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  • Is there such a thing as an ugly violinist?
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689

    Is there such a thing as an ugly violinist?

    Nigel kennedy...call me strange but he doesn't float my boat personally
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited December 2014
    I am going into my crystal ball and will tell you what with be top of the running order tomorrow on BBC News...

    First up, Police Chief says Tory cuts will endanger everybody. After that, BBC says they have got it "about right" in regards to Mantel book at bed, and Mantel will be given free ride to go mental about the Daily Mail.
  • isam said:

    AndyJS said:

    Breaking news — Kerry Smith has resigned as UKIP candidate for Basildon South & Thurrock East.

    "During the recorded conversation, Mr Smith talks about UKIP's lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) group and he can be heard jokingly referring to it as BLT UKIP, and adds "what the old poofter groups call themselves".

    He jokes about "shooting peasants" from the Essex town of Chigwell and supporting "a peasant's hunt through Chigwell village"."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30467897

    Paging Isam, paging Isam....

    Ever backed a 20/1 shot that's now 5/2 and wish you hadn't had the bet?
    I once had 100ew at 25/1 on a horse called Special Envoy which was winning by a rapidly increasing 10 lengths when it clipped the top of the last hurdle at Aintree. It was trading at 1.04 when it hit the ground.

    Not quite the same, but close.

    I take it your will be posting your cv in the morning.
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    At the same time, we still haven't had any convictions for FGM. Nice to know our leaders have got their priorities right.

    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    It's the difference between liberalism and libertarianism. Liberalism praises liberty and thinks we should take steps to improve it, after considering other effects. Libertarianism is a extremist philosophy that believes the only source impeding liberty is the government, and thus wants to restrict government as much as possible, whatever the consequences.
    Yes. It's a mistaken concept of freedom. The denizens of Hogarth's Gin Lane were exercising their personal freedom of action, but were not free in any meaningful sense. Today, Habeus Corpus and God knows what else of our fundamental constitutional rights are being swept away before our eyes, but even on this site, people are more exercised by these porn restrictions.


    It may seem trivial, but when a new law potentially makes, say, 10-20 million citizens into criminals overnight then it is the law which suffers, just as much as the citizen.

    That's bad for everyone.

    I will be spanking my policewoman GF tomorrow night, just as a protest. We must all do our bit.
    Quite. It's perfectly acceptable to unilaterally mutilate a 2 year old girl's genitals if it is "culturally appropriate" - we will never prosecute, ever - but woe betide you if you film yourself spanking your 50 year old Lancastrian wife such that she might be bruised overnight. Prison beckons.

    The perversity and deviance is plain to see, and it does not attach to the spankers.

    Britain is a deeply silly country. It used to be amusingly silly, but now it becoming rather sad in its idiocy. Ageing and demented.
    Britain is still amusingly silly it is merely our "betters" who think they know best that drag us down

  • Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    It's the difference between liberalism and libertarianism. Liberalism praises liberty and thinks we should take steps to improve it, after considering other effects. Libertarianism is a extremist philosophy that believes the only source impeding liberty is the government, and thus wants to restrict government as much as possible, whatever the consequences.
    Simply not true. Libertarianism is not extreme and does not believe that the only source impeding liberty is the government. Both those contentions are absolutely false.

    Libertarianism views the State as one amongst a number of institutions which have the potential to impede the freedom of the individual. It does not claim that their should be no government, merely that the powers of the State should be curtailed as much as possible whilst still allowing it to carry out certain important basic functions. It is the crucial difference between Libertarianism and Anarchism.

    Liberalism believes that the State can be a source of liberty, Libertarianism believes that the State is nothing more than a tool of very limited use which should always be kept in check otherwise it will continue to grow and increase its power - something I find it hard to believe that anyone could logically disagree with.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    ZenPagan said:

    SeanT said:

    isam said:


    Personally, and since it is one of the subjects used to attack UKIP so regularly, I was sorry they asked no questions about attitudes to sexuality. Maybe the organisation is worried about what the response would be - either too pro-homosexuality for them in which case they would have to consider changing policy or too anti-homosexuality in which case the results would embarrass them. Either way it was rather an obvious omission given the range of subjects they otherwise ask opinion on.

    Consider changing which policy?
    ...

    For all that I support UKIP on many - if not most - issues, I have been disappointed by their attitude to sexual freedom and equality.
    i want to see the UKIP policy on SPANKING. Also FACE SITTING, CANING, BONDAGE, and SQUIRTING.

    Can you elucidate?

    I am entirely serious. It would be nice if one serious political party had the cullions to call the New Porn Laws for what they are: utterly ridiculous.


    I think UKIP would be opposed to ostentatious spanking.

    These laws by your standards have been 'ridiculous' for quite some time and have been governed as such by the BBFC.
    What individuals do in private is their business, but what people transmit as business is subject to classification. Its not new. it may be right nor wrong, interesting or worthless, but its not new and as such electronic media classification of it is hardly surprising.
    As usual you are talking bollocks. These inane laws do not affect transmission at all. People can watch all the spanking and squirting they want at any time they want. All these laws do is criminalise our own porn industry and put them at a disadvantage compared to their continental counterparts who are still free to film the face sitting and transmit it to us to their hearts content. The only people this will in fact affect is our tax payers when all our porn companies move abroad and those who will be criminalised when they are found to have filmed themselves in the bedroom for their own viewing pleasure.

    little laws made by little men and women of a puritan bent

    By all means get tourself excited about it. Video on Demand ie something you actually pay for, must fall in line with what's available on DVD. There are argumants to abolish censorship. Go ahead and make them. I do not see much argument in a common application of rules.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2014

    AndyJS said:

    Breaking news — Kerry Smith has resigned as UKIP candidate for Basildon South & Thurrock East.

    "During the recorded conversation, Mr Smith talks about UKIP's lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) group and he can be heard jokingly referring to it as BLT UKIP, and adds "what the old poofter groups call themselves".

    He jokes about "shooting peasants" from the Essex town of Chigwell and supporting "a peasant's hunt through Chigwell village"."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30467897

    Oh dear, the 'Good honest local bigot' has gone. Shame.

    Still, I'm sure he was the only rotten apple in the Kipper barrel.
    Just to be clear, although probably washing my time, I said 'good honest local lad' precisely because I knew he had been kicked out in the first place for being a wrong un... Ie I was mucking about, speaking tongue in cheek

    I posted that this would happen at the time, before he was deselected in October. Intrepid hunters of my posts won't find it hard to discover

    @seanfear will be able to verify this too

    Sorry to spoil the meme
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Bugger.
    AndyJS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    Tell that to our Dear Leaders.

    Their banning of spanking is one of the most cretinous things they've done recently, and I'm not even a fan of it.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    It's the difference between liberalism and libertarianism. Liberalism praises liberty and thinks we should take steps to improve it, after considering other effects. Libertarianism is a extremist philosophy that believes the only source impeding liberty is the government, and thus wants to restrict government as much as possible, whatever the consequences.
    Yes. It's a mistaken concept of freedom. The denizens of Hogarth's Gin Lane were exercising their personal freedom of action, but were not free in any meaningful sense. Today, Habeus Corpus and God knows what else of our fundamental constitutional rights are being swept away before our eyes, but even on this site, people are more exercised by these porn restrictions.
    I think there is a very high degree of overlap between those who oppose the extension of the porn laws, those who wish the right to silence should have been preserved, those who oppose US torture of terrorist suspects, and those who oppose detention without trial.
    Indeed.
  • Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    It's the difference between liberalism and libertarianism. Liberalism praises liberty and thinks we should take steps to improve it, after considering other effects. Libertarianism is a extremist philosophy that believes the only source impeding liberty is the government, and thus wants to restrict government as much as possible, whatever the consequences.
    Simply not true. Libertarianism is not extreme and does not believe that the only source impeding liberty is the government. Both those contentions are absolutely false.

    Libertarianism views the State as one amongst a number of institutions which have the potential to impede the freedom of the individual. It does not claim that their should be no government, merely that the powers of the State should be curtailed as much as possible whilst still allowing it to carry out certain important basic functions. It is the crucial difference between Libertarianism and Anarchism.

    Liberalism believes that the State can be a source of liberty, Libertarianism believes that the State is nothing more than a tool of very limited use which should always be kept in check otherwise it will continue to grow and increase its power - something I find it hard to believe that anyone could logically disagree with.
    The state should exist to protect our rights to life, liberty and property.

  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689

    ZenPagan said:

    SeanT said:

    isam said:


    Personally, and since it is one of the subjects used to attack UKIP so regularly, I was sorry they asked no questions about attitudes to sexuality. Maybe the organisation is worried about what the response would be - either too pro-homosexuality for them in which case they would have to consider changing policy or too anti-homosexuality in which case the results would embarrass them. Either way it was rather an obvious omission given the range of subjects they otherwise ask opinion on.

    Consider changing which policy?
    ...

    For all that I support UKIP on many - if not most - issues, I have been disappointed by their attitude to sexual freedom and equality.
    i want to see the UKIP policy on SPANKING. Also FACE SITTING, CANING, BONDAGE, and SQUIRTING.

    Can you elucidate?

    I am entirely serious. It would be nice if one serious political party had the cullions to call the New Porn Laws for what they are: utterly ridiculous.




    As usual you are talking bollocks. These inane laws do not affect transmission at all. People can watch all the spanking and squirting they want at any time they want. All these laws do is criminalise our own porn industry and put them at a disadvantage compared to their continental counterparts who are still free to film the face sitting and transmit it to us to their hearts content. The only people this will in fact affect is our tax payers when all our porn companies move abroad and those who will be criminalised when they are found to have filmed themselves in the bedroom for their own viewing pleasure.

    little laws made by little men and women of a puritan bent

    By all means get tourself excited about it. Video on Demand ie something you actually pay for, must fall in line with what's available on DVD. There are argumants to abolish censorship. Go ahead and make them. I do not see much argument in a common application of rules.
    Go here www,youporn.com....

    You will find spanking , squirting, fisting , face sitting etc freely available for no money whatsoever. Your parties new laws will make no difference to that availablility.

    All you have done is crippled our own porn producers and criminalised those who like to make selfie video's for their own consumption. Congratulation to the party you support on managing to even outdo new labour on stupidity
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    ZenPagan said:

    ZenPagan said:

    SeanT said:

    isam said:


    Personally, and since it is one of the subjects used to attack UKIP so regularly, I was sorry they asked no questions about attitudes to sexuality. Maybe the organisation is worried about what the response would be - either too pro-homosexuality for them in which case they would have to consider changing policy or too anti-homosexuality in which case the results would embarrass them. Either way it was rather an obvious omission given the range of subjects they otherwise ask opinion on.

    Consider changing which policy?
    ...

    For all that I support UKIP on many - if not most - issues, I have been disappointed by their attitude to sexual freedom and equality.
    i want to see the UKIP policy on SPANKING. Also FACE SITTING, CANING, BONDAGE, and SQUIRTING.

    Can you elucidate?

    I am entirely serious. It would be nice if one serious political party had the cullions to call the New Porn Laws for what they are: utterly ridiculous.




    As usual you are talking bollocks. These inane laws do not affect transmission at all. People can watch all the spanking and squirting they want at any time they want. All these laws do is criminalise our own porn industry and put them at a disadvantage compared to their continental counterparts who are still free to film the face sitting and transmit it to us to their hearts content. The only people this will in fact affect is our tax payers when all our porn companies move abroad and those who will be criminalised when they are found to have filmed themselves in the bedroom for their own viewing pleasure.

    little laws made by little men and women of a puritan bent

    By all means get tourself excited about it. Video on Demand ie something you actually pay for, must fall in line with what's available on DVD. There are argumants to abolish censorship. Go ahead and make them. I do not see much argument in a common application of rules.
    Go here www,youporn.com....

    You will find spanking , squirting, fisting , face sitting etc freely available for no money whatsoever. Your parties new laws will make no difference to that availablility.

    All you have done is crippled our own porn producers and criminalised those who like to make selfie video's for their own consumption. Congratulation to the party you support on managing to even outdo new labour on stupidity
    sorry should mention that link is definitely NSFW


  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2014

    isam said:

    AndyJS said:

    Breaking news — Kerry Smith has resigned as UKIP candidate for Basildon South & Thurrock East.

    "During the recorded conversation, Mr Smith talks about UKIP's lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) group and he can be heard jokingly referring to it as BLT UKIP, and adds "what the old poofter groups call themselves".

    He jokes about "shooting peasants" from the Essex town of Chigwell and supporting "a peasant's hunt through Chigwell village"."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30467897

    Paging Isam, paging Isam....

    Ever backed a 20/1 shot that's now 5/2 and wish you hadn't had the bet?
    I once had 100ew at 25/1 on a horse called Special Envoy which was winning by a rapidly increasing 10 lengths when it clipped the top of the last hurdle at Aintree. It was trading at 1.04 when it hit the ground.

    Not quite the same, but close.

    I take it your will be posting your cv in the morning.
    Oh I could play go hard luck story top trumps all day long believe me. I can get anything beat

    Hmmm well I think id be better than alas Smith and Bolter!
  • I hope you all followed me on backing Lewis Hamilton as SPOTY.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    AndyJS said:

    Breaking news — Kerry Smith has resigned as UKIP candidate for Basildon South & Thurrock East.

    "During the recorded conversation, Mr Smith talks about UKIP's lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) group and he can be heard jokingly referring to it as BLT UKIP, and adds "what the old poofter groups call themselves".

    He jokes about "shooting peasants" from the Essex town of Chigwell and supporting "a peasant's hunt through Chigwell village"."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30467897

    Good! He's done the decent thing and fallen on his sword: better late than never.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Ben Clerkin (@benclerkin)
    14/12/2014 22:06
    Labour MPs told not to campaign on immigration in secret Ukip strategy document fw.to/0ayci0g

    Ben Clerkin (@benclerkin)
    14/12/2014 22:20
    Key points from Labour’s secret Ukip strategy: don't campaign on immigration and change the subject if it comes up fw.to/wka2vuT
  • Labour MPs have been secretly ordered not to campaign on immigration because doing so could cost them the next election, the Daily Telegraph can reveal.

    A private strategy document circulated by Labour HQ and seen by this newspaper warns that the bigger immigration becomes as a campaign issue the more votes the party will lose.

    MPs are told to focus on "moving the conversation on" if voters express concerns about border controls to topics Labour is stronger on such as healthcare or housing.

    They are also urged not to send leaflets on immigration to all voters because it could be "unhelpful" and "risks undermining the broad coalition of support we need to return to government".

    The revelations are a major embarrassment for Ed Miliband, who is expected tell voters Labour understands their immigration concerns and harden the party's stance on cheap foreign workers in a major speech on Monday.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11293433/Revealed-Labour-MPs-told-not-to-campaign-on-immigration-in-secret-Ukip-strategy-document.html
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376

    AndyJS said:

    Breaking news — Kerry Smith has resigned as UKIP candidate for Basildon South & Thurrock East.

    "During the recorded conversation, Mr Smith talks about UKIP's lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) group and he can be heard jokingly referring to it as BLT UKIP, and adds "what the old poofter groups call themselves".

    He jokes about "shooting peasants" from the Essex town of Chigwell and supporting "a peasant's hunt through Chigwell village"."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30467897

    Oh dear, the 'Good honest local bigot' has gone. Shame.

    Still, I'm sure he was the only rotten apple in the Kipper barrel.
    Leaving the way open for another rotten apple to return, Neil Hamilton.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    Ugh, love Lewis but wrong result. He won a 2 man competition vs someone dominating a sport played by millions.
  • Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    It's the difference between liberalism and libertarianism. Liberalism praises liberty and thinks we should take steps to improve it, after considering other effects. Libertarianism is a extremist philosophy that believes the only source impeding liberty is the government, and thus wants to restrict government as much as possible, whatever the consequences.
    Simply not true. Libertarianism is not extreme and does not believe that the only source impeding liberty is the government. Both those contentions are absolutely false.

    Libertarianism views the State as one amongst a number of institutions which have the potential to impede the freedom of the individual. It does not claim that their should be no government, merely that the powers of the State should be curtailed as much as possible whilst still allowing it to carry out certain important basic functions. It is the crucial difference between Libertarianism and Anarchism.

    Liberalism believes that the State can be a source of liberty, Libertarianism believes that the State is nothing more than a tool of very limited use which should always be kept in check otherwise it will continue to grow and increase its power - something I find it hard to believe that anyone could logically disagree with.
    The state should exist to protect our rights to life, liberty and property.

    Indeed but it is not, nor should it ever be, the source of those rights. Once the State starts considering itself as the source of our rights and liberties it then starts considering the possibility that it might take them away from us.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Ben Riley-Smith (@benrileysmith)
    14/12/2014 22:24
    Full 33-page document revealing Labour's secret Ukip strategy published here: bit.ly/1vPgWp3 pic.twitter.com/ijiZrz1kmn
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    They've the most fabulous parliament building. Superb views on a river boat trip.
    AndyJS said:

    antifrank said:

    In what seats apart from Thurrock, Clacton, Thanet S, Boston & Skegness are UKIP favourites in the betting?

    I can't check, because I'm on an iPad in Hungary, but I believe Great Yarmouth also.
    I was thinking of going to Budapest sometime. Haven't done any research yet.
  • maaarsh said:

    Ugh, love Lewis but wrong result. He won a 2 man competition vs someone dominating a sport played by millions.

    It proves no one gives a flying fig about his tax status.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Classic Dominic Cummings on Cameron in today's ST Atticus, he 'wouldn't look up from Country Life if he was told every state school fell into the sea - that's how interested he is in them.'
    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/comment/

    I wouldn't look up either.

    But mainly because anyone who uses such hyperbole in front of the Prime Minister is clearly non-serious and hence not worthy of the time.
    And any Prime Minister reading a magazine at work (or even at home -I can't imagine Maggie flicking through Woman's Weekly rather than the contents of red boxes), is not worthy to be PM. It's about TOILING on behalf of the nation, not farting around New York disclosing Royal phone conversations or losing your daughter in pubs.
    There we differ.

    I'd rather the PM has something of a normal life: it helps keep them a little grounded in an very cloistered environment. I'm sure Maggie did read magazines and newspapers.

    My only issue is that Country Life is deathly dull - the estate agent adverts at the front are good (and the oh-so-serious pose that the Girl in Pearls put on are always worth a giggle). But apart from that I on;y ever read Tottering-by-Gently, which has to be one of the best cartoons every developed
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Yup.
    rcs1000 said:

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    It's the difference between liberalism and libertarianism. Liberalism praises liberty and thinks we should take steps to improve it, after considering other effects. Libertarianism is a extremist philosophy that believes the only source impeding liberty is the government, and thus wants to restrict government as much as possible, whatever the consequences.
    Yes. It's a mistaken concept of freedom. The denizens of Hogarth's Gin Lane were exercising their personal freedom of action, but were not free in any meaningful sense. Today, Habeus Corpus and God knows what else of our fundamental constitutional rights are being swept away before our eyes, but even on this site, people are more exercised by these porn restrictions.
    I think there is a very high degree of overlap between those who oppose the extension of the porn laws, those who wish the right to silence should have been preserved, those who oppose US torture of terrorist suspects, and those who oppose detention without trial.
  • I hope you all followed me on backing Lewis Hamilton as SPOTY.

    And my bet on Fleur each way to win X Factor at 10/1, she was second but a profit nevertheless
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Classic Dominic Cummings on Cameron in today's ST Atticus, he 'wouldn't look up from Country Life if he was told every state school fell into the sea - that's how interested he is in them.'
    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/comment/

    I wouldn't look up either.

    But mainly because anyone who uses such hyperbole in front of the Prime Minister is clearly non-serious and hence not worthy of the time.
    And any Prime Minister reading a magazine at work (or even at home -I can't imagine Maggie flicking through Woman's Weekly rather than the contents of red boxes), is not worthy to be PM. It's about TOILING on behalf of the nation, not farting around New York disclosing Royal phone conversations or losing your daughter in pubs.
    There we differ.

    I'd rather the PM has something of a normal life: it helps keep them a little grounded in an very cloistered environment. I'm sure Maggie did read magazines and newspapers.

    My only issue is that Country Life is deathly dull - the estate agent adverts at the front are good (and the oh-so-serious pose that the Girl in Pearls put on are always worth a giggle). But apart from that I on;y ever read Tottering-by-Gently, which has to be one of the best cartoons every developed
    As an example of T-b-G humour...

    http://www.tottering.com/popup_image.php?pID=1296&image=0
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    Plato said:

    Yup.

    rcs1000 said:

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    It's the difference between liberalism and libertarianism. Liberalism praises liberty and thinks we should take steps to improve it, after considering other effects. Libertarianism is a extremist philosophy that believes the only source impeding liberty is the government, and thus wants to restrict government as much as possible, whatever the consequences.
    Yes. It's a mistaken concept of freedom. The denizens of Hogarth's Gin Lane were exercising their personal freedom of action, but were not free in any meaningful sense. Today, Habeus Corpus and God knows what else of our fundamental constitutional rights are being swept away before our eyes, but even on this site, people are more exercised by these porn restrictions.
    I think there is a very high degree of overlap between those who oppose the extension of the porn laws, those who wish the right to silence should have been preserved, those who oppose US torture of terrorist suspects, and those who oppose detention without trial.
    Every time the state passes this sort of law they are in effect saying we are children and can't be trusted to make up your own mind. Daddy Cameron or Daddy Milibrand know best. Then they wonder why we detest them

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited December 2014
    Blair been pushed under the bus by his own side...calling for him to be questioned about what he knew about US torture.

    Call me cynical, but I think it is calculated move, knowing that highly unlikely Tony will ever be forced to reveal what he remembers, and looks far better to sound tough and say how terrible, we (likes of Cooper) didn't know, but Tony might.
  • I hope you all followed me on backing Lewis Hamilton as SPOTY.

    And my bet on Fleur each way to win X Factor at 10/1, she was second but a profit nevertheless
    I stopped watching X Factor a few years ago.

    Who do you think will win Strictly, heart says Flackers, head says Frankie Bridge.
  • I've just had a thought, if the MI6 anally fed a suspected terrorist and filmed it, would it fall foul of the porn laws?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited December 2014
    MIRROR: Ed - I will ban cheap foreign workers

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B42ZbsiIcAEyadz.jpg:large

    I am gonna love to see how this policy on pack of a fag packet is going to legal, given that Ed is obviously not going to change our relationship with the EU.
  • FalseFlag said:

    SeanT said:

    FalseFlag said:
    Fecking nonsense. Of course homosexuality is partly or wholly genetic. Everything is partly or wholly genetic.

    Having read some of your recent comment, it occurs to me that you are, in fact, a cretin. Cretinism is also, I believe, heritable. So at least you know who to blame.
    Not a great riposte. Very few diseases have been found to be genetic, your genes don't set out to kill you, cancer is likely to be caused by germs.

    Try reading Plague Time: The New Germ Theory of Disease by Paul Ewald, you might learn something. Revolutionised medicine.
    We know what causes cancer. There are carcinogens present in our food, food packaging, soaps, shampoos, conditioners, moisturising creams, make up, sun block (which they advise us to slather on), deodorants, detergents, etc. There are also dangers inherent (believe it or not) in mammograms and underwired bras. Corporations and Governments prefer not to concentrate on cancer prevention -instead we get a massive and emotionally exhausting hunt for funding for a 'cure', with all its fun runs etc. I've always found this bizarre. We rip asbestos out of buildings at huge cost to remove the risk of asbestosis. But we don't even highlight the risks of Sulphates in cosmetics, or applaud products that don't use them.
    Agreed, chemicals used in all kinds of products that come into contact with living tissue can cause unexpected reactions.

    What most people do not realise is that skin is an actual organ of the body, they just treat it as something to plaster make up to attract the opposite sex or to apply soaps and deodorants to remove natural oils and smells, all without thinking of the consequences or more probably, even knowing of them.

    An extreme example is when sulphuric acid comes in contact with skin. Very painful and removes a layer of skin, quickly. Personal experience.

    However the insidious use of so called safe products can build up an intolerance over a period of time. As with acids/alkalis, it is the time against the strength which counts. Stronger/Quicker - Weaker/Longer - result, a painful death.

    Germs and genes are another subject altogether and to bring them into this discussion, is irrelevant.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Exactly. Whilst I can't imagine ever reading 50 Shades Of Gray [given it's pulp fiction reviews] - the number of copies sold is indicative, it was almost as ubiquitous as Harry Potter covertly read on the Tube.

    I genuinely can't quite believe the new porn laws are real - it's so absurd.
    ZenPagan said:

    SeanT said:

    isam said:


    snip
    Consider changing which policy?

    I phrased that badly and realised it when I read it back later. Lets just say that their public announcements have not been whole heartedly in support as I and others would like of the changes made by recent governments as far as equalising rights for gays goes. It would be nice to see the party fully support and endorse equal marriage rights (as an example) rather than begrudgingly accept they are here to stay.

    For all that I support UKIP on many - if not most - issues, I have been disappointed by their attitude to sexual freedom and equality.
    i want to see the UKIP policy on SPANKING. Also FACE SITTING, CANING, BONDAGE, and SQUIRTING.

    Can you elucidate?

    I am entirely serious. It would be nice if one serious political party had the cullions to call the New Porn Laws for what they are: utterly ridiculous.


    I think UKIP would be opposed to ostentatious spanking.

    These laws by your standards have been 'ridiculous' for quite some time and have been governed as such by the BBFC.
    What individuals do in private is their business, but what people transmit as business is subject to classification. Its not new. it may be right nor wrong, interesting or worthless, but its not new and as such electronic media classification of it is hardly surprising.
    As usual you are talking bollocks. These inane laws do not affect transmission at all. People can watch all the spanking and squirting they want at any time they want. All these laws do is criminalise our own porn industry and put them at a disadvantage compared to their continental counterparts who are still free to film the face sitting and transmit it to us to their hearts content. The only people this will in fact affect is our tax payers when all our porn companies move abroad and those who will be criminalised when they are found to have filmed themselves in the bedroom for their own viewing pleasure.

    little laws made by little men and women of a puritan bent

  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689

    I've just had a thought, if the MI6 anally fed a suspected terrorist and filmed it, would it fall foul of the porn laws?

    No it wouldn't because MI6 theoretically operates abroad only and therefore it would be produced outside the uk

  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    Plato said:

    Exactly. Whilst I can't imagine ever reading 50 Shades Of Gray [given it's pulp fiction reviews] - the number of copies sold is indicative, it was almost as ubiquitous as Harry Potter covertly read on the Tube.

    I genuinely can't quite believe the new porn laws are real - it's so absurd.

    ZenPagan said:

    SeanT said:

    isam said:


    snip
    Consider changing which policy?

    I phrased that badly and realised it when I read it back later. Lets just say that their public announcements have not been whole heartedly in support as I and others would like of the changes made by recent governments as far as equalising rights for gays goes. It would be nice to see the party fully support and endorse equal marriage rights (as an example) rather than begrudgingly accept they are here to stay.

    For all that I support UKIP on many - if not most - issues, I have been disappointed by their attitude to sexual freedom and equality.
    i want to see the UKIP policy on SPANKING. Also FACE SITTING, CANING, BONDAGE, and SQUIRTING.

    Can you elucidate?

    I am entirely serious. It would be nice if one serious political party had the cullions to call the New Porn Laws for what they are: utterly ridiculous.


    I think UKIP would be opposed to ostentatious spanking.

    These laws by your standards have been 'ridiculous' for quite some time and have been governed as such by the BBFC.
    What individuals do in private is their business, but what people transmit as business is subject to classification. Its not new. it may be right nor wrong, interesting or worthless, but its not new and as such electronic media classification of it is hardly surprising.
    As usual you are talking bollocks. These inane laws do not affect transmission at all. People can watch all the spanking and squirting they want at any time they want. All these laws do is criminalise our own porn industry and put them at a disadvantage compared to their continental counterparts who are still free to film the face sitting and transmit it to us to their hearts content. The only people this will in fact affect is our tax payers when all our porn companies move abroad and those who will be criminalised when they are found to have filmed themselves in the bedroom for their own viewing pleasure.

    little laws made by little men and women of a puritan bent

    It had a large female audience it has to be said

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FalseFlag said:

    SeanT said:

    re FPT and the debate on homosexuality: gayness is indeed clearly if partly genetic, inasmuch as it is evidenced throughout the animal kingdom, from seagulls to spiders to reindeer to robins. It is difficult to see how spider mothers could be so eerily caring they turn their sons into "queers", ergo it is impossible to conceive an entirely environmental explanation for homosex.

    There is also an ev-psych explanation for the tenacity of human homosexuality: it is possible that gay sons benefit the human species by providing non sexually competitive males - Uncle Montys - who selflessly look after their nephews and nieces, as the best way of ensuring their own "genetic survival" .

    I've personally witnessed this. Gay uncles can be incredibly caring for the offspring of their siblings.

    Highly unlikely to be genetic.

    http://jaymans.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/greg-cochrans-gay-germ-hypothesis-an-exercise-in-the-power-of-germs/
    I think you are putting to much emphasis on a minority hypothesis
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    LOL
    Moses_ said:

    As an aside when being arrested for engaging in bondage no doubt the perpetrator will be placed in handcuffs? .... Oh ! ..Wait a minute I think I see a slight problem.

  • ZenPagan said:

    I've just had a thought, if the MI6 anally fed a suspected terrorist and filmed it, would it fall foul of the porn laws?

    No it wouldn't because MI6 theoretically operates abroad only and therefore it would be produced outside the uk

    I still think the detainee should file a complaint to the police to see how the legal arguments played out.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Nigel Kennedy and his faux accent springs to mind.

    Is there such a thing as an ugly violinist?

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    I hope you all followed me on backing Lewis Hamilton as SPOTY.

    And my bet on Fleur each way to win X Factor at 10/1, she was second but a profit nevertheless
    Was there an opinion poll that said fleur was going to do well or did you use your own nous?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    AndyJS said:

    Breaking news — Kerry Smith has resigned as UKIP candidate for Basildon South & Thurrock East.

    "During the recorded conversation, Mr Smith talks about UKIP's lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) group and he can be heard jokingly referring to it as BLT UKIP, and adds "what the old poofter groups call themselves".

    He jokes about "shooting peasants" from the Essex town of Chigwell and supporting "a peasant's hunt through Chigwell village"."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30467897

    Oh dear, the 'Good honest local bigot' has gone. Shame.

    Still, I'm sure he was the only rotten apple in the Kipper barrel.
    Still he was around for peak Kipper.

    Hubris came.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    It's the difference between liberalism and libertarianism. Liberalism praises liberty and thinks we should take steps to improve it, after considering other effects. Libertarianism is a extremist philosophy that believes the only source impeding liberty is the government, and thus wants to restrict government as much as possible, whatever the consequences.
    Yes. It's a mistaken concept of freedom. The denizens of Hogarth's Gin Lane were exercising their personal freedom of action, but were not free in any meaningful sense. Today, Habeus Corpus and God knows what else of our fundamental constitutional rights are being swept away before our eyes, but even on this site, people are more exercised by these porn restrictions.
    Quite apart from their intrinsic, creepy, puritanical absurdity, the Porn Laws are important because they threaten to criminalise a very large minority of the population.

    Lawyers and coppers I have spoken to believe that these laws will, in effect, make it illegal not just to produce images of bondage and spanking in the UK but also to "consume" them in the UK - i.e. to watch them online.

    Given that, according to surveys, 30-60% of British adults have sexual fantasies about bondage and spanking (etc), and given that many of them will therefore have sought images of the same, online, then it is reasonable to assume millions of Brits will be criminalised by these ridiculous laws.

    It may seem trivial, but when a new law potentially makes, say, 10-20 million citizens into criminals overnight then it is the law which suffers, just as much as the citizen.

    That's bad for everyone.

    I will be spanking my policewoman GF tomorrow night, just as a protest. We must all do our bit.
    I presume it is only a matter of time before writing in explicit detail about such activities becomes illegal too. This should be of extreme concern to anyone previously only worried about getting a Bad Sex Award....
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Indeed.

    I am going into my crystal ball and will tell you what with be top of the running order tomorrow on BBC News...

    First up, Police Chief says Tory cuts will endanger everybody. After that, BBC says they have got it "about right" in regards to Mantel book at bed, and Mantel will be given free ride to go mental about the Daily Mail.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FalseFlag said:

    SeanT said:

    FalseFlag said:

    SeanT said:

    re FPT and the debate on homosexuality: gayness is indeed clearly if partly genetic, inasmuch as it is evidenced throughout the animal kingdom, from seagulls to spiders to reindeer to robins. It is difficult to see how spider mothers could be so eerily caring they turn their sons into "queers", ergo it is impossible to conceive an entirely environmental explanation for homosex.

    There is also an ev-psych explanation for the tenacity of human homosexuality: it is possible that gay sons benefit the human species by providing non sexually competitive males - Uncle Montys - who selflessly look after their nephews and nieces, as the best way of ensuring their own "genetic survival" .

    I've personally witnessed this. Gay uncles can be incredibly caring for the offspring of their siblings.

    Highly unlikely to be genetic.

    http://jaymans.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/greg-cochrans-gay-germ-hypothesis-an-exercise-in-the-power-of-germs/
    Fecking nonsense. Of course homosexuality is partly or wholly genetic. Everything is partly or wholly genetic.

    Having read some of your recent comment, it occurs to me that you are, in fact, a cretin. Cretinism is also, I believe, heritable. So at least you know who to blame.
    Not a great riposte. Very few diseases have been found to be genetic, your genes don't set out to kill you, cancer is likely to be caused by germs.

    Try reading Plague Time: The New Germ Theory of Disease by Paul Ewald, you might learn something. Revolutionised medicine.
    That's bollocks.

    There are a huge number of diseases with a genetic component, including lyposomal, autoimmume, onco-immuno and certain neurodegenerative diseases. Most work in the orphan space looks at hereditable disease elements as well.

    It's really only infectious disease - be they bacterial, fungal, parasitical or viral - that have a direct external causitive agent, although many others have a environmental component that triggers a latent condition.

  • I hope you all followed me on backing Lewis Hamilton as SPOTY.

    And my bet on Fleur each way to win X Factor at 10/1, she was second but a profit nevertheless
    I stopped watching X Factor a few years ago.

    Who do you think will win Strictly, heart says Flackers, head says Frankie Bridge.
    I can't stand X Factor but my wife watches it so thought I might make a few quid, think Fleur will join a long line of people that finished second but went on to stardom.

    No idea about Strictly, my eldest granddaughter is a dead ringer for Frankie, my youngest daughter knows Mark Wright and says he is every bit as nice as it seems, a talented lad from a talented family.

    Caroline looks beautiful in some photos and like a tranny in others, hopefully the best contestant will win.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Great summary. Confusing Liberals with Libertarians is a mistake made on here a lot.

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    It's the difference between liberalism and libertarianism. Liberalism praises liberty and thinks we should take steps to improve it, after considering other effects. Libertarianism is a extremist philosophy that believes the only source impeding liberty is the government, and thus wants to restrict government as much as possible, whatever the consequences.
    Simply not true. Libertarianism is not extreme and does not believe that the only source impeding liberty is the government. Both those contentions are absolutely false.

    Libertarianism views the State as one amongst a number of institutions which have the potential to impede the freedom of the individual. It does not claim that their should be no government, merely that the powers of the State should be curtailed as much as possible whilst still allowing it to carry out certain important basic functions. It is the crucial difference between Libertarianism and Anarchism.

    Liberalism believes that the State can be a source of liberty, Libertarianism believes that the State is nothing more than a tool of very limited use which should always be kept in check otherwise it will continue to grow and increase its power - something I find it hard to believe that anyone could logically disagree with.
  • Which Labour voters are most likely to back Ukip? Working-class Yorkshiremen who don't have degrees, says Party HQ.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B42Zb4MIQAAs9Sh.jpg
  • isam said:

    I hope you all followed me on backing Lewis Hamilton as SPOTY.

    And my bet on Fleur each way to win X Factor at 10/1, she was second but a profit nevertheless
    Was there an opinion poll that said fleur was going to do well or did you use your own nous?
    Irony alert!

    Own nous, I seem to be half decent at this reality show rubbish.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Classic Dominic Cummings on Cameron in today's ST Atticus, he 'wouldn't look up from Country Life if he was told every state school fell into the sea - that's how interested he is in them.'
    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/comment/

    I wouldn't look up either.

    But mainly because anyone who uses such hyperbole in front of the Prime Minister is clearly non-serious and hence not worthy of the time.
    And any Prime Minister reading a magazine at work (or even at home -I can't imagine Maggie flicking through Woman's Weekly rather than the contents of red boxes), is not worthy to be PM. It's about TOILING on behalf of the nation, not farting around New York disclosing Royal phone conversations or losing your daughter in pubs.
    There we differ.

    I'd rather the PM has something of a normal life: it helps keep them a little grounded in an very cloistered environment. I'm sure Maggie did read magazines and newspapers.

    My only issue is that Country Life is deathly dull - the estate agent adverts at the front are good (and the oh-so-serious pose that the Girl in Pearls put on are always worth a giggle). But apart from that I on;y ever read Tottering-by-Gently, which has to be one of the best cartoons every developed
    It is indeed absurd that we get this moaning about the 'westminster bubble' and then we get comments which say politicians should not even read a magazine or anything other than Red Boxes when they are at home.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Ha!
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Classic Dominic Cummings on Cameron in today's ST Atticus, he 'wouldn't look up from Country Life if he was told every state school fell into the sea - that's how interested he is in them.'
    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/comment/

    I wouldn't look up either.

    But mainly because anyone who uses such hyperbole in front of the Prime Minister is clearly non-serious and hence not worthy of the time.
    And any Prime Minister reading a magazine at work (or even at home -I can't imagine Maggie flicking through Woman's Weekly rather than the contents of red boxes), is not worthy to be PM. It's about TOILING on behalf of the nation, not farting around New York disclosing Royal phone conversations or losing your daughter in pubs.
    There we differ.

    I'd rather the PM has something of a normal life: it helps keep them a little grounded in an very cloistered environment. I'm sure Maggie did read magazines and newspapers.

    My only issue is that Country Life is deathly dull - the estate agent adverts at the front are good (and the oh-so-serious pose that the Girl in Pearls put on are always worth a giggle). But apart from that I on;y ever read Tottering-by-Gently, which has to be one of the best cartoons every developed
    As an example of T-b-G humour...

    http://www.tottering.com/popup_image.php?pID=1296&image=0
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    Plato said:

    Great summary. Confusing Liberals with Libertarians is a mistake made on here a lot.

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    It's the difference between liberalism and libertarianism. Liberalism praises liberty and thinks we should take steps to improve it, after considering other effects. Libertarianism is a extremist philosophy that believes the only source impeding liberty is the government, and thus wants to restrict government as much as possible, whatever the consequences.
    Simply not true. Libertarianism is not extreme and does not believe that the only source impeding liberty is the government. Both those contentions are absolutely false.

    Libertarianism views the State as one amongst a number of institutions which have the potential to impede the freedom of the individual. It does not claim that their should be no government, merely that the powers of the State should be curtailed as much as possible whilst still allowing it to carry out certain important basic functions. It is the crucial difference between Libertarianism and Anarchism.

    Liberalism believes that the State can be a source of liberty, Libertarianism believes that the State is nothing more than a tool of very limited use which should always be kept in check otherwise it will continue to grow and increase its power - something I find it hard to believe that anyone could logically disagree with.
    There once was a libertarian party in the uk under the leadership of Chris Mounsie from Devil's kitchen unfortunately subverted by a clique led by andrew withers who I always saw as a wrong one. Only political party I ever joined till andrew withers took over



  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567
    Final canvassing anecdote of the year from me:

    Elderly gentleman: Yes?
    Me: Sorry to bother you! I'll be the Labour candidate in next...
    Elderly gentleman: You can stop right there. I have not voted Labour since that fellow Attlee got us in a mess.

    That's an impressively long time to bear a grudge. He shut the door before I could find out what Clement had done wrong.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937

    MIRROR: Ed - I will ban cheap foreign workers

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B42ZbsiIcAEyadz.jpg:large

    I am gonna love to see how this policy on pack of a fag packet is going to legal, given that Ed is obviously not going to change our relationship with the EU.

    The Govt. will subsidise them to the tune of fifty quid an hour, thereby making them all expensive foreign workers. Simples.

    The money for this will come from a levy on the bankers' bonuses......
  • There's a lot of info and data here leaked to the telegraph about Labour's strategy next year, in relation to UKIP.

    I think Labour are worried about losing their heartlands to UKIP

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03138/CampaigningAgainst_3138005a.pdf
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FalseFlag said:

    Ewald observed, though, "If one identical twin gets breast cancer, the other's likelihood of contracting it is only around 10% to 20%. This suggests that genes are not the whole story."

    Against that, if you look at the work that DeCode did in Iceland, comparing the national genetic database to the family rolls, it appears that something like 90% of Icelandii with breast cancer descended from the same monk. Which suggests a genetic component.

    Similarly, the fact that expression of the Her2 gene is critical in determining whether certain cancer drugs will work, while presence of a mutated Th2 gene indicates whether CRTh2 antagonists will be effective in the treatment of astham...

    well, I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2014

    isam said:

    I hope you all followed me on backing Lewis Hamilton as SPOTY.

    And my bet on Fleur each way to win X Factor at 10/1, she was second but a profit nevertheless
    Was there an opinion poll that said fleur was going to do well or did you use your own nous?
    Irony alert!

    Own nous, I seem to be half decent at this reality show rubbish.
    Haha well done... Last winner I backed on that was the girl who sang hallelujah!
  • rcs1000 said:

    ...reply to my query re: oil price/GDP model...

    Thank you for the reply. Fascinating stuff!



    Re: the debate earlier tonight regarding the aetiology of cancer plus the arguments regarding genetics generally, I may be able to shed a little light on this:

    Essentially, genetic theory suggests that the primary purpose of a gene is to ensure its ongoing existence. "Purpose" is the wrong word; genes lack sentience, directed goals, and moral compasses. They're a product of a chemical reaction in the distant past that just happened to create something that creates things that replicate itself. Organic Von Neumann machines.

    As chromosomes become more complex, more complex ways to ensure propagation become possible. For example, more content may be passed on on a population level if genes "accept" that they won't pass on 100%, 100% of the time, but only a significant percentage. This is one underlying basis for some evolutionary arguments re: extended families, social structures, altruism, homosexuality, mood, and other things that seem superficially contradictory to propagation. Finally, remember that as long as propagation occurs before death, the genetic impact of a "flaw" (by human standards e.g. hastening death in later life) is greatly diminished.

    The more we learn about behaviour - and disease, to mesh with the cancer aspect of the discussion - the more causes appear to be multifactorial, with genetics being a contributory component, but with contributions from the environment (organic, inorganic, and psychosocial) also playing a role through a variety of mechanisms. A few easy things can be slotted into 100% genetic or 100% environmental, but frankly, not many. They're stuff we figured out pretty quickly.

    Cancer (an umbrella term covering a multitude of very different, aetiologically-speaking - conditions) is complexity at play. It is a genetic transcription error, but what causes that error?

    For some cancers, genetics is an important risk factor; for others less so. Similarly, exposure to an environmental agent can be a powerful predictor of risk, but sometimes it's near-irrelevant. And we're just starting to realise that things like mood can affect immune systems and there's an immune component to how the body deals with cancer. And so on...

    What determines whether you get cancer is a (probably Bayesian) combination of risks accumulated over one's life, plus an irreducible element of luck re: totally random transcription errors. On population level you might be able to demonstrate an excess risk over the baseline associated with one risk factor, and so suggest how many "extra" cancers might be caused by it. On an individual level, this is very rarely the case.

    A betting site's readership should be very comfortable with this approach to risk, rather than seeking definite statements about causality!
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited December 2014
    isam said:

    Ben Riley-Smith (@benrileysmith)
    14/12/2014 22:24
    Full 33-page document revealing Labour's secret Ukip strategy published here: bit.ly/1vPgWp3 pic.twitter.com/ijiZrz1kmn

    This is the first time I've seen election campaign effects quantified.

    "Of the relatively few studies that have attempted to quantify the effect of local campaigns, a change in intensity of the Labour Party’s local campaign from no campaigning to the average ‘campaign intensity’ was associated with an increase in our vote share of more than 5 percentage points, even when taking other local political factors in account.

    Of particular relevance to this election, there is evidence that the benefits gained from campaigning are even larger for opposition parties than they are for incumbents."

    P.13
    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03138/CampaigningAgainst_3138005a.pdf
  • There's a lot of info and data here leaked to the telegraph about Labour's strategy next year, in relation to UKIP.

    I think Labour are worried about losing their heartlands to UKIP

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03138/CampaigningAgainst_3138005a.pdf

    Blimey, they're on the ball.

    Another irony alert!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Unlike prevention, which is not lucrative to anyone -quite the opposite.

    You do realise that the vaccine industry is vastly profitable?

    And that much of the money in Alzheimer's research (including a few pennies of my own) is being spent in prevention.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Which Labour voters are most likely to back Ukip? Working-class Yorkshiremen who don't have degrees, says Party HQ.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B42Zb4MIQAAs9Sh.jpg

    Has Ed insulted Kim Jong-un?

    Was this a study carried out by 3 professors from the British Election Survey?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,961
    edited December 2014

    There's a lot of info and data here leaked to the telegraph about Labour's strategy next year, in relation to UKIP.

    I think Labour are worried about losing their heartlands to UKIP

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03138/CampaigningAgainst_3138005a.pdf

    Blimey, they're on the ball.

    Another irony alert!
    Table 3 on page 17 has a poll and why people vote the way they do.

    Edit - Scrub that, is an old public poll
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I gave the Libertarian Party a few quid back when Devil's Kitchen was in charge - I loved his blog. Then he made the mistake of going public with Andrew Neil and got totally squished. Mr Neil was horrible to him.

    It makes me cringe just thinking about it. There are a few of us hardcore libertarians still about from when blogging was the only way to be heard. I packed mine in just after 2010 as I thought it was job done. How wrong I was.

    PS I still have my Libertarian Party keyring!
    ZenPagan said:

    Plato said:

    Great summary. Confusing Liberals with Libertarians is a mistake made on here a lot.

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    It's the difference between liberalism and libertarianism. Liberalism praises liberty and thinks we should take steps to improve it, after considering other effects. Libertarianism is a extremist philosophy that believes the only source impeding liberty is the government, and thus wants to restrict government as much as possible, whatever the consequences.
    Simply not true. Libertarianism is not extreme and does not believe that the only source impeding liberty is the government. Both those contentions are absolutely false.

    Libertarianism views the State as one amongst a number of institutions which have the potential to impede the freedom of the individual. It does not claim that their should be no government, merely that the powers of the State should be curtailed as much as possible whilst still allowing it to carry out certain important basic functions. It is the crucial difference between Libertarianism and Anarchism.

    snip

    There once was a libertarian party in the uk under the leadership of Chris Mounsie from Devil's kitchen unfortunately subverted by a clique led by andrew withers who I always saw as a wrong one. Only political party I ever joined till andrew withers took over



  • Charles said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Ewald observed, though, "If one identical twin gets breast cancer, the other's likelihood of contracting it is only around 10% to 20%. This suggests that genes are not the whole story."

    Against that, if you look at the work that DeCode did in Iceland, comparing the national genetic database to the family rolls, it appears that something like 90% of Icelandii with breast cancer descended from the same monk. Which suggests a genetic component.
    Or a huge PUA of a monk. What % of the population were _not_ descended from him?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Is there such a thing as an ugly violinist?

    Me

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    It's the difference between liberalism and libertarianism. Liberalism praises liberty and thinks we should take steps to improve it, after considering other effects. Libertarianism is a extremist philosophy that believes the only source impeding liberty is the government, and thus wants to restrict government as much as possible, whatever the consequences.
    Simply not true. Libertarianism is not extreme and does not believe that the only source impeding liberty is the government. Both those contentions are absolutely false.

    Libertarianism views the State as one amongst a number of institutions which have the potential to impede the freedom of the individual. It does not claim that their should be no government, merely that the powers of the State should be curtailed as much as possible whilst still allowing it to carry out certain important basic functions. It is the crucial difference between Libertarianism and Anarchism.

    Liberalism believes that the State can be a source of liberty, Libertarianism believes that the State is nothing more than a tool of very limited use which should always be kept in check otherwise it will continue to grow and increase its power - something I find it hard to believe that anyone could logically disagree with.
    Many thanks for that comment, Richard.

    I was furiously and irately scrolling downthread to defend my ideals and being called an extremist (which I take great exception to) only to find that you had already explained the important differences both succinctly and eloquently.

    I'm still vaguely grumpy about the "extremist" label though. To me it feels positively middle ground and uncontroversial to have a 'don't tread on me' approach.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Inevitably Kerry Smith resigns as UKIP candidate for South Basildon and East Thurrock

    Time for Neil Hamilton to save the day... ;-)

    By the way (*tin foil hat at the read*) did Christine Hamilton's tweets over the last few days imply she knew this was coming...

    ...if so, why...?
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    GeoffM said:

    Is there such a thing as an ugly violinist?

    Me

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    It's the difference between liberalism and libertarianism. Liberalism praises liberty and thinks we should take steps to improve it, after considering other effects. Libertarianism is a extremist philosophy that believes the only source impeding liberty is the government, and thus wants to restrict government as much as possible, whatever the consequences.
    Simply not true. Libertarianism is not extreme and does not believe that the only source impeding liberty is the government. Both those contentions are absolutely false.

    Libertarianism views the State as one amongst a number of institutions which have the potential to impede the freedom of the individual. It does not claim that their should be no government, merely that the powers of the State should be curtailed as much as possible whilst still allowing it to carry out certain important basic functions. It is the crucial difference between Libertarianism and Anarchism.

    Liberalism believes that the State can be a source of liberty, Libertarianism believes that the State is nothing more than a tool of very limited use which should always be kept in check otherwise it will continue to grow and increase its power - something I find it hard to believe that anyone could logically disagree with.
    Many thanks for that comment, Richard.

    I was furiously and irately scrolling downthread to defend my ideals and being called an extremist (which I take great exception to) only to find that you had already explained the important differences both succinctly and eloquently.

    I'm still vaguely grumpy about the "extremist" label though. To me it feels positively middle ground and uncontroversial to have a 'don't tread on me' approach.
    These days an extremist is someone who refuses to vote for any of the big three if you judge by the like of flightpath and his ilk

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,961
    edited December 2014
    Charles said:

    Inevitably Kerry Smith resigns as UKIP candidate for South Basildon and East Thurrock

    Time for Neil Hamilton to save the day... ;-)

    By the way (*tin foil hat at the read*) did Christine Hamilton's tweets over the last few days imply she knew this was coming...

    ...if so, why...?
    She did know, when looking back at her tweets.

    If Neil Hamilton does become the candidate, we will know one way or another if Farage runs UKIP or if UKIP have become a rich man's play thing.

    Personally, Christine Hamilton should go for it, she'd be a great candidate/MP.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Mr @ChokinVase‌ - I really must ask - how does one pronounce your screen name and what does it refer to?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    @Richard,

    Ultimately, I think political philosophy comes down to a simple choice : does the government and the state exist at the behest of individuals, or the other way around.

    Strong statists see the government as bestowing rights on individuals. Libertarians see it the other way around.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    McIlroy has elected to represent ROI in the Olympics - he can have few complaints.
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    rcs1000 said:

    @Richard,

    Ultimately, I think political philosophy comes down to a simple choice : does the government and the state exist at the behest of individuals, or the other way around.

    Strong statists see the government as bestowing rights on individuals. Libertarians see it the other way around.

    Libertarians are right. Statists are always wrong

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Charles said:

    Inevitably Kerry Smith resigns as UKIP candidate for South Basildon and East Thurrock

    Time for Neil Hamilton to save the day... ;-)

    By the way (*tin foil hat at the read*) did Christine Hamilton's tweets over the last few days imply she knew this was coming...

    ...if so, why...?
    Personally, Christine Hamilton should go for it, she'd be a great candidate/MP.
    I agree. She comes across as a Good Egg.
  • TGOHF said:

    McIlroy has elected to represent ROI in the Olympics - he can have few complaints.

    You can rule out Andy Murray winning a future SPOTY.

    We don't like someone one who turns their back on the UK.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Didn't she win some Jungle reality TV show a few years ago? I think she's very entertaining. IIRC her Twitter handle is British Battleaxe.

    I've a very unprintable anecdote about her.

    Charles said:

    Inevitably Kerry Smith resigns as UKIP candidate for South Basildon and East Thurrock

    Time for Neil Hamilton to save the day... ;-)

    By the way (*tin foil hat at the read*) did Christine Hamilton's tweets over the last few days imply she knew this was coming...

    ...if so, why...?
    Personally, Christine Hamilton should go for it, she'd be a great candidate/MP.
    I agree. She comes across as a Good Egg.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Charles said:

    Inevitably Kerry Smith resigns as UKIP candidate for South Basildon and East Thurrock

    Time for Neil Hamilton to save the day... ;-)

    By the way (*tin foil hat at the read*) did Christine Hamilton's tweets over the last few days imply she knew this was coming...

    ...if so, why...?
    She did know, when looking back at her tweets.

    If Neil Hamilton does become the candidate, we will know one way or another if Farage runs UKIP or if UKIP have become a rich man's play thing.

    Personally, Christine Hamilton should go for it, she'd be a great candidate/MP.
    This seat is the ultimate poisoned chalice: first Bolter, then Neil Hamilton now the latest victim. Best vet the next one a bit more closely!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    McIlroy has elected to represent ROI in the Olympics - he can have few complaints.

    You can rule out Andy Murray winning a future SPOTY.

    We don't like someone one who turns their back on the UK.
    Indeed - Rory could win overseas personality in 2016 I guess.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Final canvassing anecdote of the year from me:

    Elderly gentleman: Yes?
    Me: Sorry to bother you! I'll be the Labour candidate in next...
    Elderly gentleman: You can stop right there. I have not voted Labour since that fellow Attlee got us in a mess.

    That's an impressively long time to bear a grudge. He shut the door before I could find out what Clement had done wrong.

    My father won't have the Observer in the house because of how they behaved over Suez...
  • Wow, it was an absolute shellacking for Rory Mac

    #SPOTY2014 votes: Hamilton 209,920, McIlroy 123,745, Pavey, 99,913.
  • TGOHF said:

    McIlroy has elected to represent ROI in the Olympics - he can have few complaints.

    Is he from the ROI?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    McIlroy has elected to represent ROI in the Olympics - he can have few complaints.

    Is he from the ROI?
    No - from Ulster.
  • Plato said:

    Didn't she win some Jungle reality TV show a few years ago? I think she's very entertaining. IIRC her Twitter handle is British Battleaxe.

    I've a very unprintable anecdote about her.

    Charles said:

    Inevitably Kerry Smith resigns as UKIP candidate for South Basildon and East Thurrock

    Time for Neil Hamilton to save the day... ;-)

    By the way (*tin foil hat at the read*) did Christine Hamilton's tweets over the last few days imply she knew this was coming...

    ...if so, why...?
    Personally, Christine Hamilton should go for it, she'd be a great candidate/MP.
    I agree. She comes across as a Good Egg.
    Oh please, do give us the merest hint re the anecdote!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    After a day retweeting anti ukip stuff, @election_data hears of the labour leak

    @election_data (@election_data)
    14/12/2014 22:54
    Pfffft
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited December 2014

    Charles said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Ewald observed, though, "If one identical twin gets breast cancer, the other's likelihood of contracting it is only around 10% to 20%. This suggests that genes are not the whole story."

    Against that, if you look at the work that DeCode did in Iceland, comparing the national genetic database to the family rolls, it appears that something like 90% of Icelandii with breast cancer descended from the same monk. Which suggests a genetic component.
    Or a huge PUA of a monk. What % of the population were _not_ descended from him?
    I always wondered that...

    But I just liked the factoid, so it stuck in my mind whereas the rest of the paper (from 2002, I think) didn't.

    This gives some of the background

    http://www.decode.com/decode-discovers-common-genetic-variants-linked-to-increased-risk-of-breast-cancer/
  • I hope you all followed me on backing Lewis Hamilton as SPOTY.

    TSE - Many thanks for that profitable steer last night to back Lewis Hamilton to win SPOTY, based on a YouGov poll showing a good many more believed he would win rather than McIlroy.
    I've only just heard about my good fortune, having completely given up on my chances earlier this evening when the betting odds suggested that the Irishman was set to win with ease.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    I hope you all followed me on backing Lewis Hamilton as SPOTY.

    TSE - Many thanks for that profitable steer last night to back Lewis Hamilton to win SPOTY, based on a YouGov poll showing a good many more believed he would win rather than McIlroy.
    I've only just heard about my good fortune, having completely given up on my chances earlier this evening when the betting odds suggested that the Irishman was set to win with ease.
    Striking for ,e was the paucity of the show and the lack of footage. The whole event should be moved to Sky.
  • I hope you all followed me on backing Lewis Hamilton as SPOTY.

    TSE - Many thanks for that profitable steer last night to back Lewis Hamilton to win SPOTY, based on a YouGov poll showing a good many more believed he would win rather than McIlroy.
    I've only just heard about my good fortune, having completely given up on my chances earlier this evening when the betting odds suggested that the Irishman was set to win with ease.
    Another irony alert, though this feels more like a 'Take the piss' alert
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    ZenPagan said:

    GeoffM said:

    Is there such a thing as an ugly violinist?

    Me

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    ...
    Simply not true. Libertarianism is not extreme and does not believe that the only source impeding liberty is the government. Both those contentions are absolutely false.

    Libertarianism views the State as one amongst a number of institutions which have the potential to impede the freedom of the individual. It does not claim that their should be no government, merely that the powers of the State should be curtailed as much as possible whilst still allowing it to carry out certain important basic functions. It is the crucial difference between Libertarianism and Anarchism.

    Liberalism believes that the State can be a source of liberty, Libertarianism believes that the State is nothing more than a tool of very limited use which should always be kept in check otherwise it will continue to grow and increase its power - something I find it hard to believe that anyone could logically disagree with.
    Many thanks for that comment, Richard.

    I was furiously and irately scrolling downthread to defend my ideals and being called an extremist (which I take great exception to) only to find that you had already explained the important differences both succinctly and eloquently.

    I'm still vaguely grumpy about the "extremist" label though. To me it feels positively middle ground and uncontroversial to have a 'don't tread on me' approach.
    These days an extremist is someone who refuses to vote for any of the big three if you judge by the like of flightpath and his ilk

    An extremist is clearly someone who can only make childish excuses for people not likeing the bigotry of his own party
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Charles said:

    Inevitably Kerry Smith resigns as UKIP candidate for South Basildon and East Thurrock

    Time for Neil Hamilton to save the day... ;-)

    By the way (*tin foil hat at the read*) did Christine Hamilton's tweets over the last few days imply she knew this was coming...

    ...if so, why...?
    She did know, when looking back at her tweets.

    If Neil Hamilton does become the candidate, we will know one way or another if Farage runs UKIP or if UKIP have become a rich man's play thing.

    Personally, Christine Hamilton should go for it, she'd be a great candidate/MP.
    This seat is the ultimate poisoned chalice: first Bolter, then Neil Hamilton now the latest victim. Best vet the next one a bit more closely!
    Reckless might need a new seat in 2015. Perhaps he could stand there?
  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689

    ZenPagan said:

    GeoffM said:

    Is there such a thing as an ugly violinist?

    Me

    Socrates said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find it bizarre that anyone would care what consenting adults do in the comfort of their own home.

    And that includes: pornography, homosexuality, heroin, video games, etc. etc. etc.

    If Country A and Country B were at war, and Country A air-dropped tonnes of heroin (or any other addictive intoxicant) on Country B in order to subdue the populace, would Country B be justified in introducing strong regulations against it's possession, use, sale, etc.?
    Obviously no.
    Not so much liberalism as suicide then.
    ...
    Simply not true. Libertarianism is not extreme and does not believe that the only source impeding liberty is the government. Both those contentions are absolutely false.

    Libertarianism views the State as one amongst a number of institutions which have the potential to impede the freedom of the individual. It does not claim that their should be no government, merely that the powers of the State should be curtailed as much as possible whilst still allowing it to carry out certain important basic functions. It is the crucial difference between Libertarianism and Anarchism.

    Liberalism believes that the State can be a source of liberty, Libertarianism believes that the State is nothing more than a tool of very limited use which should always be kept in check otherwise it will continue to grow and increase its power - something I find it hard to believe that anyone could logically disagree with.
    Many thanks for that comment, Richard.

    I was furiously and irately scrolling downthread to defend my ideals and being called an extremist (which I take great exception to) only to find that you had already explained the important differences both succinctly and eloquently.

    I'm still vaguely grumpy about the "extremist" label though. To me it feels positively middle ground and uncontroversial to have a 'don't tread on me' approach.
    These days an extremist is someone who refuses to vote for any of the big three if you judge by the like of flightpath and his ilk

    An extremist is clearly someone who can only make childish excuses for people not likeing the bigotry of his own party
    Congratulations on the self realization. It is not before time

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Charles said:

    Inevitably Kerry Smith resigns as UKIP candidate for South Basildon and East Thurrock

    Time for Neil Hamilton to save the day... ;-)

    By the way (*tin foil hat at the read*) did Christine Hamilton's tweets over the last few days imply she knew this was coming...

    ...if so, why...?
    She did know, when looking back at her tweets.

    If Neil Hamilton does become the candidate, we will know one way or another if Farage runs UKIP or if UKIP have become a rich man's play thing.

    Personally, Christine Hamilton should go for it, she'd be a great candidate/MP.
    This seat is the ultimate poisoned chalice: first Bolter, then Neil Hamilton now the latest victim. Best vet the next one a bit more closely!
    Reckless might need a new seat in 2015. Perhaps he could stand there?
    Kilroy could make a comeback ?
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    At 9:29 this morning I delivered a leaflet to the home of Alex Haenow, brother of X Factor winner Ben Haenow.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    Carnyx said:


    I've said we should have had a referendum on same sex marriage, just to show the homophobes how out of touch they were.

    I seem to recall that Brian Souter arranged one in Scotland over Section 28 because the Scottish Parliament wouldn't have one.

    31.8% of people in Scotland voted excluding spoilt ballots (as a comparison 42% voted in the UK Alternative Vote referendum in 2011 and 50% voted in the 2011 Scottish General Election.)

    86.8% voted in favour of keeping Section 28, 13.2% in favour of repeal.

    Amount of Votes in Favour of Keeping Section 28 in 2001: 1,096,011
    Amount of Votes SNP got in 2011 Scot Parliament election: 902,915

    Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
    Scotland has always been (relatively speaking to England) backwards to homosexuality.

    It was Thatcher who decriminalised homosexuality in Scotland, which was one of her earliest achievements as Prime Minister.

    So prior to 1980, being gay in Scotland was a crime.

    Some SNP MSPs have been accused by one of their own MEPS of being mean, angry bigots (when it comes to gay equality)

    This isn't a dig at Scotland or the SNP, the SNP also have introduced same sex marriage.

    I understand the various religious factors in play there.
    Not sure if it is more backward now but yes, both issues were very much cross party. There were some Labour MSPs very unhappy with same-sex marriage for instance.

    It wasn't SNP MPs who voted against the English gay marriage bill. A big percentage of no votes came from Scottish Labour MPs. Pretty despicable.
    Ah, thanks. Wonder what the Right in England would say if they tried that today?
    Well, I've made my opposition to EVEL clear to you in the past so I've no problem with it. And I'm a Ukipper.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited December 2014
    @ChokinVase

    A good summary. Many diseases are of the multiple hit variety, with the gene that predisposes being triggered by one or more environmental trigger, with a dose of random bad luck in addition. Even obviously genetic conditions such as sickle cell are influenced by environment.

    The gene/environment discussion reminds me of the ancient theological discussion on pre-destination and free will. Either has its advocates, but in practice people believe they have free will. Similarly with diseases there is little we can do with the genetic hand of cards that we are dealt, our only influence on our health is our own environments.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    JohnLoony said:

    At 9:29 this morning I delivered a leaflet to the home of Alex Haenow, brother of X Factor winner Ben Haenow.

    Would it be fair to describe you as a stalker?
  • There's a lot of info and data here leaked to the telegraph about Labour's strategy next year, in relation to UKIP.

    I think Labour are worried about losing their heartlands to UKIP

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03138/CampaigningAgainst_3138005a.pdf

    The other interesting question is why and who would leak such a document to the Telegraph.......?

    Someone with less than 100% faith in Ed Miliband?

    That'll narrow down the list of suspects......
  • ChokinVaseChokinVase Posts: 67
    edited December 2014

    isam said:

    Ben Riley-Smith (@benrileysmith)
    14/12/2014 22:24
    Full 33-page document revealing Labour's secret Ukip strategy published here: bit.ly/1vPgWp3 pic.twitter.com/ijiZrz1kmn

    This is the first time I've seen election campaign effects quantified.

    "Of the relatively few studies that have attempted to quantify the effect of local campaigns, a change in intensity of the Labour Party’s local campaign from no campaigning to the average ‘campaign intensity’ was associated with an increase in our vote share of more than 5 percentage points, even when taking other local political factors in account.

    Of particular relevance to this election, there is evidence that the benefits gained from campaigning are even larger for opposition parties than they are for incumbents."
    Most of the document is fairly standard research/marketing that you'd expect any competent organisation to try to educate their salesforce about, but the quantification on that point was interesting, yes. Of course, if everyone's doing the same, it will largely cancel out, but the residual effect you note is intriguing.
    Plato said:

    Mr @ChokinVase‌ - I really must ask - how does one pronounce your screen name and what does it refer to?

    A Chokin vase was what I saw first when I looked up from my screen when I was trying to think up a username. Chokin is a type of Japanese engraving & then gilding. Pronounced as you'd read it.

    (Chokin is also the word for savings/bank deposits, with chokinbako being the word for a "savings box" ie. piggybank. I don't yet know enough Japanese to say whether the etymology/kanji is the same as that used for the art or not, but I like the idea of a gilded piggybank!)
This discussion has been closed.