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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Not only will the future of the UK be determined on Septemb

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited August 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Not only will the future of the UK be determined on September 18 – but Shadsy’s bonus could be on the line

Great article on the IndyRef betting on the PoliticalBookie – the blog of Shadsy, a PB regular and the man who runs the politics desk at Ladbrokes.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,161
    edited August 2014
    The last shall be...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Second....like YESNP
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,161
    Maybe a lot of the money going on Yes is people wanting to get out of their positions, just in case?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,935
    It looks like I shall be on Barra for the referendum, so I shall be PB's Man on the Ground in the Outer Hebs - trying to get a sounding off the locals before the ballot box makes its leisurely way to the count!
  • It looks like I shall be on Barra for the referendum

    A wild and lonely place according to Private Frazer
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited August 2014
    Whilst it is likely that NO will win, theres no value in it with a couple of weeks to go and with no clear steer on turnout. If you haven't yet entered the market yet on NO, I'd not bother until well into next week at least unless:

    a) the markets shift the NO odds out

    and

    b) at the same time the polls don't show much more tightening.

    This is possible if substantive optimist money on YES does exist.

    On the other hand to back YES, at least as part of a hedging move does have more logic. The odds are not too bad and the YES campaign have nothing to lose and there is one TV debate to go so can throw the kitchen sink at it.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Shadsy is more likely going to get a huge bonus. While I disagree with it, Scottish independence is a perfectly reasonable political opinion, but it's such a major step they needed to make a very strong and logical case to overcome people's fear of the unknown. What we have instead got is every argument possible thrown at the wall, even when they completely contradict with one another.

    Scotland is going to get rid of nuclear weapons, yet still sign up to the NATO nuclear umbrella. Independence will allow Scotland to become a Nordic-style state, yet is also necessary to fight the "privatisation" of the NHS, where "privatisation" means the introduction of private healthcare companies like they have in the Nordic countries. The UK is an unfair country because of its unrepresentative FPTP electoral system, while the Tories' one MP in Scotland is representative of their lack of support there. Scotland gets a bad deal out of the UK because it pays in more to the exchequer than it gets out, and the UK is run for the benefit of London, whose net contribution is many, many times larger.

    The end result is a national strategy for independence that is cloudy and unreliable. The Scottish public have concluded that they can not trust the SNP with such a jump into the unknown.
  • DanBarkrDanBarkr Posts: 17
    But how many polls were done for the Bradford West byelection? Furthermore, how many long term polls (15 years or so for the SSA) back up the lack of any real turn of opinion?

  • Vote NO, save Ed!

    :)
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    REMINDER: Tomorrow evening.

    Salmond v Darling: BBC 2; 8.30pm - 10,00pm.

    Sound like at least a 15 round bout.
    Referee is Glenn Campbell of BBC Scotland who presents the Scottish Section of The Politics Show.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    DanBarkr said:

    But how many polls were done for the Bradford West byelection? Furthermore, how many long term polls (15 years or so for the SSA) back up the lack of any real turn of opinion?

    A very very good point. Local knowledge did win out in Bradford, but how many examples are there in the last 20 years of it winning out over consistent polling?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Shadsy, he the man.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    It is alleged that YESNP commissioned a poll from Survation on how Scottish women feel about the NHS - but have yet to publish the results:

    https://doc-0o-b4-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/ha0ro937gcuc7l7deffksulhg5h7mbp1/ulfit0pqodfk4d9jt8j6f9j9kimevc73/1408896000000/03826558544480309437/*/0BxhlO2qUM88wTmhyd01JMU1Ra00?h=16653014193614665626&e=download

    The NHS would be safer in:
    Independent Scotland: 32
    UK: 42.

    I expect they'll publish them any day soon........
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited August 2014
    "Shadsy’s bonus could be on the line" - and 200 Newark kippers scream - 'that's karma'.. ; )
  • DanBarkrDanBarkr Posts: 17
    Quincel said:

    DanBarkr said:

    But how many polls were done for the Bradford West byelection? Furthermore, how many long term polls (15 years or so for the SSA) back up the lack of any real turn of opinion?

    A very very good point. Local knowledge did win out in Bradford, but how many examples are there in the last 20 years of it winning out over consistent polling?
    For instance, the last US Presidential Election. Republicans (and Tea Partier's more specifically) were just as YES is now. Angry, adamant that they were going to win and ignoring the polls saying they were rigged.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited August 2014
    Syria:

    US journalist held in Syria for some time has reportedly been freed.

    By who? Rumour has it Jabhat Al Nusra, a Syrian born Islamist radical offshoot which reportedly has links to Al Qaeda and an outfit the US blacklisted and pointed to to deny support to insurgents.

    Reportedly the Qataris have been on the case to get this guy out. Is this a one off or is it part of a deal? The US have offered insurgents weapons and also, reportedly, to attack a number of Assad targets if they get fully on board with the fight against IS. It isn't as if the other insurgents havent been clashing with IS as it is but the latter offer is a tricky one if true.

    This is an interesting development.




  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,935

    It looks like I shall be on Barra for the referendum

    A wild and lonely place according to Private Frazer
    Expect my reports to confirm that either YES or NO is doomed - DOOMED, I tell yer....

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,935
    DanBarkr said:

    Quincel said:

    DanBarkr said:

    But how many polls were done for the Bradford West byelection? Furthermore, how many long term polls (15 years or so for the SSA) back up the lack of any real turn of opinion?

    A very very good point. Local knowledge did win out in Bradford, but how many examples are there in the last 20 years of it winning out over consistent polling?
    For instance, the last US Presidential Election. Republicans (and Tea Partier's more specifically) were just as YES is now. Angry, adamant that they were going to win and ignoring the polls saying they were rigged.
    And come next May, replace YES with UKIP....

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Sunil On present polls Ed is clearly winning even without Scotland, in fact Scotland is the only UK region he is polling lower than Brown

    O/T Had a fascinating afternoon at Berkeley Castle, Gloucestershire, scene of the murder of Kind Edward II in 1342, allegedly by a red hot poker, and home of the Berkeley family since Saxon times (1 was a former governor of Virginia, another gave his name to University of California at Berkeley). Next door is the house of Dr Jenner, who discovered the smallpox vaccine
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited August 2014
    @Hyfud

    "O/T Had a fascinating afternoon at Berkeley Castle, Gloucestershire, scene of the murder of Kind Edward II in 1342, allegedly by a red hot poker, and home of the Berkeley family since Saxon times (1 was a former governor of Virginia, another gave his name to University of California at Berkeley). Next door is the house of Dr Jenner, who discovered the smallpox vaccine"

    There is a co-incidence. I was reading about poor old Edward II's murder in bed last night. Did you know that Thomas Berkeley was paid five pounds a day for housing Edward, a vast sum at the time and, though he was not involved in the murder, he continued to be paid the daily rate until the body was removed from the castle, which was nearly a month later (no church or monastery would accept it until the Bishop of Gloucester eventually agreed). Clever people the Berkeley's though perhaps lacking in the olfactory department.

    Is the castle worth a visit?
  • shadsyshadsy Posts: 289
    Yeah, Bradford West didn't go well but as has been posted below, there were no polls, so a totally different situation..

    Dunno if anyone's linked to this yet, but there's an interesting youtube film with James Kelly attempting to explain why the polls might be wrong. I think he makes some very reasonable points.
    A bit one-sided obviously, but he's not pretending to be neutral, so that's OK.
    http://youtu.be/Rhyg5WA47qA
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Y0kel said:

    Syria:

    US journalist held in Syria for some time has reportedly been freed.

    By who? Rumour has it Jabhat Al Nusra, a Syrian born Islamist radical offshoot which reportedly has links to Al Qaeda and an outfit the US blacklisted and pointed to to deny support to insurgents.

    Reportedly the Qataris have been on the case to get this guy out. Is this a one off or is it part of a deal? The US have offered insurgents weapons and also, reportedly, to attack a number of Assad targets if they get fully on board with the fight against IS. It isn't as if the other insurgents havent been clashing with IS as it is but the latter offer is a tricky one if true.

    This is an interesting development.

    Maybe #Y0kel, but the Pentagon and the State Dept are tying themselves in knots over Syria and I think that there is every reason for the USA under Obama to do more damage to itself and the West.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    HurstLlama Yes, the castle is certainly worth going to and had a very good guide. He also pointed out, as you state, Thomas Berkeley got five pounds a day for looking after Edward, to cover servants and food etc and you can see the cell he was held in. Thomas was charged with being an accessory to his murder, but was cleared on the grounds he was absent at the time and it was carried out by agents of Roger Mortimer, who was himself hung by Edward's son, Edward III at Tyburn. Interestingly the guide also mentioned how opinions of Edward's death differ, with some talk that he was suffocated, and some have even discussed the possibility he escaped to exile in Italy
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    FPT:

    Someone posted a comment saying they thought 10% of voters were over 60.

    In fact the majority of people who vote in British elections are probably over 50, so it maybe as much as a third of voters over 60.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,142
    shadsy said:

    Yeah, Bradford West didn't go well but as has been posted below, there were no polls, so a totally different situation..

    Dunno if anyone's linked to this yet, but there's an interesting youtube film with James Kelly attempting to explain why the polls might be wrong. I think he makes some very reasonable points.
    A bit one-sided obviously, but he's not pretending to be neutral, so that's OK.
    http://youtu.be/Rhyg5WA47qA

    PB has already given a thoughtful and classy review.
  • My money's on Shadsy.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited August 2014
    HYUFD said:

    HurstLlama Yes, the castle is certainly worth going to and had a very good guide. He also pointed out, as you state, Thomas Berkeley got five pounds a day for looking after Edward, to cover servants and food etc and you can see the cell he was held in. Thomas was charged with being an accessory to his murder, but was cleared on the grounds he was absent at the time and it was carried out by agents of Roger Mortimer, who was himself hung by Edward's son, Edward III at Tyburn. Interestingly the guide also mentioned how opinions of Edward's death differ, with some talk that he was suffocated, and some have even discussed the possibility he escaped to exile in Italy

    Thanks for that, Mr Hyufd, I shall add the castle to next summer's visiting list. There is a story that when the body was removed to Gloucester the locals, who knew that he had been murdered, planted an Oak every mile along the road between the Castle and the Cathedral. Further, that six hundred and odd years later, some of those oaks are still standing, might be fun to try and track them down.

    As for the means of Edwards death, I have never been convinced by the red hot poker, which seems first to have been promulgated in a play by Marlowe. It just seems too lurid and too impractical to me. Something that fits nicely into a play to excite the audience but not to a bunch of blokes who need to kill someone. It does seem certain that the order for the murder originated from Mortimer and the Queen (his lover and Edward's wife) but was actually given by Bishop Orleton (a very old mate of Mortimer's and the bloke who sprang him form the Tower). The instruction may have included, "leave no mark" but, in the days before post mortems a pillow over the face was probably good enough (see the death of Richard II a generation later).

    The idea that Edward escaped and spent his last years as a monk in Italy comes up from time to time, but I am not aware of a shred of credible evidence to support it. Politically it would make no sense for any of the players involved.

    Oh, one last little thing Berkeley Square in Mayfair is so named because of the London home of the Berkeley family that stood on or near the spot where it was laid out. So the next time you visit Annnabelle's for a night out or Jack Barclay's to order your new Roller or pop into Benares for an Indian (I wouldn't bother, you can get better in your local curry house) then you are walking into a bit of XIVth century history.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Apart from the general fact that older people tend to turn out we still haven't had much analysis (that I'm aware of) of general turnout possibilities and the possible nature of any differential turnout and motivation of Yes & No voters.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    shadsy said:

    Yeah, Bradford West didn't go well but as has been posted below, there were no polls, so a totally different situation..

    Dunno if anyone's linked to this yet, but there's an interesting youtube film with James Kelly attempting to explain why the polls might be wrong. I think he makes some very reasonable points.
    A bit one-sided obviously, but he's not pretending to be neutral, so that's OK.
    http://youtu.be/Rhyg5WA47qA

    PB has already given a thoughtful and classy review.
    Yes all those experts who are worrying about all the "new scots" etc , their measured report on James was amazing to behold, insightful to say the least.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Evening all and impossible to check but it would be interesting to know how much money on YES and NO has been bet by people based in Scotland and how much by people based elsewhere, especially in England.

    Although I will be voting NO I fear there has been a dismissive attitude shown by the powers that be in Westminster and as Colin Fox the SSP leader has said, the Scottish middle class may waken up on 19th September and get the biggest shock of its collective life.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    It looks like I shall be on Barra for the referendum

    A wild and lonely place according to Private Frazer
    Expect my reports to confirm that either YES or NO is doomed - DOOMED, I tell yer....

    We certainly are hoping something is doomed, mainly pompous arseholes mind you.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    Socrates said:

    Shadsy is more likely going to get a huge bonus. While I disagree with it, Scottish independence is a perfectly reasonable political opinion, but it's such a major step they needed to make a very strong and logical case to overcome people's fear of the unknown. What we have instead got is every argument possible thrown at the wall, even when they completely contradict with one another.

    Scotland is going to get rid of nuclear weapons, yet still sign up to the NATO nuclear umbrella. Independence will allow Scotland to become a Nordic-style state, yet is also necessary to fight the "privatisation" of the NHS, where "privatisation" means the introduction of private healthcare companies like they have in the Nordic countries. The UK is an unfair country because of its unrepresentative FPTP electoral system, while the Tories' one MP in Scotland is representative of their lack of support there. Scotland gets a bad deal out of the UK because it pays in more to the exchequer than it gets out, and the UK is run for the benefit of London, whose net contribution is many, many times larger.

    The end result is a national strategy for independence that is cloudy and unreliable. The Scottish public have concluded that they can not trust the SNP with such a jump into the unknown.

    The Brahm seer has spoken , he sees the future. Stupid Fanny down south talking bollocks.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Re turnout, one of my friends is in charge of a polling station on the 18th. He had a training session this week. They have been instructed by the returning officer for Scotland to expect a huge turnout, certainly in excess of 80%. It looks as though her instruction to print 120% of necessary ballot papers will be a wise one. Even now there is a final push going on to get unregistered people to register by next weekend.

    I decided to change from my permanent proxy to a permanent postal vote. Every council office has been instructed to scan all forms received straight into the electoral roll. I handed my form in last Friday morning and by lunchtime had the regional office on the phone to double check I wanted a permanent postal vote instead of my proxy.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    Evening all and impossible to check but it would be interesting to know how much money on YES and NO has been bet by people based in Scotland and how much by people based elsewhere, especially in England.

    Although I will be voting NO I fear there has been a dismissive attitude shown by the powers that be in Westminster and as Colin Fox the SSP leader has said, the Scottish middle class may waken up on 19th September and get the biggest shock of its collective life.

    William Hills is about 80% on YES in Scotland, only London has big money on NO. Wales and Ireland same as Scotland. On Oddschecker it is roughly 60% of all bets on YES. All distorted by the big bet in London/Surrey area.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Good evening, everyone.

    Hmm. Just realised the debate clashes with The 100, which I have been commanded by someone or other here to keep watching. Nevertheless, I shall check it during the advert breaks.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Y0kel said:

    Apart from the general fact that older people tend to turn out we still haven't had much analysis (that I'm aware of) of general turnout possibilities and the possible nature of any differential turnout and motivation of Yes & No voters.

    You would think it would be 100%. Its amazing to think that 20% will not vote. How does this work - do the polls pick up the 20% who do not vote and cast them aside and consider the rest? If they do not then how accurate can their trawl be?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    edited August 2014

    Y0kel said:

    Apart from the general fact that older people tend to turn out we still haven't had much analysis (that I'm aware of) of general turnout possibilities and the possible nature of any differential turnout and motivation of Yes & No voters.

    You would think it would be 100%. Its amazing to think that 20% will not vote. How does this work - do the polls pick up the 20% who do not vote and cast them aside and consider the rest? If they do not then how accurate can their trawl be?
    They will be lucky to be polling anywhere near 50% , many many are registering for the first time ever. They are not rich middle class NO voters either, big shock in store.

    Look at supposed Labour big beast in Labour heartlands, see how popular they are and what is really happening
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPL1tbjD_lM
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915

    It looks like I shall be on Barra for the referendum, so I shall be PB's Man on the Ground in the Outer Hebs - trying to get a sounding off the locals before the ballot box makes its leisurely way to the count!

    I would expect the vote on Barra to be an overwhelming YES. The SNP MP for the Western Isles is a local boy. It is the Glasgow result which will in my view tip the result one way or the other. If North Lanarkshire is anything closers than 60 NO 40 YES, I would reckon the Union could be in trouble. The South of Scotland should be an overwhelming NO, the Highlands a YES, Perthshire and Tayside probably touch and go and Aberdeen/shire also touch and go.
  • Shadsy is going to get a kicking.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,561

    Y0kel said:

    Apart from the general fact that older people tend to turn out we still haven't had much analysis (that I'm aware of) of general turnout possibilities and the possible nature of any differential turnout and motivation of Yes & No voters.

    You would think it would be 100%. Its amazing to think that 20% will not vote. How does this work - do the polls pick up the 20% who do not vote and cast them aside and consider the rest? If they do not then how accurate can their trawl be?
    This applies big time to General Election polls and even more to Euros and the like, of course. Most pollsters ask how sure you are to vote and either (1) discount anyone who isn't sure or (2) weight them down, i.e. if you're 50% sure your opinion is counted at half value. YouGov doesn't ask at all. The quesituon is whether people are really reliable in guessing whether they'll vote - the answer seems to be "fairly" - there's a close correlation between turnout and expectation, so about half the 50% people do vote.

    Not that surprising that 20% won't vote - bizarre though it seems to us, quite a few people genuinely do not give a toss about any aspect of political life, possibly including what country they're in. They feel that people in power do what they like anyway and ordinary people should just get on with enjoying life and ignoring the political stuff.

    They would probably be just as bemused that I don't know any footballers...

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    Shadsy is going to get a kicking.

    A very big one
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Good evening, everyone.

    Hmm. Just realised the debate clashes with The 100, which I have been commanded by someone or other here to keep watching. Nevertheless, I shall check it during the advert breaks.

    As I suspect I was the one who urged you so, I can see that would provide a difficult choice. I'd recommend watching the 100 another time if you can - while the arguments of the debate will be the same old fare as ever, I imagine the specific hysterical reactions from each side, and what ends up prompting them, online should be most amusing.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Y0kel said:

    Apart from the general fact that older people tend to turn out we still haven't had much analysis (that I'm aware of) of general turnout possibilities and the possible nature of any differential turnout and motivation of Yes & No voters.

    You would think it would be 100%. Its amazing to think that 20% will not vote. How does this work - do the polls pick up the 20% who do not vote and cast them aside and consider the rest? If they do not then how accurate can their trawl be?
    This applies big time to General Election polls and even more to Euros and the like, of course. Most pollsters ask how sure you are to vote and either (1) discount anyone who isn't sure or (2) weight them down, i.e. if you're 50% sure your opinion is counted at half value. YouGov doesn't ask at all. The quesituon is whether people are really reliable in guessing whether they'll vote - the answer seems to be "fairly" - there's a close correlation between turnout and expectation, so about half the 50% people do vote.

    Not that surprising that 20% won't vote - bizarre though it seems to us, quite a few people genuinely do not give a toss about any aspect of political life, possibly including what country they're in. They feel that people in power do what they like anyway and ordinary people should just get on with enjoying life and ignoring the political stuff.

    They would probably be just as bemused that I don't know any footballers...

    You don't know any footballers? Are you sure?

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/09/25/article-0-0E14001900000578-749_306x535.jpg

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    Y0kel said:

    Apart from the general fact that older people tend to turn out we still haven't had much analysis (that I'm aware of) of general turnout possibilities and the possible nature of any differential turnout and motivation of Yes & No voters.

    You would think it would be 100%. Its amazing to think that 20% will not vote. How does this work - do the polls pick up the 20% who do not vote and cast them aside and consider the rest? If they do not then how accurate can their trawl be?
    This applies big time to General Election polls and even more to Euros and the like, of course. Most pollsters ask how sure you are to vote and either (1) discount anyone who isn't sure or (2) weight them down, i.e. if you're 50% sure your opinion is counted at half value. YouGov doesn't ask at all. The quesituon is whether people are really reliable in guessing whether they'll vote - the answer seems to be "fairly" - there's a close correlation between turnout and expectation, so about half the 50% people do vote.

    Not that surprising that 20% won't vote - bizarre though it seems to us, quite a few people genuinely do not give a toss about any aspect of political life, possibly including what country they're in. They feel that people in power do what they like anyway and ordinary people should just get on with enjoying life and ignoring the political stuff.

    They would probably be just as bemused that I don't know any footballers...

    You don't know any footballers? Are you sure?

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/09/25/article-0-0E14001900000578-749_306x535.jpg

    I think he may have been correct , that was no footballer. Think you should have gone to Specsavers
  • malcolmg said:

    Socrates said:

    Shadsy is more likely going to get a huge bonus. While I disagree with it, Scottish independence is a perfectly reasonable political opinion, but it's such a major step they needed to make a very strong and logical case to overcome people's fear of the unknown. What we have instead got is every argument possible thrown at the wall, even when they completely contradict with one another.

    Scotland is going to get rid of nuclear weapons, yet still sign up to the NATO nuclear umbrella. Independence will allow Scotland to become a Nordic-style state, yet is also necessary to fight the "privatisation" of the NHS, where "privatisation" means the introduction of private healthcare companies like they have in the Nordic countries. The UK is an unfair country because of its unrepresentative FPTP electoral system, while the Tories' one MP in Scotland is representative of their lack of support there. Scotland gets a bad deal out of the UK because it pays in more to the exchequer than it gets out, and the UK is run for the benefit of London, whose net contribution is many, many times larger.

    The end result is a national strategy for independence that is cloudy and unreliable. The Scottish public have concluded that they can not trust the SNP with such a jump into the unknown.

    The Brahm seer has spoken , he sees the future. Stupid Fanny down south talking bollocks.
    To think that only two days ago MalcolmG was predicting that Salmond wouldn't stoop to the indignity of an Ice Bucket Challenge. You are invariably wrong about everything Scottish. It's uncanny.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    malcolmg said:

    Shadsy is going to get a kicking.

    A very big one
    I don't know much about betting but Malcolm surely Shadsy only gets a kicking if NO wins!! Have you changed sides?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2014
    The only good news out of today's San Fransisco earthquake:

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-lanow-ln-earthquake-earlywarning-system-gave-10second-alert-before-napa-quake-felt-20140824-story.html

    You can now predict earthquakes (well its a warning really).
  • malcolmg said:

    Shadsy is going to get a kicking.

    A very big one
    Shadsy vs MG and Southern " President Romney " Observer.

  • malcolmg said:

    Shadsy is going to get a kicking.

    A very big one
    I don't know much about betting but Malcolm surely Shadsy only gets a kicking if NO wins!! Have you changed sides?
    Shadsy and Ladbrokes are betting on a NO.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    malcolmg said:

    Shadsy is going to get a kicking.

    A very big one
    I don't know much about betting but Malcolm surely Shadsy only gets a kicking if NO wins!! Have you changed sides?
    Easterross, good evening , I was talking about his opinion that the vote would be NO. Most of the money is on YES apart from the big bets with Hills. Most will not be happy with YES apart from Hills.
    I may be deluded but it seems to get more and more likely that there will be some very surprised people come 19th.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2014
    Y0kel said:

    Syria:

    US journalist held in Syria for some time has reportedly been freed.

    By who? Rumour has it Jabhat Al Nusra, a Syrian born Islamist radical offshoot which reportedly has links to Al Qaeda and an outfit the US blacklisted and pointed to to deny support to insurgents.

    Reportedly the Qataris have been on the case to get this guy out. Is this a one off or is it part of a deal? The US have offered insurgents weapons and also, reportedly, to attack a number of Assad targets if they get fully on board with the fight against IS. It isn't as if the other insurgents havent been clashing with IS as it is but the latter offer is a tricky one if true.

    This is an interesting development.




    If that were true it opens the political can of worms of accusing the US government of making deals with Al Qaeda.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    malcolmg said:

    Socrates said:

    Shadsy is more likely going to get a huge bonus. While I disagree with it, Scottish independence is a perfectly reasonable political opinion, but it's such a major step they needed to make a very strong and logical case to overcome people's fear of the unknown. What we have instead got is every argument possible thrown at the wall, even when they completely contradict with one another.

    Scotland is going to get rid of nuclear weapons, yet still sign up to the NATO nuclear umbrella. Independence will allow Scotland to become a Nordic-style state, yet is also necessary to fight the "privatisation" of the NHS, where "privatisation" means the introduction of private healthcare companies like they have in the Nordic countries. The UK is an unfair country because of its unrepresentative FPTP electoral system, while the Tories' one MP in Scotland is representative of their lack of support there. Scotland gets a bad deal out of the UK because it pays in more to the exchequer than it gets out, and the UK is run for the benefit of London, whose net contribution is many, many times larger.

    The end result is a national strategy for independence that is cloudy and unreliable. The Scottish public have concluded that they can not trust the SNP with such a jump into the unknown.

    The Brahm seer has spoken , he sees the future. Stupid Fanny down south talking bollocks.
    To think that only two days ago MalcolmG was predicting that Salmond wouldn't stoop to the indignity of an Ice Bucket Challenge. You are invariably wrong about everything Scottish. It's uncanny.
    You really are stupid, I said shouldn't NOT wouldn't. Of course he had to do it , just to save us the pathetic sight of that reptile Darling twitching and frothing. Alex deserves a medal for saving the nation from that.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    malcolmg said:


    I may be deluded but it seems to get more and more likely that there will be some very surprised people come 19th.

    Oh, the beauty of this one is that there will be some *very* surprised people either way.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    Neil said:

    malcolmg said:


    I may be deluded but it seems to get more and more likely that there will be some very surprised people come 19th.

    Oh, the beauty of this one is that there will be some *very* surprised people either way.
    Neil, traffic is all one way my friend
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    edited August 2014
    Ebola arrives in the UK!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28919831
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited August 2014
    Speedy said:

    Y0kel said:

    Syria:

    US journalist held in Syria for some time has reportedly been freed.

    By who? Rumour has it Jabhat Al Nusra, a Syrian born Islamist radical offshoot which reportedly has links to Al Qaeda and an outfit the US blacklisted and pointed to to deny support to insurgents.

    Reportedly the Qataris have been on the case to get this guy out. Is this a one off or is it part of a deal? The US have offered insurgents weapons and also, reportedly, to attack a number of Assad targets if they get fully on board with the fight against IS. It isn't as if the other insurgents havent been clashing with IS as it is but the latter offer is a tricky one if true.

    This is an interesting development.




    If that were true it opens the political can of worms of accusing the US government of making deals with Al Qaeda.
    Wouldn't it just. though the background to this may well be part carrot and part stick.

    Interesting too that a German believed held by IS in Syria since 2013 has been released for a 'substantial consideration' though the German government denies it paid cash.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2014

    Ebola arrives in the UK!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28919831

    Nothing that a bar of soap can't do.
    The way ebola is contracted, washing hands goes a long way to prevent it from spreading.
  • RIP Richard Attenborough
  • OT. Sir Richard Attenborough has died at the age of 90. Great actor and greater director.

    RIP
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Y0kel said:

    Apart from the general fact that older people tend to turn out we still haven't had much analysis (that I'm aware of) of general turnout possibilities and the possible nature of any differential turnout and motivation of Yes & No voters.

    You would think it would be 100%. Its amazing to think that 20% will not vote. How does this work - do the polls pick up the 20% who do not vote and cast them aside and consider the rest? If they do not then how accurate can their trawl be?
    This applies big time to General Election polls and even more to Euros and the like, of course. Most pollsters ask how sure you are to vote and either (1) discount anyone who isn't sure or (2) weight them down, i.e. if you're 50% sure your opinion is counted at half value. YouGov doesn't ask at all. The quesituon is whether people are really reliable in guessing whether they'll vote - the answer seems to be "fairly" - there's a close correlation between turnout and expectation, so about half the 50% people do vote.

    Not that surprising that 20% won't vote - bizarre though it seems to us, quite a few people genuinely do not give a toss about any aspect of political life, possibly including what country they're in. They feel that people in power do what they like anyway and ordinary people should just get on with enjoying life and ignoring the political stuff.

    They would probably be just as bemused that I don't know any footballers...

    Indyref turnout is predicted at 80% (althought the Quebec one was higher than that) -if so then 20% are not bothered about the existence or not of their country. I hope turnout is of course much higher than that

    General election turnout is say 75%, are pollsters finding that number in their trawl?
  • Ebola arrives in the UK!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28919831

    Definitely the right thing to do bringing the patient home. Just hope they can save him.
  • Ebola arrives in the UK!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28919831

    Definitely the right thing to do bringing the patient home. Just hope they can save him.
    Looks like ZMapp, used to treat the Americans, has run out, but hopefully he's in good hands.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Y0kel said:

    Apart from the general fact that older people tend to turn out we still haven't had much analysis (that I'm aware of) of general turnout possibilities and the possible nature of any differential turnout and motivation of Yes & No voters.

    You would think it would be 100%. Its amazing to think that 20% will not vote. How does this work - do the polls pick up the 20% who do not vote and cast them aside and consider the rest? If they do not then how accurate can their trawl be?
    This applies big time to General Election polls and even more to Euros and the like, of course. Most pollsters ask how sure you are to vote and either (1) discount anyone who isn't sure or (2) weight them down, i.e. if you're 50% sure your opinion is counted at half value. YouGov doesn't ask at all. The quesituon is whether people are really reliable in guessing whether they'll vote - the answer seems to be "fairly" - there's a close correlation between turnout and expectation, so about half the 50% people do vote.

    Not that surprising that 20% won't vote - bizarre though it seems to us, quite a few people genuinely do not give a toss about any aspect of political life, possibly including what country they're in. They feel that people in power do what they like anyway and ordinary people should just get on with enjoying life and ignoring the political stuff.

    They would probably be just as bemused that I don't know any footballers...

    Indyref turnout is predicted at 80% (althought the Quebec one was higher than that) -if so then 20% are not bothered about the existence or not of their country. I hope turnout is of course much higher than that

    General election turnout is say 75%, are pollsters finding that number in their trawl?
    GE turnout is nearer 60% rather than 75 . Online pollsters tend to show much higher than that which indicates online panels are not representative of the population as a whole tho of course they may be representative of those who vote .
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    OT. Sir Richard Attenborough has died at the age of 90. Great actor and greater director.

    RIP

    OH NO.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Sad at the passing of Sir Richard Attenborough. I first saw him in, "In Which We Serve", when I was a kid.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Speedy said:

    Ebola arrives in the UK!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28919831

    Nothing that a bar of soap can't do.
    The way ebola is contracted, washing hands goes a long way to prevent it from spreading.
    Aaaah! But what if it mutates?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    MikeK said:

    Speedy said:

    Ebola arrives in the UK!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28919831

    Nothing that a bar of soap can't do.
    The way ebola is contracted, washing hands goes a long way to prevent it from spreading.
    Aaaah! But what if it mutates?
    Crikey, another Tom Clancy fan. If it does, or if some laboratory makes a variant that can be spread by aerosol, then the human race is facing a new black death - 30% wipe out globally. Mind you, if you really want to panic, some years ago I was having a few beers with a chap from Porton Down and he reckoned it was possible to amend a virus so that it only affected people with specific genetic traits (e.g.males with blue eyes). Sounded like nonsense to me but he was the chap with the initials after his name and he was being paid by HMG to research that sort of stuff.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    MikeK said:

    Sad at the passing of Sir Richard Attenborough. I first saw him in, "In Which We Serve", when I was a kid.

    "In Which We Serve"

    A damn good film and so full of what HMG thought the UK was like at the time, and were they wrong? It is available on YouTube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOeg3GGI7AY

    Noel Coward, John Mills, Bernard Miles and, of course, Dicky Attenborough, who would want to miss it.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Shadsy is going to get a kicking.

    And Mitt Romney is going to win the 2012 election, right?
  • My father passed away this week too.

    Sad times abound - although today's PL league table would have made the old man smile...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    DanBarkr said:

    Quincel said:

    DanBarkr said:

    But how many polls were done for the Bradford West byelection? Furthermore, how many long term polls (15 years or so for the SSA) back up the lack of any real turn of opinion?

    A very very good point. Local knowledge did win out in Bradford, but how many examples are there in the last 20 years of it winning out over consistent polling?
    For instance, the last US Presidential Election. Republicans (and Tea Partier's more specifically) were just as YES is now. Angry, adamant that they were going to win and ignoring the polls saying they were rigged.
    And come next May, replace YES with UKIP....

    Except the polls back up UKIP doing well.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2014

    MikeK said:

    Speedy said:

    Ebola arrives in the UK!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28919831

    Nothing that a bar of soap can't do.
    The way ebola is contracted, washing hands goes a long way to prevent it from spreading.
    Aaaah! But what if it mutates?
    Crikey, another Tom Clancy fan. If it does, or if some laboratory makes a variant that can be spread by aerosol, then the human race is facing a new black death - 30% wipe out globally. Mind you, if you really want to panic, some years ago I was having a few beers with a chap from Porton Down and he reckoned it was possible to amend a virus so that it only affected people with specific genetic traits (e.g.males with blue eyes). Sounded like nonsense to me but he was the chap with the initials after his name and he was being paid by HMG to research that sort of stuff.
    You can't control evolution, if a looney did do that it would mutate to infect others too, didn't he see Jurassic Park (putting an Attenborough reference there).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PLvdmifDSk
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited August 2014
    Speedy said:

    MikeK said:

    Speedy said:

    Ebola arrives in the UK!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28919831

    Nothing that a bar of soap can't do.
    The way ebola is contracted, washing hands goes a long way to prevent it from spreading.
    Aaaah! But what if it mutates?
    Crikey, another Tom Clancy fan. If it does, or if some laboratory makes a variant that can be spread by aerosol, then the human race is facing a new black death - 30% wipe out globally. Mind you, if you really want to panic, some years ago I was having a few beers with a chap from Porton Down and he reckoned it was possible to amend a virus so that it only affected people with specific genetic traits (e.g.males with blue eyes). Sounded like nonsense to me but he was the chap with the initials after his name and he was being paid by HMG to research that sort of stuff.
    You can't control evolution, if a looney did do that it would mutate to infect others too, didn't he see Jurassic Park (putting an Attenborough reference there).

    htps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PLvdmifDSk
    I wonder if the forthcoming Jurassic World movie will do the original justice (I don't really remember the sequels). Amusingly, BD Wong will reprise his role from the original film according to dear old Wikipedia - he was in it for something like 5 minutes, apparently, not that I remember it, but was supposedly the actual geneticist for the Park, and so technically responsible for everything that occurred. I like the idea of them going back to the roots of the original so thoroughly that a small detail like that is picked up. It was, as far as I can recall, the very first movie I saw at the cinema. Fond memories.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Y0kel said:

    Apart from the general fact that older people tend to turn out we still haven't had much analysis (that I'm aware of) of general turnout possibilities and the possible nature of any differential turnout and motivation of Yes & No voters.

    You would think it would be 100%. Its amazing to think that 20% will not vote. How does this work - do the polls pick up the 20% who do not vote and cast them aside and consider the rest? If they do not then how accurate can their trawl be?
    This applies big time to General Election polls and even more to Euros and the like, of course. Most pollsters ask how sure you are to vote and either (1) discount anyone who isn't sure or (2) weight them down, i.e. if you're 50% sure your opinion is counted at half value. YouGov doesn't ask at all. The quesituon is whether people are really reliable in guessing whether they'll vote - the answer seems to be "fairly" - there's a close correlation between turnout and expectation, so about half the 50% people do vote.

    Not that surprising that 20% won't vote - bizarre though it seems to us, quite a few people genuinely do not give a toss about any aspect of political life, possibly including what country they're in. They feel that people in power do what they like anyway and ordinary people should just get on with enjoying life and ignoring the political stuff.

    They would probably be just as bemused that I don't know any footballers...

    Indyref turnout is predicted at 80% (althought the Quebec one was higher than that) -if so then 20% are not bothered about the existence or not of their country. I hope turnout is of course much higher than that

    General election turnout is say 75%, are pollsters finding that number in their trawl?
    GE turnout is nearer 60% rather than 75 . Online pollsters tend to show much higher than that which indicates online panels are not representative of the population as a whole tho of course they may be representative of those who vote .
    Well 1997 turnout was nearly 72%. 2001 was terribly low. But 2010 was 65%. Turnout has been normally over 70%.
    Panels 'may' be representative. But if panels are not finding the 30% who do not vote then it is more by good luck than good judgement isn't it?
    I simply ask...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    malcolmg said:

    Y0kel said:

    Apart from the general fact that older people tend to turn out we still haven't had much analysis (that I'm aware of) of general turnout possibilities and the possible nature of any differential turnout and motivation of Yes & No voters.

    You would think it would be 100%. Its amazing to think that 20% will not vote. How does this work - do the polls pick up the 20% who do not vote and cast them aside and consider the rest? If they do not then how accurate can their trawl be?
    They will be lucky to be polling anywhere near 50% , many many are registering for the first time ever. They are not rich middle class NO voters either, big shock in store.

    Look at supposed Labour big beast in Labour heartlands, see how popular they are and what is really happening
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPL1tbjD_lM
    Ah accusing Jim Murphy of being a terrorist...

    Great level of debate here.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    edited August 2014
    RIP Sir Richard Attenborough, one of the cinematic titans of our age, Gandhi and Jurassic Park amongst the most notable, though he also did a great Santa Clause in Miracle on 34th Street. Strangely enough I heard him speaking in a preview of an interview on Radio 2 this afternoon and mistakenly thought he had already passed, but he leaves a great legacy nonetheless
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Bit surprising?!

    Holidays to Iraq still selling

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2733055/Holiday-firm-continue-offer-trips-IRAQ-despite-increasing-threat-posed-Islamic-State-militants.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline

    My aunt works out there in Erbil, she had come home but just went back.... Madness IMO

    * actually my mums sisters husbands second wife after my real aunt died... My uncle was an early polish immigrant coming here in the early 60s
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    MikeK said:

    Speedy said:

    Ebola arrives in the UK!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28919831

    Nothing that a bar of soap can't do.
    The way ebola is contracted, washing hands goes a long way to prevent it from spreading.
    Aaaah! But what if it mutates?
    Crikey, another Tom Clancy fan. If it does, or if some laboratory makes a variant that can be spread by aerosol, then the human race is facing a new black death - 30% wipe out globally. Mind you, if you really want to panic, some years ago I was having a few beers with a chap from Porton Down and he reckoned it was possible to amend a virus so that it only affected people with specific genetic traits (e.g.males with blue eyes). Sounded like nonsense to me but he was the chap with the initials after his name and he was being paid by HMG to research that sort of stuff.
    You can't control evolution, if a looney did do that it would mutate to infect others too, didn't he see Jurassic Park (putting an Attenborough reference there).

    htps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PLvdmifDSk
    I wonder if the forthcoming Jurassic World movie will do the original justice (I don't really remember the sequels). Amusingly, BD Wong will reprise his role from the original film according to dear old Wikipedia - he was in it for something like 5 minutes, apparently, not that I remember it, but was supposedly the actual geneticist for the Park, and so technically responsible for everything that occurred. I like the idea of them going back to the roots of the original so thoroughly that a small detail like that is picked up. It was, as far as I can recall, the very first movie I saw at the cinema. Fond memories.
    Hollywood is really running out of ideas.

    Next they will do another Star Wars movie, or another Star Trek, or Indiana Jones, or Spiderman, or Batman, Die Hard, Rocky, Rambo, ect ect .
    They will do sequels for every 80's and 90's movie, they might even make Titanic II. For God's sake why don't they just make them into a TV series, they can fill in an entire season just with James Bond movies already.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Some very wise words from the very wise Shadsy on his blog:

    I’m more of the opinion that you’ve got a better chance of coming to an objective view on the probabilities by being removed from anecdotal “on the ground” evidence.

    This accords with my personal experience - I've done well in the past on US, Irish and Scottish elections, far away from any 'on the ground' evidence.

    Of course there can be exceptions, but these are more likely to be in small-scale elections such as Bradford West.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    HurstLlama Yes, Gloucester too worth a visit and Edward is buried in the Cathedral. Thankyou too for providing some more context on his fate, very interesting and some of which I did not know about. I also did not know about the Berkeley Square connection very interesting too, although sadly I doubt I will be going to Annabel's very often, though my late grandfather was a member
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    On the particular point of the money moving to Yes, this might not mean very much other than that the odds on No are now so short that it hardly seems worth the candle.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983



    I’m more of the opinion that you’ve got a better chance of coming to an objective view on the probabilities by being removed from anecdotal “on the ground” evidence.

    'On the ground' evidence is usually the best you can get. It just has to be good and it needs someone who knows how to interpret it (as Nick Palmer often says). Raw canvass returns or, worse, bumper sticker / poster counting are completely useless. Being able to compare canvass returns to past experience and having comprehensive data of a large proportion of the ward / constituency is completely different. Having a sneak at how the postal vote opening is going (naughty!) is really good too (but again has to be compared to past performances as postal votes are skewed to a certain type of voter).

    I cant say I've been convinced that anyone credible is privy to good 'on the ground' evidence that should make a punter think the Scottish Independence polls are wrong (which is not to say that the polls arent wrong). And I've seen loads of dross written by people who clearly havent a clue.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Speedy said:

    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    MikeK said:

    Speedy said:

    Ebola arrives in the UK!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28919831

    Nothing that a bar of soap can't do.
    The way ebola is contracted, washing hands goes a long way to prevent it from spreading.
    Aaaah! But what if it mutates?
    Crikey, an.g.males with blue eyes). Sounded like nonsense to me but he was the chap with the initials after his name and he was being paid by HMG to research that sort of stuff.
    You can't control evolution, if a looney did do that it would mutate to infect others too, didn't he see Jurassic Park (putting an Attenborough reference there).

    htps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PLvdmifDSk
    I ots of ries.
    Hollywood is really running out of ideas.

    Next they will do another Star Wars movie, or another Star Trek, or Indiana Jones, or Spiderman, or Batman, Die Hard, Rocky, Rambo, ect ect .
    They will do sequels for every 80's and 90's movie, they might even make Titanic II. For God's sake why don't they just make them into a TV series, they can fill in an entire season just with James Bond movies already.
    Hollwood has always remade ideas, or reused them. It might seem particularly bad right now, but it's only a matter of degree, a lot of what people think of as great original movies were not the first to tackle the same idea. If it is a matter of a franchise, I don't even have a problem with doing yet more Star Trek/Wars and the like - they are familiar settings but still new stories and ideas even if they borrow elements and plot points from earlier ones. If an idea has lain dormant for 20 odd years, it seems a great idea to revisit in my view - with bigger budgets and better technology, perhaps they can make ideas work which didn't previously, or they can see if they can improve on something that was already great. If they mess it up, we no longer need to fear that the old stuff might be lost forever one day or forgotten, people don't let the old classics die. It only really annoys me when there's no reason to reuse an idea creatively, other than copyright games, a la Spiderman.

    There does seem to be a trend of movies into TV series now though - apparently they're looking at doing a Minority Report TV series of all things - which feels like it is more than used to be the case, not that it is entirely new (Terminator, Buffy, Tremors, Stargate etc). I think it's a good idea - you can get much more complex stories and characters out of a series than you can a 2 hour movie.

    Also, I believe there has already been a Titanic 2, even if it was not big budget Hollywood.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1640571/
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Neil said:

    Being able to compare canvass returns to past experience and having comprehensive data of a large proportion of the ward / constituency

    And therein lie the problem with indyref canvassing. There is no past experience or historic data.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Speedy As well as the new Star Wars' movie with Harrison Ford etc they are also doing a 'Batman v Superman' movie in 2016 with Henry Cavill and Ben Affleck
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Can I just say well done to our british sporting teams,the year of sport for this country started off very poorly

    The british/NI athletics team at the European championships finished top of the medal table with a record 12 golds

    The English team at the commonwealth games finish top of the medal table with a record haul of 174 medals of which 58 gold and Scotland finish with a record haul of 53 medals,19 gold.

    The GB Swimming team at the European championships finish top of the medal table with 27 medals,11 gold.

    The GB team at the IPC Athletics European Championships finish third in medal table with 16 golds

    The Youth Olympics,the GB team have won 21 medals,exceeding their total of 9,seven golds in that total.

    Not forgetting our English men/women cricket teams,that have come back well to win after poor starts,the English women footy team that as just Qualified fot the Womens world cup

    And expect big things from the GB rowing team at the world championships which as just started.

    ;-)
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Neil said:

    'On the ground' evidence is usually the best you can get. It just has to be good and it needs someone who knows how to interpret it (as Nick Palmer often says). Raw canvass returns or, worse, bumper sticker / poster counting are completely useless. Being able to compare canvass returns to past experience and having comprehensive data of a large proportion of the ward / constituency is completely different. Having a sneak at how the postal vote opening is going (naughty!) is really good too (but again has to be compared to past performances as postal votes are skewed to a certain type of voter).

    Yes, fair points. Above all any evidence like that has to be objectively assessed and, as you say, tested against a suitable comparative. (In the US elections people sometimes have been badly misled by early results from districts which are not representative of the whole state).

    I agree with your second paragraph. The polls might be wrong, but I'm not betting on it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited August 2014

    Hollywood is really running out of ideas.

    Next they will do another Star Wars movie, or another Star Trek, or Indiana Jones, or Spiderman, or Batman, Die Hard, Rocky, Rambo, ect ect .
    They will do sequels for every 80's and 90's movie, they might even make Titanic II. For God's sake why don't they just make them into a TV series, they can fill in an entire season just with James Bond movies already.


    Hollwood has always remade ideas, or reused them. It might seem particularly bad right now, but it's only a matter of degree, a lot of what people think of as great original movies were not the first to tackle the same idea. If it is a matter of a franchise, I don't even have a problem with doing yet more Star Trek/Wars and the like - they are familiar settings but still new stories and ideas even if they borrow elements and plot points from earlier ones.

    If an idea has lain dormant for 20 odd years, it seems a great idea to revisit in my view - with bigger budgets and better technology, perhaps they can make ideas work which didn't previously, or they can see if they can improve on something that was already great. If they mess it up, we no longer need to fear that the old stuff might be lost forever one day or forgotten, people don't let the old classics die. Othertimes, what was great in the day might for technical quality reasons just not have as much impact today, and reintroducing the idea in a modern take is a good way to introduce it to a new audience (my fav example of this is action/fight scenes in TV and movies - sure there was some great stuff back in the day, but a lot of it was comically terrible, which can make scenes meant to be tense and emotional unintentionally funny now, to the detriment of the overall experience).

    It only really annoys me when there's no reason to reuse an idea creatively, other than copyright games, a la Spiderman.

    There does seem to be a trend of movies into TV series now though - apparently they're looking at doing a Minority Report TV series of all things - which feels like it is more than used to be the case, not that it is entirely new (Terminator, Buffy, Tremors, Stargate etc). I think it's a good idea - you can get much more complex stories and characters out of a series than you can a 2 hour movie. You need a lot of talent and/or charisma to get people to connect to a performance in only 2 hours or so, but some TV stars are far better actors than movie stars, putting in amazing performances with far more depth, but the acclaim rarely reaches such heights.

    Also, I believe there has already been a Titanic 2, even if it was not big budget Hollywood.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1640571/

    Night all.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,561
    Scrapheap - sympathies, can be one of the worst moments in life for the family. Hope it was quick and painless.

    Canvassing - agree with the points below - without comparative data you have very little idea what's going on. As Scott says, without comparative data the Indyref campaigners are working in the dark, unless they're now doing second canvasses.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Scott_P said:

    Neil said:

    Being able to compare canvass returns to past experience and having comprehensive data of a large proportion of the ward / constituency

    And therein lie the problem with indyref canvassing. There is no past experience or historic data.
    But if, for example, 'yes' were getting fantastic returns right across the Borders region I'd be running for the hills if I were a 'no' supporter.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030
    My condolences, scrapheap.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    kle4 said:


    Hollywood is really running out of ideas.

    Next they will do another Star Wars movie, or another Star Trek, or Indiana Jones, or Spiderman, or Batman, Die Hard, Rocky, Rambo, ect ect .
    They will do sequels for every 80's and 90's movie, they might even make Titanic II. For God's sake why don't they just make them into a TV series, they can fill in an entire season just with James Bond movies already.


    Hollwood has always remade ideas, or reused them. It might seem particularly bad right now, but it's only a matter of degree, a lot of what people think of as great original movies were not the first to tackle the same idea. If it is a matter of a franchise, I don't even have a problem with doing yet more Star Trek/Wars and the like - they are familiar settings but still new stories and ideas even if they borrow elements and plot points from earlier ones.

    If an idea has lain dormant for 20 odd years, it seems a great idea to revisit in my view - with bigger budgets and better technology, perhaps they can make ideas work which didn't previously, or they can see if they can improve on something that was already great. If they mess it up, we no longer need to fear that the old stuff might be lost forever one day or forgotten, people don't let the old classics die. Othertimes, what was great in the day might for technical quality reasons just not have as much impact today, and reintroducing the idea in a modern take is a good way to introduce it to a new audience (my fav example of this is action/fight scenes in TV and movies - sure there was some great stuff back in the day, but a lot of it was comically terrible, which can make scenes meant to be tense and emotional unintentionally funny now, to the detriment of the overall experience).

    It only really annoys me when there's no reason to reuse an idea creatively, other than copyright games, a la Spiderman.

    There does seem to be a trend of movies into TV series now though - apparently they're looking at doing a Minority Report TV series of all things - which feels like it is more than used to be the case, not that it is entirely new (Terminator, Buffy, Tremors, Stargate etc). I think it's a good idea - you can get much more complex stories and characters out of a series than you can a 2 hour movie. You need a lot of talent and/or charisma to get people to connect to a performance in only 2 hours or so, but some TV stars are far better actors than movie stars, putting in amazing performances with far more depth, but the acclaim rarely reaches such heights.

    Also, I believe there has already been a Titanic 2, even if it was not big budget Hollywood.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1640571/

    Night all.

    That was supposed to be an ironic joke, but it seems they already did it.
    What would the plot of Titanic III be (assuming they will go for a trilogy)?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    My condolences too, scrapheap.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy As well as the new Star Wars' movie with Harrison Ford etc they are also doing a 'Batman v Superman' movie in 2016 with Henry Cavill and Ben Affleck

    Yikes! What's next? Batman vs Superman vs Spiderman vs X-men vs Iron Man on the set of Star Wars episode 16&3/4 with Darth Vader as referee?
    What a mess.
    No wonder all the good actors and directors are doing TV these days.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    My father passed away this week too.

    Sad times abound - although today's PL league table would have made the old man smile...

    Sorry to hear that
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Anjem Choudary.

    Name familiar? One of those Britain-hating radical Islamists who lives quite comfortably in the UK that we like to boo like a pantomime baddie?

    You'll have something new to boo over soon. He's linked with a certain British members of IS in Syria.

    The other night I said that I fully expect the US or a US ally to announce the death of senior/high profile IS types soon enough. Given the activity of US reconnaissance aircraft over Syria, they certainly are tracking someone. They missed a senior member in recent days by mere yards.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2014
    Y0kel said:

    Anjem Choudary.

    Name familiar? One of those Britain-hating radical Islamists who lives quite comfortably in the UK that we like to boo like a pantomime baddie?

    You'll have something new to boo over soon. He's linked with a certain British members of IS in Syria.

    The other night I said that I fully expect the US or a US ally to announce the death of senior/high profile IS types soon enough. Given the activity of US reconnaissance aircraft over Syria, they certainly are tracking someone. They missed a senior member in recent days by mere yards.

    I don't expect it to be the Chaliph, someone with a phd and who is smart and competent enough to create an Islamic state in the middle of the middle east out of thin air would be extra carefull.

    By the way, is Egypt going to invade Libya?
    (I know the answer is probably no officially, but since all of Libya's neighbours including France and Italy are making noises one has to ask).
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Speedy said:

    Y0kel said:

    Anjem Choudary.

    Name familiar? One of those Britain-hating radical Islamists who lives quite comfortably in the UK that we like to boo like a pantomime baddie?

    You'll have something new to boo over soon. He's linked with a certain British members of IS in Syria.

    The other night I said that I fully expect the US or a US ally to announce the death of senior/high profile IS types soon enough. Given the activity of US reconnaissance aircraft over Syria, they certainly are tracking someone. They missed a senior member in recent days by mere yards.

    I don't expect it to be the Chaliph, someone with a phd and who is smart and competent enough to create an Islamic state in the middle of the middle east out of thin air would be extra carefull.

    By the way, is Egypt going to invade Libya?
    (I know the answer is probably no officially, but since all of Libya's neighbours including France and Italy are making noises one has to ask).
    Bit cloudy. The Egyptians are alleged to have sent the bombers in though the allegations have been running for days. All Egypt will say is that they haven't done anything 'yet'.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Speedy Indeed, but if there are bucks to be made the studios will do it
This discussion has been closed.