There was IIRC a petition asking for the two murderers of Lee Rigby to be tried for treason as well as murder. Seems sensible to me. If you completely reject our society and actively fight against it, then take what's coming...
The whole point of the people who murdered Lee Rigby was that they were claiming that they were "soldiers" "at war with the UK" etc. etc. Yes, they committed and were jailed for the murder, which had political significance in their eyes. I take the point that it doesn't make a great deal of difference in their cases, but what do we do with UK Citizens, who fight against us, renounce their allegiance and throw in their lot with another regime. That, surely is the definition of treason?
What about folks with dual citizenship, like me? I've sworn allegiance to another regime. Still have my UK passport too though.
But while you may have dual citizenship, you have not (as far as I know!!) fought against either State that you are a Citizen of, renounced your allegiance to either State or claimed adherence to a third regime that is totally hostile to the first two. During WW2, there were sad cases of people with UK / German citizenship who had to make their minds up as to which side to cast their loyalty. They were not normally in danger of indictment for treason though.
Some countries - Norway for example - don't allow dual citizenship.
But you do have to swear
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen
I wonder how many new Americans could define 'abjure'.
Renouncing your allegiance to the Queen is not exactly treason. There are plenty of UK republicans who never felt an allegiance in the first place!
I did it for business reasons - I was working at a nuclear weapons facility.
I did call the UK consulate in Atlanta and ask about it. They understood completely and said it was no problem. I'm quite surprised how many people I know here with dual citizenship.
I'm just waiting for the first US presidential candidate with dual citizenship. People are going to freak out.
How does having two passports work when travelling between two countries? I assume you leave the US on a US passport and enter the UK on a UK one, but don't airlines require you to use the same one at both ends these days?
No, you don't. You just have to be a "natural born citizenship", which means born as an American citizen. If you're born abroad to an American parent you still count.
No, you don't. You just have to be a "natural born citizenship", which means born as an American citizen. If you're born abroad to an American parent you still count.
Bad phrasing - that's what I meant to say.
I'm watching a CFL game, and then will watch a college football game. My mind is exploding adjusting to the differences between CFL, NFL and college.
There was IIRC a petition asking for the two murderers of Lee Rigby to be tried for treason as well as murder. Seems sensible to me. If you completely reject our society and actively fight against it, then take what's coming...
The whole point of the people who murdered Lee Rigby was that they were claiming that they were "soldiers" "at war with the UK" etc. etc. Yes, they committed and were jailed for the murder, which had political significance in their eyes. I take the point that it doesn't make a great deal of difference in their cases, but what do we do with UK Citizens, who fight against us, renounce their allegiance and throw in their lot with another regime. That, surely is the definition of treason?
What about folks with dual citizenship, like me? I've sworn allegiance to another regime. Still have my UK passport too though.
But while you may have dual citizenship, you have not (as far as I know!!) fought against either State that you are a Citizen of, renounced your allegiance to either State or claimed adherence to a third regime that is totally hostile to the first two. During WW2, there were sad cases of people with UK / German citizenship who had to make their minds up as to which side to cast their loyalty. They were not normally in danger of indictment for treason though.
Some countries - Norway for example - don't allow dual citizenship.
But you do have to swear
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen
I wonder how many new Americans could define 'abjure'.
Renouncing your allegiance to the Queen is not exactly treason. There are plenty of UK republicans who never felt an allegiance in the first place!
I did it for business reasons - I was working at a nuclear weapons facility.
I did call the UK consulate in Atlanta and ask about it. They understood completely and said it was no problem. I'm quite surprised how many people I know here with dual citizenship.
I'm just waiting for the first US presidential candidate with dual citizenship. People are going to freak out.
There was IIRC a petition asking for the two murderers of Lee Rigby to be tried for treason as well as murder. Seems sensible to me. If you completely reject our society and actively fight against it, then take what's coming...
The whole point of the people who murdered Lee Rigby was that they were claiming that they were "soldiers" "at war with the UK" etc. etc. Yes, they committed and were jailed for the murder, which had political significance in their eyes. I take the point that it doesn't make a great deal of difference in their cases, but what do we do with UK Citizens, who fight against us, renounce their allegiance and throw in their lot with another regime. That, surely is the definition of treason?
What about folks with dual citizenship, like me? I've sworn allegiance to another regime. Still have my UK passport too though.
But while you may have dual citizenship, you have not (as far as I know!!) fought against either State that you are a Citizen of, renounced your allegiance to either State or claimed adherence to a third regime that is totally hostile to the first two. During WW2, there were sad cases of people with UK / German citizenship who had to make their minds up as to which side to cast their loyalty. They were not normally in danger of indictment for treason though.
Some countries - Norway for example - don't allow dual citizenship.
But you do have to swear
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen
I wonder how many new Americans could define 'abjure'.
Renouncing your allegiance to the Queen is not exactly treason. There are plenty of UK republicans who never felt an allegiance in the first place!
I did it for business reasons - I was working at a nuclear weapons facility.
I did call the UK consulate in Atlanta and ask about it. They understood completely and said it was no problem. I'm quite surprised how many people I know here with dual citizenship.
I'm just waiting for the first US presidential candidate with dual citizenship. People are going to freak out.
You have to be born in the US to be prez.
Now let's not go there. The Constitution says "natural born citizen", not "born in the US"...
How does having two passports work when travelling between two countries? I assume you leave the US on a US passport and enter the UK on a UK one, but don't airlines require you to use the same one at both ends these days?
By law you must leave and enter the USA on your US passport. If going to the UK or EU I will use my UK passport for entry or exit. It's more convenient. The airlines could care less so long as you have a valid passport, except for customs forms for US citizens on reentry.
There was IIRC a petition asking for the two murderers of Lee Rigby to be tried for treason as well as murder. Seems sensible to me. If you completely reject our society and actively fight against it, then take what's coming...
The whole point of the people who murdered Lee Rigby was that they were claiming that they were "soldiers" "at war with the UK" etc. etc. Yes, they committed and were jailed for the murder, which had political significance in their eyes. I take the point that it doesn't make a great deal of difference in their cases, but what do we do with UK Citizens, who fight against us, renounce their allegiance and throw in their lot with another regime. That, surely is the definition of treason?
What about folks with dual citizenship, like me? I've sworn allegiance to another regime. Still have my UK passport too though.
But while you may have dual citizenship, you have not (as far as I know!!) fought against either State that you are a Citizen of, renounced your allegiance to either State or claimed adherence to a third regime that is totally hostile to the first two. During WW2, there were sad cases of people with UK / German citizenship who had to make their minds up as to which side to cast their loyalty. They were not normally in danger of indictment for treason though.
Some countries - Norway for example - don't allow dual citizenship.
But you do have to swear
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen
I wonder how many new Americans could define 'abjure'.
Renouncing your allegiance to the Queen is not exactly treason. There are plenty of UK republicans who never felt an allegiance in the first place!
I did it for business reasons - I was working at a nuclear weapons facility.
I did call the UK consulate in Atlanta and ask about it. They understood completely and said it was no problem. I'm quite surprised how many people I know here with dual citizenship.
I'm just waiting for the first US presidential candidate with dual citizenship. People are going to freak out.
The whole point of the people who murdered Lee Rigby was that they were claiming that they were "soldiers" "at war with the UK" etc. etc. Yes, they committed and were jailed for the murder, which had political significance in their eyes. I take the point that it doesn't make a great deal of difference in their cases, but what do we do with UK Citizens, who fight against us, renounce their allegiance and throw in their lot with another regime. That, surely is the definition of treason?
What about folks with dual citizenship, like me? I've sworn allegiance to another regime. Still have my UK passport too though.
But while you may have dual citizenship, you have not (as far as I know!!) fought against either State that you are a Citizen of, renounced your allegiance to either State or claimed adherence to a third regime that is totally hostile to the first two. During WW2, there were sad cases of people with UK / German citizenship who had to make their minds up as to which side to cast their loyalty. They were not normally in danger of indictment for treason though.
Some countries - Norway for example - don't allow dual citizenship.
But you do have to swear
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen
I wonder how many new Americans could define 'abjure'.
Renouncing your allegiance to the Queen is not exactly treason. There are plenty of UK republicans who never felt an allegiance in the first place!
I did it for business reasons - I was working at a nuclear weapons facility.
I did call the UK consulate in Atlanta and ask about it. They understood completely and said it was no problem. I'm quite surprised how many people I know here with dual citizenship.
I'm just waiting for the first US presidential candidate with dual citizenship. People are going to freak out.
You have to be born in the US to be prez.
Now let's not go there. The Constitution says "natural born citizen", not "born in the US"...
I already walked that back - watching football while posting. Not a good idea.
No, you don't. You just have to be a "natural born citizenship", which means born as an American citizen. If you're born abroad to an American parent you still count.
The Constitution says "natural born citizen", not "born as an American citizen" (by the operation of statute)...
No, you don't. You just have to be a "natural born citizenship", which means born as an American citizen. If you're born abroad to an American parent you still count.
The Constitution says "natural born citizen", not "born as an American citizen" (by the operation of statute)...
I recall that some while back there was an extensive and tedious discussion on what exactly a 'natural born citizen' meant.
There was IIRC a petition asking for the two murderers of Lee Rigby to be tried for treason as well as murder. Seems sensible to me. If you completely reject our society and actively fight against it, then take what's coming...
The whole point of the people who murdered Lee Ri?
What about folks with dual citizenship, like me? I've sworn allegiance to another regime. Still have my UK passport too though.
But while you may have dual citizenship, you have not (as far as I know!!) fought against either State that you are a Citizen of, renounced your allegiance to either State or claimed adherence to a third regime that is totally hostile to the first two. During WW2, there were sad cases of people with UK / German citizenship who had to make their minds up as to which side to cast their loyalty. They were not normally in danger of indictment for treason though.
Some countries - Norway for example - don't allow dual citizenship.
But you do have to swear
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen
I wonder how many new Americans could define 'abjure'.
Renouncing your allegiance to the Queen is not exactly treason. There are plenty of UK republicans who never felt an allegiance in the first place!
I did it for business reasons - I was working at a nuclear weapons facility.
I did call the UK consulate in Atlanta and ask about it. They understood completely and said it was no problem. I'm quite surprised how many people I know here with dual citizenship.
I'm just waiting for the first US presidential candidate with dual citizenship. People are going to freak out.
You have to be born in the US to be prez.
Now let's not go there. The Constitution says "natural born citizen", not "born in the US"...
True. Two recent presidential candidates were not born in the USA.
Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona Territory and John McCain in the Panama Canal Zone.
How does having two passports work when travelling between two countries? I assume you leave the US on a US passport and enter the UK on a UK one, but don't airlines require you to use the same one at both ends these days?
I known an ex-American who naturalized Japanese. To do this you have to give up your US citizenship, but renouncing US citizenship is an arduous and complicated process, consisting of multiple interviews where you have to assure them that you really, really mean it. He had some weird state in between during which he had to go to the US on business and come back during the process, resulting in some situation that the Japanese system didn't know how to cope with. The Japanese immigration official advised him to enter the country with his US passport via the foreigner line and pretend to be a tourist, but never go through that line again, because after a few months his US self was going to be considered to have overstayed his visa.
I'm not sure what this does to the net migration statistics - presumably the Japanese computer systems think there are at least two of him living there.
No, you don't. You just have to be a "natural born citizenship", which means born as an American citizen. If you're born abroad to an American parent you still count.
The Constitution says "natural born citizen", not "born as an American citizen" (by the operation of statute)...
I recall that some while back there was an extensive and tedious discussion on what exactly a 'natural born citizen' meant.
It can only mean one thing. "Naturally" an American citizen at birth, by the operation of Nature. Born on the soil of parents who are citizens. No doubts about citizenship. See Minor v Happersett (1875); United States v Wong Kim Ark (1898); Luria v United States (1913) [look for original sources, not Wikipedia, which has Obot gatekeepers erasing history]
How does having two passports work when travelling between two countries? I assume you leave the US on a US passport and enter the UK on a UK one, but don't airlines require you to use the same one at both ends these days?
I known an ex-American who naturalized Japanese. To do this you have to give up your US citizenship, but renouncing US citizenship is an arduous and complicated process, consisting of multiple interviews where you have to assure them that you really, really mean it. He had some weird state in between during which he had to go to the US on business and come back during the process, resulting in some situation that the Japanese system didn't know how to cope with. The Japanese immigration official advised him to enter the country with his US passport via the foreigner line and pretend to be a tourist, but never go through that line again, because after a few months his US self was going to be considered to have overstayed his visa.
I'm not sure what this does to the net migration statistics - presumably the Japanese computer systems think there are at least two of him living there.
I've never understood why countries don't allow dual citizenship. I was born and raised in England, of English parents. They are my roots. I live in the US, where I make my living, where my daughter was born, and where I will stay. It makes sense to be a citizen of where you live, yet still retain your roots.
Lee Harvey Oswald tried to renounce his US citizenship.
No, you don't. You just have to be a "natural born citizenship", which means born as an American citizen. If you're born abroad to an American parent you still count.
The Constitution says "natural born citizen", not "born as an American citizen" (by the operation of statute)...
I recall that some while back there was an extensive and tedious discussion on what exactly a 'natural born citizen' meant.
It can only mean one thing. "Naturally" an American citizen at birth, by the operation of Nature. Born on the soil of parents who are citizens. No doubts about citizenship. See Minor v Happersett (1875); United States v Wong Kim Ark (1898); Luria v United States (1913) [look for original sources, not Wikipedia, which has Obot gatekeepers erasing history]
How does having two passports work when travelling between two countries? I assume you leave the US on a US passport and enter the UK on a UK one, but don't airlines require you to use the same one at both ends these days?
I known an ex-American who naturalized Japanese. To do this you have to give up your US citizenship, but renouncing US citizenship is an arduous and complicated process, consisting of multiple interviews where you have to assure them that you really, really mean it. He had some weird state in between during which he had to go to the US on business and come back during the process, resulting in some situation that the Japanese system didn't know how to cope with. The Japanese immigration official advised him to enter the country with his US passport via the foreigner line and pretend to be a tourist, but never go through that line again, because after a few months his US self was going to be considered to have overstayed his visa.
I'm not sure what this does to the net migration statistics - presumably the Japanese computer systems think there are at least two of him living there.
I've never understood why countries don't allow dual citizenship. I was born and raised in England, of English parents. They are my roots. I live in the US, where I make my living, where my daughter was born, and where I will stay. It makes sense to be a citizen of where you live, yet still retain your roots.
Lee Harvey Oswald tried to renounce his US citizenship.
If the logic of it is that you're supposed to bear allegiance to a country then it seems reasonable to say you can only bear allegiance to one. I mean, what if they have a fight?
The idea of allegiance to a territory or government seems sick and twisted to me, but that's probably an argument against the whole concept of citizenship.
True. Two recent presidential candidates were not born in the USA.
Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona Territory and John McCain in the Panama Canal Zone.
Neither of them were elected. There are several other recent (minor) candidates who prima facie are not eligible.
Problem is, Obama was elected. Chester Arthur (1881-1885), succeeded to the presidency, although not eligible, and did his best to conceal the fact.
Aw c'mon - you're not a birther are you?
The question of the birth certificate is a diversion, when the truth is in plain sight. Obama (by his own admission) is the son of a British citizen, not an American citizen so, irrespective of his place of birth, he cannot be a natural born citizen of the United States.
True. Two recent presidential candidates were not born in the USA.
Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona Territory and John McCain in the Panama Canal Zone.
Neither of them were elected. There are several other recent (minor) candidates who prima facie are not eligible.
Problem is, Obama was elected. Chester Arthur (1881-1885), succeeded to the presidency, although not eligible, and did his best to conceal the fact.
Aw c'mon - you're not a birther are you?
The question of the birth certificate is a diversion, when the truth is in plain sight. Obama (by his own admission) is the son of a British citizen, not an American citizen so, irrespective of his place of birth, he cannot be a natural born citizen of the United States.
True. Two recent presidential candidates were not born in the USA.
Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona Territory and John McCain in the Panama Canal Zone.
Neither of them were elected. There are several other recent (minor) candidates who prima facie are not eligible.
Problem is, Obama was elected. Chester Arthur (1881-1885), succeeded to the presidency, although not eligible, and did his best to conceal the fact.
Aw c'mon - you're not a birther are you?
The question of the birth certificate is a diversion, when the truth is in plain sight. Obama (by his own admission) is the son of a British citizen, not an American citizen so, irrespective of his place of birth, he cannot be a natural born citizen of the United States.
His mother was born in Wichita
The Supreme Court cases I refer to [as well as the evidence of the intent of the Founding Fathers, and their sources "Les naturels, ou indigenes, sont ceux qui sont nes dans le pays, de parens citoyens"] all specify "parents." Judges are not fools, and know the difference between singular and plural.
Also, Congressman John Bingham [architect of the 14th Amendment], explaining (1866) “every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.”
How does having two passports work when travelling between two countries? I assume you leave the US on a US passport and enter the UK on a UK one, but don't airlines require you to use the same one at both ends these days?
I known an ex-American who naturalized Japanese. To do this you have to give up your US citizenship, but renouncing US citizenship is an arduous and complicated process, consisting of multiple interviews where you have to assure them that you really, really mean it. He had some weird state in between during which he had to go to the US on business and come back during the process, resulting in some situation that the Japanese system didn't know how to cope with. The Japanese immigration official advised him to enter the country with his US passport via the foreigner line and pretend to be a tourist, but never go through that line again, because after a few months his US self was going to be considered to have overstayed his visa.
I'm not sure what this does to the net migration statistics - presumably the Japanese computer systems think there are at least two of him living there.
I've never understood why countries don't allow dual citizenship. I was born and raised in England, of English parents. They are my roots. I live in the US, where I make my living, where my daughter was born, and where I will stay. It makes sense to be a citizen of where you live, yet still retain your roots.
Lee Harvey Oswald tried to renounce his US citizenship.
If the logic of it is that you're supposed to bear allegiance to a country then it seems reasonable to say you can only bear allegiance to one. I mean, what if they have a fight?
The idea of allegiance to a territory or government seems sick and twisted to me, but that's probably an argument against the whole concept of citizenship.
Iirc the British monarch has occasionally been legally at war with themselves (as head of state of warring countries).
Comments
How does having two passports work when travelling between two countries? I assume you leave the US on a US passport and enter the UK on a UK one, but don't airlines require you to use the same one at both ends these days?
I'm watching a CFL game, and then will watch a college football game. My mind is exploding adjusting to the differences between CFL, NFL and college.
Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona Territory and John McCain in the Panama Canal Zone.
I'm not sure what this does to the net migration statistics - presumably the Japanese computer systems think there are at least two of him living there.
Lee Harvey Oswald tried to renounce his US citizenship.
Problem is, Obama was elected. Chester Arthur (1881-1885), succeeded to the presidency, although not eligible, and did his best to conceal the fact.
The idea of allegiance to a territory or government seems sick and twisted to me, but that's probably an argument against the whole concept of citizenship.
Also, Congressman John Bingham [architect of the 14th Amendment], explaining (1866) “every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.”