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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Clegg makes clear that the LDs want the coalition to contin

SystemSystem Posts: 11,007
edited May 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Clegg makes clear that the LDs want the coalition to continue right up to GE2015

So the blues factions who would like to see the arrangement ending prior to 2015 have got a problem. For Clegg is clearly not going to provide a supply and confidence arrangement should the Tories break the deal unilaterally.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    The Tories aren't going to risk an election while UKIP are on 20%. They need to hope Farage burns out at some point.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,292
    Wise move from Clegg.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Quincel said:

    The Tories aren't going to risk an election while UKIP are on 20%. They need to hope Farage burns out at some point.

    But you think the LDs would risk an election?

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    DC not looking to end the coalition. Nor is Clegg.

    May 2015 is the date.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,292
    Was it ever a loving marriage?

    I've always viewed it as a marriage of convenience
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Also as NP pointed out in the previous thread, YouGov today shows that the LDs are losing a part of their youth to the Greens. They need their conference to reset their stall.
  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949

    But you think the LDs would risk an election

    No, I just agree with Mike that the Tories are the only ones thinking of breaking up the coalition. The LDs are even less likely to risk an election given they have slipped from 11-15% in polls (ie. "Maybe if we pick up a couple of points in the campaign we can save 40 seats") to 7-11% (ie. "If we don't have a great campaign we'll lose 40 seats, or worse.")

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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The only people who thought that this coalition was ever going to be a happy marriage were mugs. Our host has a picture of one.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,292
    edited May 2013
    From the Times piece, One of the reasons why the Lib Dems don't want to leave the coalition is the expectation barring black swans, is that the economic news is going to be largely positive between now and the general election and the governing parties should get a boost from that.
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    One component of the scenario whereby the Coalition breaks up early was always that Clegg was deposed as leader of the Lib Dems. It might be his policy to keep the Coalition going until May 2015, but if the Lib Dems end up with a new leader in 2014 their policy is likely to be different. So this changes nothing.

    For what it is worth I do not think it is that likely that the Lib Dems will dump Clegg and pull the plug on the Coalition early, but that option is still on the table.
  • Options
    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    edited May 2013
    Listening to David Cameron on Radio4 just now. He was eloquent and heartfelt in his support for the Gay Marriage bill. And he will rightly win a place as a social reformer for that.

    On the other stuff including Europe, Cameron again showed that amongst his contemporaries he really has no equal in dealing with these kinds of interviews. Very Blair like, though not quite as polished or as in control of events as the Great Tone.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @MikeSmithson

    "The one alternative scenario I can envisage is Cameron being ditched as CON leader and his replacement, Hammond perhaps, getting a polling honeymoon. "

    Let's see in GE2015 - I think that's incredible wishful thinking on your part that Cameron will be deposed in favour of anyone else. Still, happy betting to the contrary.
  • Options
    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Yay to a new Thames crossing!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22607847

    Option B or C please.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    There's no reason for the Tories to want to pull the plug. There's nothing they could do as a minority government that they can't do in coalition, and there's probably quite a lot they couldn't do which they can at present. Unless the polls change so substantially that it appears that prompting an early election is likely to pay dividends, that's not going to change. The logic today is the same as the logic was in 2010.

    The 'marriage' that Mike refers to has never been between the two parties but is much more personal - primarily a very close working relationship between Clegg and Cameron, but also between their respective inner circles. To the extent that it is a marriage, it remains strong on that level, it's just that the two principles are becoming increasingly irritated with their two families (but both need them).

    Even so, events are not entirely within either man's control. I don't believe either Clegg or Cameron wants to break up the coalition before the general election. Whether the backbench Tory MPs or the Lib Dem activists at Conference will think differently - and act on that thought - is a different matter.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,292
    From the Times

    One MP said the past two weeks could prove terminal to Mr Cameron’s leadership. “Our chances of winning the next election are evaporating,” the MP said.

    Several MPs said they expected a flurry of letters to be sent to Graham Brady, chairman of the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers, demanding Mr Cameron’s resignation. If Mr Brady were to receive 46 such letters, it would trigger a vote of no confidence.
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    BenM said:

    Listening to David Cameron on Radio4 just now. He was eloquent and heartfelt in his support for the Gay Marriage bill. And he will rightly win a place as a social reformer for that.

    On the other stuff including Europe, Cameron again showed that amongst his contemporaries he really has no equal in dealing with these kinds of interviews. Very Blair like, though not quite as polished or as in control of events as the Great Tone.


    BenM

    What was Cameron saying about the EU? Cheers
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Eagles, it could, but if so it would be as much (perhaps more) down to backbenchers than Cameron.
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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    I notice there's no PMQ's today with the Commons on a 13 day Whitsun recess and that following the usual time off at Easter and further time off prior to the recent state opening of parliament. Cameron though will be delighted that for the few days the Commons actually bothered to work he found time to push through the all important same sex marriage bill. Cameron will in fact not face a PMQs for 6 weeks - no wonder he was so relaxed on Radio 4 this morning.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,292

    Mr. Eagles, it could, but if so it would be as much (perhaps more) down to backbenchers than Cameron.

    If the Conservatives collapsed the coalition without reason, then no other party would ever go into coalition with us again.

    It would be the greatest betrayal since Brutus stabbed Caesar in the front.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    Listened to Clegg on Radio 5 - he's not wrong, both CON and LD would be utterly slaughtered if there was a GE now. Best for both (And the country) to stick it out to 2015.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    From the Times

    One MP said the past two weeks could prove terminal to Mr Cameron’s leadership. “Our chances of winning the next election are evaporating,” the MP said.

    Several MPs said they expected a flurry of letters to be sent to Graham Brady, chairman of the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers, demanding Mr Cameron’s resignation. If Mr Brady were to receive 46 such letters, it would trigger a vote of no confidence.

    I really hope they don't, *Looks at Ed Mili/Ed Balls next PM/Deputy betting slips.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,822
    Morning all :)

    To be fair, Nick Clegg has been entirely consistent about this since May 2010 - the Coalition is for a full five years and that's how it's going to be. One can almost hear the palpable groans from the UKIP-inclined as their moment starts to slip away from them.

    It is, as always, "the economy, stupid" and many voters will forgive almost anything if there is a feeling about that on a personal level their financial situation is improving. If the Conservative backbenchers want to end the Coalition, they're going to have to grow a pair and stab the Prime Minister in the back and in the front at the same time. Clegg's speech makes it clear that they're going to have to do their own dirty work and frankly I doubt any of them have the stomach for it.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Incidentally, here's my piece on consoles: http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/console-wars-and-loser-is.html

    Still some uncertainty over the Xbox (how many games will need a constant connection and whether there will be a pre-owned fee for games/how would it work).
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    Let's see in GE2015 - I think that's incredible wishful thinking on the swivel eyed loons part that Cammie and the tories would benefit from banging on about Europe. Still, happy incompetent spinning to the contrary. ;^ )
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    OT but heartening

    German software company SAP says it hopes to recruit hundreds of people with autism, saying they have a unique talent for information technology.

    The firm said that by 2020, 1% of its global workforce of 65,000 employees would be people with autism.

    Autism is a developmental disorder that can cause problems with social interaction and physical behaviour.

    However, some people with the condition are highly intelligent and have a keen attention to detail.

    SAP executive Luisa Delgado said the company believed that "innovation comes from the edges".

    She added: "Only by employing people who think differently and spark innovation will SAP be prepared to handle the challenges of the 21st Century."

    SAP has already hired six people with autism at its office in Bangalore, India, where they work as software testers.

    The firm said its productivity had increased as a result of their efforts, and it now plans to take on more such staff in other countries.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22621829
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Interesting post, Mr. Financier.
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Financier said:

    OT but heartening

    German software company SAP says it hopes to recruit hundreds of people with autism, saying they have a unique talent for information technology.

    The firm said that by 2020, 1% of its global workforce of 65,000 employees would be people with autism.

    Autism is a developmental disorder that can cause problems with social interaction and physical behaviour.

    However, some people with the condition are highly intelligent and have a keen attention to detail.

    SAP executive Luisa Delgado said the company believed that "innovation comes from the edges".

    She added: "Only by employing people who think differently and spark innovation will SAP be prepared to handle the challenges of the 21st Century."

    SAP has already hired six people with autism at its office in Bangalore, India, where they work as software testers.

    The firm said its productivity had increased as a result of their efforts, and it now plans to take on more such staff in other countries.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22621829

    It has long been known that a lot of high flyers in science and other creative industries show elements of autism spectrum behaviour. Asperger's is the most common and when only slightly impacted, sufferer's exhibit social awkwardness, single mindedness, and obsession.

    How many on here exhibit these traits? :-)
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @Financier - what an excellent idea and finally recognising that some conditions are actually highly suited to the job in hand.
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    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    tim said:

    Norm said:

    I notice there's no PMQ's today with the Commons on a 13 day Whitsun recess and that following the usual time off at Easter and further time off prior to the recent state opening of parliament. Cameron though will be delighted that for the few days the Commons actually bothered to work he found time to push through the all important same sex marriage bill. Cameron will in fact not face a PMQs for 6 weeks - no wonder he was so relaxed on Radio 4 this morning.

    Cameron's shutting of parliament on Tuesdays rather than Thursdays to avoid PMQ's may not help him this time as his MP's get to spend more time with their angry membership associations

    No fan of Camerons, but apparently he has missed fewer PMQ's than Brown or Blair. His predecessors spent more time out of the country and were happy to leave their deputies to do PMQ's. I am guessing with Clegg being the deputy, that Cameron tries to avoid this if possible.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    As I've said before, either party would have to be terminally insane to collapse the coalition just at the point when we are finally getting to see the benefits from all the painful decisions. Certainly neither the LibDem nor Conservative leadership teams are insane, but it can't be denied that the past few weeks have suggested that the suicidal tendency which ran through the Conservative Party for over a decade until 2007 seems to have reappeared.

    Incidentally, as BenM (rather surprisingly) points out, anyone who doubts Cameron's talents should listen to the Today interview of this morning with an open mind.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Blue_rog said:

    Financier said:

    OT but heartening

    German software company SAP says it hopes to recruit hundreds of people with autism, saying they have a unique talent for information technology.

    The firm said that by 2020, 1% of its global workforce of 65,000 employees would be people with autism.

    Autism is a developmental disorder that can cause problems with social interaction and physical behaviour.

    However, some people with the condition are highly intelligent and have a keen attention to detail.

    SAP executive Luisa Delgado said the company believed that "innovation comes from the edges".

    She added: "Only by employing people who think differently and spark innovation will SAP be prepared to handle the challenges of the 21st Century."

    SAP has already hired six people with autism at its office in Bangalore, India, where they work as software testers.

    The firm said its productivity had increased as a result of their efforts, and it now plans to take on more such staff in other countries.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22621829

    It has long been known that a lot of high flyers in science and other creative industries show elements of autism spectrum behaviour. Asperger's is the most common and when only slightly impacted, sufferer's exhibit social awkwardness, single mindedness, and obsession.

    How many on here exhibit these traits? :-)
    There are several self-described autism spectrum posters on PB - I'd suggest that lots of interweb types tend to this given the caricatures of geeky, nerdies.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013

    Incidentally, here's my piece on consoles: http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/console-wars-and-loser-is.html

    Still some uncertainty over the Xbox (how many games will need a constant connection and whether there will be a pre-owned fee for games/how would it work).

    Microsoft had a nightmare by sending out mixed messages but from what I know publishers will have the choice that they currently have on PCs about whether to include connectivity based DRM while always on has been reduced to periodic checks primarily for system updates if it is included at all.

    As for rental games, it's telling that few in the industry realise that Microsofts stance could very easily be matched by Sony's. Sony has not ruled out paying an activation fee for rental games. They merely confirmed that the PS4 would play them in some form.

    The other telling thing was that Microsoft lined up some of the best selling franchises in games today with the likes of FIFA, Madden, Forza, Halo, Call of Duty. Those 'casual' games are worth hundreds of millions.

    It's way to early to tell since E3 will be where the launch lineups are cemented and details get more concrete.

    What the launch also confirmed was that Microsoft would be paying little to no attention to the Japanese market with a heavily US centric press conference. That helps explain Sony's stock rise.



  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Mr Hodges heard R4 as well http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100218086/david-cameron-has-shown-why-he-will-fight-the-next-election-as-tory-leader-and-why-he-will-probably-win/


    David Cameron has just completed an interview on the Today programme in which he demonstrated why – despite the swivel-eyed lunacy of the past week – he is likely to still be Prime Minister after 2015.

    He was proud, he said, of his decision to push forward with gay marriage. Young gay boys (and girls) would be walking that bit taller this morning.

    There would be no more flip-flopping on Europe. There would be one referendum and one timetable. That would not be changing.

    There would be no more abuse of Nigel Farage and Ukip. Their challenge would be confronted, but not dismissed.

    And there would be no more abuse of his activists. He did not only admire them, he was “one of them”, he claimed.

    Obviously a single radio interview is not going to repair the damage of the past few days. But it has put them into perspective.

    There will be no more legislative distractions. The economy, along with welfare and education, would be the Prime Minister’s priority over the next two years, he said. And the fact he now feels able to focus on the economy with confidence tells it own, very important, story.

    David Cameron was also able to deploy a narrative that we shall hear a lot over the next 24 months, and it is a compelling one. “I’m prepared to take tough decisions, and if necessary confront my own party, to do what I think is right.” That is not a claim Ed Miliband can credibly make at this time.

    But the most significant thing about David Cameron’s performance was that it reminded his party what the Conservative party’s strongest asset will be at the 2015 election. It will be David Cameron...
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    hucks67 said:

    tim said:

    Norm said:

    I notice there's no PMQ's today with the Commons on a 13 day Whitsun recess and that following the usual time off at Easter and further time off prior to the recent state opening of parliament. Cameron though will be delighted that for the few days the Commons actually bothered to work he found time to push through the all important same sex marriage bill. Cameron will in fact not face a PMQs for 6 weeks - no wonder he was so relaxed on Radio 4 this morning.

    Cameron's shutting of parliament on Tuesdays rather than Thursdays to avoid PMQ's may not help him this time as his MP's get to spend more time with their angry membership associations

    No fan of Camerons, but apparently he has missed fewer PMQ's than Brown or Blair. His predecessors spent more time out of the country and were happy to leave their deputies to do PMQ's. I am guessing with Clegg being the deputy, that Cameron tries to avoid this if possible.
    He may have missed fewer of the scheduled PMQs, but tim's point is that there have been fewer PMQs scheduled in total because Parliamentary sittings have ended on Tuesdays and started on Thursdays.

    I have no idea whether this is true or not, but your response misses the substance of his accusation.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,207
    edited May 2013
    Just heard the Beeb say the Coalition will last "Right up until polling day". I presume they meant 2015!
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Oh, goody - looks like there's another £50 coming my way from tim:

    From 2014, 102 new free schools are set to open after being granted approval from the Department for Education.

    England currently has 81 free schools, with another 109 set to open in September.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22607964
  • Options
    It is unsurprising that a politician rules out an option which could endanger his job(s).
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    To be fair, Nick Clegg has been entirely consistent about this since May 2010 - the Coalition is for a full five years and that's how it's going to be. One can almost hear the palpable groans from the UKIP-inclined as their moment starts to slip away from them.

    It is, as always, "the economy, stupid" and many voters will forgive almost anything if there is a feeling about that on a personal level their financial situation is improving. If the Conservative backbenchers want to end the Coalition, they're going to have to grow a pair and stab the Prime Minister in the back and in the front at the same time. Clegg's speech makes it clear that they're going to have to do their own dirty work and frankly I doubt any of them have the stomach for it.

    The coalition is one of the reasons for UKIP's rise, (not the only one of course). The more these ill sorted sides stick together, the greater the frustration of the tory rank and file and the L/dem conference. The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker. There is no doubt that he and Clegg will use the parliamentary recess to expound all sorts of lovlies for the public and the future, without back-bench interference and with the cooperation of tame journalists.

    Meanwhile another 20 months or so will be the time needed for UKIP to consolidate and then grow as a party and organisation. No Mr Stodge, the moment will not slip away for UKIP, 2014 will bring the EU elections and further big changes.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Pork, I agree entirely regarding the always-on uncertainty (just watching a Rev3 video about the reveal and it sounds like some AI in games could be farmed out to the Cloud, which would necessitate playing online).

    On rental/pre-owned games for the PS4, that's depressed me a little. However, they'd be fools to do so now, because that's a differentiating factor that plays strongly to their favour.

    Of course, console-makers are very capable of being foolish.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Are there any Netflix subscribers on PB? What do you think of the selection range?
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited May 2013
    Blue_rog said:

    Financier said:

    OT but heartening

    German software company SAP says it hopes to recruit hundreds of people with autism, saying they have a unique talent for information technology.

    The firm said that by 2020, 1% of its global workforce of 65,000 employees would be people with autism.

    Autism is a developmental disorder that can cause problems with social interaction and physical behaviour.

    However, some people with the condition are highly intelligent and have a keen attention to detail.

    SAP executive Luisa Delgado said the company believed that "innovation comes from the edges".

    She added: "Only by employing people who think differently and spark innovation will SAP be prepared to handle the challenges of the 21st Century."

    SAP has already hired six people with autism at its office in Bangalore, India, where they work as software testers.

    The firm said its productivity had increased as a result of their efforts, and it now plans to take on more such staff in other countries.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22621829

    It has long been known that a lot of high flyers in science and other creative industries show elements of autism spectrum behaviour. Asperger's is the most common and when only slightly impacted, sufferer's exhibit social awkwardness, single mindedness, and obsession.
    Steve Jobs springs to mind.

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,908
    BenM said:

    Yay to a new Thames crossing!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22607847

    Option B or C please.

    Option A should really be a non-starter for a whole host of reasons.

    Although it's probably more costly, I'd got for option C, heading across the Thames between Gravesend and the ruins of Shornmead fort. This opens up more areas for development both north and south of the Thames, and provides a much more logical route for people travelling from the A1 to Dover.

    For those wanting to see the options, there is a map at:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/200489/map-of-options.pdf
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited May 2013
    Plato said:

    Are there any Netflix subscribers on PB? What do you think of the selection range?

    Wank. I pay tunnelbear a couple of quid a month to access the netflix US selection which is infinitely superior (VPN tunnel so looks like you're in the US - it also worked from a Hong Kong hotel room, which amazed me). Worth every penny and should be right up your street as they get US tv series pretty quickly.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
  • Options
    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Bad retail figures.

    Borrowing for 2012-13 revised down a smidge but nothing to crow about.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Question for @MarqueeMark re actors

    The more US tv I see, the smaller the pool of regular actors appears - I used to see maybe a handful of regulars, now its almost every series with at least one familiar face.

    It gone further than simply the genre, timeframe or network I'm watching - its everywhere. is it my imagination or have casting decisions been concentrated in fewer hands these days?
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214

    Oh, goody - looks like there's another £50 coming my way from tim:

    From 2014, 102 new free schools are set to open after being granted approval from the Department for Education.

    England currently has 81 free schools, with another 109 set to open in September.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22607964

    Towards the next gig of the pbTories Lonely Loony Hearts Club Band (opines the lead singer - don't think I didn't notice that!)?

  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,207
    @antifrank

    Thanks for the Depeche Mode review in the last thread. I saw them at the O2 in Dec 2009 and thought it was great, when are you seeing them next week? I'm on the 29th.

    Here's a set of pics I took in 2009:

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=Sunil060902+Depeche&redirs=1&profile=default
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Charles said:

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?

    I think that is exactly the complaint.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Anorak said:

    Plato said:

    Are there any Netflix subscribers on PB? What do you think of the selection range?

    Wank. I pay tunnelbear a couple of quid a month to access the netflix US selection which is infinitely superior (VPN tunnel so looks like you're in the US - it also worked from a Hong Kong hotel room, which amazed me). Worth every penny and should be right up your street as they get US tv series pretty quickly.
    Thanx - I thought it was just me being picky - the range seems very poor for a business based on having the equiv of TPB on a legit monthly payment plan. I've read a few articles about them losing rights to a bunch of networks so it undermines the whole point of the service - its like the old internet *walled garden* of the 90s when only a bit of the web was available.

    Will check out tunnelbear.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013

    Mr. Pork, I agree entirely regarding the always-on uncertainty (just watching a Rev3 video about the reveal and it sounds like some AI in games could be farmed out to the Cloud, which would necessitate playing online).

    On rental/pre-owned games for the PS4, that's depressed me a little. However, they'd be fools to do so now, because that's a differentiating factor that plays strongly to their favour.

    Of course, console-makers are very capable of being foolish.

    There are actually sound reasons for Sony and Microsoft including some form of fee for rental. They are both moving to a digital only publishing model and this will likely be the last generation which has 'hard copy' discs and packaging for games. So it makes sense to phase out a heavy reliance on others retailing their games. That being so they also are under pressure from game developers and publishers to maximise their revenue in the meantime by effectively killing or at least curbing the second hand market. This seems short sighted since it would effectively lock out those who cannot afford the initial high retail price of games but the model both companies are really looking at is Steam on the PC. You will end up with a far greater variety of price points and a far more aggressive focus on heavily discounted sales which drop the price after the initial retail period.

    The problem is if they try to kill the rental market without having that aggressive shift in pricing in place to soften the blow. That's why it is not a simple proposition for either company as they simply will not have a large back catalogue of games on their new systems to retail at a discount price while developers for the new systems will incur an extremely heavy cost for the increased workload and staffing the greater levels of complexity the new systems necessitate. For that reason there will be no big discounts on those systems for a while with the publishers using a cross platform approach to use the existing sales and huge base on the PS3 and 360 to effectively subsidise their development on the new systems.





  • Options
    ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    Plato said:

    Mr Hodges heard R4 as well http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100218086/david-cameron-has-shown-why-he-will-fight-the-next-election-as-tory-leader-and-why-he-will-probably-win/


    David Cameron has just completed an interview on the Today programme in which he demonstrated why – despite the swivel-eyed lunacy of the past week – he is likely to still be Prime Minister after 2015.

    He was proud, he said, of his decision to push forward with gay marriage. Young gay boys (and girls) would be walking that bit taller this morning.

    There would be no more flip-flopping on Europe. There would be one referendum and one timetable. That would not be changing.

    There would be no more abuse of Nigel Farage and Ukip. Their challenge would be confronted, but not dismissed.

    And there would be no more abuse of his activists. He did not only admire them, he was “one of them”, he claimed.

    Obviously a single radio interview is not going to repair the damage of the past few days. But it has put them into perspective.

    There will be no more legislative distractions. The economy, along with welfare and education, would be the Prime Minister’s priority over the next two years, he said. And the fact he now feels able to focus on the economy with confidence tells it own, very important, story.

    David Cameron was also able to deploy a narrative that we shall hear a lot over the next 24 months, and it is a compelling one. “I’m prepared to take tough decisions, and if necessary confront my own party, to do what I think is right.” That is not a claim Ed Miliband can credibly make at this time.

    But the most significant thing about David Cameron’s performance was that it reminded his party what the Conservative party’s strongest asset will be at the 2015 election. It will be David Cameron...

    But still no sign of him turning his back on being just another wing of the social democracy europhile party so still a complete waste of time voting for him or his version of the tory party. We already have two parties of social democrats does the country really need a third?

    Our big 3 parties are so busy fighting for who gets the 40% of voters in the middle that the needs and wants of the 30% at either end are being neglected. Then they wonder at the rise of parties like ukip. Frankly I am going to laugh myself silly if UKIP manage to give them all an electoral enema

  • Options
    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    BenM said:

    Yay to a new Thames crossing!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22607847

    Option B or C please.

    Option A should really be a non-starter for a whole host of reasons.

    Although it's probably more costly, I'd got for option C, heading across the Thames between Gravesend and the ruins of Shornmead fort. This opens up more areas for development both north and south of the Thames, and provides a much more logical route for people travelling from the A1 to Dover.

    For those wanting to see the options, there is a map at:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/200489/map-of-options.pdf
    I agree with you. Further east away from Dartford Crossing bottleneck the better. That's why I like option C.

    From my perch in north Kent I've always been bemused at just how far away the likes of Southend etc feel, even though I can see the town when looking north from the M2 past the Medway services.

    There's a lot of industry (and hence employment) along the Thames at this point, both north and south of the river, but there is no way I'd consider a job in Essex (although some people do the commute across every day of course) and no doubt the feeling is mutual in the likes of Thurrock, Grays, Canvey Island etc.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,130
    BenM said:

    Listening to David Cameron on Radio4 just now. He was eloquent and heartfelt in his support for the Gay Marriage bill. And he will rightly win a place as a social reformer for that.

    On the other stuff including Europe, Cameron again showed that amongst his contemporaries he really has no equal in dealing with these kinds of interviews. Very Blair like, though not quite as polished or as in control of events as the Great Tone.

    Very fair even generous comment. TBH I thought that he was allowed to say what he wanted and Jim Naughtie really should give himself a shake. I heard an interview he gave to Alex Salmond yesterday and it was embarrassing. There must be some middle ground between interviewers who talk over the top of people and those who are doormats but I can only presume it is harder than it looks.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Charles said:

    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
    If Mr Cameron stopped reading the Guardian - a lot of soft-right voters like me would vote for him.

    Until he does, we're NOTA or Kipper voters judging by the polls. I like him as a chap a lot, but he's just not even in the same chapter as me, nevermind the page.
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Plato said:

    The more US tv I see, the smaller the pool of regular actors appears - I used to see maybe a handful of regulars, now its almost every series with at least one familiar face.

    Doesn't the first point make the second inevitable, if we assume that US actors will have more than one acting job in their career?

    It's like with a packet of revels. The second one that you draw from the bag is most likely to be different to the first, but once you are halfway through the bag the chances are you have already had one of each type of revel, and so all subsequent revels will be a repeat of one you have already tasted.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,207

    BenM said:

    Yay to a new Thames crossing!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22607847

    Option B or C please.

    Option A should really be a non-starter for a whole host of reasons.

    Although it's probably more costly, I'd got for option C, heading across the Thames between Gravesend and the ruins of Shornmead fort. This opens up more areas for development both north and south of the Thames, and provides a much more logical route for people travelling from the A1 to Dover.

    For those wanting to see the options, there is a map at:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/200489/map-of-options.pdf
    I really wish Boris hadn't cancelled the Thames Gateway Crossing between Beckton and Thamesmead. Means using the Woolwich Ferry!

  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited May 2013
    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
    If Mr Cameron stopped reading the Guardian - a lot of soft-right voters like me would vote for him.

    Until he does, we're NOTA or Kipper voters judging by the polls. I like him as a chap a lot, but he's just not even in the same chapter as me, nevermind the page.
    I think you are getting distracted by the noise.

    At the end of the day, look at what he is trying to do. Even if he only makes good progress on these issues rather than solving them we'll be a better country for it:

    - Economy: rebalancing towards the private sector, reducing the deficit
    - Welfare: trying to break the dependency model
    - Education: giving kids from less advantaged background the chance for a great education
    - Europe: giving the people a say (albeit delayed)
    - Social issues: helping demonstrate Britain is a more tolerant society

    For a soft-right voter, really, what's there not to like?
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Plato said:

    The more US tv I see, the smaller the pool of regular actors appears - I used to see maybe a handful of regulars, now its almost every series with at least one familiar face.

    Doesn't the first point make the second inevitable, if we assume that US actors will have more than one acting job in their career?

    It's like with a packet of revels. The second one that you draw from the bag is most likely to be different to the first, but once you are halfway through the bag the chances are you have already had one of each type of revel, and so all subsequent revels will be a repeat of one you have already tasted.
    It was more my observation that despite the enormous talent pool available - the appearance of a small group of actors that dominate the most popular shows is on the increase, even if I discount for spin-offs.

    For example - Reggie Lee is the lacky cop in Grimm, he was the evil Mr Kim in Prison Break and has popped up elsewhere. I find myself seeing the same cast of actors all over the place and when once I'd think 'hmm I've seen them somewhere else' - I can now name several series off the top of my head.

    That can't be good for emerging talent if the casting bods are playing safe or using a house-system as it did decades ago.
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    BenM said:

    Bad retail figures.

    Borrowing for 2012-13 revised down a smidge but nothing to crow about.

    I would be more worried if the retail figures were good, given the continued squeeze on real wages. If the retail figures were good it would imply people were borrowing money to spend, which will end badly.

    The revised borrowing figures are that the deficit, excluding special factors, was down by £1.4bn, compared to the earlier estimate of £0.3bn. This is a fairly large difference, when you consider that at the new rate the deficit will be erased by 2099, rather than 2415 under the previous estimate.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    at the new rate the deficit will be erased by 2099, rather than 2415 under the previous estimate.
    316 years isn't that long in the scheme of things
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
    If Mr Cameron stopped reading the Guardian - a lot of soft-right voters like me would vote for him.

    Until he does, we're NOTA or Kipper voters judging by the polls. I like him as a chap a lot, but he's just not even in the same chapter as me, nevermind the page.
    I think you are getting distracted by the noise.

    At the end of the day, look at what he is trying to do. Even if he only makes good progress on these issues rather than solving them we'll be a better country for it:

    - Economy: rebalancing towards the private sector, reducing the deficit
    - Welfare: trying to break the dependency model
    - Education: giving kids from less advantaged background the chance for a great education
    - Europe: giving the people a say (albeit delayed)
    - Social issues: helping demonstrate Britain is a more tolerant society

    For a soft-right voter, really, what's there not to like?
    Sorry but no. Civil liberties, red-tape, nannying attempts et al aren't *noise* - they matter to me a great deal - and Cameron came to be PM because voters like me believed he was on the same page.

    And he's demonstrated that he's not by his own actions. Minimum alcohol pricing? FFS. That was the final straw on top of stuff like sugar or fat tax noises. It's pretty clear that Mr Cameron thinks he knows better than we do what is allowable re our own diet - that's not personal responsibility at all.

    If I wanted more New Labour - I'd have voted for it.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,130
    tim said:

    DavidL said:

    BenM said:

    Listening to David Cameron on Radio4 just now. He was eloquent and heartfelt in his support for the Gay Marriage bill. And he will rightly win a place as a social reformer for that.

    On the other stuff including Europe, Cameron again showed that amongst his contemporaries he really has no equal in dealing with these kinds of interviews. Very Blair like, though not quite as polished or as in control of events as the Great Tone.

    Very fair even generous comment. TBH I thought that he was allowed to say what he wanted and Jim Naughtie really should give himself a shake. I heard an interview he gave to Alex Salmond yesterday and it was embarrassing. There must be some middle ground between interviewers who talk over the top of people and those who are doormats but I can only presume it is harder than it looks.

    Dave needs asking what he's going to renegotiate in Europe.
    Thats where he can't answer and if he did would be ripped apart by his own side
    Even as a supporter it seemed to me that was one of several obvious questions that he was not asked. The truth is that Cameron is waiting for the chips to fall in Europe. When the EZ members need treaty changes (and they will, big time, even if they stay together, let alone if they fall apart) he will be able to measure their desperation and see what he can get but it is not a question he wants to or even can answer at the moment.

    He rather got away with the radical reforming government that seems to have pretty much run out of legislation in 3 years too.

    A very poor effort by an interviewer who is past it.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
    If Mr Cameron stopped reading the Guardian - a lot of soft-right voters like me would vote for him.

    Until he does, we're NOTA or Kipper voters judging by the polls. I like him as a chap a lot, but he's just not even in the same chapter as me, nevermind the page.
    I think you are getting distracted by the noise.

    At the end of the day, look at what he is trying to do. Even if he only makes good progress on these issues rather than solving them we'll be a better country for it:

    - Economy: rebalancing towards the private sector, reducing the deficit
    - Welfare: trying to break the dependency model
    - Education: giving kids from less advantaged background the chance for a great education
    - Europe: giving the people a say (albeit delayed)
    - Social issues: helping demonstrate Britain is a more tolerant society

    For a soft-right voter, really, what's there not to like?
    Sorry but no. Civil liberties, red-tape, nannying attempts et al aren't *noise* - they matter to me a great deal - and Cameron came to be PM because voters like me believed he was on the same page.

    And he's demonstrated that he's not by his own actions. Minimum alcohol pricing? FFS. That was the final straw on top of stuff like sugar or fat taxes.
    Haven't minimum alchol pricing and plain packaging for tobacco been effectively dropped though? And there are no fat taxes or sugar taxes. What happens is some junior minister makes a daft speech and the Daily Mail gets all excited - these things don't actually make it into law in most cases.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Charles said:

    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
    No! Cameron had a clear run on R4 this morning with Naughty in interruptus nonus mode.
    Doormats couldn't be more tamer that Naughty this morning. I bet if Farrage was being interviewed by him, Naughty would come out as a roaring lion.

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,130
    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
    If Mr Cameron stopped reading the Guardian - a lot of soft-right voters like me would vote for him.

    Until he does, we're NOTA or Kipper voters judging by the polls. I like him as a chap a lot, but he's just not even in the same chapter as me, nevermind the page.
    I think you are getting distracted by the noise.

    At the end of the day, look at what he is trying to do. Even if he only makes good progress on these issues rather than solving them we'll be a better country for it:

    - Economy: rebalancing towards the private sector, reducing the deficit
    - Welfare: trying to break the dependency model
    - Education: giving kids from less advantaged background the chance for a great education
    - Europe: giving the people a say (albeit delayed)
    - Social issues: helping demonstrate Britain is a more tolerant society

    For a soft-right voter, really, what's there not to like?

    Well reminded, as DC himself did this morning. Now he has to deliver on his main messages. I hope he read those threads on here about getting the barnacles off the boat!
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
    If Mr Cameron stopped reading the Guardian - a lot of soft-right voters like me would vote for him.

    Until he does, we're NOTA or Kipper voters judging by the polls. I like him as a chap a lot, but he's just not even in the same chapter as me, nevermind the page.
    I think you are getting distracted by the noise.

    At the end of the day, look at what he is trying to do. Even if he only makes good progress on these issues rather than solving them we'll be a better country for it:

    - Economy: rebalancing towards the private sector, reducing the deficit
    - Welfare: trying to break the dependency model
    - Education: giving kids from less advantaged background the chance for a great education
    - Europe: giving the people a say (albeit delayed)
    - Social issues: helping demonstrate Britain is a more tolerant society

    For a soft-right voter, really, what's there not to like?
    Sorry but no. Civil liberties, red-tape, nannying attempts et al aren't *noise* - they matter to me a great deal - and Cameron came to be PM because voters like me believed he was on the same page.

    And he's demonstrated that he's not by his own actions. Minimum alcohol pricing? FFS. That was the final straw on top of stuff like sugar or fat taxes.
    Haven't minimum alchol pricing and plain packaging for tobacco been effectively dropped though? And there are no fat taxes or sugar taxes. What happens is some junior minister makes a daft speech and the Daily Mail gets all excited - these things don't actually make it into law in most cases.
    And you are entirely missing my point here. If Mr Cameron had his way - we'd have all of them. It's his modus operandi - if the courts or EU hadn't told him to bugger off, we'd be travelling down this path with his blessing.

    I voted for less, not more of being told what to do - and the LDs are even worse for sticking their oar into my life. No wonder so many like me are polling Kipper or NOTA - dismissing our concerns isn't working for any of the Big Three. We want less Government, not more.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,908

    BenM said:

    Yay to a new Thames crossing!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22607847

    Option B or C please.

    Option A should really be a non-starter for a whole host of reasons.

    Although it's probably more costly, I'd got for option C, heading across the Thames between Gravesend and the ruins of Shornmead fort. This opens up more areas for development both north and south of the Thames, and provides a much more logical route for people travelling from the A1 to Dover.

    For those wanting to see the options, there is a map at:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/200489/map-of-options.pdf
    I really wish Boris hadn't cancelled the Thames Gateway Crossing between Beckton and Thamesmead. Means using the Woolwich Ferry!

    Yes, I thought that was a mistake at the time; I know nothing about the financials of it, but there is a dramatic need for a road crossing east of Dartford. Why did he cancel it? Was it just financial, or where there other reasons?
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,822
    MikeK said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    To be fair, Nick Clegg has been entirely consistent about this since May 2010 - the Coalition is for a full five years and that's how it's going to be. One can almost hear the palpable groans from the UKIP-inclined as their moment starts to slip away from them.

    It is, as always, "the economy, stupid" and many voters will forgive almost anything if there is a feeling about that on a personal level their financial situation is improving. If the Conservative backbenchers want to end the Coalition, they're going to have to grow a pair and stab the Prime Minister in the back and in the front at the same time. Clegg's speech makes it clear that they're going to have to do their own dirty work and frankly I doubt any of them have the stomach for it.

    The coalition is one of the reasons for UKIP's rise, (not the only one of course). The more these ill sorted sides stick together, the greater the frustration of the tory rank and file and the L/dem conference. The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker. There is no doubt that he and Clegg will use the parliamentary recess to expound all sorts of lovlies for the public and the future, without back-bench interference and with the cooperation of tame journalists.

    Meanwhile another 20 months or so will be the time needed for UKIP to consolidate and then grow as a party and organisation. No Mr Stodge, the moment will not slip away for UKIP, 2014 will bring the EU elections and further big changes.
    A shedload of wishful thinking, my friend. UKIP will of course do very well next year just as they did in 2009 and 2004 (for all the good it did them at the subsequent GE). The 30% or so who turned out at the start of the month and will turn out next June will ensure UKIP gets a good result and plenty of publicity.

    The problem is all the other voters who will turn out on May 7th 2015 and what they will do after three or four weeks of being told what a vote for UKIP will really mean (as distinct from what Nigel Farage will say) which is a Labour Government and an even stronger commitment to Europe and the likelihood of neither re-negotiation nor a referendum. Once that has been drummed into the electorate, most of the party's current support which is, as with most midterm protest votes, a mile wide and an inch deep, will either run back whence it came or simply stay at home.

    Yes, I can see UKIP polling 5% and they might even win a seat or two with luck but the idea of breaking any kind of mould isn't going to happen and as you and I watch Ed Miliband return to Downing Street from Buckingham Palace on the afternoon of Friday May 8th 2015, we can reflect on the fact that both our parties will be spending the next five years as irrelevancies on the political margins and derive such comfort as we can from that.

  • Options
    GloucesterOldSpotGloucesterOldSpot Posts: 50
    edited May 2013
    BenM said:

    Bad retail figures.

    Borrowing for 2012-13 revised down a smidge but nothing to crow about.

    "Pass along there, everyone, nothing to see."

    Public Finances

    Excellent figures on both the Public Sector Net Borrowing (PSNB) and the Public Sector currrent budget deficit.

    PSNB in April 2013 was a billion pounds less than April 2012 (after adjusting for the Post Offiice Pension assets transfer, the winding up of the BoE Special Liquidity Scheme).

    Even better still the underlying deficit - the metric of Osborne's primary fiscal mandate - tumbled!

    Public sector current budget deficit was £5.6 billion in April 2013; this is a £2.5 billion lower deficit than in April 2012, when there was a deficit of £8.2 billion.

    Remember how, in March, the OBR and all the Conways and his equivalent Beeboids were predicting the deficit flat-lining for the next two years?

    "Osborne is not reducing the deficit", you and tim crowed. Well he is. At the current rate, the deficit is being reduced by £30 billion per year.

    And that is in a month where GDP growth is somewhere around 0.3% (ONS) - 0.5% (NIESR).

    With the economic recovery only in second gear, you would expect the rate of deficit reduction to increase rather than decrease over the next two years in line with existing, let alone revised, GDP growth forecasts.

    And add to all this the icing on the fruitcake: the second ONS revision of the 2012-2013 borrowing figures confirming that Osborne undershot on all his key borrowing metrics last fiscal year.

    So nothing to crow about at all, Ben. We should all instead be standing open mouthed in awe and wonder before the boy prodigy and celebrate that he has been sent upon this world to deliver us all from Labour's sins.

    Retail Sales

    Up by 0.5% volume and 1.3% value on a yearly basis but down when comparing April 2013 with March 2013.

    Almost wholly due to food sales falling and in line with Visa Consumer Expenditure Index and British Retail Consortium figures earlier this month.

    Retailers have pointed out that this is mainly due to adverse weather conditions (April had the cold weather this year, March last) and, more importantly, the Easter weekend fell in March this year and April last accounting for the shift in food purchasing patterns.

    Apart from food and weather related sales, all other categories of purchase were in line with expectations and consistent with the underlying picture of a general economic recovery gathering momentum.

    Dance, Ben, dance and rejoice at this news.
  • Options
    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Incidentally, when assessing government competence, you need to look at what is NOT in the news as much as what is.

    The non-existent story of the month is the Great Real Time Tax Reporting Shambles.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Cameron on R4 - tune in at 2hrs 10mins in http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01sj1wl
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
    If Mr Cameron stopped reading the Guardian - a lot of soft-right voters like me would vote for him.

    Until he does, we're NOTA or Kipper voters judging by the polls. I like him as a chap a lot, but he's just not even in the same chapter as me, nevermind the page.
    I think you are getting distracted by the noise.

    At the end of the day, look at what he is trying to do. Even if he only makes good progress on these issues rather than solving them we'll be a better country for it:

    - Economy: rebalancing towards the private sector, reducing the deficit
    - Welfare: trying to break the dependency model
    - Education: giving kids from less advantaged background the chance for a great education
    - Europe: giving the people a say (albeit delayed)
    - Social issues: helping demonstrate Britain is a more tolerant society

    For a soft-right voter, really, what's there not to like?
    Sorry but no. Civil liberties, red-tape, nannying attempts et al aren't *noise* - they matter to me a great deal - and Cameron came to be PM because voters like me believed he was on the same page.

    And he's demonstrated that he's not by his own actions. Minimum alcohol pricing? FFS. That was the final straw on top of stuff like sugar or fat taxes.
    Haven't minimum alchol pricing and plain packaging for tobacco been effectively dropped though? And there are no fat taxes or sugar taxes. What happens is some junior minister makes a daft speech and the Daily Mail gets all excited - these things don't actually make it into law in most cases.
    And you are entirely missing my point here. If Mr Cameron had his way - we'd have all of them. It's his modus operandi - if the courts or EU hadn't told him to bugger off, we'd be travelling down this path with his blessing.

    I voted for less, not more of being told what to do - and the LDs are even worse for sticking their oar into my life. No wonder so many like me are polling Kipper or NOTA - dismissing our concerns isn't working for any of the Big Three. We want less Government, not more.
    No, he's dropped them because they're are superficially appealing (and it makes sense to look at different ideas) but ultimately they didn't work.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Pork, that's a good explanation for an otherwise bonkers move, but there's an underlying and false assumption which means it's still crackers.

    Not everyone has an internet connection. I know that most people in developed countries have an at least patchy connection, but even in the US huge numbers of people still have dial-up. In less developed countries the numbers will be even worse. Downloading games would take too long to be practical in such situations, and if there are no physical copies to use (in the future) then the games industry (and AAA titles are already costing so much to make millions of sales still yield a loss) will be reducing its pool of consumers.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    stodge said:

    MikeK said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    To be fair, Nick Clegg has been entirely consistent about this since May 2010 - the Coalition is for a full five years and that's how it's going to be. One can almost hear the palpable groans from the UKIP-inclined as their moment starts to slip away from them.

    It is, as always, "the economy, stupid" and many voters will forgive almost anything if there is a feeling about that on a personal level their financial situation is improving. If the Conservative backbenchers want to end the Coalition, they're going to have to grow a pair and stab the Prime Minister in the back and in the front at the same time. Clegg's speech makes it clear that they're going to have to do their own dirty work and frankly I doubt any of them have the stomach for it.

    The coalition is one of the reasons for UKIP's rise, (not the only one of course). The more these ill sorted sides stick together, the greater the frustration of the tory rank and file and the L/dem conference. The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker. There is no doubt that he and Clegg will use the parliamentary recess to expound all sorts of lovlies for the public and the future, without back-bench interference and with the cooperation of tame journalists.

    Meanwhile another 20 months or so will be the time needed for UKIP to consolidate and then grow as a party and organisation. No Mr Stodge, the moment will not slip away for UKIP, 2014 will bring the EU elections and further big changes.
    A shedload of wishful thinking, my friend. UKIP will of course do very well next year just as they did in 2009 and 2004 (for all the good it did them at the subsequent GE). The 30% or so who turned out at the start of the month and will turn out next June will ensure UKIP gets a good result and plenty of publicity.

    The problem is all the other voters who will turn out on May 7th 2015 and what they will do after three or four weeks of being told what a vote for UKIP will really mean (as distinct from what Nigel Farage will say) which is a Labour Government and an even stronger commitment to Europe and the likelihood of neither re-negotiation nor a referendum. Once that has been drummed into the electorate, most of the party's current support which is, as with most midterm protest votes, a mile wide and an inch deep, will either run back whence it came or simply stay at home.

    Yes, I can see UKIP polling 5% and they might even win a seat or two with luck but the idea of breaking any kind of mould isn't going to happen and as you and I watch Ed Miliband return to Downing Street from Buckingham Palace on the afternoon of Friday May 8th 2015, we can reflect on the fact that both our parties will be spending the next five years as irrelevancies on the political margins and derive such comfort as we can from that.

    Who's doing the wishful thinking now, Stodgey?

  • Options
    samsam Posts: 727
    edited May 2013
    MikeK said:

    Charles said:

    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
    No! Cameron had a clear run on R4 this morning with Naughty in interruptus nonus mode.
    Doormats couldn't be more tamer that Naughty this morning. I bet if Farrage was being interviewed by him, Naughty would come out as a roaring lion.

    Exactly.

    Farage was interviewed by Jeremy Vine (who I quite like) yesterday and the "questions" were, more or less, a controversial quote from a UKIP councillor followed by "What have you got to say about that?"

    Farage handled it well actually

    The previous time he was was interviewed on the BBC was the scottish nonsense (the one that derailed the rise of UKIP....)

    Yet everyone is saying UKIP get a free ride from the media?!
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,207

    BenM said:

    Yay to a new Thames crossing!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22607847

    Option B or C please.

    Option A should really be a non-starter for a whole host of reasons.

    Although it's probably more costly, I'd got for option C, heading across the Thames between Gravesend and the ruins of Shornmead fort. This opens up more areas for development both north and south of the Thames, and provides a much more logical route for people travelling from the A1 to Dover.

    For those wanting to see the options, there is a map at:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/200489/map-of-options.pdf
    I really wish Boris hadn't cancelled the Thames Gateway Crossing between Beckton and Thamesmead. Means using the Woolwich Ferry!

    Yes, I thought that was a mistake at the time; I know nothing about the financials of it, but there is a dramatic need for a road crossing east of Dartford. Why did he cancel it? Was it just financial, or where there other reasons?
    Well according to Wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Gateway_Bridge

    The reasons cited for cancellation included local opposition, insufficient funding, projected detrimental effects on traffic flow, and concerns over the bridge's location and environmental impact.

    But it also says:

    Despite having abandoned the bridge the previous year, saying he favoured a tunnel crossing at Silvertown, Johnson resurrected the project, renamed Gallions Reach, as a lower capacity crossing that could start as a ferry service, but which could be upgraded to a fixed link later.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    tim said:

    "A&E Crisis" seems to have appeared on the grid

    It's been on the grid for as long as I can remember.

    Labour's messing up of GP contracts didn't help, of course.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
    If Mr Cameron stopped reading the Guardian - a lot of soft-right voters like me would vote for him.

    Until he does, we're NOTA or Kipper voters judging by the polls. I like him as a chap a lot, but he's just not even in the same chapter as me, nevermind the page.
    I think you are getting distracted by the noise.

    At the end of the day, look at what he is trying to do. Even if he only makes good progress on these issues rather than solving them we'll be a better country for it:

    - Economy: rebalancing towards the private sector, reducing the deficit
    - Welfare: trying to break the dependency model
    - Education: giving kids from less advantaged background the chance for a great education
    - Europe: giving the people a say (albeit delayed)
    - Social issues: helping demonstrate Britain is a more tolerant society

    For a soft-right voter, really, what's there not to like?
    Sorry but no. Civil liberties, red-tape, nannying attempts et al aren't *noise* - they matter to me a great deal - and Cameron came to be PM because voters like me believed he was on the same page.

    And he's demonstrated that he's not by his own actions. Minimum alcohol pricing? FFS. That was the final straw on top of stuff like sugar or fat taxes.
    Haven't minimum alchol pricing and plain packaging for tobacco been effectively dropped though? And there are no fat taxes or sugar taxes. What happens is some junior minister makes a daft speech and the Daily Mail gets all excited - these things don't actually make it into law in most cases.
    And you are entirely missing my point here. If Mr Cameron had his way - we'd have all of them. It's his modus operandi - if the courts or EU hadn't told him to bugger off, we'd be travelling down this path with his blessing.

    I voted for less, not more of being told what to do - and the LDs are even worse for sticking their oar into my life. No wonder so many like me are polling Kipper or NOTA - dismissing our concerns isn't working for any of the Big Three. We want less Government, not more.
    No, he's dropped them because they're are superficially appealing (and it makes sense to look at different ideas) but ultimately they didn't work.
    Piffle - he was dead keen on minimum alcohol pricing and it was only knocked back by the EU - its still official Tory policy

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10013550/Anna-Soubry-Minimum-alcohol-pricing-is-still-Government-policy.html

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    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    @GloucesterOldSpot

    I see Tim has done the work for me.

    The ONS borrowing document is almost impenetrable which is why I'd held off posting about April month's figures.

    As for a single quarter's growth - in a recovery that should be sailing closer to 1.0% not sloshing around the bottom at 0.3%. Nothing to crow about there either.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    edited May 2013
    "Yes, I can see UKIP polling 5% and they might even win a seat or two with luck"

    If UKIP poll 5% they are winning zero seats. (Even up to 15%) 20%+ and they take 2+. 15 - 20 probably 1 but depends on their voting variance.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Sunil I'm going on 28 May. My other half has had to change his arrangements, so he's having to go back to northern Ireland that day, so I have a ticket that is surplus to requirements. I'm currently trying to find a friend who might be interested in going with me. The concept of lawyers having friends is, I know, stretching.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited May 2013
    Pulpstar said:

    "Yes, I can see UKIP polling 5% and they might even win a seat or two with luck"

    If UKIP poll 5% they are winning zero seats. (Even up to 15%) 20%+ and they take 2+. 15 - 20 probably 1 but depends on their voting variance.

    23% national projection at the May elections produced 10 seats where UKIP would have won the seat. And that was just in the area contested.

    http://survation.com/2013/05/ukip-won-in-8-westminster-constituencies-last-thursday/
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    BenM said:

    Bad retail figures.

    Borrowing for 2012-13 revised down a smidge but nothing to crow about.

    (April had the cold weather this year, March last)
    March had very hot weather in 2012. I think you are confused.
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    tim said:

    @GloucesterOS

    Hugh Pym ‏@BBCHughPym
    But April borrowing not so good for Chancellor - £10.2 billion, up £1.3 bill fro preivous year, excl Royal Mail and B of E transfers

    Oh dear, tim. The poor Beeboids never get it right.

    I quoted the relevant figures directly from the ONS bulletin so refer downthread to the right figures.

    The figure Hugh Pym is referring to is contained in the following paragraph. He clearly got so excited by the thought of borrowing increasing that he forgot to read to the end.

    After removing the impacts of the transfer relating to the BEAPFF, public sector net borrowing in April 2013 was £10.2 billion; this is £1.3 billion higher net borrowing than the figure in April 2012 with the impacts of the Royal Mail pension transfer removed. However, also removing the effect of the SLS transfer from April 2012 results in April 2013 being £1.0 billion lower than in April 2012.

    The problem he faced is that two of the non-recurring Treasury cash receipts (Royal Mail pension assets transfer and SLS wind down) occurred during April 2012, which then recorded a £19.5 billion surplus for the month as a result. All of these need stripping out from both sets of monthly figures to get to the underlying reduction in borrowing.

    Poor Hugh. He may get it right next time. I live in hope.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    But Dan Hodges was impressed by Dave, as you'd expect.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100218086/david-cameron-has-shown-why-he-will-fight-the-next-election-as-tory-leader-and-why-he-will-probably-win/
    MikeK said:

    Charles said:

    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
    No! Cameron had a clear run on R4 this morning with Naughty in interruptus nonus mode.
    Doormats couldn't be more tamer that Naughty this morning. I bet if Farrage was being interviewed by him, Naughty would come out as a roaring lion.

  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @tim Jimmy Carr now uses his experience of being singled out as a tax dodger as part of his routine. He's very funny on the subject, now that a little time has passed.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    @GloucesterOS

    Hugh Pym ‏@BBCHughPym
    But April borrowing not so good for Chancellor - £10.2 billion, up £1.3 bill fro preivous year, excl Royal Mail and B of E transfers

    Hugh Pym selectivity using Labours figures ?

    Not including SLS in the figures - why not leave out VAT receipts too ?


    Don't panic tim the IMF report will be out soon slagging off the Uk economy - we shoukd look to more sucsessful European economies like Narnia or Liliput.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    But Dan Hodges was impressed by Dave, as you'd expect.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100218086/david-cameron-has-shown-why-he-will-fight-the-next-election-as-tory-leader-and-why-he-will-probably-win/

    MikeK said:

    Charles said:

    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
    No! Cameron had a clear run on R4 this morning with Naughty in interruptus nonus mode.
    Doormats couldn't be more tamer that Naughty this morning. I bet if Farrage was being interviewed by him, Naughty would come out as a roaring lion.

    Why Clegg's speech was bad news for Ed Miliband his next piece ?
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Brendan O'Neill makes a very uncomfortable point

    "In essence, gay marriage has redefined “social progress” to mean imposing an elite block on tyrannical public passions, to mean having the right-minded rulers of society keep in check the wrongheadedness of society’s inhabitants. This echoes the social engineering disguised as social progress that was promoted by Fabian types in the early 20th century far more than it does the true social progress pursued by the Suffragettes or Rosa Parks. It is not social progress at all, really – it is social demarcation, a way for the great and the good to distinguish themselves from the thick and the old..." http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100218031/congratulations-gay-marriage-campaigners-you-have-completely-destroyed-the-meaning-of-social-progress/
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    tim said:

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn
    Clegg says Dave must return to serious business of governing - and then scores a cheap hit on him by saying he challenged Google on tax.

    Can't imagine Dave liked that very much, he only singles out comedians for individual comment.

    Problem is Ed Miliband isn't that good a comedian.
  • Options

    BenM said:

    Bad retail figures.

    Borrowing for 2012-13 revised down a smidge but nothing to crow about.

    (April had the cold weather this year, March last)
    March had very hot weather in 2012. I think you are confused.
    Not so much confused as not making the point clearly.

    What the retailers are wittering on about is that consumers deferred certain types of spring sales (they give BBQ equipment and spring clothes as examples) from April this year due to the cold weather whereas - as you point out - last year many of these purchases were brought forward to March due to the clemency of the gods.

    I am never entirely convinced by these types of explanation but the credibility of this story this time is at least enhanced by the ONS, Visa and the BRC all singing the same song.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013

    Not everyone has an internet connection. I know that most people in developed countries have an at least patchy connection, but even in the US huge numbers of people still have dial-up. In less developed countries the numbers will be even worse. Downloading games would take too long to be practical in such situations, and if there are no physical copies to use (in the future) then the games industry (and AAA titles are already costing so much to make millions of sales still yield a loss) will be reducing its pool of consumers.

    Someone at Microsoft was fired by making some crass twitter statements to the effect that almost everyone had an online connection already and those who didn't didn't matter. (his actual words were far worse) It tells you something about the underlying assumptions of some in console business.

    I entirely agree that they would be locking themselves out of a great many consumers by ignoring the patchy levels of internet service IF they were to try to move instantly to digital only publishing and always on for their consoles. They aren't though. The PS4 and xbox one is the generation that will bridge the gap and see the big shift in emphasis. The always on and system updates will be reduced to that which a low(ish) quality connection can handle periodically while those publishers who take the risk of making their games always on have the example of Sim City to caution them.

    There is also the existing model whereby games get discounted at retail after time to a lower price point by shifting them to a 'value' range with game of the year editions etc. That will increase, particularly if rental or second hand is curbed.

    The sheer size of AAA games will stop all but the fastest connections at the moment but the console makers are relying on an ever increasing roll out of fiber and other internet infrastructure improvements in the next 5-10 years to push their greater emphasis on digital only publishing. The developers and publishers will be more than happy to eventually cut out the retail shipping physical and materials costs but they won't be doing so for a while. They are also going big on DLC and other profitable game additions that digital retail provides in the meantime.

    The other thing to remember is that both Sony and Microsoft are including a huge amount of console features for their new online services for the PS4 and xbox one because they have made a massive amount of money from them in subscriptions and other digital retail partnerships and opportunities. Not everyone can take advantage of those at the moment either if they have a less than satisfactory internet connection, but more than enough do so to make such a focus very profitable.

    The most astute move would be to limit the need for a fast connection as much as they can while maximising the opportunities available to those who do enjoy a decent or very good connection. I would expect that to be the model which both companies follow. They will then gradually shift the focus more and more to digital over time as infrastructure hopefully improves.

    PC games are growing ever more profitable and flourishing by following the Steam based model. The death of rental need not be a severe blow as long as both companies have an aggressive new pricing model to facilitate it rather than crassly trying to force gamers into it.

    It's also far from a certainty either company are going to try and kill rental and used games yet anyway. Rumour and supposition are merely filling the gap in information right now.


  • Options
    GloucesterOldSpotGloucesterOldSpot Posts: 50
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    @GloucesterOS

    Hugh Pym ‏@BBCHughPym
    But April borrowing not so good for Chancellor - £10.2 billion, up £1.3 bill fro preivous year, excl Royal Mail and B of E transfers

    Hugh Pym selectivity using Labours figures ?

    Not including SLS in the figures - why not leave out VAT receipts too ?


    Don't panic tim the IMF report will be out soon slagging off the Uk economy - we shoukd look to more sucsessful European economies like Narnia or Liliput.

    Osborne has to include the Special Liquidity Scheme in the figures or the deficit for 2012/3 is higher than it was for the previous year.

    Ed Conway ‏@EdConwaySky
    On one measure of borrowing - deficit excluding SLS - Osborne still borrowed more last year than the previous one http://bit.ly/13HprF6
    Conway is at least correct even though by selection he is being as disingenous as the Beeboids. Pym erred, Conway dissembled.

    Both the SLS and the Royal Mail Pension transactions need stripping out to get a like for like comparison.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Plato Gay marriage has majority support. So Brendan O'Neill is talking rubbish. The thick and the old have to accept the wishes of the majority, just like the rest of us do from time to time.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Yoi either strip out everything or nothing. Selective fact bending.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,822
    MikeK said:

    stodge said:

    MikeK said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    To be fair, Nick Clegg has been entirely consistent about this since May 2010 - the Coalition is for a full five years and that's how it's going to be. One can almost hear the palpable groans from the UKIP-inclined as their moment starts to slip away from them.

    It is, as always, "the economy, stupid" and many voters will forgive almost anything if there is a feeling about that on a personal level their financial situation is improving. If the Conservative backbenchers want to end the Coalition, they're going to have to grow a pair and stab the Prime Minister in the back and in the front at the same time. Clegg's speech makes it clear that they're going to have to do their own dirty work and frankly I doubt any of them have the stomach for it.

    The coalition is one of the reasons for UKIP's rise, (not the only one of course). The more these ill sorted sides stick together, the greater the frustration of the tory rank and file and the L/dem conference. The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker. There is no doubt that he and Clegg will use the parliamentary recess to expound all sorts of lovlies for the public and the future, without back-bench interference and with the cooperation of tame journalists.

    Meanwhile another 20 months or so will be the time needed for UKIP to consolidate and then grow as a party and organisation. No Mr Stodge, the moment will not slip away for UKIP, 2014 will bring the EU elections and further big changes.
    A shedload of wishful thinking, my friend. UKIP will of course do very well next year just as they did in 2009 and 2004 (for all the good it did them at the subsequent GE). The 30% or so who turned out at the start of the month and will turn out next June will ensure UKIP gets a good result and plenty of publicity.

    The problem is all the other voters who will turn out on May 7th 2015 and what they will do after three or four weeks of being told what a vote for UKIP will really mean (as distinct from what Nigel Farage will say) which is a Labour Government and an even stronger commitment to Europe and the likelihood of neither re-negotiation nor a referendum. Once that has been drummed into the electorate, most of the party's current support which is, as with most midterm protest votes, a mile wide and an inch deep, will either run back whence it came or simply stay at home.

    Yes, I can see UKIP polling 5% and they might even win a seat or two with luck but the idea of breaking any kind of mould isn't going to happen and as you and I watch Ed Miliband return to Downing Street from Buckingham Palace on the afternoon of Friday May 8th 2015, we can reflect on the fact that both our parties will be spending the next five years as irrelevancies on the political margins and derive such comfort as we can from that.

    Who's doing the wishful thinking now, Stodgey?

    So you're not going to try and argue that I might have a point and that the current high poll figures for UKIP might not be sustainable. I think you will do well in some areas and you made the not unreasonable point that UKIP's organisation is superior to what has been in the past which I happily concede so my point that 5% might win you a couple of seats isn't entirely invalid.

    The fact remains that for all the current hype and hysteria and the turmoil it has produced on the Conservative side (most of it manifesting pre-existing inner tensions), we simply don't know how the UKIP vote will stand the sustained assault of a general election campaign and the message that the Conservative campaign will produce ad nauseam which, as you and everyone alse on here knows, will be "Vote UKIP get Labour" or you could have "A UKIP vote is a wasted vote". UKIP will have to stand and fight that in a way it hasn't had to thus far.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Plato said:

    Question for @MarqueeMark re actors

    The more US tv I see, the smaller the pool of regular actors appears - I used to see maybe a handful of regulars, now its almost every series with at least one familiar face.

    It gone further than simply the genre, timeframe or network I'm watching - its everywhere. is it my imagination or have casting decisions been concentrated in fewer hands these days?

    @Plato:

    I tend to agree - but I will ask for you to see if your impression is right. Have a private meeting set up with Miss Cameron D in the next month (her request) and will find out.

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    Plato said:

    Charles said:

    MikeK said:

    The fact that Cammo appeared reasonable on Radio 4 today, only proves that on occasion he comes through as a good speaker.

    Do you think that an alternative interpretation might be that he *is* reasonable?
    If Mr Cameron stopped reading the Guardian - a lot of soft-right voters like me would vote for him.

    Until he does, we're NOTA or Kipper voters judging by the polls. I like him as a chap a lot, but he's just not even in the same chapter as me, nevermind the page.
    I think you are getting distracted by the noise.

    At the end of the day, look at what he is trying to do. Even if he only makes good progress on these issues rather than solving them we'll be a better country for it:

    - Economy: rebalancing towards the private sector, reducing the deficit
    - Welfare: trying to break the dependency model
    - Education: giving kids from less advantaged background the chance for a great education
    - Europe: giving the people a say (albeit delayed)
    - Social issues: helping demonstrate Britain is a more tolerant society

    For a soft-right voter, really, what's there not to like?
    Sorry but no. Civil liberties, red-tape, nannying attempts et al aren't *noise* - they matter to me a great deal - and Cameron came to be PM because voters like me believed he was on the same page.

    And he's demonstrated that he's not by his own actions. Minimum alcohol pricing? FFS. That was the final straw on top of stuff like sugar or fat taxes.
    Haven't minimum alchol pricing and plain packaging for tobacco been effectively dropped though? And there are no fat taxes or sugar taxes. What happens is some junior minister makes a daft speech and the Daily Mail gets all excited - these things don't actually make it into law in most cases.
    And you are entirely missing my point here. If Mr Cameron had his way - we'd have all of them. It's his modus operandi - if the courts or EU hadn't told him to bugger off, we'd be travelling down this path with his blessing.

    I voted for less, not more of being told what to do - and the LDs are even worse for sticking their oar into my life. No wonder so many like me are polling Kipper or NOTA - dismissing our concerns isn't working for any of the Big Three. We want less Government, not more.
    No, he's dropped them because they're are superficially appealing (and it makes sense to look at different ideas) but ultimately they didn't work.
    Piffle - he was dead keen on minimum alcohol pricing and it was only knocked back by the EU - its still official Tory policy

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10013550/Anna-Soubry-Minimum-alcohol-pricing-is-still-Government-policy.html

    That article doesn't make sense.

    The policy was dropped due to opposition from the Home Secretary, a judgement by someone (presuably different?) at a senior level saying that the political cost was too high. It may be "official policy" (whatever that means) but it isn't going to happen
This discussion has been closed.