix said:

    With Labour still being blamed by 35% for the cuts five years after they left power is very significant.

    Fatcha is still blamed for everything 25 years after she left government and 2 years after she died.
    Which is even less fair; the real evil genius was, IIRC, Sir Keith Joseph.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Indigo said:

    Green Party membership surges past UKIP's. 2,000 join in one day!

    http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2015/01/15/combined-uk-green-parties’-membership-passes-ukips/

    Excellent! More Green votes means less Labour votes, possibly less Labour seats, and almost certainly no significant number of Green seats. Win all around :D
    This is my thinking on the matter. Evidence from the continent also shows that the Greens pull centre-left parties towards positions that are highly unpopular with the general public. It's a good thing all round for those on the right of centre.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Socrates said:

    Indigo said:

    Green Party membership surges past UKIP's. 2,000 join in one day!

    http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2015/01/15/combined-uk-green-parties’-membership-passes-ukips/

    Excellent! More Green votes means less Labour votes, possibly less Labour seats, and almost certainly no significant number of Green seats. Win all around :D
    This is my thinking on the matter. Evidence from the continent also shows that the Greens pull centre-left parties towards positions that are highly unpopular with the general public. It's a good thing all round for those on the right of centre.
    I wonder how those on the left of centre view UKIP?

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Dearie me
    MPs demand Black Friday is SCRAPPED after huge discounts sparked 'scenes of disorder' with shoppers scrapping over TVs

    Commons motion laid slamming retailers for offering ‘huge discounts'
    Three MPs claim knock-down prices caused ‘scenes of disorder' last year
    The MPs call on ‘all UK retailers not to mark this event in 2015 or again’
    Comes after police were called after fighting broke out over cheap TVs
    dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2911581/MPs-demand-Black-Friday-SCRAPPED-huge-discounts-sparked-scenes-disorder-shoppers-scrapping-TVs.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,709
    Thought re cartoon. Given the demographics, shouldn't there be two females and one male?
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Good* to see the Pope is on board with isam:
    "If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch," Francis said, throwing a pretend punch his way. "It's normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others."
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_REL_FRANCE_ATTACKS_POPE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

    *not good
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited January 2015
    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Indigo said:

    Green Party membership surges past UKIP's. 2,000 join in one day!

    http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2015/01/15/combined-uk-green-parties’-membership-passes-ukips/

    Excellent! More Green votes means less Labour votes, possibly less Labour seats, and almost certainly no significant number of Green seats. Win all around :D
    This is my thinking on the matter. Evidence from the continent also shows that the Greens pull centre-left parties towards positions that are highly unpopular with the general public. It's a good thing all round for those on the right of centre.
    I wonder how those on the left of centre view UKIP?

    That's a strange one, if they were rational they should take the same view, that it splits the right-wing vote. The more politically aware such as many on this site understand this, which is why UKIP gets far more bile from Tories than the lefties. However most lefties in the real world seem to be so convulsed with hatred for UKIP and all it stands for, they try their hardest to minimise it and preferably drive it out of existence, which if they succeeded would probably guarantee a Tory government with a landslide majority.
  • Plato said:

    Dearie me

    MPs demand Black Friday is SCRAPPED after huge discounts sparked 'scenes of disorder' with shoppers scrapping over TVs

    Commons motion laid slamming retailers for offering ‘huge discounts'
    Three MPs claim knock-down prices caused ‘scenes of disorder' last year
    The MPs call on ‘all UK retailers not to mark this event in 2015 or again’
    Comes after police were called after fighting broke out over cheap TVs
    dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2911581/MPs-demand-Black-Friday-SCRAPPED-huge-discounts-sparked-scenes-disorder-shoppers-scrapping-TVs.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

    "This Black Friday, which started in America..."
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    Neil said:

    felix said:

    Neil said:

    If I were Labour I'd start advertising how much lower pensioner incomes are now as a result of the Coalition's decision to increases many pensions in line with CPI rather than RPI. Should dent the Tory grey vote a little.

    Not a chance - pensioners are the only group whose income has grown since 2010 - and quite substantially thanks to the personal allowance rises.
    That still doesnt change the fact that they are billions worse off from the Chancellors grab on their pension increases.

    You can't be worse off from a hypothetical gain. Money in the pocket is what matters to real people. There's a reason why pensioners vote Tory.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    A slight difference of opinion developing in France...

    "Charlie Hebdo co-founder says murdered editor 'dragged' staff to death with provocative cartoons"
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebdo-founder-says-murdered-editor-dragged-staff-to-death-with-provocative-cartoons-9979104.html
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    felix said:

    Neil said:

    felix said:

    Neil said:

    If I were Labour I'd start advertising how much lower pensioner incomes are now as a result of the Coalition's decision to increases many pensions in line with CPI rather than RPI. Should dent the Tory grey vote a little.

    Not a chance - pensioners are the only group whose income has grown since 2010 - and quite substantially thanks to the personal allowance rises.
    That still doesnt change the fact that they are billions worse off from the Chancellors grab on their pension increases.

    You can't be worse off from a hypothetical gain.
    You can be worse off from a political stroke.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    Indigo said:

    Green Party membership surges past UKIP's. 2,000 join in one day!

    http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2015/01/15/combined-uk-green-parties’-membership-passes-ukips/

    Excellent! More Green votes means less Labour votes, possibly less Labour seats, and almost certainly no significant number of Green seats. Win all around :D
    This is my thinking on the matter. Evidence from the continent also shows that the Greens pull centre-left parties towards positions that are highly unpopular with the general public. It's a good thing all round for those on the right of centre.
    I wonder how those on the left of centre view UKIP?

    From a tactical perspective, it's good for them in the short term, but poses a long term risk. I think the asymmetry is because the major policies of UKIP are ones that are rather popular with the general public, while the major policies of the Greens aren't really. There are far more Labour voters that could cross to UKIP than Conservative voters that could cross to the Greens.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Currency mayhem in Europe.
    Will it spread?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30829917
    Euro sinks in the market. TTL I sold mine last September.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,125
    BBC picks up Green story. You read it on PB first!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30829222
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Good* to see the Pope is on board with isam:

    "If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch," Francis said, throwing a pretend punch his way. "It's normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others."
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_REL_FRANCE_ATTACKS_POPE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

    *not good

    The Pope has the advantage of never having to stand for election again, and not have to clear up the mess when it all goes wrong. If the majority's patience snaps and elects a hard right government and lots of nasty deportations and other civil strife happen, the Pope will sigh and preach that this should not happen either, even if it was the direct result of his original recommendation.

    He also hopes the same accommodations that have been afforded the Islamists would be afforded the Catholics, in that I suspect he might be disappointed.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Currency mayhem in Europe.

    Hardly Mayhem. Currencies move up and down all the time.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    BBC picks up Green story. You read it on PB first!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30829222

    On the last thread! ;)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited January 2015
    Neil said:

    BBC picks up Green story. You read it on PB first!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30829222

    On the last thread! ;)
    But will they get more VOTES than UKIP ;)

    First ELBOW of the new year (11th Jan):

    UKIP 14.5
    Green 6.4

    All-December "Super-ELBOW" (32 polls):

    UKIP 15.5
    Green 6.0
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    RodCrosby said:

    A slight difference of opinion developing in France...

    "Charlie Hebdo co-founder says murdered editor 'dragged' staff to death with provocative cartoons"
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebdo-founder-says-murdered-editor-dragged-staff-to-death-with-provocative-cartoons-9979104.html

    No, only the opinion of one man.
  • MikeK said:

    RodCrosby said:

    A slight difference of opinion developing in France...

    "Charlie Hebdo co-founder says murdered editor 'dragged' staff to death with provocative cartoons"
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebdo-founder-says-murdered-editor-dragged-staff-to-death-with-provocative-cartoons-9979104.html

    No, only the opinion of one man.
    Sticks and stones may break my bones, but cartoons will never hurt me.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited January 2015
    @CD13‌ Vanilla message for you re book, oh Ive bought it anyway :smile:
  • Personal finance hits PB & Marf.

    Ozzy achieving cut through yet again!!!
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    BBC picks up Green story. You read it on PB first!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30829222

    Waits for the intern pressed three extra zeros...excuse.

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    Neil said:

    felix said:

    Neil said:

    felix said:

    Neil said:

    If I were Labour I'd start advertising how much lower pensioner incomes are now as a result of the Coalition's decision to increases many pensions in line with CPI rather than RPI. Should dent the Tory grey vote a little.

    Not a chance - pensioners are the only group whose income has grown since 2010 - and quite substantially thanks to the personal allowance rises.
    That still doesnt change the fact that they are billions worse off from the Chancellors grab on their pension increases.

    You can't be worse off from a hypothetical gain.
    You can be worse off from a political stroke.
    You are Ed Balls and I claim my [devalued] £.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    The one in the centre in the cartoon is JackW.
  • Good* to see the Pope is on board with isam:

    "If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch," Francis said, throwing a pretend punch his way. "It's normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others."
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_REL_FRANCE_ATTACKS_POPE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

    *not good

    Why not? The Pope offering violence for insults (even if in a jokey fashion).
    Well done Francis re: Climate Change, but not for this.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,962
    The Pope's a tosser. He's either a craven apologist, or seeking to establish a wider puritanical alliance to forbid mockery of various religions and religious figures.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    MikeK said:

    RodCrosby said:

    A slight difference of opinion developing in France...

    "Charlie Hebdo co-founder says murdered editor 'dragged' staff to death with provocative cartoons"
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebdo-founder-says-murdered-editor-dragged-staff-to-death-with-provocative-cartoons-9979104.html

    No, only the opinion of one man.
    It fails the smell test for me. These nationally revered cartoonists were chained to their desks and whipped until they produced sufficiently controversial cartoons? They could have said no, if they had and the editor had been fool enough to sack them, how many milliseconds before they got a new job given their reputations.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    The one in the centre in the cartoon is JackW.

    I didn't know he looked so good. :)
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited January 2015
    A few years ago I suggested that, to extricate ourselves, we all should pay a kind of "tithing" one-off tax according to our worth. That could not happen, of course, because we are not truly social creatures. It does seem to be happening willy-nilly to our oldsters' savings. The best way around that would be in (successful) investment, but many of us won't/can't do that.

    By the way, how did get Marf her her hands on my photo?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,184
    Ed M seeks to win back the Greeny-Reds:

    "I believe tackling climate change is the most important thing I can do in politics for my children's generation," he will say. "It demands leadership and resolve. So in Paris next year, a Labour government would be pushing for global targets for reducing carbon emissions that rise every five years with regular reviews towards the long-term goal of what the science now tells us is necessary - zero net global emissions in the latter half of this century."

    Miliband will also aim some thinly veiled criticism at Prime Minister David Cameron, who he has in the past accused of ditching his previous commitments to the environment.

    "I know tackling climate change, global poverty and inequality are not as fashionable as they once were," he will say. "But I also know they are more important than ever. For me, they are not luxury items in our programme for change. They are not part of a branding exercise. They go to the heart of my beliefs and the reason why I entered politics."

    http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2390356/over-1-000-civil-society-groups-launch-campaign-for-climate-action
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    edited January 2015
    Indigo said:

    Just going off topic a moment: for all the grand schemes talked about by politicians, perhaps if they just got to grips with basic issues like the one below, there wouldn't be the need to keep adding new taxes in the first place.

    Why isn't more being done about the foreign eBay sellers who cheat us all by not paying VAT?

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/isnt-more-being-done-foreign-4982416

    VAT is defined by HMRC as Value-added tax (VAT) is due on any supply of goods or services made in the United Kingdom (UK), where it is a taxable supply made by a taxable person in the course or furtherance of a business carried on by said person.

    IANAL/IANAA but there appears to be two issues.

    Firstly if the good are supplied from say China, and I believe they almost always are, the article rather begs the questions, but in my experience of buy cheap gear on EBay it almost always arrives with Hong Kong postal stamps attached. This is clearly good supplied from outside the UK/EU and no VAT is due, they win, ain't globalisation great.

    If they good are supplied from inside the UK, they clearly VAT is due, but since the chinese seller is outside the jurisdiction of the UK courts, they are going to have, and particularly if he is in China, they are going to have a hard time doing much about it.
    I don't understand this. Surely VAT is payable only n entry in the UK (if from outwith the EU). I buy stuff from overseas and HMRC most certainly levy VAT on each parcel above a certain taxable value (which includes carriage) - about £15 or thereabouts. (Import duty may be payable as well, above a certain, usually much larger, value.)

    HMRC used to be very casual about it but in recent years, no doubt to pay for certain big companies etc., they have become much more rigorous (and slower - the parcel takes longer sitting in a warehouse somewhere waiting for Customs than it does for the rest of its trip). And then the Post Office charge a fee of about £16 [edit] to collect the VAT for HMRC.

    The implication of the article is that the true value of the goods is not being declared by the vendor.
  • felix said:

    Neil said:

    felix said:

    Neil said:

    If I were Labour I'd start advertising how much lower pensioner incomes are now as a result of the Coalition's decision to increases many pensions in line with CPI rather than RPI. Should dent the Tory grey vote a little.

    Not a chance - pensioners are the only group whose income has grown since 2010 - and quite substantially thanks to the personal allowance rises.
    That still doesnt change the fact that they are billions worse off from the Chancellors grab on their pension increases.

    You can't be worse off from a hypothetical gain. Money in the pocket is what matters to real people. There's a reason why pensioners vote Tory.
    Err No. The reason why more pensioners vote Tory is because they've had more experience of Labour governments.

  • Indigo said:

    MikeK said:

    RodCrosby said:

    A slight difference of opinion developing in France...

    "Charlie Hebdo co-founder says murdered editor 'dragged' staff to death with provocative cartoons"
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebdo-founder-says-murdered-editor-dragged-staff-to-death-with-provocative-cartoons-9979104.html

    No, only the opinion of one man.
    It fails the smell test for me. These nationally revered cartoonists were chained to their desks and whipped until they produced sufficiently controversial cartoons? They could have said no, if they had and the editor had been fool enough to sack them, how many milliseconds before they got a new job given their reputations.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    The one in the centre in the cartoon is JackW.

    I never realised he was Vince Cable.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    The Pope's a tosser. He's either a craven apologist, or seeking to establish a wider puritanical alliance to forbid mockery of various religions and religious figures.

    I suspect the latter. But on this the Pope is wrong. He should remember the teachings of Jesus - "turn the other cheek".

    It was notable in this country when the Religious Hatred Bill was going through how all the church leaders joined together to try and get the provisions passed. They were, disgracefully, free riding on the coat tails of the one group in particular that was pushing.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,962
    Miss Cyclefree, according to Twitter, the Vatican's also involved in an alliance of puritanism to try and get the UN to create a new international blasphemy law.
  • Sorry - reposted Indigo's comment without mine!

    Just that I agree with Indigo - doesn't make sense and undermines the cartoonists' convinctions, which isn't fair.

    They were irreverent and full of firey opinion - and enjoyed brainstorming sessions with a big pad of paper while the news was being discussed. The editor gave them total freedom.

    The only bit that Indigo may not know - and I do - is that even if you've had a great gig in the cartooning world, Charlie Hebdo is unique, and jobs for cartoonists are hard to find.

    Most printed mags and newspapers have cut back so much; one of the reasons why Charlie Hebdo is so cherished in France is that they worked outside the establishment, much like Private Eye here.

    Ian Hislop bows to no-one - much as the Charlie Hebdo editor proclaimed as his right.

    Neither editor would ever dream of dictating to cartoonists, let alone columnists. But of course a good editor reserves the right to choose the sharpest cartoon of a selection.

    It is a collaboration of the most creative kind - and sometimes that sense of freedom (which Mike gives me, by the way) is the best ticket to creativity.

    A cartoonist reserves the right not to publish.

    Anyway, a fascinating subject.

    Indigo's absolutely right to throw doubt over this scurrilous and sour story. Even if it were true, I've known many editors who weren't exactly teddy bears!!!

    Indigo said:

    MikeK said:

    RodCrosby said:

    A slight difference of opinion developing in France...

    "Charlie Hebdo co-founder says murdered editor 'dragged' staff to death with provocative cartoons"
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebdo-founder-says-murdered-editor-dragged-staff-to-death-with-provocative-cartoons-9979104.html

    No, only the opinion of one man.
    It fails the smell test for me. These nationally revered cartoonists were chained to their desks and whipped until they produced sufficiently controversial cartoons? They could have said no, if they had and the editor had been fool enough to sack them, how many milliseconds before they got a new job given their reputations.
  • Plato said:

    Dearie me

    MPs demand Black Friday is SCRAPPED after huge discounts sparked 'scenes of disorder' with shoppers scrapping over TVs
    Commons motion laid slamming retailers for offering ‘huge discounts'
    Three MPs claim knock-down prices caused ‘scenes of disorder' last year
    The MPs call on ‘all UK retailers not to mark this event in 2015 or again’
    Comes after police were called after fighting broke out over cheap TVs

    3 prize pratts who need to step aside and let someone else be the MP.
    Greg Mulholland, Peter Bottomley and Jim Shannon.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Ed M seeks to win back the Greeny-Reds:

    "I believe tackling climate change is the most important thing I can do in politics for my children's generation," he will say. "It demands leadership and resolve. So in Paris next year, a Labour government would be pushing for global targets for reducing carbon emissions that rise every five years with regular reviews towards the long-term goal of what the science now tells us is necessary - zero net global emissions in the latter half of this century."

    Miliband will also aim some thinly veiled criticism at Prime Minister David Cameron, who he has in the past accused of ditching his previous commitments to the environment.

    "I know tackling climate change, global poverty and inequality are not as fashionable as they once were," he will say. "But I also know they are more important than ever. For me, they are not luxury items in our programme for change. They are not part of a branding exercise. They go to the heart of my beliefs and the reason why I entered politics."

    http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2390356/over-1-000-civil-society-groups-launch-campaign-for-climate-action

    Except people havent been abandoning Labour for the Greens recently because of Ed's lack of commitment to environmental issues. If he really thinks that he has badly misread the situation.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Carnyx said:

    The implication of the article is that the true value of the goods is not being declared by the vendor.

    Yes indeed. On reflection I think you are right, when you import stuff at customs you have to pay VAT and duty after all.

    I used to by bulk camera film from Guernsey many years ago, which used to arrive in packages that coincidentally were worth exactly £15.

    The fact remains, you can't exactly sue a seller in China, and you are going to have a hard job getting Ebay interested in taking action. Even if you did get his ebay account banned its the work of 10 minutes to set up a new one, he might lose any reputation, but thats the cost of doing business, and the likelihood of being found out makes it worth the risk.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Plato said:

    Dearie me

    MPs demand Black Friday is SCRAPPED after huge discounts sparked 'scenes of disorder' with shoppers scrapping over TVs
    Commons motion laid slamming retailers for offering ‘huge discounts'
    Three MPs claim knock-down prices caused ‘scenes of disorder' last year
    The MPs call on ‘all UK retailers not to mark this event in 2015 or again’
    Comes after police were called after fighting broke out over cheap TVs
    3 prize pratts who need to step aside and let someone else be the MP.
    Greg Mulholland, Peter Bottomley and Jim Shannon.

    If Jim Shannon leaves Parliament they're going to have to find a successor to the presiding idiot.
  • Cyclefree said:

    The Pope's a tosser. He's either a craven apologist, or seeking to establish a wider puritanical alliance to forbid mockery of various religions and religious figures.

    I suspect the latter. But on this the Pope is wrong. He should remember the teachings of Jesus - "turn the other cheek".

    I thought that was Gandhi ;)
  • Scrap heap

    Just seen Bobby Sol's miss.

    He truly is the Jade Dernbach of football

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30828754
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    IANAL, but English Law recognises the partial-defence of "provocation"...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provocation_in_English_law

    "The Act provided that provocation could be by anything done or said without it having to be an illegal act and the provoker and the deceased could be a third parties. If the accused was provoked, who provoked him was irrelevant."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    Indigo said:

    Carnyx said:

    The implication of the article is that the true value of the goods is not being declared by the vendor.

    Yes indeed. On reflection I think you are right, when you import stuff at customs you have to pay VAT and duty after all.

    I used to by bulk camera film from Guernsey many years ago, which used to arrive in packages that coincidentally were worth exactly £15.

    The fact remains, you can't exactly sue a seller in China, and you are going to have a hard job getting Ebay interested in taking action. Even if you did get his ebay account banned its the work of 10 minutes to set up a new one, he might lose any reputation, but thats the cost of doing business, and the likelihood of being found out makes it worth the risk.
    What puzzles me about all this is that if the vendor is in China then import VAT is nothing to do with him but with the person ordering the goods. Same if the vendor is nominally I the UK but the goods are sent from China. It's really the purchaser who is diddling HMRC (and only when they miss the package, which doesn't seem to happen very often these days).

    Of course if the vendor charges VAT in the UK and then sends the goods from China without paying it ...

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,016
    Having bonds that pay a higher rate of interest than the government would have to pay to borrow the same money in the gilts market is crazy. Limiting those bonds to a certain segment of the population who have also been protected from so many other consequences of the Brown bust (for which those persons of uncertain parentage voted in large numbers when they were younger) is immoral and a dishonest use of public funds.

    I am shocked, just shocked that this might happen a few months before an election.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Green Party membership surges past UKIP's. 2,000 join in one day!

    http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2015/01/15/combined-uk-green-parties’-membership-passes-ukips/

    I wonder whether the Green Party of England and Wales should reconsider the decision not to stand in as close to 100% of seats as possible. With all the extra members it would be easier to find the necessary £60,000 or so required for the deposits, and it would be good not to disappoint enthusiastic new supporters of the Greens by not having candidates for them to vote for.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Neil said:

    Ed M seeks to win back the Greeny-Reds:

    "I believe tackling climate change is the most important thing I can do in politics for my children's generation," he will say. "It demands leadership and resolve. So in Paris next year, a Labour government would be pushing for global targets for reducing carbon emissions that rise every five years with regular reviews towards the long-term goal of what the science now tells us is necessary - zero net global emissions in the latter half of this century."

    Miliband will also aim some thinly veiled criticism at Prime Minister David Cameron, who he has in the past accused of ditching his previous commitments to the environment.

    "I know tackling climate change, global poverty and inequality are not as fashionable as they once were," he will say. "But I also know they are more important than ever. For me, they are not luxury items in our programme for change. They are not part of a branding exercise. They go to the heart of my beliefs and the reason why I entered politics."

    http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2390356/over-1-000-civil-society-groups-launch-campaign-for-climate-action

    Except people havent been abandoning Labour for the Greens recently because of Ed's lack of commitment to environmental issues. If he really thinks that he has badly misread the situation.
    Ed trying to out environmentalist the Greens is going to be as futile as Cameron trying to out eurosceptic UKIP I would have thought.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Green Party membership surges past UKIP's. 2,000 join in one day!

    http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2015/01/15/combined-uk-green-parties’-membership-passes-ukips/

    I wonder whether the Green Party of England and Wales should reconsider the decision not to stand in as close to 100% of seats as possible.
    No such decision was made. The parties will stand in as many seats as they possibly can. The 500 / 75% figures are targets for the number of seats they think they can stand in. If it turns out to be 550 or more then great but it will require people in each of those constituencies to put themselves forward to stand and sort out the necessary paperwork / administration.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Scrap heap

    Just seen Bobby Sol's miss.

    He truly is the Jade Dernbach of football

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30828754

    Rosenthal's was better. And he is no Jade Dernbach. Stop hating.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,184
    Neil said:

    Ed M seeks to win back the Greeny-Reds:

    "I believe tackling climate change is the most important thing I can do in politics for my children's generation," he will say. "It demands leadership and resolve. So in Paris next year, a Labour government would be pushing for global targets for reducing carbon emissions that rise every five years with regular reviews towards the long-term goal of what the science now tells us is necessary - zero net global emissions in the latter half of this century."

    Miliband will also aim some thinly veiled criticism at Prime Minister David Cameron, who he has in the past accused of ditching his previous commitments to the environment.

    "I know tackling climate change, global poverty and inequality are not as fashionable as they once were," he will say. "But I also know they are more important than ever. For me, they are not luxury items in our programme for change. They are not part of a branding exercise. They go to the heart of my beliefs and the reason why I entered politics."

    http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2390356/over-1-000-civil-society-groups-launch-campaign-for-climate-action

    Except people havent been abandoning Labour for the Greens recently because of Ed's lack of commitment to environmental issues. If he really thinks that he has badly misread the situation.
    Yes, indeed. Many have discovered that Socialism is still alive and well in British politics, and have ditched the centre-leftism on offer from Ed.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,962
    edited January 2015
    Incidentally, from when we did the BBC weight survey (I was closest to someone from Eritrea) I've since lost some weight. Better try and stop this, or I'll end up having to buy new trousers.

    Edited extra bit: on a related note, bad news. Being bone idle's even worse than being a tub of lard:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30812439

    As a skinny, lazy fellow, this is alarming news.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Neil said:

    Ed M seeks to win back the Greeny-Reds:

    "I believe tackling climate change is the most important thing I can do in politics for my children's generation," he will say. "It demands leadership and resolve. So in Paris next year, a Labour government would be pushing for global targets for reducing carbon emissions that rise every five years with regular reviews towards the long-term goal of what the science now tells us is necessary - zero net global emissions in the latter half of this century."

    Miliband will also aim some thinly veiled criticism at Prime Minister David Cameron, who he has in the past accused of ditching his previous commitments to the environment.

    "I know tackling climate change, global poverty and inequality are not as fashionable as they once were," he will say. "But I also know they are more important than ever. For me, they are not luxury items in our programme for change. They are not part of a branding exercise. They go to the heart of my beliefs and the reason why I entered politics."

    http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2390356/over-1-000-civil-society-groups-launch-campaign-for-climate-action

    Except people havent been abandoning Labour for the Greens recently because of Ed's lack of commitment to environmental issues. If he really thinks that he has badly misread the situation.
    Yes, indeed. Many have discovered that Socialism is still alive and well in British politics, and have ditched the centre-leftism on offer from Ed.
    The irony being that Ed is probably as good a proposition in that respect as Labour are likely to offer for some time.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    edited January 2015

    Miss Cyclefree, according to Twitter, the Vatican's also involved in an alliance of puritanism to try and get the UN to create a new international blasphemy law.

    Oh dear! To be expected I suppose. But wrong. So so wrong.

    The trouble is the UN is one of those pompous organisations which sees nothing wrong in shutting down criticism and the majority of the countries in the world are unfree ones. Will we have to rely on the US with its First Amendment to hold the line?

    More immediately I do worry about what a Labour government would do. They have form. And the Leveson report is hardly protective of free speech.

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited January 2015
    RodCrosby said:

    IANAL, but English Law recognises the partial-defence of "provocation"...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provocation_in_English_law

    "The Act provided that provocation could be by anything done or said without it having to be an illegal act and the provoker and the deceased could be a third parties. If the accused was provoked, who provoked him was irrelevant."

    The top line of that article says:
    In English law, provocation was a mitigatory defence alleging a total loss of control as a response to another's provocative conduct sufficient to convert what would otherwise have been murder into manslaughter. It does not apply to any other offence. It was abolished on 4 October 2010[1] by section 56(1) of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009,[2] but replaced by a relatively similar defence of "loss of control".
    The new law says:
    S.54(1) A person who kills or was party to a killing may be convicted of manslaughter rather than murder where there exists:
    (a) a loss of self-control,
    (b) the loss of self-control had a qualifying trigger, and
    (c) a person of D's sex and age, with a normal degree of tolerance and self-restraint and in the circumstances of D, might have reacted in the same or in a similar way to D.
    Strikes me that (c) might be a tough hill to climb if you just killed a cartoonist because you didn't like his cartoons, and even more so if (as is alleged) you killed him because you didn't like what some American soldiers did in Iraq in 2004.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    DavidL said:

    Having bonds that pay a higher rate of interest than the government would have to pay to borrow the same money in the gilts market is crazy. Limiting those bonds to a certain segment of the population who have also been protected from so many other consequences of the Brown bust (for which those persons of uncertain parentage voted in large numbers when they were younger) is immoral and a dishonest use of public funds.

    I am shocked, just shocked that this might happen a few months before an election.

    Sadly, not even the lack of criticism of this move is shocking, so inured to this sort of thing have we become.

    And yet there are still Tory supporters who pretend that it is only Labour who are financially irresponsible and use the Exchequer to buy votes.
  • Neil said:

    Scrap heap

    Just seen Bobby Sol's miss.

    He truly is the Jade Dernbach of football

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30828754

    Rosenthal's was better. And he is no Jade Dernbach. Stop hating.
    I've always liked this miss

    http://youtu.be/59sG34Nx-DY
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Incidentally, from when we did the BBC weight survey (I was closest to someone from Eritrea) I've since lost some weight. Better try and stop this, or I'll end up having to buy new trousers.

    Edited extra bit: on a related note, bad news. Being bone idle's even worse than being a tub of lard:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30812439

    As a skinny, lazy fellow, this is alarming news.

    Time to get thee to a parkrun I think: http://www.parkrun.org.uk/events/events/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,962
    edited January 2015
    Mr. Me, not sure cardio paves the way to weight gain.

    *sighs* I suppose I shall have to commit the sin of gluttony and have a magnum this afternoon.

    Edited extra bit: sorry, thought you were referring to the weight rather than idleness.

    I may exaggerate slightly. I normally do light exercise 4-5 times a week.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Neil said:

    Green Party membership surges past UKIP's. 2,000 join in one day!

    http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2015/01/15/combined-uk-green-parties’-membership-passes-ukips/

    I wonder whether the Green Party of England and Wales should reconsider the decision not to stand in as close to 100% of seats as possible.
    No such decision was made. The parties will stand in as many seats as they possibly can. The 500 / 75% figures are targets for the number of seats they think they can stand in. If it turns out to be 550 or more then great but it will require people in each of those constituencies to put themselves forward to stand and sort out the necessary paperwork / administration.
    Ah, I see. Thanks
  • Surely after 5 years of The Coalition actually making cuts the astonishing fact is that more voters still blame Labour ?
    I would point out that averaging the Polls so far this Month Labour are about 0.7% ahead, last Month it was 3.2%. A 2.5% drop in less than a month is significant I think. PB is a great site but it does have a long-standing tendenct to big-up Labour & run down The Libdems.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited January 2015
    The miss which launched a fanzine in Brighton. (6.37 on the clip).

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d4-lFjGnUA
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Mr. Me, not sure cardio paves the way to weight gain.

    *sighs* I suppose I shall have to commit the sin of gluttony and have a magnum this afternoon.

    Edited extra bit: sorry, thought you were referring to the weight rather than idleness.

    I may exaggerate slightly. I normally do light exercise 4-5 times a week.

    Oh, I don't know. I see a lot of muscles on the legs of runners at parkrun. That has to weigh a bit. And then there's the post-run tea and cake... which is particularly effective for your purposes if you have it after handing out the finish tokens and not running anywhere. ;-)
This discussion has been closed.