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  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    If Demechillis starts tonight then 9/4 is a good price for him to be shown a card, however I will take a different route and buy his card minutes at 18.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited August 2014
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Roger said:

    Nigella

    "Because he hates them."

    That makes at least two of us.

    Perhaps he thinks they're morons led by a vulgarian bigot.......

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bypLwI5AQvY



    I have never heard a skinhead in any decade use the phrase "vulgarian bigot"!

    Ha! Yeah often the sensitive softies are so pathetic they cant stay in character for more than a sentence or two without reverting to type!
    Lol, "Softies"?!

    Kind of people who visit farmers markets I guess.
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Roger said:

    Nigella

    "Because he hates them."

    That makes at least two of us.

    Perhaps he thinks they're morons led by a vulgarian bigot.......

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bypLwI5AQvY

    Resorting to personal abuse is always a sign of immense weakness. Interesting you should choose to insult your opponents using a disused psychological term describing those with a mental age of 8-12 too -a very un-bigoted choice may I say.

    Ukip haters seem to act/argue in the way they expect of Ukip supporters.. the results are quite pitiful

    You end up with effete Walter the softy types doing pathetic impersonations of 70s racist skinhead thugs...

    (From the safety of their keyboards)

    I have never heard a skinhead in any decade use the phrase "vulgarian bigot"!

    Ha! Yeah often the sensitive softies are so pathetic they cant stay in character for more than a sentence or two without reverting to type!
    Lol, "Softies"?!

    Kind of people who visit farmers markets I guess.
    Probably
    The kind of effette posh City boy who wouldn't be seen dead in a pub unless it was for publicity to show how ordinary he was for liking a "a pint and fag" (and even then it's usually one of those posh gastro places that serve food on wooden boards not plates)?
    Yeah I've always thought Farage didn't really like pubs, all a big put on... What a joker

    Probably doesn't really smoke either, like Harold Wilson and his pipes
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    edited August 2014
    As I understand it the "English" (in fact Welsh) archers fired off their arrows row by row, so that while one lot were reloading another lot were taking aim and the third were firing. or something like that.
    Procedure was later adapted for musketry; fire, prime, reload, fire so that fire was constant.
    Result, in archery days, was that it was dangerous to look up since metal tipped arrows were constantly raining down.

    Kept the fletchers busy of course.

    All down to a 12th C manager thinking it through!
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @isam
    Wilson smoked, but it was cigars. Which would have ruined his image amongst the minions.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    @isam - final thought - is there ever a politician who didn't 'put things on' (not said to defend Farage, because I dislike the man). Baldwin used to practice the angle at which his pipe projected in front of the mirror. Wilson smoked cigars - an aide always had a filled pipe ready for whenever a press photographer showed up. Miliband claims he is from a normal background, even though as the son of a university lecturer who grew up in leafy Islington and went to a series of rather exclusive state schools (officially 'comprehensives' - we had one like that in Gloucestershire when I was growing up, and it was and remains a snobbish joke) his experience is about as remote from that of the child of a single parent on a council estate in Stoke, or indeed mine as the son of a farm labourer from Gloucestershire, as it is possible to get. As for Cameron and his famous bike, followed discreetly by a car carrying his ironed shirt...

    They all spin themselves. What's more depressing is that we all (including me) fall for it every time.

    And with that, I must leave you. Nos da i gyd, and I hope you enjoy what little is left of this very damp Bank Holiday.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    ydoethur said:

    @Sean_F‌

    There's far worse out there, among historical novelists. How about a sex scene involving Anne of Cleves, Katherine Howard, and a pot of honey? (The Tudor Wife, by Emily Purdy).
    Please tell me it's a spoof novel...please...

    Not that that will help with the very strange image I now have in my head!

    Would that it were.

    Emily Purdy couldn't find a publisher for this piece of dreck, so she self-published......and it was a runaway best seller.

    After their night of passion, Katherine and Anne stagger out of bed, "reeking of honey, sweat, and sex". Katherine crows "I've done what Henry couldn't. I've ridden the Flanders Mare.". Anne replies "Ja, mein libchien. Und it vos ze best ride off my life."
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Sean_F
    Did it win the "bad sex" literary award that year?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    @Sean_F‌ - that's truly frightening. I shall watch with alarm to see if that comes up when I am teaching the Tudors again. If Year 8 start talking about lesbian orgies among Henry's wives, then I shall start to have fond memories of Margaret Beaufort the psychopath!
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Is it any wonder politicians spin for themselves when you see how they are attacked for whatever the opposing party deems appropriate
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,612
    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Sean_F‌

    There's far worse out there, among historical novelists. How about a sex scene involving Anne of Cleves, Katherine Howard, and a pot of honey? (The Tudor Wife, by Emily Purdy).
    Please tell me it's a spoof novel...please...

    Not that that will help with the very strange image I now have in my head!
    Would that it were.

    Emily Purdy couldn't find a publisher for this piece of dreck, so she self-published......and it was a runaway best seller.

    After their night of passion, Katherine and Anne stagger out of bed, "reeking of honey, sweat, and sex". Katherine crows "I've done what Henry couldn't. I've ridden the Flanders Mare.". Anne replies "Ja, mein libchien. Und it vos ze best ride off my life."

    You owe me a laptop. My tea exploded from my mouth, drenching the keyboard. Is that genuinely from the book?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Hugh said:

    The kind of effette posh City boy who wouldn't be seen dead in a pub unless it was for publicity to show how ordinary he was for liking a "a pint and fag" (and even then it's usually one of those posh gastro places that serve food on wooden boards not plates)?

    When I used to work there, the pubs were full of posh City boys. No idea if one of them went on to run UKIP.

    OT: the demise of lunchtime drinking is a sociology PhD waiting to happen.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    ydoethur said:

    @Hugh, interpretations are undoubtedly part of history (it's called 'historiography', if you're interested) to the extent that one former colleague of mine complained history isn't made, it's written. But interpretations must be based on facts if they are to have any validity. And I say again there are people out there who play fast and loose with them. When I mentioned Gregory, I was thinking particularly of the Princes in the Tower. Among historians, the debate is over and has been for thirty years. The evidence all points to Richard having murdered them. He controlled access to them, he had the best possible reason to kill them, and he never said what had happened to them even though his men had been in charge of the Tower when they disappeared and would have undoubtedly known the truth, and relayed it to him. But Gregory picked Margaret Beaufort as the culprit. Let me run through her reasons:

    1) Beaufort's motive was that her son was 'next in line' (false: at least a dozen people, Yorkist and Lancastrian, stood between him and the crown)

    2) Beaufort's husband may have had access to the Tower over Richard's head (false: access was by personal authorisation from Richard)

    3) Beaufort was a compulsive schemer (entirely true, but there is no evidence that she was anything more than that - in fact, she seems to have been quite squeamish about killing, more so than her son)

    4) Elizabeth Woodville would never have come to an arrangement with a man who had murdered her sons (an understandable position, but since Richard had already very publicly murdered her second son, Richard Grey, patently not the case)

    5) Richard, as he only had one son, would have needed the Princes in case he needed spare heirs (ridiculous - he could not have made them his heirs without admitting their parents' marriage was valid, which would make Edward V the rightful king and Richard guilty of high treason)

    6) Richard was an honourable and honest man who loved his nephews and would never have hurt them (possibly true in the second of those three parts, but Richard actually had quite a reputation for brutality - his behaviour towards the Countess of Oxford, whom he kidnapped and threatened to murder if she did not forfeit her lands to him springs to mind, and he was clearly a pragmatist who would do what it took to keep what he held - murder included).

    o.

    For centuries, Richard III was portrayed as a diabolical character. Now, it seems the popular view is that he was almost a saint.

    Opinion on Edward II's Queen, Isabella, has shifted the same way, largely due to romantic novels.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Looks like Sep or oct to me!

    Matthew Goodwin (@GoodwinMJ)
    25/08/2014 19:15
    Where's the crash? Ukip in Polling Observatory:

    Aug=13.3%
    Jul=14.1
    Jun=14.9
    May=14.1
    Apr=12.1
    Mar=12.7
    Feb=11.8
    Jan=12.1
    Dec=11.9
    Nov=11.3
  • ydoethur said:

    @isam - final thought - is there ever a politician who didn't 'put things on' (not said to defend Farage, because I dislike the man). Baldwin used to practice the angle at which his pipe projected in front of the mirror. Wilson smoked cigars - an aide always had a filled pipe ready for whenever a press photographer showed up. Miliband claims he is from a normal background, even though as the son of a university lecturer who grew up in leafy Islington and went to a series of rather exclusive state schools (officially 'comprehensives' - we had one like that in Gloucestershire when I was growing up, and it was and remains a snobbish joke) his experience is about as remote from that of the child of a single parent on a council estate in Stoke, or indeed mine as the son of a farm labourer from Gloucestershire, as it is possible to get. As for Cameron and his famous bike, followed discreetly by a car carrying his ironed shirt...

    They all spin themselves. What's more depressing is that we all (including me) fall for it every time.

    And with that, I must leave you. Nos da i gyd, and I hope you enjoy what little is left of this very damp Bank Holiday.

    Miliband grew up in Camden and if you had seen Haverstock and the area from which it gets its intake you would never describe it as "exclusive".

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,815
    Roger said:

    LuckyGuy.

    "Resorting to personal abuse is always a sign of immense weakness".

    Were you talking about me or Farage?

    We were both guilty of personal abuse and in neither case did it show weakness as it happens

    Farage was commenting on a political appointment. It would have been bizarre if he hadn't commented on the appointee, negatively or positively. You were commenting on antipathy toward a political movement, supporting it on the basis that UKIPs followers were mentally subnormal. You did this using archaic not to mention highly vulgar term. To me, this demonstrates not only a thudding lack of irony, but also lack of a decent argument. Hence weakness.
  • Smarmeron said:

    @isam
    Wilson smoked, but it was cigars. Which would have ruined his image amongst the minions.

    But a Castella is as big as a pint, alright.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Gadzooks! Brighton Labour Party Branch suspended. Looks like skulduggery to me.
    http://brightonandhoveindependent.co.uk/exclusive-insult-democracy-labour-party-suspends-local-branch-party/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,612

    ydoethur said:

    @isam - final thought - is there ever a politician who didn't 'put things on' (not said to defend Farage, because I dislike the man). Baldwin used to practice the angle at which his pipe projected in front of the mirror. Wilson smoked cigars - an aide always had a filled pipe ready for whenever a press photographer showed up. Miliband claims he is from a normal background, even though as the son of a university lecturer who grew up in leafy Islington and went to a series of rather exclusive state schools (officially 'comprehensives' - we had one like that in Gloucestershire when I was growing up, and it was and remains a snobbish joke) his experience is about as remote from that of the child of a single parent on a council estate in Stoke, or indeed mine as the son of a farm labourer from Gloucestershire, as it is possible to get. As for Cameron and his famous bike, followed discreetly by a car carrying his ironed shirt...

    They all spin themselves. What's more depressing is that we all (including me) fall for it every time.

    And with that, I must leave you. Nos da i gyd, and I hope you enjoy what little is left of this very damp Bank Holiday.

    Miliband grew up in Camden and if you had seen Haverstock and the area from which it gets its intake you would never describe it as "exclusive".

    The academic results from that part of the world were very poor until recently
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    ydoethur said:

    @isam - final thought - is there ever a politician who didn't 'put things on' (not said to defend Farage, because I dislike the man). Baldwin used to practice the angle at which his pipe projected in front of the mirror. Wilson smoked cigars - an aide always had a filled pipe ready for whenever a press photographer showed up. Miliband claims he is from a normal background, even though as the son of a university lecturer who grew up in leafy Islington and went to a series of rather exclusive state schools (officially 'comprehensives' - we had one like that in Gloucestershire when I was growing up, and it was and remains a snobbish joke) his experience is about as remote from that of the child of a single parent on a council estate in Stoke, or indeed mine as the son of a farm labourer from Gloucestershire, as it is possible to get. As for Cameron and his famous bike, followed discreetly by a car carrying his ironed shirt...

    They all spin themselves. What's more depressing is that we all (including me) fall for it every time.

    And with that, I must leave you. Nos da i gyd, and I hope you enjoy what little is left of this very damp Bank Holiday.

    Miliband grew up in Camden and if you had seen Haverstock and the area from which it gets its intake you would never describe it as "exclusive".

    I used to live near Haverstock and it's absolutely beautiful there
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Sean_F‌

    There's far worse out there, among historical novelists. How about a sex scene involving Anne of Cleves, Katherine Howard, and a pot of honey? (The Tudor Wife, by Emily Purdy).
    Please tell me it's a spoof novel...please...

    Not that that will help with the very strange image I now have in my head!
    Would that it were.

    Emily Purdy couldn't find a publisher for this piece of dreck, so she self-published......and it was a runaway best seller.

    After their night of passion, Katherine and Anne stagger out of bed, "reeking of honey, sweat, and sex". Katherine crows "I've done what Henry couldn't. I've ridden the Flanders Mare.". Anne replies "Ja, mein libchien. Und it vos ze best ride off my life."
    You owe me a laptop. My tea exploded from my mouth, drenching the keyboard. Is that genuinely from the book?

    Truly, it is. It's so bad it's good.
  • ydoethur said:

    @You see my point? Gregory speculates, but the 'facts' she speculates from are wrong, and that annoys me greatly as an historian and has caused many upsets - even tears - in my classroom when I'm teaching, because her fans struggle to understand that she has lied to them.

    I don't want to get all Thomas Gradgrind about this, but I do believe facts are important and that monkeying with them is dangerous - and that when we can get minor details right, we should make every effort to do so.

    No, the debate has not been over for 30 years. There are still quite a number of theories out there.

    1) Richard did indeed have access to the Tower, but so did the Duke of Buckingham, who was Constable of England and would certainly have had the right of access to the Tower. The Princes were not seen after Buckingham's rebellion. The Duke of Buckingham had a pretty good claim to the English throne through Edward III and Thomas of Woodstock. A better claim than Henry Tudor...

    2) The Princes had already been deposed and Richard had assumed the throne of England. Why then murder them?

    3) Why did Henry Tudor not accuse Richard of doing the deed? He accused him of much else, but never that.

    4) The Constable of the Tower, Sir Robert Brackenbury, by Tudor sources refused to allow the murder of the Princes. "to die therefore". Why then, if Richard did the deed, did Sir Robert gallop north to Bosworth and was killed at Richard's side in the last charge against Tudor. Why did he die to support a tyrant and usurper?

    5) In short, there are still many theories extant. Perhaps Richard did the deed, but so could (some) others and we will probably never know the truth.
  • isam said:

    ydoethur said:

    @isam - final thought - is there ever a politician who didn't 'put things on' (not said to defend Farage, because I dislike the man). Baldwin used to practice the angle at which his pipe projected in front of the mirror. Wilson smoked cigars - an aide always had a filled pipe ready for whenever a press photographer showed up. Miliband claims he is from a normal background, even though as the son of a university lecturer who grew up in leafy Islington and went to a series of rather exclusive state schools (officially 'comprehensives' - we had one like that in Gloucestershire when I was growing up, and it was and remains a snobbish joke) his experience is about as remote from that of the child of a single parent on a council estate in Stoke, or indeed mine as the son of a farm labourer from Gloucestershire, as it is possible to get. As for Cameron and his famous bike, followed discreetly by a car carrying his ironed shirt...

    They all spin themselves. What's more depressing is that we all (including me) fall for it every time.

    And with that, I must leave you. Nos da i gyd, and I hope you enjoy what little is left of this very damp Bank Holiday.

    Miliband grew up in Camden and if you had seen Haverstock and the area from which it gets its intake you would never describe it as "exclusive".

    I used to live near Haverstock and it's absolutely beautiful there

    Really? You clearly weren't looking very closely. It's virtually all council houses from Chalk Farm through to Kentish Town. And was even more so when Ed was there because many more had not been sold off. You wouldn't want to spend much time around Queen's Crescent after dark.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    Smarmeron said:

    @Sean_F
    Did it win the "bad sex" literary award that year?

    It might have been nominated.

    But, there are *even worse* sex scenes that actually win the prize. I have an indelible image of the protagonist's "chocolate fingers" from last year.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    edited August 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    @isam - final thought - is there ever a politician who didn't 'put things on' (not said to defend Farage, because I dislike the man). Baldwin used to practice the angle at which his pipe projected in front of the mirror. Wilson smoked cigars - an aide always had a filled pipe ready for whenever a press photographer showed up. Miliband claims he is from a normal background, even though as the son of a university lecturer who grew up in leafy Islington and went to a series of rather exclusive state schools (officially 'comprehensives' - we had one like that in Gloucestershire when I was growing up, and it was and remains a snobbish joke) his experience is about as remote from that of the child of a single parent on a council estate in Stoke, or indeed mine as the son of a farm labourer from Gloucestershire, as it is possible to get. As for Cameron and his famous bike, followed discreetly by a car carrying his ironed shirt...

    They all spin themselves. What's more depressing is that we all (including me) fall for it every time.

    And with that, I must leave you. Nos da i gyd, and I hope you enjoy what little is left of this very damp Bank Holiday.

    Miliband grew up in Camden and if you had seen Haverstock and the area from which it gets its intake you would never describe it as "exclusive".

    The academic results from that part of the world were very poor until recently

    Not a surprise. Miliband clearly had a privileged upbringing, but the idea Haverstock is "exclusive" is laughable. The catchment area has certainly gentrified to an extent recently, but back in the 80s it was mainly bandit country and a lot of it remains that way. My sister runs a pub (the Fiddlers) about 5 minutes from the front gate and right next door to a gang-infested estate.

  • alexalex Posts: 244
    ydoethur said:

    @Hugh, interpretations are undoubtedly part of history (it's called 'historiography', if you're interested) to the extent that one former colleague of mine complained history isn't made, it's written. But interpretations must be based on facts if they are to have any validity. And I say again there are people out there who play fast and loose with them. When I mentioned Gregory, I was thinking particularly of the Princes in the Tower. Among historians, the debate is over and has been for thirty years. The evidence all points to Richard having murdered them. He controlled access to them, he had the best possible reason to kill them, and he never said what had happened to them even though his men had been in charge of the Tower when they disappeared and would have undoubtedly known the truth, and relayed it to him. But Gregory picked Margaret Beaufort as the culprit. Let me run through her reasons:
    ...

    You see my point? Gregory speculates, but the 'facts' she speculates from are wrong, and that annoys me greatly as an historian and has caused many upsets - even tears - in my classroom when I'm teaching, because her fans struggle to understand that she has lied to them.

    I don't want to get all Thomas Gradgrind about this, but I do believe facts are important and that monkeying with them is dangerous - and that when we can get minor details right, we should make every effort to do so.

    I am intrigued that you necessarily see this as a problem - although maybe this is a consequence of modern education (what sort of pupils are you talking about btw - A-level?). I like reading historical novels because they introduce me to an historical period (often about which i know little previously) and hopefully in a way which is more palatable than reading dry non-fiction text books. However it is only a starting point - I am fully aware that authors will speculate or take liberties with facts in order to assist their story telling, But having captured my interest for a period i am much better motivated to get more in depth knowledge and where necessary challenge for myself the assertions and theories propounded by the authors (and ultimately historians in general). Surely this is what studying history should be all about?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    ydoethur said:

    @isam - final thought - is there ever a politician who didn't 'put things on' (not said to defend Farage, because I dislike the man). Baldwin used to practice the angle at which his pipe projected in front of the mirror. Wilson smoked cigars - an aide always had a filled pipe ready for whenever a press photographer showed up. Miliband claims he is from a normal background, even though as the son of a university lecturer who grew up in leafy Islington and went to a series of rather exclusive state schools (officially 'comprehensives' - we had one like that in Gloucestershire when I was growing up, and it was and remains a snobbish joke) his experience is about as remote from that of the child of a single parent on a council estate in Stoke, or indeed mine as the son of a farm labourer from Gloucestershire, as it is possible to get. As for Cameron and his famous bike, followed discreetly by a car carrying his ironed shirt...

    They all spin themselves. What's more depressing is that we all (including me) fall for it every time.

    And with that, I must leave you. Nos da i gyd, and I hope you enjoy what little is left of this very damp Bank Holiday.

    Miliband grew up in Camden and if you had seen Haverstock and the area from which it gets its intake you would never describe it as "exclusive".

    I used to live near Haverstock and it's absolutely beautiful there

    Really? You clearly weren't looking very closely. It's virtually all council houses from Chalk Farm through to Kentish Town. And was even more so when Ed was there because many more had not been sold off. You wouldn't want to spend much time around Queen's Crescent after dark.

    Haverstock Hill is beautiful, nr Belsize Pk station. Queens crescent is rough yes.

    Nice bits and bad bits but it's not east ham or Eltham
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    ydoethur said:

    @isam - final thought - is there ever a politician who didn't 'put things on' (not said to defend Farage, because I dislike the man). Baldwin used to practice the angle at which his pipe projected in front of the mirror. Wilson smoked cigars - an aide always had a filled pipe ready for whenever a press photographer showed up. Miliband claims he is from a normal background, even though as the son of a university lecturer who grew up in leafy Islington and went to a series of rather exclusive state schools (officially 'comprehensives' - we had one like that in Gloucestershire when I was growing up, and it was and remains a snobbish joke) his experience is about as remote from that of the child of a single parent on a council estate in Stoke, or indeed mine as the son of a farm labourer from Gloucestershire, as it is possible to get. As for Cameron and his famous bike, followed discreetly by a car carrying his ironed shirt...

    They all spin themselves. What's more depressing is that we all (including me) fall for it every time.

    And with that, I must leave you. Nos da i gyd, and I hope you enjoy what little is left of this very damp Bank Holiday.

    Miliband grew up in Camden and if you had seen Haverstock and the area from which it gets its intake you would never describe it as "exclusive".

    I used to live near Haverstock and it's absolutely beautiful there

    Really? You clearly weren't looking very closely. It's virtually all council houses from Chalk Farm through to Kentish Town. And was even more so when Ed was there because many more had not been sold off. You wouldn't want to spend much time around Queen's Crescent after dark.

    Haverstock Hill is beautiful, nr Belsize Pk station. Queens crescent is rough yes.

    Nice bits and bad bits but it's not east ham or Eltham

    No, it's not. But it's not exclusive. And all you need to do is look at the school's intake and catchment area to confirm that.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    ydoethur said:

    @isam - final thought - is there ever a politician who didn't 'put things on' (not said to defend Farage, because I dislike the man). Baldwin used to practice the angle at which his pipe projected in front of the mirror. Wilson smoked cigars - an aide always had a filled pipe ready for whenever a press photographer showed up. Miliband claims he is from a normal background, even though as the son of a university lecturer who grew up in leafy Islington and went to a series of rather exclusive state schools (officially 'comprehensives' - we had one like that in Gloucestershire when I was growing up, and it was and remains a snobbish joke) his experience is about as remote from that of the child of a single parent on a council estate in Stoke, or indeed mine as the son of a farm labourer from Gloucestershire, as it is possible to get. As for Cameron and his famous bike, followed discreetly by a car carrying his ironed shirt...

    They all spin themselves. What's more depressing is that we all (including me) fall for it every time.

    And with that, I must leave you. Nos da i gyd, and I hope you enjoy what little is left of this very damp Bank Holiday.

    Miliband grew up in Camden and if you had seen Haverstock and the area from which it gets its intake you would never describe it as "exclusive".

    I used to live near Haverstock and it's absolutely beautiful there

    Really? You clearly weren't looking very closely. It's virtually all council houses from Chalk Farm through to Kentish Town. And was even more so when Ed was there because many more had not been sold off. You wouldn't want to spend much time around Queen's Crescent after dark.

    Haverstock Hill is beautiful, nr Belsize Pk station. Queens crescent is rough yes.

    Nice bits and bad bits but it's not east ham or Eltham

    No, it's not. But it's not exclusive. And all you need to do is look at the school's intake and catchment area to confirm that.

    Yeah fair enough I wouldn't say the school was exclusive
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited August 2014
    One of the few pubs I didn't go to when I lived there! Rough part of town you're right... We used to play football at the talacre

    That said, 5 mins from Belsize park which is about as poncey as it gets... And where I went when trying to impress a bird ha!

    The house I shared in College lane just went for £1.7m
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030
  • Well the game's afoot in about half an hour. Time to get the popcorn ready!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030

    Well the game's afoot in about half an hour. Time to get the popcorn ready!

    My iPlayer is functioning normally. Much better than last time!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    alex said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Hugh, interpretations are undoubtedly part of history (it's called 'historiography', if you're interested) to the extent that one former colleague of mine complained history isn't made, it's written. But interpretations must be based on facts if they are to have any validity. And I say again there are people out there who play fast and loose with them. When I mentioned Gregory, I was thinking particularly of the Princes in the Tower. Among historians, the debate is over and has been for thirty years. The evidence all points to Richard having murdered them. He controlled access to them, he had the best possible reason to kill them, and he never said what had happened to them even though his men had been in charge of the Tower when they disappeared and would have undoubtedly known the truth, and relayed it to him. But Gregory picked Margaret Beaufort as the culprit. Let me run through her reasons:
    ...

    You see my point? Gregory speculates, but the 'facts' she speculates from are wrong, and that annoys me greatly as an historian and has caused many upsets - even tears - in my classroom when I'm teaching, because her fans struggle to understand that she has lied to them.

    I don't want to get all Thomas Gradgrind about this, but I do believe facts are important and that monkeying with them is dangerous - and that when we can get minor details right, we should make every effort to do so.

    I am intrigued that you necessarily see this as a problem - although maybe this is a consequence of modern education (what sort of pupils are you talking about btw - A-level?). I like reading historical novels because they introduce me to an historical period (often about which i know little previously) and hopefully in a way which is more palatable than reading dry non-fiction text books. However it is only a starting point - I am fully aware that authors will speculate or take liberties with facts in order to assist their story telling, But having captured my interest for a period i am much better motivated to get more in depth knowledge and where necessary challenge for myself the assertions and theories propounded by the authors (and ultimately historians in general). Surely this is what studying history should be all about?
    I like historical fiction for the very same reason, I suppose it's just always been a problem that rumour and lies can take hold in the public consciousness and distort abiding memory of an event or person, which is why academic study of anything is necessary to try to establish, inasmuch as possible, the facts, of course. The romantic or villifying interpretations not based on established facts needs must continue to be challenged, but it will never end.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    I've checked my Times vouchers! - It's paid! Coverage now on Sky news 82
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    The game's afoot:
    Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
    Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George!'
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    JBriskin said:

    I've checked my Times vouchers! - It's paid! Coverage now on Sky news 82

    Or even better for free, on the BBC.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030
    New thread
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    GIN1138 said:

    Good lord! What a bank holiday monday! Hasn't stopped raining all day!

    #globalwarming

    Even if we assumed a single day in a small area of the world had some sort of meaning for global temperature change, you are aware that global warming predicts the world will get warmer and wetter, right?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    taffys said:

    Ah the wicked EU, preventing British employers demanding people work a 50 hour week.

    I'm not arguing about the merits or demerits of the EU per se. Its the politics that is interesting to me.

    The politics of Europe appear to be swinging quickly in David Cameron's favour. With France on its knees, it will be much easier for the EU's other main contributor to hold Germany over a barrel.

    And that, of course, will have implications here, too, with regard to UKIP.

    There's no barrel. Per head the net UK contribution isn't that big. There's enough to be worth having, but not enough to get dicked around over.
    Why do it on a "per head" basis? It's the absolute net contribution that matters for EU finances.
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    How exciting though eh. Last Bank Holiday till the long stretch to Christmas was crap. We're all melancholically draining the last bottles, as much as we dare with work looming.

    But at least we've got Salmond v Darling in the referendum debate!
This discussion has been closed.