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If you’re going to be up, All Night Long, why not relax, and converse into the night on the day’s events in PB NightHawks.

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Scrapheap_as_was

5-3!

TheScreamingEagles

I'm really proud of link 16

RobD

Conservative weak on welfare? I thought people generally approved of cracking down on benefit scroungers?

Scrapheap_as_was

Can someone tell me the no. of A&E's with a major incident VS the number that aren't?

Context, context.

Thank you.

TGOHF

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm really proud of link 16

Turned into sausages ? Surely burghers ?

RobD

TGOHF said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm really proud of link 16

Turned into sausages ? Surely burghers ?

Hopefully knockwurst, with a little swastika on them...

TheScreamingEagles

I thought it was only PB Tories complaining about the Mansion tax

Diane Abbott: Jim Murphy’s mansion-tax boast is a cynical attempt to buy Scottish votes

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/06/mansion-tax-london-jim-murphy-scotland-labour

Smarmeron

@Scrapheap_as_was

You could text the very reassuring Jeremy Hunt for an answer?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30696279

maaarsh

I saw link 2 earlier today - clearly put together by a muppet, Welfare is a great conversation topic for the tories and is pretty salient too

isam

This must have just missed the cut off point for Nighthawks

Grant Shapps answers planted questions from Tory activists on LBC

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/grant-shapps-faces-planted-questions-on-lbc-before-coming-up-against-a-real-voter/

RobD

isam said:

This must have just missed the cut off point for Nighthawks

Grant Shapps answers planted questions from Tory activists on LBC

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/grant-shapps-faces-planted-questions-on-lbc-before-coming-up-against-a-real-voter/

Shock horror, supporters try and big up their own party! Happens all the time, you just hope the editor can try to get some semblance of balance (often a problem on QT!)

foxinsoxuk

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Can someone tell me the no. of A&E's with a major incident VS the number that aren't?

Context, context.

Thank you.

I believe there are 146 with Emergency Departments, with 6 having declared a major incident. Many of the remaining 140 are on stage 3 alert (stage 4 being Major Incident).

This is often the worst week of the year, but not always a good bounceback.

TGOHF

RobD said:

TGOHF said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm really proud of link 16

Turned into sausages ? Surely burghers ?

Hopefully knockwurst, with a little swastika on them...

Produce of a market garden I assume ?

JamesM

I completely agree with the need for a massive public information campaign on the uses of A and E. Another issue is the labelling. I am sympathetic to the idea that we drop the Accident part from the title and just call them Emergency rooms.

In my parents area the local A and E was downgraded to an Urgent Care Centre, but this to me also sounds like the location to go with a serious illness (when it is not appropriate for some I think) and does not capture the more routine accidents it also deals with. I wonder whether this Urgent Care Centre label is utilised as a PR exercise to make a downgrade not seem as serious, but I find it confusing. You then get minor injury units too. Perhaps we just have Emergency Units and Minor Injury Units?

Of course none of these changes will deal with bed management challenges in hospitals, GP accessibility and a general rise in demand which it seems are also three issues to be dealt with.

Ave_it

Ave It latest GE projection:

CON 297
LAB 278
LD 35
SNP 15
PC 5
GRN 1
UKIP 1
NI 18

Chris_A

Richard Tyndall I said primary care organisation. Your hospital trust is not a primary care organization.

bigjohnowls

foxinsoxuk said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Can someone tell me the no. of A&E's with a major incident VS the number that aren't?

Context, context.

Thank you.

I believe there are 146 with Emergency Departments, with 6 having declared a major incident. Many of the remaining 140 are on stage 3 alert (stage 4 being Major Incident).

This is often the worst week of the year, but not always a good bounceback.

10 organisations listed below affecting 13 hospitals have called stage 4 in last 2 days as far as i know


Gloucestershire Royal Hospital
Cheltenham General Hospital
Scarborough Hospital
Croydon University Hospital
Royal Stoke in Staffordshire
Norfolk and Norwich Hospital
Peterborough City Hospital
St Peter's Hospital, Surrey
Ashford Hospital, Surrey
Bolton NHS Foundation Trust

This is also completely unprecedented as far as i am aware.

Are you aware of this ever happening to this extent before foxinsoxuk?

Chris_A

foxinsoxuk said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Can someone tell me the no. of A&E's with a major incident VS the number that aren't?

Context, context.

Thank you.

I believe there are 146 with Emergency Departments, with 6 having declared a major incident. Many of the remaining 140 are on stage 3 alert (stage 4 being Major Incident).

This is often the worst week of the year, but not always a good bounceback.

We've been at level 3 many times over the last few weeks. Is suspect now that a few have put their heads above the parapet there will be many more.

philiph

JamesM said:

I completely agree with the need for a massive public information campaign on the uses of A and E. Another issue is the labelling. I am sympathetic to the idea that we drop the Accident part from the title and just call them Emergency rooms.

In my parents area the local A and E was downgraded to an Urgent Care Centre, but this to me also sounds like the location to go with a serious illness (when it is not appropriate for some I think) and does not capture the more routine accidents it also deals with. I wonder whether this Urgent Care Centre label is utilised as a PR exercise to make a downgrade not seem as serious, but I find it confusing. You then get minor injury units too. Perhaps we just have Emergency Units and Minor Injury Units?

Of course none of these changes will deal with bed management challenges in hospitals, GP accessibility and a general rise in demand which it seems are also three issues to be dealt with.

Maybe it would be easier to make GPs see their patients and knock about 30% off the numbers attending A&E.

Two problems solved. GPs earn their corn and A&E less crowded.

bigjohnowls

bigjohnowls said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Can someone tell me the no. of A&E's with a major incident VS the number that aren't?

Context, context.

Thank you.

I believe there are 146 with Emergency Departments, with 6 having declared a major incident. Many of the remaining 140 are on stage 3 alert (stage 4 being Major Incident).

This is often the worst week of the year, but not always a good bounceback.

10 organisations listed below affecting 13 hospitals have called stage 4 in last 2 days as far as i know


Gloucestershire Royal Hospital
Cheltenham General Hospital
Scarborough Hospital
Croydon University Hospital
Royal Stoke in Staffordshire
Norfolk and Norwich Hospital
Peterborough City Hospital
St Peter's Hospital, Surrey
Ashford Hospital, Surrey
Bolton NHS Foundation Trust

This is also completely unprecedented as far as i am aware.

Are you aware of this ever happening to this extent before foxinsoxuk?

Also Walsall Manor Hospital still at level 4 I think

Chris_A

philiph said:

Maybe it would be easier to make GPs see their patients and knock about 30% off the numbers attending A&E.

Two problems solved. GPs earn their corn and A&E less crowded.

Ah the myth that GPs spend half their days lounging around. Of course many of them are running CCGs these days rather than seeing patients.

We are ranked 23rd in the EU for the number of doctors per head of population - and 37% of them were trained abroad - it's a scandal of the last Labour government and the Tory one before it that this deficiency hasn't been tackled.

TheWatcher

4 months before an election, and NHS staff have a handy stick with which to beat a government they despise. Toss in an ignorant populace unused or unable to wait for anything, and GPs on cushy contracts, and it's hardly a surprise that there's a 'crisis'.

bigjohnowls

TheWatcher said:

4 months before an election, and NHS staff have a handy stick with which to beat a government they despise. Toss in an ignorant populace unused or unable to wait for anything, and GPs on cushy contracts, and it's hardly a surprise that there's a 'crisis'.

That must be it.

You are still in denial that there is a crisis i see.

NickPalmer

TheWatcher said:

4 months before an election, and NHS staff have a handy stick with which to beat a government they despise. Toss in an ignorant populace unused or unable to wait for anything, and GPs on cushy contracts, and it's hardly a surprise that there's a 'crisis'.

It's the staff! It's the GPs! It's the entire POPULATION!

Poor Mr Cameron.

Danny565

RobD said:

Conservative weak on welfare? I thought people generally approved of cracking down on benefit scroungers?

They might approve of cracking down on scroungers in theory, but they (a) don't like it when their friends and family who they know to be good, honest people get hit rather than the dishonest scroungers they hear about in the media who really are gaming the system, and (b ) they don't like it when the cracking down is coming from rich people who, as they see it, don't understand what it's like to be struggling.

GeoffM

JamesM said:

I completely agree with the need for a massive public information campaign on the uses of A and E. Another issue is the labelling. I am sympathetic to the idea that we drop the Accident part from the title and just call them Emergency rooms.

In my parents area the local A and E was downgraded to an Urgent Care Centre, but this to me also sounds like the location to go with a serious illness (when it is not appropriate for some I think) and does not capture the more routine accidents it also deals with. I wonder whether this Urgent Care Centre label is utilised as a PR exercise to make a downgrade not seem as serious, but I find it confusing. You then get minor injury units too. Perhaps we just have Emergency Units and Minor Injury Units?

Of course none of these changes will deal with bed management challenges in hospitals, GP accessibility and a general rise in demand which it seems are also three issues to be dealt with.

I see what you're driving at here, but you have to remember how stupid the average person actually is. You'd think that it was obvious that Police 999 was just for emergencies, wouldn't you?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6918327/Police-compile-list-of-most-ridiculous-time-wasting-999-calls.html

I applaud your thinking processes but you can't beat Darwin.

isam

Charge people who are twice the drink drive limit to use A&E

TheWatcher

NickPalmer said:

TheWatcher said:

4 months before an election, and NHS staff have a handy stick with which to beat a government they despise. Toss in an ignorant populace unused or unable to wait for anything, and GPs on cushy contracts, and it's hardly a surprise that there's a 'crisis'.

It's the staff! It's the GPs! It's the entire POPULATION!

Poor Mr Cameron.

Still, things would be much worse under Labour. Wales proves that.

TheWatcher

bigjohnowls said:

TheWatcher said:

4 months before an election, and NHS staff have a handy stick with which to beat a government they despise. Toss in an ignorant populace unused or unable to wait for anything, and GPs on cushy contracts, and it's hardly a surprise that there's a 'crisis'.

That must be it.

You are still in denial that there is a crisis i see.

The previous government are as much to blame, Alan Johnson in particular for the appalling negotiation with GPs.

Carry on waving your shroud!

bigjohnowls

Chris_A said:

philiph said:

Maybe it would be easier to make GPs see their patients and knock about 30% off the numbers attending A&E.

Two problems solved. GPs earn their corn and A&E less crowded.

Ah the myth that GPs spend half their days lounging around. Of course many of them are running CCGs these days rather than seeing patients.

We are ranked 23rd in the EU for the number of doctors per head of population - and 37% of them were trained abroad - it's a scandal of the last Labour government and the Tory one before it that this deficiency hasn't been tackled.

Throw in a pay freeze and the fact you get paid more or less the same on a less stressful ward compared to A&E and not surprising there is a crisis.

Add to that the A&E marginal tariff and commissioners have a cheap option compared to a proper out of hrs service.

The fact more GPs are retiring early due to primary care pressures and the ramped up performance measures and you have the perfect storm for a crisis.

In Chesterfield the Acute Trust has had a 14% reduction in real Turnover since 2010 but has circa 40% extra patients visiting.

Where has the NHS money actually gone is both Primary Care and Secondary Care is getting less? Mr Lansley perhaps you could explain!!!

Charles

@cyclefree fpt

4 hours to treatment is probably the wrong target.

I'd rather see a shorter target to a triage. At that point you'd be directed either to an ER or to a co-located GP function for primary care. Clearly would take time and money to introduce the co-location although it already happens in some hospitals.

Longer term, we need to shift DGHs towards acute only and centres of excellence and then to have many more -smaller and more local - hospitals for chronic recovery (possibly co-located with social care facilities)

Scrapheap_as_was

foxinsoxuk said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Can someone tell me the no. of A&E's with a major incident VS the number that aren't?

Context, context.

Thank you.

I believe there are 146 with Emergency Departments, with 6 having declared a major incident. Many of the remaining 140 are on stage 3 alert (stage 4 being Major Incident).

This is often the worst week of the year, but not always a good bounceback.

Thank you.

Anecdote - my wife went to NHS 'drop in' y'day afternoon - she waited 20 minutes to see a GP and was prescribed anti bios. Doctor at the Drop-in said she could ask her GP to perform 'procedure' if need it.

She then went to our GP today at 9am, after her appointment requested by phone at 4pm y'day.

The GP suggested as the required 'treatment' isn't done at their practice as not sterile enough, she should go to A&E if wanted procedure done....

Impressive I thought - until the GP solution - absolutely not an A&E but yet that's where she's told to go to get a small medical intervention done?

bigjohnowls

TheWatcher said:

NickPalmer said:

TheWatcher said:

4 months before an election, and NHS staff have a handy stick with which to beat a government they despise. Toss in an ignorant populace unused or unable to wait for anything, and GPs on cushy contracts, and it's hardly a surprise that there's a 'crisis'.

It's the staff! It's the GPs! It's the entire POPULATION!

Poor Mr Cameron.

Still, things would be much worse under Labour. Wales proves that.

Titter this isnt going to work you know

TwistedFireStopper

GeoffM said:

JamesM said:

I completely agree with the need for a massive public information campaign on the uses of A and E. Another issue is the labelling. I am sympathetic to the idea that we drop the Accident part from the title and just call them Emergency rooms.

In my parents area the local A and E was downgraded to an Urgent Care Centre, but this to me also sounds like the location to go with a serious illness (when it is not appropriate for some I think) and does not capture the more routine accidents it also deals with. I wonder whether this Urgent Care Centre label is utilised as a PR exercise to make a downgrade not seem as serious, but I find it confusing. You then get minor injury units too. Perhaps we just have Emergency Units and Minor Injury Units?

Of course none of these changes will deal with bed management challenges in hospitals, GP accessibility and a general rise in demand which it seems are also three issues to be dealt with.

I see what you're driving at here, but you have to remember how stupid the average person actually is. You'd think that it was obvious that Police 999 was just for emergencies, wouldn't you?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6918327/Police-compile-list-of-most-ridiculous-time-wasting-999-calls.html

I applaud your thinking processes but you can't beat Darwin.

I love how a lot of posters on here feel so superior to the plebs. It's one of the reasons I lurk around so much, I'm hoping some of the stardust sticks to me.

Scrapheap_as_was

NickPalmer said:

TheWatcher said:

4 months before an election, and NHS staff have a handy stick with which to beat a government they despise. Toss in an ignorant populace unused or unable to wait for anything, and GPs on cushy contracts, and it's hardly a surprise that there's a 'crisis'.

It's the staff! It's the GPs! It's the entire POPULATION!

Poor Mr Cameron.

Mid-staffs.

Casino_Royale

Ave_it said:

Ave It latest GE projection:

CON 297
LAB 278
LD 35
SNP 15
PC 5
GRN 1
UKIP 1
NI 18

What? No Con Gain Glasgow Central?

bigjohnowls

TheWatcher said:

bigjohnowls said:

TheWatcher said:

4 months before an election, and NHS staff have a handy stick with which to beat a government they despise. Toss in an ignorant populace unused or unable to wait for anything, and GPs on cushy contracts, and it's hardly a surprise that there's a 'crisis'.

That must be it.

You are still in denial that there is a crisis i see.

The previous government are as much to blame, Alan Johnson in particular for the appalling negotiation with GPs.

Carry on waving your shroud!

Of course and yet it took 10 years to become a problem.

Early retirement rates are at an all time high from NHS As new pension kicks in April 2015 and the pay freeze continuesexpect a further acceleration in next few months

Speedy

Ave_it said:

Ave It latest GE projection:

CON 297
LAB 278
LD 35
SNP 15
PC 5
GRN 1
UKIP 1
NI 18

So no Tory majority nailed on?

Casino_Royale

I love the real Jim Murphy @ link 13.

Danny565

The NHS remains one of Labour's best cards, and their policy on it is smart politics, but they have to be careful with how "negative" they go in attacking the Tories on it. What they say might be true, but fairly or unfairly, I really think at this point people tune out anything a politician says which is packaged as some shrill hyper-partisan attack on the other side (which is why the Tories' "spending bombshell" thing will also probably do nothing).

TheWatcher

bigjohnowls said:

TheWatcher said:

NickPalmer said:

TheWatcher said:

4 months before an election, and NHS staff have a handy stick with which to beat a government they despise. Toss in an ignorant populace unused or unable to wait for anything, and GPs on cushy contracts, and it's hardly a surprise that there's a 'crisis'.

It's the staff! It's the GPs! It's the entire POPULATION!

Poor Mr Cameron.

Still, things would be much worse under Labour. Wales proves that.

Titter this isnt going to work you know

Yes. The media narrative will move on to something else long before May.

Speedy

On link 16, TSE has outdone himself.
Those were really Nazi engineered bred cows.

TheWatcher

bigjohnowls said:

TheWatcher said:

bigjohnowls said:

TheWatcher said:

4 months before an election, and NHS staff have a handy stick with which to beat a government they despise. Toss in an ignorant populace unused or unable to wait for anything, and GPs on cushy contracts, and it's hardly a surprise that there's a 'crisis'.

That must be it.

You are still in denial that there is a crisis i see.

The previous government are as much to blame, Alan Johnson in particular for the appalling negotiation with GPs.

Carry on waving your shroud!

Of course and yet it took 10 years to become a problem.

Early retirement rates are at an all time high from NHS As new pension kicks in April 2015 and the pay freeze continuesexpect a further acceleration in next few months

Sums it up nicely. Staff more concerned with their own well being that patient care.

Dimitry

Momentarily de-lurking for:

Good Will Hunting in my pants

Scott_P

Dimitry said:

Momentarily de-lurking for:

Good Will Hunting in my pants

Like

Chris_A

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Mid-staffs.

What about it?

glw

isam said:

Charge people who are twice the drink drive limit to use A&E

Honestly, why even treat them? Maybe they'd think twice in future if the knew they'd get no treatment.

foxinsoxuk

bigjohnowls said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Can someone tell me the no. of A&E's with a major incident VS the number that aren't?

Context, context.

Thank you.

I believe there are 146 with Emergency Departments, with 6 having declared a major incident. Many of the remaining 140 are on stage 3 alert (stage 4 being Major Incident).

This is often the worst week of the year, but not always a good bounceback.

10 organisations listed below affecting 13 hospitals have called stage 4 in last 2 days as far as i know


Gloucestershire Royal Hospital
Cheltenham General Hospital
Scarborough Hospital
Croydon University Hospital
Royal Stoke in Staffordshire
Norfolk and Norwich Hospital
Peterborough City Hospital
St Peter's Hospital, Surrey
Ashford Hospital, Surrey
Bolton NHS Foundation Trust

This is also completely unprecedented as far as i am aware.

Are you aware of this ever happening to this extent before foxinsoxuk?

I think you have missed United Lincolnshire Hospitals (Lincoln, Boston, Grantham) as well as Scarborough.

But to be honest, I have seen plenty of similar crises in the NHS over the years. I believe that the crisis started in 1948. The nature of the crisis fluctuates over time, but it never really goes away.

When I qualified in 1988 I would often start the Medical take with no medical beds, and a large part of the Housemans job was bed management and co-ordinating services.

Actually (and none of the parties will admit it in Election season) there is real cross party consensus about the NHS. Call it LibLabConKipSnp if you like!

They agree on the causes of the crisis (and it is a multifactoral perfect storm) and even on most of the solutions (the Better Care Together fund devised by Lamb and Hunt is in reality siphoning off NHS funds to maintain council services).

The things that are not mentioned are "rationing" and "co-payment" both of which are viable ways to manage demand.

Chris_A

foxinsoxuk said:

The things that are not mentioned are "rationing" and "co-payment" both of which are viable ways to manage demand.

Well NICE were managing rationing quite effectively until the Tories drove a coach and horses through it with the ludicrous Cancer Drugs Fund

foxinsoxuk

Dimitry said:

Momentarily de-lurking for:

Good Will Hunting in my pants

Perhaps I should keep quiet about Winnie the Pooh in my pants.

isam

glw said:

isam said:

Charge people who are twice the drink drive limit to use A&E

Honestly, why even treat them? Maybe they'd think twice in future if the knew they'd get no treatment.

That would be too harsh IMO, but people have to realise that they cant just behave how they want and expect the state to mop up after them

Then again, our whole benefits system, originally intended to be no more than a safety net against REAL poverty, is now the ultimate disincentive machine

foxinsoxuk

Chris_A said:

foxinsoxuk said:

The things that are not mentioned are "rationing" and "co-payment" both of which are viable ways to manage demand.

Well NICE were managing rationing quite effectively until the Tories drove a coach and horses through it with the ludicrous Cancer Drugs Fund

Exactly. Rationing is too controversial.

I take it you are in my line of work?

GeoffM

TwistedFireStopper said:

GeoffM said:

JamesM said:

I completely agree with the need for a massive public information campaign on the uses of A and E. Another issue is the labelling. I am sympathetic to the idea that we drop the Accident part from the title and just call them Emergency rooms.

In my parents area the local A and E was downgraded to an Urgent Care Centre, but this to me also sounds like the location to go with a serious illness (when it is not appropriate for some I think) and does not capture the more routine accidents it also deals with. I wonder whether this Urgent Care Centre label is utilised as a PR exercise to make a downgrade not seem as serious, but I find it confusing. You then get minor injury units too. Perhaps we just have Emergency Units and Minor Injury Units?

Of course none of these changes will deal with bed management challenges in hospitals, GP accessibility and a general rise in demand which it seems are also three issues to be dealt with.

I see what you're driving at here, but you have to remember how stupid the average person actually is. You'd think that it was obvious that Police 999 was just for emergencies, wouldn't you?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6918327/Police-compile-list-of-most-ridiculous-time-wasting-999-calls.html

I applaud your thinking processes but you can't beat Darwin.

I love how a lot of posters on here feel so superior to the plebs. It's one of the reasons I lurk around so much, I'm hoping some of the stardust sticks to me.

JamesM makes a constructive suggestion which in reality would unfortunately not help people who do not understand what an emergency service is for - as evidenced by my link,

Of all the posters on here I'd have thought you'd be the first and best one to step forward and refine James' ideas. With the nudge of a professional at the sharp end of the emergency services there's a constructive suggestion brewing here.

But instead you are sarcastic. Yay. Go You.

kle4

16. Nazi cows? Is this South Park and the Stick of Truth or something?

3. No one would have expected them to say anything else I guess. I'm sure they can still play the tax the rich card along with the rest of the rest of the team.

2. That's some very limited ground for the Tories to need the conversation to focus on in order to win, seems a challenge. Looking at how low a priority defence is to voters, it's no wonder it's been allowed to become such a basket case. I am surprised weldare is listed so low. The NHS will continue to weaken the Tories, no matter how badly Labour do with it.

1. Has been expected for awhile I gather. With the party gutted in a few months, I doubt he'll mind any personal slight now.

9. We can hope. Not sure who will be able to turn the situation most to their advantage though. Probably the SNP, as their aims are simpler to achieve. I am interested in seeing how well the LDs might recover when Labour start cutting as well, perhaps with the aid of the SNP.

7. I doubt anything need be said that has not already on this one!. If only the economic backdrop were helping the Tories, maybe they would have more of a chance.

john_zims

@bigjohnowls

'Of course and yet it took 10 years to become a problem.'

Increase the population by 4 million and cut GP'S working hours,not that complicated.

Speedy

I remember that I predicted 10 years of cheap oil and 40$ a barrel a few months ago:

http://business.financialpost.com/2015/01/05/oil-price-falls-below-50/?__lsa=1fdf-1549
"Oil falls below $50 as global glut worsens; traders see $40 before week end"
By the way that was yesterday and today oil has fallen another 2$ to bellow 48$ per barrel.

There might be some panic selling going on, but until the gap between supply and demand closes the price will still keep on falling.
Good news for consumers, bad news for London real estate.

AlastairMeeks

Evening all. I'm a bit more optimistic for the SNP's chances than Ave It, I see:

http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/bedtime-stories-extending-my-thoughts.html

kle4

Speedy said:

Good news for consumers, bad news for London real estate.

I shall be struck with sympathy for those affected in London.

Ok, in fairness, I'm sure it won't be nice, but nice for other people to get something at least short term decent for a bit.

Speedy

antifrank said:

Evening all. I'm a bit more optimistic for the SNP's chances than Ave It, I see:

http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/bedtime-stories-extending-my-thoughts.html

Based on the referendum results and assuming that everyone who voted YES will vote SNP then I say 47 seats for them.

glw

isam said:

glw said:

isam said:

Charge people who are twice the drink drive limit to use A&E

Honestly, why even treat them? Maybe they'd think twice in future if the knew they'd get no treatment.

That would be too harsh IMO, but people have to realise that they cant just behave how they want and expect the state to mop up after them

You are right, if only because making such a determination quickly would be impossible, but I don't have much sympathy for people who are in A&E, or needing the attention of paramedics, due to getting hammered and then injured.

I'd be impressed if any party was really serious about tackling our drinking culture.

bigjohnowls

foxinsoxuk said:

bigjohnowls said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Can someone tell me the no. of A&E's with a major incident VS the number that aren't?

Context, context.

Thank you.

I believe there are 146 with Emergency Departments, with 6 having declared a major incident. Many of the remaining 140 are on stage 3 alert (stage 4 being Major Incident).

This is often the worst week of the year, but not always a good bounceback.

10 organisations listed below affecting 13 hospitals have called stage 4 in last 2 days as far as i know


Gloucestershire Royal Hospital
Cheltenham General Hospital
Scarborough Hospital
Croydon University Hospital
Royal Stoke in Staffordshire
Norfolk and Norwich Hospital
Peterborough City Hospital
St Peter's Hospital, Surrey
Ashford Hospital, Surrey
Bolton NHS Foundation Trust

This is also completely unprecedented as far as i am aware.

Are you aware of this ever happening to this extent before foxinsoxuk?

I think you have missed United Lincolnshire Hospitals (Lincoln, Boston, Grantham) as well as Scarborough.

But to be honest, I have seen plenty of similar crises in the NHS over the years. I believe that the crisis started in 1948. The nature of the crisis fluctuates over time, but it never really goes away.

When I qualified in 1988 I would often start the Medical take with no medical beds, and a large part of the Housemans job was bed management and co-ordinating services.

Actually (and none of the parties will admit it in Election season) there is real cross party consensus about the NHS. Call it LibLabConKipSnp if you like!

They agree on the causes of the crisis (and it is a multifactoral perfect storm) and even on most of the solutions (the Better Care Together fund devised by Lamb and Hunt is in reality siphoning off NHS funds to maintain council services).

The things that are not mentioned are "rationing" and "co-payment" both of which are viable ways to manage demand.

I can honestly say I have never heard of this number of Acute hospitals calling a major incident.

The Better Care Fund has robbed £3.8bn from NHS and I have had a council chief executive brag that they call it the pot hole fund because they can spend it on that if they want.

GE2015 BCF will explode the Govt claim of real terms increases out of the water (another prediction)

NickPalmer

glw said:

isam said:

Charge people who are twice the drink drive limit to use A&E

Honestly, why even treat them? Maybe they'd think twice in future if the knew they'd get no treatment.

10 years or so ago I proposed that there should be a separate, low-priority, waiting room for A&E patients who were drunk. Firstly, it would mean that the sober but ill people could get faster treatment and secondly it would avoid cluttering up the joint waiting room with people throwing up, shouting and so on. constituents generally thought this a very good idea, but it was unanimously opposed by everyone who responded who actually worked in A&E. They said that the fact that someone is drunk doesn't mean they're not also ill, and I'd simply be introducing another layer of triage as they struggled to do a prior "Is he just drunk or..." assessment.

I wasn't totally convinced - this seemd to be a staff-oriented argument ("put everyone in one room, simpler for us") rather than a patient-oriented one. But I could see we couldn't really force the system onto reluctant staff.

compouter2

bigjohnowls said:

foxinsoxuk said:

bigjohnowls said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Can someone tell me the no. of A&E's with a major incident VS the number that aren't?

Context, context.

Thank you.

I believe there are 146 with Emergency Departments, with 6 having declared a major incident. Many of the remaining 140 are on stage 3 alert (stage 4 being Major Incident).

This is often the worst week of the year, but not always a good bounceback.

10 organisations listed below affecting 13 hospitals have called stage 4 in last 2 days as far as i know


Gloucestershire Royal Hospital
Cheltenham General Hospital
Scarborough Hospital
Croydon University Hospital
Royal Stoke in Staffordshire
Norfolk and Norwich Hospital
Peterborough City Hospital
St Peter's Hospital, Surrey
Ashford Hospital, Surrey
Bolton NHS Foundation Trust

This is also completely unprecedented as far as i am aware.

Are you aware of this ever happening to this extent before foxinsoxuk?

I think you have missed United Lincolnshire Hospitals (Lincoln, Boston, Grantham) as well as Scarborough.

But to be honest, I have seen plenty of similar crises in the NHS over the years. I believe that the crisis started in 1948. The nature of the crisis fluctuates over time, but it never really goes away.

When I qualified in 1988 I would often start the Medical take with no medical beds, and a large part of the Housemans job was bed management and co-ordinating services.

Actually (and none of the parties will admit it in Election season) there is real cross party consensus about the NHS. Call it LibLabConKipSnp if you like!

They agree on the causes of the crisis (and it is a multifactoral perfect storm) and even on most of the solutions (the Better Care Together fund devised by Lamb and Hunt is in reality siphoning off NHS funds to maintain council services).

The things that are not mentioned are "rationing" and "co-payment" both of which are viable ways to manage demand.

I can honestly say I have never heard of this number of Acute hospitals calling a major incident.

The Better Care Fund has robbed £3.8bn from NHS and I have had a council chief executive brag that they call it the pot hole fund because they can spend it on that if they want.

GE2015 BCF will explode the Govt claim of real terms increases out of the water (another prediction)

What happened to the South East mansion riots. Not heard a thing from it today. Word on PB last night was it was gamechanger #467.

isam

NickPalmer said:

glw said:

isam said:

Charge people who are twice the drink drive limit to use A&E

Honestly, why even treat them? Maybe they'd think twice in future if the knew they'd get no treatment.

10 years or so ago I proposed that there should be a separate, low-priority, waiting room for A&E patients who were drunk. Firstly, it would mean that the sober but ill people could get faster treatment and secondly it would avoid cluttering up the joint waiting room with people throwing up, shouting and so on. constituents generally thought this a very good idea, but it was unanimously opposed by everyone who responded who actually worked in A&E. They said that the fact that someone is drunk doesn't mean they're not also ill, and I'd simply be introducing another layer of triage as they struggled to do a prior "Is he just drunk or..." assessment.

I wasn't totally convinced - this seemd to be a staff-oriented argument ("put everyone in one room, simpler for us") rather than a patient-oriented one. But I could see we couldn't really force the system onto reluctant staff.

"...they struggled to do a prior "Is he just drunk or..." assessment.

What??!?!

Breathalyser??

Speedy

kle4 said:

Speedy said:

Good news for consumers, bad news for London real estate.

I shall be struck with sympathy for those affected in London.

Ok, in fairness, I'm sure it won't be nice, but nice for other people to get something at least short term decent for a bit.

Actually it's more than London real estate, it's the oil sector, gas sector, renewable energy, luxury goods and status symbols like supercars, jewelry, designer clothes and handbags, apple computer products, art, auctions, even the premier league.
Essentially every category that wealthy oilmen spend their money on.

But cheap cars and cheap air flights are the future now with cheap oil.

Scott_P

@ZoraSuleman: They could just promise to save the NHS but - Tories bring in Ann Summers boss to sort their election campaign http://t.co/EWJe3eUD7D

Ave_it

Speedy said:

Ave_it said:

Ave It latest GE projection:

CON 297
LAB 278
LD 35
SNP 15
PC 5
GRN 1
UKIP 1
NI 18

So no Tory majority nailed on?

Not at the moment! But as you know projections can change!

Chris_A

foxinsoxuk said:

I take it you are in my line of work?

Yes. My Trust has been at level 3 practically since Christmas and many departmental members volunteered for hours extra work at the weekend to get patients discharged or else we'd have declared a major incident by now. But hey, the like of The Watcher think we're all in it just to line our own pockets. If it's anyone lining their pockets it'll the likes of former health ministers with their links to firms currently carving up the NHS.

Casino_Royale

antifrank said:

Evening all. I'm a bit more optimistic for the SNP's chances than Ave It, I see:

http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/bedtime-stories-extending-my-thoughts.html

Very good. I'm on a few of those. Just wish I'd got on earlier.

isam

glw said:

isam said:

glw said:

isam said:

Charge people who are twice the drink drive limit to use A&E

Honestly, why even treat them? Maybe they'd think twice in future if the knew they'd get no treatment.

That would be too harsh IMO, but people have to realise that they cant just behave how they want and expect the state to mop up after them

You are right, if only because making such a determination quickly would be impossible, but I don't have much sympathy for people who are in A&E, or needing the attention of paramedics, due to getting hammered and then injured.

I'd be impressed if any party was really serious about tackling our drinking culture.

The only time I have ever used A&E was on the Sunday night of the 2004 V Festival..

Two days of drinking and I was pushed over by a bouncer and landed head first on the corner of the metal on a Land Rover light

27 stitches in my head, 3 in my knee.. only partly my fault but wouldn't have happened if I hadn't been drunk

Speedy

Scott_P said:

@ZoraSuleman: They could just promise to save the NHS but - Tories bring in Ann Summers boss to sort their election campaign http://t.co/EWJe3eUD7D

Let the jokes begin.
I can imagine a few jokes already like the new Tory poster will be "Oh, Mr. Cameron has been a very naughty boy" or if it's a negative ad "Would you go out with someone looking like Ed?".

murali_s

Ave_it said:

Ave It latest GE projection:

CON 297
LAB 278
LD 35
SNP 15
PC 5
GRN 1
UKIP 1
NI 18

If Ave_It is not predicting a 100 Majority for the Tories, you know the Tories are in deep, deep trouble...

Casino_Royale

SeanT said:

Overly personal anecdote alert.

As I believe I have mentioned, my new (ish) GF is a CPSO (sort of policewoman), from a seriously poor White Working Class south east London background. We're talking council estates, gang murders, rape epidemics, drug dealers in the stairwell.

She's great fun, if sometimes abrasive, and very smart, and given her backstory and her job she probably knows more about lived British life than most people on this site (certainly me) and almost anyone in Westminster. I wish I could sit her in front of every PPC in 2015, so she could speak her mind.

ANYWAY, the relevance of this is that she is - in despair, and very shyly - voting UKIP. Her family migrated to UKIP years ago, from Labour or did-not-vote, but hitherto she has been resolutely Lib Dem. But now she perceives no party that will look after her or her own, or deal with the problems that she sees every day, and remembers from her past.

It's stories like hers that persuade me that 1. UKIP is here to stay (unless the Tories find a way to take back Thatcher's children) and 2. UKIP could do even better than the polls show.

Bettors beware, cav empt, etc.

Thanks for sharing. But, of course, rather than being listened to, understood and respectfully responded to by the established political parties she will be patronised, denigrated and insulted instead.

It's sad. It's very sad.

bigjohnowls

I see Tory PBers favorite Trust is achieving only 89.4% seen in 4 hours

Casino_Royale

Ave_it said:

Speedy said:

Ave_it said:

Ave It latest GE projection:

CON 297
LAB 278
LD 35
SNP 15
PC 5
GRN 1
UKIP 1
NI 18

So no Tory majority nailed on?

Not at the moment! But as you know projections can change!

You've changed.

foxinsoxuk

Chris_A said:

foxinsoxuk said:

I take it you are in my line of work?

Yes. My Trust has been at level 3 practically since Christmas and many departmental members volunteered for hours extra work at the weekend to get patients discharged or else we'd have declared a major incident by now. But hey, the like of The Watcher think we're all in it just to line our own pockets. If it's anyone lining their pockets it'll the likes of former health ministers with their links to firms currently carving up the NHS.

Mine has been on and off level 3 quite a few times over the last month. I share your concerns re Health Ministers links to firms pushing privatisation as the magic solution, but this was much the same under New Labour. Remember Patricia Hewitt and Alan Milburn?

The consensus between the parties on the NHS is much closer than either side would have you believe. The BCT fund is pretty much what Labour was proposing in 2010, and Andy Burnham pledged to work with the new CCG structures.

On the whole I prefer Norman Lambs cool rational approach to the feverish barrages from both Tories and Labour. I would like to see him stay on as Health Minister.

TwistedFireStopper

isam said:

NickPalmer said:

glw said:

isam said:

Charge people who are twice the drink drive limit to use A&E

Honestly, why even treat them? Maybe they'd think twice in future if the knew they'd get no treatment.

10 years or so ago I proposed that there should be a separate, low-priority, waiting room for A&E patients who were drunk. Firstly, it would mean that the sober but ill people could get faster treatment and secondly it would avoid cluttering up the joint waiting room with people throwing up, shouting and so on. constituents generally thought this a very good idea, but it was unanimously opposed by everyone who responded who actually worked in A&E. They said that the fact that someone is drunk doesn't mean they're not also ill, and I'd simply be introducing another layer of triage as they struggled to do a prior "Is he just drunk or..." assessment.

I wasn't totally convinced - this seemd to be a staff-oriented argument ("put everyone in one room, simpler for us") rather than a patient-oriented one. But I could see we couldn't really force the system onto reluctant staff.

"...they struggled to do a prior "Is he just drunk or..." assessment.

What??!?!

Breathalyser??

If you're absolutely hammered, then you are ill, and as much as it pains me to say it, you can't just shove 'em into a room and leave them to sober up. For A&E staff, it's probably much easier to have them in the general population where you can keep an eye on them, and patch them up where necessary. Maybe the breweries, pub chains and supermarkets could fund portacabins, where drunks could be assessed and treated, freeing up A&E for more deserving cases. I dunno, it's a tough one.
We've had a few days recently, where there have been no ambulances available to attend RTCs, which is quite scary, especially when we're on minimum crewing too.
It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better, beyond doubt.

perdix

SeanT said:

Overly personal anecdote alert.

As I believe I have mentioned, my new (ish) GF is a CPSO (sort of policewoman), from a seriously poor White Working Class south east London background. We're talking council estates, gang murders, rape epidemics, drug dealers in the stairwell.

She's great fun, if sometimes abrasive, and very smart, and given her backstory and her job she probably knows more about lived British life than most people on this site (certainly me) and almost anyone in Westminster. I wish I could sit her in front of every PPC in 2015, so she could speak her mind.

ANYWAY, the relevance of this is that she is - in despair, and very shyly - voting UKIP. Her family migrated to UKIP years ago, from Labour or did-not-vote, but hitherto she has been resolutely Lib Dem. But now she perceives no party that will look after her or her own, or deal with the problems that she sees every day, and remembers from her past.

It's stories like hers that persuade me that 1. UKIP is here to stay (unless the Tories find a way to take back Thatcher's children) and 2. UKIP could do even better than the polls show.

Bettors beware, cav empt, etc.

Kippers will woo her with every opportunistic gimmick they can think of, none of which will be properly thought through.

john_zims

@compouter2

'What happened to the South East mansion riots. Not heard a thing from it today.'

No need when the job is being done by Labour's London mayoral candidates.

'It’s depressing to hear Labour candidates (today Abbott, Lammy and Jowell in the Standard and then Abbott again on Radio 4) for Mayor of London wading into the “debate” and playing the Tory tune about the Mansion Tax being a “tax on London”

Speedy

SeanT said:

Overly personal anecdote alert.

As I believe I have mentioned, my new (ish) GF is a CPSO (sort of policewoman), from a seriously poor White Working Class south east London background. We're talking council estates, gang murders, rape epidemics, drug dealers in the stairwell.

She's great fun, if sometimes abrasive, and very smart, and given her backstory and her job she probably knows more about lived British life than most people on this site (certainly me) and almost anyone in Westminster. I wish I could sit her in front of every PPC in 2015, so she could speak her mind.

ANYWAY, the relevance of this is that she is - in despair, and very shyly - voting UKIP. Her family migrated to UKIP years ago, from Labour or did-not-vote, but hitherto she has been resolutely Lib Dem. But now she perceives no party that will look after her or her own, or deal with the problems that she sees every day, and remembers from her past.

It's stories like hers that persuade me that 1. UKIP is here to stay (unless the Tories find a way to take back Thatcher's children) and 2. UKIP could do even better than the polls show.

Bettors beware, cav empt, etc.

I'm not surprised, people who's daily lives mingle with society's problems tend to respond that way.
Voting patters are mostly explained by a few factors like age, education, background, wealth, social environment, and family tradition.
With her story as described above she would either have veered far to the left or far to the right , but her job has probably made the difference towards UKIP.

nigel4england

bigjohnowls said:

foxinsoxuk said:

bigjohnowls said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Can someone tell me the no. of A&E's with a major incident VS the number that aren't?

Context, context.

Thank you.

I believe there are 146 with Emergency Departments, with 6 having declared a major incident. Many of the remaining 140 are on stage 3 alert (stage 4 being Major Incident).

This is often the worst week of the year, but not always a good bounceback.

10 organisations listed below affecting 13 hospitals have called stage 4 in last 2 days as far as i know


Gloucestershire Royal Hospital
Cheltenham General Hospital
Scarborough Hospital
Croydon University Hospital
Royal Stoke in Staffordshire
Norfolk and Norwich Hospital
Peterborough City Hospital
St Peter's Hospital, Surrey
Ashford Hospital, Surrey
Bolton NHS Foundation Trust

This is also completely unprecedented as far as i am aware.

Are you aware of this ever happening to this extent before foxinsoxuk?

I think you have missed United Lincolnshire Hospitals (Lincoln, Boston, Grantham) as well as Scarborough.

But to be honest, I have seen plenty of similar crises in the NHS over the years. I believe that the crisis started in 1948. The nature of the crisis fluctuates over time, but it never really goes away.

When I qualified in 1988 I would often start the Medical take with no medical beds, and a large part of the Housemans job was bed management and co-ordinating services.

Actually (and none of the parties will admit it in Election season) there is real cross party consensus about the NHS. Call it LibLabConKipSnp if you like!

They agree on the causes of the crisis (and it is a multifactoral perfect storm) and even on most of the solutions (the Better Care Together fund devised by Lamb and Hunt is in reality siphoning off NHS funds to maintain council services).

The things that are not mentioned are "rationing" and "co-payment" both of which are viable ways to manage demand.

I can honestly say I have never heard of this number of Acute hospitals calling a major incident.

The Better Care Fund has robbed £3.8bn from NHS and I have had a council chief executive brag that they call it the pot hole fund because they can spend it on that if they want.

GE2015 BCF will explode the Govt claim of real terms increases out of the water (another prediction)

How much has PFI robbed from the NHS?

Ave_it

Casino_Royale said:

Ave_it said:

Speedy said:

Ave_it said:

Ave It latest GE projection:

CON 297
LAB 278
LD 35
SNP 15
PC 5
GRN 1
UKIP 1
NI 18

So no Tory majority nailed on?

Not at the moment! But as you know projections can change!

You've changed.

Hello Casino. Ave It is using the latest ultra sophisticated polling technology which is not currently forecasting a CON majority. But it does see through the SNP illusion.

It also projects Nick Palmer to win!!!

Speedy

perdix said:

SeanT said:

Overly personal anecdote alert.

As I believe I have mentioned, my new (ish) GF is a CPSO (sort of policewoman), from a seriously poor White Working Class south east London background. We're talking council estates, gang murders, rape epidemics, drug dealers in the stairwell.

She's great fun, if sometimes abrasive, and very smart, and given her backstory and her job she probably knows more about lived British life than most people on this site (certainly me) and almost anyone in Westminster. I wish I could sit her in front of every PPC in 2015, so she could speak her mind.

ANYWAY, the relevance of this is that she is - in despair, and very shyly - voting UKIP. Her family migrated to UKIP years ago, from Labour or did-not-vote, but hitherto she has been resolutely Lib Dem. But now she perceives no party that will look after her or her own, or deal with the problems that she sees every day, and remembers from her past.

It's stories like hers that persuade me that 1. UKIP is here to stay (unless the Tories find a way to take back Thatcher's children) and 2. UKIP could do even better than the polls show.

Bettors beware, cav empt, etc.

Kippers will woo her with every opportunistic gimmick they can think of, none of which will be properly thought through.

They don't need to do gimmicks with voters like those, they naturally gravitate towards them if they feel that they will represent their anxieties.

kjohnw

if the NHS is the main issue now in the media then labour have peaked too soon as the economy will become the main focus in the next 4 months. if we have Grexit or eurogeddon II then this will focus voters minds too on the economy. If the battle becomes the economy then the tories will be most seats

bigjohnowls

nigel4england said:

bigjohnowls said:

foxinsoxuk said:

bigjohnowls said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Can someone tell me the no. of A&E's with a major incident VS the number that aren't?

Context, context.

Thank you.

I believe there are 146 with Emergency Departments, with 6 having declared a major incident. Many of the remaining 140 are on stage 3 alert (stage 4 being Major Incident).

This is often the worst week of the year, but not always a good bounceback.

10 organisations listed below affecting 13 hospitals have called stage 4 in last 2 days as far as i know


Gloucestershire Royal Hospital
Cheltenham General Hospital
Scarborough Hospital
Croydon University Hospital
Royal Stoke in Staffordshire
Norfolk and Norwich Hospital
Peterborough City Hospital
St Peter's Hospital, Surrey
Ashford Hospital, Surrey
Bolton NHS Foundation Trust

This is also completely unprecedented as far as i am aware.

Are you aware of this ever happening to this extent before foxinsoxuk?

I think you have missed United Lincolnshire Hospitals (Lincoln, Boston, Grantham) as well as Scarborough.

But to be honest, I have seen plenty of similar crises in the NHS over the years. I believe that the crisis started in 1948. The nature of the crisis fluctuates over time, but it never really goes away.

When I qualified in 1988 I would often start the Medical take with no medical beds, and a large part of the Housemans job was bed management and co-ordinating services.

Actually (and none of the parties will admit it in Election season) there is real cross party consensus about the NHS. Call it LibLabConKipSnp if you like!

They agree on the causes of the crisis (and it is a multifactoral perfect storm) and even on most of the solutions (the Better Care Together fund devised by Lamb and Hunt is in reality siphoning off NHS funds to maintain council services).

The things that are not mentioned are "rationing" and "co-payment" both of which are viable ways to manage demand.

I can honestly say I have never heard of this number of Acute hospitals calling a major incident.

The Better Care Fund has robbed £3.8bn from NHS and I have had a council chief executive brag that they call it the pot hole fund because they can spend it on that if they want.

GE2015 BCF will explode the Govt claim of real terms increases out of the water (another prediction)

How much has PFI robbed from the NHS?

Billions you have never seen me defend PFI.

Alan Milburn et al hang your heads in shame

Speedy

Ave_it said:

Casino_Royale said:

Ave_it said:

Speedy said:

Ave_it said:

Ave It latest GE projection:

CON 297
LAB 278
LD 35
SNP 15
PC 5
GRN 1
UKIP 1
NI 18

So no Tory majority nailed on?

Not at the moment! But as you know projections can change!

You've changed.

Hello Casino. Ave It is using the latest ultra sophisticated polling technology which is not currently forecasting a CON majority. But it does see through the SNP illusion.

It also projects Nick Palmer to win!!!

Is it one of those election models using the average movements of all elections since WW2?
I can't think of other that would have shown a CON majority in the past but not one now.

glw

TwistedFireStopper said:

Maybe the breweries, pub chains and supermarkets could fund portacabins, where drunks could be assessed and treated, freeing up A&E for more deserving cases. I dunno, it's a tough one.

I honestly think in the long run we'll treat alcohol like tobacco, and future generations will wonder what the hell we were thinking.

nigel4england

bigjohnowls said:

nigel4england said:

bigjohnowls said:

foxinsoxuk said:

bigjohnowls said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Can someone tell me the no. of A&E's with a major incident VS the number that aren't?

Context, context.

Thank you.

I believe there are 146 with Emergency Departments, with 6 having declared a major incident. Many of the remaining 140 are on stage 3 alert (stage 4 being Major Incident).

This is often the worst week of the year, but not always a good bounceback.

10 organisations listed below affecting 13 hospitals have called stage 4 in last 2 days as far as i know


Gloucestershire Royal Hospital
Cheltenham General Hospital
Scarborough Hospital
Croydon University Hospital
Royal Stoke in Staffordshire
Norfolk and Norwich Hospital
Peterborough City Hospital
St Peter's Hospital, Surrey
Ashford Hospital, Surrey
Bolton NHS Foundation Trust

This is also completely unprecedented as far as i am aware.

Are you aware of this ever happening to this extent before foxinsoxuk?

I think you have missed United Lincolnshire Hospitals (Lincoln, Boston, Grantham) as well as Scarborough.

But to be honest, I have seen plenty of similar crises in the NHS over the years. I believe that the crisis started in 1948. The nature of the crisis fluctuates over time, but it never really goes away.

When I qualified in 1988 I would often start the Medical take with no medical beds, and a large part of the Housemans job was bed management and co-ordinating services.

Actually (and none of the parties will admit it in Election season) there is real cross party consensus about the NHS. Call it LibLabConKipSnp if you like!

They agree on the causes of the crisis (and it is a multifactoral perfect storm) and even on most of the solutions (the Better Care Together fund devised by Lamb and Hunt is in reality siphoning off NHS funds to maintain council services).

The things that are not mentioned are "rationing" and "co-payment" both of which are viable ways to manage demand.

I can honestly say I have never heard of this number of Acute hospitals calling a major incident.

The Better Care Fund has robbed £3.8bn from NHS and I have had a council chief executive brag that they call it the pot hole fund because they can spend it on that if they want.

GE2015 BCF will explode the Govt claim of real terms increases out of the water (another prediction)

How much has PFI robbed from the NHS?

Billions you have never seen me defend PFI.

Alan Milburn et al hang your heads in shame

And not just for the reasons you mention....

Smarmeron

@glw
We could bring in prohibition? That sounds like winner.

bigjohnowls

http://t.co/RoPB17ehEA

Scott_P

@Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories and Labour tied, Lib Dems still in fifth: CON 33%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 13%, GRN 8%

TheScreamingEagles

Mansion tax wot dun it

@Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories and Labour tied, Lib Dems still in fifth: CON 33%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 13%, GRN 8%

TGOHF

So what are the rules of the NHS religion - can you publish a cartoon of a hospital ?

compouter2

john_zims said:

@compouter2

'What happened to the South East mansion riots. Not heard a thing from it today.'

No need when the job is being done by Labour's London mayoral candidates.

'It’s depressing to hear Labour candidates (today Abbott, Lammy and Jowell in the Standard and then Abbott again on Radio 4) for Mayor of London wading into the “debate” and playing the Tory tune about the Mansion Tax being a “tax on London”

Strange, all I have heard all day is how the NHS is in crisis. Maybe, the new Tory campaign person can just wave a few dildos around and hope the country ignore the NHS?

Cyclefree

Chris A: Thanks for your response on the previous thread.

isam

TwistedFireStopper said:

isam said:

NickPalmer said:

glw said:

isam said:

Charge people who are twice the drink drive limit to use A&E

Honestly, why even treat them? Maybe they'd think twice in future if the knew they'd get no treatment.

10 years or so ago I proposed that there should be a separate, low-priority, waiting room for A&E patients who were drunk. Firstly, it would mean that the sober but ill people could get faster treatment and secondly it would avoid cluttering up the joint waiting room with people throwing up, shouting and so on. constituents generally thought this a very good idea, but it was unanimously opposed by everyone who responded who actually worked in A&E. They said that the fact that someone is drunk doesn't mean they're not also ill, and I'd simply be introducing another layer of triage as they struggled to do a prior "Is he just drunk or..." assessment.

I wasn't totally convinced - this seemd to be a staff-oriented argument ("put everyone in one room, simpler for us") rather than a patient-oriented one. But I could see we couldn't really force the system onto reluctant staff.

"...they struggled to do a prior "Is he just drunk or..." assessment.

What??!?!

Breathalyser??

If you're absolutely hammered, then you are ill, and as much as it pains me to say it, you can't just shove 'em into a room and leave them to sober up. For A&E staff, it's probably much easier to have them in the general population where you can keep an eye on them, and patch them up where necessary. Maybe the breweries, pub chains and supermarkets could fund portacabins, where drunks could be assessed and treated, freeing up A&E for more deserving cases. I dunno, it's a tough one.
We've had a few days recently, where there have been no ambulances available to attend RTCs, which is quite scary, especially when we're on minimum crewing too.
It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better, beyond doubt.

My plan would be to treat them as normal but charge them if they're drunk (2x dd limit)

kjohnw

TheScreamingEagles said:

Mansion tax wot dun it

@Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Tories and Labour tied, Lib Dems still in fifth: CON 33%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 13%, GRN 8%

and EdM being on telly !!!

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/552593548265398273

isam

BBC News (UK) (@BBCNews)
06/01/2015 22:22
Wednesday's Daily Mail: "A&E crisis worst for ten years" pic.twitter.com/5F3ZmmcZ8k #BBCPapers #tomorrowspaperstoday via @suttonnick

compouter2

Daily Express/Daily Mail/The Sun - Cracking front pages for Team Dildo!