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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The British Election Study – the big new resource for GE201

SystemSystem Posts: 12,214
edited December 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The British Election Study – the big new resource for GE2015 watchers

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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,171
    Time to don the anorak?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    One thing that may militate against a UKIP to tory swing back in the coming months is....er.....Europe.

    The clouds are gathering over Greece again.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: "LibDems to do worse than uniform swing" says #BESInsights
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: "LibDems to do worse than uniform swing" says #BESInsights

    Crikey be careful, that is a "yellow" card offence #askdickson
  • It's going to be a complete mess whatever happens but my guess would be a Lab-SNP coalition in which Labour agrees to f>ck England for even more free money for Scotland, in return for all of Scotland remaining Labour-supporting rotten boroughs.

    Why, why, why could those useless Scotch pr>cks not have won their stupid referendum and cleared off. They could be well on their way to turning into North Korea by now while the rest of us laugh and elect a sensible government.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    isam said:

    Crikey be careful, that is a "yellow" card offence #askdickson

    This guy better be careful then...

    @MSmithsonPB: Oxford's Stephen Fisher #BESinsights BES data shows LDs doing badly in its strongholds - more seat losses in prospect?
  • Mr. Bond, whilst a unionist, better a clean-break than an unsustainable lopsided unfair settlement for England.

    FPT: Mr. Nabavi, not off-hand, I'm afraid. I read it on Twitter, which I know isn't exactly 100%, but if it weren't for that I would never have heard of the deranged EU VAT law at all.

    FPT: Mr. G, Salmond's a divisive, unpleasant creature. Yes, he's intelligent and competent, but he's more irritating than Ed Balls.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited December 2014
    If BES are right and the SLDs are heading into losses of 2/3 not 1/3, that could finally wake up Lib Dem coup plots. So far most LD MPs view themseves as "I'm alright jack", believing in their own local press releases on how brilliant they are etc etc..
    If someone changes that perception and suddenly its panic stations.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    What blatant product placement :)
  • Why, why, why could those useless Scotch pr>cks not have won their stupid referendum and cleared off. They could be well on their way to turning into North Korea by now while the rest of us laugh and elect a sensible government.

    It shall come to pass. The English will not stand idly by forever whilst getting the sideways pineapple treatment from Scotland. At some point there will be a non-Labour government in Westminster (how about May 2015?). EVFEL follows, as sooner or later must an English Parliament and a federal UK. The Scots (and Ed) may have their hour in the sun, but that sun will go down followed by a long cold night. A Scottish dawn will re-emerge when they rediscover Adam Smith and abandon their nationalist and socialist ways.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    "Q: [To Evans] Do you think there is little difference between the parties? Or is it just a matter of perception?

    Evans says you can look at the parties’ policies, and code their policies. We know they have got more similar, he says."

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2014/dec/09/british-election-study-conference-politics-live-blog#block-54870057e4b01a03d33240f8
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited December 2014
    The BES insights on the LDs were available in Sunday's R4 Westminster Hour programme. Unfortunately its dreary programmes attract so few PB listeners and we miss these gems.

    Why is it usually so dire? Is it the regular host Carolyn Quinn? This week the BES bit had Mark D'arcy.
  • It's going to be a complete mess whatever happens but my guess would be a Lab-SNP coalition in which Labour agrees to f>ck England for even more free money for Scotland, in return for all of Scotland remaining Labour-supporting rotten boroughs.

    Why, why, why could those useless Scotch pr>cks not have won their stupid referendum and cleared off. They could be well on their way to turning into North Korea by now while the rest of us laugh and elect a sensible government.

    A Nat/socialist government has a strong "the worse, the better" appeal.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2014
    Scott_P said:

    isam said:

    Crikey be careful, that is a "yellow" card offence #askdickson

    This guy better be careful then...

    @MSmithsonPB: Oxford's Stephen Fisher #BESinsights BES data shows LDs doing badly in its strongholds - more seat losses in prospect?
    Double Standards?! Nooooo???
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,171

    The BES insights on the LDs were available in Sunday's R4 Westminster Hour programme. Unfortunately its dreary programmes attract so few PB listeners and we miss these gems.

    Why is it usually so dire? Is it the regular host Carolyn Quinn? This week the BES bit had Mark D'arcy.

    I'm always puzzled why "Westminster Hour" only lasts 45 minutes. More coalition cuts?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    It's going to be a complete mess whatever happens but my guess would be a Lab-SNP coalition in which Labour agrees to f>ck England for even more free money for Scotland, in return for all of Scotland remaining Labour-supporting rotten boroughs.

    Why, why, why could those useless Scotch pr>cks not have won their stupid referendum and cleared off. They could be well on their way to turning into North Korea by now while the rest of us laugh and elect a sensible government.

    A Nat/socialist government has a strong "the worse, the better" appeal.
    Indeed. A Nationalist-Socialist government would be pretty damn bad.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    edited December 2014
    The collapse of the Lib Dem vote in by elections apart from Eastleigh doesn't back up the theory that the Lib Dems are losing most of their support in the seats they hold.
  • shadsyshadsy Posts: 289
    edited December 2014
    The Top 10 Labour Seats under threat from UKIP
    http://politicalbookie.com/2014/12/09/the-top-10-labour-seats-under-threat-from-ukip/

    One bold Ladbrokes customer has just had £1,000 on UKIP winning over 29.5 seats at 9/2.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Mr. Bond, whilst a unionist, better a clean-break than an unsustainable lopsided unfair settlement for England.

    Of course Miliband is going to screw over England. His father has contempt for the English and felt - despite being a Jew - that he almost wanted the English to lose to the Nazis to "show them the way things are". And Ralph Miliband is Ed's political idol. He wants to honour him by bringing socialism back to the country, and the English are a barrier to that. So he wants to marginalise them as much as he can. More power to the non-English devolved administrations. Non-English MPs voting on English only matters. More immigrants that can be trusted to vote Labour. More EU control. Rushing through votes for children on England despite the vast majority of English being against it. He's going to vandalise our constitution as fast as he can before his government falls, so that he rigs the deck long term in favour of Ralph Miliband's anti-English socialism.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Gordon Brown's spin doctor Damian McBride argued that Ed Miliband was obsessed with maintaining his father's legacy. Winning the leadership was Ed's 'ultimate tribute' to his father - an attempt to 'achieve his father's vision and ensure David Miliband did not traduce it'.
  • Mr. Socrates, if you feel that strongly I'm mildly surprised you're not supporting, albeit with grim reluctance, the Conservatives. UKIP will do well, relatively, in six months. But there are only two men who can emerge as PM.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Artist said:

    The collapse of the Lib Dem vote in by elections apart from Eastleigh doesn't back up the theory that the Lib Dems are losing most of their support in the seats they hold.

    The LD vote fell in Eastleigh too: -14.4%

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastleigh_by-election,_2013#Result
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    shadsy said:

    The Top 10 Labour Seats under threat from UKIP
    http://politicalbookie.com/2014/12/09/the-top-10-labour-seats-under-threat-from-ukip/

    One bold Ladbrokes customer has just had £1,000 on UKIP winning over 29.5 seats at 9/2.

    9/2?

    lol
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited December 2014
    @Morris_Dancer (and anyone else interested in the European Union's policy of making it uneconomic for small businesses to sell online):

    Consumers shall not be refused access to services online on grounds of their Member State of residence unless the refusal is justified by objective criteria in accordance to the Commission Staff Working Document with a view to establishing guidance on the application of Article 20(2) of Directive 2006/123/EC on services in the internal market ('the Services Directive').

    https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/code-eu-online-rights

    So, does the VAT hassle constitute an 'objective criterion' for discrimination? It looks like it might:

    With regard to national taxation, in particular VAT, when sales in other Member States make a service provider subject to a registration obligation in those Member States, the costs of the supply can increase, being proportionally higher for SME businesses. These may then be passed on to the customer or justify a refusal to supply. Furthermore, differences in the VAT rates applied to different products and services in the different Member States can explain certain price differences visible to the consumer. Some services that are commonly purchased cross-border include electronic services, for example software and ringtone downloads or access to online games.

    From 1 January 2015, operators established in the EU providing these services in the EU will charge VAT at the rate applicable in the Member State where the customer resides. While these new rules aim to reduce, even remove, the effect of competition between Member States’ VAT rates, they may generate costs due to additional complexity. A ‘mini One Stop Shop’ will be introduced as of the same date allowing businesses to register, declare and pay the VAT due in other MemberStates in their own Member State, reducing administrative burden and facilitating cross-border provision of telecommunication, broadcasting and electronic services.


    http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/services/docs/services-dir/implementation/report/SWD_2012_146_en.pdf

    Page 22
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Mr. Socrates, if you feel that strongly I'm mildly surprised you're not supporting, albeit with grim reluctance, the Conservatives. UKIP will do well, relatively, in six months. But there are only two men who can emerge as PM.

    The votes at 16 thing has got me reconsidering. I would like to vote for the main centre-right party, I really would. I just want them to get serious about immigration and civil liberties. But they keep on going in the wrong direction.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Of course Miliband is going to screw over England.

    There is something in what you say, but I doubt such an agenda could carry the English MPs in his party. If the polls are any indication, many will have squeaked through in two, three or even four way marginals.
  • Mr. Socrates, if you feel that strongly I'm mildly surprised you're not supporting, albeit with grim reluctance, the Conservatives. UKIP will do well, relatively, in six months. But there are only two men who can emerge as PM.

    The long term goal must be the demise of Labour as a significant player in British politics, EdM becoming PM with around 30% of the vote in a low turnout GE could lead to the desired objective.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    taffys said:

    There is something in what you say, but I doubt such an agenda could carry the English MPs in his party. If the polls are any indication, many will have squeaked through in two, three or even four way marginals.

    How many Labour MPs representing English constituencies are not English?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pong said:

    shadsy said:

    The Top 10 Labour Seats under threat from UKIP
    http://politicalbookie.com/2014/12/09/the-top-10-labour-seats-under-threat-from-ukip/

    One bold Ladbrokes customer has just had £1,000 on UKIP winning over 29.5 seats at 9/2.

    9/2?

    lol
    £259 available at 7.87 on Betfair over 25.5
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited December 2014
    Pong said:

    shadsy said:

    The Top 10 Labour Seats under threat from UKIP
    http://politicalbookie.com/2014/12/09/the-top-10-labour-seats-under-threat-from-ukip/

    One bold Ladbrokes customer has just had £1,000 on UKIP winning over 29.5 seats at 9/2.

    9/2?

    lol
    Seriously, can anyone explain why taking that bet makes more sense than buying UKIP on SPIN at £100/seat?

    The logic completely escapes me. I can only conclude that Kippers and their Kash are easily parted.
  • Mr. Nabavi, good hunting, but the very fact that we're discussing whether it 'might' affect things for a stupid law coming into effect in just 3 weeks is indicative of the uncertainty and poor communication surrounding it.

    Mr. Socrates, to a lesser extent I know what you mean. Votes at 16 is a stupid idea, but my mind's been largely made up for a long time due to the nature of my constituency.

    Mr. Taffys, maybe. Labour MPs are loyal to the point of idiocy. They last time, I think, they rebelled seriously it was over locking people up for 90 days without needing any of that pesky evidence. There's little sign of a serious crack in party discipline when it comes to Labour denying English votes for English laws.

    If Miliband wins and ****s up English devolution with poxy artificial city-regions and other such nonsense it'll be a lot harder to clear that away and get English votes let alone an English Parliament. As Mr. Socrates indicates, Labour could **** up English devolution on a long-term basis.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited December 2014
    taffys said:

    Of course Miliband is going to screw over England.

    There is something in what you say, but I doubt such an agenda could carry the English MPs in his party. If the polls are any indication, many will have squeaked through in two, three or even four way marginals.

    Which is why he's rushing votes for kids through by 2016. He knows the country doesn't want his brand of socialism in honour to his father's legacy. That's why the first thing on his list will be to gerrymander the electorate so that kids can vote. He knows this is a group that has generally never paid taxes, has had their heads filled with the ideas of left-wing teaching unions, but haven't had contact with the real world so that their wooly social democracy gets mugged by reality. They are the perfect group to give him the votes to get him over the line next time, even if he is rejected by the adult population in short order this time. The worst part of all is that he'll use the SNP to screw over the English with this.

    No doubt he'll also try to let in more immigrants too. They, helpfully, aren't connected to Ralph's hated groups and values: "Eton and Harrow, Oxford and Cambridge, the great Clubs, the Times, the Church, the Army, the respectable Sunday papers... good taste, don't rock the boat" etc.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1 min1 minute ago

    Matthew Goodwin #BESinsights
    UKIP non returners to former party motivated by immigration.
    With returners it's the economy
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited December 2014

    Mr. Nabavi, good hunting, but the very fact that we're discussing whether it 'might' affect things for a stupid law coming into effect in just 3 weeks is indicative of the uncertainty and poor communication surrounding it.

    Quite, and also it is ludicrous that there isn't a clear, unambiguous and legally watertight statement by the government and/or the Commission on whether it is OK to restrict sales to the UK only or not on the basis of the hassle. Can't be hard, can it? A one-sentence statement will do.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Mr. Nabavi, good hunting, but the very fact that we're discussing whether it 'might' affect things for a stupid law coming into effect in just 3 weeks is indicative of the uncertainty and poor communication surrounding it.

    Mr. Socrates, to a lesser extent I know what you mean. Votes at 16 is a stupid idea, but my mind's been largely made up for a long time due to the nature of my constituency.

    Mr. Taffys, maybe. Labour MPs are loyal to the point of idiocy. They last time, I think, they rebelled seriously it was over locking people up for 90 days without needing any of that pesky evidence. There's little sign of a serious crack in party discipline when it comes to Labour denying English votes for English laws.

    If Miliband wins and ****s up English devolution with poxy artificial city-regions and other such nonsense it'll be a lot harder to clear that away and get English votes let alone an English Parliament. As Mr. Socrates indicates, Labour could **** up English devolution on a long-term basis.

    Vote Tory.
  • Mr. Nabavi, again, I entirely agree. The degree of incompetence involved in the writing of that law is rancid.
  • Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1 min1 minute ago

    Matthew Goodwin #BESinsights
    UKIP non returners to former party motivated by immigration.
    With returners it's the economy

    And there, PBers, is the differential swingback I've been postulating. The result of the election will hinge on how big the effect is.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    edited December 2014

    Mr. Socrates, if you feel that strongly I'm mildly surprised you're not supporting, albeit with grim reluctance, the Conservatives. UKIP will do well, relatively, in six months. But there are only two men who can emerge as PM.

    The long term goal must be the demise of Labour as a significant player in British politics, EdM becoming PM with around 30% of the vote in a low turnout GE could lead to the desired objective.
    Foolish comment, unlikely ambition.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1 min1 minute ago

    Matthew Goodwin #BESinsights
    UKIP non returners to former party motivated by immigration.
    With returners it's the economy

    If May had done her job on immigration - even half way getting it to the target - the Tories would be romping home at this point.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    edited December 2014

    Artist said:

    The collapse of the Lib Dem vote in by elections apart from Eastleigh doesn't back up the theory that the Lib Dems are losing most of their support in the seats they hold.

    The LD vote fell in Eastleigh too: -14.4%

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastleigh_by-election,_2013#Result
    More than I expected, but it's likely they could fall into the 30s in a lot of their seats and still win them as UKIP will be taking mainly Conservative votes.

    The assertion all along has been that the Lib Dem vote will collapse nationwide, potentially losing several deposits as they are no longer seen as a protest vote (UKIP), no longer the place for disaffected lefties (Greens) and are less seen as an alternative anti-Tory option (Labour). There's no explanation why their vote would be holding up in seats they're not challenging.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    @Morris_Dancer (and anyone else interested in the European Union's policy of making it uneconomic for small businesses to sell online):

    Anyone have the faintest idea what this means if your sideline is providing web content which is financed and turns a modest profit by way of google ads placement ? The combinations are too large to contemplate, is the service provided by the site author, by google, by the company placing each advert, and its the service being provided to the page views, the company placing the advert, or google.. argh!

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited December 2014

    @Morris_Dancer (and anyone else interested in the European Union's policy of making it uneconomic for small businesses to sell online):

    Consumers shall not be refused access to services online on grounds of their Member State of residence unless the refusal is justified by objective criteria in accordance to the Commission Staff Working Document with a view to establishing guidance on the application of Article 20(2) of Directive 2006/123/EC on services in the internal market ('the Services Directive').

    https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/code-eu-online-rights

    So, does the VAT hassle constitute an 'objective criterion' for discrimination? It looks like it might:

    With regard to national taxation, in particular VAT, when sales in other Member States make a service provider subject to a registration obligation in those Member States, the costs of the supply can increase, being proportionally higher for SME businesses. These may then be passed on to the customer or justify a refusal to supply. Furthermore, differences in the VAT rates applied to different products and services in the different Member States can explain certain price differences visible to the consumer. Some services that are commonly purchased cross-border include electronic services, for example software and ringtone downloads or access to online games.

    From 1 January 2015, operators established in the EU providing these services in the EU will charge VAT at the rate applicable in the Member State where the customer resides. While these new rules aim to reduce, even remove, the effect of competition between Member States’ VAT rates, they may generate costs due to additional complexity. A ‘mini One Stop Shop’ will be introduced as of the same date allowing businesses to register, declare and pay the VAT due in other MemberStates in their own Member State, reducing administrative burden and facilitating cross-border provision of telecommunication, broadcasting and electronic services.


    http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/services/docs/services-dir/implementation/report/SWD_2012_146_en.pdf

    Page 22

    I can't believe the usual anti-EU media outlets haven't been all over this story. It is a bloody nightmare.

    I have two start-ups in other EU countries, and having to reconfigure things, put in place system to capture the personal data of customers (yes we are now have to be the European VAT police) at the moment etc, in order to be ready for 1st January. I wont be having any time off over Xmas, partly because of this.

    It is the removal of any zero band threshold that is a pain. With a start-up you have no idea if and when revenue will pick up, but if I want to sell goods or services even 99p worth across Europe, I now have to jump through a load of extra hoops.

  • Mr. Nabavi, good hunting, but the very fact that we're discussing whether it 'might' affect things for a stupid law coming into effect in just 3 weeks is indicative of the uncertainty and poor communication surrounding it.

    Quite, and also it is ludicrous that there isn't a clear, unambiguous and legally watertight statement by the government and/or the Commission on whether it is OK to restrict sales to the UK only or not on the basis of the hassle. Can't be hard, can it? A one-sentence statement will do.
    Pragmatically, I would work on the basis of "not". The Metric Martyrs went uncrucified.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    shadsy said:

    The Top 10 Labour Seats under threat from UKIP
    http://politicalbookie.com/2014/12/09/the-top-10-labour-seats-under-threat-from-ukip/

    One bold Ladbrokes customer has just had £1,000 on UKIP winning over 29.5 seats at 9/2.

    9/2?

    lol
    Seriously, can anyone explain why taking that bet makes more sense than buying UKIP on SPIN at £100/seat?

    The logic completely escapes me. I can only conclude that Kippers and their Kash are easily parted.
    It doesn't seem a good bet to me, but I don't think buying at 11 is either

    If you think they are going to get 32-35 seats you are getting an extra £2k by taking the 9/2

    The person betting it could have bought the seats with SPIN as well but their odds aren't really better are they? Paying 11 seems high to me as I said

    That's assuming he has/can get a SPIN account.. as they close anyone with half a clue its probably unlikely

    So haven't done the maths, but as you can get better odds with a lower threshold on Betfair, its a BAD BET.. bit is SPIN buy better? Not for me

    The best bet is 3-4 seats at 8/1...but you don't rate that either do you?!
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''if May had done her job on immigration - even half way getting it to the target - the Tories would be romping home at this point.''

    May never had the tools. Her mistake was to pretend she did.

    Events dear boy, events. Who is best placed to take advantage of another European crisis?
  • Also micro-businesses / startup located in countries outside of the EU that shall we say less strictly enforced even their own laws, although technically should be following this, 100% they wont. Are the EU paper pusher going to invade China and demand their 99 euro in owned VAT?
  • Uber isn't having that great a week. Fresh from having been banned in Delhi, it's just been banned in Spain and Thailand.
  • Mr. Socrates, if you feel that strongly I'm mildly surprised you're not supporting, albeit with grim reluctance, the Conservatives. UKIP will do well, relatively, in six months. But there are only two men who can emerge as PM.

    The long term goal must be the demise of Labour as a significant player in British politics, EdM becoming PM with around 30% of the vote in a low turnout GE could lead to the desired objective.
    Foolish comment, unlikely ambition.
    You're almost paraphrasing the late Steve Jobs.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Socrates said:

    Which is why he's rushing votes for kids through by 2016. He knows the country doesn't want his brand of socialism in honour to his father's legacy. That's why the first thing on his list will be to gerrymander the electorate so that kids can vote. He knows this is a group that has generally never paid taxes, has had their heads filled with the ideas of left-wing teaching unions, but haven't had contact with the real world so that their wooly social democracy gets mugged by reality. They are the perfect group to give him the votes to get him over the line next time, even if he is rejected by the adult population in short order this time. .

    The flaw in his plan is obvious, and makes it immediately clear he doesn't have any teenage kids. What is the turnout going to be like ? GOTV ? Dont make me laugh, you can't get them out of bed, not even when there is food on the table, never mind if it involves a brisk walk down the road to the local community centre. "Voting ? Woteva, thats borin..."
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited December 2014
    Socrates said:

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1 min1 minute ago

    Matthew Goodwin #BESinsights
    UKIP non returners to former party motivated by immigration.
    With returners it's the economy

    If May had done her job on immigration - even half way getting it to the target - the Tories would be romping home at this point.
    Yes and not helped by Osborne squeezing the border operations too hard for cash, Willetts slowing down the foreign student reforms and Cameron delaying tackling welfare for foreign workers. All to keep Lib Dems happy.
  • @MSmithsonPB

    Jane Green #BESinsights LAB picking up most non voters from last 2 GEs maybe raising questions about strength of support
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    taffys said:

    ''if May had done her job on immigration - even half way getting it to the target - the Tories would be romping home at this point.''

    May never had the tools. Her mistake was to pretend she did.

    Events dear boy, events. Who is best placed to take advantage of another European crisis?

    EU immigration was always out of her hands, but even non-EU immigration alone is 60% above the target. She's done next to nothing to stop non-integrating groups bringing over arranged brides. Nothing on primary purpose. And several of the measures she did bring in have been watered down to the point they're ineffectual. The quota for certain working visas is almost double the numbers coming here. People are coming in to do jobs that are less than a graduate starting salary.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    I presume this has been mentioned

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2014-12-08/welsh-labour-sees-support-slip-but-faces-no-clear-challenger/

    Wales: Lab 36 (-2), Con 23 (=), UKIP 18 (+1), Plaid 11 (=), LD 5 (-1), GRN 5 (-1)
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Mr. Nabavi, good hunting, but the very fact that we're discussing whether it 'might' affect things for a stupid law coming into effect in just 3 weeks is indicative of the uncertainty and poor communication surrounding it.

    Quite, and also it is ludicrous that there isn't a clear, unambiguous and legally watertight statement by the government and/or the Commission on whether it is OK to restrict sales to the UK only or not on the basis of the hassle. Can't be hard, can it? A one-sentence statement will do.
    They are following the HRMC standard approach, basically summarised as "You try it, and then we will decided if we want to sue you". Asking for HRMC's agreement in advance on anything is a hiding to nothing, try getting them for example to look at a contract and tell you if you are caught by the personal services company legislation or not. I suspect getting clarity of these VAT rules is going to be another of the same ilk.
  • Mr. Indigo, don't know, alas. There's also a big question mark over things like Kickstarter and Patreon.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Socrates said:

    taffys said:

    Of course Miliband is going to screw over England.

    There is something in what you say, but I doubt such an agenda could carry the English MPs in his party. If the polls are any indication, many will have squeaked through in two, three or even four way marginals.

    Which is why he's rushing votes for kids through by 2016. He knows the country doesn't want his brand of socialism in honour to his father's legacy. That's why the first thing on his list will be to gerrymander the electorate so that kids can vote. He knows this is a group that has generally never paid taxes, has had their heads filled with the ideas of left-wing teaching unions, but haven't had contact with the real world so that their wooly social democracy gets mugged by reality. They are the perfect group to give him the votes to get him over the line next time, even if he is rejected by the adult population in short order this time. The worst part of all is that he'll use the SNP to screw over the English with this.

    No doubt he'll also try to let in more immigrants too. They, helpfully, aren't connected to Ralph's hated groups and values: "Eton and Harrow, Oxford and Cambridge, the great Clubs, the Times, the Church, the Army, the respectable Sunday papers... good taste, don't rock the boat" etc.
    There's a delicious irony to what voting UKIP will achieve at GE 2015. More of what they despise.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Socrates said:

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1 min1 minute ago

    Matthew Goodwin #BESinsights
    UKIP non returners to former party motivated by immigration.
    With returners it's the economy

    If May had done her job on immigration - even half way getting it to the target - the Tories would be romping home at this point.
    To be fair to her (not something I do often) if Cameron had not made a promise that would not have been possible to fulfil even if the Tories had a large majority, she might have stood some chance. As it was he got all excited at being in front of the cameras and made promises he had no possibility of keeping, come to think about it that has a familiar ring about it.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    chestnut said:

    I presume this has been mentioned

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2014-12-08/welsh-labour-sees-support-slip-but-faces-no-clear-challenger/

    Wales: Lab 36 (-2), Con 23 (=), UKIP 18 (+1), Plaid 11 (=), LD 5 (-1), GRN 5 (-1)

    Tables are now available.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/6zuj63gt5x/ITVWalesResults_Dec14_Website.pdf
  • The BES insights on the LDs were available in Sunday's R4 Westminster Hour programme. Unfortunately its dreary programmes attract so few PB listeners and we miss these gems.

    Why is it usually so dire? Is it the regular host Carolyn Quinn? This week the BES bit had Mark D'arcy.

    I'm always puzzled why "Westminster Hour" only lasts 45 minutes. More coalition cuts?
    It usually last just 35 minutes as they have 10 minutes of national news at the start. Westminster Half Hour should be the correct label.
  • Mr. Indigo, I contacted HMRC, Amazon and Smashwords about this. All seemed to say that Amazon and Smashwords (best place for royalties, but mostly about distribution) would handle VAT stuff. It seems very likely to be true for Amazon and probably for Smashwords.

    But, as you say, if things turn out differently it'll be me stressed out over registering for VAT in France. So, my plan is to suspend my Smashwords books, and withdraw from Amazon markets in the EU (outside the UK) and see what happens and if horror stories emerge. If not, I'll put them back up. [I may also need to increase prices as it seems the change in the law will increase the tax and reduce the royalty per e-book].
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2014
    Was Ed's dad called Wreckit Ralph? ...filthy commie...
  • The BES insights on the LDs were available in Sunday's R4 Westminster Hour programme. Unfortunately its dreary programmes attract so few PB listeners and we miss these gems.

    Why is it usually so dire? Is it the regular host Carolyn Quinn? This week the BES bit had Mark D'arcy.

    I'm always puzzled why "Westminster Hour" only lasts 45 minutes. More coalition cuts?
    It usually last just 35 minutes as they have 10 minutes of national news at the start. Westminster Half Hour should be the correct label.
    Typical politicians: overpromise and underdeliver.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    taffys said:

    Of course Miliband is going to screw over England.

    There is something in what you say, but I doubt such an agenda could carry the English MPs in his party. If the polls are any indication, many will have squeaked through in two, three or even four way marginals.

    Which is why he's rushing votes for kids through by 2016. He knows the country doesn't want his brand of socialism in honour to his father's legacy. That's why the first thing on his list will be to gerrymander the electorate so that kids can vote. He knows this is a group that has generally never paid taxes, has had their heads filled with the ideas of left-wing teaching unions, but haven't had contact with the real world so that their wooly social democracy gets mugged by reality. They are the perfect group to give him the votes to get him over the line next time, even if he is rejected by the adult population in short order this time. The worst part of all is that he'll use the SNP to screw over the English with this.

    No doubt he'll also try to let in more immigrants too. They, helpfully, aren't connected to Ralph's hated groups and values: "Eton and Harrow, Oxford and Cambridge, the great Clubs, the Times, the Church, the Army, the respectable Sunday papers... good taste, don't rock the boat" etc.
    There's a delicious irony to what voting UKIP will achieve at GE 2015. More of what they despise.
    Voting UKIP at GE 2015 will give them a much greater chance of breaking through in 2020. And, while I dislike Cameron less than I dislike Miliband, I still dislike his governance. Miliband is now looking so bad he's got me looking at the Conservatives again, but the Tories will have to show they're offering the goods in their manifesto. If they continue to be weak on immigration and civil liberties then the country is screwed both ways.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Indigo said:

    Socrates said:

    Which is why he's rushing votes for kids through by 2016. He knows the country doesn't want his brand of socialism in honour to his father's legacy. That's why the first thing on his list will be to gerrymander the electorate so that kids can vote. He knows this is a group that has generally never paid taxes, has had their heads filled with the ideas of left-wing teaching unions, but haven't had contact with the real world so that their wooly social democracy gets mugged by reality. They are the perfect group to give him the votes to get him over the line next time, even if he is rejected by the adult population in short order this time. .

    The flaw in his plan is obvious, and makes it immediately clear he doesn't have any teenage kids. What is the turnout going to be like ? GOTV ? Dont make me laugh, you can't get them out of bed, not even when there is food on the table, never mind if it involves a brisk walk down the road to the local community centre. "Voting ? Woteva, thats borin..."
    The YouGov data also suggested that turnout didn’t vary greatly by age group. The youngest category of voters in their sample (those aged 16–24) had a confirmed turnout rate of 68%, which is similar to the high levels recorded among the older age cohorts, and remarkably high overall by the standards of recent British elections.
  • shadsyshadsy Posts: 289
    I bought UKIP seats at 10, but I'm not sure it's a very good bet.

    I think I was hoping that the level of optimistic looking ukip backers at Ladbrokes would be reflected in the spreads and result in the price being forced up. But perhaps SPIN have enough clients willing to take the other side to prevent that happening. Not many people are going to take our 1/8 about them getting under 29.5 with five months to go.

    It's also a stupid hedge for me, as a really good ukip performance might end up with me looking for a new job, so the winnings could come in handy.

  • On balance, I'm in favour of giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote. The idea that it's going to correct the current disengagement with democracy is, however, far-fetched.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    antifrank said:

    On balance, I'm in favour of giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote.

    Why?

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited December 2014
    antifrank said:

    On balance, I'm in favour of giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote. The idea that it's going to correct the current disengagement with democracy is, however, far-fetched.

    No representation without taxation! (Another reason why I would prefer a low starter rate for income tax, like the 10% one that GB scrapped rather than a high threshold. If people dont pay at least some tax, they are removed from the responsibility of electing a government that is sensible with money).

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    BIRMINGHAM, England — As a Sikh and second-generation Briton running a public school made up mostly of Muslim students, Balwant Bains was at the center of the issues facing multicultural Britain, including the perennial question of balancing religious precepts and cultural identity against assimilation.

    But in January, Mr. Bains stepped down as the principal of the Saltley School and Specialist Science College, saying he could no longer do the job in the face of relentless criticism from the Muslim-dominated school board. It had pressed him, unsuccessfully, to replace some courses with Islamic and Arabic studies, segregate girls and boys and drop a citizenship class on tolerance and democracy in Britain.

    “I suppose I was a threat, giving these children more British values, for them to be integrated into society,” Mr. Bains said in his first interview since the controversy over his departure.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/08/world/british-principal-who-resigned-believes-he-was-seen-as-a-threat.html?_r=1

    Man, this country is screwed.
  • Bobajob_Bobajob_ Posts: 195
    antifrank said:

    On balance, I'm in favour of giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote. The idea that it's going to correct the current disengagement with democracy is, however, far-fetched.

    I can't understand the ludicrous whining about it. It's an excellent proposal: if they are old enough to have sex and serve in the military, they are old enough to have a say in the government. We no doubt had the same whining when the age was reduced from 21.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Socrates said:

    taffys said:

    Of course Miliband is going to screw over England.

    There is something in what you say, but I doubt such an agenda could carry the English MPs in his party. If the polls are any indication, many will have squeaked through in two, three or even four way marginals.

    Which is why he's rushing votes for kids through by 2016. He knows the country doesn't want his brand of socialism in honour to his father's legacy. That's why the first thing on his list will be to gerrymander the electorate so that kids can vote. He knows this is a group that has generally never paid taxes, has had their heads filled with the ideas of left-wing teaching unions, but haven't had contact with the real world so that their wooly social democracy gets mugged by reality. They are the perfect group to give him the votes to get him over the line next time, even if he is rejected by the adult population in short order this time. The worst part of all is that he'll use the SNP to screw over the English with this.

    No doubt he'll also try to let in more immigrants too. They, helpfully, aren't connected to Ralph's hated groups and values: "Eton and Harrow, Oxford and Cambridge, the great Clubs, the Times, the Church, the Army, the respectable Sunday papers... good taste, don't rock the boat" etc.
    There's a delicious irony to what voting UKIP will achieve at GE 2015. More of what they despise.
    Yes, either Cameron or Miliband as PM
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    antifrank said:

    On balance, I'm in favour of giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote.

    Why?

    I can't see the case myself.

    We are about to move to compulsory education/training until the age of 18 anyway. So there will be fewer under 18s in employment. With regards to 16 year olds being able to get married and serve in the Armed Forces - well that is quite easy to fix. Remove the right to marry at the age of 16 with parental consent - and only allow people to join the services once they are 18.

    We should be doing more to preserve childhood rather than rushing young people into adulthood.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Socrates said:

    BIRMINGHAM, England — As a Sikh and second-generation Briton running a public school made up mostly of Muslim students, Balwant Bains was at the center of the issues facing multicultural Britain, including the perennial question of balancing religious precepts and cultural identity against assimilation.

    But in January, Mr. Bains stepped down as the principal of the Saltley School and Specialist Science College, saying he could no longer do the job in the face of relentless criticism from the Muslim-dominated school board. It had pressed him, unsuccessfully, to replace some courses with Islamic and Arabic studies, segregate girls and boys and drop a citizenship class on tolerance and democracy in Britain.

    “I suppose I was a threat, giving these children more British values, for them to be integrated into society,” Mr. Bains said in his first interview since the controversy over his departure.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/08/world/british-principal-who-resigned-believes-he-was-seen-as-a-threat.html?_r=1

    Man, this country is screwed.

    Just when you think it might be safe to vote Tory.... ;-)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033
    Bobajob_ said:

    antifrank said:

    On balance, I'm in favour of giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote. The idea that it's going to correct the current disengagement with democracy is, however, far-fetched.

    I can't understand the ludicrous whining about it. It's an excellent proposal: if they are old enough to have sex and serve in the military, they are old enough to have a say in the government. We no doubt had the same whining when the age was reduced from 21.
    Barbaric that the drinking age is still 18! ;)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    It's going to be a complete mess whatever happens but my guess would be a Lab-SNP coalition in which Labour agrees to f>ck England for even more free money for Scotland, in return for all of Scotland remaining Labour-supporting rotten boroughs.

    Why, why, why could those useless Scotch pr>cks not have won their stupid referendum and cleared off. They could be well on their way to turning into North Korea by now while the rest of us laugh and elect a sensible government.

    Lunatics escaped I see
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    edited December 2014
    I would be in favour of raising the age to 21. Experience and maturity are vital to informed decisions, plus the development time of the human brain all argue in favour.
  • Bobajob_ said:

    antifrank said:

    On balance, I'm in favour of giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote. The idea that it's going to correct the current disengagement with democracy is, however, far-fetched.

    I can't understand the ludicrous whining about it. It's an excellent proposal: if they are old enough to have sex and serve in the military, they are old enough to have a say in the government. We no doubt had the same whining when the age was reduced from 21.
    I think almost everyone would freely admit that they were an idiot, or at least more idiotic, at the age of 16, in a sane world the voting age would be raised to 25.
  • antifrank said:

    On balance, I'm in favour of giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote.

    Why?

    There's no magic age at which people reach political maturity. Generally the views of younger people are under-represented in politics because they engage less, so if politicians have to pay more attention to the younger generation, that would be no bad thing. Those 16 and 17 year olds that value their vote will cast it, while those who don't will normally not.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    On balance, I'm in favour of giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote.

    Why?

    There's no magic age at which people reach political maturity. Generally the views of younger people are under-represented in politics because they engage less, so if politicians have to pay more attention to the younger generation, that would be no bad thing. Those 16 and 17 year olds that value their vote will cast it, while those who don't will normally not.
    So being legally a minor is beside the point then ?
  • Indigo said:

    antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    On balance, I'm in favour of giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote.

    Why?

    There's no magic age at which people reach political maturity. Generally the views of younger people are under-represented in politics because they engage less, so if politicians have to pay more attention to the younger generation, that would be no bad thing. Those 16 and 17 year olds that value their vote will cast it, while those who don't will normally not.
    So being legally a minor is beside the point then ?
    That begs the question.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Indigo said:

    Socrates said:

    BIRMINGHAM, England — As a Sikh and second-generation Briton running a public school made up mostly of Muslim students, Balwant Bains was at the center of the issues facing multicultural Britain, including the perennial question of balancing religious precepts and cultural identity against assimilation.

    But in January, Mr. Bains stepped down as the principal of the Saltley School and Specialist Science College, saying he could no longer do the job in the face of relentless criticism from the Muslim-dominated school board. It had pressed him, unsuccessfully, to replace some courses with Islamic and Arabic studies, segregate girls and boys and drop a citizenship class on tolerance and democracy in Britain.

    “I suppose I was a threat, giving these children more British values, for them to be integrated into society,” Mr. Bains said in his first interview since the controversy over his departure.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/08/world/british-principal-who-resigned-believes-he-was-seen-as-a-threat.html?_r=1

    Man, this country is screwed.

    Just when you think it might be safe to vote Tory.... ;-)
    True, true. The Tories aren't even prepared to properly step in when thousands of kids are getting raped by Muslims. They certainly won't bother doing anything to stop the Islamicisation of schools in a big way.
  • Bobajob_Bobajob_ Posts: 195
    Morris
    Ozzy has already signed off on City-regional govt for Greater Manchester. A. What's artificial about it? and B. Why should London get it and not other cities?
  • antifrank said:

    On balance, I'm in favour of giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote. The idea that it's going to correct the current disengagement with democracy is, however, far-fetched.

    I'd give everyone a vote, with the proviso that their parents cast it on their behalf up to 18. Clearly the parents can take their child's wishes into account when they are mature enough. Not sure about a solution where the parents disagree, though. Half-votes feels thoroughly un-British.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Probably too much to ask for science to inform us on the appropriate voting age but 25 makes more sense than 18.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24173194
  • Bobajob_Bobajob_ Posts: 195
    I know a few five year olds that are brighter than a few 60 year olds
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    “But I never got a single congratulation” from the school’s governing board, a mix of elected parents and other people from the community and members appointed to represent the staff and the local government, Mr. Bains said. “It was emotional harassment.”

    The chairman of the governing board took to challenging his day-to-day decision making, Mr. Bains said. In one instance he was required to justify every decision he made during a three-month period, Mr. Bains said, including why he had students walk on the right side of the corridor instead of the left, what he said at assemblies and why he made changes to the school website. He had to print and distribute the resulting 300-page document to each of the 15 members of the governing board.

    When a student threatened six classmates with a knife, he expelled the boy, a Muslim, in a decision supported by parents and the local authority. But governors reinstated the boy. Because Mr. Bains did not suspend another student, a white boy who had surrendered the weapon, talk spread among staff that he was racist and Islamophobic. He discovered a Facebook post and text messages calling on parents and students to protest against him, he said, and later learned that the message had even been circulated among local mosques.


    Conservative Muslims are trying to take over our schools and local governments from Birmingham to Tower Hamlets to teach their exclusionary, intolerant, hateful view of the world. And supposed liberals either do nothing, or criticise those drawing attention to it.
  • Mr. Ajob, I was dead against that.

    I'm not speaking of mayors. I'm speaking of England getting devolution. The equivalent of a Scottish Parliament isn't a Mancunian Mayoralty.

    The only way we can get equality is with an English Parliament (English votes for English laws is a sound first step).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033
    FalseFlag said:

    Probably too much to ask for science to inform us on the appropriate voting age but 25 makes more sense than 18.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24173194

    We really are the lamest species if it takes us 25 years to mature!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033
    Socrates said:

    Indigo said:

    Socrates said:

    BIRMINGHAM, England — As a Sikh and second-generation Briton running a public school made up mostly of Muslim students, Balwant Bains was at the center of the issues facing multicultural Britain, including the perennial question of balancing religious precepts and cultural identity against assimilation.

    But in January, Mr. Bains stepped down as the principal of the Saltley School and Specialist Science College, saying he could no longer do the job in the face of relentless criticism from the Muslim-dominated school board. It had pressed him, unsuccessfully, to replace some courses with Islamic and Arabic studies, segregate girls and boys and drop a citizenship class on tolerance and democracy in Britain.

    “I suppose I was a threat, giving these children more British values, for them to be integrated into society,” Mr. Bains said in his first interview since the controversy over his departure.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/08/world/british-principal-who-resigned-believes-he-was-seen-as-a-threat.html?_r=1

    Man, this country is screwed.

    Just when you think it might be safe to vote Tory.... ;-)
    True, true. The Tories aren't even prepared to properly step in when thousands of kids are getting raped by Muslims. They certainly won't bother doing anything to stop the Islamicisation of schools in a big way.
    Is this a problem with the system of school governors? They seem to have got themselves a pretty radical bunch of people on that board.
  • Mr. Socrates, I share your sentiments entirely, but best not to refer to them as conservative Muslims, I would suggest. Conservative sounds like reasonable and traditional. These people are insular, zealous bigots with no interest in integration.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033
    Bobajob_ said:

    I know a few five year olds that are brighter than a few 60 year olds

    So an IQ threshold would be preferred?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    "Russell says, if you look at Lib Dem spending patterns, surprising amounts are being spent in some seats, but not the next door ones.

    Some of their choices are surprising.

    Portsmouth South is one they are not hopeful of retaining. And they won’t fight Gordon very hard, he suggests.

    But a seat like Hazel Grove will be interesting. Andrew Stunnell is standing down, he says. The Lib Dems are not spending much money there. But they are spending money in a next door seat, he says."

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2014/dec/09/british-election-study-conference-politics-live-blog#block-5487121ee4b02f79feb619d1
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Voting age can be 16, it won't change much in reality as 16-17 yr olds will have the worst turnout of all ages. As Antifrank says the politically interested ones will vote.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    RobD said:

    Socrates said:

    Indigo said:

    Socrates said:

    BIRMINGHAM, England — As a Sikh and second-generation Briton running a public school made up mostly of Muslim students, Balwant Bains was at the center of the issues facing multicultural Britain, including the perennial question of balancing religious precepts and cultural identity against assimilation.

    But in January, Mr. Bains stepped down as the principal of the Saltley School and Specialist Science College, saying he could no longer do the job in the face of relentless criticism from the Muslim-dominated school board. It had pressed him, unsuccessfully, to replace some courses with Islamic and Arabic studies, segregate girls and boys and drop a citizenship class on tolerance and democracy in Britain.

    “I suppose I was a threat, giving these children more British values, for them to be integrated into society,” Mr. Bains said in his first interview since the controversy over his departure.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/08/world/british-principal-who-resigned-believes-he-was-seen-as-a-threat.html?_r=1

    Man, this country is screwed.

    Just when you think it might be safe to vote Tory.... ;-)
    True, true. The Tories aren't even prepared to properly step in when thousands of kids are getting raped by Muslims. They certainly won't bother doing anything to stop the Islamicisation of schools in a big way.
    Is this a problem with the system of school governors? They seem to have got themselves a pretty radical bunch of people on that board.
    Nicky Morgan was put in to replace Gove specifically to be someone that doesn't rock the boat, and to eased back on any of the changes that might be in danger of offending anyone, so dont bank on anything useful happening there.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Indigo said:

    Socrates said:

    BIRMINGHAM, England — As a Sikh and second-generation Briton running a public school made up mostly of Muslim students, Balwant Bains was at the center of the issues facing multicultural Britain, including the perennial question of balancing religious precepts and cultural identity against assimilation.

    But in January, Mr. Bains stepped down as the principal of the Saltley School and Specialist Science College, saying he could no longer do the job in the face of relentless criticism from the Muslim-dominated school board. It had pressed him, unsuccessfully, to replace some courses with Islamic and Arabic studies, segregate girls and boys and drop a citizenship class on tolerance and democracy in Britain.

    “I suppose I was a threat, giving these children more British values, for them to be integrated into society,” Mr. Bains said in his first interview since the controversy over his departure.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/08/world/british-principal-who-resigned-believes-he-was-seen-as-a-threat.html?_r=1

    Man, this country is screwed.

    Just when you think it might be safe to vote Tory.... ;-)
    Whats this got to do with voting tory. The school is under inspection from Ofsted and the local authority - its Lab controlled. Your comment might be better adressed to Liam Byrne
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited December 2014
    antifrank said:

    Pragmatically, I would work on the basis of "not". The Metric Martyrs went uncrucified.

    Yes, that's my view. Quite apart from anything else, something tells me that the very last thing the Commission or the government want is a court case revolving around the question of the extent to which their ludicrous rules make it too much hassle for small companies to trade in the Single Market.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    RobD said:

    Socrates said:

    Indigo said:

    Socrates said:

    BIRMINGHAM, England — As a Sikh and second-generation Briton running a public school made up mostly of Muslim students, Balwant Bains was at the center of the issues facing multicultural Britain, including the perennial question of balancing religious precepts and cultural identity against assimilation.

    But in January, Mr. Bains stepped down as the principal of the Saltley School and Specialist Science College, saying he could no longer do the job in the face of relentless criticism from the Muslim-dominated school board. It had pressed him, unsuccessfully, to replace some courses with Islamic and Arabic studies, segregate girls and boys and drop a citizenship class on tolerance and democracy in Britain.

    “I suppose I was a threat, giving these children more British values, for them to be integrated into society,” Mr. Bains said in his first interview since the controversy over his departure.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/08/world/british-principal-who-resigned-believes-he-was-seen-as-a-threat.html?_r=1

    Man, this country is screwed.

    Just when you think it might be safe to vote Tory.... ;-)
    True, true. The Tories aren't even prepared to properly step in when thousands of kids are getting raped by Muslims. They certainly won't bother doing anything to stop the Islamicisation of schools in a big way.
    Is this a problem with the system of school governors? They seem to have got themselves a pretty radical bunch of people on that board.
    Yes. All the non-Muslim governors left. There was a deliberate campaign of hostility and intimidation to the non-Muslim headteacher among the wider community, including the board of governors, local community associations and local mosques.

    We need to stop letting people like this in our country.
  • Bobajob_Bobajob_ Posts: 195
    Morris - you were against City-regional mayors for London and Manc? Why?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033
    Indigo said:

    RobD said:

    Socrates said:

    Indigo said:

    Socrates said:

    BIRMINGHAM, England — As a Sikh and second-generation Briton running a public school made up mostly of Muslim students, Balwant Bains was at the center of the issues facing multicultural Britain, including the perennial question of balancing religious precepts and cultural identity against assimilation.

    But in January, Mr. Bains stepped down as the principal of the Saltley School and Specialist Science College, saying he could no longer do the job in the face of relentless criticism from the Muslim-dominated school board. It had pressed him, unsuccessfully, to replace some courses with Islamic and Arabic studies, segregate girls and boys and drop a citizenship class on tolerance and democracy in Britain.

    “I suppose I was a threat, giving these children more British values, for them to be integrated into society,” Mr. Bains said in his first interview since the controversy over his departure.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/08/world/british-principal-who-resigned-believes-he-was-seen-as-a-threat.html?_r=1

    Man, this country is screwed.

    Just when you think it might be safe to vote Tory.... ;-)
    True, true. The Tories aren't even prepared to properly step in when thousands of kids are getting raped by Muslims. They certainly won't bother doing anything to stop the Islamicisation of schools in a big way.
    Is this a problem with the system of school governors? They seem to have got themselves a pretty radical bunch of people on that board.
    Nicky Morgan was put in to replace Gove specifically to be someone that doesn't rock the boat, and to eased back on any of the changes that might be in danger of offending anyone, so dont bank on anything useful happening there.
    Well, I don't think we'll be seeing any major reforms on anything between now and the election. Not saying nothing can be done after the election!
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    What's embarrassing is that we need the foreign media to report on this stuff, because our own media is so spineless at standing up to conservative Muslims.
This discussion has been closed.