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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The LD gain a seat from LAB but lose one to CON in this wee

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited November 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The LD gain a seat from LAB but lose one to CON in this week’s round of local elections

Queen Edith’s on Cambridge (Lab Defence)
Result: Liberal Democrats 933 (36% +1%), Labour 790 (31% -9%), Conservatives 614 (24% +5%), Green 222 (9% +3%)
Liberal Democrat GAIN from Labour with a majority of 143 (5%) on a swing of 5% from Labour to Liberal Democrat

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,054
    FPT:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The correct answer is option 3 and get to work on extradition treaties with EAW nations. If they don't like it then they can lump it. The EAW is not fit for purpose and no tinkering on the edges is going to change that. Blame Labour as much as you want, but as you said it's no use now, making the best of a bad situation still leaves us in a bad situation. It is also highly questionable that any of the changes made to the British implementation of the EAW will stand up to scrutiny by the ECJ. Better not to bother and get started on an entirely different extradition mechanism that protects British citizens from corrupt and incompetent justice systems in Europe.

    It's not the 'corrrect' answer, it's an impractical one. Our EU friends would, unsurprisingly, tell us to get stuffed, given that they have set up what they regard as a perfectly fine arrangement.
    Then we can tell them to do one. It's not that hard. Maggie did it and came back with a massive rebate. The truth is that Dave is just too weak. His need to be loved/liked is just too strong. Even when he "vetoed" the fiskalcompact he didn't actually exercise full veto powers and exclude the use of EU mechanisms and organisations to members who signed up. He wants to be liked by other members too much rather than get the best deal for British citizens which was to completely halt the EAW in the UK and properly veto the compact and force them to self-police it via enhanced co-operation and preclude them the use of the ECJ.
    And the day after he did that, the LibDems would desert him, he would lose a vote of confidence.. lose the resulting GE (as Conservatives were WAYYY behind Labour in the polls.

    The new Labour Government would rescind the VETO.

    So really clever Government action. Lose Government and not achieve anything.

    You anti Eu people really need to think through the consequences of your actions... :-)
    Don't be ridiculous. An election on the back of Dave standing up to Europe would probably have carried the Tories to a majority back then. As it was vetogasm took them into a rare polling lead, with the effects magnified during an election campaign and Dave being cast as the PM who finally stood up to the EU, well it's not an election I think Labour would have wanted to fight, nor the Lib Dems given they were hovering between 10-14 points.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    BBC News At One Story almost out of the Tin Foil Hat WWW.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30052726

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    Now project forward that increase in crowdedness another twenty or thirty years. Can you imagine what those train stations will be like in rush hour? It will be like Mumbai Central in a lot of places like Victoria, King's Cross and London Bridge.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I may need to stock up on popcorn..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30053692

    "Four men have been detained by police following an investigation into the sale of Rangers Football Club in 2011."

  • Re the Deed of Variation comments on the last thread and whether that was the means for IHT planning being done by the LotO family allegedly. This is something done after the death of the person naturally and as I understand it requires the approval of the variation by ALL beneficiaries in the original Will.

    Not my expertise but that's my understanding.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC News At One Story almost out of the Tin Foil Hat WWW.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30052726

    Why is that tin foil hat territory?

    Several homicides have been linked to the Rotherham/Muslim grooming gangs.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2510542/Britains-white-honour-killing-Teenager-brutally-murdered-Muslim-lover-exposing-relationship-family.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374443/Police-hid-abuse-60-girls-Asian-takeaway-workers-linked-Charlene-Downes-murder.html

    It only takes a sane person about 35 seconds to think on the enormous scandal of Rotherham, Blackpool, Rochdale, Oxford, Telford, Derby, Coventry, Wycombe, et al, and then combust with anger at the cover-up and the whitewash. The government is, apparently, doing NOTHING.

    It is way beyond belief. It is the most squalid and shameful story in modern British politics.
    Operation Fairbank is into the alleged paedophile ring at Whitehall. There's no Scotland Yard investigation into the Asian grooming gangs.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    Now project forward that increase in crowdedness another twenty or thirty years. Can you imagine what those train stations will be like in rush hour? It will be like Mumbai Central in a lot of places like Victoria, King's Cross and London Bridge.
    Segregated and Ghettoised,.. who could have predicted it?

    "Tower Hamlets has the highest rate of children living under the poverty line[17] and, after Newham, the second highest rate of overcrowding.[18] According to the recent report of the Tower Hamlets Fairness Commission, one in five households living in Tower Hamlets earns less than £15,000. Yet, largely because it contains Canary Wharf and areas that border the City, the average income of those who work in the borough is an astounding £78,000.[19]"

    http://www.publicspirit.org.uk/immigration-and-diversity-in-tower-hamlets/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Leon Brittan should chair an investigation into both of them.
  • SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    Now project forward that increase in crowdedness another twenty or thirty years. Can you imagine what those train stations will be like in rush hour? It will be like Mumbai Central in a lot of places like Victoria, King's Cross and London Bridge.
    No. It won't be like Mumbai. Really. It won't.
    less cows, almost certainly
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited November 2014
    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    Now project forward that increase in crowdedness another twenty or thirty years. Can you imagine what those train stations will be like in rush hour? It will be like Mumbai Central in a lot of places like Victoria, King's Cross and London Bridge.
    No. It won't be like Mumbai. Really. It won't.
    In terms of levels of crowding, I'm talking. People are already packed shoulder-to-shoulder, chest-to-back on platforms and tubes in a lot of places, and that's with trains running every couple of minutes. There's going to be ten million plus people by 2030 on the same patch of land.
  • SeanT said:

    It makes me want to burn down Westminster, and Whitehall, and New Scotland Yard, with everyone inside.

    murder is still worse though (in my opinion)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited November 2014
    Hope the BBC have done all their checks this time. Interesting timing from the BBC to report this.

    Whenever they report on this it is always late 70's, early 80's. Of course, nothing was happening before this or after.
  • Re the Deed of Variation comments on the last thread and whether that was the means for IHT planning being done by the LotO family allegedly. This is something done after the death of the person naturally and as I understand it requires the approval of the variation by ALL beneficiaries in the original Will.

    Not my expertise but that's my understanding.

    You are correct. If EdM was a beneficiary in the original Will he would have to agree any changes in the Deed of Variation.....
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,054

    Re the Deed of Variation comments on the last thread and whether that was the means for IHT planning being done by the LotO family allegedly. This is something done after the death of the person naturally and as I understand it requires the approval of the variation by ALL beneficiaries in the original Will.

    Not my expertise but that's my understanding.

    It does, my family just went through all of that for my dad's estate planning. That plus a tennants in common structure requires the approval of all the tennants involved.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Rotherhamgate is just so hideous, in so many ways, I find I have to stop thinking about it, or I go slightly nuts.

    For things to really happen the people in the areas affected have to turf out the labour administrations that have presided over this misrule.

    At one point I was confident they would, now I'm not so sure.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC News At One Story almost out of the Tin Foil Hat WWW.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30052726

    Why is that tin foil hat territory?

    Several homicides have been linked to the Rotherham/Muslim grooming gangs.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2510542/Britains-white-honour-killing-Teenager-brutally-murdered-Muslim-lover-exposing-relationship-family.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374443/Police-hid-abuse-60-girls-Asian-takeaway-workers-linked-Charlene-Downes-murder.html

    It only takes a sane person about 35 seconds to think on the enormous scandal of Rotherham, Blackpool, Rochdale, Oxford, Telford, Derby, Coventry, Wycombe, et al, and then combust with anger at the cover-up and the whitewash. The government is, apparently, doing NOTHING.

    It is way beyond belief. It is the most squalid and shameful story in modern British politics.
    Operation Fairbank is into the alleged paedophile ring at Whitehall. There's no Scotland Yard investigation into the Asian grooming gangs.
    We disagree on London but I entirely agree with you on this. Rotherhamgate is just so hideous, in so many ways, I find I have to stop thinking about it, or I go slightly nuts.

    We have 1400 victims of racist gang rape in ONE TOWN, which means there are possibly tens of thousands of victims around the country, along with lots of evidence of police corruption, and political cover-up...

    And the response from the Establishment is total, ringing silence and inaction? It makes me want to burn down Westminster, and Whitehall, and New Scotland Yard, with everyone inside.

    But instead I shall go for a walk and maybe buy some shoes. Later.
    ...and in the same County where these rapists walk free, aided and abetted by politicians there is uproar about a one rapist who was tried, convicted, imprisoned and served his time, returning to his job
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721

    SeanT said:

    It makes me want to burn down Westminster, and Whitehall, and New Scotland Yard, with everyone inside.

    murder is still worse though (in my opinion)

    One of our posters (apologies, forgot who), claimed here a few weeks ago that the worst crime ever was racism. Yep, worse than murder and child abuse. Most of us would disagree. Those who govern us don't.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    taffys said:

    Rotherhamgate is just so hideous, in so many ways, I find I have to stop thinking about it, or I go slightly nuts.

    For things to really happen the people in the areas affected have to turf out the labour administrations that have presided over this misrule.

    At one point I was confident they would, now I'm not so sure.

    UKIP are doing OK in and around Rotherham still, the weighed in labour vote that exists in Sheffield and 2nd preference system masked it a bit in the police election.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    edited November 2014
    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC News At One Story almost out of the Tin Foil Hat WWW.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30052726

    Why is that tin foil hat territory?

    Several homicides have been linked to the Rotherham/Muslim grooming gangs.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2510542/Britains-white-honour-killing-Teenager-brutally-murdered-Muslim-lover-exposing-relationship-family.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374443/Police-hid-abuse-60-girls-Asian-takeaway-workers-linked-Charlene-Downes-murder.html

    It only takes a sane person about 35 seconds to think on the enormous scandal of Rotherham, Blackpool, Rochdale, Oxford, Telford, Derby, Coventry, Wycombe, et al, and then combust with anger at the cover-up and the whitewash. The government is, apparently, doing NOTHING.

    It is way beyond belief. It is the most squalid and shameful story in modern British politics.
    Operation Fairbank is into the alleged paedophile ring at Whitehall. There's no Scotland Yard investigation into the Asian grooming gangs.
    We disagree on London but I entirely agree with you on this. Rotherhamgate is just so hideous, in so many ways, I find I have to stop thinking about it, or I go slightly nuts.

    We have 1400 victims of racist gang rape in ONE TOWN, which means there are possibly tens of thousands of victims around the country, along with lots of evidence of police corruption, and political cover-up...

    And the response from the Establishment is total, ringing silence and inaction? It makes me want to burn down Westminster, and Whitehall, and New Scotland Yard, with everyone inside.

    But instead I shall go for a walk and maybe buy some shoes. Later.
    ...and in the same County where these rapists walk free, aided and abetted by politicians there is uproar about a one rapist who was tried, convicted, imprisoned and served his time, returning to his job
    It was white on white.
  • SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    Now project forward that increase in crowdedness another twenty or thirty years. Can you imagine what those train stations will be like in rush hour? It will be like Mumbai Central in a lot of places like Victoria, King's Cross and London Bridge.
    No. It won't be like Mumbai. Really. It won't.
    less cows, almost certainly
    I'm sure Socrates wasn't suggesting pecorous termini.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    One thing I don't understand about the grooming gang scandal is that this very website is frequently read by people working at the party HQs and parliament. The appallingness and the extensiveness of it must have at least partially penetrated the political bubble there. But what do such people do?

    a) Read it and roll their eyes at people getting upset about thousands of uninvestigated rapes?
    b) Read it and nod silently in agreement but don't mention it to anyone else out of some desire not to ruffle feathers?
    c) Raise the issue with the highers ups but be told in no uncertain terms not to go public with it?

    I find the (lack of) reaction completely unfathomable.
  • Sorry - this is all reported on yonks ago... still though...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/8039829/Red-Ed-Miliband-lives-in-1.6m-house-after-shrewd-property-moves.html

    He and his brother, David, signed a “deed of variation” along with their mother, Marion, following the death of their father Ralph, an influential Marxist academic, in 1994.

    This gave them each a 20 per cent stake in the four-storey house in Edis Street, reducing the inheritance tax eventually payable on the estate.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Labour are in a right panic. Now openly attacking the mediia. This is not going to go well for them yet, yet ..... the tradegy is they know they are going to lose with Ed, the Media know the same but Labour just cannot find a way out?



    "When another hack asked if Ed felt he had made any mistakes as leader, one passionate activist audibly spat out ‘yes, taking a question from you.’ After Ed had disappeared to rousing clapping and cheering, things got really heated. One party member even saw fit to come over to the media corner and openly berate the gathered hacks:

    The same woman was later heard by your humble correspondent shouting in the lobby those that had asked questions were ‘worse than Hitler’s henchmen stirring up hatred against the Jews’. Surely a late contender for the stupidest comment of the year?"


    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/labours-war-on-the-media-is-working-as-activists-turn-on-hacks/
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited November 2014

    Re the Deed of Variation comments on the last thread and whether that was the means for IHT planning being done by the LotO family allegedly. This is something done after the death of the person naturally and as I understand it requires the approval of the variation by ALL beneficiaries in the original Will.

    Not my expertise but that's my understanding.

    It needs the consent of all adversely affected beneficiaries. It's a standard procedure. Often a will has not been updated to take account of changing circumstances within the family, (e.g. births) or of changed tax legislation. It can also be used by beneficiaries to bypass themselves in favour of their children, or even unborn children.
  • SeanT

    So when is your DT blog about Rotherhamgate and zero response to it coming out? You have alot more personal power than the rest of us here on PB to help in some small way. Get off yer arse!
  • Socrates said:

    One thing I don't understand about the grooming gang scandal is that this very website is frequently read by people working at the party HQs and parliament. The appallingness and the extensiveness of it must have at least partially penetrated the political bubble there. But what do such people do?

    a) Read it and roll their eyes at people getting upset about thousands of uninvestigated rapes?
    b) Read it and nod silently in agreement but don't mention it to anyone else out of some desire not to ruffle feathers?
    c) Raise the issue with the highers ups but be told in no uncertain terms not to go public with it?

    I find the (lack of) reaction completely unfathomable.

    they possibly believe that Rotherham (the town) and places like it are a myth. they have almost certainly never been there or anywhere much like it (generalizing of course- but PPEs probably don't get much further than the mean streets of downtown oxford)
  • Itajai said:

    SeanT said:

    It makes me want to burn down Westminster, and Whitehall, and New Scotland Yard, with everyone inside.

    murder is still worse though (in my opinion)

    One of our posters (apologies, forgot who), claimed here a few weeks ago that the worst crime ever was racism. Yep, worse than murder and child abuse. Most of us would disagree. Those who govern us don't.
    yes, this is puzzling.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,054
    Socrates said:

    One thing I don't understand about the grooming gang scandal is that this very website is frequently read by people working at the party HQs and parliament. The appallingness and the extensiveness of it must have at least partially penetrated the political bubble there. But what do such people do?

    a) Read it and roll their eyes at people getting upset about thousands of uninvestigated rapes?
    b) Read it and nod silently in agreement but don't mention it to anyone else out of some desire not to ruffle feathers?
    c) Raise the issue with the highers ups but be told in no uncertain terms not to go public with it?

    I find the (lack of) reaction completely unfathomable.

    Its probably mix of all three with the Lib Dems in section a, Labour in b and the Tories in c.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,054
    Patrick said:

    SeanT

    So when is your DT blog about Rotherhamgate and zero response to it coming out? You have alot more personal power than the rest of us here on PB to help in some small way. Get off yer arse!

    Please listen to this advice Sean! I'll buy all of your books from wherever you make the most money!
  • Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    Now project forward that increase in crowdedness another twenty or thirty years. Can you imagine what those train stations will be like in rush hour? It will be like Mumbai Central in a lot of places like Victoria, King's Cross and London Bridge.
    No. It won't be like Mumbai. Really. It won't.
    In terms of levels of crowding, I'm talking. People are already packed shoulder-to-shoulder, chest-to-back on platforms and tubes in a lot of places, and that's with trains running every couple of minutes. There's going to be ten million plus people by 2030 on the same patch of land.
    Public transport benefits from population density. If the existing tunnels are full, dig some more.
  • Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    Now project forward that increase in crowdedness another twenty or thirty years. Can you imagine what those train stations will be like in rush hour? It will be like Mumbai Central in a lot of places like Victoria, King's Cross and London Bridge.
    No. It won't be like Mumbai. Really. It won't.
    In terms of levels of crowding, I'm talking. People are already packed shoulder-to-shoulder, chest-to-back on platforms and tubes in a lot of places, and that's with trains running every couple of minutes. There's going to be ten million plus people by 2030 on the same patch of land.
    Public transport benefits from population density. If the existing tunnels are full, dig some more.
    Delhi's metro is delightful. the overground main station, less so
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Moses_ said:

    Labour are in a right panic. Now openly attacking the mediia. This is not going to go well for them yet, yet ..... the tradegy is they know they are going to lose with Ed, the Media know the same but Labour just cannot find a way out?



    "When another hack asked if Ed felt he had made any mistakes as leader, one passionate activist audibly spat out ‘yes, taking a question from you.’ After Ed had disappeared to rousing clapping and cheering, things got really heated. One party member even saw fit to come over to the media corner and openly berate the gathered hacks:

    The same woman was later heard by your humble correspondent shouting in the lobby those that had asked questions were ‘worse than Hitler’s henchmen stirring up hatred against the Jews’. Surely a late contender for the stupidest comment of the year?"


    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/labours-war-on-the-media-is-working-as-activists-turn-on-hacks/

    What a ridiculous comment. Ed Miliband has been treated far worse than the Jews. The only people who have experienced worse treatment than Ed were the teaching Unions at the hands of that evil bastard Gove.

    On a serious note, all politicians/governments get a rough time from the press, especially when they deserve it. And history is littered with both Labour and Conservative leaders railing at the perceived bias of the BBC. It is one area where Cameron deserves great credit, and Clegg too. After the paranoia and on-message censorship of the Blair and Brown years, this government has been refreshingly sanguine about media batterings.

  • big disparity in where PP and Ladbrokes have put their 5/6 either way lines on SNP seats - 25.5 for PP and 20.5 for lads- one of them is wrong!!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    big disparity in where PP and Ladbrokes have put their 5/6 either way lines on SNP seats - 25.5 for PP and 20.5 for lads- one of them is wrong!!

    A good rule of thumb is that Ladbrokes is correct and the other bookie is a bit off.

    Can point to numerous examples.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    Now project forward that increase in crowdedness another twenty or thirty years. Can you imagine what those train stations will be like in rush hour? It will be like Mumbai Central in a lot of places like Victoria, King's Cross and London Bridge.
    No. It won't be like Mumbai. Really. It won't.
    In terms of levels of crowding, I'm talking. People are already packed shoulder-to-shoulder, chest-to-back on platforms and tubes in a lot of places, and that's with trains running every couple of minutes. There's going to be ten million plus people by 2030 on the same patch of land.
    Public transport benefits from population density. If the existing tunnels are full, dig some more.
    You realise that building new tunnels takes a lot of time and money, right? We're already paying through the nose to cover capital expenditure. This is the issue with a lot of political thought about this stuff: it's all thought about in terms theoretical supply and demand curves, with no thought about the cost (in both time and money) of moving those curves and practical barriers to it.

    On underground trains, for one thing, there's a huge physical constraint on the sheer basis of space. You have to dig deeper and deeper to dodge the existing tunnels, and it gets ever more pricier each time. Did you see the huge hole in the West End for Crossrail?

    And then, of course, you need to build the new stations for these magical new lines. Where are they going to go? By building over London's parks?
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    SeanT said:


    But instead I shall go for a walk and maybe buy some shoes. Later.

    Shoes are good. Shoe shopping is good for the sole soul.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    big disparity in where PP and Ladbrokes have put their 5/6 either way lines on SNP seats - 25.5 for PP and 20.5 for lads- one of them is wrong!!


    £100 at 10/1 21-25!
  • SeanT said:

    fpt for Plato

    Indeed. I actually lived in Wapping in the early 80s. It was an ex-council block of Victorian tenements, a place so rough and rundown even council tenants refused to live there, so it was turned into "hard to let" flats (remember those?!) which were rented out to students like me and my pal, for about £5 a week. Literally.

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    It was poetic and Dickensian and slightly mystical, but it was also fecking depressing if you had a hangover. And the idea of staying there MORE than a few months was just too grim. We left.

    Now it is gleaming new flats and posh gastrobars and it hums with prosperity. My old block is now multimillion quid flats, of course. And no one has been kicked out cause, 30 years ago, no one lived there (apart from drunken students dropping acid).

    Wapping station is now part of the London Overground (since 2007). Thames Tunnels still going strong though.
  • MaxPB said:

    Socrates said:

    One thing I don't understand about the grooming gang scandal is that this very website is frequently read by people working at the party HQs and parliament. The appallingness and the extensiveness of it must have at least partially penetrated the political bubble there. But what do such people do?

    a) Read it and roll their eyes at people getting upset about thousands of uninvestigated rapes?
    b) Read it and nod silently in agreement but don't mention it to anyone else out of some desire not to ruffle feathers?
    c) Raise the issue with the highers ups but be told in no uncertain terms not to go public with it?

    I find the (lack of) reaction completely unfathomable.

    Its probably mix of all three with the Lib Dems in section a, Labour in b and the Tories in c.
    Chosen to match your prejudices no doubt.
    Maybe you should ask who could do something about it? Home Office or relevant local authorities I would guess.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited November 2014

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    Now project forward that increase in crowdedness another twenty or thirty years. Can you imagine what those train stations will be like in rush hour? It will be like Mumbai Central in a lot of places like Victoria, King's Cross and London Bridge.
    No. It won't be like Mumbai. Really. It won't.
    In terms of levels of crowding, I'm talking. People are already packed shoulder-to-shoulder, chest-to-back on platforms and tubes in a lot of places, and that's with trains running every couple of minutes. There's going to be ten million plus people by 2030 on the same patch of land.
    Public transport benefits from population density. If the existing tunnels are full, dig some more.
    If I had built the Tube tunnels, I would have built them to 16ft diameter so that they can accommodate main-line size trains. More space for passengers and luggage. In 1904, the line from Drayton Park to Moorgate was built to such specs. Now it's part of the main-line network, of course.

    I think it's a bit silly to send teeny, weeny Tube trains out to such places as Heathrow, West Ruislip, Epping, Hainault, Stanmore, Edgware, Mill Hill and Barnet.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    Now project forward that increase in crowdedness another twenty or thirty years. Can you imagine what those train stations will be like in rush hour? It will be like Mumbai Central in a lot of places like Victoria, King's Cross and London Bridge.
    Wapping was deserted, as the LDDC was clearing everyone out to redevelop the area. There's no point in comparing it then, to now.
  • Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    Now project forward that increase in crowdedness another twenty or thirty years. Can you imagine what those train stations will be like in rush hour? It will be like Mumbai Central in a lot of places like Victoria, King's Cross and London Bridge.
    No. It won't be like Mumbai. Really. It won't.
    In terms of levels of crowding, I'm talking. People are already packed shoulder-to-shoulder, chest-to-back on platforms and tubes in a lot of places, and that's with trains running every couple of minutes. There's going to be ten million plus people by 2030 on the same patch of land.
    Public transport benefits from population density. If the existing tunnels are full, dig some more.
    You realise that building new tunnels takes a lot of time and money, right? We're already paying through the nose to cover capital expenditure. This is the issue with a lot of political thought about this stuff: it's all thought about in terms theoretical supply and demand curves, with no thought about the cost (in both time and money) of moving those curves and practical barriers to it.

    On underground trains, for one thing, there's a huge physical constraint on the sheer basis of space. You have to dig deeper and deeper to dodge the existing tunnels, and it gets ever more pricier each time. Did you see the huge hole in the West End for Crossrail?

    And then, of course, you need to build the new stations for these magical new lines. Where are they going to go? By building over London's parks?

    The money isn't a problem, you have loads more passengers and taxpayers to pay for it. As far as depth goes Tokyo managed fine with the Oedo Line, which can't go much deeper for fear of cutting through gas lines in Brazil. Station buildings have awesome foot traffic can be filled with shops and restaurants, making them huge money-spinners. As far as space goes there are three dimensions not two (not counting time, as our technology for making use of it is limited), and apart from a few locations London only uses a fraction of its available vertical space. They don't even have earthquakes to deal with, it's not a difficult problem.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    isam said:

    big disparity in where PP and Ladbrokes have put their 5/6 either way lines on SNP seats - 25.5 for PP and 20.5 for lads- one of them is wrong!!


    £100 at 10/1 21-25!
    Paddy Power 25.5 and under, Ladbrokes 26-30 and Ladbrokes 31+ is a 96% book.

    Just saying...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited November 2014

    MaxPB said:

    Socrates said:

    One thing I don't understand about the grooming gang scandal is that this very website is frequently read by people working at the party HQs and parliament. The appallingness and the extensiveness of it must have at least partially penetrated the political bubble there. But what do such people do?

    a) Read it and roll their eyes at people getting upset about thousands of uninvestigated rapes?
    b) Read it and nod silently in agreement but don't mention it to anyone else out of some desire not to ruffle feathers?
    c) Raise the issue with the highers ups but be told in no uncertain terms not to go public with it?

    I find the (lack of) reaction completely unfathomable.

    Its probably mix of all three with the Lib Dems in section a, Labour in b and the Tories in c.
    Chosen to match your prejudices no doubt.
    Maybe you should ask who could do something about it? Home Office or relevant local authorities I would guess.
    The local authorities are the ones that have failed in the first place. It's madness to leave investigation of their own failures to the same organisations. You'll get a handful (like Rotherham) who face such political pressure they have to do something, but the vast majority will just keep quiet and hope it will blow over. Which it will. And thousands of children will be left exposed to such abuse.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited November 2014
    isam said:

    big disparity in where PP and Ladbrokes have put their 5/6 either way lines on SNP seats - 25.5 for PP and 20.5 for lads- one of them is wrong!!


    £100 at 10/1 21-25!
    Edit - ah yes seen what you have worked out there. Good luck getting £600 on with Paddy Power though.

    £120 @ 5-6 6.5+ ^_~
  • Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    Now project forward that increase in crowdedness another twenty or thirty years. Can you imagine what those train stations will be like in rush hour? It will be like Mumbai Central in a lot of places like Victoria, King's Cross and London Bridge.
    No. It won't be like Mumbai. Really. It won't.
    In terms of levels of crowding, I'm talking. People are already packed shoulder-to-shoulder, chest-to-back on platforms and tubes in a lot of places, and that's with trains running every couple of minutes. There's going to be ten million plus people by 2030 on the same patch of land.
    Public transport benefits from population density. If the existing tunnels are full, dig some more.
    If I had built the Tube tunnels, I would have built them to 16ft diameter so that they can accommodate main-line size trains. More space for passengers and luggage. In 1904, the line from Drayton Park to Moorgate was built to such specs. Now it's part of the main-line network, of course.

    I think it's a bit silly to send teeny, weeny Tube trains out to such places as Heathrow, West Ruislip, Epping, Hainault, Stanmore, Edgware, Mill Hill and Barnet.
    used to have a girlfriend on the central line. we used to chuckle at "this is the anal (hainault) train"
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    big disparity in where PP and Ladbrokes have put their 5/6 either way lines on SNP seats - 25.5 for PP and 20.5 for lads- one of them is wrong!!

    I reckon there's a disparity within Ladbrokes. SNP at 11/8 to win most seats in Scotland, but the over/under is 20.5. It's difficult to imagine them getting over 20 seats but not the most seats. Very narrow window of outcomes, to be honest.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    FPT: Richard Nabavi: You are talking, I'm sorry to say, rubbish on extradition. If we had remained opted out of the EAW, I've no doubt that we could have had appropriate extradition treaties with other EU countries.

    And, if not, well we'd have survived. But at least it would have meant that British citizens would enjoy the advantages of British criminal law.

    And I'm well aware that it would also mean that we could not pursue people who fled abroad. But, as you put it, governing is about choosing. And May should have chosen to put the interests of the British first.

    Whereas in this case, the victim of a crime - a very serious crime - is facing the prospect of being prosecuted for reporting that crime. Given the very strong efforts that are being made to encourage the victims of sexual abuse to come forward, what message do you think such a case sends out?

    There are lots of cases where someone charged with rape is acquitted. It does not follow that the victim is then prosecuted for making a false allegation. Such a reaction would be absurd and contrary to the public interest. It is only in the most serious of cases that such action is even contemplated by the CPS. And as you will be aware there was the very recent tragic case of a young woman who killed herself when faced with exactly that prospect.

    May should tell the Italian Justice Minister that we are not going to extradite the victims of rape, that we expect the Italian police to investigate this crime thoroughly and that it is only if there is evidence which would justify the CPS here bringing a charge of obstructing the course of justice (taking into account the public interest in doing so etc) - to be tested by the CPS here according the British criminal legal standards - will we even contemplate extradition.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457


    The money isn't a problem, you have loads more passengers and taxpayers to pay for it. As far as depth goes Tokyo managed fine with the Oedo Line, which can't go much deeper for fear of cutting through gas lines in Brazil. Station buildings have awesome foot traffic can be filled with shops and restaurants, making them huge money-spinners. As far as space goes there are three dimensions not two (not counting time, as our technology for making use of it is limited), and apart from a few locations London only uses a fraction of its available vertical space. They don't even have earthquakes to deal with, it's not a difficult problem.

    A case in point: some Crossrail stations will have large retail spaces built within them. The beautiful Canary Wharf is one of them:
    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/stations/canary-wharf/
    and TCR:
    http://www.crossrail.co.uk/benefits/changing-spaces-building-communities/enhancing-the-space-in-which-our-stations-will-sit/tottenham-court-road

    I don't know how applicable this is to Tokyo, but one problem with London is that the ground is not particularly good for tunnelling (or skyscrapers, either), with lots of water-bearing sand and gravels at depths.

    http://www.tunneltalk.com/Crossrail-Aug10-Site-investigation-and-geology.php
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322


    The money isn't a problem, you have loads more passengers and taxpayers to pay for it. As far as depth goes Tokyo managed fine with the Oedo Line, which can't go much deeper for fear of cutting through gas lines in Brazil. Station buildings have awesome foot traffic can be filled with shops and restaurants, making them huge money-spinners. As far as space goes there are three dimensions not two (not counting time, as our technology for making use of it is limited), and apart from a few locations London only uses a fraction of its available vertical space. They don't even have earthquakes to deal with, it's not a difficult problem.

    The money IS a problem, because the deeper you dig the more expensive the line is per passenger. Japan is an absurd example to use, because it is way over capitalised through the result of huge government spending which has left it with 240% debt, so they just throw money at every problem, knowing that the lines don't need to make a profit, with the financing just getting stuck on the govt's credit card. In this country we actually have ambitious of being fiscally responsible.

    Oh, and travelling down and up to lines dug every deeper eats into everyone's commuting time, making their lives just that extra bit worse, after already dealing with the constant construction projects and line closures, and the sheer congestion as we can't build fast enough. And what's the purpose of all of this? To accommodate huge numbers of unskilled migrants that bring little benefit to the nation (or in fact a huge cost in many cases).
  • PP now down to 23.5!!!
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    A
    Cyclefree said:

    FPT: Richard Nabavi: You are talking, I'm sorry to say, rubbish on extradition. If we had remained opted out of the EAW, I've no doubt that we could have had appropriate extradition treaties with other EU countries.

    And, if not, well we'd have survived. But at least it would have meant that British citizens would enjoy the advantages of British criminal law.

    And I'm well aware that it would also mean that we could not pursue people who fled abroad. But, as you put it, governing is about choosing. And May should have chosen to put the interests of the British first.

    Whereas in this case, the victim of a crime - a very serious crime - is facing the prospect of being prosecuted for reporting that crime. Given the very strong efforts that are being made to encourage the victims of sexual abuse to come forward, what message do you think such a case sends out?

    There are lots of cases where someone charged with rape is acquitted. It does not follow that the victim is then prosecuted for making a false allegation. Such a reaction would be absurd and contrary to the public interest. It is only in the most serious of cases that such action is even contemplated by the CPS. And as you will be aware there was the very recent tragic case of a young woman who killed herself when faced with exactly that prospect.

    May should tell the Italian Justice Minister that we are not going to extradite the victims of rape, that we expect the Italian police to investigate this crime thoroughly and that it is only if there is evidence which would justify the CPS here bringing a charge of obstructing the course of justice (taking into account the public interest in doing so etc) - to be tested by the CPS here according the British criminal legal standards - will we even contemplate extradition.

    Wouldn't Europe's criminals all hide here to avoid the legal process in their own country?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited November 2014
    Quincel said:

    big disparity in where PP and Ladbrokes have put their 5/6 either way lines on SNP seats - 25.5 for PP and 20.5 for lads- one of them is wrong!!

    I reckon there's a disparity within Ladbrokes. SNP at 11/8 to win most seats in Scotland, but the over/under is 20.5. It's difficult to imagine them getting over 20 seats but not the most seats. Very narrow window of outcomes, to be honest.
    Scotland has 59 seats,

    Orkney and Shetland and most likely Ross, Skye and Lochaber are staying Lib Dem I'd guess

    Probably Caithness, Sutherland too.

    3 seats.

    The Tories probably gain 2 (Dumfries & Galloway & Aberdeen, Kincardine) on a very good night there (Are there any I've missed ?) ... @TSE's prediction of Edinburgh South is fanciful I feel.

    So that's 26.5 seats as the most seats "line", which is more or less in line with the 11-8 ?

    On a very, very, very good night for the SNP I think Tories + Lib Dems struggle to get to anywhere near 18 which is the implied line you'd need for a straight pseudo-arb.

    Or am I missing something big here ?

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited November 2014

    PP now down to 23.5!!!

    Hope everyone got in, hit "max" and got on the unders, I certainly did.

    Thanks for pointing it out btw.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Whereas in this case, the victim of a crime - a very serious crime - is facing the prospect of being prosecuted for reporting that crime.

    I would have expected you, of all people, not to immediately jump a conclusion on a criminal case on the basis of a newspaper article, but you seem to have made you mind up on this one with zero knowledge of the evidence. Let's hope you're never on a jury.

    That's without even mentioning the fact that there is no certainty that any extradition is actually being requested, or that if it were requested it would be granted, or that it wouldn't equally be granted under any other extradition arrangement we might have.

    You are also immediately jumping to the conclusion that the Italian police haven't investigated thoroughly. How on earth do you know that?

    Essentially, you haven't the faintest clue about this case, if indeed there is any case.

    Nor have I, but the difference is that I don't rush to any judgement on it.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Pulpstar said:

    Quincel said:

    big disparity in where PP and Ladbrokes have put their 5/6 either way lines on SNP seats - 25.5 for PP and 20.5 for lads- one of them is wrong!!

    I reckon there's a disparity within Ladbrokes. SNP at 11/8 to win most seats in Scotland, but the over/under is 20.5. It's difficult to imagine them getting over 20 seats but not the most seats. Very narrow window of outcomes, to be honest.
    Scotland has 59 seats,

    Orkney and Shetland and most likely Ross, Skye and Lochaber are staying Lib Dem I'd guess

    Probably Caithness, Sutherland too.

    3 seats.

    The Tories probably gain 2 (Dumfries & Galloway & Aberdeen, Kincardine) on a very good night there (Are there any I've missed ?) ... @TSE's prediction of Edinburgh South is fanciful I feel.

    So that's 26.5 seats as the most seats "line", which is more or less in line with the 11-8 ?

    On a very, very, very good night for the SNP I think Tories + Lib Dems struggle to get to anywhere near 18 which is the implied line you'd need for a straight pseudo-arb.

    Or am I missing something big here ?

    Nothing big. My belief in the FPTP 'winners bonus' meaning the SNP will either make 10 or fewer gains or explode to 30+ gains.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Got to be game set and match for Sainsbury's. Or rather: mission accomplished.

    High fives in the marketing dept.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    And, if not, well we'd have survived.

    There only needs to be one high profile case of an innocent Briton spending years in an east European jail without trial for UKIP to smash the tories to pieces on this. The last bastion of British conservatism. Upholding the rights and liberty of the British citizen against foreign interference.

    May would realise this instantly if she had any principle whatsoever beyond looking a decent bet for the leadership. But she doesn't.

    And when the above happens we'll have another desperate round of 'we;ve got this covered' backside covering from May and her gaggle of civil servants.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Quincel said:

    big disparity in where PP and Ladbrokes have put their 5/6 either way lines on SNP seats - 25.5 for PP and 20.5 for lads- one of them is wrong!!

    I reckon there's a disparity within Ladbrokes. SNP at 11/8 to win most seats in Scotland, but the over/under is 20.5. It's difficult to imagine them getting over 20 seats but not the most seats. Very narrow window of outcomes, to be honest.
    Scotland has 59 seats,

    Orkney and Shetland and most likely Ross, Skye and Lochaber are staying Lib Dem I'd guess

    Probably Caithness, Sutherland too.

    3 seats.

    The Tories probably gain 2 (Dumfries & Galloway & Aberdeen, Kincardine) on a very good night there (Are there any I've missed ?) ... @TSE's prediction of Edinburgh South is fanciful I feel.

    So that's 26.5 seats as the most seats "line", which is more or less in line with the 11-8 ?

    On a very, very, very good night for the SNP I think Tories + Lib Dems struggle to get to anywhere near 18 which is the implied line you'd need for a straight pseudo-arb.

    Or am I missing something big here ?

    Nothing big. My belief in the FPTP 'winners bonus' meaning the SNP will either make 10 or fewer gains or explode to 30+ gains.
    Scotland is all about

    The SNP force meets the Labour majority object
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    taffys said:

    And, if not, well we'd have survived.

    There only needs to be one high profile case of an innocent Briton spending years in an east European jail without trial for UKIP to smash the tories to pieces on this. The last bastion of British conservatism. Upholding the rights and liberty of the British citizen against foreign interference.

    May would realise this instantly if she had any principle whatsoever beyond looking a decent bet for the leadership. But she doesn't.

    And when the above happens we'll have another desperate round of 'we;ve got this covered' backside covering from May and her gaggle of civil servants.

    In fairness to May she's done a decent job of remaining in the next leader frame whilst handling what is probably Gov'ts trickiest department. It is normally a graveyard for ambition.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TOPPING said:

    Got to be game set and match for Sainsbury's. Or rather: mission accomplished.

    High fives in the marketing dept.

    They can play the pipes of peace to celebrate!
  • isam said:
    mandelson was much better with moustache
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Pulpstar said:

    Quincel said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Quincel said:

    big disparity in where PP and Ladbrokes have put their 5/6 either way lines on SNP seats - 25.5 for PP and 20.5 for lads- one of them is wrong!!

    I reckon there's a disparity within Ladbrokes. SNP at 11/8 to win most seats in Scotland, but the over/under is 20.5. It's difficult to imagine them getting over 20 seats but not the most seats. Very narrow window of outcomes, to be honest.
    Scotland has 59 seats,

    Orkney and Shetland and most likely Ross, Skye and Lochaber are staying Lib Dem I'd guess

    Probably Caithness, Sutherland too.

    3 seats.

    The Tories probably gain 2 (Dumfries & Galloway & Aberdeen, Kincardine) on a very good night there (Are there any I've missed ?) ... @TSE's prediction of Edinburgh South is fanciful I feel.

    So that's 26.5 seats as the most seats "line", which is more or less in line with the 11-8 ?

    On a very, very, very good night for the SNP I think Tories + Lib Dems struggle to get to anywhere near 18 which is the implied line you'd need for a straight pseudo-arb.

    Or am I missing something big here ?

    Nothing big. My belief in the FPTP 'winners bonus' meaning the SNP will either make 10 or fewer gains or explode to 30+ gains.
    Scotland is all about

    The SNP force meets the Labour majority object
    Ommmmm
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    TOPPING said:

    Got to be game set and match for Sainsbury's. Or rather: mission accomplished.

    High fives in the marketing dept.

    That rather depends on what the mission was.

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Been busy all day... Are Labour still intent on committing political suicide...keeping Slogan Boy in position...
  • Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Wapping was almost indescribably deserted then. I remember walking up Garnet Street (where Alf got his name, apparently) then down Wapping High Street to the Tube, on winter mornings. It was so quiet I could hear my own footsteps echoing on the cobbles. A mist hung over everything, drifting off the river.

    Now project forward that increase in crowdedness another twenty or thirty years. Can you imagine what those train stations will be like in rush hour? It will be like Mumbai Central in a lot of places like Victoria, King's Cross and London Bridge.
    No. It won't be like Mumbai. Really. It won't.
    In terms of levels of crowding, I'm talking. People are already packed shoulder-to-shoulder, chest-to-back on platforms and tubes in a lot of places, and that's with trains running every couple of minutes. There's going to be ten million plus people by 2030 on the same patch of land.
    Public transport benefits from population density. If the existing tunnels are full, dig some more.
    If I had built the Tube tunnels, I would have built them to 16ft diameter so that they can accommodate main-line size trains. More space for passengers and luggage. In 1904, the line from Drayton Park to Moorgate was built to such specs. Now it's part of the main-line network, of course.

    I think it's a bit silly to send teeny, weeny Tube trains out to such places as Heathrow, West Ruislip, Epping, Hainault, Stanmore, Edgware, Mill Hill and Barnet.
    used to have a girlfriend on the central line. we used to chuckle at "this is the anal (hainault) train"
    One of our teachers at Ilford County claimed that one of his teachers pronounced it "High-No" (in a faux French way!)
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Pulpstar said:

    taffys said:

    And, if not, well we'd have survived.

    There only needs to be one high profile case of an innocent Briton spending years in an east European jail without trial for UKIP to smash the tories to pieces on this. The last bastion of British conservatism. Upholding the rights and liberty of the British citizen against foreign interference.

    May would realise this instantly if she had any principle whatsoever beyond looking a decent bet for the leadership. But she doesn't.

    And when the above happens we'll have another desperate round of 'we;ve got this covered' backside covering from May and her gaggle of civil servants.

    In fairness to May she's done a decent job of remaining in the next leader frame whilst handling what is probably Gov'ts trickiest department. It is normally a graveyard for ambition.
    I just can't comprehend the ramping for May. Lines at Heathrow. The backing of huge powers for GCHQ. Open cheating on citizenship tests. A new push for the snooper's charter. Huge numbers of illegal immigrants going missing. Backlogs in passport issuance. Opting into the EAW without a parliamentary vote. She's just not very capable a minister.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    Cyclefree said:

    FPT: Richard Nabavi: You are talking, I'm sorry to say, rubbish on extradition. If we had remained opted out of the EAW, I've no doubt that we could have had appropriate extradition treaties with other EU countries.
    ...

    I am sure he's a very nice person, but in my (albeit short) time here so far, I have never seen Richard Nabavi taken a position opposed to the current Conservative Party leadership. Ever. Which as far as I am concerned means despite his posts being erudite and written persuasively, they come with zero weight. I glaze over before I reach the end. I wouldn't even know if he was actually making a valid point, because I just wouldn't know where to start looking for it amongst the impeccably argued GCHQ endorsed tripe.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    SeanT said:

    Patrick said:

    SeanT

    So when is your DT blog about Rotherhamgate and zero response to it coming out? You have alot more personal power than the rest of us here on PB to help in some small way. Get off yer arse!

    Virtually all Telegraph bloggers are on ice, at the moment, as the paper decides its digital future. Check the page, they are publishing maybe one a day, rather than ten.

    I offered them a blog on Rotherham the other day, and this is when I discovered that blogs are on hold.

    So I tried. Honest guv, I tried.

    It's probably a good thing for me, as I REALLY need to focus on writing my next thriller, commissioned by Harper, and due on my editor's desk by June.

    I might write something for the Speccie, tho....

    However I am off to Australia on Monday so it won't be for a while.

    And now: shoes!
    Had you already written it? Why not just offer it to Uncle Rupert?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    edited November 2014

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT: Richard Nabavi: You are talking, I'm sorry to say, rubbish on extradition. If we had remained opted out of the EAW, I've no doubt that we could have had appropriate extradition treaties with other EU countries.
    ...

    I am sure he's a very nice person, but in my (albeit short) time here so far, I have never seen Richard Nabavi taken a position opposed to the current Conservative Party leadership. Ever. Which as far as I am concerned means despite his posts being erudite and written persuasively, they come with zero weight. I glaze over before I reach the end. I wouldn't even know if he was actually making a valid point, because I just wouldn't know where to start looking for it amongst the impeccably argued GCHQ endorsed tripe.

    He seems a nicer person than you for sure. Why be rude ,he never is
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Cyclefree said:

    Whereas in this case, the victim of a crime - a very serious crime - is facing the prospect of being prosecuted for reporting that crime.

    I would have expected you, of all people, not to immediately jump a conclusion on a criminal case on the basis of a newspaper article, but you seem to have made you mind up on this one with zero knowledge of the evidence. Let's hope you're never on a jury.

    That's without even mentioning the fact that there is no certainty that any extradition is actually being requested, or that if it were requested it would be granted, or that it wouldn't equally be granted under any other extradition arrangement we might have.

    You are also immediately jumping to the conclusion that the Italian police haven't investigated thoroughly. How on earth do you know that?

    Essentially, you haven't the faintest clue about this case, if indeed there is any case.

    Nor have I, but the difference is that I don't rush to any judgement on it.
    I'm not making a judgment on the case. What I recommended is that the evidence be tested strongly according to British legal standards before any steps, such as extradition are taken, because of the public interest consequences of prosecuting the victims of crime, a course of action which the EAW precludes. I believe that justice should not be made a secondary consideration to administrative convenience.

    But I am also making the point - which you appear to be ignoring - that there is a very strong public interest in ensuring that victims of crimes, particularly sexual crimes, are not dissuaded from reporting such crimes. And I asked you a specific question about what effect you thought such behaviour by the authorities would have on victims of such crimes, of which I have been one.

    We have - tragically - a recent case in this country, which might give us a clue.

    The point is this: under the EAW there is very little scope for challenging any extradition request which might be made even if, on the same evidence, a British prosecutor would decide that it was not in the public interest to bring such a case. An alternative extradition treaty would give us the possibility - as used to be the case before the EAW - to impose such requirements.

    I have some considerable experience of the Italian criminal system. In consequence I have little regard for it, I'm sorry to say.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,054

    Cyclefree said:

    Whereas in this case, the victim of a crime - a very serious crime - is facing the prospect of being prosecuted for reporting that crime.

    I would have expected you, of all people, not to immediately jump a conclusion on a criminal case on the basis of a newspaper article, but you seem to have made you mind up on this one with zero knowledge of the evidence. Let's hope you're never on a jury.

    That's without even mentioning the fact that there is no certainty that any extradition is actually being requested, or that if it were requested it would be granted, or that it wouldn't equally be granted under any other extradition arrangement we might have.

    You are also immediately jumping to the conclusion that the Italian police haven't investigated thoroughly. How on earth do you know that?

    Essentially, you haven't the faintest clue about this case, if indeed there is any case.

    Nor have I, but the difference is that I don't rush to any judgement on it.
    The same Italian police that tried to make a scapegoat out of Amanda Knox? Yes that's a police force I want to entrust my freedom and liberty to. I don't much care for the Metropolitan police but I absolutely trust our judiciary to ensure that my freedoms will be protected. I do not have the same level of trust in the Italian justice system let alone Greece or Romania. Surely the protection of British liberty and freedom is worth more than being part of some club and Dave being popular in Europe.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    taffys said:

    And, if not, well we'd have survived.

    There only needs to be one high profile case of an innocent Briton spending years in an east European jail without trial for UKIP to smash the tories to pieces on this. The last bastion of British conservatism. Upholding the rights and liberty of the British citizen against foreign interference.

    May would realise this instantly if she had any principle whatsoever beyond looking a decent bet for the leadership. But she doesn't.

    And when the above happens we'll have another desperate round of 'we;ve got this covered' backside covering from May and her gaggle of civil servants.

    In fairness to May she's done a decent job of remaining in the next leader frame whilst handling what is probably Gov'ts trickiest department. It is normally a graveyard for ambition.
    I just can't comprehend the ramping for May. Lines at Heathrow. The backing of huge powers for GCHQ. Open cheating on citizenship tests. A new push for the snooper's charter. Huge numbers of illegal immigrants going missing. Backlogs in passport issuance. Opting into the EAW without a parliamentary vote. She's just not very capable a minister.
    I'm not aware of anyone outside of the Westminster press who has even entertained the idea that May could succeed Cameron.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    taffys said:

    And, if not, well we'd have survived.

    There only needs to be one high profile case of an innocent Briton spending years in an east European jail without trial for UKIP to smash the tories to pieces on this. The last bastion of British conservatism. Upholding the rights and liberty of the British citizen against foreign interference.

    May would realise this instantly if she had any principle whatsoever beyond looking a decent bet for the leadership. But she doesn't.

    And when the above happens we'll have another desperate round of 'we;ve got this covered' backside covering from May and her gaggle of civil servants.

    In fairness to May she's done a decent job of remaining in the next leader frame whilst handling what is probably Gov'ts trickiest department. It is normally a graveyard for ambition.
    I just can't comprehend the ramping for May. Lines at Heathrow. The backing of huge powers for GCHQ. Open cheating on citizenship tests. A new push for the snooper's charter. Huge numbers of illegal immigrants going missing. Backlogs in passport issuance. Opting into the EAW without a parliamentary vote. She's just not very capable a minister.
    'twas ever thus in the Home Office, yet she's still there at around 13-2 odd second favourite for next Tory leader.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    TOPPING said:

    Got to be game set and match for Sainsbury's. Or rather: mission accomplished.

    High fives in the marketing dept.

    That rather depends on what the mission was.

    It is so similar to the Pipes of Peace video that I am astonished anyone was paid to come up with the idea

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2834465/Watchdog-primed-investigate-Sainsbury-s-Christmas-advert-complaints-flood-use-WWI-imagery-promote-company.html
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Socrates said:

    Pulpstar said:

    taffys said:

    And, if not, well we'd have survived.

    There only needs to be one high profile case of an innocent Briton spending years in an east European jail without trial for UKIP to smash the tories to pieces on this. The last bastion of British conservatism. Upholding the rights and liberty of the British citizen against foreign interference.

    May would realise this instantly if she had any principle whatsoever beyond looking a decent bet for the leadership. But she doesn't.

    And when the above happens we'll have another desperate round of 'we;ve got this covered' backside covering from May and her gaggle of civil servants.

    In fairness to May she's done a decent job of remaining in the next leader frame whilst handling what is probably Gov'ts trickiest department. It is normally a graveyard for ambition.
    I just can't comprehend the ramping for May. Lines at Heathrow. The backing of huge powers for GCHQ. Open cheating on citizenship tests. A new push for the snooper's charter. Huge numbers of illegal immigrants going missing. Backlogs in passport issuance. Opting into the EAW without a parliamentary vote. She's just not very capable a minister.
    I'm not aware of anyone outside of the Westminster press who has even entertained the idea that May could succeed Cameron.

    Get laying her on Betfair if you think the assessment is wrong then !
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The same Italian police that tried to make a scapegoat out of Amanda Knox?

    They had a perfectly good ethnic minority scapegoat lined up until a member of the Italian public inconveniently came forward and said he could not have done it.

    They were then obliged to actually investigate the case, by which time much of the crime scene evidence had been contaminated.
  • Cyclefree said:

    FPT: Richard Nabavi: You are talking, I'm sorry to say, rubbish on extradition. If we had remained opted out of the EAW, I've no doubt that we could have had appropriate extradition treaties with other EU countries.
    ...

    I am sure he's a very nice person, but in my (albeit short) time here so far, I have never seen Richard Nabavi taken a position opposed to the current Conservative Party leadership. Ever. Which as far as I am concerned means despite his posts being erudite and written persuasively, they come with zero weight. I glaze over before I reach the end. I wouldn't even know if he was actually making a valid point, because I just wouldn't know where to start looking for it amongst the impeccably argued GCHQ endorsed tripe.

    Thank you for the compliment. I do try to argue impeccably.

    However, you seem to have got things a bit the wrong way round. You seem to be starting from the conclusion that any position of the current Conservative leadership is by definition wrong, and that therefore any argument which supports, at least partially, that position must also be wrong, even if you can't see a flaw in the argument.

    Try keeping an open mind, and read what I actually say on its own merits. You might eventually discover that it is the arguments which lead to me supporting, in most cases, the current Conservative position on many issues. It is never the other way round.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    A

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT: Richard Nabavi: You are talking, I'm sorry to say, rubbish on extradition. If we had remained opted out of the EAW, I've no doubt that we could have had appropriate extradition treaties with other EU countries.

    And, if not, well we'd have survived. But at least it would have meant that British citizens would enjoy the advantages of British criminal law.

    And I'm well aware that it would also mean that we could not pursue people who fled abroad. But, as you put it, governing is about choosing. And May should have chosen to put the interests of the British first.

    Whereas in this case, the victim of a crime - a very serious crime - is facing the prospect of being prosecuted for reporting that crime. Given the very strong efforts that are being made to encourage the victims of sexual abuse to come forward, what message do you think such a case sends out?

    There are lots of cases where someone charged with rape is acquitted. It does not follow that the victim is then prosecuted for making a false allegation. Such a reaction would be absurd and contrary to the public interest. It is only in the most serious of cases that such action is even contemplated by the CPS. And as you will be aware there was the very recent tragic case of a young woman who killed herself when faced with exactly that prospect.

    May should tell the Italian Justice Minister that we are not going to extradite the victims of rape, that we expect the Italian police to investigate this crime thoroughly and that it is only if there is evidence which would justify the CPS here bringing a charge of obstructing the course of justice (taking into account the public interest in doing so etc) - to be tested by the CPS here according the British criminal legal standards - will we even contemplate extradition.

    Wouldn't Europe's criminals all hide here to avoid the legal process in their own country?
    They might. Better border controls would help. And we could have extradition treaties with the individual countries.

    The EAW would be a lot better if the country seeking the extradition had to show a prima facie case for the charge being made, which was essentially the law before the EAW was invented. It meant that if the evidence was non-existent or worthless or the offence did not exist under English law then there would be no extradition. It provided some protection against wholly unfounded, frivolous or malicious extradition requests. But this basic element of justice has been sacrificed for administrative convenience. I think that a bad thing.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    Got to be game set and match for Sainsbury's. Or rather: mission accomplished.

    High fives in the marketing dept.

    That rather depends on what the mission was.

    It is so similar to the Pipes of Peace video that I am astonished anyone was paid to come up with the idea

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2834465/Watchdog-primed-investigate-Sainsbury-s-Christmas-advert-complaints-flood-use-WWI-imagery-promote-company.html
    Double high-fives then - they didn't even need to come up with an original thought.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    edited November 2014
    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    Got to be game set and match for Sainsbury's. Or rather: mission accomplished.

    High fives in the marketing dept.

    That rather depends on what the mission was.

    It is so similar to the Pipes of Peace video that I am astonished anyone was paid to come up with the idea

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2834465/Watchdog-primed-investigate-Sainsbury-s-Christmas-advert-complaints-flood-use-WWI-imagery-promote-company.html
    What on earth are people complaining to Watchdog about? If you don't like the imagery then don't buy form Sainsburys. Why do we now have this hysterical group mentality where we try and get things banned cos we take some offence from it (or pretend to)?

    I also depressingly see that the petition to get Katy(?) Hopkins ARRESTED has reached a 1000. Apparently she has tweeted things 'offensive' to muslims . Can the UK please grow up!!
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT: Richard Nabavi: You are talking, I'm sorry to say, rubbish on extradition. If we had remained opted out of the EAW, I've no doubt that we could have had appropriate extradition treaties with other EU countries.
    ...

    I am sure he's a very nice person, but in my (albeit short) time here so far, I have never seen Richard Nabavi taken a position opposed to the current Conservative Party leadership. Ever. Which as far as I am concerned means despite his posts being erudite and written persuasively, they come with zero weight. I glaze over before I reach the end. I wouldn't even know if he was actually making a valid point, because I just wouldn't know where to start looking for it amongst the impeccably argued GCHQ endorsed tripe.

    CCHQ surely? In respect of Mr Nabavi's views, I'd suggest that you simply haven't been here long enough. I don't know of any regular poster who (trivially identifiable astroturfers and trolls apart) who cleave entirely to a party line.
  • isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    Got to be game set and match for Sainsbury's. Or rather: mission accomplished.

    High fives in the marketing dept.

    That rather depends on what the mission was.

    It is so similar to the Pipes of Peace video that I am astonished anyone was paid to come up with the idea

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2834465/Watchdog-primed-investigate-Sainsbury-s-Christmas-advert-complaints-flood-use-WWI-imagery-promote-company.html
    Shakespeare stole lots of his plots from other authors. It hasn't done his reputation any harm.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    Got to be game set and match for Sainsbury's. Or rather: mission accomplished.

    High fives in the marketing dept.

    That rather depends on what the mission was.

    It is so similar to the Pipes of Peace video that I am astonished anyone was paid to come up with the idea

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2834465/Watchdog-primed-investigate-Sainsbury-s-Christmas-advert-complaints-flood-use-WWI-imagery-promote-company.html
    What on earth are people complaining to Watchdog about? If you don't like the imagery then don't buy form Sainsburys. Why do we now have this hysterical group mentality where we try and get things banned cos we take some offence from it (or pretend to)?
    Oh yes I agree, I hope you don't think I am complaining about it... I just think its a shit tv advert, motivated by vanity, & capitalism disguised as charity. But I wouldn't ask for it to be banned,or not shop at Sainsbury's etc
  • Cyclefree said:

    I'm not making a judgment on the case.

    Ahem:

    "Whereas in this case, the victim of a crime - a very serious crime - is facing the prospect of being prosecuted for reporting that crime."

    Not much room for doubt there that you've made a judgement. No 'alleged', or 'possibly', or 'it is claimed that' or 'whilst we don't know the full facts, it might be that..'.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited November 2014
    antifrank said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    Got to be game set and match for Sainsbury's. Or rather: mission accomplished.

    High fives in the marketing dept.

    That rather depends on what the mission was.

    It is so similar to the Pipes of Peace video that I am astonished anyone was paid to come up with the idea

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2834465/Watchdog-primed-investigate-Sainsbury-s-Christmas-advert-complaints-flood-use-WWI-imagery-promote-company.html
    Shakespeare stole lots of his plots from other authors. It hasn't done his reputation any harm.
    My English teacher told me at school that there were something like 30? basic plots and essentially they were all done by the time of the Greeks or some such.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    antifrank said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    Got to be game set and match for Sainsbury's. Or rather: mission accomplished.

    High fives in the marketing dept.

    That rather depends on what the mission was.

    It is so similar to the Pipes of Peace video that I am astonished anyone was paid to come up with the idea

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2834465/Watchdog-primed-investigate-Sainsbury-s-Christmas-advert-complaints-flood-use-WWI-imagery-promote-company.html
    Shakespeare stole lots of his plots from other authors. It hasn't done his reputation any harm.
    Have you seen both videos? It isn't a case of stealing the plot as much as just copying it!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @CCHQPress: In an article titled ‘Here’s what I believe’ Ed Miliband has once again either forgotten or ignored the deficit: https://t.co/yc7wxt1hRH

    @SamCoatesTimes: Could the opening of this be any more patronising? https://t.co/Z66j5TEYN6

    @SamCoatesTimes: @SamCoatesTimes Dear voter. Are you simple? Well let me put this in words of one syllable
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    Pulpstar said:

    Quincel said:

    big disparity in where PP and Ladbrokes have put their 5/6 either way lines on SNP seats - 25.5 for PP and 20.5 for lads- one of them is wrong!!

    I reckon there's a disparity within Ladbrokes. SNP at 11/8 to win most seats in Scotland, but the over/under is 20.5. It's difficult to imagine them getting over 20 seats but not the most seats. Very narrow window of outcomes, to be honest.
    Scotland has 59 seats,

    Orkney and Shetland and most likely Ross, Skye and Lochaber are staying Lib Dem I'd guess

    Probably Caithness, Sutherland too.

    3 seats.

    The Tories probably gain 2 (Dumfries & Galloway & Aberdeen, Kincardine) on a very good night there (Are there any I've missed ?) ... @TSE's prediction of Edinburgh South is fanciful I feel.

    So that's 26.5 seats as the most seats "line", which is more or less in line with the 11-8 ?

    On a very, very, very good night for the SNP I think Tories + Lib Dems struggle to get to anywhere near 18 which is the implied line you'd need for a straight pseudo-arb.

    Or am I missing something big here ?


    Tories winning Berwickshire?
  • Here's a very neat example of how journalists work and of what happens if you don't confirm their preconceived notions:

    http://www.politics.hu/20141112/talk-of-dictatorship-empty-ideological-says-kertesz/

    You can see exactly what headline the New York Times journalist had got in mind.

    Hungary has pretty lousy politics, but it's a bit more complicated than just labelling it a dictatorship.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Itajai said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Quincel said:

    big disparity in where PP and Ladbrokes have put their 5/6 either way lines on SNP seats - 25.5 for PP and 20.5 for lads- one of them is wrong!!

    I reckon there's a disparity within Ladbrokes. SNP at 11/8 to win most seats in Scotland, but the over/under is 20.5. It's difficult to imagine them getting over 20 seats but not the most seats. Very narrow window of outcomes, to be honest.
    Scotland has 59 seats,

    Orkney and Shetland and most likely Ross, Skye and Lochaber are staying Lib Dem I'd guess

    Probably Caithness, Sutherland too.

    3 seats.

    The Tories probably gain 2 (Dumfries & Galloway & Aberdeen, Kincardine) on a very good night there (Are there any I've missed ?) ... @TSE's prediction of Edinburgh South is fanciful I feel.

    So that's 26.5 seats as the most seats "line", which is more or less in line with the 11-8 ?

    On a very, very, very good night for the SNP I think Tories + Lib Dems struggle to get to anywhere near 18 which is the implied line you'd need for a straight pseudo-arb.

    Or am I missing something big here ?


    Tories winning Berwickshire?
    Yes that's certainly possible.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2014
    MaxPB said:

    Surely the protection of British liberty and freedom is worth more than being part of some club and Dave being popular in Europe.

    For heaven's sake! You really think Cameron is wanting to be part of some club and popular in Europe?

    I don't know what it is that makes people lose all sense of reality when Europe is mentioned.

    Rather than invent daft theories to explain things, why not consider that I might actually be right, that the government has decided this is the least bad of the options available? By all means argue that they've got it wrong, but at least try to get your head round the idea that they might have considered the options and genuinely come to the conclusion which they say they have come to.
  • Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Pulpstar, I forget the play, but the Romeo and Juliet ending is, I believe, stolen from the Greeks.

    F1: Caterham may race in Abu Dhabi. Very surprised things seem rosier for them than Marussia:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30055510

    Horner doesn't think top teams should help smaller ones:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30052878

    It may've escaped his notice, he's only been team principle of Red Bull for something like a decade, but the Premier League has a certain number of teams. If four teams failed, it'd be no problem to promote four from the Championship.

    F1 has lost 2/11 teams. It needs a certain number. Customer cars and three car teams would be bloody awful. A team principle will always look out for his team, but it's not impossible to do that and still have one eye on the good of the sport overall.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Itajai said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Quincel said:

    big disparity in where PP and Ladbrokes have put their 5/6 either way lines on SNP seats - 25.5 for PP and 20.5 for lads- one of them is wrong!!

    I reckon there's a disparity within Ladbrokes. SNP at 11/8 to win most seats in Scotland, but the over/under is 20.5. It's difficult to imagine them getting over 20 seats but not the most seats. Very narrow window of outcomes, to be honest.
    Scotland has 59 seats,

    Orkney and Shetland and most likely Ross, Skye and Lochaber are staying Lib Dem I'd guess

    Probably Caithness, Sutherland too.

    3 seats.

    The Tories probably gain 2 (Dumfries & Galloway & Aberdeen, Kincardine) on a very good night there (Are there any I've missed ?) ... @TSE's prediction of Edinburgh South is fanciful I feel.

    So that's 26.5 seats as the most seats "line", which is more or less in line with the 11-8 ?

    On a very, very, very good night for the SNP I think Tories + Lib Dems struggle to get to anywhere near 18 which is the implied line you'd need for a straight pseudo-arb.

    Or am I missing something big here ?


    Tories winning Berwickshire?
    Yes that's certainly possible.
    A lot more possible than winning Dumfries I would imagine
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,054

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT: Richard Nabavi: You are talking, I'm sorry to say, rubbish on extradition. If we had remained opted out of the EAW, I've no doubt that we could have had appropriate extradition treaties with other EU countries.
    ...

    I am sure he's a very nice person, but in my (albeit short) time here so far, I have never seen Richard Nabavi taken a position opposed to the current Conservative Party leadership. Ever. Which as far as I am concerned means despite his posts being erudite and written persuasively, they come with zero weight. I glaze over before I reach the end. I wouldn't even know if he was actually making a valid point, because I just wouldn't know where to start looking for it amongst the impeccably argued GCHQ endorsed tripe.

    Thank you for the compliment. I do try to argue impeccably.

    However, you seem to have got things a bit the wrong way round. You seem to be starting from the conclusion that any position of the current Conservative leadership is by definition wrong, and that therefore any argument which supports, at least partially, that position must also be wrong, even if you can't see a flaw in the argument.

    Try keeping an open mind, and read what I actually say on its own merits. You might eventually discover that it is the arguments which lead to me supporting, in most cases, the current Conservative position on many issues. It is never the other way round.
    Richard you never got around to explaining why the snoopers charter and the investigative powers should lie with the executive rather than with the judiciary. Last time you avoided answering. Why was the enabling power held with the home secretary and not with magistrates? Please don't give me the same bullshit as you have with the EAW. Being more convenient is no excuse to trample over our liberty.
  • Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    Got to be game set and match for Sainsbury's. Or rather: mission accomplished.

    High fives in the marketing dept.

    That rather depends on what the mission was.

    It is so similar to the Pipes of Peace video that I am astonished anyone was paid to come up with the idea

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2834465/Watchdog-primed-investigate-Sainsbury-s-Christmas-advert-complaints-flood-use-WWI-imagery-promote-company.html
    Shakespeare stole lots of his plots from other authors. It hasn't done his reputation any harm.
    My English teacher told me at school that there were something like 30? basic plots and essentially they were all done by the time of the Greeks or some such.
    English teachers never have any imagination!!
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,549
    Looking at today's Populus the 2010 Labour retention is down to 68% (populus's figures are gross so include 13% as saying don't knows for 2010 L, which is comparatively high) This is the lowest ever figure, for comparison the 2010 C retention was 66% (fairly typical). Six months ago the 2010 Labour retention was averaging 77%. Unlike C which has got 17% going to UKIP, Labour's 2010 vote retention is reducing by going a more to LD, Nats and a big increase in 2010 L now saying don't know (now up to 13%).

    Whilst this is only one poll and a snapshot it is consistent with the trend in other recent Populus polls.

    The other noticeable feature so far this month is a reduction in 2010 LD now saying don't know and an increase in 2010 LD retention. Perhaps the current Labour troubles are helping uncertain Libdems return home.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Dear voter. Are you simple? Well let me put this in words of one syllable

    You have to remember that, for many of the people ed is looking to court, English may not be a first language.
  • MaxPB said:

    Richard you never got around to explaining why the snoopers charter and the investigative powers should lie with the executive rather than with the judiciary. Last time you avoided answering. Why was the enabling power held with the home secretary and not with magistrates?

    Because magistrates are not security-cleared, and by definition secret surveillance is secret.
This discussion has been closed.