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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Rochester betting: Although UKIP looks a near certainty the

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited November 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Rochester betting: Although UKIP looks a near certainty there are still some interesting markets

I like the SPIN spread market. If you think UKIP will secure more than 44.5% of the vote and bet £10 a unit then you win that amount for each percentage point above that level that they achieve. Your risk losing on the same formula for every 1% point they get below 44.5%

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • I reckon we're on course for another defector
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I reckon we're on course for another defector

    You should defect to the Cheating First Comment Party !

  • I reckon we're on course for another defector

    To quote June Whitfield in Absolutely Fabulous: "just the one?".
  • You have forgotten to take the spread into account, sell price is 43
  • antifrank said:

    I reckon we're on course for another defector

    To quote June Whitfield in Absolutely Fabulous: "just the one?".
    At least one.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    I reckon we're on course for another defector

    If I were UKIP, I'd be disappointed if a Reckless win did not encourage others. As time ticks on, it would only be natural for MPs to think more and more about their GE chances. The only question is whether that makes them more or less likely to defect (Carswell and Reckless, by contrast, might hope to actively change the political weather).
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    I reckon we're on course for another defector

    With so many crypto-pigdogs to choose from, I am sure you are right.

    I WAS FIRST but it said "Discussion ID required", system clearly fixed in favour of insiders. I have written to my MP about this.

  • @patrick

    I didn't say 'similar' the study did and I provided a link.

    If you are interested read the study, it is poor practice to copy and paste whole articles.
  • Swiss_BobSwiss_Bob Posts: 619
    edited November 2014
    Marlene!

    Not Ed's safe word.
  • Mr. X, I get that sometimes.
  • Ishmael_X said:

    I reckon we're on course for another defector

    With so many crypto-pigdogs to choose from, I am sure you are right.

    I WAS FIRST but it said "Discussion ID required", system clearly fixed in favour of insiders. I have written to my MP about this.

    Me too, some ego massaging going on!
  • Mr. England, we clearly need an independent, judge-led inquiry into this.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    I'm buying UKIP at £2 a point here.
  • Grandiose said:

    I reckon we're on course for another defector

    If I were UKIP, I'd be disappointed if a Reckless win did not encourage others. As time ticks on, it would only be natural for MPs to think more and more about their GE chances. The only question is whether that makes them more or less likely to defect (Carswell and Reckless, by contrast, might hope to actively change the political weather).
    Apparently the defectors, in not so safe/UKIP friendly seats, now know they don't need to trigger a by-election, as not to leave their constituents without an MP.

    http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/11/17/seats-could-be-left-vacant-if-more-tory-mps-defect-to-ukip-befor/
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    It's fun to see the last gasps of a Tory by-election machine include:
    Vote Tory or your house price will fall.
    Vote Tory or the non-Tory gets in.
    Vote Tory we have a local woman.
    Vote Tory we haven't been to Oxford.
    Vote Tory the PM says so.
    Vote Tory please we beg you!

    And now: Vote Tory or once we leave the EU, EU migrants would need a visa or residence permit like all the other immigrants.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Mr. England, we clearly need an independent, judge-led inquiry into this.

    Commentgate set to run and run.

  • O/T - Alex Massie has done a Parris/D'Ancona in the house style of the New Statesman:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/neither-the-tories-nor-ukip-deserve-to-win-the-rochester-by-election/
  • It's not my fault you're not as quick as me.

    And I too have had the discussion ID required problem in the past.
  • Oooh what a zinger from Dave.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Ed having another stinker at PMQs

  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    It's not my fault you're not as quick as me.

    I bet you say that to all the girls.

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    On record, I say that the reaction to Reckless's comments is as usual all froth, because it makes sense to everybody that once you leave the EU, EU immigrants will have to be treated equally as all the other immigrants.

    If the Tory party wasn't so desperate no one would have made it an issue in the press, but as usual with last ditch attempts they "attack first think later" as was with house prices and the unspecified instability line from the PM.
  • Ishmael_X said:

    It's not my fault you're not as quick as me.

    I bet you say that to all the girls.

    All the time.

    It's not my fault you can't keep up with my pace.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Ouch, that was pretty humiliating. Ed is really struggling to be taken seriously and Ball's face behind him was a picture.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    O/T - Alex Massie has done a Parris/D'Ancona in the house style of the New Statesman:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/neither-the-tories-nor-ukip-deserve-to-win-the-rochester-by-election/

    It's the modern equivalent of the view expressed by the Labour Left in the 1980s that "on no account must you be prepared to compromise with the voters."

  • Anyone care to give a brief summary of PMQs?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    antifrank said:

    I reckon we're on course for another defector

    To quote June Whitfield in Absolutely Fabulous: "just the one?".
    There are ongoing talks with several (according to a prominent Kipper I had dinner with last night. There may or may not be defections, but there is also a view that some of them can serve the UKIP cause better within the Conservative Party.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    “Most people I know here have worked hard their lives, played by the rules and paid their fair share, but we sometimes struggle to access the services we need because of uncontrolled immigration. Others don’t feel safe walking down the high street of our town."

    BNP ? UKIP ?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Patrick said:

    Anyone care to give a brief summary of PMQs?

    Very shouty no score draw
  • Sean_F said:

    antifrank said:

    I reckon we're on course for another defector

    To quote June Whitfield in Absolutely Fabulous: "just the one?".
    There are ongoing talks with several (according to a prominent Kipper I had dinner with last night. There may or may not be defections, but there is also a view that some of them can serve the UKIP cause better within the Conservative Party.
    Well of course - the fifth columnists have done UKIP proud to date.
  • Patrick said:

    Anyone care to give a brief summary of PMQs?

    Ed: Dave you're a posh boy arristo on the side of millionaires.

    Dave: Ed you're so crap, you got your bottom spanked by pop a star and the polls say you're crap, more people believe in the Loch Ness monster than believe you are a good leader, the bad news for Labour, Ed Miliband really does exist.
  • Mr. F, will those MPs have no UKIP opposition at the General Election? That'd be rather a give away, but opposing them could harm their electoral prospects, which wouldn't be a fitting reward.
  • DavidL said:

    Ouch, that was pretty humiliating. Ed is really struggling to be taken seriously and Ball's face behind him was a picture.

    Alternatively, from the Guardian:

    "12:16 Snap PMQs verdict: If you swallowed some of the reporting of Miliband’s Myleee Klass moment, I suppose you might be impressed by Cameron’s rubbishing of the Labour leader, but Cameron was particularly weak on policy today and Miliband comfortably won on substance."
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    edited November 2014
    Bad tactic for Cameron to be seen so obviously coming to the defence of millionaire pop stars.

    Disastrous actually.
  • Scott_P said:

    Patrick said:

    Anyone care to give a brief summary of PMQs?

    Very shouty no score draw
    Agree - the next election Labour strategy on show - "Bedroom tax vs mansion tax!" and "Save the NHS" (no, not in Wales, don't mention Wales, its got nothing to do with Wales, just STFU about Wales will you?)
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Patrick said:

    Anyone care to give a brief summary of PMQs?

    ed pwned and outKlassed by Cam in Flashman bully mode. bedroom, mansion tax.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Patrick said:

    Anyone care to give a brief summary of PMQs?

    Ed: Dave you're a posh boy arristo on the side of millionaires.

    Dave: Ed you're so crap, you got your bottom spanked by pop a star and the polls say you're crap, more people believe in the Loch Ness monster than believe you are a good leader, the bad news for Labour, Ed Miliband really does exist.
    Or Ed asks about the Mansion tax the bedroom tax cancer waiting targets been missed for 3 successive quarters

    Dave answers with pre-prepared jokes about Ed is Crap and doesnt answer any of the questions.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    BenM said:

    Bad tactic for Cameron to be seen so obviously coming to the defence of millionaire pop stars.

    Disastrous actually.

    How do you figure that... the millionaires and more importantly want-to-be-millionaires vote for Dave remember, in a Labour leader it would have been a disaster, in a Tory, less so.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    I don't watch pmqs, ever - but it's difficult to take the summaries here that seriously. There is a dreadful amount of bias here normally.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    Scott_P said:

    Patrick said:

    Anyone care to give a brief summary of PMQs?

    Very shouty no score draw
    Agree - the next election Labour strategy on show - "Bedroom tax vs mansion tax!" and "Save the NHS" (no, not in Wales, don't mention Wales, its got nothing to do with Wales, just STFU about Wales will you?)
    Tories still trying to flog that dead horse?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    antifrank said:

    DavidL said:

    Ouch, that was pretty humiliating. Ed is really struggling to be taken seriously and Ball's face behind him was a picture.

    Alternatively, from the Guardian:

    "12:16 Snap PMQs verdict: If you swallowed some of the reporting of Miliband’s Myleee Klass moment, I suppose you might be impressed by Cameron’s rubbishing of the Labour leader, but Cameron was particularly weak on policy today and Miliband comfortably won on substance."
    On the bedroom tax (the tories have lost the description fight) he pointed out that the discretionary funds were underspent to date.
    On the NHS he actually did ok pointing out the extra money, nurses, and doctors and what a mess Wales was. Ed pointed to local problems as the opposition always do.
    On the Mansion tax he pointed out that the rich are paying a lot more stamp duty, more tax generally and were paying more for empty properties.

    The only point Ed made that had any substance was the claim that victims of domestic violence were somehow being affected by the bedroom tax although it was not immediately clear how.
  • David Cameron, Nigel Farage and other party leaders will be separately grilled by younger voters in a series of live streamed discussions to be distributed online by ITV News and YouTube channel Bite News.

    The prime minister, Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg, Labour’s Ed Miliband, Ukip’s Farage and the Green’s Natalie Bennett will appear on their own and be quizzed in front of studio audiences in the five debates taking place between 26 November and 16 December.

    The Leaders Live discussions have been organised by Bite the Ballot, which campaigns for young people to vote, ITV News and Bite News. They will be presented by Rick Edwards, host of BBC3’s current affairs discussion show Free Speech, and streamed live by ITV News, Bite News and on the Leaders Live website.

    The audience will include singer Eliza Doolittle, Bite News owner Jamal Edwards and influential YouTubers, including Hannah Witton and Harry Hitchens.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/19/itv-news-party-leaders-live
  • Mr. Owls, pre-prepared? That warrants a savaging by enormo-haddock.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Sean_F said:

    O/T - Alex Massie has done a Parris/D'Ancona in the house style of the New Statesman:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/neither-the-tories-nor-ukip-deserve-to-win-the-rochester-by-election/

    It's the modern equivalent of the view expressed by the Labour Left in the 1980s that "on no account must you be prepared to compromise with the voters."

    He should cheer up, despite some murmurings of concern British people are well on track to be a minority in their own country within 40 years.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    PMQs Ed is crrap "comfortably won on substance."
  • BenM said:

    Scott_P said:

    Patrick said:

    Anyone care to give a brief summary of PMQs?

    Very shouty no score draw
    Agree - the next election Labour strategy on show - "Bedroom tax vs mansion tax!" and "Save the NHS" (no, not in Wales, don't mention Wales, its got nothing to do with Wales, just STFU about Wales will you?)
    Tories still trying to flog that dead horse?
    Can't you read? Just STFU about Wales!

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167

    Patrick said:

    Anyone care to give a brief summary of PMQs?

    Ed: Dave you're a posh boy arristo on the side of millionaires.

    Dave: Ed you're so crap, you got your bottom spanked by pop a star and the polls say you're crap, more people believe in the Loch Ness monster than believe you are a good leader, the bad news for Labour, Ed Miliband really does exist.
    Or Ed asks about the Mansion tax the bedroom tax cancer waiting targets been missed for 3 successive quarters

    Dave answers with pre-prepared jokes about Ed is Crap and doesnt answer any of the questions.
    The PM also threw in a few of what used to be termed "tractor stats" when his predecessor was in office. Funny how the Tories don't castigate Mr Cameron for using the same approach to non-answering questions.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Douglas Carswell MP retweeted
    Isabel Hardman ‏@IsabelHardman 11m11 minutes ago
    Is Myleene Klass getting cross really the best Cameron has got?! #pmqs
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    David Cameron, Nigel Farage and other party leaders will be separately grilled by younger voters in a series of live streamed discussions to be distributed online by ITV News and YouTube channel Bite News.

    The prime minister, Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg, Labour’s Ed Miliband, Ukip’s Farage and the Green’s Natalie Bennett will appear on their own and be quizzed in front of studio audiences in the five debates taking place between 26 November and 16 December.

    The Leaders Live discussions have been organised by Bite the Ballot, which campaigns for young people to vote, ITV News and Bite News. They will be presented by Rick Edwards, host of BBC3’s current affairs discussion show Free Speech, and streamed live by ITV News, Bite News and on the Leaders Live website.

    The audience will include singer Eliza Doolittle, Bite News owner Jamal Edwards and influential YouTubers, including Hannah Witton and Harry Hitchens.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/19/itv-news-party-leaders-live

    Fair play to Farage for heading to what one would assume is naturally hostile territory.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @alstewitn: #PMQs Where does 'One Direction' stand on the mansion tax? Just asking...
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    An interesting comment that will no doubt leave some here frothing at its outrageous nature and implicit racism,

    "“Most people I know here have worked hard their lives, played by the rules and paid their fair share, but we sometimes struggle to access the services we need because of uncontrolled immigration. Others don’t feel safe walking down the high street of our town."

    Got your outrage going, Mr. Eagles? The quote is, I am told, from the Conservative candidate in the Rochester and Strood by-election. Miss Tolhurst is also it would appear deeply concerned about the effects uncontrolled immigration has had on the Constituency,

    “I wanted to bring the prime minister to this constituency to show him that uncontrolled immigration has hurt this area. I told him we need action, not just talk.”

    I don't know about you but that such sentiments are being expressed by the Conservative Party candidate does make me wonder.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/neither-the-tories-nor-ukip-deserve-to-win-the-rochester-by-election/
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    PBTories out of touch again


    @IsabelHardman · 10m 10 minutes ago

    Is Myleene Klass getting cross really the best Cameron has got?! #pmqs
  • Pulpstar said:

    David Cameron, Nigel Farage and other party leaders will be separately grilled by younger voters in a series of live streamed discussions to be distributed online by ITV News and YouTube channel Bite News.

    The prime minister, Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg, Labour’s Ed Miliband, Ukip’s Farage and the Green’s Natalie Bennett will appear on their own and be quizzed in front of studio audiences in the five debates taking place between 26 November and 16 December.

    The Leaders Live discussions have been organised by Bite the Ballot, which campaigns for young people to vote, ITV News and Bite News. They will be presented by Rick Edwards, host of BBC3’s current affairs discussion show Free Speech, and streamed live by ITV News, Bite News and on the Leaders Live website.

    The audience will include singer Eliza Doolittle, Bite News owner Jamal Edwards and influential YouTubers, including Hannah Witton and Harry Hitchens.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/19/itv-news-party-leaders-live

    Fair play to Farage for heading to what one would assume is naturally hostile territory.
    I wonder whether one of the side-effects of the rise of UKIP might be that younger voters might be more likely to vote than in previous elections, given the antipathy among many of them to UKIP.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Scott_P said:

    @alstewitn: #PMQs Where does 'One Direction' stand on the mansion tax? Just asking...

    You'll have to ask their tax advisers.
  • PMQs Ed is crrap "comfortably won on substance."

    There wasn't much substance on either side - Miliband had a point about domestic violence & the bedroom tax - but didn't mention the council involved, presumably because its Labour and hasn't used the discretionary funds it has. Cameron had tractor stats on Doctors & Nurses.....score draw.
  • Sean_F said:

    O/T - Alex Massie has done a Parris/D'Ancona in the house style of the New Statesman:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/neither-the-tories-nor-ukip-deserve-to-win-the-rochester-by-election/

    It's the modern equivalent of the view expressed by the Labour Left in the 1980s that "on no account must you be prepared to compromise with the voters."

    I feel myself separating more and more from people who I'd always assumed to be my political allies and comrades my whole life.

    I find it actually makes me quite sad.
  • DavidL said:

    antifrank said:

    DavidL said:

    Ouch, that was pretty humiliating. Ed is really struggling to be taken seriously and Ball's face behind him was a picture.

    Alternatively, from the Guardian:

    "12:16 Snap PMQs verdict: If you swallowed some of the reporting of Miliband’s Myleee Klass moment, I suppose you might be impressed by Cameron’s rubbishing of the Labour leader, but Cameron was particularly weak on policy today and Miliband comfortably won on substance."
    The only point Ed made that had any substance was the claim that victims of domestic violence were somehow being affected by the bedroom tax although it was not immediately clear how.
    According to the BBC – some people with abusive and violent partners use the spare bedroom as a ‘panic room’ to hide in allegedly. – I think there are lawyers writing up papers on the case as we speak.
  • DavidL said:

    antifrank said:

    DavidL said:

    Ouch, that was pretty humiliating. Ed is really struggling to be taken seriously and Ball's face behind him was a picture.

    Alternatively, from the Guardian:

    "12:16 Snap PMQs verdict: If you swallowed some of the reporting of Miliband’s Myleee Klass moment, I suppose you might be impressed by Cameron’s rubbishing of the Labour leader, but Cameron was particularly weak on policy today and Miliband comfortably won on substance."
    The only point Ed made that had any substance was the claim that victims of domestic violence were somehow being affected by the bedroom tax although it was not immediately clear how.
    According to the BBC – some people with abusive and violent partners use the spare bedroom as a ‘panic room’ to hide in allegedly. – I think there are lawyers writing up papers on the case as we speak.
    Those cases give rise to two obvious questions:

    1) why is the abusive partner not behind bars?
    2) why is the abused partner not moved to a new area to protect her safety?

    And for that matter, how do you construct a panic room in the average council property?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    David Cameron, Nigel Farage and other party leaders will be separately grilled by younger voters in a series of live streamed discussions to be distributed online by ITV News and YouTube channel Bite News.

    The prime minister, Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg, Labour’s Ed Miliband, Ukip’s Farage and the Green’s Natalie Bennett will appear on their own and be quizzed in front of studio audiences in the five debates taking place between 26 November and 16 December.

    The Leaders Live discussions have been organised by Bite the Ballot, which campaigns for young people to vote, ITV News and Bite News. They will be presented by Rick Edwards, host of BBC3’s current affairs discussion show Free Speech, and streamed live by ITV News, Bite News and on the Leaders Live website.

    The audience will include singer Eliza Doolittle, Bite News owner Jamal Edwards and influential YouTubers, including Hannah Witton and Harry Hitchens.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/19/itv-news-party-leaders-live

    Fair play to Farage for heading to what one would assume is naturally hostile territory.
    I wonder whether one of the side-effects of the rise of UKIP might be that younger voters might be more likely to vote than in previous elections, given the antipathy among many of them to UKIP.
    If my Facebook is anything to go by, yes.

    But they will of course not bother to register and find out that you can't phone a five digit number to vote Farage out the Big Brother house.
  • O/T - Alex Massie has done a Parris/D'Ancona in the house style of the New Statesman:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/neither-the-tories-nor-ukip-deserve-to-win-the-rochester-by-election/

    Very good piece, and a sad indictment on how the intolerant can set the political agenda with impunity. Sadly LibLabCon will have learnt the lesson of Ted Heath. He fired Enoch of course - in accordance with his principles of tolerance and egalitarianism - but unleashed a maelstrom, got roundly shafted and received little but vilification for his pains.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Cameron started out as the heir to Blair, but has since suffered multiple relegations and would be lucky to meet the former PM in the early rounds of the league cup.

    A poor, poor Prime Minister. Getting embarrassing.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    So Ed asked why is bedroom tax fair doesnt get an answer

    Ed asked why is Mansion tax unfair when bedroom tax isnt doesnt get an answer

    Ed asks why has the cancer target been missed for 3 quarters running doesnt get an answer

    Ed asks why is panic room classed as a spare bedroom doesnt get an answer
  • Mr. StClare, that does seem like a legitimate exception to the rule.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Indigo said:

    BenM said:

    Bad tactic for Cameron to be seen so obviously coming to the defence of millionaire pop stars.

    Disastrous actually.

    How do you figure that... the millionaires and more importantly want-to-be-millionaires vote for Dave remember, in a Labour leader it would have been a disaster, in a Tory, less so.
    And Dave has ramped up stamp duty. An extra £4.2 million in tax of Ed's Hyde Park Penthouse compared to Labour's rates.

    Labour holed below the line.

    Same with the Empty Room Handout (private sector anomaly), same with NHS (Wales)
  • Sean_F said:

    antifrank said:

    I reckon we're on course for another defector

    To quote June Whitfield in Absolutely Fabulous: "just the one?".
    There are ongoing talks with several (according to a prominent Kipper I had dinner with last night. There may or may not be defections, but there is also a view that some of them can serve the UKIP cause better within the Conservative Party.
    I reckon defections will happen. But after 8th May.
  • An interesting comment that will no doubt leave some here frothing at its outrageous nature and implicit racism,

    "“Most people I know here have worked hard their lives, played by the rules and paid their fair share, but we sometimes struggle to access the services we need because of uncontrolled immigration. Others don’t feel safe walking down the high street of our town."

    Got your outrage going, Mr. Eagles? The quote is, I am told, from the Conservative candidate in the Rochester and Strood by-election. Miss Tolhurst is also it would appear deeply concerned about the effects uncontrolled immigration has had on the Constituency,

    “I wanted to bring the prime minister to this constituency to show him that uncontrolled immigration has hurt this area. I told him we need action, not just talk.”

    I don't know about you but that such sentiments are being expressed by the Conservative Party candidate does make me wonder.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/neither-the-tories-nor-ukip-deserve-to-win-the-rochester-by-election/

    I find nothing to get outraged about.

    Have the Tory party had to issue a clarification to say she wasn't in favour of repatriation like UKIP had to do with the pig dog traitor?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    DavidL said:

    antifrank said:

    DavidL said:

    Ouch, that was pretty humiliating. Ed is really struggling to be taken seriously and Ball's face behind him was a picture.

    Alternatively, from the Guardian:

    "12:16 Snap PMQs verdict: If you swallowed some of the reporting of Miliband’s Myleee Klass moment, I suppose you might be impressed by Cameron’s rubbishing of the Labour leader, but Cameron was particularly weak on policy today and Miliband comfortably won on substance."
    The only point Ed made that had any substance was the claim that victims of domestic violence were somehow being affected by the bedroom tax although it was not immediately clear how.
    According to the BBC – some people with abusive and violent partners use the spare bedroom as a ‘panic room’ to hide in allegedly. – I think there are lawyers writing up papers on the case as we speak.
    I think there is a court case about that at the moment. It sounds a bit far fetched to me. My understanding of a "panic room" is largely based on Hollywood but is it not supposed to be (a) a secret room that (b) the intruder does not know about and (c) is fortified in some way?

    Does this sound like your average council house bedroom to you?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    According to the BBC – some people with abusive and violent partners use the spare bedroom as a ‘panic room’ to hide in allegedly. – I think there are lawyers writing up papers on the case as we speak.

    An area that can be dealt with by local use of the discretionary funding, which local councils are not spending.

    Be interesting to see which party is running the council in question.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    tom bradby ‏@tombradby 21m21 minutes ago
    PMQs has become completely, utterly pointless. But for what it's worth, I think DC needs to watch the rudeness
  • So Ed asked why is bedroom tax fair doesnt get an answer

    Cameron did:

    i) Why is it OK for Private Sector tenants, but not for public sector tenants?
    ii) How fund money for the NHS if costs of the benefits bill keep rising?

  • Sean_F said:

    antifrank said:

    I reckon we're on course for another defector

    To quote June Whitfield in Absolutely Fabulous: "just the one?".
    There are ongoing talks with several (according to a prominent Kipper I had dinner with last night. There may or may not be defections, but there is also a view that some of them can serve the UKIP cause better within the Conservative Party.
    I reckon defections will happen. But after 8th May.
    I expect a minimum of two defections before the next election. One to fill UKIP's vacant candidate slot in Portsmouth South and one to fill the vacant slot in South Basildon & East Thurrock.
  • Background on the panic room/spare room subsidy:

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/18/panic-room-woman-challenges-bedroom-tax

    “This is exactly why we have made £345m available to councils to help vulnerable people. We understand the council have awarded a payment to make up a shortfall in rent.”
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Cameron backs the #bedroomtax but not the #mansiontax. If you’ve got big money you’ve a friend in this PM; if not, he couldn’t care less.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    antifrank said:

    DavidL said:

    Ouch, that was pretty humiliating. Ed is really struggling to be taken seriously and Ball's face behind him was a picture.

    Alternatively, from the Guardian:

    "12:16 Snap PMQs verdict: If you swallowed some of the reporting of Miliband’s Myleee Klass moment, I suppose you might be impressed by Cameron’s rubbishing of the Labour leader, but Cameron was particularly weak on policy today and Miliband comfortably won on substance."
    The only point Ed made that had any substance was the claim that victims of domestic violence were somehow being affected by the bedroom tax although it was not immediately clear how.
    According to the BBC – some people with abusive and violent partners use the spare bedroom as a ‘panic room’ to hide in allegedly. – I think there are lawyers writing up papers on the case as we speak.
    I think there is a court case about that at the moment. It sounds a bit far fetched to me. My understanding of a "panic room" is largely based on Hollywood but is it not supposed to be (a) a secret room that (b) the intruder does not know about and (c) is fortified in some way?

    Does this sound like your average council house bedroom to you?
    My thoughts exactly on hearing the report - all rather bizarre and a little overly contrived.

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    So Ed asked why is bedroom tax fair doesnt get an answer
    Ed asked why is Mansion tax unfair when bedroom tax isnt doesnt get an answer
    Ed asks why has the cancer target been missed for 3 quarters running doesnt get an answer
    Ed asks why is panic room classed as a spare bedroom doesnt get an answer

    And he wasn't expecting an answer to any of those questions, he was playing to the gallery pure and simple.
  • Cameron backs the #bedroomtax but not the #mansiontax. If you’ve got big money you’ve a friend in this PM; if not, he couldn’t care less.

    You are Ed Miliband? I claim my bacon sandwich.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited November 2014
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    antifrank said:

    DavidL said:

    Ouch, that was pretty humiliating. Ed is really struggling to be taken seriously and Ball's face behind him was a picture.

    Alternatively, from the Guardian:

    "12:16 Snap PMQs verdict: If you swallowed some of the reporting of Miliband’s Myleee Klass moment, I suppose you might be impressed by Cameron’s rubbishing of the Labour leader, but Cameron was particularly weak on policy today and Miliband comfortably won on substance."
    The only point Ed made that had any substance was the claim that victims of domestic violence were somehow being affected by the bedroom tax although it was not immediately clear how.
    According to the BBC – some people with abusive and violent partners use the spare bedroom as a ‘panic room’ to hide in allegedly. – I think there are lawyers writing up papers on the case as we speak.
    I think there is a court case about that at the moment. It sounds a bit far fetched to me. My understanding of a "panic room" is largely based on Hollywood but is it not supposed to be (a) a secret room that (b) the intruder does not know about and (c) is fortified in some way?

    Does this sound like your average council house bedroom to you?
    It could also mean somewhere else to sleep when the husband comes home after a few beers and a curry and is feeling both excessively frisky and excessively flatulent, but that doesn't sounds quite so good.

    The implication of the Guardian story is that over 4000 such reinforced panic rooms have been fitted across the country, seems a little high since no one have ever heard of such before here.
  • Cameron backs the #bedroomtax but not the #mansiontax. If you’ve got big money you’ve a friend in this PM; if not, he couldn’t care less.

    Good attack line - bereft of substance (how many low paid have the govt taken out of income tax, how much more income tax are the rich paying?) - but good politics.....

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    Cameron backs the #bedroomtax but not the #mansiontax. If you’ve got big money you’ve a friend in this PM; if not, he couldn’t care less.

    That was a strong finish. I will give him that. But Ed is looking very weak and I thought somewhat lacking in confidence today. It is getting to him.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    Sean_F said:

    O/T - Alex Massie has done a Parris/D'Ancona in the house style of the New Statesman:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/neither-the-tories-nor-ukip-deserve-to-win-the-rochester-by-election/

    It's the modern equivalent of the view expressed by the Labour Left in the 1980s that "on no account must you be prepared to compromise with the voters."

    I feel myself separating more and more from people who I'd always assumed to be my political allies and comrades my whole life.

    I find it actually makes me quite sad.
    It's a pity isn't it? Leaving the Conservative Party was a wrench. There are still plenty of people I like and trust in the Conservative Party, but they aren't at the top.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173

    Cameron backs the #bedroomtax but not the #mansiontax. If you’ve got big money you’ve a friend in this PM; if not, he couldn’t care less.

    You need to calm down dear - I know it's hard to hear your leader being out-klassed again in the H/C - I suggest you wrap yourself up in a copy of the Guardian, there's normally quite a lot of unsold copies going cheap.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Let's face it. most people are in the middle...neither affected by the bedroom tax nor the mansion tax.
  • Background on the panic room/spare room subsidy:

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/18/panic-room-woman-challenges-bedroom-tax

    “This is exactly why we have made £345m available to councils to help vulnerable people. We understand the council have awarded a payment to make up a shortfall in rent.”

    And that DWP quotation appears to have been appended a day after the article first appeared:

    'This article was amended on Wednesday 19 November to add a quote from a DWP spokesman.'

    Non story?
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    So Ed asked why is bedroom tax fair doesnt get an answer

    Cameron did:

    i) Why is it OK for Private Sector tenants, but not for public sector tenants?
    ii) How fund money for the NHS if costs of the benefits bill keep rising?

    I thought it was PMQs not LotO Qs?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Cameron backs the #bedroomtax but not the #mansiontax. If you’ve got big money you’ve a friend in this PM; if not, he couldn’t care less.

    You are Ed Miliband? I claim my bacon sandwich.
    I am having a bacon sandwich at Dirty Dicks on Friday.

    Wonder if Cameron will be too busy to crack Ed is Crap jokes by the time we meet?
  • Cameron backs the #bedroomtax but not the #mansiontax. If you’ve got big money you’ve a friend in this PM; if not, he couldn’t care less.

    If you're desperate and living in overcrowded accomodation, David Cameron in on your side. Ed Miliband is on the side of those with spare bedrooms which they don't need, and which are provided at taxpayers' expense.

    How Labour supporters claim the moral high ground and somehow manage to keep a straight face is a never-ending mystery to me.
  • BenSBenS Posts: 22
    Re. the bedroom tax case:

    It's a 'spare' room that has been reinforced and adapted by the police to be secure. This isn't just someone saying they are a bit scared - this is a woman who was raped and beaten by her ex-partner who the police judge to be at substantial risk.

    The Judicial Review case is being defended by the DWP, not the local council (as a matter of central policy all cases regarding the bedroom tax have to be discussed with the DWP by the LA, even if the LA don't want to fight the case any further - as in this this case the DWP then takes them on regardless of what the LA thinks.)

    A Discretionary Housing Payment has been awarded to cover the current shortfall, but these are limited to one year, so the JR is regarding whether DV victims should be exempt in the first place.

    @CarlottaVance - the key difference is that when Labour introduced the LHA system it only applied to new tenancies, not existing ones, whereas the Bedroom Tax has a retrospective effect of making long-standing tenancies in the social rented sector suddenly unaffordable.
  • DavidL said:

    Cameron backs the #bedroomtax but not the #mansiontax. If you’ve got big money you’ve a friend in this PM; if not, he couldn’t care less.

    That was a strong finish. I will give him that. But Ed is looking very weak and I thought somewhat lacking in confidence today. It is getting to him.
    Robinson said on the DP that the political cabinet decided yesterday that the game now is to go after Miliband relentlessly - he's 'dead, but not quite buried'......

    If only he went after him on policy......

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937

    Background on the panic room/spare room subsidy:

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/18/panic-room-woman-challenges-bedroom-tax

    “This is exactly why we have made £345m available to councils to help vulnerable people. We understand the council have awarded a payment to make up a shortfall in rent.”

    And that DWP quotation appears to have been appended a day after the article first appeared:

    'This article was amended on Wednesday 19 November to add a quote from a DWP spokesman.'

    Non story?
    Are certain Labour councils taking a very hard line on not using this 345m in order to make political capital out of the bedroom "tax"? That would be the real evil of this situation...
  • BenSBenS Posts: 22

    If you're desperate and living in overcrowded accomodation, David Cameron in on your side. Ed Miliband is on the side of those with spare bedrooms which they don't need, and which are provided at taxpayers' expense.

    Less than 5% of households affected by the Bedroom Tax have been able to downsize, whereas 59% of households affected are now in rent arrears (as at December 2013).

    Pretending that this was ever about freeing up accommodation for other households is myopic at best.

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    BenS said:

    Re. the bedroom tax case:

    It's a 'spare' room that has been reinforced and adapted by the police to be secure. This isn't just someone saying they are a bit scared - this is a woman who was raped and beaten by her ex-partner who the police judge to be at substantial risk.

    But why is she still living in the same house as someone that has raped and beaten her, and hence apparently often in terror, and why isn't he either in jail or at another location under some sort of restraining order ?
  • @DMcCaffreySKY

    Labour sources argue they only win places in like Rochester and Strood in landslides. Not when they just need a majority like 2005 and 2015.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    felix said:

    Cameron backs the #bedroomtax but not the #mansiontax. If you’ve got big money you’ve a friend in this PM; if not, he couldn’t care less.

    You need to calm down dear - I know it's hard to hear your leader being out-klassed again in the H/C - I suggest you wrap yourself up in a copy of the Guardian, there's normally quite a lot of unsold copies going cheap.
    Cameron is crap at answering questions though isnt he?

    If you really think he won PMQs you are mad.
  • BenSBenS Posts: 22
    Indigo said:

    BenS said:

    Re. the bedroom tax case:

    It's a 'spare' room that has been reinforced and adapted by the police to be secure. This isn't just someone saying they are a bit scared - this is a woman who was raped and beaten by her ex-partner who the police judge to be at substantial risk.

    But why is she still living in the same house as someone that has raped and beaten her, and hence apparently often in terror, and why isn't he either in jail or at another location under some sort of restraining order ?
    She doesn't live in the same house. However there is still a risk that he can find her and her child. I trust the police's judgement on this, and would suggest you do too.

    (And in light of your grim comment down thread about hiding from a frisky husband, you'll forgive me if I don't give your opinion on this much weight.)

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    So Ed asked why is bedroom tax fair doesnt get an answer

    Ed asked why is Mansion tax unfair when bedroom tax isnt doesnt get an answer

    Ed asks why has the cancer target been missed for 3 quarters running doesnt get an answer

    Ed asks why is panic room classed as a spare bedroom doesnt get an answer

    Why the "bedroom tax" fair? Because there is a limited amount of public resources available and they must be used in the best way possible. Someone may like a spare room, but if they don't *need* it they can't expect it on the taxpayer's dime.

    Why isn't the mansion tax fair? It's not a question of fairness or not. It's just a badly constructed tax.

    Cancer targets - who know, but targets are not necessarily the best way to manage the NHS

    Panic room - need more details. But seems dubious that they need a spare room to hide in: why not the kitchen or bathroom or bedroom if you need a room with a lockable door.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2014
    Turnout betting

    Ladbrokes have moved their under/over prices back to 5/6 the pair

    I think this (the unders) is a ridiculously good bet, not as good as SkyBet's under 50.5% but getting a bet with them is fantasyland.

    I don't see why turnout should be higher than Clacton, and the primary returns, combined with he opinion polls make it almost impossible if my sums are anywhere near right
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    @DMcCaffreySKY

    Labour sources argue they only win places in like Rochester and Strood in landslides. Not when they just need a majority like 2005 and 2015.

    @DMcCaffreySKY

    Labour sources argue they only win places in like Rochester and Strood in landslides. Not when they just need a majority like 2005 and 2015.

    Rochester & Strood (in its various incarnations) has been a classic swing seat since 1945.

    Winning c.16% in such a seat can't be spun as being of no account.
  • Test
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    edited November 2014
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    O/T - Alex Massie has done a Parris/D'Ancona in the house style of the New Statesman:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/neither-the-tories-nor-ukip-deserve-to-win-the-rochester-by-election/

    It's the modern equivalent of the view expressed by the Labour Left in the 1980s that "on no account must you be prepared to compromise with the voters."

    I feel myself separating more and more from people who I'd always assumed to be my political allies and comrades my whole life.

    I find it actually makes me quite sad.
    It's a pity isn't it? Leaving the Conservative Party was a wrench. There are still plenty of people I like and trust in the Conservative Party, but they aren't at the top.
    And the reason I am still in the Conservative Party is that there are plenty of people I don't like and don't trust in UKIP. That a good proportion of them left the Conservatives makes it it a happier home. No doubt there will be some real losses - and I count you amongst that number - but to be frank, many who have gone to UKIP were those who made me cringe inwardly with their Jurassic period attitudes....

  • State funded Panic rooms for all, along with their free owl. Eh?

    Why should the state be paying for these? What a bizarre line of questioning. Domestic violence is no laughing matter, but this crazy and tendentious line invites ridicule.

    The premise of it sounds to me as if there is a very credulous example taken of one story in one house that has been lapped up by an MP's researcher and turned into this.

This discussion has been closed.