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  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited October 2014
    Itajai said:

    Icarus said:

    Indigo said:



    My brother-in-law is a GP Partner trying to fill empty slots in his rural practice, he has the budget but can't get the applicants. The stated reason for the few interviewers he has not taking the job is because they got an offer for a similar job in Australia for about double the money, and doing about half the hours - hard to compete with that...

    If everyone else banned immigrants, which is what UKIP seem to want for us, then nobody would be able leave their country.

    I am pretty sure business travellers and tourists are not included.
    I think they also mentioned the Australian points system. Before we get too carried away here we should remember that both Germany and France currently require a concrete job offer and carry out a range of other checks for anyone immigrating from outside the EU.

  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721

    taffys said:

    Audreyanne

    Breathtaking arrogance and complacency. Simply breathtaking.

    Nah it's just pragmatism. Been here, done that, soooooooo many times. From Clegasms to the SDP I've heard it all before.

    The only sad thing is that on May 8th the kipper-bangers on here will be gone so the amusement will have to be vicarious.

    Right, I have some work to do.
    The party structure is generally stable, it's true. It's not, however, immutable. Most obviously, the Labour Party replaced the Liberals in the first half of the century. True, they were helped by the Liberals in that process, partly by the expanding electorate, partly by pre-1918 pacts, and partly by splitting in 1916 and 1931. Even so, the Liberals went from having formed the government during WWI to only contesting 112 seats (of which they won just 33) after the 1931 election.

    There are plenty of examples of other once-leading parties across the world which the electorate has discarded. Where now are:

    Canadian Progressive Conservatives
    Italian Christian Democrats
    Italian Socialist Party
    Dutch Christian Democrats
    PASOK of Greece

    To name but a few of the top of my head?

    UCD in Spain
    Most Turkish parties from the 70s and 80s
  • Itajai said:

    taffys said:

    Audreyanne

    Breathtaking arrogance and complacency. Simply breathtaking.

    Nah it's just pragmatism. Been here, done that, soooooooo many times. From Clegasms to the SDP I've heard it all before.

    The only sad thing is that on May 8th the kipper-bangers on here will be gone so the amusement will have to be vicarious.

    Right, I have some work to do.
    The party structure is generally stable, it's true. It's not, however, immutable. Most obviously, the Labour Party replaced the Liberals in the first half of the century. True, they were helped by the Liberals in that process, partly by the expanding electorate, partly by pre-1918 pacts, and partly by splitting in 1916 and 1931. Even so, the Liberals went from having formed the government during WWI to only contesting 112 seats (of which they won just 33) after the 1931 election.

    There are plenty of examples of other once-leading parties across the world which the electorate has discarded. Where now are:

    Canadian Progressive Conservatives
    Italian Christian Democrats
    Italian Socialist Party
    Dutch Christian Democrats
    PASOK of Greece

    To name but a few of the top of my head?

    UCD in Spain
    Most Turkish parties from the 70s and 80s
    India's Congress Party?
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    Indigo said:

    MikeK said:

    felix said:

    UKIP have the field right now because of their strong line on immigration, the EU, the unpopularity of the coalition and the weakness of Labour. However, they are little different from the rest because they offer Utopia for free. They like all the rest want to ignore the economic realities that living standards in Western Europe have to continue to decline for a good few years yet and no magic wand can change this.

    Absolute bollocks, my dear @felix. UKIP is the only party - if you care to listen - that is saying that changing British politics will be a hard struggle, and will not be easily won.
    The problem is only partly the politics. The real problem, so to speak, is the public, that has sat through too many years of "something for nothing" and "all must have prizes" and can't deal with the realities of life - that there is no magic money tree, and that the country is spending over 100bn quid every year it doesn't have.

    People dont realise that its not a question of trimming a bit here and there, its a question of the government not doing whole classes of things for you that it currently does, but not being able to reduce taxes significantly, and then spending at least a decade paying off the 1.5 TRILLION pounds we owe other people before we can even consider increasing provision again.

    This isnt a political statement, it's not even really an economic statement, its basic arithmetic,

    Then we have the hysterical campaigns against tax havens and tax avoidance. These exist because of punitive taxation rates. Why doesn´t the State simply spend more.

    The answer is there are too many snouts in the trough.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721

    Itajai said:

    taffys said:

    Audreyanne

    Breathtaking arrogance and complacency. Simply breathtaking.

    Nah it's just pragmatism. Been here, done that, soooooooo many times. From Clegasms to the SDP I've heard it all before.

    The only sad thing is that on May 8th the kipper-bangers on here will be gone so the amusement will have to be vicarious.

    Right, I have some work to do.
    The party structure is generally stable, it's true. It's not, however, immutable. Most obviously, the Labour Party replaced the Liberals in the first half of the century. True, they were helped by the Liberals in that process, partly by the expanding electorate, partly by pre-1918 pacts, and partly by splitting in 1916 and 1931. Even so, the Liberals went from having formed the government during WWI to only contesting 112 seats (of which they won just 33) after the 1931 election.

    There are plenty of examples of other once-leading parties across the world which the electorate has discarded. Where now are:

    Canadian Progressive Conservatives
    Italian Christian Democrats
    Italian Socialist Party
    Dutch Christian Democrats
    PASOK of Greece

    To name but a few of the top of my head?

    UCD in Spain
    Most Turkish parties from the 70s and 80s
    India's Congress Party?
    They still seem to be the official opposition. And they have been so a couple of times since 1990s.
  • Itajai said:

    Itajai said:

    taffys said:

    Audreyanne

    Breathtaking arrogance and complacency. Simply breathtaking.

    Nah it's just pragmatism. Been here, done that, soooooooo many times. From Clegasms to the SDP I've heard it all before.

    The only sad thing is that on May 8th the kipper-bangers on here will be gone so the amusement will have to be vicarious.

    Right, I have some work to do.
    The party structure is generally stable, it's true. It's not, however, immutable. Most obviously, the Labour Party replaced the Liberals in the first half of the century. True, they were helped by the Liberals in that process, partly by the expanding electorate, partly by pre-1918 pacts, and partly by splitting in 1916 and 1931. Even so, the Liberals went from having formed the government during WWI to only contesting 112 seats (of which they won just 33) after the 1931 election.

    There are plenty of examples of other once-leading parties across the world which the electorate has discarded. Where now are:

    Canadian Progressive Conservatives
    Italian Christian Democrats
    Italian Socialist Party
    Dutch Christian Democrats
    PASOK of Greece

    To name but a few of the top of my head?

    UCD in Spain
    Most Turkish parties from the 70s and 80s
    India's Congress Party?
    They still seem to be the official opposition. And they have been so a couple of times since 1990s.
    True but 44 seats out of 545 is kinda LibDem-level of representation in Parliament. Just five years ago they won 206, and 30 years ago they won a massive 415!
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Itajai said:

    Indigo said:

    MikeK said:

    felix said:

    UKIP have the field right now because of their strong line on immigration, the EU, the unpopularity of the coalition and the weakness of Labour. However, they are little different from the rest because they offer Utopia for free. They like all the rest want to ignore the economic realities that living standards in Western Europe have to continue to decline for a good few years yet and no magic wand can change this.

    Absolute bollocks, my dear @felix. UKIP is the only party - if you care to listen - that is saying that changing British politics will be a hard struggle, and will not be easily won.
    The problem is only partly the politics. The real problem, so to speak, is the public, that has sat through too many years of "something for nothing" and "all must have prizes" and can't deal with the realities of life - that there is no magic money tree, and that the country is spending over 100bn quid every year it doesn't have.

    People dont realise that its not a question of trimming a bit here and there, its a question of the government not doing whole classes of things for you that it currently does, but not being able to reduce taxes significantly, and then spending at least a decade paying off the 1.5 TRILLION pounds we owe other people before we can even consider increasing provision again.

    This isnt a political statement, it's not even really an economic statement, its basic arithmetic,

    Then we have the hysterical campaigns against tax havens and tax avoidance. These exist because of punitive taxation rates. Why doesn´t the State simply spend more.

    The answer is there are too many snouts in the trough.
    Spend more what... the state is broke, its in hock for one and a half trillion pounds. Politicians know this, but they also know that after 13 years of Blair the public feel entitled to things the country cant afford, but no one gets elected by saying that (see the huge amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth that has been made against government cuts that are little more than a rounding error compared to what is required!)

    The left tell everyone they can pay for stuff by soaking the rich, even if they could do this without the rich running away, there simply are not enough "rich", if you taxed them all at 100%, you wouldn't even scratch the national debt.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Things going well for Ed The Younger today then? ;)
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Indigo said:

    Itajai said:

    Icarus said:

    Indigo said:



    My brother-in-law is a GP Partner trying to fill empty slots in his rural practice, he has the budget but can't get the applicants. The stated reason for the few interviewers he has not taking the job is because they got an offer for a similar job in Australia for about double the money, and doing about half the hours - hard to compete with that...

    If everyone else banned immigrants, which is what UKIP seem to want for us, then nobody would be able leave their country.

    I am pretty sure business travellers and tourists are not included.
    I think they also mentioned the Australian points system. Before we get too carried away here we should remember that both Germany and France currently require a concrete job offer and carry out a range of other checks for anyone immigrating from outside the EU.

    one could posit that that's part of the reason London is such an economic powerhouse
  • Itajai said:

    AndyJS said:

    The Tory candidate in Rochester is "absolutely" against people from Bristol being eligible for social housing in Rochester unless they've lived there for five years:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkqa4Yduikc


    Does the same apply to immigrants, EU or non-EU?

    Or would that be racist? So, Bristol - NO, Pakistan - YES

    Excuse me, Ital, I have relatives in Bristol.

    Rochester would be well advised to keep them out.


  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    one could posit that that's part of the reason London is such an economic powerhouse

    One could posit all sorts of things, I would be interested to see any supporting evidence, and especially evidence that offsets that supposed gain against the cost of supporting other people who entered the country with the intentions of contributing rather less.

  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Indigo said:

    one could posit that that's part of the reason London is such an economic powerhouse

    One could posit all sorts of things, I would be interested to see any supporting evidence, and especially evidence that offsets that supposed gain against the cost of supporting other people who entered the country with the intentions of contributing rather less.

    i thought you were all followers of Ayn Rand and self-interest round here? Anyway, I shall bid you goodnight.

    There's not a lot of joy here on pb the last few days. I shall away and avail myself of some cat videos or something.

    xx
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    dr_spyn said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Guardian on Bristol West and Green Chances.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/25/green-party-surge-bristol-west

    Ask youself are the LDs so hamstrung that they would lose this seat to The Greens? Bear in mind for every 1 vote for the Watermelons, 13 went to the LDs, 8 to Labour. Williams the LD had 48% vote share, then Labour with 27% and the Greens on 3.8%. The Greens could still take votes enough votes off Labour & Williams still gets in.

    Difficult to take the article too seriously when it's sub-header says "Polls this week put the Greens on 8%, overtaking the Lib Dems for the first time in a decade and providing a clear challenge to Ukip in the east"

    For the first time in a decade? Technically true but implying that the Greens were ahead of the Lib Dems c 2004. In fact, they were nowhere unusual, floating around in low single figures while the Lib Dems were basking in their post-Iraq popularity and within ten points of first place. "First time in about a quarter of a century" would be more accurate.

    That said, if the Greens, rather than Labour, is the main challenger to the Lib Dems given where the parties finished in 2010, it doesn't say much for Miliband's men.
    Tory Candidate had 5x Green vote.

    Williams faces completely new field from 2010. Greens may have picked up some Council seats from LDs, but have been celebrating 500th members in Bristol. It would be a huge sensation if they did gain it, but from a base of 3.8% their goal almost seems delusional?

    This seems as good a time as any to plug my thoughts on the Greens' prospects next year:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/a-short-story-greens-target-list-for.html
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2014
    Betfair, next PM:

    Ed Miliband: 2.02
    Boris Johnson: 5.9
    Theresa May: 14
    George Osborne: 16
    Philip Hammond: 30
    Chuka Umunna: 32
    Michael Gove: 36
    Yvette Cooper: 38
    Nigel Farage: 40
    Sajid Javid: 42
    Andy Burnham: 42
    David Miliband: 48

    http://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/market?id=1.105756340
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2014
    Just UKIP are still to select for Bristol West. Other candidates:

    Con: Claire Hiscott
    https://twitter.com/ClaireHiscott
    Lab: Thangam Debbonaire
    https://twitter.com/tdebbonaire
    LD: Stephen Williams
    https://twitter.com/swilliamsmp
    Green: Darren Hall
    https://twitter.com/paleblueCIC
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    edited October 2014

    Itajai said:

    Itajai said:

    taffys said:

    Audreyanne

    Breathtaking arrogance and complacency. Simply breathtaking.

    Nah it's just pragmatism. Been here, done that, soooooooo many times. From Clegasms to the SDP I've heard it all before.

    The only sad thing is that on May 8th the kipper-bangers on here will be gone so the amusement will have to be vicarious.

    Right, I have some work to do.
    The party structure is generally stable, it's true. It's not, however, immutable. Most obviously, the Labour Party replaced the Liberals in the first half of the century. True, they were helped by the Liberals in that process, partly by the expanding electorate, partly by pre-1918 pacts, and partly by splitting in 1916 and 1931. Even so, the Liberals went from having formed the government during WWI to only contesting 112 seats (of which they won just 33) after the 1931 election.

    There are plenty of examples of other once-leading parties across the world which the electorate has discarded. Where now are:

    Canadian Progressive Conservatives
    Italian Christian Democrats
    Italian Socialist Party
    Dutch Christian Democrats
    PASOK of Greece

    To name but a few of the top of my head?

    UCD in Spain
    Most Turkish parties from the 70s and 80s
    India's Congress Party?
    They still seem to be the official opposition. And they have been so a couple of times since 1990s.
    True but 44 seats out of 545 is kinda LibDem-level of representation in Parliament. Just five years ago they won 206, and 30 years ago they won a massive 415!

    True! Was thinking more about their coalition but you're right.

    Although their big win in 1984/85 was after Indira got assassinated.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited October 2014
    Been out - work, work trying to claw back my likely tory rochester losses..... the pig-dog traitor won't win in May at least but that won't save my money.

    Whose joined the "Ed out" gang since Dan, Len, Johann and Tony?
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited October 2014
    Labour selection in Swansea East is won by Carolyn Harris who works for the retiring MP

    http://www.carolynharris4labour.co.uk/

    Sheffield Brightside & Hillsborough CLP select the replacement for Blunkett tomorrow

    IIRC the Tories are selecting the new candidate in Havant today
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT Does anyone here know if there's a way to stop Firefox's memory leaking? Mine is eating 2Gb every few hours and it's a right pain in the arse. I'm on version 33.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    new thread
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Plato said:

    OT Does anyone here know if there's a way to stop Firefox's memory leaking? Mine is eating 2Gb every few hours and it's a right pain in the arse. I'm on version 33.

    I'm using version 3.6.28 from 2012. No problems with it so I probably can't help.
This discussion has been closed.