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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It’s going to be challenging for Cameron to appeal to both

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited May 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It’s going to be challenging for Cameron to appeal to both 2010 LDs and Ukip supporters at the same time

There are two columns, I would suggest, you should focus on: the views of Ukip supporters and those of 2010 LDs. These, of course, are where most the allegiance shifting has been taking place and the level of what these electors do will more than anything determine the outcome.

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Comments

  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    They'll probably just keep blundering along in no man's land.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,662
    If you bet on Ireland at Eurovision, Paddy Power is apparently refunding you....
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/paddy-power-to-refund-all-bets-on-irelands-eurovision-entry-594878.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    PR exercise....
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 18,411
    He has to choose. He is more successful when he steers to the left. Tacking right just makes him look shifty. Perhaps he should challenge the right to put up or shut up.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    Above is a fascinating chart showing the issues that those sampled by YouGov said would influence their vote at the next general election.

    How you know you focus too much on politics: you include the word fascinating in the above sentence. And other people agree.

    It does seem a bit of a fool's errand to abandon appealing to the centre to try and chase the right. Ok, the centre appeal did not secure them a majority, but with the same leader in place a tack to the right will not be believed, so it's just losing voters to no gain.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    edited May 2013
    Jonathan said:

    He has to choose. He is more successful when he steers to the left. Tacking right just makes him look shifty. Perhaps he should challenge the right to put up or shut up.

    They want to be UKIP so badly I don't think they respond well to such a challenge. Whenever someone does try to play it tough with the Torykippers they are rebuffed or rebuked, and Cameron's not going to do so on his own.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 18,411
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    He has to choose. He is more successful when he steers to the left. Tacking right just makes him look shifty. Perhaps he should challenge the right to put up or shut up.

    They want to be UKIP so badly I don't think they respond well to such a challenge. Whenever someone does try to play it tough with the Torykippers they are rebuffed or rebuked, and Cameron's not going to do so on his own.

    Let them stand for the leadership and lose. If necessary, Cam should let them go to UKIP. They're not exactly adding any value at the moment. And they will be defeated at the GE.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    Interesting that UKIP voters are so less concerned about the economy than the others though. And why do LDs care so much more about Transport? And have 4x as much 'others'?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,352
    Jonathan said:

    He has to choose. He is more successful when he steers to the left. Tacking right just makes him look shifty. Perhaps he should challenge the right to put up or shut up.

    Really? As I recall the last time he substantially closed the gap on Labour was when he did his phoney hard man act with the EU. It may have been, in hindsight, a pointless stand but the reaction of the polls was very clear. Cameron's poll standings go up when he is more Eurosceptic.
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    The economy and immigration would be a good place to start. Good progress on both but who knows whether it will be enough
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    He has to choose. He is more successful when he steers to the left. Tacking right just makes him look shifty. Perhaps he should challenge the right to put up or shut up.

    They want to be UKIP so badly I don't think they respond well to such a challenge. Whenever someone does try to play it tough with the Torykippers they are rebuffed or rebuked, and Cameron's not going to do so on his own.

    Let them stand for the leadership and lose. If necessary, Cam should let them go to UKIP. They're not exactly adding any value at the moment. And they will be defeated at the GE.

    I think they feel that the hole they are digging for themselves is so important it's worth shooting themselves in the foot at the same time.

  • JohnWheatleyJohnWheatley Posts: 140
    For the first time since the demise of Thatcher the right thinks it has history on its side. The maneuvering of Gove and Hammond tends to reinforce their view
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135

    Jonathan said:

    He has to choose. He is more successful when he steers to the left. Tacking right just makes him look shifty. Perhaps he should challenge the right to put up or shut up.

    Really? As I recall the last time he substantially closed the gap on Labour was when he did his phoney hard man act with the EU. It may have been, in hindsight, a pointless stand but the reaction of the polls was very clear. Cameron's poll standings go up when he is more Eurosceptic.
    Those wishing Cameron to tack to the right are not only incensed about the EU question - they will not be satisfied if that is the only thing he does. They want him to go right on every issue.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,235
    Great publicity and it is only costing them 15000 euros.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,352
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    He has to choose. He is more successful when he steers to the left. Tacking right just makes him look shifty. Perhaps he should challenge the right to put up or shut up.

    Really? As I recall the last time he substantially closed the gap on Labour was when he did his phoney hard man act with the EU. It may have been, in hindsight, a pointless stand but the reaction of the polls was very clear. Cameron's poll standings go up when he is more Eurosceptic.
    Those wishing Cameron to tack to the right are not only incensed about the EU question - they will not be satisfied if that is the only thing he does. They want him to go right on every issue.
    You are talking about the party and MPs, I am talking about the voters. We know that voters generally back gay marriage and that the Tory right are out of tune on this. We also know they overwhelming back a far looser relationship with the EU - which the Tory right are very much more in line with. Facing down his MPs over gay marriage whilst making substantive moves on the EU question would, if past polling is anything to go on, much improve his position.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Have I missed anything? 89 episodes of Prison Break have been largely hugely enjoyable. S1 & S2 were totally gripping - S3 very good, S4 - less so.

    Give it a solid 8.5/10 overall and 9.5/10 for S1 & 2. Why hasn't anyone mentioned this series before?!

    Trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL9zLctDJaU
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    If the void that is Labour continues to spiral down and the economy improves at a somewhat better rate than expected then Cameron might turn out to be a lucky general.

    The punters may determine to stay with matron, turnout in their droves and give Cameron something close to the Major like result of 1992.

    One thing is sure .... and I think I may have noted this before but :

    Ed Miliband will never be Prime Minister.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    He has to choose. He is more successful when he steers to the left. Tacking right just makes him look shifty. Perhaps he should challenge the right to put up or shut up.

    Really? As I recall the last time he substantially closed the gap on Labour was when he did his phoney hard man act with the EU. It may have been, in hindsight, a pointless stand but the reaction of the polls was very clear. Cameron's poll standings go up when he is more Eurosceptic.
    Those wishing Cameron to tack to the right are not only incensed about the EU question - they will not be satisfied if that is the only thing he does. They want him to go right on every issue.
    You are talking about the party and MPs, I am talking about the voters. We know that voters generally back gay marriage and that the Tory right are out of tune on this. We also know they overwhelming back a far looser relationship with the EU - which the Tory right are very much more in line with. Facing down his MPs over gay marriage whilst making substantive moves on the EU question would, if past polling is anything to go on, much improve his position.
    The original comment from Jonathan talked about tacking right in a general sense, and you then talked only about tacking right in an EU sense - therefore my comment stands, as I was reiterating the point that tacking right generally is far less likely to work with the voters, whereas yours suggested in the absence of clarification that since tacking right on the EU would work no the public, it would do so generally.

  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    The Tories need to cobble together enough votes to keep Miliband out of Downing Steet. Definitely possible as Ed is crap after all. A majority is almost impossible for anyone. Then this pathetic structure of centralised government built on dodgy FPTP can be dismantled, none of those useless referendums, impose power on mayors and local councils.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,969
    UKIP do care about education, but their policy is basically bring back grammar schools and education vouchers. Cameron clearly has to win back his base first, which means winning back 2010 Tories now voting UKIP. He does not need to win a majority of 2010 LDs, many of whom were left-leaning, disliked Blair and New Labour but have now returned to Labour. Once he has restored his base though he needs to win just enough moderates who voted for Clegg in 2010 and maybe Blair from 1997-2005 to be able to win a majority!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It does look as if Dave has no choice but to tack right, or to be replaced by someone who will. It is where most of his party is.

    As there is not an insignificant minority of pro europe right wingers, and orange bookers as well as Blairites put off by the Balls agenda, this may be the making of a LibDem recovery.

    I will not be voting Tory if they become BOO as a policy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    edited May 2013
    Plato said:

    Have I missed anything? 89 episodes of Prison Break have been largely hugely enjoyable. S1 & S2 were totally gripping - S3 very good, S4 - less so.

    Give it a solid 8.5/10 overall and 9.5/10 for S1 & 2. Why hasn't anyone mentioned this series before?!

    Because it was so gloriously silly people feel embarrased to mention it. I never got through S3 and S4 until recently, as the inherent silliness just got too much, but S1 and S2 were great fun, and Fitchner is always an entertaining actor - remember him from the opening scene of the Dark Knight?

    Although it seems odd at the start of S2 that the escape of the main characters was such big news on the same day that the president of the united states died in strange circumstances!

    The only thing you've missed is anti-Tories (and I include UKIPers in that) salivating over minor comments in a most unseemly fashion.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    OK, I have to ask, what is BOO? I don't wish to cheat and go to google, but I can't figure it out.
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 658
    better off out?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135

    better off out?

    Ah, that would make sense. Thanks. I get getting to something like 'Britain Out Of...' and then whatever anyone would want after it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,776
    Probably last in a long list of responders, but BOO = Better Off Out.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    OK, I have to ask, what is BOO? I don't wish to cheat and go to google, but I can't figure it out.

    Better Off Out.

    In the Euros next year there must be parties in almost all of the other countries that recognise that the current EU structures are not working well.

    If ever there was a time for constructive engagement to get change in europe, it is next years elections. Ukippers insulting our natural political allies in the EU parliament is not the way to go.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,969
    Tim - Tory voters oppose gay marriage though, which is why many have defected to UKIP, the gay marriage majority is made up mainly of Labour and LD voters most of whom would never vote Tory anyway
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    kle4 said:

    Plato said:

    Have I missed anything? 89 episodes of Prison Break have been largely hugely enjoyable. S1 & S2 were totally gripping - S3 very good, S4 - less so.

    Give it a solid 8.5/10 overall and 9.5/10 for S1 & 2. Why hasn't anyone mentioned this series before?!

    The only thing you've missed is anti-Tories (and I include UKIPers in that) salivating over minor comments in a most unseemly fashion.
    Pish. The big news was UKIP getting 20% in an Opinium poll! The revolution is still on track. :-)

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/20/labour-ukip-poll
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    @kle4

    Ah ha! Indeed, Mr Fitchner is superb - I find him total eye candy myself in a sort of cruel/character actor way, unfortunately Mr Miller is gay so hey-ho. Why Dominic Purcell gets cast in anything is beyond me - he's so 1-D as an actor, but would make a great action figure...

    Mr Knepper is excellent as T-Bagge - did you see him in Cult? Shame it got cancelled - it had potential for a 18-30 serial. When cobblers like Hannibal remains on - the mind of the TV exec is beyond me, its total pants for something they trailed so heavily in advance.

    I'm about to start on Eureka and Supernatural - they scored highly on IMDb...

    EDIT - FFS, I've just started watching Assault on Wall St and its got bloody Dominic Purcell in it... there is no avoiding this bloke...

    EDIT 2 - Golly, AoWSt is Margin Call plot but crappy dialogue and I'm only 5 mins in. I doubt I'll endure 15mins at this rate...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    HYUFD said:

    Tim - Tory voters oppose gay marriage though, which is why many have defected to UKIP, the gay marriage majority is made up mainly of Labour and LD voters most of whom would never vote Tory anyway

    The numbers on the Conservative side are close with "No" edging it by only a few points.

    I also wonder if gay marriage is such a driver of the Ukip rise. Cameron has vocally supported the measure for several years whilst Ukip were still only supported by Colonel Darcy Gruff-Featherstone-Pew, his cocker spaniel named Goebbels and several of the Much Wallop in the Hedges bearded ladies barber shop choir.

  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2013
    FPT Morris - I think there's a chance we'll never find out. Consider this scenario;

    Suppose what swivelgate boils down to is an on-the-record / off-the-record cock-up between the person involved (X) & times/telegraph journalists who were expected to be friendly.

    It's likely that X actively wanted to brief the media & feed a pro-dave narrative, but retain deniability. All those involved probably agreed the phrases which could be used to describe the source.

    When X realises they've created a sh1tstorm, they panic. X's name leaks out. X ups the stakes & denies outright. X gambles that that no-one has hard evidence of the conversation. Journo's stick by the story. As far as they're concerned, they were given permission to print.

    A civil servant who was present when the comments were made develops short-term amnesia.

    A legal case would be costly & difficult to prove.

    Stalemate.

    Dave takes the hit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    edited May 2013
    @Plato

    I can speak highly of both, at least for the first 3-4 seasons (I vary on them thereafter, and haven't seen Supernatural since S5). Eureka is some goofy, sometimes sentimental, fun (although note that one of the main characters in the pilot episode was replaced by a new, far better character for the season proper), and Supernatural had some interesting and exciting ideas, even if it focuses a bit much on angsty drama at times (with the occasional breather episode of wackiness), especially as it went on.

    And of course Supernatural is stocked full of eye candy for the ladies or gay men. It was one of those shows that like Hercules seemed to try and 'make up' for its oiled up male leads by having every female of the week character show up and be noticably buxom (speaking of Hercules, Legend of the Seeker was good fun in the same vein, a less preachy adaptation of the Sword of Truth book series).

    Never got around to Cult - I tend to wait to see if a series will last before picking it up, so I won't get disappointed - see Flashforward, Last Resort, Terra Nova for just three.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    HYUFD said:

    Tim - Tory voters oppose gay marriage though, which is why many have defected to UKIP, the gay marriage majority is made up mainly of Labour and LD voters most of whom would never vote Tory anyway

    I don't think you'll find many traditional Labour working class supporting gay marriage either, and therein lies the rub. These are the very labour voters leaking to UKIP in droves. UKIP appears to attract not just Tory voters.

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Plato said:

    Have I missed anything? 89 episodes of Prison Break have been largely hugely enjoyable. S1 & S2 were totally gripping - S3 very good, S4 - less so.

    Give it a solid 8.5/10 overall and 9.5/10 for S1 & 2. Why hasn't anyone mentioned this series before?!

    Trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL9zLctDJaU

    No bewbs
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Plato said:

    @kle4

    Ah ha! Indeed, Mr Fitchner is superb - I find him total eye candy myself in a sort of cruel/character actor way, unfortunately Mr Miller is gay so hey-ho. Why Dominic Purcell gets cast in anything is beyond me - he's so 1-D as an actor, but would make a great action figure...

    Mr Knepper is excellent as T-Bagge - did you see him in Cult? Shame it got cancelled - it had potential for a 18-30 serial. When cobblers like Hannibal remains on - the mind of the TV exec is beyond me, its total pants for something they trailed so heavily in advance.

    I'm about to start on Eureka and Supernatural - they scored highly on IMDb...

    EDIT - FFS, I've just started watching Assault on Wall St and its got bloody Dominic Purcell in it... there is no avoiding this bloke...

    Ah ! Plato, you are back ?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    "...UKIP supporters are much more likely to be concerned about immigration and Europe as those who voted for Nick Clegg’s party 3 years ago."

    Immigration is the third most important item for 2010 LD voters too. Europe is the fifth.

    For all voters immigration is the second most important item. And today's ICM/Sunday Telegraph found 44% wanting an immediate in/out referendum.

    These are not topics that any party would want to ignore.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    We can do what the LibDems do, say one thing where we want to regain defectors to UKIP and something completely different in the south-west where we want ex-LibDem voters. The LibDems have done it and got away with it for decades. Call me cynical or what!

    Truth is the polls are so volatile and Labour's lead so fragile that if Plan A works sufficiently well, Tory minded voters will vote Tory when it matters and those who want to avoid a Milibland administration will hold their noses and vote "anyone but Labour".
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    @ tim

    "The Tories are managing to make the Lib Dems look like the mature party of govt, just enjoy the comedy"

    This is a serious point. Over the last six months, the Lib Dems have been below the radar and have improved their position.

    I think it goes back to the Clegg veto on boundary changes. They suddenly realised that they had a pair after all !
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    MikeK said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim - Tory voters oppose gay marriage though, which is why many have defected to UKIP, the gay marriage majority is made up mainly of Labour and LD voters most of whom would never vote Tory anyway

    I don't think you'll find many traditional Labour working class supporting gay marriage either, and therein lies the rub. These are the very labour voters leaking to UKIP in droves. UKIP appears to attract not just Tory voters.

    I do wonder how long that will remain true, given certain Tories seeking official pacts with UKIP, and UKIP still appearing to present as Tory-Hard. At some point if the Tories chase after UKIP too much will it put off formerly Labour voters, or at voters in some of these bastions so tribal that all they really want is an alternative that is not the Tories in order to switch from Labour, even if the Tories are trying to be indistinguishable from UKIP?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    kle4 said:

    Interesting that UKIP voters are so less concerned about the economy than the others though.

    It's tied for 2nd place in their priorities, and immigration can be considered an economic issue.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    kle4 said:

    @Plato

    And of course Supernatural is stocked full of eye candy for the ladies or gay men. It was one of those shows that like Hercules seemed to try and 'make up' for its oiled up male leads by having every female of the week character show up and be noticably buxom (speaking of Hercules, Legend of the Seeker was good fun in the same vein, a less preachy adaptation of the Sword of Truth book series).

    Never got around to Cult - I tend to wait to see if a series will last before picking it up, so I won't get disappointed - see Flashforward, Last Resort, Terra Nova for just three.

    Arrow is an interesting one - Mr Amell is gobsmacking eye-candy and does the role of Oliver Queen really well, it must have been a bit of kick for the guy who played Green Arrow in Smallville not to get it. There's been some really interesting casting recently - Henry Caville landed Superman's next movie which I think is spot on, Grimm's David Giuntoli just missed out on the role - but TBH I think he's a bit too dark for it and perfect for Grimm - I hope it get's a really long run as a series a la Buffy.

    Silas Weir Mitchell is another character that springs to mind since he's Munroe and was Haywire in Prison Break - he does unhinged/character really well. There really are some superb actors out there and yet himbos like Purcell get jobs...

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Easterross - you old rogue !! .... Hope all is well.

    How goes the Jacobite cause in the greater Highlands ??
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    Final TV series comment for now - Life of Crime on ITV has potential, its a bit shouty sweary 70s hard copper stuff, but I think its worth a try.

    And if you haven't seen it - The Politician's Husband is very good in a Borgen meet House of Cards way - on BBC2 I think with David Tennant as the wronged and resentful man.

    EDIT In truly crap BBC fashion - I've just realised that this series managed a whole THREE episodes in this run. FFS. 3?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01sfj05
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    edited May 2013
    Plato said:

    kle4 said:

    @Plato

    And of course Supernatural is stocked full of eye candy for the ladies or gay men. It was one of those shows that like Hercules seemed to try and 'make up' for its oiled up male leads by having every female of the week character show up and be noticably buxom (speaking of Hercules, Legend of the Seeker was good fun in the same vein, a less preachy adaptation of the Sword of Truth book series).

    Never got around to Cult - I tend to wait to see if a series will last before picking it up, so I won't get disappointed - see Flashforward, Last Resort, Terra Nova for just three.

    Arrow is an interesting one - Mr Amell is gobsmacking eye-candy and does the role of Oliver Queen really well, it must have been a bit of kick for the guy who played Green Arrow in Smallville not to get it. There's been some really interesting casting recently - Henry Caville landed Superman's next movie which I think is spot on, Grimm's David Giuntoli just missed out on the role - but TBH I think he's a bit too dark for it and perfect for Grimm - I hope it get's a really long run as a series a la Buffy.

    Silas Weir Mitchell is another character that springs to mind since he's Munroe and was Haywire in Prison Break - he does unhinged/character really well. There really are some superb actors out there and yet himbos like Purcell get jobs...

    I was surprised by Grimm, and Mitchell in it, as it's probably the most 'normal' character I've ever seen him play (not that I'd remembered his name).

    Smallville was terrible, but Arrow is much more entertaining. Good to see a ruthless vigilante actually be, well, ruthless and kill people. Can't remember the last time I saw Purcell in anything (gods, I think he was in Blade Trinity as well, terrible film), so maybe he's finding less work

    Is it just me or are TV actors a lot better than they were 20-30 years ago (they're obviously in better shape, but that's another matter)?

    Oddly, many would say politicians have gone in the opposite direction, although not being around then myself to judge perhaps that was just nostalgia.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,969
    Plato/JackW/Tim/MikeK - Yes, some working class Labour voters may oppose gay marriage, hence the leak to UKIP, and metropolitan Cameroons cleary support it, but Labour voters still clearly support gay marriage, albeit not as strongly as LDs, while Tories narrowly oppose it, albeit not as much as UKIP (hence it remains a home for Tory defectors on the issue)
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Plato said:

    Final TV series comment for now - Life of Crime on ITV has potential, its a bit shouty sweary 70s hard copper stuff, but I think its worth a try.

    And if you haven't seen it - The Politician's Husband is very good in a Borgen meet House of Cards way - on BBC3 I think with David Tennant as the wronged and resentful man.

    I find myself drawn to NCIS on Fox where the charms of Special Agent Ziva David have on more than the odd occasion lifted an eyebrow.

    Phew .............

    Nurse !!!!!!!!!!!

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    kle4 said:

    Legend of the Seeker was good fun in the same vein, a less preachy adaptation of the Sword of Truth book series).

    You left out the most important bit about the show, Bridget Regan!

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=legend+of+the+seeker+regan&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X

    The books were surprisingly political.


  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    On help to buy

    I've said before that it's a stupid policy. Frankly, I'm amazed anyone on the right thinks otherwise. It's the type of economically irresponsible policy I'd have expected out of new labour during the bubble years.

    Anyway, to be constructive - the one change which would make the policy slightly less bad would be to limit it to new build houses. At least then, we'd increase the housing supply and the subsequent effect on overall house prices would be limited.

    They won't do this though, because the whole point of the policy is to reflate the asset bubble.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 21,645
    Pong said:

    On help to buy

    I've said before that it's a stupid policy. Frankly, I'm amazed anyone on the right thinks otherwise. It's the type of economically irresponsible policy I'd have expected out of new labour during the bubble years.

    Anyway, to be constructive - the one change which would make the policy slightly less bad would be to limit it to new build houses. At least then, we'd increase the housing supply and the subsequent effect on overall house prices would be limited.

    They won't do this though, because the whole point of the policy is to reflate the asset bubble.

    It's garbage as a policy and we have arrived here because Osborne won't grasp the nettle of bank reform. In effect he has given us a worse policy than taking some of the inevitable bank write-offs on the chin.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    kle4 said:

    Plato said:

    kle4 said:

    @Plato

    And of course Supernatural is stocked full of eye candy for the ladies or gay men. It was one of those shows that like Hercules seemed to try and 'make up' for its oiled up male leads by having every female of the week character show up and be noticably buxom (speaking of Hercules, Legend of the Seeker was good fun in the same vein, a less preachy adaptation of the Sword of Truth book series).

    Never got around to Cult - I tend to wait to see if a series will last before picking it up, so I won't get disappointed - see Flashforward, Last Resort, Terra Nova for just three.

    Arrow is an interesting one - Mr Amell is gobsmacking eye-candy and does the role of Oliver Queen really well, it must have been a bit of kick for the guy who played Green Arrow in Smallville not to get it. There's been some really interesting casting recently - Henry Caville landed Superman's next movie which I think is spot on, Grimm's David Giuntoli just missed out on the role - but TBH I think he's a bit too dark for it and perfect for Grimm - I hope it get's a really long run as a series a la Buffy.

    Silas Weir Mitchell is another character that springs to mind since he's Munroe and was Haywire in Prison Break - he does unhinged/character really well. There really are some superb actors out there and yet himbos like Purcell get jobs...

    I was surprised by Grimm, and Mitchell in it, as it's probably the most 'normal' character I've ever seen him play (not that I'd remembered his name).

    Smallville was terrible, but Arrow is much more entertaining. Good to see a ruthless vigilante actually be, well, ruthless and kill people. Can't remember the last time I saw Purcell in anything (gods, I think he was in Blade Trinity as well, terrible film), so maybe he's finding less work

    Is it just me or are TV actors a lot better than they were 20-30 years ago (they're obviously in better shape, but that's another matter)?

    Oddly, many would say politicians have gone in the opposite direction, although not being around then myself to judge perhaps that was just nostalgia.
    The Punisher was a vigilante character played by Dolph Lundgren back in the 80s and he was very dark - I can't think of another one bar Mel Gibson in Payback [which I thought was a very watchable movie].

    I'd say US TV actors are head and shoulders above most film performances I've seen recently and definitely totally transformed from the hammy stuff from years ago - TBH, I can barely stand any UK drama - its pants, over-acted, crap plots, 1-D characters - I'm amazed anyone watches it compared to the quality of US output. There are also now a huge number of UK actors playing US roles and Brits in US series. I suspect that one is linked to the other.

    If you're top drawer - why appear in a tin-pot 3 episode run on BBC1 when you can be in a 24 episode run on ABC et al?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    edited May 2013

    kle4 said:

    Legend of the Seeker was good fun in the same vein, a less preachy adaptation of the Sword of Truth book series).

    You left out the most important bit about the show, Bridget Regan!
    I didn't want to appear shallow in my reasoning, but, well, let's be honest and say super attractive people kicking arse is a genre of TV and movies that should never go out of style.

    Last TV comment from me, a friend pointed me toward a Canadian show called Continuum. Short series, only 10 episodes in first season, but was surprisingly excellent in writing, acting and fight choreaography. About a cop from the future accidentally sent back when some death row prisoners escape to the past (and they are brutal terrorists fighting for democracy in a corporation run future, to make her chasing them even more interesting). I thought it's be stock and cliche, but it really wasn't.

    And yes, the female lead is stunning. Curse you TV typecasting

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rachel+nichols&client=firefox-a&hs=519&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=YB2ZUfv3KPPP0AXenICABw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=942&bih=865#client=firefox-a&hs=KiU&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=rachel+nichols+continuum&oq=rachel+nichols+continuum&gs_l=img.3..0l5j0i24l2.5020.6555.0.6763.10.10.0.0.0.0.291.1413.3j5j1.9.0...0.0...1c.1.14.img.JnKxI0FV8so&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46751780,d.d2k&fp=f4427db03f1443c0&biw=942&bih=865
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    edited May 2013
    Crime not a huge concern of LDs I note - less crime in the leafy suburbs and shires? And yet it is a concern for Tories mostly found in the same areas, curious.

    Could it be because most LD voters are criminals, so less concerned about crime? :) (Says a multiple time LD voter)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,776
    Pong said:

    On help to buy

    I've said before that it's a stupid policy. Frankly, I'm amazed anyone on the right thinks otherwise. It's the type of economically irresponsible policy I'd have expected out of new labour during the bubble years.

    Anyway, to be constructive - the one change which would make the policy slightly less bad would be to limit it to new build houses. At least then, we'd increase the housing supply and the subsequent effect on overall house prices would be limited.

    They won't do this though, because the whole point of the policy is to reflate the asset bubble.

    I'm pretty sure I was the first person on here to express immediate concerns when it was first announced, although nuanced by a caveat to wait for the details.

    I am far from being an expert in this area, but I have seen nothing that changes my initial view. A policy with potential short-term gains, that may have serious long-term consequences.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    kle4 said:

    MikeK said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim - Tory voters oppose gay marriage though, which is why many have defected to UKIP, the gay marriage majority is made up mainly of Labour and LD voters most of whom would never vote Tory anyway

    I don't think you'll find many traditional Labour working class supporting gay marriage either, and therein lies the rub. These are the very labour voters leaking to UKIP in droves. UKIP appears to attract not just Tory voters.

    I do wonder how long that will remain true, given certain Tories seeking official pacts with UKIP, and UKIP still appearing to present as Tory-Hard. At some point if the Tories chase after UKIP too much will it put off formerly Labour voters, or at voters in some of these bastions so tribal that all they really want is an alternative that is not the Tories in order to switch from Labour, even if the Tories are trying to be indistinguishable from UKIP?
    The UKIP policy, as I understand it, is not to have closer relations with the Tories, i,e. UKIP/Tory pacts. In fact so against this are the vast majority of the UKIP rank and file, especially the newer recruits, that Farrage has repeatedly said that there will be no national pacts with any other party, except perhaps on a purely local basis, and even these will be exceptional.

    Those certain Tories seeking official pacts are due a very, very long wait indeed.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    JackW said:

    Plato said:

    Final TV series comment for now - Life of Crime on ITV has potential, its a bit shouty sweary 70s hard copper stuff, but I think its worth a try.

    And if you haven't seen it - The Politician's Husband is very good in a Borgen meet House of Cards way - on BBC3 I think with David Tennant as the wronged and resentful man.

    I find myself drawn to NCIS on Fox where the charms of Special Agent Ziva David have on more than the odd occasion lifted an eyebrow.

    Phew .............

    Nurse !!!!!!!!!!!

    NCIS is great - that Tony [Michael Wetherall] has Robert Wagner cast as his dad is just perfect! they look so alike and share a very similar smoozing manner - its inspired casting. I'd believe they were related.

    I was chatting a TV buff the other day and NCIS is - as far as we can tell - the longest running spin-off series, its about to start S10 - and came from the appalling JAG [A Few Good Men meets the US military PR dept with added patronising]. I got as far as S2 and just had to switch it off - it made me yearn for Crossroads. I have no idea how it lasted so long - its terrible in every area - the acting, the scripts, the caricatures, the 'plots'... I can endure a lot - but it was unwatchable even when drunk.

    My heart of course - belongs to Gibbs :^ )
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    edited May 2013
    MikeK said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeK said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim - Tory voters oppose gay marriage though, which is why many have defected to UKIP, the gay marriage majority is made up mainly of Labour and LD voters most of whom would never vote Tory anyway

    I don't think you'll find many traditional Labour working class supporting gay marriage either, and therein lies the rub. These are the very labour voters leaking to UKIP in droves. UKIP appears to attract not just Tory voters.

    I do wonder how long that will remain true, given certain Tories seeking official pacts with UKIP, and UKIP still appearing to present as Tory-Hard. At some point if the Tories chase after UKIP too much will it put off formerly Labour voters, or at voters in some of these bastions so tribal that all they really want is an alternative that is not the Tories in order to switch from Labour, even if the Tories are trying to be indistinguishable from UKIP?
    The UKIP policy, as I understand it, is not to have closer relations with the Tories, i,e. UKIP/Tory pacts. In fact so against this are the vast majority of the UKIP rank and file, especially the newer recruits, that Farrage has repeatedly said that there will be no national pacts with any other party, except perhaps on a purely local basis, and even these will be exceptional.

    Those certain Tories seeking official pacts are due a very, very long wait indeed.

    Sensible from UKIP to keep a distance, given themselves some wiggle room, although if Tories in droves appear to be begging for it, and they are, that could still have some impact on former Labour voters in determining, despite their protests, that UKIP are simply Tory-Hard (a phrase I am determined to force into common parlance).

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    edited May 2013
    Plato said:

    JackW said:

    Plato said:

    Final TV series comment for now - Life of Crime on ITV has potential, its a bit shouty sweary 70s hard copper stuff, but I think its worth a try.

    And if you haven't seen it - The Politician's Husband is very good in a Borgen meet House of Cards way - on BBC3 I think with David Tennant as the wronged and resentful man.

    I find myself drawn to NCIS on Fox where the charms of Special Agent Ziva David have on more than the odd occasion lifted an eyebrow.

    Phew .............

    Nurse !!!!!!!!!!!


    I was chatting a TV buff the other day and NCIS is - as far as we can tell - the longest running spin-off series, its about to start S10 - and came from the appalling JAG
    Fraiser from Cheers. 11 seasons each I think (didn't really watch either, a bit before my time)

    I may know a bit too much about TV admittedly. And videogames. And some politics.

    I'm not totally a recluse ;)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Legend of the Seeker was good fun in the same vein, a less preachy adaptation of the Sword of Truth book series).

    You left out the most important bit about the show, Bridget Regan!
    I didn't want to appear shallow in my reasoning, but, well, let's be honest and say super attractive people kicking arse is a genre of TV and movies that should never go out of style.

    Last TV comment from me, a friend pointed me toward a Canadian show called Continuum. Short series, only 10 episodes in first season, but was surprisingly excellent in writing, acting and fight choreaography. About a cop from the future accidentally sent back when some death row prisoners escape to the past (and they are brutal terrorists fighting for democracy in a corporation run future, to make her chasing them even more interesting). I thought it's be stock and cliche, but it really wasn't.

    And yes, the female lead is stunning. Curse you TV typecasting

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rachel+nichols&client=firefox-a&hs=519&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=YB2ZUfv3KPPP0AXenICABw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=942&bih=865#client=firefox-a&hs=KiU&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=rachel+nichols+continuum&oq=rachel+nichols+continuum&gs_l=img.3..0l5j0i24l2.5020.6555.0.6763.10.10.0.0.0.0.291.1413.3j5j1.9.0...0.0...1c.1.14.img.JnKxI0FV8so&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46751780,d.d2k&fp=f4427db03f1443c0&biw=942&bih=865
    I tried Continuum - and gave in after 1.5 episodes, it all felt like hard work. Maybe I need to give it another go. Have you tried Motive, Elementary, Once Upon A Time or Revolution? Four very different genres that I've enjoyed wasting time on.

    I assume you've seen Scandal [I wish it wasn't so manically acted] and Da Vinci's Demons [I really like this one]
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,503
    kle4 said:

    Could it be because most LD voters are criminals, so less concerned about crime? :) (Says a multiple time LD voter)

    Don't give the game away, my friend !!

    On-topic, Cameron doesn't need to "tack" anywhere - the more he's seen to be chasing the voters, the weaker he looks. In essence, it is, as always, "the economy, stupid".

    The Coalition parties will prevail given one of the following conditions;

    1) The electorate perceives things to be improving and that's not about statistics but about individual experience and expectation. Avery's constant barrage of "good news" is irrelevant - if people "feel" better about the economy, that's all the Government needs.

    2) The electorate perceives that voting Labour will make things substantially worse for them individually and collectively. Labour doesn't have to prove it can manage the economy better than the Coalition but it does have to prove it won't make things worse.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Pong said:

    On help to buy

    I've said before that it's a stupid policy. Frankly, I'm amazed anyone on the right thinks otherwise. It's the type of economically irresponsible policy I'd have expected out of new labour during the bubble years.

    Anyway, to be constructive - the one change which would make the policy slightly less bad would be to limit it to new build houses. At least then, we'd increase the housing supply and the subsequent effect on overall house prices would be limited.

    They won't do this though, because the whole point of the policy is to reflate the asset bubble.

    If Labour had proposed this, the reaction of PBTories would have been hysterical.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    @ Plato
    Elementary is awesome (admittedly I didn't get past one episode of Sherlock, so my opinion may be mud there), Once Upon a Time I just could not take seriously, it defeated my suspension of disbelief in questioning all the unspoken implications of it's setting, not seen the other two yet (or even heard of Motive). I love the premise of Revolution, I like after the end type plots.

    Not seen Scandal or Demons. I shall have to do some searching and give them a shot.

    Unemployment not a concern for Tories either in the chart. Good for them I guess. In fairness it's not too bad right now.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 2,815
    kle4 said:

    Crime not a huge concern of LDs I note - less crime in the leafy suburbs and shires? And yet it is a concern for Tories mostly found in the same areas, curious.

    Could it be because most LD voters are criminals, so less concerned about crime? :) (Says a multiple time LD voter)


    Yet it is the LDs who want to keep the European Arrest Warrant, and it is the Tories who want 135 classes of criminal not to be subject to them.
    If your question is a serious one, then I understand that people, living in the same area, will have different attitudes to crime depending on what papers they read.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    edited May 2013

    kle4 said:

    Crime not a huge concern of LDs I note - less crime in the leafy suburbs and shires? And yet it is a concern for Tories mostly found in the same areas, curious.

    Could it be because most LD voters are criminals, so less concerned about crime? :) (Says a multiple time LD voter)


    Yet it is the LDs who want to keep the European Arrest Warrant, and it is the Tories who want 135 classes of criminal not to be subject to them.
    If your question is a serious one, then I understand that people, living in the same area, will have different attitudes to crime depending on what papers they read.
    No it wasn't wholly serious, it was just a curious noting of their number being significantly out of step with the others on that issue, though perhaps because they believe in the Euro arrest warrant and its effectiveness, that's one reason they're less concerned. I suppose papers might explain it, although with circulation down perhaps depending on where online they get their news from?

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    kle4 said:

    Plato said:

    JackW said:

    Plato said:

    Final TV series comment for now - Life of Crime on ITV has potential, its a bit shouty sweary 70s hard copper stuff, but I think its worth a try.

    And if you haven't seen it - The Politician's Husband is very good in a Borgen meet House of Cards way - on BBC3 I think with David Tennant as the wronged and resentful man.

    I find myself drawn to NCIS on Fox where the charms of Special Agent Ziva David have on more than the odd occasion lifted an eyebrow.

    Phew .............

    Nurse !!!!!!!!!!!


    I was chatting a TV buff the other day and NCIS is - as far as we can tell - the longest running spin-off series, its about to start S10 - and came from the appalling JAG
    Fraiser from Cheers. 11 seasons each I think (didn't really watch either, a bit before my time)

    I may know a bit too much about TV admittedly. And videogames. And some politics.

    I'm not totally a recluse ;)
    Cheers and Frasier were my vintage but never keen on either of them - I tried watching Frasier again last year from S1 and just found it very cliched. I tripped across Ted Danson from Cheers in CSI and blimey is he a crap actor. I can't watch him without wincing. Gary Sinise who does CSI New York puts him to shame, pity that's been cancelled now after S9.

    Mr Sinise is a superb actor - I still recall being amazed he actually HAD LEGS after first seeing him in Forrest Gump and then wondering how he'd grown another pair in Apollo 13 ;^ )

    Lieutenant Dan is the best role he's ever played IMO.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRuF32IdJdo
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,156
    edited May 2013
    One of the Lib Dem Councillors has leaked some figures for George Ferguson's Residential Parking Zone scam.

    Businesses face permit rise for max of 2 cars from £300 to £600.

    £100 to £500 for customer parking. Households up from £30 to £48, and the council want to know which emission group each car might belong too. Air quality is the excuse for piling on another tax on top of the VED levied by HMG.

    Pity that some of the council candidates couldn't pick up on what Good Old Red Trousers was up to before the voters turned out. Meanwhile the media get worked up by his Eff Off outburst and his student stalker.

    GORT also proposes a congestion charge. All of which was kept quiet when he stood for election as Mayor in November. Progress in China is a move from bikes to the car, whilst in Bristol...
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The Conservatives would be best advised to concentrate on competence. Policies are overrated.

    Their big problem for them is the turnip Taliban's insistence on making the peripheral question of the EU their touchstone. The bulk of the public rightly regard them as mad to do so.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    The Conservatives would be best advised to concentrate on competence.

    The problem may be they have tried to, but been found wanting.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited May 2013
    Plato said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Legend of the Seeker was good fun in the same vein, a less preachy adaptation of the Sword of Truth book series).

    You left out the most important bit about the show, Bridget Regan!
    I didn't want to appear shallow in my reasoning, but, well, let's be honest and say super attractive people kicking arse is a genre of TV and movies that should never go out of style.

    Last TV comment from me, a friend pointed me toward a Canadian show called Continuum. Short series, only 10 episodes in first season, but was surprisingly excellent in writing, acting and fight choreaography. About a cop from the future accidentally sent back when some death row prisoners escape to the past (and they are brutal terrorists fighting for democracy in a corporation run future, to make her chasing them even more interesting). I thought it's be stock and cliche, but it really wasn't.

    And yes, the female lead is stunning. Curse you TV typecasting

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rachel+nichols&client=firefox-a&hs=519&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=YB2ZUfv3KPPP0AXenICABw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=942&bih=865#client=firefox-a&hs=KiU&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=rachel+nichols+continuum&oq=rachel+nichols+continuum&gs_l=img.3..0l5j0i24l2.5020.6555.0.6763.10.10.0.0.0.0.291.1413.3j5j1.9.0...0.0...1c.1.14.img.JnKxI0FV8so&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46751780,d.d2k&fp=f4427db03f1443c0&biw=942&bih=865
    I tried Continuum - and gave in after 1.5 episodes, it all felt like hard work. Maybe I need to give it another go. Have you tried Motive, Elementary, Once Upon A Time or Revolution? Four very different genres that I've enjoyed wasting time on.

    I assume you've seen Scandal [I wish it wasn't so manically acted] and Da Vinci's Demons [I really like this one]
    I'm just hoping that after 'Game of Thrones' finishes, HOB will start on Robert Jordans, "Wheel of Time' saga. However, if HBO follows George R R Martins books there are at least another 3 series to go. Perhaps they could start Wheel before GOT finishes. But it's a big ask, the Wheel is a far longer series.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    kle4 said:

    @ Plato
    Elementary is awesome (admittedly I didn't get past one episode of Sherlock, so my opinion may be mud there), Once Upon a Time I just could not take seriously, it defeated my suspension of disbelief in questioning all the unspoken implications of it's setting, not seen the other two yet (or even heard of Motive). I love the premise of Revolution, I like after the end type plots.

    Not seen Scandal or Demons. I shall have to do some searching and give them a shot.

    Unemployment not a concern for Tories either in the chart. Good for them I guess. In fairness it's not too bad right now.

    Scandal can be annoying but the plot is rather good, Motive is interesting because it tells you up front who the killer/victims are in a WhyDonnit, DaV's is brilliant IMO - its funny/soft porn/gorey a la Shakespeare in Love meets Borgias/Game of Thrones.

    Revolution is up and down - the fight scenes [lots of swords] are good, the plot can be rather sloww... I'd give it 7/10 - I've watched up to E14 and I tend to save them for a quiet evening.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    MikeK said:

    Plato said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Legend of the Seeker was good fun in the same vein, a less preachy adaptation of the Sword of Truth book series).

    You left out the most important bit about the show, Bridget Regan!
    I didn't want to appear shallow in my reasoning, but, well, let's be honest and say super attractive people kicking arse is a genre of TV and movies that should never go out of style.

    Last TV comment from me, a friend pointed me toward a Canadian show called Continuum. Short series, only 10 episodes in first season, but was surprisingly excellent in writing, acting and fight choreaography. About a cop from the future accidentally sent back when some death row prisoners escape to the past (and they are brutal terrorists fighting for democracy in a corporation run future, to make her chasing them even more interesting). I thought it's be stock and cliche, but it really wasn't.

    And yes, the female lead is stunning. Curse you TV typecasting

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rachel+nichols&client=firefox-a&hs=519&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=YB2ZUfv3KPPP0AXenICABw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=942&bih=865#client=firefox-a&hs=KiU&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=rachel+nichols+continuum&oq=rachel+nichols+continuum&gs_l=img.3..0l5j0i24l2.5020.6555.0.6763.10.10.0.0.0.0.291.1413.3j5j1.9.0...0.0...1c.1.14.img.JnKxI0FV8so&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46751780,d.d2k&fp=f4427db03f1443c0&biw=942&bih=865
    I tried Continuum - and gave in after 1.5 episodes, it all felt like hard work. Maybe I need to give it another go. Have you tried Motive, Elementary, Once Upon A Time or Revolution? Four very different genres that I've enjoyed wasting time on.

    I assume you've seen Scandal [I wish it wasn't so manically acted] and Da Vinci's Demons [I really like this one]
    I'm just hoping that after 'Game of Thrones' finishes, HOB will start on Robert Jordans, "Wheel of Time' saga. However, if HBO follows Geirge R R Martins books there are at least another 3 series to go. Perhaps they could start Wheel before GOT finishes. But it's a big ask, the Wheel is a far longer series.
    With even larger main casts (the main characters and their various entourages). I would watch the hell out of a Wheel of Time series though. Or at least a 12 movie series or something! I mean, Fast and Furious 7 is being filmed and I heard it is planned to be the start of a new trilogy, so there could be 9 of them, so anything's possible.

    GoT is planning at least 4 more seasons I think, as Books 3 is being split across 2 seasons, with some from book 4 in there, I believe.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Europe: Conservatives are united, says Jeremy Hunt

    The Conservative Party is united and David Cameron is showing leadership on Britain's relationship with Europe, Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt has said.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22586142
    So that settles that and we'll hear no more about it.

    LOL
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    edited May 2013
    dr_spyn said:

    One of the Lib Dem Councillors has leaked some figures for George Ferguson's Residential Parking Zone scam.

    Businesses face permit rise for max of 2 cars from £300 to £600.

    £100 to £500 for customer parking. Households up from £30 to £48, and the council want to know which emission group each car might belong too. Air quality is the excuse for piling on another tax on top of the VED levied by HMG.

    Pity that some of the council candidates couldn't pick up on what Good Old Red Trousers was up to before the voters turned out. Meanwhile the media get worked up by his Eff Off outburst and his student stalker.

    GORT also proposes a congestion charge. All of which was kept quiet when he stood for election as Mayor in November. Progress in China is a move from bikes to the car, whilst in Bristol...

    Similar goings on in Brighton. Inflation-busting rises in resident parking charges (I think initially the proposal was to double them for business vehicles here too...), parking zones 'forced' by suburb creep (oodles of empty spaces left unused in zoned areas on outskirts), not listening to locally-suggested alternatives, one car per household policies, long waiting lists for permits, 20mph zones, a million quid cycle lane...

    I wouldn't mind if charges were limited to a rise with inflation, or capped. And I could take the 'environment' argument if not for the weekly vehicle-fests on the seafront all through summer.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    kle4 said:

    The Conservatives would be best advised to concentrate on competence.

    The problem may be they have tried to, but been found wanting.

    All things are relative when your opponents are Ed Miliband and Ed Balls. A couple of years of steady if slow growth might be enough.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    Mick_Pork said:

    Europe: Conservatives are united, says Jeremy Hunt

    The Conservative Party is united and David Cameron is showing leadership on Britain's relationship with Europe, Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt has said.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22586142
    So that settles that and we'll hear no more about it.

    LOL
    I believe my first reaction to the comment was it was the most deluded political statement I'd seen in my life. 12 hours has not altered that opinion for me. I know you don't admit internal difficulty if you can help it (There are no struggles between Blairites and Brownites, anyone?), but there's a limit to how far you can deny something.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    antifrank said:

    kle4 said:

    The Conservatives would be best advised to concentrate on competence.

    The problem may be they have tried to, but been found wanting.

    All things are relative when your opponents are Ed Miliband and Ed Balls. A couple of years of steady if slow growth might be enough.
    I think it needs to be a bit more than slow - it was always going to be tough in 2015 even before the collapse in confidence of the last year or so.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    MikeK said:

    Plato said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Legend of the Seeker was good fun in the same vein, a less preachy adaptation of the Sword of Truth book series).

    You left out the most important bit about the show, Bridget Regan!
    I didn't want to appear shallow in my reasoning, but, well, let's be honest and say super attractive people kicking arse is a genre of TV and movies that should never go out of style.

    Last TV comment from me, a friend pointed me toward a Canadian show called Continuum. Short series, only 10 episodes in first season, but was surprisingly excellent in writing, acting and fight choreaography. About a cop from the future accidentally sent back when some death row prisoners escape to the past (and they are brutal terrorists fighting for democracy in a corporation run future, to make her chasing them even more interesting). I thought it's be stock and cliche, but it really wasn't.

    And yes, the female lead is stunning. Curse you TV typecasting

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rachel+nichols&client=firefox-a&hs=519&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=YB2ZUfv3KPPP0AXenICABw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=942&bih=865#client=firefox-a&hs=KiU&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=rachel+nichols+continuum&oq=rachel+nichols+continuum&gs_l=img.3..0l5j0i24l2.5020.6555.0.6763.10.10.0.0.0.0.291.1413.3j5j1.9.0...0.0...1c.1.14.img.JnKxI0FV8so&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46751780,d.d2k&fp=f4427db03f1443c0&biw=942&bih=865
    I tried Continuum - and gave in after 1.5 episodes, it all felt like hard work. Maybe I need to give it another go. Have you tried Motive, Elementary, Once Upon A Time or Revolution? Four very different genres that I've enjoyed wasting time on.

    I assume you've seen Scandal [I wish it wasn't so manically acted] and Da Vinci's Demons [I really like this one]
    I'm just hoping that after 'Game of Thrones' finishes, HOB will start on Robert Jordans, "Wheel of Time' saga. However, if HBO follows George R R Martins books there are at least another 3 series to go. Perhaps they could start Wheel before GOT finishes. But it's a big ask, the Wheel is a far longer series.

    I don't know that genre - I liked GoT, the dwarf was a superb bit of character/casting - have you tried Vikings? That looks pretty good in the interim.

    Another one to waste time on is Nikita if you're into strong female leads and fight scenes. The main lead is Maggie Q who was a model before this role - she's pretty convincing as an assassin.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @Plato

    My heart of course - belongs to Gibbs :^ )

    D'yer think Plato !!

    Head slap !!
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    kle4 said:

    The Conservatives would be best advised to concentrate on competence.

    The problem may be they have tried to, but been found wanting.

    They have the toxic liability Osbrowne to thank for that. How they expect to run an election campaign on the economy with a chancellor Cammie had to keep away from the voters as much as possible in the 2010 campaign they haven't quite explained yet.


    Osbrowne was also one of those behind this entire incompetent master strategy of stopping the kippers by banging on about Europe, welfare and immigration. That turned out well didn't it? For UKIP.



  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,538
    Every time I answer a YouGov questionnaire I get as far as the question about age, tell them I'm over 65, and am then told my views are not wanted. They've got enough.

    Pity, because I'm pro-Europe, don't give a rats about gay marriage ..... if non-hetero's want to get married, good luck to them ..... and anyway, what's the difference between marriage and civil partnership ...... and am relaxed about immigration ...... who else is going to look after me if I have to go into a Home?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    kle4 said:

    antifrank said:

    kle4 said:

    The Conservatives would be best advised to concentrate on competence.

    The problem may be they have tried to, but been found wanting.

    All things are relative when your opponents are Ed Miliband and Ed Balls. A couple of years of steady if slow growth might be enough.
    I think it needs to be a bit more than slow - it was always going to be tough in 2015 even before the collapse in confidence of the last year or so.

    We'll see. "Don't let Labour ruin it" will be a strong message, given what the coalition had to face in 2010. And the Lib Dems will have to reinforce that message at least to some extent, given their complicity in the coalition.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    tim said:

    @politicshomeuk: Vince Cable on Tory rows: “It’s conceivable that the Conservatives could split.” @JPonpolitics @BBC5live

    Having a bit of fun because of Gove's 'Cable is on maneuveres' remarks I suspect.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @kle4

    Have you seen The Guardian with Simon Baker [of Mentalist fame] ? It's got armfuls of awards and just released on DVD but dates back to the mid 2000s.

    Think I'll have a looksee at it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian_(TV_series)
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Another triumph for the fops.
    David Wooding ‏@DavidWooding

    35 Tory chairmen - dubbed "swivel-eyed loons" - warn Cameron in letter he will cost them the next election. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4933620/Conservatives-revolt-against-Cameron.html
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,156
    edited May 2013
    @Carola

    One nursery has over 40 staff - attitude of Bristol City Council appears to be eff off and use the bus, bike, train, or feet. Get out of your car or we'll bleed you dry. BBC report on rumors of job losses.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-22521331

    £1 per hour parking max 3 hours. Creeping thru suburbia from one to another. Nothing of note about this issue during local election campaign - Labour obsessed with Bedroom Tax. Councillors and council candidates not asking GORT what he was up to. Councillors not willing to admit that removing parking spaces in local hospitals and restrictions they impose on development play a part.

    Consultation period ends Wednesday 5.00pm. Q and A session with Mayor and officers for firms - bit of a sham - esp when BCC have been reluctant to divulge information. Could be an 'interesting' week.

    Rainbow Cabinet was formed this week as Labour finally got permission from Father Ed to climb on George Ferguson's cabinet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    @Plato

    Not seen that one, bit odd only just released on DVD, but Baker's pretty good in most things.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    Mick_Pork said:

    Another triumph for the fops.

    David Wooding ‏@DavidWooding

    35 Tory chairmen - dubbed "swivel-eyed loons" - warn Cameron in letter he will cost them the next election. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4933620/Conservatives-revolt-against-Cameron.html
    I do wonder how many of those chairmen are fops themselves. And how many deserve the loon label, even if it was inadvisable for Cameron and to call them such, assuming it happened.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,969
    SeanT - Yes, I saw that, interesting especially with the new Star Trek now on the big screen
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    SeanT said:

    Crivvens. Completely amazing story hidden away in the Sunday Times (££). First hard evidence of "other universes":

    http://tinyurl.com/am2qpaw

    ?!!!?!!?

    ?!!!?!!? indeed. How cosmic cold spots hint at such a thing goodness only knows.

    I recall hearing a theory that the multiverse was actually possibly like a sting with bubbles along it, each bubble being a 'universe' only echoes of which could be felt in the others. I have no idea how that idea developed or what could possibly prove it, but the thing is even when it is explained to me, I still have no clue
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,538
    kle4 said:

    tim said:

    @politicshomeuk: Vince Cable on Tory rows: “It’s conceivable that the Conservatives could split.” @JPonpolitics @BBC5live

    Having a bit of fun because of Gove's 'Cable is on maneuveres' remarks I suspect.

    I thought theTories had split already! Cameron's lot on one side, UKIP on the other!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,776
    SeanT said:

    Crivvens. Completely amazing story hidden away in the Sunday Times (££). First hard evidence of "other universes":

    http://tinyurl.com/am2qpaw

    ?!!!?!!?

    Treat that with extreme caution at this stage. Dramatic claims require dramatic proof.

    But it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if it was true.

    The science story that has amazed me most in recent years is that scientists have managed to 'capture' a photon formed as a virtual particle in a vacuum.

    http://www.chalmers.se/en/news/pages/chalmers-scientists-create-light-from-vacuum.aspx

    Lots of other fascinating stuff going on in science at the moment; it's just that I don't have the brainpower to understand most of it. Mrs J's much better at this sort of thing than me, and it baffles her much of the time.

    Another one: Chinese scientists have measured the speed of quantum entanglement as at least 10,000 times the speed of light. But be very careful when people talk about actual uses for this technology - the actual science is exceptionally weird and non-intuitive.

    http://www.gizmag.com/quantum-entanglement-speed-10000-faster-light/26587/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,118
    Mr. Pong, that's possible.

    However, an allegation without any evidence that damages a party is little better than a smear. As long as something's theoretically plausible it can be made up.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,118
    Mr. Pong, that's possible.

    However, an allegation without any evidence that damages a party is little better than a smear. As long as something's theoretically plausible it can be made up.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    dr_spyn said:

    @Carola

    One nursery has over 40 staff - attitude of Bristol City Council appears to be eff off and use the bus, bike, train, or feet. Get out of your car or we'll bleed you dry. BBC report on rumors of job losses.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-22521331

    £1 per hour parking max 3 hours. Creeping thru suburbia from one to another. Nothing of note about this issue during local election campaign - Labour obsessed with Bedroom Tax. Councillors and council candidates not asking GORT what he was up to. Councillors not willing to admit that removing parking spaces in local hospitals and restrictions they impose on development play a part.

    Consultation period ends Wednesday 5.00pm. Q and A session with Mayor and officers for firms - bit of a sham - esp when BCC have been reluctant to divulge information. Could be an 'interesting' week.

    I know they're fighting it in the Hanover/Elm Grove areas of Brighton. Local businesses there said they'd have to move out if the scheme came in. 5/600 people turned up to a meeting at a local primary school - they had to move the meeting out to the playground. They seem to be allowing large scale developments at Amec, the hospital and Brighton College with no obligation to provide adequate parking. I suspect that MPs aren't listening/taking this one on because they know that councils have to make up the council tax shortfall from somewhere... but it's the biggest local grumble fodder here from what I can tell.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    kle4 said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    Another triumph for the fops.

    David Wooding ‏@DavidWooding

    35 Tory chairmen - dubbed "swivel-eyed loons" - warn Cameron in letter he will cost them the next election. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4933620/Conservatives-revolt-against-Cameron.html
    I do wonder how many of those chairmen are fops themselves. And how many deserve the loon label

    Since they've had to wheel out Shapps for a 'charm' offensive on tory activists (yet another genius master strategy) it's pretty clear that whatever shortcomings there may be at the local level they are effectively immune from criticism and scrutiny from the party leadership right now even were they stupid enough to try that.

    Good thing there's nothing coming up this week to further infuriate them like a vote on gay marriage.
    Michael Deacon ‏@MichaelPDeacon

    Tory MP quoted by @jameskirkup: "I don't have a problem with gay marriage but I'll vote against. If I don't I'll lose half my association"

    Cammie's party management is reaching omnishambles levels of incompetence.

    After they ride this chaos out (assuming they can) they are going to have to have a root and branch rethink of the chain of command and relations right down to the local and membership level as well as internal party discipline in the commons. There's no way they can keep this up and expect to win elections unless Cammie and Osbrowne plan to do all the ground campaigning themselves.



  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 55,591
    OGh is asking the wrong question - you don't ask voters "what should we offer you?" - you ask them "what are your concerns?", then YOU decide what YOU will offer them - recognising (as will the voters) that you can't get everything you want - but you will "buy" a coherent package - and if you are any good at your job you'll offer a better package than the other guy. I saw this all the time in two decades of advertising - "the consumer tells us what we should be saying is". It's no more the consumer's job to create advertising than the voter's to create policy. focus groups are far more often misused than used.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @SeanT While science is relying on the concepts of dark matter and dark energy (neither of which there is any direct evidence of and both of which are effectively being used as book-keeping measures to make the current models fit), there's no danger of us thinking we know the entire extent of everything.
  • O/T Apols if already posted. An interesting piece by George Galloway.
    http://redmolucca.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/scotland-farage-and-me/
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    James Forsyth ‏@JGForsyth

    The real Tory row over Europe will come when Cameron says what he means by renegotiation. That’ll expose the splits https://bitly.com/16Br65J
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,156
    @Hertsmere_pubgoer

    Thanks - you'll stir up the Gnats.
This discussion has been closed.