Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Nighthawks is now open

2»

Comments

  • HughHugh Posts: 955

    Hugh said:

    Financier said:

    @SeanT

    How would you deal with states or movements within states (Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah etc) whose stated objective/ideology is the complete elimination of a neighbouring state and the annihilation of that state's people?

    Would you not agree that the leaders of armed movements are cowards when they use other people to be suicide bombers on their behalf and they use schools, hospitals etc as human shields?

    We have seen how ISIS eliminates all people who do not subject themselves to the wishes/culture/beliefs of ISIS and so like totalitarian regimes eliminate both freedom of movement and thought. How would you deal with them and their backers?

    BTW I have travelled probably as widely than you and have spoken with both the leaders and the people of the countries under discussion.

    Oh jeeez, yeah, Gazan terrorist cowards are using their children on beaches and UN schools as human shields.

    Nuclear bombs, hah! We've got tunnels! Apparently. They're dead good ones, though. Better than the ones in the Great Escape, much more deadly.

    How can Israel get rid of these infiltration tunnels otherwise than land involvement by military engineers?

    And for those who cry for sanctions, do you agree that the sanctions should apply to both sides? Perhaps a ban on weapons and parts for weapons would be a good place to start. The Enforcement would require destruction or closing of the Hamas tunnels.

    Sanctions killed about a million Iraqis between the Gulf wars, they are not bloodless, just make for fewer pictures. In 1919 the Allied blockade of Germany killed hundreds of thousands after the armastice http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/starvation1919.html

    Economic sanctions are war by other means, and war on civilians to boot.
    "infiltration tunnels". Lol

    Are they like infiltration tanks and infiltration cruise missiles, only with more spades involved?
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited July 2014
    Financier said:

    What would you say to the Mosul Christians or the Copts of Egypt and how do you define a heretic?

    The Coptic Christians in Egypt are, for the moment, outwith the Islamic State. Christians are People of the Book, not heretics. As for the Christians of Mosul, they chose, understandably, to flee to Kurdish territory, rather than to accept dhimmi status and to pay the jizya. Certainly, the contemporary Islamic State is relatively tolerant compared with the Almohad Caliphate, for example.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    TGOHF said:

    Sun Politics @Sun_Politics · 8s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead up one to two points: CON 35%, LAB 37%, LD 8%, UKIP 12%

    Con poll above their July average. Kippers below theirs...
    The average position would look very different if the weekly outlier Labour lead of 5-7 we tend to see at the beginning of the week was discounted.

    Re 11 I was commenting this morning on Facebook about 2 young Hungarian ladies I placed in hospitality jobs on the Isle of Harris. Their boss is delighted with them. I placed an advert in a UK jobs board and didn't get a single British applicant. I got lots of Central and Eastern European ones and the 2 girls from Hungary were sourced by one of my Hungarian agents.

    In my experience too few British unemployed are that bothered about getting work.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,813
    Financier said:

    murali_s said:

    Agree with SeanT (for once).

    The continuing carnage (genocide) in Gaza IS the news....

    The real news is a resurgent Islam both in the Middle East and Africa and a lack of a co-ordinated approach of how to deal with it.
    It is neither accurate nor fair to conflate the Wahhabist movement with Islam.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @foxinsoxuk
    They could have tried locating the ones that they were interested in by using seismic soundings, then collapsed them in and empty spot in "no mans land"?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Hugh said:

    Financier said:

    Hugh said:

    Financier said:

    @SeanT

    How would you deal with states or movements within states (Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah etc) whose stated objective/ideology is the complete elimination of a neighbouring state and the annihilation of that state's people?

    Would you not agree that the leaders of armed movements are cowards when they use other people to be suicide bombers on their behalf and they use schools, hospitals etc as human shields?

    We have seen how ISIS eliminates all people who do not subject themselves to the wishes/culture/beliefs of ISIS and so like totalitarian regimes eliminate both freedom of movement and thought. How would you deal with them and their backers?

    BTW I have travelled probably as widely than you and have spoken with both the leaders and the people of the countries under discussion.

    Oh jeeez, yeah, Gazan terrorist cowards are using their children on beaches and UN schools as human shields.

    Nuclear bombs, hah! We've got tunnels! Apparently. They're dead good ones, though. Better than the ones in the Great Escape, much more deadly.

    Obviously you have never been to Gaza or experienced being among a terrorist organisation and its activities.
    Lol.

    Er, no, I've never been among a terrorist organisation. Not even the Israeli Government!

    The only existential threat Israel faces is its own behaviour. And they just can't go on like this.
    With such a blinkered view, your thinking and solution generation ability is so, so limited.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Hugh said:

    Financier said:

    @SeanT

    How would you deal with states or movements within states (Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah etc) whose stated objective/ideology is the complete elimination of a neighbouring state and the annihilation of that state's people?

    Would you not agree that the leaders of armed movements are cowards when they use other people to be suicide bombers on their behalf and they use schools, hospitals etc as human shields?

    We have seen how ISIS eliminates all people who do not subject themselves to the wishes/culture/beliefs of ISIS and so like totalitarian regimes eliminate both freedom of movement and thought. How would you deal with them and their backers?

    BTW I have travelled probably as widely than you and have spoken with both the leaders and the people of the countries under discussion.

    Oh jeeez, yeah, Gazan terrorist cowards are using their children on beaches and UN schools as human shields.

    Nuclear bombs, hah! We've got tunnels! Apparently. They're dead good ones, though. Better than the ones in the Great Escape, much more deadly.

    How can Israel get rid of these infiltration tunnels otherwise than land involvement by military engineers?

    And for those who cry for sanctions, do you agree that the sanctions should apply to both sides? Perhaps a ban on weapons and parts for weapons would be a good place to start. The Enforcement would require destruction or closing of the Hamas tunnels.

    Sanctions killed about a million Iraqis between the Gulf wars, they are not bloodless, just make for fewer pictures. In 1919 the Allied blockade of Germany killed hundreds of thousands after the armastice http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/starvation1919.html

    Economic sanctions are war by other means, and war on civilians to boot.
    So you disagree on sanctions on Russia?
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    Smarmeron said:

    @foxinsoxuk
    They could have tried locating the ones that they were interested in by using seismic soundings, then collapsed them in and empty spot in "no mans land"?

    They could've just bricked them up, instead of killing a few thousand civilians and kids in schools and hospitals.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2014

    TGOHF said:

    Sun Politics @Sun_Politics · 8s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead up one to two points: CON 35%, LAB 37%, LD 8%, UKIP 12%

    Con poll above their July average. Kippers below theirs...
    The average position would look very different if the weekly outlier Labour lead of 5-7 we tend to see at the beginning of the week was discounted.

    Re 11 I was commenting this morning on Facebook about 2 young Hungarian ladies I placed in hospitality jobs on the Isle of Harris. Their boss is delighted with them. I placed an advert in a UK jobs board and didn't get a single British applicant. I got lots of Central and Eastern European ones and the 2 girls from Hungary were sourced by one of my Hungarian agents.

    In my experience too few British unemployed are that bothered about getting work.
    I think that not many even know of the Isle of Harris existence (like me).
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Easterross
    It is a crap low paid job, and the Hungarian ladies can account for that by improving their English before returning home.
    You see them all over the highlands in the hotels. (some, shock horror, do some work on the side, or possibly back)
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Financier

    'Oh jeeez, yeah, Gazan terrorist cowards are using their children on beaches and UN schools as human shields.'

    That comment says it all.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Speedy said:

    Hugh said:

    Financier said:

    @SeanT

    How would you deal with states or movements within states (Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah etc) whose stated objective/ideology is the complete elimination of a neighbouring state and the annihilation of that state's people?

    Would you not agree that the leaders of armed movements are cowards when they use other people to be suicide bombers on their behalf and they use schools, hospitals etc as human shields?

    We have seen how ISIS eliminates all people who do not subject themselves to the wishes/culture/beliefs of ISIS and so like totalitarian regimes eliminate both freedom of movement and thought. How would you deal with them and their backers?

    BTW I have travelled probably as widely than you and have spoken with both the leaders and the people of the countries under discussion.

    Oh jeeez, yeah, Gazan terrorist cowards are using their children on beaches and UN schools as human shields.

    Nuclear bombs, hah! We've got tunnels! Apparently. They're dead good ones, though. Better than the ones in the Great Escape, much more deadly.

    How can Israel get rid of these infiltration tunnels otherwise than land involvement by military engineers?

    And for those who cry for sanctions, do you agree that the sanctions should apply to both sides? Perhaps a ban on weapons and parts for weapons would be a good place to start. The Enforcement would require destruction or closing of the Hamas tunnels.

    Sanctions killed about a million Iraqis between the Gulf wars, they are not bloodless, just make for fewer pictures. In 1919 the Allied blockade of Germany killed hundreds of thousands after the armastice http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/starvation1919.html

    Economic sanctions are war by other means, and war on civilians to boot.
    So you disagree on sanctions on Russia?
    I would like to see a proper investigation first, before the tinfoil hatters muddy the waters too much.

    But if there are to be sanctions, then these should be cultural and sporting rather than economic.
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    Financier said:

    Hugh said:

    Financier said:

    Hugh said:

    Financier said:

    @SeanT

    How would you deal with states or movements within states (Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah etc) whose stated objective/ideology is the complete elimination of a neighbouring state and the annihilation of that state's people?

    Would you not agree that the leaders of armed movements are cowards when they use other people to be suicide bombers on their behalf and they use schools, hospitals etc as human shields?

    We have seen how ISIS eliminates all people who do not subject themselves to the wishes/culture/beliefs of ISIS and so like totalitarian regimes eliminate both freedom of movement and thought. How would you deal with them and their backers?

    BTW I have travelled probably as widely than you and have spoken with both the leaders and the people of the countries under discussion.

    Oh jeeez, yeah, Gazan terrorist cowards are using their children on beaches and UN schools as human shields.

    Nuclear bombs, hah! We've got tunnels! Apparently. They're dead good ones, though. Better than the ones in the Great Escape, much more deadly.

    Obviously you have never been to Gaza or experienced being among a terrorist organisation and its activities.
    Lol.

    Er, no, I've never been among a terrorist organisation. Not even the Israeli Government!

    The only existential threat Israel faces is its own behaviour. And they just can't go on like this.
    With such a blinkered view, your thinking and solution generation ability is so, so limited.
    I don't pretend to have a solution, because the only one that would work - Israel joining the civilised world or being forced to by the rest of the world as per SeanT's suggestion - will not happen.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Israel has the right to defend itself.

    It also needs to get stop running itself in a quasi-apartheid manner - particularly the West bank settlements and Gaza blockade.

    And Hamas needs to swallow some humble pie and place the Palestinians of the Gaza strip's interests above it's own.

    Khaled Mashal and Netanyahu need to stop trying to kill each other and get round a table. Sadly it seems pigs will fly before this happens right now.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Financier said:

    What would you say to the Mosul Christians or the Copts of Egypt and how do you define a heretic?

    The Coptic Christians in Egypt are, for the moment, outwith the Islamic State. Christians are People of the Book, not heretics. As for the Christians of Mosul, they chose, understandably, to flee to Kurdish territory, rather than to accept dhimmi status and to pay the jizya. Certainly, the contemporary Islamic State is relatively tolerant compared with the Almohad Caliphate, for example.
    I hope that you are kidding. ISIS is only more tolerant in the same way that the Spanish Inquisition was more tolerant than the Anti Cathar crusaders!

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    In other happy news, drug resistant malaria has spread to the Thai border.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Hugh said:

    Financier said:

    @SeanT

    How would you deal with states or movements within states (Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah etc) whose stated objective/ideology is the complete elimination of a neighbouring state and the annihilation of that state's people?

    Would you not agree that the leaders of armed movements are cowards when they use other people to be suicide bombers on their behalf and they use schools, hospitals etc as human shields?

    We have seen how ISIS eliminates all people who do not subject themselves to the wishes/culture/beliefs of ISIS and so like totalitarian regimes eliminate both freedom of movement and thought. How would you deal with them and their backers?

    BTW I have travelled probably as widely than you and have spoken with both the leaders and the people of the countries under discussion.

    Oh jeeez, yeah, Gazan terrorist cowards are using their children on beaches and UN schools as human shields.

    Nuclear bombs, hah! We've got tunnels! Apparently. They're dead good ones, though. Better than the ones in the Great Escape, much more deadly.

    How can Israel get rid of these infiltration tunnels otherwise than land involvement by military engineers?

    And for those who cry for sanctions, do you agree that the sanctions should apply to both sides? Perhaps a ban on weapons and parts for weapons would be a good place to start. The Enforcement would require destruction or closing of the Hamas tunnels.

    Sanctions killed about a million Iraqis between the Gulf wars, they are not bloodless, just make for fewer pictures. In 1919 the Allied blockade of Germany killed hundreds of thousands after the armastice http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/starvation1919.html

    Economic sanctions are war by other means, and war on civilians to boot.
    There's only one way to deal with terror tunnel infiltrators;

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uEr2h7vIzfU
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Hugh said:

    Financier said:

    Hugh said:

    Financier said:

    Hugh said:

    Financier said:

    @SeanT

    How would you deal with states or movements within states (Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah etc) whose stated objective/ideology is the complete elimination of a neighbouring state and the annihilation of that state's people?

    Would you not agree that the leaders of armed movements are cowards when they use other people to be suicide bombers on their behalf and they use schools, hospitals etc as human shields?

    We have seen how ISIS eliminates all people who do not subject themselves to the wishes/culture/beliefs of ISIS and so like totalitarian regimes eliminate both freedom of movement and thought. How would you deal with them and their backers?

    BTW I have travelled probably as widely than you and have spoken with both the leaders and the people of the countries under discussion.

    Oh jeeez, yeah, Gazan terrorist cowards are using their children on beaches and UN schools as human shields.

    Nuclear bombs, hah! We've got tunnels! Apparently. They're dead good ones, though. Better than the ones in the Great Escape, much more deadly.

    Obviously you have never been to Gaza or experienced being among a terrorist organisation and its activities.
    Lol.

    Er, no, I've never been among a terrorist organisation. Not even the Israeli Government!

    The only existential threat Israel faces is its own behaviour. And they just can't go on like this.
    With such a blinkered view, your thinking and solution generation ability is so, so limited.
    I don't pretend to have a solution, because the only one that would work - Israel joining the civilised world or being forced to by the rest of the world as per SeanT's suggestion - will not happen.
    Dare I suggest that you add Hamas to your list of people who should join the civilised world? Or should they be granted sub-civilised barbarian status?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Pulpstar said:

    Israel has the right to defend itself.

    It also needs to get stop running itself in a quasi-apartheid manner - particularly the West bank settlements and Gaza blockade.

    And Hamas needs to swallow some humble pie and place the Palestinians of the Gaza strip's interests above it's own.

    Khaled Mashal and Netanyahu need to stop trying to kill each other and get round a table. Sadly it seems pigs will fly before this happens right now.

    They are not trying to kill each other, they are trying to get re-elected.
    This is a political issue, reason has nothing to do with it.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @foxinsoxuk

    'Dare I suggest that you add Hamas to your list of people who should join the civilised world? Or should they be granted sub-civilised barbarian status?'

    ISIS is about their level.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Hugh said:

    Financier said:

    @SeanT

    How would you deal with states or movements within states (Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah etc) whose stated objective/ideology is the complete elimination of a neighbouring state and the annihilation of that state's people?

    Would you not agree that the leaders of armed movements are cowards when they use other people to be suicide bombers on their behalf and they use schools, hospitals etc as human shields?

    We have seen how ISIS eliminates all people who do not subject themselves to the wishes/culture/beliefs of ISIS and so like totalitarian regimes eliminate both freedom of movement and thought. How would you deal with them and their backers?

    BTW I have travelled probably as widely than you and have spoken with both the leaders and the people of the countries under discussion.

    Oh jeeez, yeah, Gazan terrorist cowards are using their children on beaches and UN schools as human shields.

    Nuclear bombs, hah! We've got tunnels! Apparently. They're dead good ones, though. Better than the ones in the Great Escape, much more deadly.

    How can Israel get rid of these infiltration tunnels otherwise than land involvement by military engineers?

    And for those who cry for sanctions, do you agree that the sanctions should apply to both sides? Perhaps a ban on weapons and parts for weapons would be a good place to start. The Enforcement would require destruction or closing of the Hamas tunnels.

    Sanctions killed about a million Iraqis between the Gulf wars, they are not bloodless, just make for fewer pictures. In 1919 the Allied blockade of Germany killed hundreds of thousands after the armastice http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/starvation1919.html

    Economic sanctions are war by other means, and war on civilians to boot.
    There's only one way to deal with terror tunnel infiltrators;

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uEr2h7vIzfU
    I do not think that the Hamas militants on july 17th were planning to travel quietly to Switzerland.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/tunnel-infiltration-thwarted-near-kibbutz-sufa/
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    The Germans worked out how to deal with tunnels in the POW camps, you use sound waves to locate them, then collapse them at the last moment. Saps morale better that way.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Hugh said:

    TGOHF said:

    Hugh said:

    TGOHF said:

    The UN is rubbish - pity lefties and handwringers wait until Jews are involved before slagging it off.

    Just to be clear.

    Are you accusing posters here of racism?

    Because that accusation is surely not acceptable on PB.
    Have the Israelis killed more than the Assad regime, Isis or Kim in North Korea ? There was no such wailing on here for those poor souls.
    You made an accusation racism - I quote: "waiting until Jews are involved".

    Do you stand by that?
    Quite simple - are you a racist or a hypocrite ? Are some dead more wail some than others ?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Hugh said:

    Financier said:

    @SeanT

    How would you deal with states or movements within states (Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah etc) whose stated objective/ideology is the complete elimination of a neighbouring state and the annihilation of that state's people?

    Would you not agree that the leaders of armed movements are cowards when they use other people to be suicide bombers on their behalf and they use schools, hospitals etc as human shields?

    We have seen how ISIS eliminates all people who do not subject themselves to the wishes/culture/beliefs of ISIS and so like totalitarian regimes eliminate both freedom of movement and thought. How would you deal with them and their backers?

    BTW I have travelled probably as widely than you and have spoken with both the leaders and the people of the countries under discussion.

    Oh jeeez, yeah, Gazan terrorist cowards are using their children on beaches and UN schools as human shields.

    Nuclear bombs, hah! We've got tunnels! Apparently. They're dead good ones, though. Better than the ones in the Great Escape, much more deadly.

    How can Israel get rid of these infiltration tunnels otherwise than land involvement by military engineers?

    And for those who cry for sanctions, do you agree that the sanctions should apply to both sides? Perhaps a ban on weapons and parts for weapons would be a good place to start. The Enforcement would require destruction or closing of the Hamas tunnels.

    Sanctions killed about a million Iraqis between the Gulf wars, they are not bloodless, just make for fewer pictures. In 1919 the Allied blockade of Germany killed hundreds of thousands after the armastice http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/starvation1919.html

    Economic sanctions are war by other means, and war on civilians to boot.
    There's only one way to deal with terror tunnel infiltrators;

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uEr2h7vIzfU
    I see your Great Escape and raise you Hogan's Heroes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pJrETLqFOI
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    In case you hadn't noticed, the "tunnels" were never really a threat, they were a "bolt on extra" that allowed an increase in force.
  • I hope that you are kidding. ISIS is only more tolerant in the same way that the Spanish Inquisition was more tolerant than the Anti Cathar crusaders!

    It is alleged that the papal legate at Béziers in 1209 instructed the Albigensian crusaders to "[k]ill them all. God will know his own." The Islamic State did not put all the inhabitants of Mosul to the sword upon the town's conquest. In that sense, the Caliph Ibrahim is more tolerant than the opponents of Catharism.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2014
    john_zims said:

    @foxinsoxuk

    'Dare I suggest that you add Hamas to your list of people who should join the civilised world? Or should they be granted sub-civilised barbarian status?'

    ISIS is about their level.

    I haven't seen Hamas execute people because they are not sunnis, or even crucify anyone.
    I believe they are at the same level as the muslim brotherhood in Egypt.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Hugh

    Do us a favour and watch Children of Syria,might give you some understanding of the psyche of your pals in Hamas.


    www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04c34bv

    Lyse Doucet follows the lives of six Syrian children as they cope with the war.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Speedy said:

    john_zims said:

    @foxinsoxuk

    'Dare I suggest that you add Hamas to your list of people who should join the civilised world? Or should they be granted sub-civilised barbarian status?'

    ISIS is about their level.

    I haven't seen Hamas execute people because they are not sunnis, or even crucify anyone.
    I believe they are at the same level as the muslim brotherhood in Egypt.
    I would very much like Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood to "join the civilised world" and stop forced conversions of Christians.

    http://barnabasfund.org/US/Beleaguered-Christians-in-Gaza-protest-over-conversions.html

    It is hypocritical to call for Israel to join the civilised world while turning a blind eye to Hamas barbarism.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Cllr Graham Cox is the new Tory PPC in Hove. He beat Bedford Cllr Kristy Adams for the nomination

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    regarding point 12 above - would Romney win a rerun -

    what little political antennae I have tends to listen to my 2 'focus groups'. One is my fellow Rotarians, who tend to be (but not all) Republicans, and the other is my daughter's friends at the restaurant she used to work at for mad money when she was at college. A friend of mine owns a restaurant where I lunch regularly, (didn't know lunch was a verb, huh?), so I chat with their staff too. Food industry workers tend to be (but again not all) Democratic.

    When Obama was elected, the restaurant folks were pretty excited about the prospect of Obamacare. They could have cared less about TARP. They also tend to follow politics less closely than the Rotary folks.

    As time has gone on, they have become more and more dismayed with Obama, particularly over the economy, immigration and -above all - Obamacare.

    It was sold as being better, cheaper, and universal. Most of the restaurant folks have had to sign up for Obamacare, and several have got really good deals - premiums for $30-$50 per month. The problem is not everyone got these subsidies, and some paid over $100 per month. This is an irritant to those who have to count every penny.

    It didn't take long before kids or adults needed medical procedures, and the real bad news set in. The premiums might be low, but the deductibles and copays are massive. Even a simple day surgery procedure can give you a bill for $3-$4k, which they are all too well aware, with pre-Obamacare insurance would not have happened.

    An explanation - Obamacare made great play of lower premiums (over 80% who signed up get subsisized premiums). To keep costs low, they have very low reimbursement rates to providers. This in turn means that under Obamacare you have few options. For example, under Obamacare in the county where I live, if you need a gall bladder removal you have only one doctor who will do it. Under my policy there are over 35.

    So these unfortunate folks have realized the truth about Obamacare at last, and feel cheated: yes, it gives you health insurance, at the cost of huge deductibles, but severely limits access to healthcare. As more and more folks find this out they are angry.

    The other is immigration - merely because these folks are low paid doesn't make them stupid. They are almost all angry at the current influx of young folks across our borders, and know it is a manufactured crisis. Like most low paid workers they know that mass immigration is a threat to their jobs.

    The are almost all annoyed - it doesn't make them vote Republican but they feel used.

    The Rotary folks - they're comparatively easy - they predicted it and are in 'told you so' mode.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Cllr Graham Cox is the new Tory PPC in Hove. He beat Bedford Cllr Kristy Adams for the nomination

    Good God! I fear that may prove to be an unwise choice.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Tim_B said:

    regarding point 12 above - would Romney win a rerun -

    [snipped for space] ... A friend of mine owns a restaurant where I lunch regularly, (didn't know lunch was a verb, huh?), so I chat with their staff too. Food industry workers tend to be (but again not all) Democratic.

    When Obama was elected, the restaurant folks were pretty excited about the prospect of Obamacare. They could have cared less about TARP. They also tend to follow politics less closely than the Rotary folks.

    As time has gone on, they have become more and more dismayed with Obama, particularly over the economy, immigration and -above all - Obamacare.

    It was sold as being better, cheaper, and universal. Most of the restaurant folks have had to sign up for Obamacare, and several have got really good deals - premiums for $30-$50 per month. The problem is not everyone got these subsidies, and some paid over $100 per month. This is an irritant to those who have to count every penny.

    It didn't take long before kids or adults needed medical procedures, and the real bad news set in. The premiums might be low, but the deductibles and copays are massive. Even a simple day surgery procedure can give you a bill for $3-$4k, which they are all too well aware, with pre-Obamacare insurance would not have happened.

    An explanation - Obamacare made great play of lower premiums (over 80% who signed up get subsisized premiums). To keep costs low, they have very low reimbursement rates to providers. This in turn means that under Obamacare you have few options. For example, under Obamacare in the county where I live, if you need a gall bladder removal you have only one doctor who will do it. Under my policy there are over 35.

    So these unfortunate folks have realized the truth about Obamacare at last, and feel cheated: yes, it gives you health insurance, at the cost of huge deductibles, but severely limits access to healthcare. As more and more folks find this out they are angry.

    The other is immigration - merely because these folks are low paid doesn't make them stupid. They are almost all angry at the current influx of young folks across our borders, and know it is a manufactured crisis. Like most low paid workers they know that mass immigration is a threat to their jobs.

    The are almost all annoyed - it doesn't make them vote Republican but they feel used.

    The Rotary folks - they're comparatively easy - they predicted it and are in 'told you so' mode.

    A very interesting post, Mr. B. I wonder what chance these newly disillusioned people will vote other than Democrat next time.

    P.S. The use of the word "Lunch" as a verb has been quite commonplace over here for quite some time. Its deplorable but, like so many other ghastly Americanisms, there seems nothing to be done about it.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    regarding point 12 above - would Romney win a rerun -

    [snipped for space] ... A friend of mine owns a restaurant where I lunch regularly, (didn't know lunch was a verb, huh?), so I chat with their staff too. Food industry workers tend to be (but again not all) Democratic.

    When Obama was elected, the restaurant folks were pretty excited about the prospect of Obamacare. They could have cared less about TARP. They also tend to follow politics less closely than the Rotary folks.

    As time has gone on, they have become more and more dismayed with Obama, particularly over the economy, immigration and -above all - Obamacare.

    It was sold as being better, cheaper, and universal. Most of the restaurant folks have had to sign up for Obamacare, and several have got really good deals - premiums for $30-$50 per month. The problem is not everyone got these subsidies, and some paid over $100 per month. This is an irritant to those who have to count every penny.

    It didn't take long before kids or adults needed medical procedures, and the real bad news set in. The premiums might be low, but the deductibles and copays are massive. Even a simple day surgery procedure can give you a bill for $3-$4k, which they are all too well aware, with pre-Obamacare insurance would not have happened.

    An explanation - Obamacare made great play of lower premiums (over 80% who signed up get subsisized premiums). To keep costs low, they have very low reimbursement rates to providers. This in turn means that under Obamacare you have few options. For example, under Obamacare in the county where I live, if you need a gall bladder removal you have only one doctor who will do it. Under my policy there are over 35.

    So these unfortunate folks have realized the truth about Obamacare at last, and feel cheated: yes, it gives you health insurance, at the cost of huge deductibles, but severely limits access to healthcare. As more and more folks find this out they are angry.

    The other is immigration - merely because these folks are low paid doesn't make them stupid. They are almost all angry at the current influx of young folks across our borders, and know it is a manufactured crisis. Like most low paid workers they know that mass immigration is a threat to their jobs.

    The are almost all annoyed - it doesn't make them vote Republican but they feel used.
    .

    A very interesting post, Mr. B. I wonder what chance these newly disillusioned people will vote other than Democrat next time.

    P.S. The use of the word "Lunch" as a verb has been quite commonplace over here for quite some time. Its deplorable but, like so many other ghastly Americanisms, there seems nothing to be done about it.
    I doubt many will boldly go (Americanism alert) downtown, see it thru and vote Republican, but some could just stay home. It's early days yet.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Tim_B said:


    I doubt many will boldly go (Americanism alert) downtown, see it thru and vote Republican, but some could just stay home. It's early days yet.

    3 cliches and 1 Americanism in one short sentence.

    I'm impressed ;-)
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,590



    P.S. The use of the word "Lunch" as a verb has been quite commonplace over here for quite some time. Its deplorable but, like so many other ghastly Americanisms, there seems nothing to be done about it.

    In America, every noun can be verbed.

  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095



    P.S. The use of the word "Lunch" as a verb has been quite commonplace over here for quite some time. Its deplorable but, like so many other ghastly Americanisms, there seems nothing to be done about it.

    In America, every noun can be verbed.

    and amongst them, burglarised is one of the ghastliest
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Team Scotland’s success in the Commonwealth Games is not translating into increased support for independence. According to Mike Smithson, a leading betting analyst, trading at Betfair suggests just a 14.2 per cent chance of a “yes” vote in September’s referendum.

    The findings will disappoint Alex Salmond and the nationalists who will have hoped that the feelgood factor around Glasgow 2014 would provide a boost for their campaign.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4162700.ece
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Speedy, on Hamas winning an election (in Gaza): they did, but later they completely wiped out (throwing some from rooftops) Fatah in Gaza.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    edited July 2014
    OT as it seems that OGH is having a lie-in.

    More than a quarter of Wales' four and five-year-olds are overweight - with more than one-in-10 classed as obese, say public health officials.

    Merthyr Tydfil tops the league for weight issues in young children, with 34% regarded as overweight.

    Public Health Wales looked at the Body Mass Index (BMI) of just over 1,000 children starting primary school - with a BMI over 25 considered unhealthy.

    Across Wales, 26% were over that BMI - while in England it was just 22%.

    The average figures for Wales are also higher than the worst region of England - which is the north-east, where 24% of four and five-year-olds have slipped into the overweight BMI zone.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-28567638

    This state of affairs is really horrific and shows a mixture of ignorance, laziness or just don't-care by their parents.

    Methyr Tydfil is an unemployment hot-spot and is there a link between unemployment and lack of willingness/ability by parents to involve themselves with their children in meaningful physical activities and games, and also to eat the right foods?
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11001515/Ed-Balls-Even-Labour-supporters-doubt-us-on-the-economy.html

    Hmmm with a Tory lead of 14% on the economy, 8% on taxation, and 5% on employment (gasp), not sure if the summer Labour slogan of

    "The Choice: The Labour Future / The Tory Threat.”

    rings true.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,144



    P.S. The use of the word "Lunch" as a verb has been quite commonplace over here for quite some time. Its deplorable but, like so many other ghastly Americanisms, there seems nothing to be done about it.

    In America, every noun can be verbed.

    And all the way back again; I believe I read the abomination 'taskings' somewhere recently.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    What Israel is doing is disgusting and outrageous. That's the only way to describe it.

    Hamas although seem intent in throwing Palestine into hell to combat Israel. Both sides have the power to end this, but both sides seem that they don't want to.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Cllr Graham Cox is the new Tory PPC in Hove. He beat Bedford Cllr Kristy Adams for the nomination

    He still playing guitar for Blur ? ;)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11001478/Nurses-paid-rates-of-150-an-hour-to-work-bank-holidays.html

    Seem to remember PB Tories saying comedy gold when I talked about agency rates of 5 times NHS rates. Well an NHS Bank Holiday shift including on costs is £300

    So rates of up to six times according to Torygraph
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11001478/Nurses-paid-rates-of-150-an-hour-to-work-bank-holidays.html

    Seem to remember PB Tories saying comedy gold when I talked about agency rates of 5 times NHS rates. Well an NHS Bank Holiday shift including on costs is £300

    So rates of up to six times according to Torygraph

    Poor management .
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Speedy, on Hamas winning an election (in Gaza): they did, but later they completely wiped out (throwing some from rooftops) Fatah in Gaza.

    MD, is that where the coalition went wrong in 2010?
    (For the avoidance of doubt, this is a joke)


  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Slackbladder, really? It takes two to make peace, and one to make war. Both sides can unilaterally keep the conflict going, but some degree of agreement is needed to end it.

    Mr. Pubgoer, I bet they're now regretting not funding a space cannon to fire senior Labour politicians into the heart of the sun.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    BBC -"Argentina has defaulted on its debt - for the second time in 13 years - after last-minute talks in New York with a group of bond-holders ended in failure."

    No doubt blowhard de Kirchner will play her distraction card and demand the return of the Channel Isles....


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28578179
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    What Israel is doing is disgusting and outrageous. That's the only way to describe it.

    Hamas although seem intent in throwing Palestine into hell to combat Israel. Both sides have the power to end this, but both sides seem that they don't want to.

    No only Israel has the power, Hamas are the victims confined to their modern day Gulag. This was a premeditated invasion utilising a trumped up excuse to destroy the Palestinian unity government as well as kill as many Muslim and Christian Palestinians as possible.

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israel-right-or-wrong/
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Scott_P said:

    Team Scotland’s success in the Commonwealth Games is not translating into increased support for independence. According to Mike Smithson, a leading betting analyst, trading at Betfair suggests just a 14.2 per cent chance of a “yes” vote in September’s referendum.

    The findings will disappoint Alex Salmond and the nationalists who will have hoped that the feelgood factor around Glasgow 2014 would provide a boost for their campaign.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4162700.ece

    Does the Times mention the lack of polling since the Games started, and also that Shadsy has reported increased support for Yes?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    A very senior nurse in the NHS on 1 April 2010 earned £27,534

    That same nurse on 31 March 2015 will earn £27,901

    An increase of 1.33% over 5 years or 0.2% pa

    Agency rates over the same period have approximately doubled.

    The trickle of permanent Nurses making the decision to ditch NHS contracts and move to providing an Agency Nurse service on much more favorable terms is turning into a flood.

    The cost of living crisis is a fact of life for NHS nurses.

    Awaits responses from COLC deniers.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701
    TGOHF said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11001478/Nurses-paid-rates-of-150-an-hour-to-work-bank-holidays.html

    Seem to remember PB Tories saying comedy gold when I talked about agency rates of 5 times NHS rates. Well an NHS Bank Holiday shift including on costs is £300

    So rates of up to six times according to Torygraph

    Poor management .
    Bloody hell, I used to get Time Off In Lieu, plus admittedly an annual allowance for being preapred to do them, which amounted to raising me one salary level And I had to to be prepared to do any of them. And a weekend every so often.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    TGOHF said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11001478/Nurses-paid-rates-of-150-an-hour-to-work-bank-holidays.html

    Seem to remember PB Tories saying comedy gold when I talked about agency rates of 5 times NHS rates. Well an NHS Bank Holiday shift including on costs is £300

    So rates of up to six times according to Torygraph

    Poor management .
    Supply and Demand
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    TGOHF said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11001478/Nurses-paid-rates-of-150-an-hour-to-work-bank-holidays.html

    Seem to remember PB Tories saying comedy gold when I talked about agency rates of 5 times NHS rates. Well an NHS Bank Holiday shift including on costs is £300

    So rates of up to six times according to Torygraph

    Poor management .
    Bloody hell, I used to get Time Off In Lieu, plus admittedly an annual allowance for being preapred to do them, which amounted to raising me one salary level And I had to to be prepared to do any of them. And a weekend every so often.
    Lack of imaginative management
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    So Cameron's bribe on the 40p tax threshold will net someone on £44k a whole £425 a year (44000-41875)*0.2. Pretty slim pickings compared to the tax cut someone on £200k got when the rate when down to 45p
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Scott_P said:

    Team Scotland’s success in the Commonwealth Games is not translating into increased support for independence. According to Mike Smithson, a leading betting analyst, trading at Betfair suggests just a 14.2 per cent chance of a “yes” vote in September’s referendum.

    The findings will disappoint Alex Salmond and the nationalists who will have hoped that the feelgood factor around Glasgow 2014 would provide a boost for their campaign.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4162700.eceOGH will 'rue the day'......

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited July 2014

    Scott_P said:

    Team Scotland’s success in the Commonwealth Games is not translating into increased support for independence. According to Mike Smithson, a leading betting analyst, trading at Betfair suggests just a 14.2 per cent chance of a “yes” vote in September’s referendum.

    The findings will disappoint Alex Salmond and the nationalists who will have hoped that the feelgood factor around Glasgow 2014 would provide a boost for their campaign.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4162700.ece
    OGH will 'rue the day'......

    Joking aside, I'm rather concerned, - hope the old boy is just having a lay in.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    edited July 2014

    Scott_P said:

    Team Scotland’s success in the Commonwealth Games is not translating into increased support for independence. According to Mike Smithson, a leading betting analyst, trading at Betfair suggests just a 14.2 per cent chance of a “yes” vote in September’s referendum.

    The findings will disappoint Alex Salmond and the nationalists who will have hoped that the feelgood factor around Glasgow 2014 would provide a boost for their campaign.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4162700.ece
    Does the Times mention the lack of polling since the Games started, and also that Shadsy has reported increased support for Yes?

    The Times has lost the plot , London centric crap. Yesterday they were lying about what Bolt said , today they publish that absolute bilge. Desperate unionists clutching at straws. Using Betfair as a measure makes voodoo polls 100% accurate.

    You could as easily say that due to 60% of all bets being for YES that they are certain to win , if you were as stupid as some of the frothers on here of course.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701
    Financier said:

    TGOHF said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11001478/Nurses-paid-rates-of-150-an-hour-to-work-bank-holidays.html

    Seem to remember PB Tories saying comedy gold when I talked about agency rates of 5 times NHS rates. Well an NHS Bank Holiday shift including on costs is £300

    So rates of up to six times according to Torygraph

    Poor management .
    Bloody hell, I used to get Time Off In Lieu, plus admittedly an annual allowance for being preapred to do them, which amounted to raising me one salary level And I had to to be prepared to do any of them. And a weekend every so often.
    Lack of imaginative management
    Plus, I suggest, staff demoralisation, at least partly due to the sort of salary rises cited by Mr Owls.
  • Please can we have a new thread? This nighthawks chat is wandering around like a drunk.

    Ed is crap
    Neverendum
    UKIP something or other
    Polling something or other
    Do we HAVE to have the LibDEms in a coalition in 2015?
    Which UK politician is most in need of a good hard punch?
    Anything
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    So Cameron's bribe on the 40p tax threshold will net someone on £44k a whole £425 a year (44000-41875)*0.2. Pretty slim pickings compared to the tax cut someone on £200k got when the rate when down to 45p

    its a myth that people paying 45p tax are rich, at the lower end of the 45p bracket that is
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Patrick said:

    Please can we have a new thread? This nighthawks chat is wandering around like a drunk.

    Ed is crap
    Neverendum
    UKIP something or other
    Polling something or other
    Do we HAVE to have the LibDEms in a coalition in 2015?
    Which UK politician is most in need of a good hard punch?
    Anything

    Ed's guru's latest gaffe ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    Out of curiosity, why the animosity towards Hannibal in point 15? Yes, he made mistakes and he was well beaten by Scipio using better tactics, but that hardly makes him 'vastly overrated'. Winning three battles against the Romans in Italy was a major military achievement that led to dramatic changes in Roman law and culture,and he might well have conquered the entire Republic barring political intriguing by his enemies in Carthage.

    If you want a really over-rated general, try Napoleon Bonaparte - a man who had a tendency to buy victory at the cost of enormous losses among his troops.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    MikeK said:
    Indeed.

    And where oh where is t*m when we need him on his special subject?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Patrick said:

    Do we HAVE to have the LibDEms in a coalition in 2015?

    If the LibDems stay at around 8%, they're not likely to be in a coalition; in fact, I'd be very surprised if they had more than a dozen seats in that scenario.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    New Thread
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Doethur, new thread so I'll post here and copy and paste the answer there as well.

    There's a long-running conflict between the forces of enlightenment, wisdom and reason (me) and those of silly sausages and historically illiterate obdurate types (Mr. Eagles) regarding whether Hannibal or Caesar was the better general. The answer, of course, is that Hannibal was better, by miles.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    What Israel is doing is disgusting and outrageous. That's the only way to describe it.

    Hamas although seem intent in throwing Palestine into hell to combat Israel. Both sides have the power to end this, but both sides seem that they don't want to.

    Yes - all one big game for Hamas and Likud, sadly.
  • hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    Patrick said:

    Please can we have a new thread? This nighthawks chat is wandering around like a drunk.

    Ed is crap
    Neverendum
    UKIP something or other
    Polling something or other
    Do we HAVE to have the LibDEms in a coalition in 2015?
    Which UK politician is most in need of a good hard punch?
    Anything


    Not just this night thread. While there are new media stories to discuss, new polls and new betting odds, there is always a daily repeat of the same old stuff. I think judging by some of the comments that some have broken keyboards, as they seem to keep typing the same comments every day, so must have limited letters to use.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    TGOHF said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11001478/Nurses-paid-rates-of-150-an-hour-to-work-bank-holidays.html

    Seem to remember PB Tories saying comedy gold when I talked about agency rates of 5 times NHS rates. Well an NHS Bank Holiday shift including on costs is £300

    So rates of up to six times according to Torygraph

    Poor management .
    Just sent an FOI to your favourite Trust will let you know how poor their management is within 20 days.
This discussion has been closed.