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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour insider, Henry G Manson, on the changed mood within
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour insider, Henry G Manson, on the changed mood within the movement about EdM
The grassroots response to Ed Miliband’s recent leadership uncertainties showed more enthusiasm for his leadership than at any other time – including at the point of his election. While certain MPs were wobbling, the party’s foot soldiers and supporters were bashing out 60,000 tweets of support.
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After all, kippers idolise their Dear Leader, but unless UKIP can convince much, much more of the electorate to vote for them, they're not getting anywhere near being in power.
And: first!
Half of them were from Tories...
Why do we still think Ed is crap?
Ed is most definitely not crap! He is merely misunderstood, and I put it to you that is the chief reason why he is so maligned and ridiculed by the evil right-wing media.
I am certain you will agree with me that Ed is magnificently charismatic and eloquent. He is an inspiring and refreshing standard bearer for the social democratic tradition in our great nation. Yes, indeed: One Nation. Nay, his performance this morning must surely have been amongst the greatest (if not the greatest) ever given by a leader of the Labour Party, or indeed of any party leader! Such magnificence, such poise, such alacrity. Wow! And his wonderful repertoire of jokes would put even Harry Hill to shame!
He is articulate, passionate, an accomplished orator, and I think a real progressive alternative to the smarmy Bullingdon posh-boy Cameron.
Roll on 2015!
The smart way to think about this is not tax avoidance vs non-tax avoidance, but tax avoidance within the spirit of the law versus tax avoidance that aggressively seeks out unintentional loopholes in the law.
And tax efficient pan-EU corporate structures are expressly within the spirit of the EU laws for the single market - indeed summarise in some sense the whole point of it. Anyone who grumbles about tax avoidance but who does not simlutaneously argue for the winding down of the single market is a *&^%$@!! Tax is NOT being avoided within the EU, merely levied at the rate applicable to the relevant host nation as chosen by the company concerned.
BTW more and more companies are coming to the UK to be domiciled because they like our corporate tax rate. This is a GOOD thing for the UK.
What was the Kipper score in 2010 and what are they polling now?
DYOR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Miliband
Are these the people Ed has in his sights?
Lectures on zero tax from a man who was part of a government that failed to get anything out of Starbucks, the Swiss banks and Amazon really don't amount to a hill of beans.
Labour simply have to rid themselves of the pre-2010 ministerial cohort to earn a listen.
I'm sure Ed has the gimp vote sown up. It's white van man in Broxtowe he needs to convince. And Glasgow. But 'This is what a feminist looks like' T-shirts tickle those G-spots exactly.
I thought the manufactured tweets looked pitifully desperate - #6months&stillwaiting4myowl
There's currently a jack-up barge on site, raising the level of the pedestrian walkway at the breach site to the same level as the rest of the route, and the old containers are being cut up and removed.
Lots of photos on the following thread, including work after the line reopened.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81949-washout-at-dawlish/page-171
Tax Evasion - Either hiding economic activity (i.e. working cash in hand) to avoid having to declare income for taxation purposes or failing to pay tax that is due (by, errr, not paying)
Tax Avoidance - Adding unnecessary steps to an economic transaction, often through intermediary entities to exploit legislation to gain a tax advantage that was never intended by that legislation.
Great stuff Henry. Like a bit of passion.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/nov/05/-sp-luxembourg-tax-files-tax-avoidance-industrial-scale
Notice how the description of the corporate structure changes depending on whether it is being reported to Blueland or the Luxembourgh authorities.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-30040238
The only way I can think of would be to pick a fight with someone - Juncker, Merkel, Putin Xi? Some might say that was reckless (with a lower case R) rather than plucky...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#Graphical_summary
But Osborne has done more about this than any Chancellor since Lawson. And he needs to do a lot more. Bluntly, we need the money. And if that means another 50p on my cappuccino or £1 on the book I buy online or another £5 a month on my phone contract so be it. The playing field will then be level with domestic businesses, coffee shops, bookshops and, well I can't think of any honest phone companies but you get the idea.
FPT: and in response to RobC, who said this:-
"You know perfectly well OGH is referring to multi nationals like Vodafone, Amazon and the rest. ISAs are an incentive to save primarily unlike pro-actively locating your tax affairs in Luxembourg which is a deliberate and aggressive tax avoidance strategy. The fact you seek to make light of it suggests you are happy for these companies to continue undisturbed which rather proves his and my points."
I don't make light of anything.
I take rather seriously the importance of having the rule of law and if the law - which as Patrick has pointed out - permits companies or individuals to do something then it is juvenile, frankly, to pretend that a lucid criticism is being made simply by using the words "deliberate" and "aggressive" or, indeed, "pathetic".
Anyone who chooses an ISA is being deliberate. The motive is irrelevant. Anyone who has an ISA every single year could be described as "aggressive". You have no more idea of Amazon's motives than I do. They could be doing it for any number of reasons. But they are acting lawfully.
Just as those who have ISAs are.
If we are really concerned about raising more tax then get rid of ISAs. They are, after all, more likely to be held by those with more rather than less money so why not?
The criticism should be best directed at the politicians who make the laws. In this case, much of the law which permits the likes of Amazon to do what they do comes from the EU and Labour are one party who are pledged to stay in the EU and have never, to my knowledge, suggested changing the rules on the single market and the consequential effects on tax law to ensure that Amazon cannot do what they are currently doing.
[Is this a PB first?]
Since half Labour's grass roots live in London - how many of them are going to be canvassing in Glasgow?
London Labour loves London Ed.
But that may be part of the problem.
How do you craft -say - an immigration policy that appeals both to London Labour and Doncaster Labour?
In that spirit of humility I will admit I cant understand the Ashcroft poll tables
'"While certain MPs were wobbling, the party’s foot soldiers and supporters were bashing out 60,000 tweets of support."
Yes,right whatever.
"I was not the only radical courted by Lev. I had seen him with a Marxist economics tutor at the [London School of Economics]. I had discussed him in a veiled manner with the editor of Views who had also been having lunches with him. Members of the New Left Review crowd knew him as did activists I recognised from the Labour Party left. How many had failed to reject him as I did? How many had become suppliers of information to the KGB?"
One is reminded of the mass applause at certain events in North Korea....
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n22/ross-mckibbin/labour-vanishes?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=3622&hq_e=el&hq_m=3490345&hq_l=4&hq_v=a97c248798
A good Guardian article! (Have I ever said that in my life???).
It highlights the fact exquisitely - in an EU Single Market one country can game its competitors by lowering its tax rate. Ireland draws grief for a rate of 12.5%. But Luxembourg is just out and out taking the mickey at BELOW 1% and on a per case basis with Advanced Tax Agreements with companies. Can't blame the companies if Luxembourg is offering free money! It's not a country - it's a tax avoidance regime with independent nation status.
(Does anyone remember Offshore Banking Business by the Members? Great song!)
Hollande probably wants to chop Junckers' head off this afternoon!
I love the idea that backing the extraordinarily privileged position of public sector workers when it comes to their retirement packages is 'siding with the underdogs'. Certainly siding with that particular vested interest doesn't sound a terribly bold move for a Labour leader. It would be more impressive if he told them about the reality.
Half of them were from Tories...
While we're about it, let's all have a good look at the Guardian's corporate structure and how they use the corporate structures available in the Cayman Isles to minimise their tax bill. This could be described as avoidance and aggressive and deliberate and not in the spirit of the law.
But really the issue here is what the law is and who is responsible for making the laws. What the Vodafones and Amazons and Guardians of this world are doing is enabled by the politicians who have made the laws under which they operate. If Labour want to change the laws so that these companies more, great - but let's hear the actual proposals and how they are going to work because so far there's been tumbleweed......
Is this commonly held idea actually correct, or just an argument for the anti-English liberal brigade to justify breaking up England, which has been one nation rather successfully for a thousand years?
Extrapolating the argument out, the differences between the Scottish Highlands, Lowlands and Isles should mean Scotland does not remain one nation either. How far does one go? Kent may feel no affinity with its fellow 'Home County' of, say, Essex. Should Kent have its own parliament?
"All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself..."
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/avoidance/overview.htm
Twas a rather short lived campaign - but highly amusing before being abandoned.
'Extrapolating the argument out, the differences between the Scottish Highlands, Lowlands and Isles should mean Scotland does not remain one nation either. How far does one go? '
But devolution for the Scottish Highlands would be decided by the Scottish parliament just as devolution for the North East should be decided by an English parliament.
When ComRes included UKIP in their initial prompt they saw a 5 point jump in the UKIP VI.
http://www.comres.co.uk/poll/1293/sunday-mirror-independent-on-sunday-poll.htm
I was against the idea for a long time as it seemed a one way street to tax stich ups over 1984 Bordeaux's but the fact of the matter is that tax sweetheart deals happen right now under the letter-of-the-law system and a GAAR system would help make things clearer.
Table 3 has 571 respondents.. Overall there were 1002... 318 were DNV/DK or Refused, that leaves over 100 that I cant find... where are they?!
In the meantime, a public record of everyone's tax affairs so the rich who feel they don't have to contribute are named and shamed, people can choose not to go to businesses who don't pay taxes, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
Pays yer money..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKRvctW4wTc
(Which he will then lose and be dumped a week later.)
#saveEd
Pie in the sky. How can the leader of one nation implement a 'global' crackdown on tax avoidance...???
@Cyclefree re: legal tax avoidance
You correctly point out that this tax avoidance is legal and therefore legitimate, but is it not equally legitimate for the consumer to be aware that legal or not, this activity operates against their economic interests, and therefore to change their buying activities accordingly?
I choose to buy most of my online junk from Tesco Direct these days in preference to Amazon. They at least have their tax base in the UK. Likewise if one wants an overpriced Latte and all other things are equal, why not choose Costa (UK) over Starbucks?
Why should you expect consumers to operate against their own economic interests when you don't expect the same of companies?
"[near Southend] was the low, gull-swept estuary, the marriage bed of salt and fresh water, stretching as far as I could see from my northern Essex bank, toward a thin black horizon on the other side. That would be Kent, the sinister enemy who always seemed to beat us in the County Cricket Championship."
No charisma and loads of faults.
Ed dodging Nige makes it difficult for him to moan about Dave dodging Ed.
LOL. If I was ed I really would go with that response.....
Maybe there is a “powerful force” that doesn’t want Miliband to be Prime Minister: it’s called the electorate.
LOL...
What you really need here is a government / chancellor who can actually manage shit and understand how the world works. I have about 1,000,000% more faith in Ozzy succeeding in squeezing some tax out of Google / Starbucks/etc than Ed useless gimp effing Miliband.
Farage vs Miliband.
Whoever wins... we'll enjoy it.
You appear to be unaware that Tesco is one of the largest users of tax avoidance..
"The UK's 100 biggest public companies are running more than 8,000 subsidiaries or joint ventures in onshore and offshore tax havens, according to research published on Monday, raising fresh concerns about the full extent of corporate tax avoidance.
The figures, published by the charity ActionAid, show that only two of the companies listed on the UK's FTSE 100 have no subsidiaries in tax havens – while companies such as Barclays and Tesco own hundreds"