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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Is Philip Hammond on maneuvers, and should you be backing h

SystemSystem Posts: 11,017
edited May 2013 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Is Philip Hammond on maneuvers, and should you be backing him as next out of the cabinet?

In recent months, Philip Hammond has been offering his views on a range of topics, from Philip Hammond: cut welfare not troops  to Gay marriage laws have created ‘real sense of anger says Philip Hammond and finally, on that perennial fault line for the Conservative party, when he said, he would vote to leave the European Union which led to a rebuke from the Prime Minister.

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    FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    Hammond ain't going nowhere....
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    PeterscrivenPeterscriven Posts: 2
    edited May 2013
    He has the lugubrious, down-beat manner that characterised Brown in the 1995-2001 period (ie when we trusted him).

    Took on the MoD and 'won' in the sense of cutting our Armed Forces to match their budget, but did not effect the wholesale clear-out of the Ministry 'staffers' who eat up so much of the MoD's budget - and to so little effect (cf Gove at DfES).

    I can see him as a future CotE - someone, sometime has to start the £150-£200 billion pa of cuts that are required - and it might as well be him. Ending all Welfare payments, Education and NHS would allow us to repay our £1.5 trillion of debt and create a sensible surplus in 3-5 years.**

    Whilst I am not, remotely, suggesting that is either sensible or possible, it shows where real (BBC-speak 'savage') cuts HAVE to be made - and all are protected under the Coalition's mind-set or Agreement.

    A freezing of ALL benefits for 5 years AND an end to 'Universal Benefits' (Child Benefit (2 children max); Pensions to higher-rate tax-payers (pension age to rise sharply - and soon);NHS care (outside A&E and end-of-life care) for those with private health insurance and/or are higher-rate tax-payers) would be a decent start on what's required.

    Hammond has the face to go with such a fiscally-sensible Govt's economic policy.

    OGH rates him highly as next Conservative (OGH = 'Tory') Party leader - and hence LotO. I cannot (even remotely) see that myself, and, like Fluffy Thoughts (below), I cannot see Hammond going anywhere before GE 2015 - and to Shadow Chancellor thereafter.

    ** Edit: With the national debt costing £48 billion pa in interest payments alone, at a time when interest rates are at an all-time low (<2%), then anyone with half a brain can see that, when the debt is 50-75% larger (as currently planned) and interest rates have doubled back to their historical average of >5%, we'll be paying something well in excess of £150 billion pa in interest payments alone - which is more than the NHS and not that far short of the current Welfare Budget (which is, itself, continuing to grow).
    That's simply not possible - and, BenM/tim/Roger et all, not possible no matter what levels of future 'growth' you can dream up as remotely feasible, even in la-la land.

    So that leaves massive currency appreciation (hahaha - not going to happen!) or rampant inflation as the only possible ways to impoverish those who took up that debt (ie pension funds etc): we're all going to get much, much, MUCH poorer and unless and until a Westminster-based political party comes out and says that, then the credibility of ALL politicians will be degraded even lower: Gay Marriage debates at a time when (eg) Child Benefit limits (and its eventual abolition); sharp rises in Pension Age and tax benefits for those who stay at home and care for the young, sick, frail or elderly should be their total focus of current political debate? Pathetic, Cameron/Clegg/Millipede - utterly pathetic: the equivalent of organising a Roman circus when the Huns are at the gates.


    A programme on R4 last evening ((8pm?) on 'Blue Labour' shows that some, at least, with even the Socialist Party are prepared to debate and accept that centralised, Whitehall-set targets are not the way forward and that local, diverse, flexible, variable, inducement-led benefits (severely reduced in size, scope and cash) are the way forward.

    Toynbee and the Fabians bitterly opposed this suggestion - but, of course, made no suggestions as to how their proposed largess should be paid for. Interestingly, a London Borough (Haringey?) with a Glaswegian-accented Labour Leader/Mayor was already implementing such a scheme, to the popular approval of those interviewed.

    It must be on BBC iPlayer - well worth a listen, IMO.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    1) David Cameron doesn't sack people.
    2) David Cameron isn't in a position where he could sack someone just for being notably rightwing
    3) Philip Hammond has said nothing inconsistent with membership of the Cabinet

    33/1 on him leaving the Cabinet next is, however, a perfect sensible bet on the basis that it could just as easily be him as anyone else and there are only 23 members of the Cabinet.

    antifrank's razor therefore makes this a good bet.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    I don't suppose you can go too far wrong at 33/1, but I don't understand the story about him quitting the cabinet. He's doing fine where he is, and if he wants to move on Cameron early he just has to get a few friends to send no confidence letters then put the word around that he'd be available if Cameron lost the resulting vote. The party will want a safe pair of hands not a loose cannon, and it's not like the right has got anyone better.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    ...he'd be available if Cameron lost the resulting vote.

    Indeed, although even this might be too strong for the Party. The regicide rarely wears the crown (See Heseltine et al for details)

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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    FPT I'm disappointed to see that no one disclosed any revelations about a bizarre love triangle.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Off topic, I was in Stockholm for the weekend. Some unconnected observations:

    1) Stockholm now has a surprisingly high number of beggars.

    2) I was told that the unemployment rate there is now 8% and that this is likely to doom the incumbent government to defeat in the upcoming general election.

    3) For a country where 1 in 7 are immigrants, you don't see very many of them.

    4) There's a lot of soul-searching about the rioting, with many echoes of the discussions in Britain in 2011. The left are blaming inequality and social exclusion while the right are blaming breakdown of family values. There are rumours of many of the rioters having travelled some distance to participate in the riots. As always, the speculation far outruns the facts.

    5) The Swedes seem to be determined to cover themselves with really bad tattoos. Yes, that's even by comparison with Britain.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    GeoffM said:

    ...he'd be available if Cameron lost the resulting vote.

    Indeed, although even this might be too strong for the Party. The regicide rarely wears the crown (See Heseltine et al for details)
    Well right, that's why I don't see him quitting the cabinet.

    It's not worth rocking the boat like that if you're already a frontrunner. It's only worth doing if everybody is ignoring you, and you need to do something to get attention.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,937
    antifrank said:

    FPT I'm disappointed to see that no one disclosed any revelations about a bizarre love triangle.

    AF, you promised me that would remain our secret forever!
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,331
    TSE's habit of embedding links throughout his leading article is great - enables us to dig down quickly if a subject interests us.

    The Tory Party at the moment reminds me of Labour in early 2009 - we kept thinking that maybe we should change the leader but let's wait and see what happens at point X. The current tendency seems to be that they'll give Cameron until the Euro-elections in 2014. Dave will be comfortable with that - yes, the results will probably be terrible, but then the "we can't change within months of a General Election" line kicks in, and would-be successors prefer to wait to pick up the pieces rather than have 6 months in office and then go down with the ship.

    Incidentally, I'm not convinced we'd have done better under someone else in 2010 - we were just tired out and everyone knew it. Brown was tough and resilient and there's a lot to be said for that when you're in a Grim Last Stand situation. The Tories would clearly do better in the short term with Boris, not so much with the others.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited May 2013
    Hammond on "maneuvers" !!!

    Has he suddenly become US Defense Secretary ?? .... or is he still on manoeuvres as Secretary of State for Defence here in Blighty ?!?
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    @Antifrank

    I noticed the tattoo thing in Vancouver. Seems the whole population of Vancouver is covered in crappy tattoos. Is this a lefty progressive alternative lifestyle thing? Where's the hippy capital of the world? Queenstown, NZ? San Francisco? Brighton? Maybe the tattoo counts there are off the chart.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925
    antifrank said:

    Off topic, I was in Stockholm for the weekend. Some unconnected observations:

    1) Stockholm now has a surprisingly high number of beggars.

    2) I was told that the unemployment rate there is now 8% and that this is likely to doom the incumbent government to defeat in the upcoming general election.

    3) For a country where 1 in 7 are immigrants, you don't see very many of them.

    4) There's a lot of soul-searching about the rioting, with many echoes of the discussions in Britain in 2011. The left are blaming inequality and social exclusion while the right are blaming breakdown of family values. There are rumours of many of the rioters having travelled some distance to participate in the riots. As always, the speculation far outruns the facts.

    5) The Swedes seem to be determined to cover themselves with really bad tattoos. Yes, that's even by comparison with Britain.

    Is there such a thing as a good tattoo?

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,235
    We are heading into that part of the Parliament where cuts that were pencilled in in those early budgets have to be delivered. I appreciate that the economy was terribly weak in 2010 but I said at the time that failure to cut then would result in very difficult decisions in the run up to the election when we are used to politicians bribing us with our own money.

    Osborne needs £11.5bn of cuts for the spending review next month and reportedly is struggling to find it. Hammond has been explicit that defence has already borne its share and it is not surprising that he is rattling a few cages to protect his position.

    None of this means that Hammond is going anywhere but the stresses of having a few smaller departments bearing all of the strain in cuts will continue to rumble on over the summer. Expect at least one serious public disagreement with the Lib Dems on spending priorities too.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @SouthamObserver There are degrees of badness. Swedes seem to be determined to adorn themselves with the tattoo equivalents of the eighth circle of hell.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925
    antifrank said:

    @SouthamObserver There are degrees of badness. Swedes seem to be determined to adorn themselves with the tattoo equivalents of the eighth circle of hell.

    I don't get tattoos one little bit. They all look dreadful to me. But the worst ones are on the face, the best are in places that are generally hidden from view. Though I guess that this can lead to nasty - and deflating - surprises at times.

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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited May 2013
    @ SO

    There is no such thing as a good tattoo.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925
    On topic - if you were Hammond and looking at the calibre of the current inhabitant of No. 11 Downing Street, wouldn't you be on manoeuvres too?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    On topic - if you were Hammond and looking at the calibre of the current inhabitant of No. 11 Downing Street, wouldn't you be on manoeuvres too?

    Right now I suspect that George Osborne has hopes that by 2015 he will be able to launch his own sub-election campaign under the theme "the man who was proved right". If he does, he might want to be bear in mind that "I told you so" is an unattractive message for any politician, never mind a politician with an image problem.

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    antifrank said:
    Not much to disagree with there!
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925
    antifrank said:

    On topic - if you were Hammond and looking at the calibre of the current inhabitant of No. 11 Downing Street, wouldn't you be on manoeuvres too?

    Right now I suspect that George Osborne has hopes that by 2015 he will be able to launch his own sub-election campaign under the theme "the man who was proved right". If he does, he might want to be bear in mind that "I told you so" is an unattractive message for any politician, never mind a politician with an image problem.

    An "I told you so" theme will need more than a paper, ie statistical, recovery. For it to be effective people will have to *feel* one is taking place. It will be touch and go on that front. There are certainly signs that things are improving, but as yet little indication that this will have an effect on living standards, stress levels and all the other things that keep people awake at night.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,235
    Off the important topic of tattoos this is a really interesting map of EU unemployment from der speigel: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/bild-901946-500498.html

    It is interesting that even in Germany the shape of the old DDR is still so distinct. The UK is also the only place other than Germany with much in the way of green. Der Speigel is reporting that the German government is having a change of heart and a willingness to spend more, particularly in southern europe where the picture is bleak indeed: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/german-government-to-test-stimulus-instead-of-austerity-a-901946.html

    It seems even Angela Merkel gets it about politicians, elections and spending.
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    @SO

    ..and the government should focus relentlessly on living standards in the next 18 months. Energy prices, council tax, food costs, alcohol costs, rail fares, rent, etc, etc - all need concerted and structural government action to force the costs down.

    Scrapping windmill subsidies might be good opener for 10.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited May 2013
    @DavidL


    "Off the important topic of tattoos this is a really interesting map of EU unemployment"

    Thank you. That's a really interesting map. Poor Spain Portugal and Ireland.

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925
    DavidL said:

    Off the important topic of tattoos this is a really interesting map of EU unemployment from der speigel: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/bild-901946-500498.html

    It is interesting that even in Germany the shape of the old DDR is still so distinct. The UK is also the only place other than Germany with much in the way of green. Der Speigel is reporting that the German government is having a change of heart and a willingness to spend more, particularly in southern europe where the picture is bleak indeed: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/german-government-to-test-stimulus-instead-of-austerity-a-901946.html

    It seems even Angela Merkel gets it about politicians, elections and spending.

    Switzerland, Austria and the Netherlands look pretty green, much more so than the UK. The biggest surprises are Denmark and Sweden.

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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    DavidL said:

    Off the important topic of tattoos this is a really interesting map of EU unemployment from der speigel: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/bild-901946-500498.html

    It is interesting that even in Germany the shape of the old DDR is still so distinct. The UK is also the only place other than Germany with much in the way of green.

    The Flanders/Walloon split is evident in Belgium.

    If I was a Romanian/Bulgarian I would be learning German on the basis of that map. Austria is doing well.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,235

    DavidL said:

    Off the important topic of tattoos this is a really interesting map of EU unemployment from der speigel: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/bild-901946-500498.html

    It is interesting that even in Germany the shape of the old DDR is still so distinct. The UK is also the only place other than Germany with much in the way of green. Der Speigel is reporting that the German government is having a change of heart and a willingness to spend more, particularly in southern europe where the picture is bleak indeed: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/german-government-to-test-stimulus-instead-of-austerity-a-901946.html

    It seems even Angela Merkel gets it about politicians, elections and spending.

    Switzerland, Austria and the Netherlands look pretty green, much more so than the UK. The biggest surprises are Denmark and Sweden.

    Yes, they are clearly a part of the Germanic bloc. I didn't express myself properly. What I meant was that there were almost no areas of green in the EU that were not directly connected to Germany other than in the UK (other than what I am pretty sure is Romania bizarrely (have they all left already?))

    I agree with you about the nordic countries but southern europe is truly desperate.
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    Osborne is doing the rounds of the media studios this morning (he Tweets)

    Today's media contain many references to the scale and extent of cuts to State spending that are going to be imposed from 2016/7 onwards.
    real cuts this time - not just pretendy ones (ie genuine cash cuts, not 'reductions in the rate of increase in spending' cuts). The scale mentioned is considerable - up to £50 billion pa, to reduce total spending by £150 billion pa by 2020 or so.

    Which interviewer will ask Osborne about that? Where and when will the axe fall on the Big Spenders - of Health, Education, Welfare, which is where Universal Benefits are going to have to be a) sharply reduced in scope, scale and cost and b) ended as a concept.

    'Blue Labour' were on R4 last night accepting this - so why not what is (nominally) a Conservative-led Govt, with a Conservative CotE?
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited May 2013
    @SO

    "Switzerland, Austria and the Netherlands look pretty green,"

    All of the seriously depressed areas are on the outer fringes. The literal heart of Europe looks in rude good health. Perhaps a good 48 sheet opener for the Europhiles if the referendum happens
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Patrick said:

    @Antifrank

    I noticed the tattoo thing in Vancouver. Seems the whole population of Vancouver is covered in crappy tattoos. Is this a lefty progressive alternative lifestyle thing? Where's the hippy capital of the world? Queenstown, NZ? San Francisco? Brighton? Maybe the tattoo counts there are off the chart.

    Most kids in SoCal get tatted as well - and that's not a noticeably leftie environment
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    France is trending orange on that map. And when it gets deeper orange then it's game over for the Euro.
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    Charles - California not a lefty environment! In some parallel universe maybe.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974

    antifrank said:
    Not much to disagree with there!
    Go argue with the truth! Fit's the people I meet who have visible tattoos, other than the occasional Maori!

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Patrick said:

    Charles - California not a lefty environment! In some parallel universe maybe.

    That's what I said! (perhaps the irony was too light touch).

    NorCal can be pretty leftie though.
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    Charles - whoops. Rereading your post I see it now. Must adjust my irony detectors!
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    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    antifrank said:

    On topic - if you were Hammond and looking at the calibre of the current inhabitant of No. 11 Downing Street, wouldn't you be on manoeuvres too?

    Right now I suspect that George Osborne has hopes that by 2015 he will be able to launch his own sub-election campaign under the theme "the man who was proved right".

    He's got no chance.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited May 2013
    I notice that the Cote d'Azur is coloured orange. Must be too busy sailing their yachts. A restaurateur friend of mine said he was struggling to get staff so I suggested he try employing East Europeans. He's just employed his first Polish waiter and he can't believe his work rate.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Patrick said:

    France is trending orange on that map. And when it gets deeper orange then it's game over for the Euro.

    The map is a snapshot in time. It says nothing about the trend.

    Not that the trend in France is good, but it is worse in Italy and even the Netherlands [though from a lower base] as these charts show:
    http://www.bls.gov/fls/intl_unemployment_rates_monthly.htm#Rchart1

    Netherlands should be particularly worrying for German policymakers. It suggests that they may not be able to isolate the Germanic core from the problems of the periphery indefinitely.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    @af

    "Right now I suspect that George Osborne has hopes that by 2015 he will be able to launch his own sub-election campaign under the theme "the man who was proved right""

    It's the way you tell 'em!
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Off the important topic of tattoos this is a really interesting map of EU unemployment from der speigel: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/bild-901946-500498.html

    It is interesting that even in Germany the shape of the old DDR is still so distinct. The UK is also the only place other than Germany with much in the way of green. Der Speigel is reporting that the German government is having a change of heart and a willingness to spend more, particularly in southern europe where the picture is bleak indeed: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/german-government-to-test-stimulus-instead-of-austerity-a-901946.html

    It seems even Angela Merkel gets it about politicians, elections and spending.

    Switzerland, Austria and the Netherlands look pretty green, much more so than the UK. The biggest surprises are Denmark and Sweden.

    Yes, they are clearly a part of the Germanic bloc. I didn't express myself properly. What I meant was that there were almost no areas of green in the EU that were not directly connected to Germany other than in the UK (other than what I am pretty sure is Romania bizarrely (have they all left already?))

    I agree with you about the nordic countries but southern europe is truly desperate.

    Maybe they are the German bits of Romania. It would be interesting to see the Norwegian and Finnish colours. Swedes have been heading to Norway for work for quite a while now.

    As for southern Europe, the current situation is not sustainable for much longer. After the German election, something will give. I suspect it will be Germany.

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,283
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    On topic I think Hammond wants to be Chancellor
    Unfortunately for the country and particularly the Tory party,changing the Chancellor involves removing Cameron, as we know he prefers to blow elections than replace Osborne.

    The only (and compelling) reason to sack GO is the perception that he is unsackable. We saw how corrosive a PM/CoE saga was in 1997-2010; no one has the appetite for Round 2. Even if it’s now a love-in rather than a hate-in.

    GO isn’t doing that bad a job – played it quite straight so far, not knocked it out of the park (unless you compare the UK to mainland Europe and why on earth would anyone want to do that?), not driven it into the ground, things ticking up, a couple of ticking time bombs (yes help to buy, but it’s not the end of the world, really) – so...why would DC ditch him? He hasn’t been an unmitigated disaster although certainly not perfect.

    As for Hammond to CoE not a chance – the only way a replacement would work is if there’s someone new, dynamic, hugely capable and seen to be (and no Justine, that’s not you). A safe pair of hands isn’t required right now – either he’s going to change course (he isn’t) or it’s carry on as is.

    So I’m with the “he ain’t going nowhere”s.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Off the important topic of tattoos this is a really interesting map of EU unemployment from der speigel: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/bild-901946-500498.html

    It is interesting that even in Germany the shape of the old DDR is still so distinct. The UK is also the only place other than Germany with much in the way of green. Der Speigel is reporting that the German government is having a change of heart and a willingness to spend more, particularly in southern europe where the picture is bleak indeed: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/german-government-to-test-stimulus-instead-of-austerity-a-901946.html

    It seems even Angela Merkel gets it about politicians, elections and spending.

    Switzerland, Austria and the Netherlands look pretty green, much more so than the UK. The biggest surprises are Denmark and Sweden.

    Yes, they are clearly a part of the Germanic bloc. I didn't express myself properly. What I meant was that there were almost no areas of green in the EU that were not directly connected to Germany other than in the UK (other than what I am pretty sure is Romania bizarrely (have they all left already?))

    I agree with you about the nordic countries but southern europe is truly desperate.

    Maybe they are the German bits of Romania. It would be interesting to see the Norwegian and Finnish colours. Swedes have been heading to Norway for work for quite a while now.

    As for southern Europe, the current situation is not sustainable for much longer. After the German election, something will give. I suspect it will be Germany.
    Finland is on the map. It's yellow.

    Cornwall and the Scottish Highlands are also both green, but no-one would suggest they are economic powerhouses. Tentatively I'd suggest that the green areas of Romania were similarly rural and remote from the Romanian capital, and that most of the unemployed Romanians from those regions have already migrated internally within Romania in search of work.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Off the important topic of tattoos this is a really interesting map of EU unemployment from der speigel: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/bild-901946-500498.html

    It is interesting that even in Germany the shape of the old DDR is still so distinct. The UK is also the only place other than Germany with much in the way of green. Der Speigel is reporting that the German government is having a change of heart and a willingness to spend more, particularly in southern europe where the picture is bleak indeed: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/german-government-to-test-stimulus-instead-of-austerity-a-901946.html

    It seems even Angela Merkel gets it about politicians, elections and spending.

    Switzerland, Austria and the Netherlands look pretty green, much more so than the UK. The biggest surprises are Denmark and Sweden.

    Yes, they are clearly a part of the Germanic bloc. I didn't express myself properly. What I meant was that there were almost no areas of green in the EU that were not directly connected to Germany other than in the UK (other than what I am pretty sure is Romania bizarrely (have they all left already?))

    I agree with you about the nordic countries but southern europe is truly desperate.

    Maybe they are the German bits of Romania. It would be interesting to see the Norwegian and Finnish colours. Swedes have been heading to Norway for work for quite a while now.

    As for southern Europe, the current situation is not sustainable for much longer. After the German election, something will give. I suspect it will be Germany.
    Finland is on the map. It's yellow.

    Cornwall and the Scottish Highlands are also both green, but no-one would suggest they are economic powerhouses. Tentatively I'd suggest that the green areas of Romania were similarly rural and remote from the Romanian capital, and that most of the unemployed Romanians from those regions have already migrated internally within Romania in search of work.

    Apologies to Finland.

    I assumed the Scottish green was down to Aberdeen and oil, while Cornwall's was down to tourism. My Romania comment was not meant seriously.

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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    "The Centre for Retail Research (CRR) is warning that High Streets could see 20% of their shops close down within five years as more people turn to the internet for their shopping.

    The organisation, which conducts research into retail, technology and crime, says this would equate to 62,000 shops closing down.

    The CRR believes large areas of the UK's High Streets would become housing.

    It also says as many as 316,000 workers would lose their jobs.

    The CRR says online shopping will continue to expand and the proportion of shopping done via the internet will double to 22%.

    The report, which was produced by Prof Joshua Bamfield, said the first shops to go would be pharmacies and health and beauty stores.

    Retailers specialising in music, books, cards, stationery and gifts will be next.

    DIY shops will also suffer.

    In its report, the CRR compares the costs of opening a High Street store and an online warehouse.

    It says opening a small store on a High Street in the Midlands would cost about £10,000 a month, whereas opening an equivalent space in a warehouse on the outskirts of a similar town would cost between £650 and £1,800 a month.

    The director general of the British Retail Consortium, Helen Dickinson, said the country would have to get used to a very different look and feel on the High Streets of the future.

    The CRR estimates that there are about 280,000 shops across the country. Closures on the scale predicted by the organisation would leave 220,000 by 2018.

    It points out that 16 major retailers have gone into administration this year, with the loss of almost 15,000 jobs."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22686180

    This means that to have any effect both rents and business rates must drop sharply.

    Presumably food and a certain amount of clothing will stay (people will want to "feel" the cloth and try things on - or not?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    antifrank said:

    Off topic, I was in Stockholm for the weekend. Some unconnected observations:

    1) Stockholm now has a surprisingly high number of beggars.

    2) I was told that the unemployment rate there is now 8% and that this is likely to doom the incumbent government to defeat in the upcoming general election.

    3) For a country where 1 in 7 are immigrants, you don't see very many of them.

    4) There's a lot of soul-searching about the rioting, with many echoes of the discussions in Britain in 2011. The left are blaming inequality and social exclusion while the right are blaming breakdown of family values. There are rumours of many of the rioters having travelled some distance to participate in the riots. As always, the speculation far outruns the facts.

    5) The Swedes seem to be determined to cover themselves with really bad tattoos. Yes, that's even by comparison with Britain.

    Is there such a thing as a good tattoo?

    @ SO

    There is no such thing as a good tattoo.

    Edinburgh might say otherwise.

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,378
    @JackW - I'm blaming auto-correct for the Americanisation of my spelling, honest.

    @NickPalmer - Glad you like the links, also helps me, when I make an assertion in a header, that's evidence for my assertion.

    @Antifrank - I desperately wanted to put in a reference to Bizarre Love Triangle and World In Motion, but it just wasn't meant to be.
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351

    Years ago, we told our eldest son that we wouldn't worry who he married as long as she didn't appear on "The Jeremy Kyle Show" and wasn't covered in tattoos.

    Incidentally, the current 'scroungers' meme is being stimulated by shows like JK and others.

    PS I know it should be "whom he married" but I'm turning into a barbarian.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    antifrank said:

    FPT I'm disappointed to see that no one disclosed any revelations about a bizarre love triangle.

    AF, you promised me that would remain our secret forever!
    OMG! Disclosures, this early in the day. Tsk tsk.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925
    If the weathet in Leeds is anything like it is in Leamington there'll be no play in the test today.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    antifrank said:

    @SouthamObserver There are degrees of badness. Swedes seem to be determined to adorn themselves with the tattoo equivalents of the eighth circle of hell.

    I don't get tattoos one little bit. They all look dreadful to me. But the worst ones are on the face, the best are in places that are generally hidden from view. Though I guess that this can lead to nasty - and deflating - surprises at times.

    Oh, I so agree with you, Southam. To me, this craze for tattooing is uncivilized and demeaning to the wearer.

  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Gay marriage will go through with Labour help and the Hammond will be in a very strange place to launch attacks. (I should add, in my opinion, DC needs same-sex marriage to be a fait accompli before 2015.)
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,378
    This is the pb equivalent of farting in a lift and then walking out

    Alan Sked: We need a Eurosceptic party of the centre left

    I left Ukip, the party I founded, when it became a magnet for bigots. But what happened to leftwing opposition to the EU?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/28/we-need-eurosceptic-party-centre-left
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited May 2013
    @TheScreamingEagle

    "I'm blaming auto-correct for the Americanisation of my spelling, honest."

    I'm blaming TSE for failing to override the auto-correct or perhaps Ukip if all else fails, honest.
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    davidthecondavidthecon Posts: 165
    edited May 2013
    antifrank said:

    Off topic, I was in Stockholm for the weekend. Some unconnected observations:

    1) Stockholm now has a surprisingly high number of beggars.

    2) I was told that the unemployment rate there is now 8% and that this is likely to doom the incumbent government to defeat in the upcoming general election.

    3) For a country where 1 in 7 are immigrants, you don't see very many of them.

    4) There's a lot of soul-searching about the rioting, with many echoes of the discussions in Britain in 2011. The left are blaming inequality and social exclusion while the right are blaming breakdown of family values. There are rumours of many of the rioters having travelled some distance to participate in the riots. As always, the speculation far outruns the facts.

    5) The Swedes seem to be determined to cover themselves with really bad tattoos. Yes, that's even by comparison with Britain.

    Mr Antifrank

    You may have noticed that the beggars in Stockholm are 90% Roma, not ethnic Swedes. Rates of petty theft are also going through the roof here.

    As for the 'riots', the numbers of troublemakers involved have been blown out of all proportion. They've been limited to areas with high rates of 'new' immigration from countries such as Iraq and Somalia. The more established immigrant communities here like the Turks/Kurds/Iranians are fuming with anger at being lumped together with the new arrivals where the blame is concerned.

    As for the b/s reporting in foreign, (as well as some domestic), media that's blaming it all on deprivation/poverty, nothing could be further from the truth. It's purely a lack of integration into Swedish society by these kids parents. Plus the bonus lack of parental discipline. There is zero genuine poverty in Sweden, inequality yes. But compared to Bill Gates we are all poor according to some idiots.

    The suburbs of Stockholm where the trouble has occured are just becoming ghettos, not poor deprived ghettos, but mini states all to themselves.

    Sweden has decided to accept high rates of immigration, shame they don't have a clue how to deal with the consequences. Multicultural crap strikes again.

    The far right,(not BNP style I may add),Swedish Democracy party is likely to come third in next years election. My guess is that the two largest parties, the Social Democrats and the Moderates may be forced into some kind of grand coalition.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,378
    Final post of the morning.

    There was a VI poll with that ComRes poll

    The poll for the Open Europe think tank also found that 39 per cent of those who had voted Tory in 2010 would back UKIP if the European election were held now.

    In a general election, the poll suggested Labour would take 37 per cent of the votes.
    This would give Labour an 11-point lead over the Conservatives on 26 per cent, with UKIP on 20 per cent.

    The Liberal Democrats would be trailing behind on 9 per cent.



    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331759/UKIP-set-European-poll-success-powers-ahead-Tories-Labour.html#ixzz2UXQwmApt
  • Options
    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    This is the pb equivalent of farting in a lift and then walking out

    Alan Sked: We need a Eurosceptic party of the centre left

    I left Ukip, the party I founded, when it became a magnet for bigots. But what happened to leftwing opposition to the EU?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/28/we-need-eurosceptic-party-centre-left

    He could get Owen Jones to found it.

  • Options
    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    Try the Eurostat website, it has a lot of similar data in both map and database form:

    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    I'm a rebel - I don't have a tattoo. I associate them with Triads, very elderly merchant seamen and people who think they're rebellious and have actually just joined an indelible fashion mistake trend that you can't donate to jumble sales...
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Financier said:

    "The Centre for Retail Research (CRR) is warning that High Streets could see 20% of their shops close down within five years as more people turn to the internet for their shopping.

    ...

    The CRR says online shopping will continue to expand and the proportion of shopping done via the internet will double to 22%.

    The report, which was produced by Prof Joshua Bamfield, said the first shops to go would be pharmacies and health and beauty stores.

    Retailers specialising in music, books, cards, stationery and gifts will be next.

    DIY shops will also suffer.

    ...

    This means that to have any effect both rents and business rates must drop sharply.

    Presumably food and a certain amount of clothing will stay (people will want to "feel" the cloth and try things on - or not?

    People have been predicted online pharmacy for ages, but regulation gets in the way. Y'know the bit about the medical practioners wanting to see the patients before they give them the drug?

    Stefano P is one of the most impressive businessmen I know (although admittedly he has just sold Boots...)

    Music, books are already pretty much done, and stationary and gifts are going that way.

    The interesting area for the retail is low value / bulk goods. Those (dog food is a good example) where to cost of shipping are a significant proportion of the costs of the product. Hence a remote model doesn't really make sense.
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    If the weathet in Leeds is anything like it is in Leamington there'll be no play in the test today.

    The forecast yesterday morning was for a day of rain today. England probably should have declared when Cook lost his wicket in the morning, if not earlier.

    It's not the first time that England have allowed a game to go to a draw because they have ignored the weather forecast.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    If the weathet in Leeds is anything like it is in Leamington there'll be no play in the test today.

    The forecast yesterday morning was for a day of rain today. England probably should have declared when Cook lost his wicket in the morning, if not earlier.

    It's not the first time that England have allowed a game to go to a draw because they have ignored the weather forecast.
    Just about put my tumbler of 12 yo malt through the screen when they didn't enforce the follow on.

    This is one of the biggest captaincy cock up in years - Cook has screwed up here.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    Fraser Nelson ‏@frasernelson 9m
    UK economy flat, yet prime London prices now 20% higher than 2008 peak: http://goo.gl/gtMJ3 . Osborne’s new bubble: http://specc.ie/187c0Fs


    Rents in Greater London up 8% per annum, no wonder the benefit bill has to rise as Osborne inflates the housing bubble.

    Yawn. Nothing to do with Osborne. It's devaluation, instability abroad, and the plethora of foreign buyers (one estate agent recently said 70%, IIRC, of his buyers are international in P/SP London)
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT I keep noticing open topped red London buses as *scene* props in US tv dramas, they are usually tour city tour buses - is this a very recent thing? I travelled across America and never saw one - was I unlucky or are they rare beasts?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202
    Charles: we get our dog food on the internet. Arrives in bulk and cheaper. Most of the high street shops I use are ones providing services: upholstery, picture framing etc. Though I do make an exception for good quality clothing shops but there are only a few of those about and they only survive because they provide something extra. Interestingly, though, I tend to use shops outside London. The rents and rates in London must be a killer.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Fraser Nelson ‏@frasernelson 9m
    UK economy flat, yet prime London prices now 20% higher than 2008 peak: http://goo.gl/gtMJ3 . Osborne’s new bubble: http://specc.ie/187c0Fs


    Rents in Greater London up 8% per annum, no wonder the benefit bill has to rise as Osborne inflates the housing bubble.

    Yawn. Nothing to do with Osborne. It's devaluation, instability abroad, and the plethora of foreign buyers (one estate agent recently said 70%, IIRC, of his buyers are international in P/SP London)
    Always better to read before commenting Charles.

    Average rents across the UK rose by 0.2% in April and are up 3.9% year-on-year as demand continues to outstrip supply in many areas. Greater London leads the way, with rental growth of nearly 8%,

    And further undermining your point about it all being top-end London driven

    However, in prime central London this picture is reversed, as rents for luxury London homes are on a downward trajectory. Average rents edged down by 0.1% in April and are down 3.2% year on year, reflecting how this market is more closely aligned to the City jobs market – a sector which has been turbulent since the financial crisis.


    Yawn. Nothing to do with Osborne.

    Nothing ever is, is it?

    Fraser's comment was about prices, not about rents. Do pay attention at the back.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    If the weathet in Leeds is anything like it is in Leamington there'll be no play in the test today.

    The forecast yesterday morning was for a day of rain today. England probably should have declared when Cook lost his wicket in the morning, if not earlier.

    It's not the first time that England have allowed a game to go to a draw because they have ignored the weather forecast.
    Just about put my tumbler of 12 yo malt through the screen when they didn't enforce the follow on.

    This is one of the biggest captaincy cock up in years - Cook has screwed up here.

    Did he not bother to look at the weather forecast?
    Perhaps the ECB/YCCC were worried it wouldn't last the day.
  • Options
    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Morning. Help please - on the 'biggest issues to voters' polls is there a tracker anywhere online? I can't find it if so.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles: we get our dog food on the internet. Arrives in bulk and cheaper. Most of the high street shops I use are ones providing services: upholstery, picture framing etc. Though I do make an exception for good quality clothing shops but there are only a few of those about and they only survive because they provide something extra. Interestingly, though, I tend to use shops outside London. The rents and rates in London must be a killer.

    I was looking at it from the point of the suppliers.

    The biggest player in Europe is zooplus.com: 30% gross margin, loss making at the EBITDA level. CVS makes around a 20% gm but doesn't break out profitability; Petsathome is similar to CVS. Both of the latter two have developed internet as a defensive strategy.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,378
    Carola said:

    Morning. Help please - on the 'biggest issues to voters' polls is there a tracker anywhere online? I can't find it if so.

    Yes, you can find it here

    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/poll.aspx?oItemId=2439&view=wide
  • Options
    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Carola said:

    Morning. Help please - on the 'biggest issues to voters' polls is there a tracker anywhere online? I can't find it if so.

    Yes, you can find it here

    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/poll.aspx?oItemId=2439&view=wide
    Brilliant, thanks.

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Fraser Nelson ‏@frasernelson 9m
    UK economy flat, yet prime London prices now 20% higher than 2008 peak: http://goo.gl/gtMJ3 . Osborne’s new bubble: http://specc.ie/187c0Fs


    Rents in Greater London up 8% per annum, no wonder the benefit bill has to rise as Osborne inflates the housing bubble.

    Yawn. Nothing to do with Osborne. It's devaluation, instability abroad, and the plethora of foreign buyers (one estate agent recently said 70%, IIRC, of his buyers are international in P/SP London)
    Always better to read before commenting Charles.

    Average rents across the UK rose by 0.2% in April and are up 3.9% year-on-year as demand continues to outstrip supply in many areas. Greater London leads the way, with rental growth of nearly 8%,

    And further undermining your point about it all being top-end London driven

    However, in prime central London this picture is reversed, as rents for luxury London homes are on a downward trajectory. Average rents edged down by 0.1% in April and are down 3.2% year on year, reflecting how this market is more closely aligned to the City jobs market – a sector which has been turbulent since the financial crisis.


    Yawn. Nothing to do with Osborne.

    Nothing ever is, is it?

    Fraser's comment was about prices, not about rents. Do pay attention at the back.

    You'll probably find that outside Charles' world the two are linked.

    Wages rising by 0.4%pa and rents by 3.9% outside London and 8% in Greater London = lots more housing benefit spending.
    Stoked deliberately by Osborne.


    Buy-to-let landlords could be the biggest beneficiaries of the Bank of England’s expanded Funding for Lending Scheme, providing another state-backed fillip to the property market.
    The BoE gave the go-ahead on Wednesday for banks tapping its new funding mechanism for small and medium-sized businesses to be allowed to lend the money on to property investors.


    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a89f02b6-ad04-11e2-9454-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2UVpSLL5U

    "Nothing to to with Osborne, all foreign buyers faults"





    Another good reason to adopt IDS's no HB to under 25s idea - savings would be substantial.
  • Options
    Things are getting tough for the Lib Dems. Need £8 to keep their comms alive.

    "Site Suspended Due to lack of funds LibDemBlogs is currently suspended.
    A total of £8 is due before the end of the day, after which our hosts will close down the site completely."

    http://www.libdemblogs.co.uk/
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Fraser Nelson ‏@frasernelson 9m
    UK economy flat, yet prime London prices now 20% higher than 2008 peak: http://goo.gl/gtMJ3 . Osborne’s new bubble: http://specc.ie/187c0Fs


    Rents in Greater London up 8% per annum, no wonder the benefit bill has to rise as Osborne inflates the housing bubble.

    Yawn. Nothing to do with Osborne. It's devaluation, instability abroad, and the plethora of foreign buyers (one estate agent recently said 70%, IIRC, of his buyers are international in P/SP London)
    Always better to read before commenting Charles.

    Average rents across the UK rose by 0.2% in April and are up 3.9% year-on-year as demand continues to outstrip supply in many areas. Greater London leads the way, with rental growth of nearly 8%,

    And further undermining your point about it all being top-end London driven

    However, in prime central London this picture is reversed, as rents for luxury London homes are on a downward trajectory. Average rents edged down by 0.1% in April and are down 3.2% year on year, reflecting how this market is more closely aligned to the City jobs market – a sector which has been turbulent since the financial crisis.


    Yawn. Nothing to do with Osborne.

    Nothing ever is, is it?

    Fraser's comment was about prices, not about rents. Do pay attention at the back.

    You'll probably find that outside Charles' world the two are linked.

    Wages rising by 0.4%pa and rents by 3.9% outside London and 8% in Greater London = lots more housing benefit spending.
    Stoked deliberately by Osborne.


    Buy-to-let landlords could be the biggest beneficiaries of the Bank of England’s expanded Funding for Lending Scheme, providing another state-backed fillip to the property market.
    The BoE gave the go-ahead on Wednesday for banks tapping its new funding mechanism for small and medium-sized businesses to be allowed to lend the money on to property investors.


    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a89f02b6-ad04-11e2-9454-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2UVpSLL5U

    "Nothing to to with Osborne, all foreign buyers faults"





    Another good reason to adopt IDS's no HB to under 25s idea - savings would be substantial.

    I doubt it, but you keep fantasising.
    My idea for HB is to allocate a total affordable sum - say £10bn then distribute that between those who need it - no more no less. Fix the cost. Landlords would soon adjust.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Fraser Nelson ‏@frasernelson 9m
    UK economy flat, yet prime London prices now 20% higher than 2008 peak: http://goo.gl/gtMJ3 . Osborne’s new bubble: http://specc.ie/187c0Fs


    Rents in Greater London up 8% per annum, no wonder the benefit bill has to rise as Osborne inflates the housing bubble.

    Yawn. Nothing to do with Osborne. It's devaluation, instability abroad, and the plethora of foreign buyers (one estate agent recently said 70%, IIRC, of his buyers are international in P/SP London)
    Always better to read before commenting Charles.

    Average rents across the UK rose by 0.2% in April and are up 3.9% year-on-year as demand continues to outstrip supply in many areas. Greater London leads the way, with rental growth of nearly 8%,

    And further undermining your point about it all being top-end London driven

    However, in prime central London this picture is reversed, as rents for luxury London homes are on a downward trajectory. Average rents edged down by 0.1% in April and are down 3.2% year on year, reflecting how this market is more closely aligned to the City jobs market – a sector which has been turbulent since the financial crisis.


    Yawn. Nothing to do with Osborne.

    Nothing ever is, is it?

    Fraser's comment was about prices, not about rents. Do pay attention at the back.

    You'll probably find that outside Charles' world the two are linked.

    Wages rising by 0.4%pa and rents by 3.9% outside London and 8% in Greater London = lots more housing benefit spending.
    Stoked deliberately by Osborne.


    Buy-to-let landlords could be the biggest beneficiaries of the Bank of England’s expanded Funding for Lending Scheme, providing another state-backed fillip to the property market.
    The BoE gave the go-ahead on Wednesday for banks tapping its new funding mechanism for small and medium-sized businesses to be allowed to lend the money on to property investors.


    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a89f02b6-ad04-11e2-9454-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2UVpSLL5U

    "Nothing to to with Osborne, all foreign buyers faults"





    Yes, rents and prices can be connected, but not directly. One of the major trends over the last 15 years has been a compression in P/SP rental yields (i.e. rents not going up as fast as prices). That has somewhat reversed over the last few years as people who would previously have bought are now renting.

    Please provide evidence that Osborne is "deliberately stoking rents".

    The FLS will, in my view, only have a marginal (and indirect) impact on the BTL sector & in any event Fraser's tweet was historical not forward looking. I'm not worried about that scheme particularly - it's about helping the banks. Less keen on the help to buy scheme, but if it is truly temporary then it won't do too much harm.

    FWIW: I keep a very close eye on the P/SP residential market in London, as well as the commercial and rental sectors inside the M25. For me it's more important than just surfing the net and misquoting a few newspaper articles and blogs.

  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Plato said:

    I'm a rebel - I don't have a tattoo. I associate them with Triads, very elderly merchant seamen and people who think they're rebellious and have actually just joined an indelible fashion mistake trend that you can't donate to jumble sales...

    @Plato

    I am a fellow rebel, but have seen some very expressive skin decoration in countries where the climate does not demand the wearing of clothes - presume that state of affairs has not reached East Sussex?
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925
    Plato said:

    OT I keep noticing open topped red London buses as *scene* props in US tv dramas, they are usually tour city tour buses - is this a very recent thing? I travelled across America and never saw one - was I unlucky or are they rare beasts?

    They have been very common in New York for quite a few years I believe. Can't remember seeing them in Boston, Chicago, Washington or San Francisco, but maybe I am so used to seeing them in the UK I don't notice them.

  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    tim said:

    Fraser Nelson ‏@frasernelson 9m
    UK economy flat, yet prime London prices now 20% higher than 2008 peak: http://goo.gl/gtMJ3 . Osborne’s new bubble: http://specc.ie/187c0Fs


    Rents in Greater London up 8% per annum, no wonder the benefit bill has to rise as Osborne inflates the housing bubble.

    Come now. While part of this may be a bubble, a big part of this is fundamentals, after more than a decade of increasing the population through mass immigration, yet no-one being prepared to do what it takes to increase the supply of housing to match.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925
    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Fraser Nelson ‏@frasernelson 9m
    UK economy flat, yet prime London prices now 20% higher than 2008 peak: http://goo.gl/gtMJ3 . Osborne’s new bubble: http://specc.ie/187c0Fs


    Rents in Greater London up 8% per annum, no wonder the benefit bill has to rise as Osborne inflates the housing bubble.

    Yawn. Nothing to do with Osborne. It's devaluation, instability abroad, and the plethora of foreign buyers (one estate agent recently said 70%, IIRC, of his buyers are international in P/SP London)
    Always better to read before commenting Charles.

    Average rents across the UK rose by 0.2% in April and are up 3.9% year-on-year as demand continues to outstrip supply in many areas. Greater London leads the way, with rental growth of nearly 8%,

    And further undermining your point about it all being top-end London driven

    However, in prime central London this picture is reversed, as rents for luxury London homes are on a downward trajectory. Average rents edged down by 0.1% in April and are down 3.2% year on year, reflecting how this market is more closely aligned to the City jobs market – a sector which has been turbulent since the financial crisis.


    Yawn. Nothing to do with Osborne.

    Nothing ever is, is it?

    Fraser's comment was about prices, not about rents. Do pay attention at the back.

    You'll probably find that outside Charles' world the two are linked.

    Wages rising by 0.4%pa and rents by 3.9% outside London and 8% in Greater London = lots more housing benefit spending.
    Stoked deliberately by Osborne.


    Buy-to-let landlords could be the biggest beneficiaries of the Bank of England’s expanded Funding for Lending Scheme, providing another state-backed fillip to the property market.
    The BoE gave the go-ahead on Wednesday for banks tapping its new funding mechanism for small and medium-sized businesses to be allowed to lend the money on to property investors.


    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a89f02b6-ad04-11e2-9454-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2UVpSLL5U

    "Nothing to to with Osborne, all foreign buyers faults"





    Another good reason to adopt IDS's no HB to under 25s idea - savings would be substantial.

    It would certainly be a great way to deincentivise young people in areas with few jobs to go to look for work in areas where there are more jobs.

  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Plato said:

    OT I keep noticing open topped red London buses as *scene* props in US tv dramas, they are usually tour city tour buses - is this a very recent thing? I travelled across America and never saw one - was I unlucky or are they rare beasts?

    They have been very common in New York for quite a few years I believe. Can't remember seeing them in Boston, Chicago, Washington or San Francisco, but maybe I am so used to seeing them in the UK I don't notice them.

    They definitely don't get them in Chicago. The place doesn't really get that many visitors on account of it being the only place worth seeing from a tourist perspective for many miles.
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @Southam

    Wasn't the age limit on HB limited to those that lived near their parents?
  • Options
    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    tim said:

    On topic I think Hammond wants to be Chancellor

    But didnt you interpret his opposition to gay marriage as a sign he didnt want to be leader when an alternative interpretation of those comments and his ability to find himself out of the country on the day of the debates / votes was that he was very much positioning himself in relation to the parliamentary party?
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,925
    Socrates said:

    Plato said:

    OT I keep noticing open topped red London buses as *scene* props in US tv dramas, they are usually tour city tour buses - is this a very recent thing? I travelled across America and never saw one - was I unlucky or are they rare beasts?

    They have been very common in New York for quite a few years I believe. Can't remember seeing them in Boston, Chicago, Washington or San Francisco, but maybe I am so used to seeing them in the UK I don't notice them.

    They definitely don't get them in Chicago. The place doesn't really get that many visitors on account of it being the only place worth seeing from a tourist perspective for many miles.

    We are going to a wedding there in the summer, then up into Michigan for a week by the lake. I am looking forward to it a lot I have to say.

  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Financier said:

    Plato said:

    I'm a rebel - I don't have a tattoo. I associate them with Triads, very elderly merchant seamen and people who think they're rebellious and have actually just joined an indelible fashion mistake trend that you can't donate to jumble sales...

    @Plato

    I am a fellow rebel, but have seen some very expressive skin decoration in countries where the climate does not demand the wearing of clothes - presume that state of affairs has not reached East Sussex?
    Ha! Indeed not. Chinese tattoos are very impressive and just make the prisoner/gangbanger type even more moronic. I knew a chappy who only had the outline of his Celtic design tattoo done, he was big enough to say it hurt to much to go back and get it coloured in :^O

    And once attended a training course run by a tax collector from the Inland Rev and the lady was the stereotypical beautiful French femme fatale and had about 20 gorgeous Chinese flower tattoos on her arms and decollage - I hate to think what she would look like at 50 with them...
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    isamisam Posts: 40,916

    @JackW - I'm blaming auto-correct for the Americanisation of my spelling, honest.

    @NickPalmer - Glad you like the links, also helps me, when I make an assertion in a header, that's evidence for my assertion.

    @Antifrank - I desperately wanted to put in a reference to Bizarre Love Triangle and World In Motion, but it just wasn't meant to be.


    You missed my reference to Crystal, my fav New Order song (though not much of a fan really)
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Nelson is slightly (!) naive if he thinks govt can control house prices in a certain city.

    Suggest the reason for the increase is from furriners extracting their money from dodgy Eurozone etc economies and using it to buy property in the SE.

    Suggestions on how he could prevent this on the back of a communist party manifesto.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2013
    The news is so good that even antifrank is worshipping at the shrine of St. George Our Saviour

    The CBI has released its monthly survey of the consumer services sector. Confirming both antifrank's recognition that St. George is increasingly being seen as the "man who got it right" and SeanT's observations of economic recovery in Legoland, the CBI has reported business volumes rising at 10%, the fastest rate of growth experienced in the sector since August 2007.

    The survey of 170 companies revealed expectations of a firm quarter ahead, with business and professional services expecting solid growth in both the value and volume of business. Consumer services firms predict that growth in business will be sustained and profits in both sectors are expected to rise strongly.

    And it is not just the hard data that is showing the recovery. Confidence measures also showed substantial positive moves.

    In the Consumer Services Sector

    Optimism about business conditions rose further on the previous quarter (+30% compared with +6%), which is the strongest increase since September 1999 (+34%) and the third consecutive quarter of improvement.

    In the Business and Professional Services Sector

    Optimism about business conditions rose significantly, (+29%), at its fastest rate since February 2010 (+34%).

    All is not entirely rosy though. Although retail services have seen volumes, sales and profits rise substantially, B2B services have been flat over the first four months of this year and the uptick in confidence reflects belief in future growth rather than experience of actual growth. The supply of credit finance remains constrained and employment is slightly down as firms have given short term priority to increasing productivity. Investment and capex is still below optimal levels.

    Nonetheless and overall, a cause for celebration. George is so confident that he is able to leave the keys to No 11 on the Cabinet table during coffee breaks without fear of theft.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    A younger relative sometimes gets a "henna tattoo" ..... very popular on Thai beaches, apparently ..... for his holiday. Wears off in about 2 -3 weeks.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013

    A younger relative sometimes gets a "henna tattoo" ..... very popular on Thai beaches, apparently ..... for his holiday. Wears off in about 2 -3 weeks.

    Hand tattoos are very popular in India - henna is very strange stuff. It's infamous for being impossible to successfully permanent dye over on hair. Never used it myself as I think its a horrible colour, but its the one thing that always gets a mention on the box for other hair dyes as a no-no. Perhaps a PB chemist can explain what's going on there?

    EDIT - had a look on Wiki and this looks evil stuff.

    Para-phenylenediamine "black henna" use is widespread, particularly in tourist areas.[51] Because the blistering reaction appears 3 to 12 days after the application, most tourists have left and do not return to show how much damage the artist has done. This permits the artists to continue injuring others, unaware they are causing severe injuries. The high profit margins of "black henna" and the demand for body art that emulates "tribal tattoos" further encourage artists to deny the dangers.[52][53]

    It is not difficult to recognize and avoid para-phenylenediamine "black henna":[54]

    if a paste stains torso skin black in less than ½ hour, it has PPD in it.
    if the paste is mixed with peroxide, or if peroxide is wiped over the design to bring out the color, it has PPD in it.

    Anyone who has an itching and blistering reaction to a black body stain should go to a doctor, and report that they have had an application of para-phenylenediamine to their skin.

    PPD sensitivity is lifelong. A person who has become sensitized through "black henna tattoos" may have future allergic reactions to perfumes, printer ink, chemical hair dyes, textile dye, photographic developer, sunscreen and some medications. A person who has had a "black henna tattoo" should consult their physician about health consequences of para-phenylenediamine sensitization
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    Fraser Nelson ‏@frasernelson 9m
    UK economy flat, yet prime London prices now 20% higher than 2008 peak: http://goo.gl/gtMJ3 . Osborne’s new bubble: http://specc.ie/187c0Fs

    Let's look at the facts.

    ONS Housing Index
             UK      London   UK excl. UK excl.                    
    London London & S.E.

    2002 Feb 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0
    2007 Oct 184.4 171.0 188.0 196.3
    2010 Jun 177.1 171.1 178.7 184.8
    2013 Feb 176.2 184.6 173.9 178.1
    The peak was October 2007 not in 2008.

    London prices have increased by 7.9% not 20% since the peak. This rate of increase is approximately half general inflation growth rates.

    The post peak recovery in London started from a substantially lower base than in the UK as a whole and is therefore broadly corrective..
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @AveryLP_redux (it's so difficult to keep track of your many soubriquets) I think you're overegging my enthusiasm for the MP for Tatton - and then some. I merely noted his likely current line of thought.

    For 2015 he should be focussing less on past success, real or imagined, and more on the forward offer.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @SeanT Many of the Telegraph's readers are elderly. You seem determined to accelerate the decline in the website's readership by causing apoplectic fits.

    I do feel, however, that the picture editor could have been more enterprising. Not even a hint of a transvestite antelope?
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    SeanT said:
    Antelopes are prone to transvestism.

    Your evidence base?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,235
    antifrank said:

    @AveryLP_redux (it's so difficult to keep track of your many soubriquets) I think you're overegging my enthusiasm for the MP for Tatton - and then some. I merely noted his likely current line of thought.

    For 2015 he should be focussing less on past success, real or imagined, and more on the forward offer.

    Good advice, not least because even by 2015 the future will still be brighter than the past. What he needs is convincing evidence pointing to a credible trend and a "don't ruin it now" argument. This is still possible.

    Tories have to bear in mind that when the Great British people feel properly flush and have some spare cash they indulge themselves with really silly things like Labour governments to spend it for them. On the right track but not there yet is the key.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,235
    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    Fraser Nelson ‏@frasernelson 9m
    UK economy flat, yet prime London prices now 20% higher than 2008 peak: http://goo.gl/gtMJ3 . Osborne’s new bubble: http://specc.ie/187c0Fs

    Let's look at the facts.

    ONS Housing Index
             UK      London   UK excl. UK excl.                    
    London London & S.E.

    2002 Feb 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0
    2007 Oct 184.4 171.0 188.0 196.3
    2010 Jun 177.1 171.1 178.7 184.8
    2013 Feb 176.2 184.6 173.9 178.1
    The peak was October 2007 not in 2008.

    London prices have increased by 7.9% not 20% since the peak. This rate of increase is approximately half general inflation growth rates.

    The post peak recovery in London started from a substantially lower base than in the UK as a whole and is therefore substantially corrective..
    Anyone who thinks that the UK is in any danger of a housing boom clearly has no contact with the industry. We will not have another housing boom until real wages are growing again and that is at least two years away.

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,378
    edited May 2013
    antifrank said:

    @SeanT Many of the Telegraph's readers are elderly. You seem determined to accelerate the decline in the website's readership by causing apoplectic fits.

    I do feel, however, that the picture editor could have been more enterprising. Not even a hint of a transvestite antelope?

    I wanted to see this

    "Ducks are fond of lesbian orgies"
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,331

    Final post of the morning.

    There was a VI poll with that ComRes poll

    The poll for the Open Europe think tank also found that 39 per cent of those who had voted Tory in 2010 would back UKIP if the European election were held now.

    In a general election, the poll suggested Labour would take 37 per cent of the votes.
    This would give Labour an 11-point lead over the Conservatives on 26 per cent, with UKIP on 20 per cent.

    The Liberal Democrats would be trailing behind on 9 per cent.



    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331759/UKIP-set-European-poll-success-powers-ahead-Tories-Labour.html#ixzz2UXQwmApt


    That's really the strangest poll I've ever seen. With the SAME SAMPLE, the DIFFERENCE of Westminster and European intentions appear to be:

    Lab -14 (!)
    Con -5
    UKIP +7 (not that much of a jump really)
    LD +8 (!! wtf?)
    Others +4 (OK, that's the Greens)

    We can spin that all kinds of ways, but it's well weird, isn't it? And before we try to explain it, it's not at all like the last YG Westminster/Europe poll a couple of weeks back, which was IIRC something like a plausible -8/-8/+12/-1. How can both be right? Perhaps there were some intervening questions which affected the mood of respondents.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,235
    antifrank said:

    @SeanT Many of the Telegraph's readers are elderly. You seem determined to accelerate the decline in the website's readership by causing apoplectic fits.

    I do feel, however, that the picture editor could have been more enterprising. Not even a hint of a transvestite antelope?

    That one bemused me but some of the comments that the Telegraph seem happy to publish seem dangerously close to illegal to me. Certainly a lot closer to offences under the Equality Act than some daft lads mags.

    I appreciate the brief is to poke the beast with a stick for a reaction but I really think a bit of moderator activity is called for.

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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    Hammond on manoeuvres, according to OED.
This discussion has been closed.