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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It could be that GE2015 is determined by Scottish IndyRef N

SystemSystem Posts: 12,214
edited December 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It could be that GE2015 is determined by Scottish IndyRef NO voters who are currently undecided about GE15

What is striking is the very different don’t know levels on Westminster voting intention between those who voted YES in the referendum and those who VOTED NO.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • dobbindobbin Posts: 28
    If 45% is SNP vote at GE doubt tactical voting will have much impact
  • Mr. Dobbin, indeed, although it could lead to one or two surprising results (as could happen with UKIP support in certain areas).
  • That's an interesting point Mike has picked up, but is there any reason to suppose that it's tactical voting which is driving this? Isn't it more likely to be simple disenchantment with Scottish Labour, leaving previous Labour supporters unsure where (or whether) to place their X?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    The chaotic selection process in Basildon South has had a small effect on the UKIP price... 3/1 from 5/2

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/basildon-south-and-east-thurrock/winning-party
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2014
    It's already been praised on here... apparently we should give the 18 year olds who devised it the vote (?)
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Grim and, frankly, nauseating. ISIS slave markets...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30573385
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Just spotted a facebook posting from my young cousin that he is in the restaurant in George Sq beside the scene of the tragedy. Thankfully he is ok but at least 6 are dead.
  • dobbindobbin Posts: 28
    As a Tory voter if i were in a SLAB v SNP seat i would assuredly consider voting SNP to hopefully knock UK Labour down a seat and would not be surprised if SNP push that option in the more genteel corners of constituencies.
  • Surely the higher proportion of undecideds for No voters reflects the greater choice available to them , Tory, Labour , LibDem or UKIP whereas Yes voters only have the quasi-fascist Green/Nationalist combine available.
  • Mr. Easterross, glad he's alright.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    isam said:

    The chaotic selection process in Basildon South has had a small effect on the UKIP price... 3/1 from 5/2

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/basildon-south-and-east-thurrock/winning-party

    However as we know it is not punters who decide the winning candidate in each seat. That is down to roughly 75,000 voters. I wonder how much damage Kerry Smith has really done to UKIP's prospects. Possibly far beyond the boundaries of Basildon.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Cat Food Breath @CatFoodBreath
    You say "Christmas tree," I say "Giant make-your-own kitty toy." #OccupyTree
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    Horrendous accident in Glasgow. Bin lorry kills several pedestrians.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    isam said:

    It's already been praised on here... apparently we should give the 18 year olds who devised it the vote (?)
    18 year olds already have the vote.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Some details form Glasgow accident. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30580114

    BBC think driver had heart attack.

    @Easterross glad to read your cousin was safe.
  • @PopulusPolls: Final VI of the year: Lab 35 (=), Con 35 (+1), LD 9 (=), UKIP 12 (-1), Oth 9 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/qYc455Ybqv
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    The chaotic selection process in Basildon South has had a small effect on the UKIP price... 3/1 from 5/2

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/basildon-south-and-east-thurrock/winning-party

    However as we know it is not punters who decide the winning candidate in each seat. That is down to roughly 75,000 voters. I wonder how much damage Kerry Smith has really done to UKIP's prospects. Possibly far beyond the boundaries of Basildon.
    Yeah I was pointing out that the odds were saying they were less likely to win.. but good to see you don't read properly and just go on the attack!

    I wouldn't have thought very many people in the wider public would have noticed, and that fewer still will remember come May
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2014
    BenM said:

    isam said:

    It's already been praised on here... apparently we should give the 18 year olds who devised it the vote (?)
    18 year olds already have the vote.
    You don't say

    I have done it myself on occasion... trying to be smart when somebody is being ironic makes you feel very foolish doesn't it?
  • @PopulusPolls: Final VI of the year: Lab 35 (=), Con 35 (+1), LD 9 (=), UKIP 12 (-1), Oth 9 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/qYc455Ybqv

    So which is, Labour cruising to victory or neck and neck?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,183

    @PopulusPolls: Final VI of the year: Lab 35 (=), Con 35 (+1), LD 9 (=), UKIP 12 (-1), Oth 9 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/qYc455Ybqv

    I'll call that 35/35/10/10 within engineering accuracy.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,536

    @PopulusPolls: Final VI of the year: Lab 35 (=), Con 35 (+1), LD 9 (=), UKIP 12 (-1), Oth 9 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/qYc455Ybqv

    So which is, Labour cruising to victory or neck and neck?
    I think it's very tight. Populus tends to give Labour and the Conservatives their best scores.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,889
    RN In a straight fight with the SNP No voters may have a Tory, Labour or LD to choose from to keep them out, for Yes voters the choice will always be SNP, the Greens are not in the top 2 in any Scottish seat
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited December 2014

    For those wot missed it yesterday:

    Well, there might well be a couple of stray polls leading into Christmas week [update: yes, such as Populus], but this week's Sunil on Sunday ELBOW (Electoral Leader-Board Of The Week) for the 12 polls with field-work ened-dates between the 14th and 20th Dec, total sample size 14,091:

    Lab 34.2% (+0.6)
    Con 31.6% (-1.1)
    UKIP 15.0% (-0.4)
    LD 7.5% (nc)

    Lab lead 2.6% (+1.7)

    Take-home:

    * Highest Labour lead since 12th October. Though it may seem to be an outlier, three weeks ago (30th Nov), Lab did have a lead of 2.1%.
    * Tories down quite a bit, but UKIP also down a touch.
    * Whither crossover?

    Was it all you were hoping for?

    In graphical form:

    Sunil Prasannan ‏@Sunil_P2 · 21 Dec
    Final Sunil on Sunday ELBOW (Electoral Leader-Board Of the Week) for 2014: Lab 34.2%, Con 31.6%, UKIP 15.0%, LD 7.5%.

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/546765234917359617
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited December 2014
    Sunil Prasannan ‏@Sunil_P2 · 21 Dec
    Labour weekly leads in ELBOW since 17th August: Latest and final Lab lead for 2014 = 2.6%.

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/546769961419804673
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited December 2014
    isam said:

    It's already been praised on here... apparently we should give the 18 year olds who devised it the vote (?)
    UKIP's problem, rightly or wrongly, is that many supporters are seen as misogynist, homophobic, racists. Perceptions like this can be very damaging and I'm expecting to see tactical anti-UKIP voting in some of your targets.
  • @PopulusPolls: Final VI of the year: Lab 35 (=), Con 35 (+1), LD 9 (=), UKIP 12 (-1), Oth 9 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/qYc455Ybqv

    So which is, Labour cruising to victory or neck and neck?
    CON & LAB level pegging = a CON to LAB swing of 3.65% & the Tories losing seats.

  • This has to be a mash story.

    UKIP candidate complains a ‘homosexual donkey’ tried to rape his horse

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/12/22/ukip-candidate-complains-a-homosexual-donkey-tried-to-rape-his-horse/
  • F1: Ferrari chairman reckons 2015 will be tough but by the end of the year they can be where Mercedes are:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/30580526

    I think he's half-right.
  • Sean_F said:

    @PopulusPolls: Final VI of the year: Lab 35 (=), Con 35 (+1), LD 9 (=), UKIP 12 (-1), Oth 9 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/qYc455Ybqv

    So which is, Labour cruising to victory or neck and neck?
    I think it's very tight. Populus tends to give Labour and the Conservatives their best scores.

    The 70% CON+LAB aggregate in today's Populus online is highest by far of all firms. Amongst phone pollsters CON+LAB not more than 61%
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    FTPT..Re Newcastle ..not only was Newcastle a wealthy area in terms of shopping and clubbing..my Geordie assistant cameraman, from a single mother family and from a council estate..bought a brand new e-type jag...not too dusty..nice car.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    It's already been praised on here... apparently we should give the 18 year olds who devised it the vote (?)
    UKIP's problem, rightly or wrongly, is that many supporters are seen a misogynist, homophobic, racists. Perceptions like this can be very damaging and I'm expecting to see tactical anti-UKIP voting in some of your targets.
    I cant deny that perception exists, or that it gives me pause for thought at times.

    But I have to disagree that there will be any significant anti UKIP tactical voting in UKIP targets, and this is why...

    A UKIP win that costs Labour a seat helps the Tories and vice versa... why would one vote for the other when, in probably the closest election for decades, every seat is vital?

    In the end, if it's UKIP or Labour (Thurrock/Grimsby), Tories will vote UKIP, Tory or stay at home... If its UKIP or Tory, (Clacton/Rochester) Labs will vote UKIP, Labour or stay at home

    Lib Dems may vote tactically to keep UKIP out.. but many previous Lib Dems were NOTA who were just voting for "Not Tory or Labour", and some of those types vote UKIP anyway now.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I amazed that Thatcher was able to weave her economic miracle with the mere billions upon billions of bonus tax receipts from North Sea oil that was not available to previous administrations - especially when oil was at an all time high. I'm sure it was mere coincidence that she had economic problems when North Sea oil revenues collapsed along with the price of oil.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341

    FTPT..Re Newcastle ..not only was Newcastle a wealthy area in terms of shopping and clubbing..my Geordie assistant cameraman, from a single mother family and from a council estate..bought a brand new e-type jag...not too dusty..nice car.

    I did not fully understand Viz magazine till I went to a conference at Newcastle University and saw the town on a Friday night ...

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,536

    isam said:

    It's already been praised on here... apparently we should give the 18 year olds who devised it the vote (?)
    UKIP's problem, rightly or wrongly, is that many supporters are seen as misogynist, homophobic, racists. Perceptions like this can be very damaging and I'm expecting to see tactical anti-UKIP voting in some of your targets.
    Surely, we'd have seen this in the three by-elections, if this was going to happen?

    The lesson from those is that for Labour supporters, beating the auld enemy (the Conservatives) is far more important than beating UKIP, and vice versa.

  • isam said:

    isam said:

    It's already been praised on here... apparently we should give the 18 year olds who devised it the vote (?)
    UKIP's problem, rightly or wrongly, is that many supporters are seen a misogynist, homophobic, racists. Perceptions like this can be very damaging and I'm expecting to see tactical anti-UKIP voting in some of your targets.
    I think that you are reading it wrongly and you don't appreciate the danger.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,536

    This has to be a mash story.

    UKIP candidate complains a ‘homosexual donkey’ tried to rape his horse

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/12/22/ukip-candidate-complains-a-homosexual-donkey-tried-to-rape-his-horse/

    Sealions do it to penguins (before eating them).

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    @PopulusPolls: Final VI of the year: Lab 35 (=), Con 35 (+1), LD 9 (=), UKIP 12 (-1), Oth 9 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/qYc455Ybqv

    I'll call that 35/35/10/10 within engineering accuracy.
    20% out on one of the parameters?

    Remind me not to drive over any bridges you design!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    It's already been praised on here... apparently we should give the 18 year olds who devised it the vote (?)
    UKIP's problem, rightly or wrongly, is that many supporters are seen a misogynist, homophobic, racists. Perceptions like this can be very damaging and I'm expecting to see tactical anti-UKIP voting in some of your targets.
    I think that you are reading it wrongly and you don't appreciate the danger.

    Well I have explained why I think that.. why do you think a Tory in Thurrock would vote Labour, or a Labour supporter in Rochester would vote Tory?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Alistair said:

    I amazed that Thatcher was able to weave her economic miracle with the mere billions upon billions of bonus tax receipts from North Sea oil that was not available to previous administrations - especially when oil was at an all time high. I'm sure it was mere coincidence that she had economic problems when North Sea oil revenues collapsed along with the price of oil.

    Crude oil price peaked in December 1979 (at $117 in today's money) it then went down hill continuously until it hit bottom in early 1986. It then bumped along before spiking in 1990 and then falling back to reach a modern low of $12 (again adjusted to current value) in 1998.

    You have a point about what the UK should have done with oil revenues. Shame you had to ruin it by letting your imagination run wild.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Alistair said:

    I amazed that Thatcher was able to weave her economic miracle with the mere billions upon billions of bonus tax receipts from North Sea oil that was not available to previous administrations - especially when oil was at an all time high. I'm sure it was mere coincidence that she had economic problems when North Sea oil revenues collapsed along with the price of oil.

    Exactly what percentage of tax revenues do you think the increase in oil tax revenue accounted for?
  • Oil briefly rallied to $62.50 today but down close to $60 at the moment.

    We have not found a bottom yet.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Sean_F said:

    This has to be a mash story.

    UKIP candidate complains a ‘homosexual donkey’ tried to rape his horse

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/12/22/ukip-candidate-complains-a-homosexual-donkey-tried-to-rape-his-horse/

    Sealions do it to penguins (before eating them).

    How do they get the wrappers off?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670



    Crude oil price peaked in December 1979 (at $117 in today's money) it then went down hill continuously until it hit bottom in early 1986.

    It didn't gently float to it's bottom in 1986, it was heading down but then spectacularly crashed in 86.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited December 2014
    So in 1984/85, before the drop, government revenues from North Sea oil and gas were £12 billion. Nominal GDP for that year was £381 billion. I can't find revenue data from before 1984/85, but let's be generous and assume the amount doubled, so high oil prices brought in an extra £6 billion over the end of Callaghan's reign (something that seems unlikely since 1985 and 1978 had about the same oil price). So the windfall behind Thatcher's economic miracle accounted for 1.6% of GDP.

    This is the problem with the economic left. They just find arguments and use them without pausing even for a moment to think about whether the numbers come close to working.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    UKIP do seem very short in Dagenham & Rainham... 2nd is nailed on, but I thought it would be bigger than a 5/1 shot, given local results, and the demographic changes

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/dagenham-and-rainham/winning-party
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    isam said:

    BenM said:

    isam said:

    It's already been praised on here... apparently we should give the 18 year olds who devised it the vote (?)
    18 year olds already have the vote.
    You don't say

    I have done it myself on occasion... trying to be smart when somebody is being ironic makes you feel very foolish doesn't it?
    BenM wasn't trying to be smart. He missed the irony but merely corrected something factually in a neutral way.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Anorak said:

    Grim and, frankly, nauseating. ISIS slave markets...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30573385

    And one in seven young British adults sympathise with them:

    http://www.iraqinews.com/arab-world-news/terrifying-poll-wide-sympathy-isis-among-britain-youth/

    A bunch of them will be radical leftists, but, even so, that must be a huge share of the young British Muslim population. But, of course, all immigrant groups integrate with time, right?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    There seems to be a correlation between oil price and Kipper VI.

    Perhaps Mr Putin has less campaign funds to spread around.

  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    It's already been praised on here... apparently we should give the 18 year olds who devised it the vote (?)
    UKIP's problem, rightly or wrongly, is that many supporters are seen as misogynist, homophobic, racists. Perceptions like this can be very damaging and I'm expecting to see tactical anti-UKIP voting in some of your targets.
    Surely, we'd have seen this in the three by-elections, if this was going to happen?

    The lesson from those is that for Labour supporters, beating the auld enemy (the Conservatives) is far more important than beating UKIP, and vice versa.

    2 of the 3 by elections were electing the previous tory MP. I don't think thats the same as electing Kerry Smith or Bolter wannabees, never mind Hamilton.

    Meantime
    Ukip councillor Rozanne Duncan in South Thanet has been expelled for allegedly bringing the party into disrepute with “jaw dropping” remarks in a television interview thats not even been broadcast yet
    Good of UKIP to give us this pre christmas game.
    and
    Ukip MEP, Janice 'ting tong' Atkinson, who has criticised “feckless families” is being pursued for more than £2,000 in unpaid child support.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited December 2014
    @Isam

    "I cant deny that perception exists, or that it gives me pause for thought at times."

    It does me too. However, I am comfortable in my own skin and with my own views which are not racist, misogynist or any other 'ist or 'phobe. Then I look at where the UKIP support is coming from in my own small area of the world.

    There are two primary groups. Those from the three bedroomed semi-developments of the early 1970s and those from the council estate. I think both groups can be summarised as being truly fed-up with our political class, who they see as ignoring them and theirs (and, with regard to the Council Estate, with very good reason). They have had enough they really and truly are totally pissed-off with politicians who are not on their side. UKIP is giving them a voice. OK, it might be a cry of pain and anger but someone is listening.

    Furthermore, there are signs that things are starting to change as a result. For example, would Cameron have conceded his referendum pledge without UKIP attracting his voters and so starting to make progress? I doubt it somehow. It is now respectable to question whether open-door immigration is a good idea whereas not long ago it was impossible without being labelled, mainstream parties are now having to face up to the facts.

    Will the people I meet be put off by some thinking them, "misogynist, homophobic, racists"? I doubt it very much. They are more likely to see the people who are doing the labelling as belonging to the the class that pissed them off in the first place.

    Mine is a small place and I would hate to extrapolate my experience but I strongly suspect others in other areas may find the same thing. The idea that UKIP will make a a great breakthrough in May I think is a fantasy, six seats and they will have done stunningly well, but UKIP is having an effect, giving a voice to those that the likes of Cameron would prefer to ignore, and influencing the debate.


  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited December 2014
    Anorak said:

    Grim and, frankly, nauseating. ISIS slave markets...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30573385

    From the ISIS guide:

    Question: Is it allowed to have intercourse with a female slave who has not reached puberty? Answer: You may have intercourse with a female slave who hasn't reached puberty if she is fit for intercourse. However, if she is not fit for intercourse, it is enough to enjoy her without.

    "Before Satan sows doubt among the weak-minded and weak-hearted, remember that enslaving the kuffa [infidels] and taking their women as concubines is a firmly-established aspect of Sharia."


    And it's happening in practice:

    "Janar", aged 20, tells me: "There was one 11-year-old girl. They beat her a lot. They gave her to one fighter and then to another one from Mosul. We heard that she killed herself later, in Mosul."

    Let's hope that such a mentality never comes to our towns and cities.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Alistair said:



    Crude oil price peaked in December 1979 (at $117 in today's money) it then went down hill continuously until it hit bottom in early 1986.

    It didn't gently float to it's bottom in 1986, it was heading down but then spectacularly crashed in 86.
    I know, but how does that change either what I wrote (I never said anything about "gently floating") or an explanation of HMG's policies to support your original contention?
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    @Isam


    Will the people I meet be put off by some thinking them, "misogynist, homophobic, racists"? I doubt it very much. They are more likely to see the people who are doing the labelling as belonging to the the class that pissed them off in the first place.

    As we see regularly its the people you will be voting for, crass ignorant and bigoted, that attract the attention. Its not invented - its reporting the facts. When you think there is nothing that could top it along comes something else thats 'jaw dropping'.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Socrates said:

    Anorak said:

    Grim and, frankly, nauseating. ISIS slave markets...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30573385

    From the ISIS guide:

    Question: Is it allowed to have intercourse with a female slave who has not reached puberty? Answer: You may have intercourse with a female slave who hasn't reached puberty if she is fit for intercourse. However, if she is not fit for intercourse, it is enough to enjoy her without.

    "Before Satan sows doubt among the weak-minded and weak-hearted, remember that enslaving the kuffa [infidels] and taking their women as concubines is a firmly-established aspect of Sharia."


    And it's happening in practice:

    "Janar", aged 20, tells me: "There was one 11-year-old girl. They beat her a lot. They gave her to one fighter and then to another one from Mosul. We heard that she killed herself later, in Mosul."

    Let's hope that such a mentality never comes to our towns and cities.
    Quite a few of the ISIS rapists were from Sinjar itself it seems. Good to see that the Kurds have taken it back, then take Mosul back too.
  • Mr. Flightpath, such terms have been used to control debate and demonise opponents for so long the vocabulary of accusations of bigotry has largely lost its bite (the boy who cried wolf, if you will).

    We had it when claims of Asian rape gangs in Rotherham were first made, we had it when the UKIP was accused of 'euracism' and we had it whenever the Conservatives tried to point out endless immigration might not be a good thing.

    It's been overused and diluted to the point where such accusations are, I would suggest, likelier to piss people off with the accuser than the accused.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,536

    @Isam

    "I cant deny that perception exists, or that it gives me pause for thought at times."

    It does me too. However, I am comfortable in my own skin and with my own views which are not racist, misogynist or any other 'ist or 'phobe. Then I look at where the UKIP support is coming from in my own small area of the world.

    There are two primary groups. Those from the three bedroomed semi-developments of the early 1970s and those from the council estate. I think both groups can be summarised as being truly fed-up with our political class, who they see as ignoring them and theirs (and, with regard to the Council Estate, with very good reason). They have had enough they really and truly are totally pissed-off with politicians who are not on their side. UKIP is giving them a voice. OK, it might be a cry of pain and anger but someone is listening.

    Furthermore, there are signs that things are starting to change as a result. For example, would Cameron have conceded his referendum pledge without UKIP attracting his voters and so starting to make progress? I doubt it somehow. It is now respectable to question whether open-door immigration is a good idea whereas not long ago it was impossible without being labelled, mainstream parties are now having to face up to the facts.

    Will the people I meet be put off by some thinking them, "misogynist, homophobic, racists"? I doubt it very much. They are more likely to see the people who are doing the labelling as belonging to the the class that pissed them off in the first place.

    Mine is a small place and I would hate to extrapolate my experience but I strongly suspect others in other areas may find the same thing. The idea that UKIP will make a a great breakthrough in May I think is a fantasy, six seats and they will have done stunningly well, but UKIP is having an effect, giving a voice to those that the likes of Cameron would prefer to ignore, and influencing the debate.


    And the groups that you refer to are right to think as they do. Neither the Conservatives nor Labour have their interests at heart, and nor will they have their interests at heart until their feet are held to the fire.
  • Benedict Cumberbatch is expected to win an Oscar, it seems increasingly unlikely that Prince Harry will follow his brother’s example and get engaged and there is little chance of finding life on Mars - at least that is the opinion of a wide ranging survey of what Britons think will happen during 2015.

    The poll by Ipsos Mori and the Guardian detects a definite sense of mild, if unfocused pessimism.

    Just about the only thing those surveyed were definitely upbeat about are the prospects of Sherlock actor Cumberbatch, with more than half of people (56%)thinking he will an Academy awared next year for his role as Alan Turing in The Imitation Game.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/datablog/2014/dec/22/cumberbatch-oscar-and-life-on-mars-britons-predictions-2015

  • More cheery still is the news for Ukip. Five months before the general election, more than half (57%) of those polled believe it is very or fairly likely that the party will win 10 or more seats at the general election...

    ....Labour may be alarmed that almost three quarters, or 73%, think it likely the party will poll fewer votes than the SNP in Scotland at the general election. Unhappily for the ambitions of Boris Johnson, two thirds of the country (65%) think it is fairly or very unlikely that he will become leader of the Conservative party in the coming year.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,704
    edited December 2014
    Sean_F said:

    And the groups that you refer to are right to think as they do. Neither the Conservatives nor Labour have their interests at heart, and nor will they have their interests at heart until their feet are held to the fire.

    UKIP's primary constituency seem to be current and retired right-wing Tory MPs without the prospect of a career in the executive.
  • Mr. Jonathan, many current and ex-Conservative MPs in Heywood?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,704
    Fun debate about fatcha earlier. Given that no-one has agreed about for 40 years, it was optimistic to seek agreement today.

    Can we all agree at least that she was not a conservative and would not enjoy today's Conservative party?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,704

    Mr. Jonathan, many current and ex-Conservative MPs in Heywood?


    They run in herds like buffalo on the Serangeti.
  • Jonathan said:

    Fun debate about fatcha earlier. Given that no-one has agreed about for 40 years, it was optimistic to seek agreement today.

    Can we all agree at least that she was not a conservative and would not enjoy today's Conservative party?

    Yeah she'd be in the Lib Dems today.

    Given her pro EU actions she'd definitely be a member of the party of IN
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Just about the only thing those surveyed were definitely upbeat about are the prospects of Sherlock actor Cumberbatch, with more than half of people (56%)thinking he will an Academy awared next year for his role as Alan Turing in The Imitation Game.

    Given that only 1-2% of the country will have seen it, that's a bit odd.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    J..Thatcher would sort out the Conservatives as Blair would sort out the Labour mess..in the meantime.. we all soldier on..chinup lad...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,536

    @Isam


    Will the people I meet be put off by some thinking them, "misogynist, homophobic, racists"? I doubt it very much. They are more likely to see the people who are doing the labelling as belonging to the the class that pissed them off in the first place.

    As we see regularly its the people you will be voting for, crass ignorant and bigoted, that attract the attention. Its not invented - its reporting the facts. When you think there is nothing that could top it along comes something else thats 'jaw dropping'.
    But the political class which you wish us to keep voting for is so much worse.

    Peter Morrison and Cyril Smith raped boys. Chris Huhne was jailed for perverting the course of justice. Lords Taylor and Hanningfield were jailed for fiddling their expenses, along with four Labour MP's. Lord Watson set fire to a hotel, when drunk. Mike Hancock sexually harassed a mentally handicapped constituent. Councillors in Rotherham ignored child rape. The list of scandals in the "mainstream" is ever-lengthening.

    But, you think referring to "ting tong" is so much worse.
  • Anorak said:

    Just about the only thing those surveyed were definitely upbeat about are the prospects of Sherlock actor Cumberbatch, with more than half of people (56%)thinking he will an Academy awared next year for his role as Alan Turing in The Imitation Game.

    Given that only 1-2% of the country will have seen it, that's a bit odd.
    Everyone in the country bar Sunil knows Cumberbatch is the greatest actor this country has produced since Olivier or Patrick Stewart.
  • Jonathan said:

    Mr. Jonathan, many current and ex-Conservative MPs in Heywood?


    They run in herds like buffalo on the Serangeti.
    There aren't any buffalo in the Serengeti.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited December 2014
    Sean_F said:

    And the groups that you refer to are right to think as they do. Neither the Conservatives nor Labour have their interests at heart

    Really? And UKIP somehow do? How exactly?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    Just about the only thing those surveyed were definitely upbeat about are the prospects of Sherlock actor Cumberbatch, with more than half of people (56%)thinking he will an Academy awared next year for his role as Alan Turing in The Imitation Game.

    Given that only 1-2% of the country will have seen it, that's a bit odd.
    Everyone in the country bar Sunil knows Cumberbatch is the greatest actor this country has produced since Olivier or Patrick Stewart.
    In that case 56% is strangely low. The man just generates enigmas, doesn't he. D'ya see what I did there, Turing, Enigma, etc. Man, I'm good.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Jonathan said:

    Mr. Jonathan, many current and ex-Conservative MPs in Heywood?


    They run in herds like buffalo on the Serangeti.
    There aren't any buffalo in the Serengeti.
    But you can view vast hoards of Wildebeest in Torquay
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Jonathan said:

    Mr. Jonathan, many current and ex-Conservative MPs in Heywood?


    They run in herds like buffalo on the Serangeti.
    There aren't any buffalo in the Serengeti.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_buffalo
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited December 2014
    Socrates said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mr. Jonathan, many current and ex-Conservative MPs in Heywood?


    They run in herds like buffalo on the Serangeti.
    There aren't any buffalo in the Serengeti.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_buffalo
    He meant there aren't any herds of buffalo in the Serengeti. Probably. Do I look like David Attenborough?
  • Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    Just about the only thing those surveyed were definitely upbeat about are the prospects of Sherlock actor Cumberbatch, with more than half of people (56%)thinking he will an Academy awared next year for his role as Alan Turing in The Imitation Game.

    Given that only 1-2% of the country will have seen it, that's a bit odd.
    Everyone in the country bar Sunil knows Cumberbatch is the greatest actor this country has produced since Olivier or Patrick Stewart.
    In that case 56% is strangely low. The man just generates enigmas, doesn't he. D'ya see what I did there, Turing, Enigma, etc. Man, I'm good.
    Dearie me.

    Yes I am aware of the irony of me complaining about some one else's puns
  • The Imitation Game is a terrible film. OK, Keira Knightley does a very convincing portrayal of Keira Knightley, and Benedict Cumberbatch is quite good as Alan Turing, even if he does make him out to be a borderline lunatic. But the anachronisms are staggering, and the whole thing is much less interesting than the real story.
  • The Imitation Game is a terrible film. OK, Keira Knightley does a very convincing portrayal of Keira Knightley, and Benedict Cumberbatch is quite good as Alan Turing, even if he does make him out to be a borderline lunatic. But the anachronisms are staggering, and the whole thing is much less interesting than the real story.

    The bit that pissed me off about that film. That he knew John Cairncross being a traitor and not doing anything about it.

    Historically inaccurate and utter bollocks.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,704

    Jonathan said:

    Mr. Jonathan, many current and ex-Conservative MPs in Heywood?


    They run in herds like buffalo on the Serangeti.
    There aren't any buffalo in the Serengeti.
    What on Earth are you blathering about. Here is proof of Michael Fabricant roaming free (photo top left).

    http://www.serengeti.org/bigfive_buffalo.html
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Sean_F said:

    And the groups that you refer to are right to think as they do. Neither the Conservatives nor Labour have their interests at heart

    Really? And UKIP somehow do? How exactly?
    The other parties impose a stealth tax on them by way of mass immigration of cheap labour, and UKIP will put a stop to it, as well as not calling them names for daring to mention it
  • Sean_F said:

    @Isam


    Will the people I meet be put off by some thinking them, "misogynist, homophobic, racists"? I doubt it very much. They are more likely to see the people who are doing the labelling as belonging to the the class that pissed them off in the first place.

    As we see regularly its the people you will be voting for, crass ignorant and bigoted, that attract the attention. Its not invented - its reporting the facts. When you think there is nothing that could top it along comes something else thats 'jaw dropping'.
    But the political class which you wish us to keep voting for is so much worse.

    Peter Morrison and Cyril Smith raped boys. Chris Huhne was jailed for perverting the course of justice. Lords Taylor and Hanningfield were jailed for fiddling their expenses, along with four Labour MP's. Lord Watson set fire to a hotel, when drunk. Mike Hancock sexually harassed a mentally handicapped constituent. Councillors in Rotherham ignored child rape. The list of scandals in the "mainstream" is ever-lengthening.

    But, you think referring to "ting tong" is so much worse.
    Well said.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Sean_F said:

    @Isam


    Will the people I meet be put off by some thinking them, "misogynist, homophobic, racists"? I doubt it very much. They are more likely to see the people who are doing the labelling as belonging to the the class that pissed them off in the first place.

    As we see regularly its the people you will be voting for, crass ignorant and bigoted, that attract the attention. Its not invented - its reporting the facts. When you think there is nothing that could top it along comes something else thats 'jaw dropping'.
    But the political class which you wish us to keep voting for is so much worse.

    Peter Morrison and Cyril Smith raped boys. Chris Huhne was jailed for perverting the course of justice. Lords Taylor and Hanningfield were jailed for fiddling their expenses, along with four Labour MP's. Lord Watson set fire to a hotel, when drunk. Mike Hancock sexually harassed a mentally handicapped constituent. Councillors in Rotherham ignored child rape. The list of scandals in the "mainstream" is ever-lengthening.

    But, you think referring to "ting tong" is so much worse.
    You forgot Eric Joyce. For people like Cyril Smith becoming an MP decades ago would be the ideal thing to achieve. Its an attractive option for people like him to move where they can protect themselves. I'm sure there are others like him and probably will be others in the future, we should expect it. The Scout Association is copping it now.
    However I do not see how pointing to one loony excuses countless others. You could point to Hamilton - but he finds a ready hole in UKIP. Farage finds little to talk about in economics so he can happily peddle immigration and give out his racist dog whistles to prop up his party.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    @Isam


    Will the people I meet be put off by some thinking them, "misogynist, homophobic, racists"? I doubt it very much. They are more likely to see the people who are doing the labelling as belonging to the the class that pissed them off in the first place.

    As we see regularly its the people you will be voting for, crass ignorant and bigoted, that attract the attention. Its not invented - its reporting the facts. When you think there is nothing that could top it along comes something else thats 'jaw dropping'.
    In May the bloke I will be voting for is ex-RN, long service, lower-deck on submarines. I have had tea with him and his wife and found them very nice people. He is not crass, ignorant and bigoted.

    Nevermind, you just keep chucking the labels around, old boy. It probably makes you feel better and it stops you having to think about why the Conservative party is doing so damn badly.
  • Sean_F said:

    @Isam


    Will the people I meet be put off by some thinking them, "misogynist, homophobic, racists"? I doubt it very much. They are more likely to see the people who are doing the labelling as belonging to the the class that pissed them off in the first place.

    As we see regularly its the people you will be voting for, crass ignorant and bigoted, that attract the attention. Its not invented - its reporting the facts. When you think there is nothing that could top it along comes something else thats 'jaw dropping'.
    But the political class which you wish us to keep voting for is so much worse.

    Peter Morrison and Cyril Smith raped boys. Chris Huhne was jailed for perverting the course of justice. Lords Taylor and Hanningfield were jailed for fiddling their expenses, along with four Labour MP's. Lord Watson set fire to a hotel, when drunk. Mike Hancock sexually harassed a mentally handicapped constituent. Councillors in Rotherham ignored child rape. The list of scandals in the "mainstream" is ever-lengthening.

    But, you think referring to "ting tong" is so much worse.
    It's almost as if you've forgotten UKIP MEPs being inprisoned or one UKIP constituency chairman being jailed for grooming kids.

    UKIP are in the same class
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited December 2014

    The Imitation Game is a terrible film. OK, Keira Knightley does a very convincing portrayal of Keira Knightley, and Benedict Cumberbatch is quite good as Alan Turing, even if he does make him out to be a borderline lunatic. But the anachronisms are staggering, and the whole thing is much less interesting than the real story.

    The bit that pissed me off about that film. That he knew John Cairncross being a traitor and not doing anything about it.

    Historically inaccurate and utter bollocks.
    It's hard to know where to start. Talking about Enigma openly in a tea room might be one place. Hugging each other when they eventually break the code might be another (this is the 1940s, not 2014). The apparent fact that Turing seems to have built the bombes entirely by himself is another. Lots of chaps smoking cigarattes but no pipes in view? Women drinking pints of beer? Keira Knightley dressed and with her hair styled as though its 2014, not 1941. The Cairncross part was just bizarre, as were the faked-up rows and chaps trying to attack the bombe.

    OK, you can perhaps excuse them simplifying things, but this really wasn't very good.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Benedict Cumberbatch is expected to win an Oscar, it seems increasingly unlikely that Prince Harry will follow his brother’s example and get engaged and there is little chance of finding life on Mars - at least that is the opinion of a wide ranging survey of what Britons think will happen during 2015.

    The poll by Ipsos Mori and the Guardian detects a definite sense of mild, if unfocused pessimism.

    Just about the only thing those surveyed were definitely upbeat about are the prospects of Sherlock actor Cumberbatch, with more than half of people (56%)thinking he will an Academy awared next year for his role as Alan Turing in The Imitation Game.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/datablog/2014/dec/22/cumberbatch-oscar-and-life-on-mars-britons-predictions-2015

    Persecuted gay hero who helped save the world as we know it?

    What part of that story will appeal to the Academy voters?
  • UKIP Today. Newsround.

    Nick Denys‏@betapolitics·51 mins51 minutes ago
    In todays Ukip news: 1) Farage complains about a Ukip paradoy app. 2) Ukip candidate complains that a gay donkey tried to rape his horse.

    Nick Denys‏@betapolitics·39 mins39 minutes ago
    What did that Ukip lady say to get deselected? Everyday the tension is builds as we learn of new things Ukip candidates ARE allowed to say.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Socrates said:

    So in 1984/85, before the drop, government revenues from North Sea oil and gas were £12 billion. Nominal GDP for that year was £381 billion. I can't find revenue data from before 1984/85, but let's be generous and assume the amount doubled, so high oil prices brought in an extra £6 billion over the end of Callaghan's reign (something that seems unlikely since 1985 and 1978 had about the same oil price). So the windfall behind Thatcher's economic miracle accounted for 1.6% of GDP.

    This is the problem with the economic left. They just find arguments and use them without pausing even for a moment to think about whether the numbers come close to working.

    Err, you seem to be conflating GDP and Tax take there.

    Also, I don't have the figure to hand as the HMRC seem to have taken down the webpage but at the end of Callaghan North Sea oil tax revenue wasn't even 1 billion pounds.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,536

    Sean_F said:

    @Isam


    Will the people I meet be put off by some thinking them, "misogynist, homophobic, racists"? I doubt it very much. They are more likely to see the people who are doing the labelling as belonging to the the class that pissed them off in the first place.

    As we see regularly its the people you will be voting for, crass ignorant and bigoted, that attract the attention. Its not invented - its reporting the facts. When you think there is nothing that could top it along comes something else thats 'jaw dropping'.
    But the political class which you wish us to keep voting for is so much worse.

    Peter Morrison and Cyril Smith raped boys. Chris Huhne was jailed for perverting the course of justice. Lords Taylor and Hanningfield were jailed for fiddling their expenses, along with four Labour MP's. Lord Watson set fire to a hotel, when drunk. Mike Hancock sexually harassed a mentally handicapped constituent. Councillors in Rotherham ignored child rape. The list of scandals in the "mainstream" is ever-lengthening.

    But, you think referring to "ting tong" is so much worse.
    It's almost as if you've forgotten UKIP MEPs being inprisoned or one UKIP constituency chairman being jailed for grooming kids.

    UKIP are in the same class
    There are awful people in UKIP, too. I just think that our current leaders have forfeited any right to enjoy the continued confidence of the voters, and UKIP are the only people (South of the Border) who can shake up the system. And I agree with them over the EU and mass immigration.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    I simply do not understand this obsession with Benedict Cumberbatch. He looks weird and is not in the least bit handsome and his acting - what I have seen of it - is mannered.

    He has all the sex appeal of a pint of milk.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Mr. Flightpath, such terms have been used to control debate and demonise opponents for so long the vocabulary of accusations of bigotry has largely lost its bite (the boy who cried wolf, if you will).

    We had it when claims of Asian rape gangs in Rotherham were first made, we had it when the UKIP was accused of 'euracism' and we had it whenever the Conservatives tried to point out endless immigration might not be a good thing.

    It's been overused and diluted to the point where such accusations are, I would suggest, likelier to piss people off with the accuser than the accused.

    Who is crying wolf?
    The BBC say ''Rozanne Duncan is understood to have used highly racially offensive language during filming for a BBC documentary to be broadcast in February.''
    I'm pleased that UKIP have expelled her. But really what they would have preferred was she had kept her opinions to herself. This is what they have told their candidates. Buit she is the sort of person UKIP is attracting and UKIP and Farage have gone out of their way to talk their language.
    I'm glad this woman and various other bigots have upped and left the tory party, because times have moved on. If there are any left then they can shove off too for me; I hope there are not any. The problems of immigration can do without a racist solution.
    Sadly Farage weasels every way to stick up for the likes of Kerry Smith. He toils to make racism respectable. It stinks.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    The Imitation Game is a terrible film. OK, Keira Knightley does a very convincing portrayal of Keira Knightley, and Benedict Cumberbatch is quite good as Alan Turing, even if he does make him out to be a borderline lunatic. But the anachronisms are staggering, and the whole thing is much less interesting than the real story.

    It's hard to know where to start. Talking about Enigma openly in a tea room might be one place. Hugging each other when they eventually break the code might be another (this is the 1940s, not 2014). The apparent fact that Turing seems to have built the bombes entirely by himself is another. Lots of chaps smoking cigarattes but no pipes in view? Women drinking pints of beer? Keira Knightley dressed and with her hair styled as though its 2014, not 1941. The Cairncross part was just bizarre, as were the faked-up rows and chaps trying to attack the bombe.

    OK, you can perhaps excuse them simplifying things, but this really wasn't very good.
    "A Vital message - hidden in a laughable movie

    Crowds are flocking to see The Imitation Game, the laughable new film about computer genius Alan Turing. I think they are mainly women besotted with Benedict Cumberbatch, though some men may enjoy the sight of Keira Knightley got up as a 1940s intellectual sexpot.

    It’s the usual hopeless attempt to recreate the past by dressing the cast in acres of tweed, making them all smoke and renting some ancient cars. But the ending is genuinely horrible. The homosexual Turing is shown robbed of his mental powers by hormone drugs supposedly intended to make him ‘normal’.

    We can all shudder at this stupid and wrong treatment. But it is easy to condemn the follies of the past. At the time, fashionable opinion believed Turing’s ‘chemical castration’ was a humane alternative to prison.

    What similarly stupid things do we believe today? How about this? Despite growing medical doubts (a report this week said it had more to do with drug marketing than medicine), we dope huge numbers of children with pills very similar to illegal amphetamines. This mass-doping is justified by the suspect ‘diagnosis’ of an alleged complaint called ‘ADHD’. If Alan Turing were a child now, I think it pretty likely that his ‘odd’ behaviour would lead him to be drugged in this way, killing his special talents.

    It seems to me very probable that, as you read this, some potential genius is having his life blighted, forced by smiling adults to swallow pills to make him ‘normal’. We can see this was wrong in 1953. Why can’t we see it is wrong now?"


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2845812/PETER-HITCHENS-night-fleet-Tory-snake-oil-tankers-sailed-Rochester-sank.html#ixzz3MeX4wzlP
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Joe Cocker RIP

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRzKUVjHkGk


  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Jonathan said:

    Mr. Jonathan, many current and ex-Conservative MPs in Heywood?


    They run in herds like buffalo on the Serangeti.
    There aren't any buffalo in the Serengeti.
    That may just have been his point...
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT Someone here mentioned a great quote that I can't find - it was along the lines of I can inform you, not make you understand

    Who said it?
  • SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    @Isam


    Will the people I meet be put off by some thinking them, "misogynist, homophobic, racists"? I doubt it very much. They are more likely to see the people who are doing the labelling as belonging to the the class that pissed them off in the first place.

    As we see regularly its the people you will be voting for, crass ignorant and bigoted, that attract the attention. Its not invented - its reporting the facts. When you think there is nothing that could top it along comes something else thats 'jaw dropping'.
    But the political class which you wish us to keep voting for is so much worse.

    Peter Morrison and Cyril Smith raped boys. Chris Huhne was jailed for perverting the course of justice. Lords Taylor and Hanningfield were jailed for fiddling their expenses, along with four Labour MP's. Lord Watson set fire to a hotel, when drunk. Mike Hancock sexually harassed a mentally handicapped constituent. Councillors in Rotherham ignored child rape. The list of scandals in the "mainstream" is ever-lengthening.

    But, you think referring to "ting tong" is so much worse.
    It's almost as if you've forgotten UKIP MEPs being inprisoned or one UKIP constituency chairman being jailed for grooming kids.

    UKIP are in the same class
    No, they're not. UKIP are not from professional political backgrounds, by definition.

    UKIP have more oddball candidates for that reason, but they are not elitist pols like most mainstream LibLabCon leaders.
    You mean Farage who has spent 20 years trying to be an MP and for the last fifteen years has been an MEP isn't a professional politician.

    Yeah right.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    @Isam


    Will the people I meet be put off by some thinking them, "misogynist, homophobic, racists"? I doubt it very much. They are more likely to see the people who are doing the labelling as belonging to the the class that pissed them off in the first place.

    As we see regularly its the people you will be voting for, crass ignorant and bigoted, that attract the attention. Its not invented - its reporting the facts. When you think there is nothing that could top it along comes something else thats 'jaw dropping'.
    In May the bloke I will be voting for is ex-RN, long service, lower-deck on submarines. I have had tea with him and his wife and found them very nice people. He is not crass, ignorant and bigoted.

    Nevermind, you just keep chucking the labels around, old boy. It probably makes you feel better and it stops you having to think about why the Conservative party is doing so damn badly.
    I have no doubt that you, your wife, the candidate and his wife are all decent folk.

    But you do run with some rum coves.

    (of course, wanting to be an MP should be a key determinant of whether someone should be disbarred from seeking elected office, but that's another matter entirely)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,536

    Mr. Flightpath, such terms have been used to control debate and demonise opponents for so long the vocabulary of accusations of bigotry has largely lost its bite (the boy who cried wolf, if you will).

    We had it when claims of Asian rape gangs in Rotherham were first made, we had it when the UKIP was accused of 'euracism' and we had it whenever the Conservatives tried to point out endless immigration might not be a good thing.

    It's been overused and diluted to the point where such accusations are, I would suggest, likelier to piss people off with the accuser than the accused.

    Who is crying wolf?
    The BBC say ''Rozanne Duncan is understood to have used highly racially offensive language during filming for a BBC documentary to be broadcast in February.''
    I'm pleased that UKIP have expelled her. But really what they would have preferred was she had kept her opinions to herself. This is what they have told their candidates. Buit she is the sort of person UKIP is attracting and UKIP and Farage have gone out of their way to talk their language.
    I'm glad this woman and various other bigots have upped and left the tory party, because times have moved on. If there are any left then they can shove off too for me; I hope there are not any. The problems of immigration can do without a racist solution.
    Sadly Farage weasels every way to stick up for the likes of Kerry Smith. He toils to make racism respectable. It stinks.
    People like you are why the Conservative Party may well lose to a complete joke like Ed Milliband.

    You alienate your natural supporters and then wonder why they won't vote for you.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Plato said:

    OT Someone here mentioned a great quote that I can't find - it was along the lines of I can inform you, not make you understand

    Who said it?

    "You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink" ???
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited December 2014
    Well quite.

    I like Ian Somerhalder - he is sex on legs and isn't a tiny bit bothered about going for a scene. In Tell Me You Love Me he's erm up for it.imdb.com/name/nm0813812/?ref_=nmmi_mi_nm The most convincing on-screen kisser I've ever seen.

    And Matthew McConahey imdb.com/name/nm0000190/ - he's so cool/gunslinger. I went out with a chap like that and was tongue-tied the whole time.
    Cyclefree said:

    I simply do not understand this obsession with Benedict Cumberbatch. He looks weird and is not in the least bit handsome and his acting - what I have seen of it - is mannered.

    He has all the sex appeal of a pint of milk.

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Smarmeron said:

    Joe Cocker RIP

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRzKUVjHkGk


    Tweet from

    Iain Duncan Smith MP ‏@IDS_MP 9m9 minutes ago
    RIP Joe Cocker. Adored ‘Common People.’ (the song, not actual common people) pic.twitter.com/MFTkDPl4oM

    Comments which follow it are a hoot.
This discussion has been closed.