politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Results : August 14th 2014

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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Results : August 14th 2014

Knight’s Hill on Lambeth (Lab Defence)
Result: Labour 1,265 (65%), Conservative 248 (13%), Green 230 (12%), UKIP 99 (5%), Liberal Democrat 94 (5%), Non Party Independent 51 (3%)
Labour HOLD

Read the full story here

SquareRoot

There is nothing earth shattering in these results and no info as to swing. I'm off back to the cricket highlights/

peter_from_putney

SquareRoot said:

There is nothing earth shattering in these results and no info as to swing. I'm off back to the cricket highlights/

Square root to square leg!

Smarmeron

"Let them eat sh1t" was the cry!
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/15/official-report-horsemeat-scandal-delayed-new-food-safety-fears

OldKingCole

Grumble.
I'm the treasurer of a small charity, t/o £2500 pa. Our publicity officer put in his expenses, and I wrote him a cheque for £30.
It has been bounced by the bank because I made it out to Mr B Xxxxx, as he is always known, instead of Mr L B Xxxxx. Apparently he has both initials. However, for the last 4 or so years I've made out the cheque to Mr B Xxxxx, but apparently this year we've fallen foul of money laundering regulations.


Straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel comes to mind.

Morris_Dancer

Good evening, everyone.

Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.

In utterly unrelated news, it sounds like early access to a Dragon Age: Inquisition demo will be granted to those who go for EA's new subscription service. Pretty rubbish (I'm not a fan of such services, there are moves afoot to introduce them for books which seem to me as if they'll just shaft authors, although I hope I'm wrong), in my eyes.

Also, that'll be Xbox One (and maybe PC), not PS4, as Sony said the EA subscription is rubbish [I paraphrase].

SandyRentool

London's Kipperphobia continues. London will drag down their national vote share next May, so maybe the LDs can cling on to 3rd? Of course, my SHAVE sits on the fence, with 10% each!

Scott_P

Hugo will rue the day...

My Week: Alex Salmond

Monday
I’m in the car, off for an evening’s campaigning. On the stereo, we are not listening to David Bowie. And now we’ve broken down.

“I should have checked,” says my driver, “but I thought you said we had loads of petrol.”

Yup, I say. Vast amounts. Enough to give Scotland a bright and glorious independent future.

“Right,” says the driver. “Only, the gauge is showing empty. Isn’t it?”

It’s political, I tell him. Only a fool could believe that a dial on a car made in a factory in the Midlands, subsidised by the Tory Westminster elite and their Labour fellow travellers, could possibly be impartial.

“Be that as it may,” says the driver, “there isn’t actually any petrol.”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4177778.ece

SimonStClare

@MD Good evening, everyone.

And good evening to you Mr Dancer.

Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.

Seconded.

In utterly unrelated news.....

er, you lost me after "it sounds like" - was that latin?

MarkHopkins

Scott_P said:

Hugo will rue the day...

My Week: Alex Salmond

...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4177778.ece

We are witnessing the makings of the next PPE course: How not to campaign for a referendum.

Should get a term or so out of all this material.

RobD

Where's Avery? Glorious news for the Chancellor...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11036043/Top-of-the-world-UK-economy-winning-global-growth-race.html

Morris_Dancer

Salveo, Mr. StClaire. Nescio Latinus.

Computer game comes out in November. Some people who are not me will get limited early access.

Whilst mildly irked (I spend ages in a character creator so getting an early fiddle is especially welcome) it does at least mean if they bugger it up [which I doubt, but you never know] I can cancel my pre-order.

GIN1138

I bet South Yorkshire Police is getting a lot of Post-Menopausal Women ringing in to ask what they think they are doing investigating Sir Cliff.

My mother for one is very upset about it all, LOL.

MrJones

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28812313

CCTV of the kid that was shot in America.

Scott_P

MarkHopkins said:

We are witnessing the makings of the next PPE course: How not to campaign for a referendum.

Should get a term or so out of all this material.

Yes, the ways in which they threw away the chance of a generation will provide enough material till their next attempt. Luckily I won't see that one.

Bemused visitors bombarded by the local politics may go home entertained, but the natives do not seem to have been affected. In fact, during the course of the festival there has been a marked swing to the No camp and opinion polls suggest that the Unionists’ lead is now all but unassailable.

Politicians are to blame, of course, not artists, with the leaders of the Nationalist campaign, from Alex Salmond down, tying themselves up in increasingly silly knots in the past weeks, mainly over the currency and the fate of the NHS.

If writers and musicians and comedians and actors have done anything at all to influence the referendum, it is those on the No side who have made the greatest impression. The 200 household names who signed a letter recently, urging Scots to keep Britain together, gave Unionists a welcome thumbs up from a cool constituency and made a group like the National Collective look rather B list.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jennyhjul/100283268/have-scottish-nationalists-taken-over-the-edinburgh-fringe/

HurstLlama

OldKingCole said:

Grumble.
I'm the treasurer of a small charity, t/o £2500 pa. Our publicity officer put in his expenses, and I wrote him a cheque for £30.
It has been bounced by the bank because I made it out to Mr B Xxxxx, as he is always known, instead of Mr L B Xxxxx. Apparently he has both initials. However, for the last 4 or so years I've made out the cheque to Mr B Xxxxx, but apparently this year we've fallen foul of money laundering regulations.


Straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel comes to mind.

These money laundering rules are loopy.

A lady up the road from me has lived in the same house since 1972. Now she wants to sell and move into something smaller, for that she needs a solicitor so she goes to see a local one. Certainly he says but I must make sure you are who you say you are and are not trying to launder money for an international crime syndicate, may I see your passport. Haven't got one, says she, haven't been abroad in donkey's years. Well then your photo driving licence. Haven't got one, never driven a car in my life. Well then two utility bills both less than three months old. Don't get utility bills I do it all on line. Really Mrs. X if you cannot prove who you are I am not sure I can act for you in the sale of your house, never mind the purchase of a new one: that will be £92 for the consultation.

Maybe there was more to it than that but knowing her I doubt it and she does have the bill (which needless to say she is not going to pay).

Scott_P

This will go down a storm in Bute House...

Scottish independence would be a victory for the enemies of freedom and justice, the Australian prime minister has said in the most pointed intervention yet by a foreign leader in the independence debate.

A win by the Yes campaign would be cheered abroad by countries that opposed British values and influence, while an independent Scotland would make little positive impact on the world stage, Tony Abbott told The Times.

“It’s hard to see how the world would be helped by an independent Scotland,”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4178043.ece

GIN1138

Scott_P said:

This will go down a storm in Bute House...

Scottish independence would be a victory for the enemies of freedom and justice, the Australian prime minister has said in the most pointed intervention yet by a foreign leader in the independence debate.

A win by the Yes campaign would be cheered abroad by countries that opposed British values and influence, while an independent Scotland would make little positive impact on the world stage, Tony Abbott told The Times.

“It’s hard to see how the world would be helped by an independent Scotland,”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4178043.ece

He'll rue the day....

Scott_P

GIN1138 said:

He'll rue the day....

Surely the PM of Australia would Roo the day...

HurstLlama

Totally off topic but I need some data and this is a quick and dirty way of finding out an initial feeling.

How much would you fellows pay for the electronic version of a short book which gave you at least six hours of fun reading with some really good belly laughs thrown in and which had a re-read potential?

peter_from_putney

HurstLlama said:

Totally off topic but I need some data and this is a quick and dirty way of finding out an initial feeling.

How much would you fellows pay for the electronic version of a short book which gave you at least six hours of fun reading with some really good belly laughs thrown in and which had a re-read potential?

£3 - i.e. half the new discounted price of the paperback equivalent.

MrJones

peter_from_putney said:

HurstLlama said:

Totally off topic but I need some data and this is a quick and dirty way of finding out an initial feeling.

How much would you fellows pay for the electronic version of a short book which gave you at least six hours of fun reading with some really good belly laughs thrown in and which had a re-read potential?

£3 - i.e. half the new discounted price of the paperback equivalent.

ditto that as an average but maybe a bit less the first time (£2) and a bit more the 2nd or 3rd time (£4) if liked the previous ones.

HurstLlama

Thanks Mr Putney

£3 I am bid more offers please gentlemen. Can be higher can be lower. I am not trying to flog you anything just to get a feel of what the market will decide for such a product.

Tim_B

HurstLlama said:

Totally off topic but I need some data and this is a quick and dirty way of finding out an initial feeling.

How much would you fellows pay for the electronic version of a short book which gave you at least six hours of fun reading with some really good belly laughs thrown in and which had a re-read potential?

You could do worse than check the Kindle section of amazon.co.uk to see the state of the market.

HurstLlama

Mr. B.
I know what kindle says I am interested in what you gentlemen say. So what say you Mr. B.?

MrJones

Tim_B said:

HurstLlama said:

Totally off topic but I need some data and this is a quick and dirty way of finding out an initial feeling.

How much would you fellows pay for the electronic version of a short book which gave you at least six hours of fun reading with some really good belly laughs thrown in and which had a re-read potential?

You could do worse than check the Kindle section of amazon.co.uk to see the state of the market.

I wonder if there's an odd bit of psychology there though - like a minimum price that needs to be charged or people think it can't be any good.

Then again that's probably been tested.

Y0kel

If it was as funny as North Face of Soho for example, I'd pay plenty as that thing is still funny even after reading it 5 times.

There also has to a quality perception thing if its too cheap as well surely.

Tim_B

MrJones said:

Tim_B said:

HurstLlama said:

Totally off topic but I need some data and this is a quick and dirty way of finding out an initial feeling.

How much would you fellows pay for the electronic version of a short book which gave you at least six hours of fun reading with some really good belly laughs thrown in and which had a re-read potential?

You could do worse than check the Kindle section of amazon.co.uk to see the state of the market.

I wonder if there's an odd bit of psychology there though - like a minimum price that needs to be charged or people think it can't be any good.

Then again that's probably been tested.

Amazon in the us has a 'kindle daily deal' which will offer 10-20 books for $1.99 that day only.

corporeal

MrJones said:

Tim_B said:

HurstLlama said:

Totally off topic but I need some data and this is a quick and dirty way of finding out an initial feeling.

How much would you fellows pay for the electronic version of a short book which gave you at least six hours of fun reading with some really good belly laughs thrown in and which had a re-read potential?

You could do worse than check the Kindle section of amazon.co.uk to see the state of the market.

I wonder if there's an odd bit of psychology there though - like a minimum price that needs to be charged or people think it can't be any good.

Then again that's probably been tested.

Iirc it's a long noted feature of pricing/psychology/etc.

Although when I was taught of it the example of perfume was used.

peter_from_putney

Tim_B said:

HurstLlama said:

Totally off topic but I need some data and this is a quick and dirty way of finding out an initial feeling.

How much would you fellows pay for the electronic version of a short book which gave you at least six hours of fun reading with some really good belly laughs thrown in and which had a re-read potential?

You could do worse than check the Kindle section of amazon.co.uk to see the state of the market.

Fair enough, but there are huge variations - from just a few pence through to something close to the hard copy price. Largely dictated by the type of the publication. In this case it's based on comedy, so probably at the discounted end of the market.

MrJones

corporeal said:

MrJones said:

Tim_B said:

HurstLlama said:

Totally off topic but I need some data and this is a quick and dirty way of finding out an initial feeling.

How much would you fellows pay for the electronic version of a short book which gave you at least six hours of fun reading with some really good belly laughs thrown in and which had a re-read potential?

You could do worse than check the Kindle section of amazon.co.uk to see the state of the market.

I wonder if there's an odd bit of psychology there though - like a minimum price that needs to be charged or people think it can't be any good.

Then again that's probably been tested.

Iirc it's a long noted feature of pricing/psychology/etc.

Although when I was taught of it the example of perfume was used.

yeah the minimum price to avoid the "must be rubbish" trap would vary from item to item

HurstLlama

Y0kel said:

If it was as funny as North Face of Soho for example, I'd pay plenty as that thing is still funny even after reading it 5 times.

Great. But how much is plenty, Mr. Yokel. Come on now don't be shy give us a figure. If you like a minimum figure, for an author or book, you haven't tried and a maximum figure fro an aouthor you know or a book you have had a glimpse of. Its cash I am interested in.

Scott_P

Oh yes, this is the image of Scotland the SNP want to promote...

@DaleMcDowell_: Bumped in to @PeteWishart in the co-op tonight. I was buying haggis and I've never felt more patriotic. #voteyes #freedom #haggisfortea

Grandiose

HurstLlama said:

Thanks Mr Putney

£3 I am bid more offers please gentlemen. Can be higher can be lower. I am not trying to flog you anything just to get a feel of what the market will decide for such a product.

At least. Anything under that immediately indicates that it's not much good, so don't undersell it.

Toms

The kindle police will possibly chalk an X on my door tonight, but I would say a "plugged nickel".

HurstLlama

Grandiose said:

HurstLlama said:

Thanks Mr Putney

£3 I am bid more offers please gentlemen. Can be higher can be lower. I am not trying to flog you anything just to get a feel of what the market will decide for such a product.

At least. Anything under that immediately indicates that it's not much good, so don't undersell it.

Fair enough, but what would you pay? Shall I put you down for three quid?

Y0kel

HurstLlama said:

Y0kel said:

If it was as funny as North Face of Soho for example, I'd pay plenty as that thing is still funny even after reading it 5 times.

Great. But how much is plenty, Mr. Yokel. Come on now don't be shy give us a figure. If you like a minimum figure, for an author or book, you haven't tried and a maximum figure fro an aouthor you know or a book you have had a glimpse of. Its cash I am interested in.

If its what I think I know will be good or the subject matter interests I'll easily do a tenner plus. If I don't, half that.

HurstLlama

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Y0kel

HurstLlama said:

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Only problem with electronic over physical is you can't burn it with the joy of setting fire to something. Clicking delete just offers no solace if the product is crap....

TwistedFireStopper

HurstLlama said:

Y0kel said:

If it was as funny as North Face of Soho for example, I'd pay plenty as that thing is still funny even after reading it 5 times.

Great. But how much is plenty, Mr. Yokel. Come on now don't be shy give us a figure. If you like a minimum figure, for an author or book, you haven't tried and a maximum figure fro an aouthor you know or a book you have had a glimpse of. Its cash I am interested in.

I'm reluctant to pay much more than a fiver from Amazon for kindle content. It grips my s#!t that the publisher can want almost as much for a download as a hard back copy.

HurstLlama

Y0kel said:

HurstLlama said:

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Only problem with electronic over physical is you can't burn it with the joy of setting fire to something. Clicking delete just offers no solace if the product is crap....

Very true, but there is something deep in my soul that recoils from actually burning a book. I don't think I could ever do it. I might not like what the book contains, but to burn one - it would be like setting fire to the author's soul. Couldn't do it. The charity shop or the delete key is drastic enough.

HurstLlama

A fiver from you, Mr. Stopper, thank you. Is that a general maximum or for the type of book I described?

Sean_F

HurstLlama said:

Y0kel said:

HurstLlama said:

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Only problem with electronic over physical is you can't burn it with the joy of setting fire to something. Clicking delete just offers no solace if the product is crap....

Very true, but there is something deep in my soul that recoils from actually burning a book. I don't think I could ever do it. I might not like what the book contains, but to burn one - it would be like setting fire to the author's soul. Couldn't do it. The charity shop or the delete key is drastic enough.

There are, however, books that deserve to be burnt. Anything by Dan Brown, Jackie Collins, or Sidney Sheldon, for example.

DavidL

Two holds? Damn. I was expecting something so much more dramatic.

Sunil_Prasannan

Sean_F said:

HurstLlama said:

Y0kel said:

HurstLlama said:

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Only problem with electronic over physical is you can't burn it with the joy of setting fire to something. Clicking delete just offers no solace if the product is crap....

Very true, but there is something deep in my soul that recoils from actually burning a book. I don't think I could ever do it. I might not like what the book contains, but to burn one - it would be like setting fire to the author's soul. Couldn't do it. The charity shop or the delete key is drastic enough.

There are, however, books that deserve to be burnt. Anything by Dan Brown, Jackie Collins, or Sidney Sheldon, for example.

Didn't the Nazis indulge in a bit of book-burning?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings

Tim_B

There's always the "You can buy better but you can't pay more." approach :-)

HurstLlama

Sean_F said:

HurstLlama said:

Y0kel said:

HurstLlama said:

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Only problem with electronic over physical is you can't burn it with the joy of setting fire to something. Clicking delete just offers no solace if the product is crap....

Very true, but there is something deep in my soul that recoils from actually burning a book. I don't think I could ever do it. I might not like what the book contains, but to burn one - it would be like setting fire to the author's soul. Couldn't do it. The charity shop or the delete key is drastic enough.

There are, however, books that deserve to be burnt. Anything by Dan Brown, Jackie Collins, or Sidney Sheldon, for example.

There are people who deserve to hang too, but I don't support capital punishment.

Now come on Mr. F, the electronic version of a short book which gave you at least six hours of fun reading with some really good belly laughs thrown in and which had a re-read potential. How much would you pay for that?

Sunil_Prasannan

HurstLlama said:

Sean_F said:

HurstLlama said:

Y0kel said:

HurstLlama said:

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Only problem with electronic over physical is you can't burn it with the joy of setting fire to something. Clicking delete just offers no solace if the product is crap....

Very true, but there is something deep in my soul that recoils from actually burning a book. I don't think I could ever do it. I might not like what the book contains, but to burn one - it would be like setting fire to the author's soul. Couldn't do it. The charity shop or the delete key is drastic enough.

There are, however, books that deserve to be burnt. Anything by Dan Brown, Jackie Collins, or Sidney Sheldon, for example.

There are people who deserve to hang too, but I don't support capital punishment.

Now come on Mr. F, the electronic version of a short book which gave you at least six hours of fun reading with some really good belly laughs thrown in and which had a re-read potential. How much would you pay for that?

5 quid, Mr Llama
or if you prefer 500 million BitCamerons.

TwistedFireStopper

HurstLlama said:

A fiver from you, Mr. Stopper, thank you. Is that a general maximum or for the type of book I described?

That's just my general maximum, Mr HL. I'm all for authors making a living, and publishers taking their cut, but a tenner to download something like the latest Bernard Cornwell is downright daylight robbery, when they were offering the paperback at the same price.

Charles

HurstLlama said:

Really Mrs. X if you cannot prove who you are I am not sure I can act for you in the sale of your house, never mind the purchase of a new one: that will be £92 for the consultation.

Maybe there was more to it than that but knowing her I doubt it and she does have the bill (which needless to say she is not going to pay).

I'm shocked that an upstanding pillar of the community, like a local solicitor, would consider taking money (thereby creating a client relationship) from somebody about whose identity he was not fully satisfied...

(But have you tried asking a billionaire how much he spends on his haircuts?)

Charles

HurstLlama said:

Totally off topic but I need some data and this is a quick and dirty way of finding out an initial feeling.

How much would you fellows pay for the electronic version of a short book which gave you at least six hours of fun reading with some really good belly laughs thrown in and which had a re-read potential?

6 hours entertainment - assuming you are never going to read it again - is probably worth the price of a movie.

So about £10

HurstLlama

I am obliged Cap'n doc.

We seem to have a consensus, so far, spread of between £2 and £5. Come along, gents, those who are reading this and haven't put in their bid, please do so.

I promise I am not, nor ever will, try and flog you anything I just want your view. How much would you pay for six hours reading entertainment with belly laughs built in, plus a re-read potential?

Charles

Sean_F said:

HurstLlama said:

Y0kel said:

HurstLlama said:

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Only problem with electronic over physical is you can't burn it with the joy of setting fire to something. Clicking delete just offers no solace if the product is crap....

Very true, but there is something deep in my soul that recoils from actually burning a book. I don't think I could ever do it. I might not like what the book contains, but to burn one - it would be like setting fire to the author's soul. Couldn't do it. The charity shop or the delete key is drastic enough.

There are, however, books that deserve to be burnt. Anything by Dan Brown, Jackie Collins, or Sidney Sheldon, for example.

Can you send me any Jackie Collins you have?

When the National Trust p1sses us off we use them to line the shelves in the antechamber to the (quite well known) Library in one of their houses

Sean_F

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Sean_F said:

HurstLlama said:

Y0kel said:

HurstLlama said:

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Only problem with electronic over physical is you can't burn it with the joy of setting fire to something. Clicking delete just offers no solace if the product is crap....

Very true, but there is something deep in my soul that recoils from actually burning a book. I don't think I could ever do it. I might not like what the book contains, but to burn one - it would be like setting fire to the author's soul. Couldn't do it. The charity shop or the delete key is drastic enough.

There are, however, books that deserve to be burnt. Anything by Dan Brown, Jackie Collins, or Sidney Sheldon, for example.

Didn't the Nazis indulge in a bit of book-burning?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings

The principle wasn't wrong, even if they aimed at the wrong targets.

HurstLlama

Mr. Stopper, I agree, I'll put you down for a fiver.

Mr. Charles, thanks for that bid of a tenner (interesting that you compared six hours of reading entertainment with maybe two hours of a movie), something for me to think about, there. Your point about the solicitor I'll leave for the moment of you don't mind - I want to try and get as many answers to my question as I can.

So, faites vos jeux, mesdames et messieur. Or rather please give me your views not your bets.

Scott_P

@thetimes: Tomorrow's front page in Scotland: Yes vote is 'threat to freedom' #scotpapers http://t.co/rJhR0LZuVZ

Charles

HurstLlama said:

Mr. Stopper, I agree, I'll put you down for a fiver.

Mr. Charles, thanks for that bid of a tenner (interesting that you compared six hours of reading entertainment with maybe two hours of a movie), something for me to think about, there. Your point about the solicitor I'll leave for the moment of you don't mind - I want to try and get as many answers to my question as I can.

So, faites vos jeux, mesdames et messieur. Or rather please give me your views not your bets.

Problem I have is that I don't buy electronic books - I would rather pay £25 for a nice hardback, even if I get the same entertainment out of it.

So I was trying to adjust for your question.

But I also think that movies are overpriced. However I only paid £2.50 to go and see Guardians of the Galaxy as Tesco are doing a special offer. And even that was £2.50 wasted...

Charles

SeanT said:

Charles said:

Sean_F said:

HurstLlama said:

Y0kel said:

HurstLlama said:

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Only problem with electronic over physical is you can't burn it with the joy of setting fire to something. Clicking delete just offers no solace if the product is crap....

Very true, but there is something deep in my soul that recoils from actually burning a book. I don't think I could ever do it. I might not like what the book contains, but to burn one - it would be like setting fire to the author's soul. Couldn't do it. The charity shop or the delete key is drastic enough.

There are, however, books that deserve to be burnt. Anything by Dan Brown, Jackie Collins, or Sidney Sheldon, for example.

Can you send me any Jackie Collins you have?

When the National Trust p1sses us off we use them to line the shelves in the antechamber to the (quite well known) Library in one of their houses

Speaking as a *cough* pro I'd like to defend Dan Brown here. His prose is turgid, his dialogue is ludicrous, his characterisation pedestrian - but his plotting in the Da Vinci Code is absolutely brilliant. A masterpiece of the genre. Every chapter provides a compelling twist, and a delicious cliff hanger.

If anyone thinks that it is easy to do, I suggest they try writing such a book themselves, and thereby earn £20m.

Plotting is sneered at by the literati, but narrative is the melody of writing - it's what most people want. A Damn Good Story. Many who sneer at Brown, especially literary novelists, are simply jealous of his ability to produce a good tune.

I'd completely agree. I'm not Barbara Cartland's target market, but she served that market extremely effectively.

My point was more to do with intellectual snobbery... (and how to irritate the National Trust immensely, should every feel the need to do so)

Sean_F

SeanT said:

Charles said:

Sean_F said:

HurstLlama said:

Y0kel said:

HurstLlama said:

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Only problem with electronic over physical is you can't burn it with the joy of setting fire to something. Clicking delete just offers no solace if the product is crap....

Very true, but there is something deep in my soul that recoils from actually burning a book. I don't think I could ever do it. I might not like what the book contains, but to burn one - it would be like setting fire to the author's soul. Couldn't do it. The charity shop or the delete key is drastic enough.

There are, however, books that deserve to be burnt. Anything by Dan Brown, Jackie Collins, or Sidney Sheldon, for example.

Can you send me any Jackie Collins you have?

When the National Trust p1sses us off we use them to line the shelves in the antechamber to the (quite well known) Library in one of their houses

Speaking as a *cough* pro I'd like to defend Dan Brown here. His prose is turgid, his dialogue is ludicrous, his characterisation pedestrian - but his plotting in the Da Vinci Code is absolutely brilliant. A masterpiece of the genre. Every chapter provides a compelling twist, and a delicious cliff hanger.

If anyone thinks that it is easy to do, I suggest they try writing such a book themselves, and thereby earn £20m.

Plotting is sneered at by the literati, but narrative is the melody of writing - it's what most people want. A Damn Good Story. Many who sneer at Brown, especially literary novelists, are simply jealous of his ability to produce a good tune.

Good luck to him. But, IMHO, you're a good plotter (up to the standard of Bernard Cornwell, Joe Abercrombie, David Gemmell). He simply isn't.

HurstLlama

SeanT said:

Charles said:

Sean_F said:

HurstLlama said:

Y0kel said:

HurstLlama said:

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Only problem with electronic over physical is you can't burn it with the joy of setting fire to something. Clicking delete just offers no solace if the product is crap....

Very true, but there is something deep in my soul that recoils from actually burning a book. I don't think I could ever do it. I might not like what the book contains, but to burn one - it would be like setting fire to the author's soul. Couldn't do it. The charity shop or the delete key is drastic enough.

There are, however, books that deserve to be burnt. Anything by Dan Brown, Jackie Collins, or Sidney Sheldon, for example.

Can you send me any Jackie Collins you have?

When the National Trust p1sses us off we use them to line the shelves in the antechamber to the (quite well known) Library in one of their houses

Speaking as a *cough* pro I'd like to defend Dan Brown here. His prose is turgid, his dialogue is ludicrous, his characterisation pedestrian - but his plotting in the Da Vinci Code is absolutely brilliant. A masterpiece of the genre. Every chapter provides a compelling twist, and a delicious cliff hanger.

If anyone thinks that it is easy to do, I suggest they try writing such a book themselves, and thereby earn £20m.

Plotting is sneered at by the literati, but narrative is the melody of writing - it's what most people want. A Damn Good Story. Many who sneer at Brown, especially literary novelists, are simply jealous of his ability to produce a good tune.

I agree, Mr. T., I read the first two of Dan Brown's books and found them, especially the first, page turners. Then I was given the third and couldn't be arsed to even open it - it went into the charity sack unread. The man has a skill and its made him a lot of money, but at the end of the day his books aren't very good. HAs anyone ever re-read a Dan Brown who wasn't paid to do so.

Anyway, I don't think you have contributed to my cheap and dirty on-line survey and yet you are probably a great judge.

The question is, how much would you be prepared to pay for an electronic version of a book that gave you about six hours reading entertainment with belly laughs built in, plus a re-read potential?

TwistedFireStopper

SeanT said:

Sean_F said:

SeanT said:

Charles said:

Sean_F said:

HurstLlama said:

Y0kel said:

HurstLlama said:

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Only problem with electronic over physical is you can't burn it with the joy of setting fire to something. Clicking delete just offers no solace if the product is crap....

Very true, but there is something deep in my soul that recoils from actually burning a book. I don't think I could ever do it. I might not like what the book contains, but to burn one - it would be like setting fire to the author's soul. Couldn't do it. The charity shop or the delete key is drastic enough.

There are, however, books that deserve to be burnt. Anything by Dan Brown, Jackie Collins, or Sidney Sheldon, for example.

Can you send me any Jackie Collins you have?

When the National Trust p1sses us off we use them to line the shelves in the antechamber to the (quite well known) Library in one of their houses

Speaking as a *cough* pro I'd like to defend Dan Brown here. His prose is turgid, his dialogue is ludicrous, his characterisation pedestrian - but his plotting in the Da Vinci Code is absolutely brilliant. A masterpiece of the genre. Every chapter provides a compelling twist, and a delicious cliff hanger.

If anyone thinks that it is easy to do, I suggest they try writing such a book themselves, and thereby earn £20m.

Plotting is sneered at by the literati, but narrative is the melody of writing - it's what most people want. A Damn Good Story. Many who sneer at Brown, especially literary novelists, are simply jealous of his ability to produce a good tune.

Good luck to him. But, IMHO, you're a good plotter (up to the standard of Bernard Cornwell, Joe Abercrombie, David Gemmell). He simply isn't.

Fair enough. Chacun a son gout, and sincere thanks for the compliment!

(I hope you like my next one - it is very different....)

How do you see the rise of ebooks-and piracy-impacting on superstar authors?

david_herdson

SeanT said:

Hurst Llama:

"The man has a skill and its made him a lot of money, but at the end of the day his books aren't very good."

You see, this is a totally ludicrous statement.

It's like saying "he worked out Relativity but Einstein wasn't a very good scientist", or "he did all those pretty symphonies but Mozart wasn't an accomplished composer"

The ultimate test of a novel is that it should be readable and enjoyable and agreeably diverting, that it should tell a good story.

Yes, ideally, it can give us insight into the human condition, or make us laugh at nice jokes, or intellectually admire well-turned sentences, but all of these are subsidiary to the story. A good story lasts for ever. Pride and Prejudice, Oliver Twist, Tess of the D'Urbevilles.

All of these are great novels, but they are fundamentally great novels because they have fantastic stories at the heart, e.g. take away the story from, say, Pride and Prejudice, and all you have is wit and nice prose and some telling social observation, but these alone do not stir the heart.

Telling a great story is key (the exceptions like Proust or Ulysses prove the rule), and Dan Brown tells a great story in The Da Vinci Code. It's not a masterpiece for the ages, but it is a notably successful book. It does what it attempts to do, very very well.

Incidentally this stupid middlebrow Radio 4 sneering about books-with-good-plots is not a new thing: I've been researching the life and work of Daphne du Maurier of late, and apparently nearly all her books were slammed by the critics as pulp fiction when she wrote them, even and especially Rebecca. Yet now Rebecca is commonly regarded as a masterpiece (which it is - an exceptionally clever book with a dazzlingly clever plot).

Fin.

The sniffiness is because Dan Brown's easy reading, which critics don't like. It's almost as if literature should only be for the elite; people like them. Popularity cannot equal quality.

In a sense, they're right - but only in one sense. You can't write something that probes deep into the human soul and condition, revealing truths about ourselves, and do so in beautiful writing, without making the reader pay attention and think: and that asks more of the reader than many will be prepared to give. On the other hand, a decent TV adaptation may do it for them.

ps. I'm 30000 words into a series of counterfactuals I'm writing. Know any good publishers?

AndyJS

For me, the most enjoyable books to read are those written by Agatha Christie and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. It might be embarrassing to say so, but that's just how it is. Not very challenging on an intellectual level of course.

david_herdson

HurstLlama said:

Y0kel said:

HurstLlama said:

Thanks, Mr Yokel, I'll put you down for a fiver if I may.

Only problem with electronic over physical is you can't burn it with the joy of setting fire to something. Clicking delete just offers no solace if the product is crap....

Very true, but there is something deep in my soul that recoils from actually burning a book. I don't think I could ever do it. I might not like what the book contains, but to burn one - it would be like setting fire to the author's soul. Couldn't do it. The charity shop or the delete key is drastic enough.

I know what you mean. However, I did happily once consign Paxman's 'The Political Animal' to the compost heap, as that was all it was fit for. He completely failed to understand politicians, which was something of a flaw. (He regarded them as regarding themselves as in a branch of the entertainment industry, which few do enthusiastically - though he may have unwittingly given an insight into how he sees his role in the political process).

Flightpath

If 41% of labour voters are dissatisfied with Miliband then there is some prospect of some of them switching to the tories. The flock who fled to the LDs and flew back were the lefty peacenick ones and Miliband has been playing to that gallery. But their is a strand who vote Labour whon ae not benfit dependent or trade unionist blue collar and who (and I know this is hard to believe) are intelligent enough to support sound government.

Flightpath

I suppose I can blame my bifocals, but really it is down to a tiny keyboard. I'm sorry but my typing is terrible. I cannot see how to edit.