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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » An interesting and very sharp political divide: Whether voters think using the word “chinky” is offensive or not

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Toms

I suspect that most orientals would find it disagreeable. I also do.
It's a distasteful subject, but I wonder what would be the outcome of a pb poll.

On a pleasanter note---merry Christmas.

MyBurningEars

@Toms

A lot of British-born Chinese people ABSOLUTELY DETEST being called "oriental". (American-Chinese people moan about this a lot too and consider it very racist... one of our US correspondents on PB actually discussed this in some length with respect to Seattle).

I generally think it's best to let people who are being described by a word, decide whether they think it's offensive or not. Which is why I wouldn't use either term. But there's also a question of whether a word is used with intent to insult - you clearly weren't, but then a lot of people in this poll seem to think no harm is meant when they use a word which we both find derogatory.

MyBurningEars

On which note, have we heard from SeaShantyIrish (think that's who it was) for a while? His contributions were really good to read. Seem to recall he wrote the odd guest thread too.

Blueberry

Who gives a toss what Lib Dems think? They only make up 5% of the electorate yet they're presented in the bar chart as important as the other parties. You need to re-scale the graph.

Toms

MyBurningEars said:

@Toms

A lot of British-born Chinese people ABSOLUTELY DETEST being called "oriental". (American-Chinese people moan about this a lot too and consider it very racist... one of our US correspondents on PB actually discussed this in some length with respect to Seattle).

I generally think it's best to let people who are being described by a word, decide whether they think it's offensive or not. Which is why I wouldn't use either term. But there's also a question of whether a word is useful with intent to insult - you clearly weren't, but then a lot of people in this poll seem to think no harm is meant when they use a word which we both find derogatory.

Point taken. I was trying to be more general that just limiting it to the Chinese. I have no Chinese friends or colleagues I can ask. Anyway what do the Chinese generally feel I wonder. Anyway I can say no more.

MikeSmithson

Blueberry said:

Who gives a toss what Lib Dems think? They only make up 5% of the electorate yet they're presented in the bar chart as important as the other parties. You need to re-scale the graph.

They are set to win many more seats at GE15 than UKIP and in latest round of Ashcroft marginals polling they had lead of 9% over CON in seats they were defending.

You need to follow things more closely my friend

RodCrosby

Toms said:

I suspect that most orientals would find it disagreeable. I also do.
It's a distasteful subject, but I wonder what would be the outcome of a pb poll.

On a pleasanter note---merry Christmas.

Some Asians find "Orientals" deeply offensive, btw...

My view is people who take offence at mere nicknames and some old-fashioned terminology have an inferiority complex.

Such people are therefore inferior to those who don't.

I'm glad I'm not one of them.

But then, I was born an Englishman...

Seasons Greetings!

rcs1000

Blueberry said:

Who gives a toss what Lib Dems think? They only make up 5% of the electorate yet they're presented in the bar chart as important as the other parties. You need to re-scale the graph.

Yawn.

isam

I think if people are using the word to describe a take away it would be over reacting to think anything much of it, but it wouldn't be friendly to refer to a person as a chinky as it sounds a bit dismissive

There shouldn't really be a difference between Aussie, Saffer, chinky or paki really but I suppose the racial differences and history make the last two less palatable

AlastairMeeks

My brother-in-law is Chinese. One day a few years ago, my sister went to pick my nephew up from after-school when he was 6 to find that he was in disgrace along with two 11 year olds.

It turned out that these two older boys had decided to call him Chinny. He decided that he didn't like this, so he said: "don't call me Chinny". So they did what most 11 year olds would do in the circumstances, and said: "Chinny, Chinny, Chinny".

My nephew was a small boy for 6, and these were two normal-sized 11 year olds, but he was unfazed by this. He walked up to them, grabbed them by the balls and squeezed. Hard. Very hard.

Chinky is obviously offensive and racist, and I would not use the word, not just because I would fear the consequences from my nephew.

MikeSmithson

MyBurningEars said:

On which note, have we heard from SeaShantyIrish (think that's who it was) for a while? His contributions were really good to read. Seem to recall he wrote the odd guest thread too.

I'm hoping that he'll be back on the site towards the end of next year as we approach Iowa

TheScreamingEagles

Looking at this polling, people find the word "poofter" more offensive than chinky.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/tom73ueyir/Sun_Results_141222_Offensive_Words_Website.pdf

MyBurningEars

Toms said:

MyBurningEars said:

@Toms

A lot of British-born Chinese people ABSOLUTELY DETEST being called "oriental". (American-Chinese people moan about this a lot too and consider it very racist... one of our US correspondents on PB actually discussed this in some length with respect to Seattle).

I generally think it's best to let people who are being described by a word, decide whether they think it's offensive or not. Which is why I wouldn't use either term. But there's also a question of whether a word is useful with intent to insult - you clearly weren't, but then a lot of people in this poll seem to think no harm is meant when they use a word which we both find derogatory.

Point taken. I was trying to be more general that just limiting it to the Chinese. I have no Chinese friends or colleagues I can ask. Anyway what do the Chinese generally feel I wonder. Anyway I can say no more.

Best thing to do is say "East Asian" I think, at least in England where "Asian" is usually understood as "Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Sri Lankan". But in the USA, "Asian" is used exclusively (as far as I understand it) to mean what "East Asian" does here. People of Indian descent call themselves "Indian" rather than "Asian", and I've known people of Pakistani descent prefer to avoid the "Indian" tag by calling themselves Middle Eastern!!

MyBurningEars

MikeSmithson said:

MyBurningEars said:

On which note, have we heard from SeaShantyIrish (think that's who it was) for a while? His contributions were really good to read. Seem to recall he wrote the odd guest thread too.

I'm hoping that he'll be back on the site towards the end of next year as we approach Iowa

That would be great. Thanks Mike.

HYUFD

OGH Albeit the last batch of Ashcroft polling was in safer LD seats, in tighter marginals more seats were being lost

Speedy Another Dave (previous thread) Hopefully the tables will eventually be released, on economics most people tend to want higher taxes for the rich, lower taxes for themselves, on social issues they are pro gay marriage but want immigration controlled

TCPoliticalBetting

What I find really offensive is the abuse undertaken on children in this country.

That has done far more lasting harm than words such as "chinky" or even "blondie" or "wasp". After all one BBC head once said that it was disgustingly white.....

isam

Looking at the results id say the main reason is people of a lefty disposition are more zero tolerance and don't really allow for context... Except when it's Paul Elliott and he is back in his job 18 months after calling Richard Rufus a nigger

Big Rons still waiting for the phone to ring

Lots of progressive media types like to use the 'I am confused, I just don't get what you mean?' Tactic in debate when faced with an opinion they don't share, as if other opinions are literal nonsense that bewilder them

TCPoliticalBetting

Blueberry said:

Who gives a toss what Lib Dems think? They only make up 5% of the electorate yet they're presented in the bar chart as important as the other parties. You need to re-scale the graph.

There is a point after the GE which will define whether the LDs are to be treated as a major party or not. Certainly if they have 30+ MPs that will still apply but if that number drops much lower then in an age with several minor parties, do the LDs have to be 25+ or 20+ to keep that status?

What is certainly true is that if the LD vote drops to below 6% or 7% then there will hardly be much point in separating out the views of LD2015's, as the votes will be too few to matter.

TCPoliticalBetting

From the New Year we will shortly have just 3 months before 30 March 2015 and the 55th Parliament is dissolved. 13 weeks, time is running out for all parties. Will it be the polls at the start of Jan or later in Jan that give us the best guide to the GE?

TCPoliticalBetting

isam said:

Looking at the results id say the main reason is people of a lefty disposition are more zero tolerance and don't really allow for context... Except when it's Paul Elliott and he is back in his job 18 months after calling Richard Rufus a nigger

I suggest it is not the leftie vs righties as UKIP has a wedge of NHS supporting, welfare supporting types ex of the Labour party..... More probably a split between patriots and internationalists.....

Sunil_Prasannan

TCPoliticalBetting said:

What I find really offensive is the abuse undertaken on children in this country.

That has done far more lasting harm than words such as "chinky" or even "blondie" or "wasp". After all one BBC head once said that it was disgustingly white.....

"Hideously white"!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12841/Dyke-BBC-hideously-white.html

Blueberry

MikeSmithson said:

Blueberry said:

Who gives a toss what Lib Dems think? They only make up 5% of the electorate yet they're presented in the bar chart as important as the other parties. You need to re-scale the graph.

They are set to win many more seats at GE15 than UKIP and in latest round of Ashcroft marginals polling they had lead of 9% over CON in seats they were defending.

You need to follow things more closely my friend

I guess the graph shows that if you were prosecuted for referring to someone as a Chinky in a private phone call recorded in the UK you should get off because 51% of the public think there's reasonable doubt Chinky is offensive? But, that if you live a Lib Dem marginal the magistrate could point to polling and find you guilty? So newsworthy.

When's the child rape party political polling out?

Sunil_Prasannan

Greetings, white people

(and TSE!)

dr_spyn

"Are You Right There, Father Ted?".

TCPoliticalBetting

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Greetings, white people

(and TSE!)

Are we just the disgustingly white wasps or some other mongrel breed?

TCPoliticalBetting

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

What I find really offensive is the abuse undertaken on children in this country.

That has done far more lasting harm than words such as "chinky" or even "blondie" or "wasp". After all one BBC head once said that it was disgustingly white.....

"Hideously white"!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12841/Dyke-BBC-hideously-white.html

Sorry I forgot the abuse cast on my skin tone.

NIN22

I have never considered the phrase 'going for a chinky' as an insult, more a common term of endearment/slang, but I wouldn't refer to a >person< as a 'chinky' and would consider it a racial slur.

isam

TCPoliticalBetting said:

isam said:

Looking at the results id say the main reason is people of a lefty disposition are more zero tolerance and don't really allow for context... Except when it's Paul Elliott and he is back in his job 18 months after calling Richard Rufus a nigger

I suggest it is not the leftie vs righties as UKIP has a wedge of NHS supporting, welfare supporting types ex of the Labour party..... More probably a split between patriots and internationalists.....

Maybe.. I am a kipper but wouldn't say I'm a patriot in a British is best way.

I Think the big gap between what is known as the liberal prog establishment and kippers is that the former just won't tolerate any view that differs from their own and calls people who aren't like them names with the intention to offend

rcs1000

Nin22 is absolutely right. Calling someone a "chinky" is offensive, going for a chinky is not.

The question in the poll, without context, is pointless.

Floater

rcs1000 said:

Nin22 is absolutely right. Calling someone a "chinky" is offensive, going for a chinky is not.

The question in the poll, without context, is pointless.

Agreed.

BTW has this been posted?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11294984/Labours-crucial-ethnic-minority-vote-set-to-collapse.html

kle4

A very...interesting thread header as a pre-Christmas treat.

I'd probably say using it is offensive in any context, but would not be able to deny nevertheless saying it in the context of ordering Chinese food, as others have used.

Regardless, a Merry Xmas, Holidays or Thursday to all.

Charles

isam said:

Looking at the results id say the main reason is people of a lefty disposition are more zero tolerance and don't really allow for context... Except when it's Paul Elliott and he is back in his job 18 months after calling Richard Rufus a nigger

Big Rons still waiting for the phone to ring

Lots of progressive media types like to use the 'I am confused, I just don't get what you mean?' Tactic in debate when faced with an opinion they don't share, as if other opinions are literal nonsense that bewilder them

Fundamentally free speech should be self-limited by courtesy. This is called being part of a community.

If someone finds being called a "chinky" or a "paki" offensive then you shouldn't use the term either in front of them or about them. I would assume that most Chinese or Pakistanis find the terms offensive and so you shouldn't use them. I suppose referring to an inanimate object (such as food) using such a term in private would be ok but it does seem like an odd hangover from previous times when a low-level racism was more prevalent.

peter_from_putney

MyBurningEars said:

MikeSmithson said:

MyBurningEars said:

On which note, have we heard from SeaShantyIrish (think that's who it was) for a while? His contributions were really good to read. Seem to recall he wrote the odd guest thread too.

I'm hoping that he'll be back on the site towards the end of next year as we approach Iowa

That would be great. Thanks Mike.

Yes, but let's hope we will have some balance in future as regards the U.S. political scene.

No_Offence_Alan

Interesting that UKIP's coffin-dodgers are least likely to think it offensive.

Tim_B

Want to know where Santa's sleigh is right now?

http://www.noradsanta.org/

GeoffM

This is shaping up to be a real holier-than-thou thread. There are very few words that are actually properly rude and Chinky in any context certainly isn't one of them. Neither is poofter. FFS, grow a pair you lot.

Too many people these days make a living out of being fully paid up hand-wringing offencewhores who can spot a potential lawsuit (plus their inevitable payout for 'hurt feelings') at thousand yards. In the dark. And the Filth love a bit of casual sweariness for the easy target hitting statistics.

I despair; I really do.

Charles

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

What I find really offensive is the abuse undertaken on children in this country.

That has done far more lasting harm than words such as "chinky" or even "blondie" or "wasp". After all one BBC head once said that it was disgustingly white.....

"Hideously white"!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12841/Dyke-BBC-hideously-white.html

Sorry I forgot the abuse cast on my skin tone.

Although, grammatically, "hideous" relates to the "BBC" not to "white"

isam

Charles said:

isam said:

Looking at the results id say the main reason is people of a lefty disposition are more zero tolerance and don't really allow for context... Except when it's Paul Elliott and he is back in his job 18 months after calling Richard Rufus a nigger

Big Rons still waiting for the phone to ring

Lots of progressive media types like to use the 'I am confused, I just don't get what you mean?' Tactic in debate when faced with an opinion they don't share, as if other opinions are literal nonsense that bewilder them

Fundamentally free speech should be self-limited by courtesy. This is called being part of a community.

If someone finds being called a "chinky" or a "paki" offensive then you shouldn't use the term either in front of them or about them. I would assume that most Chinese or Pakistanis find the terms offensive and so you shouldn't use them. I suppose referring to an inanimate object (such as food) using such a term in private would be ok but it does seem like an odd hangover from previous times when a low-level racism was more prevalent.

Basically a round the houses way of saying what I said earlier

Old fashioned I know, but my nan would have said people bothered by things like this haven't got enough to worry about

Charles

peter_from_putney said:

MyBurningEars said:

MikeSmithson said:

MyBurningEars said:

On which note, have we heard from SeaShantyIrish (think that's who it was) for a while? His contributions were really good to read. Seem to recall he wrote the odd guest thread too.

I'm hoping that he'll be back on the site towards the end of next year as we approach Iowa

That would be great. Thanks Mike.

Yes, but let's hope we will have some balance in future as regards the U.S. political scene.

I will be posting my mother-in-laws favorites again... last time she supported pretty much each one of the GOP crazies in the right order...

Charles

isam said:

Charles said:

isam said:

Looking at the results id say the main reason is people of a lefty disposition are more zero tolerance and don't really allow for context... Except when it's Paul Elliott and he is back in his job 18 months after calling Richard Rufus a nigger

Big Rons still waiting for the phone to ring

Lots of progressive media types like to use the 'I am confused, I just don't get what you mean?' Tactic in debate when faced with an opinion they don't share, as if other opinions are literal nonsense that bewilder them

Fundamentally free speech should be self-limited by courtesy. This is called being part of a community.

If someone finds being called a "chinky" or a "paki" offensive then you shouldn't use the term either in front of them or about them. I would assume that most Chinese or Pakistanis find the terms offensive and so you shouldn't use them. I suppose referring to an inanimate object (such as food) using such a term in private would be ok but it does seem like an odd hangover from previous times when a low-level racism was more prevalent.

Basically a round the houses way of saying what I said earlier

Old fashioned I know, but my nan would have said people bothered by things like this haven't got enough to worry about

And a Happy Christmas to you too!

The issue is that describing someone by a category term - whether it be a racial epithet or something as simple as "f*cking Tories"- dehumanizes them. And one someone is nothing more than a member of a group than an individual it legitimises stigimatisation

RodCrosby

rcs1000 said:

Nin22 is absolutely right. Calling someone a "chinky" is offensive, going for a chinky is not.

The question in the poll, without context, is pointless.

You can call me a Brit, an Englander, a Rosbif, a Sassenach, a Pom, a Limey, a Rooinek, a Soutpiel, an Angritt, an Ingraj, a Sayyip, or even - slightly-inaccurately, denominationally, if not entomologically - a WASP...

You can also call me a Scouser, a Dickysam, or Leftfooter to no ill-effect...

The difference between me and those inferior people from less-happy lands is - I am content with who I am, and my race's achievements, and I don't feel the need to endlessly parade my spiritual inferiority, and my race's inherent childishness, by taking "offence" at such picayune and jocular sobriquets...

Barnesian

Charles said:

isam said:

Charles said:

isam said:

Looking at the results id say the main reason is people of a lefty disposition are more zero tolerance and don't really allow for context... Except when it's Paul Elliott and he is back in his job 18 months after calling Richard Rufus a nigger

Big Rons still waiting for the phone to ring

Lots of progressive media types like to use the 'I am confused, I just don't get what you mean?' Tactic in debate when faced with an opinion they don't share, as if other opinions are literal nonsense that bewilder them

Fundamentally free speech should be self-limited by courtesy. This is called being part of a community.

If someone finds being called a "chinky" or a "paki" offensive then you shouldn't use the term either in front of them or about them. I would assume that most Chinese or Pakistanis find the terms offensive and so you shouldn't use them. I suppose referring to an inanimate object (such as food) using such a term in private would be ok but it does seem like an odd hangover from previous times when a low-level racism was more prevalent.

Basically a round the houses way of saying what I said earlier

Old fashioned I know, but my nan would have said people bothered by things like this haven't got enough to worry about

And a Happy Christmas to you too!

The issue is that describing someone by a category term - whether it be a racial epithet or something as simple as "f*cking Tories"- dehumanizes them. And one someone is nothing more than a member of a group than an individual it legitimises stigimatisation

If I describe you as "English" - a category term - does it dehumanize you? As nothing more than a member of a group (of English people) does it legitimise stigimatisation? I don't think so.

I react the same way that something "objectivises" women. What?

And a Happy Christmas to you too!
Do unto others as you would be done by.

Tim_B

Calling a chinaman a chinky or a Pakistani a paki is racist? It's merely a diminutive. How is that worse than calling someone british a brit?

It may be impolite, inconsiderate or insensitive, but hardly racist.

This thread is almost entering Al Sharpton country.

isam

Charles said:

isam said:

Charles said:

isam said:

Looking at the results id say the main reason is people of a lefty disposition are more zero tolerance and don't really allow for context... Except when it's Paul Elliott and he is back in his job 18 months after calling Richard Rufus a nigger

Big Rons still waiting for the phone to ring

Lots of progressive media types like to use the 'I am confused, I just don't get what you mean?' Tactic in debate when faced with an opinion they don't share, as if other opinions are literal nonsense that bewilder them

Fundamentally free speech should be self-limited by courtesy. This is called being part of a community.

If someone finds being called a "chinky" or a "paki" offensive then you shouldn't use the term either in front of them or about them. I would assume that most Chinese or Pakistanis find the terms offensive and so you shouldn't use them. I suppose referring to an inanimate object (such as food) using such a term in private would be ok but it does seem like an odd hangover from previous times when a low-level racism was more prevalent.

Basically a round the houses way of saying what I said earlier

Old fashioned I know, but my nan would have said people bothered by things like this haven't got enough to worry about

And a Happy Christmas to you too!

The issue is that describing someone by a category term - whether it be a racial epithet or something as simple as "f*cking Tories"- dehumanizes them. And one someone is nothing more than a member of a group than an individual it legitimises stigimatisation

Yes! I'll have to repeat it, a round the houses way of saying what I said earlier

philiph

Causing offence is so easy.

Paki I always used in a friendly way, until it became offensive. It is no more than a diminutive of Pakistani. A bit like Brit. Also handy to use Paki with shop added. In the past I used it without any malice or intent to harm or offend in that sense too. Don't use it now.

So if it becomes offensive I don't use it.

While I'm happy not to offend people, I don't think anyone has the absolute right not to be offended. However gratuitously offending people is also not acceptable.

Responsibility and tolerance are what make freedom of speech work. Without those you are screwed.

RodCrosby

Tim_B said:

Calling a chinaman a chinky or a Pakistani a paki is racist? It's merely a diminutive. How is that worse than calling someone british a brit?

It may be impolite, inconsiderate or insensitive, but hardly racist.

This thread is almost entering Al Sharpton country.

Correct, ignore them, they are either mad or bad...

(It's not even impolite. Just that in English it's easier to say 2 syllables rather than 4. Paki-Pakistani. Maybe the "i" is redundant in fact, and it should be "Pak". qv. Brit-British. )

AndyJS

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me.

TCPoliticalBetting

Charles said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

What I find really offensive is the abuse undertaken on children in this country.

That has done far more lasting harm than words such as "chinky" or even "blondie" or "wasp". After all one BBC head once said that it was disgustingly white.....

"Hideously white"!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12841/Dyke-BBC-hideously-white.html

Sorry I forgot the abuse cast on my skin tone.

Although, grammatically, "hideous" relates to the "BBC" not to "white"

But the BBC only becomes hideous because of white folk.....

RodCrosby

AndyJS said:

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me.

Tell it to the Judges in this once-free country...

MikeK

I noticed that neither Mike nor TSE signed off on this quirky thread.

If this is the best PB can do over the holidays, then perhaps it should close down for two days Xmas leave.

RodCrosby

@RodCrosby

I would expect the Chinese the Chinks, being a superior race, to feel the same...

(^_-)

Omnium

MikeSmithson said:

Blueberry said:

Who gives a toss what Lib Dems think? They only make up 5% of the electorate yet they're presented in the bar chart as important as the other parties. You need to re-scale the graph.

They are set to win many more seats at GE15 than UKIP and in latest round of Ashcroft marginals polling they had lead of 9% over CON in seats they were defending.

You need to follow things more closely my friend

Ho ho ho ho!

Now that's either my Santa impression or I'm being rude (but realistic) to Mike!

Happy Xmas to PB

Charles

Barnesian said:

Charles said:

isam said:

Charles said:

isam said:

Looking at the results id say the main reason is people of a lefty disposition are more zero tolerance and don't really allow for context... Except when it's Paul Elliott and he is back in his job 18 months after calling Richard Rufus a nigger

Big Rons still waiting for the phone to ring

Lots of progressive media types like to use the 'I am confused, I just don't get what you mean?' Tactic in debate when faced with an opinion they don't share, as if other opinions are literal nonsense that bewilder them

Fundamentally free speech should be self-limited by courtesy. This is called being part of a community.

If someone finds being called a "chinky" or a "paki" offensive then you shouldn't use the term either in front of them or about them. I would assume that most Chinese or Pakistanis find the terms offensive and so you shouldn't use them. I suppose referring to an inanimate object (such as food) using such a term in private would be ok but it does seem like an odd hangover from previous times when a low-level racism was more prevalent.

Basically a round the houses way of saying what I said earlier

Old fashioned I know, but my nan would have said people bothered by things like this haven't got enough to worry about

And a Happy Christmas to you too!

The issue is that describing someone by a category term - whether it be a racial epithet or something as simple as "f*cking Tories"- dehumanizes them. And one someone is nothing more than a member of a group than an individual it legitimises stigimatisation

If I describe you as "English" - a category term - does it dehumanize you? As nothing more than a member of a group (of English people) does it legitimise stigimatisation? I don't think so.

I react the same way that something "objectivises" women. What?

And a Happy Christmas to you too!
Do unto others as you would be done by.

English, to me, is more descriptive, as is Pakistani. "f*cking Brits" would be the equivalent term

AndyJS

"EDF Energy’s renewable arm today sold a majority stake of three UK onshore wind farms to a Chinese nuclear energy company, China General Nuclear Power Corporation (CGN)":

http://www.energylivenews.com/2014/12/15/chinese-nuclear-firm-buys-uk-wind-farms

Tim_B

MikeK said:

I noticed that neither Mike nor TSE signed off on this quirky thread.

If this is the best PB can do over the holidays, then perhaps it should close down for two days Xmas leave.

People who want to take offence work hard at doing so. I give you as a classic example Al Sharpton.

He is currently helping inflame racial tension in New York City, addressing crowds calling for the imprisonment of racist white cops who shoot black people.

Last Saturday two NYPD cops - an Asian-American and a latino -were shot to death in their car while eating lunch, by a black man. They have not yet had funerals.

Fewer than 50% of NYPD is white.

Sharpton was sued successfully for defamation in the Tawana Brawley case.

BenM

A Merry and Peaceful Christmas to all who contribute here to the Web's liveliest and best informed political debate!

Sean_F

Tim_B said:

MikeK said:

I noticed that neither Mike nor TSE signed off on this quirky thread.

If this is the best PB can do over the holidays, then perhaps it should close down for two days Xmas leave.

People who want to take offence work hard at doing so. I give you as a classic example Al Sharpton.

He is currently helping inflame racial tension in New York City, addressing crowds calling for the imprisonment of racist white cops who shoot black people.

Last Saturday two NYPD cops - an Asian-American and a latino -were shot to death in their car while eating lunch, by a black man. They have not yet had funerals.

Fewer than 50% of NYPD is white.

I think Sharpton is evil (not a word I throw around casually). He's a man who's built his career on trying to inflame relations between members of different racial groups.

On topic, the answer is, as so often, "it depends on the context". If you're trying to disparage someone, it's offensive. If you aren't, it isn't.

Tim_B

AndyJS said:

"EDF Energy’s renewable arm today sold a majority stake of three UK onshore wind farms to a Chinese nuclear energy company, China General Nuclear Power Corporation (CGN)":

http://www.energylivenews.com/2014/12/15/chinese-nuclear-firm-buys-uk-wind-farms

Does this represent a chink in the UK's renewable energy armour? :-)

AlbionTilIDie

I am proud to be called a Brit. That's because I live in Britain and I haven't offended the indigenous people by blowing them to smithereens on a tube train or a bus. If I lived in a foreign country where Brits have caused recent atrocities I would be uncomfortable of someone referred to me as a Brit. Iraq maybe. And take it as a slur.

Teenagers will insult those who offend them. They would never use the nigger or chink words round here. They would call someone a muslim or a somalian as an insult as those are the religions / races they associate with wanting to causing them harm. In 20 years time those will be the words seen as offensive, Chink will not be.

Charles

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Charles said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

What I find really offensive is the abuse undertaken on children in this country.

That has done far more lasting harm than words such as "chinky" or even "blondie" or "wasp". After all one BBC head once said that it was disgustingly white.....

"Hideously white"!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12841/Dyke-BBC-hideously-white.html

Sorry I forgot the abuse cast on my skin tone.

Although, grammatically, "hideous" relates to the "BBC" not to "white"

But the BBC only becomes hideous because of white folk.....

Because of the *proportion* of whites, not whites per se.

(Not that quotas are a good thing)

RodCrosby

Sean_F said:

Tim_B said:

MikeK said:

I noticed that neither Mike nor TSE signed off on this quirky thread.

If this is the best PB can do over the holidays, then perhaps it should close down for two days Xmas leave.

People who want to take offence work hard at doing so. I give you as a classic example Al Sharpton.

He is currently helping inflame racial tension in New York City, addressing crowds calling for the imprisonment of racist white cops who shoot black people.

Last Saturday two NYPD cops - an Asian-American and a latino -were shot to death in their car while eating lunch, by a black man. They have not yet had funerals.

Fewer than 50% of NYPD is white.

If you're trying to disparage someone, it's offensive. If you aren't, it isn't.

If the cap fits.

Tough...

Pulpstar

Tim_B said:

AndyJS said:

"EDF Energy’s renewable arm today sold a majority stake of three UK onshore wind farms to a Chinese nuclear energy company, China General Nuclear Power Corporation (CGN)":

http://www.energylivenews.com/2014/12/15/chinese-nuclear-firm-buys-uk-wind-farms

Does this represent a chink in the UK's renewable energy armour? :-)

Where did it all go wong.

state_go_away

I took one of those daft personality tests this morning and it came back that I was not easily offended and I think this is true .I then tried to think what was the last time I was offended by something somebody had said to me and I realised it was when somebody said they had been to Stonehenge and found it 'boring' (have a sense of bloody history you Philistine!!- I thought) - Its amazing what offends some people and what doesn't !!!

Charles

Sean_F said:

Tim_B said:

MikeK said:

I noticed that neither Mike nor TSE signed off on this quirky thread.

If this is the best PB can do over the holidays, then perhaps it should close down for two days Xmas leave.

People who want to take offence work hard at doing so. I give you as a classic example Al Sharpton.

He is currently helping inflame racial tension in New York City, addressing crowds calling for the imprisonment of racist white cops who shoot black people.

Last Saturday two NYPD cops - an Asian-American and a latino -were shot to death in their car while eating lunch, by a black man. They have not yet had funerals.

Fewer than 50% of NYPD is white.

I think Sharpton is evil (not a word I throw around casually). He's a man who's built his career on trying to inflame relations between members of different racial groups.

On topic, the answer is, as so often, "it depends on the context". If you're trying to disparage someone, it's offensive. If you aren't, it isn't.

It's not solely in the intention: if it is generally regarded as offensive to use it about people, then it is offensive regardless of whether you intend to offend or not

Charles

Sean_F said:

Tim_B said:

MikeK said:

I noticed that neither Mike nor TSE signed off on this quirky thread.

If this is the best PB can do over the holidays, then perhaps it should close down for two days Xmas leave.

People who want to take offence work hard at doing so. I give you as a classic example Al Sharpton.

He is currently helping inflame racial tension in New York City, addressing crowds calling for the imprisonment of racist white cops who shoot black people.

Last Saturday two NYPD cops - an Asian-American and a latino -were shot to death in their car while eating lunch, by a black man. They have not yet had funerals.

Fewer than 50% of NYPD is white.

I think Sharpton is evil (not a word I throw around casually). He's a man who's built his career on trying to inflame relations between members of different racial groups.

On topic, the answer is, as so often, "it depends on the context". If you're trying to disparage someone, it's offensive. If you aren't, it isn't.

It's not solely in the intention: if it is generally regarded as offensive to use it about people, then it is offensive regardless of whether you intend to offend or not (unless you actually know that the recipient will not be offended)

Sean_F

Charles said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Charles said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

What I find really offensive is the abuse undertaken on children in this country.

That has done far more lasting harm than words such as "chinky" or even "blondie" or "wasp". After all one BBC head once said that it was disgustingly white.....

"Hideously white"!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12841/Dyke-BBC-hideously-white.html

Sorry I forgot the abuse cast on my skin tone.

Although, grammatically, "hideous" relates to the "BBC" not to "white"

But the BBC only becomes hideous because of white folk.....

Because of the *proportion* of whites, not whites per se.

(Not that quotas are a good thing)

Hideously left-wing would surely be the more accurate description.

Tim_B

Pulpstar said:

Tim_B said:

AndyJS said:

"EDF Energy’s renewable arm today sold a majority stake of three UK onshore wind farms to a Chinese nuclear energy company, China General Nuclear Power Corporation (CGN)":

http://www.energylivenews.com/2014/12/15/chinese-nuclear-firm-buys-uk-wind-farms

Does this represent a chink in the UK's renewable energy armour? :-)

Where did it all go wong.

They wing the wong number?

Tim_B

In other important news, in the Popeyes Bahamas Bowl, Western Kentucky beats Central Michigan 49-48.

Nope, I don't either. There are 39 bowl games between now and New Years. We've had 5 so far.

state_go_away

On topic I think the people who most find these words (which on the face of it are not that offensive ie just a country with a y or I on the end of it) offensive are those from the said ethic background who most want to fit in and therefore do not want to be separated from everybody by a word (even if no insult intended). Obviously therefore as people should be encouraged to fit in and socialise then these words are not helpful to that however innocent they are said .

Conversely I am sure at a football or cricket game people actually like being called a frog or rosbifs etc because they ,in that instance, do not want to fit in as they want to be part of a different tribe.

When I lived in France years ago whilst I would not be reduced to a quivering wreck if somebody had called me a nickname emphasising my Englishness I would have found it slightly irritating as I wanted to fit in and not have difference emphasised to make it harder

Sunil_Prasannan

The most important issue of the day, surely, is whether or not I should add this week's Populus and YG to last week's ELBOW (already added Survation by virtue of its fieldwork dates).

Tim_B

Speaking of offensive -

Mr Fred Bohanon receives a call from his doctor, asking him to meet with the doctor, following his wife's blood work.

The doctor explains that there has been a labelling problem on the samples, and the practice has two different Bohanon families with blood work.

One came back positive for AIDS, and the other positive for Alzheimers.

He explains that they have held a practice meeting and there is no reason to worry. He should drive his wife some distance from their home and leave her by the roadside.

"If she finds her way home, " he says, "whatever you do, don't have sex with her."


That should offend many many groups who work hard at taking offence :-)

AndyJS

Today's elite: caring about verbal insults while doing nothing about forced marriages, FGM and grooming of underage girls.

Tim_B

state_go_away said:

On topic I think the people who most find these words (which on the face of it are not that offensive ie just a country with a y or I on the end of it) offensive are those from the said ethic background who most want to fit in and therefore do not want to be separated from everybody by a word (even if no insult intended). Obviously therefore as people should be encouraged to fit in and socialise then these words are not helpful to that however innocent they are said .

Conversely I am sure at a football or cricket game people actually like being called a frog or rosbifs etc because they ,in that instance, do not want to fit in as they want to be part of a different tribe.

When I lived in France years ago whilst I would not be reduced to a quivering wreck if somebody had called me a nickname emphasising my Englishness I would have found it slightly irritating as I wanted to fit in and not have difference emphasised to make it harder

Many years ago when I first moved to Georgia, my nickname was Bubba. I took it as a badge of honor as they meant it humorously.

Sean_F

AndyJS said:

Today's elite: caring about verbal insults while doing nothing about forced marriages, FGM and grooming of underage girls.

Exalting the trivial, while neglecting the essential.

That's pretty much the hallmark of any elite that's on the way out.

state_go_away

I think somebody below said they would be proud to be called a 'Brit' . I would find it cringeworthy . In general I hate abbreviations , I am a 'Briton' and I went to 'university' not 'uni'. Actually I do find it offensive that we are determined as a country to dumb down like this!!
To my mind. the term 'Brit' brings up images of football hooligans (not our strongpoint in international relations for many years) and the term 'uni' sounds like a place where you waste three years of your life doing nothing at all . This may be true but its nothing to be proud of.

Incidentally I don't mind being called a 'snob'!!!

perdix

AndyJS said:

Today's elite: caring about verbal insults while doing nothing about forced marriages, FGM and grooming of underage girls.

Glad to see you don't include William Hague as part of the elite.

RodCrosby

state_go_away said:

I think somebody below said they would be proud to be called a 'Brit' . I would find it cringeworthy . In general I hate abbreviations , I am a 'Briton' and I went to 'university' not 'uni'. Actually I do find it offensive that we are determined as a country to dumb down like this!!

Perhaps, but would you run to the Police over it?
Or to the OED or [if you felt strongly enough] the Notes & Queries section of the Guardian.

That's the difference between "them" and us...

state_go_away

RodCrosby said:

state_go_away said:

I think somebody below said they would be proud to be called a 'Brit' . I would find it cringeworthy . In general I hate abbreviations , I am a 'Briton' and I went to 'university' not 'uni'. Actually I do find it offensive that we are determined as a country to dumb down like this!!

Perhaps, but would you run to the Police over it?
Or the OED?

it may be drastic but if it stops people saying they are at /went to 'uni' I might consider involving the police to be a perfectly proportionate response to wipe out this manifestation

AndyJS

Apparently the police are investigating an offensive message on social media regarding the Glasgow tragedy.

This is absolutely NOT what the police should be spending their time and resources on IMO. With 65 million people in the country, there are always going to be some people who post offensive messages about almost any event, and to attempt to pursue them is utter madness.

state_go_away

AndyJS said:

Apparently the police are investigating an offensive message on social media regarding the Glasgow tragedy.

This is absolutely NOT what the police should be spending their time and resources on IMO. With 65 million people in the country, there are always going to be some people who post offensive messages about almost any event, and to attempt to pursue them is utter madness.

On this I have to agree, unless a post is directly intimidating to an individual either in its tone or frequency the best that you can do is accept that there are disturbed and sad people out there who whilst being pathetic are not worth bothering about

Dimitry

If I might just find a small chink to squeeze this in......

As a long-term daily lurker on this forum since before the 2010 election, I’d like to use the Christmas festivities to give thanks to all who make it so interesting to read. I don’t really have time to do more than catch up with all your varied thoughts and rarely have anything original to say that doesn’t get said by someone else eventually, but I find that reading so many varied opinions does help me get my own thoughts in order on many current political issues. I also don’t seem to possess the gambling gene, which would seem to me to be a basic disqualification to genuine participation on this site.

So, to mark the festive spirit and to show my appreciation, I’d like to offer everyone a MINCE PIE or three. Recognising that tastes differ, I’m offering them in two flavours:
Miliband Is Now Crap – Ed Perhaps Is Ejected
Miliband Is Not Crap – Ed Perhaps Is Elected
So please select as you see fit. For a certain northern poster of forthright views, I can certify that neither variety contains any turnips. Also, there’s no need to hold back, there are plenty available since I’ve put into the mincemeat the fruits of the very best to be had from the magic money trees in the orchards of Kent.

Thanks again to all as we move onward to the next tipping (or even kipping?) point. Personally, I think Jack W is the most percipient of you all but I’d feel happier if I saw the polls starting more strongly to reflect his core assessment on the electoral prospects of Ed Miliband!

And now back to lurking for another year. I wish you all an interesting 2015.

state_go_away

Dimitry said:

If I might just find a small chink to squeeze this in......

As a long-term daily lurker on this forum since before the 2010 election, I’d like to use the Christmas festivities to give thanks to all who make it so interesting to read. I don’t really have time to do more than catch up with all your varied thoughts and rarely have anything original to say that doesn’t get said by someone else eventually, but I find that reading so many varied opinions does help me get my own thoughts in order on many current political issues. I also don’t seem to possess the gambling gene, which would seem to me to be a basic disqualification to genuine participation on this site.

So, to mark the festive spirit and to show my appreciation, I’d like to offer everyone a MINCE PIE or three. Recognising that tastes differ, I’m offering them in two flavours:
Miliband Is Now Crap – Ed Perhaps Is Ejected
Miliband Is Not Crap – Ed Perhaps Is Elected
So please select as you see fit. For a certain northern poster of forthright views, I can certify that neither variety contains any turnips. Also, there’s no need to hold back, there are plenty available since I’ve put into the mincemeat the fruits of the very best to be had from the magic money trees in the orchards of Kent.

Thanks again to all as we move onward to the next tipping (or even kipping?) point. Personally, I think Jack W is the most percipient of you all but I’d feel happier if I saw the polls starting more strongly to reflect his core assessment on the electoral prospects of Ed Miliband!

And now back to lurking for another year. I wish you all an interesting 2015.

I find it impressive that you can lurk like that . The 'bigmouth' in me could never allow me to lurk

Icarus

I remember some years ago now, an American General on the Today programme from, I think Sudan, saying how good other UN peacekeepers were - especially the Brits and the Pakis.

I am sure he only praised the Brits 'cos he was on the BBC!

Not sure it matters what you call people it is the thought behind the words that matter.

Happy Christmas to every one on PB.com

state_go_away

A reminder to fans of British history , the public ballet for Richard the Third's funeral service ends on New Years Eve. A unique event which should be one of the true highlights of 2015!!

Tim_B

state_go_away said:

A reminder to fans of British history , the public ballet for Richard the Third's funeral service ends on New Years Eve. A unique event which should be one of the true highlights of 2015!!

a ballet - is it at Covent Garden?

dugarbandier

Tim_B said:

state_go_away said:

A reminder to fans of British history , the public ballet for Richard the Third's funeral service ends on New Years Eve. A unique event which should be one of the true highlights of 2015!!

a ballet - is it at Covent Garden?

it's what he would have wanted, no doubt

state_go_away

dugarbandier said:

Tim_B said:

state_go_away said:

A reminder to fans of British history , the public ballet for Richard the Third's funeral service ends on New Years Eve. A unique event which should be one of the true highlights of 2015!!

a ballet - is it at Covent Garden?

it's what he would have wanted, no doubt

God I hope I haven't entered some kind of dance- off for a ticket!!

Socrates

For those having a go at Al Sharpton, it's worth bearing in mind in a recent speech he made a point of going out of his way to say how much it touched his heart that there were so many white protesters holding up signs saying "Black lives matter".

AndyJS

I hope you don't wait another year before posting again!

Dimitry said:

If I might just find a small chink to squeeze this in......

As a long-term daily lurker on this forum since before the 2010 election, I’d like to use the Christmas festivities to give thanks to all who make it so interesting to read. I don’t really have time to do more than catch up with all your varied thoughts and rarely have anything original to say that doesn’t get said by someone else eventually, but I find that reading so many varied opinions does help me get my own thoughts in order on many current political issues. I also don’t seem to possess the gambling gene, which would seem to me to be a basic disqualification to genuine participation on this site.

So, to mark the festive spirit and to show my appreciation, I’d like to offer everyone a MINCE PIE or three. Recognising that tastes differ, I’m offering them in two flavours:
Miliband Is Now Crap – Ed Perhaps Is Ejected
Miliband Is Not Crap – Ed Perhaps Is Elected
So please select as you see fit. For a certain northern poster of forthright views, I can certify that neither variety contains any turnips. Also, there’s no need to hold back, there are plenty available since I’ve put into the mincemeat the fruits of the very best to be had from the magic money trees in the orchards of Kent.

Thanks again to all as we move onward to the next tipping (or even kipping?) point. Personally, I think Jack W is the most percipient of you all but I’d feel happier if I saw the polls starting more strongly to reflect his core assessment on the electoral prospects of Ed Miliband!

And now back to lurking for another year. I wish you all an interesting 2015.

Charles

dugarbandier said:

Tim_B said:

state_go_away said:

A reminder to fans of British history , the public ballet for Richard the Third's funeral service ends on New Years Eve. A unique event which should be one of the true highlights of 2015!!

a ballet - is it at Covent Garden?

it's what he would have wanted, no doubt

Applause! Applause! My kingdom for applause!

(I'll get my coat)

Tim_B

Socrates said:

For those having a go at Al Sharpton, it's worth bearing in mind in a recent speech he made a point of going out of his way to say how much it touched his heart that there were so many white protesters holding up signs saying "Black lives matter".

You might want to investigate his history a little before defending him - particularly the Tawana Brawley incident. The man is a race baiter, unscrupulous, and entirely without any principles other than self- aggrandizement. I have had the misfortune to meet him.

Socrates

Tim_B said:

Socrates said:

For those having a go at Al Sharpton, it's worth bearing in mind in a recent speech he made a point of going out of his way to say how much it touched his heart that there were so many white protesters holding up signs saying "Black lives matter".

You might want to investigate his history a little before defending him - particularly the Tawana Brawley incident. The man is a race baiter, unscrupulous, and entirely without any principles other than self- aggrandizement. I have had the misfortune to meet him.

When did I defend him? I merely mentioned a point to bear in mind.

Socrates

Sean_F said:

AndyJS said:

Today's elite: caring about verbal insults while doing nothing about forced marriages, FGM and grooming of underage girls.

Exalting the trivial, while neglecting the essential.

That's pretty much the hallmark of any elite that's on the way out.

To be fair, I think the elite have done quite a lot on combatting FGM.

The refusal to do a national investigation about thousands of children raped by grooming gangs is horrific however. Anyone with even a peripheral responsibility for such matters at a national level should hang their heads in shame.

Paul_Mid_Beds

Isn't the core of the issue being discussed on this thread that our elite have such a warped outlook on life that they have made rudeness an imprisonable offence?

Carnyx

state_go_away said:

AndyJS said:

Apparently the police are investigating an offensive message on social media regarding the Glasgow tragedy.

This is absolutely NOT what the police should be spending their time and resources on IMO. With 65 million people in the country, there are always going to be some people who post offensive messages about almost any event, and to attempt to pursue them is utter madness.

On this I have to agree, unless a post is directly intimidating to an individual either in its tone or frequency the best that you can do is accept that there are disturbed and sad people out there who whilst being pathetic are not worth bothering about

I am not sure if you and Mr JS have seen the actual wording, in view of what you have just said about direct relevance to specific people, and in view also of the possible consequences of police inaction.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/12/23/glasgow-crash-tweet_n_6371428.html

Anyway, good night and best wishes to everyone for a happy Christmas and a safe and prosperous New Year.

RodCrosby

Paul_Mid_Beds said:

Isn't the core of the issue being discussed on this thread that our elite have such a warped outlook on life that they have made rudeness an imprisonable offence?

Not even rudeness. Just daring to use common-parlance circa pre-1975...

Tim_B

Socrates said:

Tim_B said:

Socrates said:

For those having a go at Al Sharpton, it's worth bearing in mind in a recent speech he made a point of going out of his way to say how much it touched his heart that there were so many white protesters holding up signs saying "Black lives matter".

You might want to investigate his history a little before defending him - particularly the Tawana Brawley incident. The man is a race baiter, unscrupulous, and entirely without any principles other than self- aggrandizement. I have had the misfortune to meet him.

When did I defend him? I merely mentioned a point to bear in mind.

Let's cover some basics. According to the news channels he has been to the Obama White House 81 times. He is also a close associate of Bill de Blasio. Both Obama and de Blasio have said inflammatory things about Ferguson and Staten Island, instead of trying to unite the nation and calm the situation.

He is not elected to anything - indeed he has been spectacularly unsuccessful in that area - and can claim to represent nobody. He has been found guilty of defamation and owes several million dollars in back taxes.

de Blasio, finally realizing he has gone too far and has totally alienated NYPD, asked that the protests be suspended until the cops assassinated last saturday are buried.

Sharpton refused, saying that it was more important than ever to keep the protests going now.

It was at one of those meetings - after a hispanic and an Asian-American cop were killed eating their lunch by a black man - that Sharpton made his comments about how black lives matter. What about hispanic or Asian-American lives? Answer came there none.

The NYPD is less than 50% white.

Sharpton is despicable.

ajb1970

Wow! What a lot of racists.

Charles

Socrates said:

Sean_F said:

AndyJS said:

Today's elite: caring about verbal insults while doing nothing about forced marriages, FGM and grooming of underage girls.

Exalting the trivial, while neglecting the essential.

That's pretty much the hallmark of any elite that's on the way out.

To be fair, I think the elite have done quite a lot on combatting FGM.

The refusal to do a national investigation about thousands of children raped by grooming gangs is horrific however. Anyone with even a peripheral responsibility for such matters at a national level should hang their heads in shame.

There has been an ongoing attempt to set up a inquiry, stymied by people who are willing to try to tear down very suitable candidates as chairman over a perceived - or claimed - conflict of interest.

And there are many matters that are, no doubt, the subject of ongoing investigation and/or complicated by the involvement of the security services that make public statements difficult

Socrates

@Tim_B

I'm not interested in getting in an argument on Christmas Eve. You have your mind made up on this, and I don't feel like investing the time to challenge it.