politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » For YouGov trend spotting these are the best figures to watch not the daily polls
After the LAB lead dropped from 6% on Monday night to 1% last night there’s been a lot of discussion about the volatility of the firm’s out. In reality, of course, both of this week’s polls have been within the margin of error.
Lab: it's not a fair recovery I'm not seeing it, Lab will make it fair and I will see it Cons: we were in a hole, Cons got us out of it and we are growing. Lab will c*ck it up again
My guess is that we will see cross over between the Lib Dems and UKIP in the next few months, at least with Yougov. Cross over between the big 2 is proving more elusive and I am increasingly doubting that Yougov will show that, at least on the monthly basis shown in the tables before the election. No doubt there will be the odd poll, indeed it is positively weird there has not been some already given the MOE and the comparative closeness of the scores, but a consistent lead looks unattainable with this pollster at least.
My guess is that we will see cross over between the Lib Dems and UKIP in the next few months, at least with Yougov. Cross over between the big 2 is proving more elusive and I am increasingly doubting that Yougov will show that, at least on the monthly basis shown in the tables before the election. No doubt there will be the odd poll, indeed it is positively weird there has not been some already given the MOE and the comparative closeness of the scores, but a consistent lead looks unattainable with this pollster at least.
My guess is that we will see cross over between the Lib Dems and UKIP in the next few months, at least with Yougov. Cross over between the big 2 is proving more elusive and I am increasingly doubting that Yougov will show that, at least on the monthly basis shown in the tables before the election. No doubt there will be the odd poll, indeed it is positively weird there has not been some already given the MOE and the comparative closeness of the scores, but a consistent lead looks unattainable with this pollster at least.
TSE : "When a hard working and diligent candidate like Marcus Wood can't win Torbay you know Sanders and the Lib Dems are strong in that part of the world. "
Ah, but the LibDems' share of the vote nationally has fallen by more than half since the last GE. If the Tories can't capture Torbay then the LibDems should be backed to win >40 seats. Personally I don't see it.
TSE : "When a hard working and diligent candidate like Marcus Wood can't win Torbay you know Sanders and the Lib Dems are strong in that part of the world. "
Ah, but the LibDems' share of the vote nationally has fallen by more than half since the last GE. If the Tories can't capture Torbay then the LibDems should be backed to win >40 seats. Personally I don't see it.
I'm "green" as it were on the outcome and Kevin Foster is a personal friend of mine, but I still think he is odds against. (9-4 was generous whilst it was about though)
Sir Keir Starmer officially announces his bid for Holborn and St Pancrass Labour selection if the NEC will make it an Open shortlist (as there're any doubt that it will be Open...)
He already got endorsements from Tessa Jowell, Helena Kennedy, Trevor Phillips, Mary Honeyball MEP, Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead & Kilburn PPC, defeated by 2 votes in 2012 Camden leadership election by Sarah Hayward who will probably be Starmer's main opponent in the selection), the Chair of Kings Cross Mosque, Fiona Millar and a couple of Cllrs. ASLEF also declared their backing for him.
Sir Keir Starmer officially announces his bid for Holborn and St Pancrass Labour selection if the NEC will make it an Open shortlist (as there're any doubt that it will be Open...)
He already got endorsements from Tessa Jowell, Helena Kennedy, Trevor Phillips, Mary Honeyball MEP, Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead & Kilburn PPC, defeated by 2 votes in 2012 Camden leadership election by Sarah Hayward who will probably be Starmer's main opponent in the selection), the Chair of Kings Cross Mosque, Fiona Millar and a couple of Cllrs. ASLEF also declared their backing for him.
TSE : "When a hard working and diligent candidate like Marcus Wood can't win Torbay you know Sanders and the Lib Dems are strong in that part of the world. "
Ah, but the LibDems' share of the vote nationally has fallen by more than half since the last GE. If the Tories can't capture Torbay then the LibDems should be backed to win >40 seats. Personally I don't see it.
Lib Dems can hold onto Torbay and be under 40 seats - easily.
Here are the seats I reckon they can lose whilst still holding on in the bay:
"It would be an honour for anyone to succeed Frank Dobson. It will now be for the party to agree the process and timetable but if it is an open shortlist I intend to seek selection from members of Holborn and St Pancras, my home for over 15 years." "Our constituency needs an MP who will continue Frank’s principled campaigning, fight to get the Tories out of power and be able to influence a future Labour government. I believe I can bring my experience as a human rights lawyer, DPP and campaigner to do that. I am only too aware of the impact that politics has on the daily lives of all of us."
Sir Keir Starmer officially announces his bid for Holborn and St Pancrass Labour selection if the NEC will make it an Open shortlist (as there're any doubt that it will be Open...)
He already got endorsements from Tessa Jowell, Helena Kennedy, Trevor Phillips, Mary Honeyball MEP, Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead & Kilburn PPC, defeated by 2 votes in 2012 Camden leadership election by Sarah Hayward who will probably be Starmer's main opponent in the selection), the Chair of Kings Cross Mosque, Fiona Millar and a couple of Cllrs. ASLEF also declared their backing for him.
Interesting that Daley says: "I suspect that this measure was slipped into the Budget by Treasury officials with little attention being paid to it by George Osborne or his advisers," because Damian MacBride surmised the same origin for the omnishambles budget -- treasury officials waiting till Osborne was not looking and then slipping in items from the shopping list that Gordon Brown had annually rejected for the past decade.
Why is India relatively terrible at sport? It's got over a billion people. Is it because cricket dominates the sporting landscape so everything else is a poor relation?
England tops the medal table, matching Oz’s 34 golds, but pipping them on silver 34/31.
Hopefully some good TV coverage to catch up on this evening.
India in 6th place. Second only to the Aussies in 2010 - being the host nation helped
The ‘home team’ advantage is quite fascinating as a motivational force – can never decide if it is the support of ones fellow countrymen, or the fear of disappointing them which spurs athletes on.
Why is India relatively terrible at sport? It's got over a billion people. Is it because cricket dominates the sporting landscape so everything else is a poor relation?
Dr. Prasannan, picking a single data point doesn't constitute a potent argument.
Edited extra bit: India's got more people than England and Australia combined, and had home advantage. It should be dominating the Commonwealth in sporting terms.
If we're discussing the Commonwealth Games Medal Table, how about a kind word for New Zealand (Mrs Stodge would approve) sitting in fifth place. Population the size of Wales but not far behind Canada and Scotland in terms of medals.
Dr. Prasannan, picking a single data point doesn't constitute a potent argument.
Edited extra bit: India's got more people than England and Australia combined, and had home advantage. It should be dominating the Commonwealth in sporting terms.
WeThey came fourth in the medals in 2006 and 2002.
If we're discussing the Commonwealth Games Medal Table, how about a kind word for New Zealand (Mrs Stodge would approve) sitting in fifth place. Population the size of Wales but not far behind Canada and Scotland in terms of medals.
Every time I have turned on the telly there seems to be someone from NZ picking up a medal. An incredible performance for such a small country.
Mr. L, the measure's appalling and should be halted at once.
Agree entirely. If the Lib Dems had a backbone they'd stop it. This is about making sure that the executive is subject to the law. The idea that the state should be able to do what it wants just because some civil servant is too bloody lazy or unwilling to have their actions scrutinized to get a court order is a disgrace. Even more of a disgrace that the Conservatives are behind it.
Agree entirely. If the Lib Dems had a backbone they'd stop it. This is about making sure that the executive is subject to the law. The idea that the state should be able to do what it wants just because some civil servant is too bloody lazy or unwilling to have their actions scrutinized to get a court order is a disgrace. Even more of a disgrace that the Conservatives are behind it.
Janet Daley, and indeed most people who have got indignant about this, seem remarkably ignorant about the absolutely draconian powers of Customs & Excise officers, powers which have existed since time immemorial. It is quite simply wrong to say that it is something new in principle.
Agree entirely. If the Lib Dems had a backbone they'd stop it. This is about making sure that the executive is subject to the law. The idea that the state should be able to do what it wants just because some civil servant is too bloody lazy or unwilling to have their actions scrutinized to get a court order is a disgrace. Even more of a disgrace that the Conservatives are behind it.
Janet Daley, and indeed most people who have got indignant about this, seem remarkably ignorant about the absolutely draconian powers of Customs & Excise officers, powers which have existed since time immemorial. It is quite simply wrong to say that it is something new in principle.
Agree entirely. If the Lib Dems had a backbone they'd stop it. This is about making sure that the executive is subject to the law. The idea that the state should be able to do what it wants just because some civil servant is too bloody lazy or unwilling to have their actions scrutinized to get a court order is a disgrace. Even more of a disgrace that the Conservatives are behind it.
Janet Daley, and indeed most people who have got indignant about this, seem remarkably ignorant about the absolutely draconian powers of Customs & Excise officers, powers which have existed since time immemorial. It is quite simply wrong to say that it is something new in principle.
Agree entirely. If the Lib Dems had a backbone they'd stop it. This is about making sure that the executive is subject to the law. The idea that the state should be able to do what it wants just because some civil servant is too bloody lazy or unwilling to have their actions scrutinized to get a court order is a disgrace. Even more of a disgrace that the Conservatives are behind it.
Janet Daley, and indeed most people who have got indignant about this, seem remarkably ignorant about the absolutely draconian powers of Customs & Excise officers, powers which have existed since time immemorial. It is quite simply wrong to say that it is something new in principle.
Just because one part of the executive has got excessive powers does not mean that these should be extended. I thought you were a Conservative. The state should be the servant of the people not its master. No point Cameron wittering about Magna Carta and British values but not understanding that making the executive subject to the law and the scrutiny of the courts is one of the key battles of British history and not to be thrown away just to make matters administratively convenient for the taxman.
This is the key point. Any civil servant who would have even dared propose this to Mrs T. would have been seen swinging by a rope from Westminster Lamp post that night.
The very fact that Osborne and Cameron allowed this to even be mooted shows they cannot be conservatives. They are just big government corporatists with better PR than labour.
Taxmen have draconian powers. That is a fact of life. They can close down your company, bankrupt your personally, seize your car or indeed any assets they like, or freeze your bank account (which basically makes it impossible to live), at the drop of a hat. They can grab your salary before it's even paid to you.
Is this an unacceptable extension of such powers? Maybe it is, but I do object to idiotic comments like Janet Daley saying "a basic premise of democratic government cannot be overturned". It has never been a basic premise of democratic government that customs officers and tax inspectors need a court order to seize assets. Maybe it should be, but it never has been in the past - so let's be accurate, shall we? Taxmen can already seize your assets without a court order:
On the particular point, it doesn't seem as draconian as many of the existing powers. At least you get some warning and a chance to make representations.
Taxmen have draconian powers. That is a fact of life. They can close down your company, bankrupt your personally, seize your car or indeed any assets they like, or freeze your bank account (which basically makes it impossible to live), at the drop of a hat. They can grab your salary before it's even paid to you.
Is this an unacceptable extension of such powers? Maybe it is, but I do object to idiotic comments like Janet Daley saying "a basic premise of democratic government cannot be overturned". It has never been a basic premise of democratic government that customs officers and tax inspectors need a court order to seize assets. Maybe it should be, but it never has been in the past - so let's be accurate, shall we? Taxmen can already seize your assets without a court order:
On the particular point, it doesn't seem as draconian as many of the existing powers. At least you get some warning and a chance to make representations.
I take it, Mr Brooke, that you've never run a small company which got onto arrears with it's tax payments. A bailiff can appear on your premises and seize goods if you can't produce the cash. Not a cheque; either the cash or a bankers draft.
The logic of @Richard_Nabavi's position seems to be as follows. Suppose a policeman had the power to arrest any person without cause and detain him for a week without charge, but that such power were only exercisable north of Leeds. It follows that no one should complain if the power were extended to policemen throughout the country.
The logic of @Richard_Nabavi's position seems to be as follows. Suppose a policeman had the power to arrest any person without cause and detain him for a week without charge, but that such power were only exercisable north of Leeds. It follows that no one should complain if the power were extended to policemen throughout the country.
No, the logic of my position is that an argument should be based on fact. In your hypothetical example, Janet Daley's argument would be tantamount to denying that policemen anywhere in the country had such power.
If she had written 'HMRC already have powers to seize assets without a court order, why do they need any more powers?', that would have been a fair point, which one could assess on its merits.
Taxmen have draconian powers. That is a fact of life. They can close down your company, bankrupt your personally, seize your car or indeed any assets they like, or freeze your bank account (which basically makes it impossible to live), at the drop of a hat. They can grab your salary before it's even paid to you.
Is this an unacceptable extension of such powers? Maybe it is, but I do object to idiotic comments like Janet Daley saying "a basic premise of democratic government cannot be overturned". It has never been a basic premise of democratic government that customs officers and tax inspectors need a court order to seize assets. Maybe it should be, but it never has been in the past - so let's be accurate, shall we? Taxmen can already seize your assets without a court order:
On the particular point, it doesn't seem as draconian as many of the existing powers. At least you get some warning and a chance to make representations.
An attachment of earnings order requires a court order; so does making someone bankrupt. So does freezing of bank accounts. That is the point.
It really does not take much effort to go to court to say this person owes this much money - and this is how it has been worked out - and has been asked to pay on these number of occasions and here is the proof and here is an affidavit to say that no reply has been received and here is this person's account and we are only taking what we are legally due and if we get it wrong you the court can reverse this and order us to pay penalties. Any competent legal department can sort this out pdq and it provides some check and balance as does the court scrutiny.
And, yet, HMRC want to avoid all that, for no good reason that they have articulated and every responsible organisation which has commented has said what a terrible idea it is but it's all right, you say, because some other part of the agency can also exercise powers and do terrible things to you so why not this as well.
Hammond has apparently admitted that the EU sanctions on Russia will affect the UK economy. I couldn't find the original source/interview, but he's quoted on RT: http://rt.com/uk/176696-eu-sanctions-russia-economy/
Can anyone explain to me how our politicians are prepared to sacrifice the all too fragile recovery of our own economy on the basis of zero evidence, before the reporting of any enquiry into MH-17? Who are prepared to take us to the brink of conflict with the world's 2nd biggest nuclear power? It's like some insane parallel universe. And it's these same student politician amateur adventurers having their infantile 'COBRA' meetings who warn of the 'dangers' of a party like UKIP coming to power.
@Luckyguy1983 Everybody gets a chance to strike a manly jaw jutting pose for the cameras, the risk of nuclear annihilation is a mere afterthought to a good media opportunity. ;-)
Taxmen have draconian powers. That is a fact of life. They can close down your company, bankrupt your personally, seize your car or indeed any assets they like, or freeze your bank account (which basically makes it impossible to live), at the drop of a hat. They can grab your salary before it's even paid to you.
Is this an unacceptable extension of such powers? Maybe it is, but I do object to idiotic comments like Janet Daley saying "a basic premise of democratic government cannot be overturned". It has never been a basic premise of democratic government that customs officers and tax inspectors need a court order to seize assets. Maybe it should be, but it never has been in the past - so let's be accurate, shall we? Taxmen can already seize your assets without a court order:
On the particular point, it doesn't seem as draconian as many of the existing powers. At least you get some warning and a chance to make representations.
Spot on.
If you don't like it then pay your bloody taxes.
Screeching Tea Party extremist lunatics like Daley can take a short walk off a long pier.
No, the logic of my position is that an argument should be based on fact. In your hypothetical example, Janet Daley's argument would be tantamount to denying that policemen anywhere in the country had such power.
If she had written 'HMRC already have powers to seize assets without a court order, why do they need any more powers?', that would have been a fair point, which one could assess on its merits.
So let us be clear. Do you support the principle that the state should be permitted to seize the property of a person, who is alleged to be in arrears with HMRC, without a court order?
No, the logic of my position is that an argument should be based on fact. In your hypothetical example, Janet Daley's argument would be tantamount to denying that policemen anywhere in the country had such power.
If she had written 'HMRC already have powers to seize assets without a court order, why do they need any more powers?', that would have been a fair point, which one could assess on its merits.
So let us be clear. Do you support the principle that the state should be permitted to seize the property of a person, who is alleged to be in arrears with HMRC, without a court order?
He only supports it if it is proposed by a Tory government. If it is proposed by a Labour government then it is an utterly unacceptable extension of government powers that would not be out of place in a left wing dictatorship.
So let us be clear. Do you support the principle that the state should be permitted to seize the property of a person, who is alleged to be in arrears with HMRC, without a court order?
Well, put it this way, for my entire life the state has had that power, and I've never heard anyone suggest that the power should have been taken away. I believe it's the same in most democracies. Of course, there is not the end of the matter; this is actually about whether, in a dispute, after four warnings, and in very well-defined circumstances, the alleged tax gets paid first and then paid back if the taxpayer wins in court, rather than vice versa.
Taxmen have draconian powers. That is a fact of life. They can close down your company, bankrupt your personally, seize your car or indeed any assets they like, or freeze your bank account (which basically makes it impossible to live), at the drop of a hat. They can grab your salary before it's even paid to you.
Is this an unacceptable extension of such powers? Maybe it is, but I do object to idiotic comments like Janet Daley saying "a basic premise of democratic government cannot be overturned". It has never been a basic premise of democratic government that customs officers and tax inspectors need a court order to seize assets. Maybe it should be, but it never has been in the past - so let's be accurate, shall we? Taxmen can already seize your assets without a court order:
On the particular point, it doesn't seem as draconian as many of the existing powers. At least you get some warning and a chance to make representations.
Spot on.
If you don't like it then pay your bloody taxes.
Screeching Tea Party extremist lunatics like Daley can take a short walk off a long pier.
Ah Hugh. Another moron who has forgotten that the government is supposed to serve the people not the other way round.
Screeching Tea Party extremist lunatics like Daley can take a short walk off a long pier.
Absurd and unthinking authoritarianism. If Parliament abolished the general principle that a warrant was needed before a person's home could be searched by a constable, few would be reassured if they were told that if they didn't like the position, they should obey the law. This is simply an extension of "the nothing to hide, nothing to fear" doctrine.
Taxmen have draconian powers. That is a fact of life. .
If something is draconian, then should not the automatic reaction be to address things to make them less draconian across the board, not accept that draconian powers are facts of life and accept draconian measures elsewhere? By definition draconian means excessively harsh, and if things already are draconian, that does not mean increasing or even merely not reversing the excessively harsh reality should be accepted.
Taxmen have draconian powers. That is a fact of life. They can close down your company, bankrupt your personally, seize your car or indeed any assets they like, or freeze your bank account (which basically makes it impossible to live), at the drop of a hat. They can grab your salary before it's even paid to you.
Is this an unacceptable extension of such powers? Maybe it is, but I do object to idiotic comments like Janet Daley saying "a basic premise of democratic government cannot be overturned". It has never been a basic premise of democratic government that customs officers and tax inspectors need a court order to seize assets. Maybe it should be, but it never has been in the past - so let's be accurate, shall we? Taxmen can already seize your assets without a court order:
On the particular point, it doesn't seem as draconian as many of the existing powers. At least you get some warning and a chance to make representations.
Spot on.
If you don't like it then pay your bloody taxes.
Screeching Tea Party extremist lunatics like Daley can take a short walk off a long pier.
Yeah: let's give the agency which lost all our child benefit records because they didn't have the wit to comply with basic IT security, the agency which doesn't even answer the phone half the time, the power to seize money from our bank accounts without having to prove anything at all. They could get the name wrong, take the money and the poor bloody taxpayer who has paid his taxes has to pay money to lawyers to get his money back. All because HMRC can't be bothered.
I do pay my taxes. I have been overtaxed and HMRC have owed me money. I can't dip into their account to get MY money back. I have to wait months and months and I don't get any interest even though it was never the state's money in the first place.
HMRC's record is lamentable. But even if they were perfect, they shouldn't have such a power without some form of court scrutiny. The balance of power between the individual and the state should be in favour of the individual. The state exists to serve us and not the other way around.
So let us be clear. Do you support the principle that the state should be permitted to seize the property of a person, who is alleged to be in arrears with HMRC, without a court order?
Well, put it this way, for my entire life the state has had that power, and I've never heard anyone suggest that the power should have been taken away. I believe it's the same in most democracies. Of course, there is not the end of the matter; this is actually about whether, in a dispute, after four warnings, and in very well-defined circumstances, the alleged tax gets paid first and then paid back if the taxpayer wins in court, rather than vice versa.
If something is draconian, then should not the automatic reaction be to address things to make them less draconian across the board, not accept that draconian powers are facts of life and accept draconian measures elsewhere? By definition draconian means excessively harsh, and if things already are draconian, that does not mean increasing or even merely not reversing the excessively harsh reality should be accepted.
The question is surely whether they need draconian powers, and whether they abuse them.
In any case, everyone seems to be missing the point I've been making, which is that this is hardly some major new principle, some line which has never been crossed before. It may or may not be a good measure, but the argument that it is in principle some breach of Magna Carta, never before inflicted on free-born Englishmen, is just utter garbage.
As for Richard T's argument that government should serve the people, I rather think the people are fed up with tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance.
Well, put it this way, for my entire life the state has had that power, and I've never heard anyone suggest that the power should have been taken away. I believe it's the same in most democracies. Of course, there is not the end of the matter; this is actually about whether, in a dispute, after four warnings, and in very well-defined circumstances, the alleged tax gets paid first and then paid back if the taxpayer wins in court, rather than vice versa.
Such casuistry would give Ignatius of Loyola or Francisco Suárez a run for their money. The more ancient a custom in derogation of the liberty of the subject, the more deplorable it is.
So let us be clear. Do you support the principle that the state should be permitted to seize the property of a person, who is alleged to be in arrears with HMRC, without a court order?
Well, put it this way, for my entire life the state has had that power, and I've never heard anyone suggest that the power should have been taken away. I believe it's the same in most democracies. Of course, there is not the end of the matter; this is actually about whether, in a dispute, after four warnings, and in very well-defined circumstances, the alleged tax gets paid first and then paid back if the taxpayer wins in court, rather than vice versa.
So 'Yes' then.
I don't have particularly strong views on it, to be honest. I do have strong views on basing arguments on fact, not nonsense.
So let us be clear. Do you support the principle that the state should be permitted to seize the property of a person, who is alleged to be in arrears with HMRC, without a court order?
Well, put it this way, for my entire life the state has had that power, and I've never heard anyone suggest that the power should have been taken away. I believe it's the same in most democracies. Of course, there is not the end of the matter; this is actually about whether, in a dispute, after four warnings, and in very well-defined circumstances, the alleged tax gets paid first and then paid back if the taxpayer wins in court, rather than vice versa.
No: it's not about whether the tax gets paid first. It's about whether the taxman can seize the money without getting a court order first. A subtle but important difference.
Nor is it correct that there are 4 warnings: there have to be 4 letters saying that the money is due and must be paid. Who checks? What if the letters are addressed to the wrong address or not sent or there is no evidence of them having been received? What if the person was away or ill? Someone can say that 4 letters were sent and just do it. And the taxpayer must then prove a negative: I did not receive the letters. A logical impossibility.
I'm puzzled as to why you are so resistant to the idea that the taxman should have to be subject to some checks and balances before seizing money.
Taxmen have draconian powers. That is a fact of life. They can close down your company, bankrupt your personally, seize your car or indeed any assets they like, or freeze your bank account (which basically makes it impossible to live), at the drop of a hat. They can grab your salary before it's even paid to you.
Is this an unacceptable extension of such powers? Maybe it is, but I do object to idiotic comments like Janet Daley saying "a basic premise of democratic government cannot be overturned". It has never been a basic premise of democratic government that customs officers and tax inspectors need a court order to seize assets. Maybe it should be, but it never has been in the past - so let's be accurate, shall we? Taxmen can already seize your assets without a court order:
On the particular point, it doesn't seem as draconian as many of the existing powers. At least you get some warning and a chance to make representations.
Spot on.
If you don't like it then pay your bloody taxes.
Screeching Tea Party extremist lunatics like Daley can take a short walk off a long pier.
Ah Hugh. Another moron who has forgotten that the government is supposed to serve the people not the other way round.
The Government is serving the people extremely well if it collects more of its taxes that are due.
If you don't like it, then just pay your tax.
"The Taxman" takes money directly from me every week before it even has a chance to reach my bank account, I don't shriek like a Tea Party fruitcake about it.
If something is draconian, then should not the automatic reaction be to address things to make them less draconian across the board, not accept that draconian powers are facts of life and accept draconian measures elsewhere? By definition draconian means excessively harsh, and if things already are draconian, that does not mean increasing or even merely not reversing the excessively harsh reality should be accepted.
The question is surely whether they need draconian powers, and whether they abuse them.
In any case, everyone seems to be missing the point I've been making, which is that this is hardly some major new principle, some line which has never been crossed before. It may or may not be a good measure, but the argument that it is in principle some breach of Magna Carta, never before inflicted on free-born Englishmen, is just utter garbage.
As for Richard T's argument that government should serve the people, I rather think the people are fed up with tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance.
No, what people are apparently fed up with is the tax evasion by big multi-nationals. Of course the tax man is happy to sit down with them over a nice glass of wine and discuss a voluntary contribution whilst using draconian powers against the rest of the population who can't threaten to take their business elsewhere.
What people are really fed up with is the hypocrisy of it all. Something you are exhibiting in spades.
If something is draconian, then should not the automatic reaction be to address things to make them less draconian across the board, not accept that draconian powers are facts of life and accept draconian measures elsewhere? By definition draconian means excessively harsh, and if things already are draconian, that does not mean increasing or even merely not reversing the excessively harsh reality should be accepted.
The question is surely whether they need draconian powers, and whether they abuse them.
In any case, everyone seems to be missing the point I've been making, which is that this is hardly some major new principle, some line which has never been crossed before. It may or may not be a good measure, but the argument that it is in principle some breach of Magna Carta, never before inflicted on free-born Englishmen, is just utter garbage.
As for Richard T's argument that government should serve the people, I rather think the people are fed up with tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance.
Indeed so. One of the best ways the Government can serve the people in a time of enforced "austerity" is by collecting due taxes.
No, what people are apparently fed up with is the tax evasion by big multi-nationals. Of course the tax man is happy to sit down with them over a nice glass of wine and discuss a voluntary contribution whilst using draconian powers against the rest of the population who can't threaten to take their business elsewhere.
What people are really fed up with is the hypocrisy of it all. Something you are exhibiting in spades.
How you manage to accuse me of hypocrisy, when all that I have done is point out that, contrary to what Janet Daley and others have said, the taxman has always had powers to seize assets without a court order, is mysterious in the extreme.
If something is draconian, then should not the automatic reaction be to address things to make them less draconian across the board, not accept that draconian powers are facts of life and accept draconian measures elsewhere? By definition draconian means excessively harsh, and if things already are draconian, that does not mean increasing or even merely not reversing the excessively harsh reality should be accepted.
The question is surely whether they need draconian powers, and whether they abuse them.
In any case, everyone seems to be missing the point I've been making, which is that this is hardly some major new principle, some line which has never been crossed before. It may or may not be a good measure, but the argument that it is in principle some breach of Magna Carta, never before inflicted on free-born Englishmen, is just utter garbage.
As for Richard T's argument that government should serve the people, I rather think the people are fed up with tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance.
I'm pretty fed up with tax evasion to be honest. I'm all in favour of HMRC getting money from those who evade their taxes. I want them to do it according to the law and subject to the scrutiny of the courts not just screech "you owe us" and help themselves.
If something is draconian, then should not the automatic reaction be to address things to make them less draconian across the board, not accept that draconian powers are facts of life and accept draconian measures elsewhere? By definition draconian means excessively harsh, and if things already are draconian, that does not mean increasing or even merely not reversing the excessively harsh reality should be accepted.
The question is surely whether they need draconian powers, and whether they abuse them.
In any case, everyone seems to be missing the point I've been making, which is that this is hardly some major new principle, some line which has never been crossed before. It may or may not be a good measure, but the argument that it is in principle some breach of Magna Carta, never before inflicted on free-born Englishmen, is just utter garbage.
As for Richard T's argument that government should serve the people, I rather think the people are fed up with tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance.
I'm pretty fed up with tax evasion to be honest. I'm all in favour of HMRC getting money from those who evade their taxes. I want them to do it according to the law and subject to the scrutiny of the courts not just screech "you owe us" and help themselves.
They don't need a court order every time they take money from my wages or every time I buy a VAT rated good.
Taxmen have draconian powers. That is a fact of life. They can close down your company, bankrupt your personally, seize your car or indeed any assets they like, or freeze your bank account (which basically makes it impossible to live), at the drop of a hat. They can grab your salary before it's even paid to you.
Is this an unacceptable extension of such powers? Maybe it is, but I do object to idiotic comments like Janet Daley saying "a basic premise of democratic government cannot be overturned". It has never been a basic premise of democratic government that customs officers and tax inspectors need a court order to seize assets. Maybe it should be, but it never has been in the past - so let's be accurate, shall we? Taxmen can already seize your assets without a court order:
On the particular point, it doesn't seem as draconian as many of the existing powers. At least you get some warning and a chance to make representations.
Spot on.
If you don't like it then pay your bloody taxes.
Screeching Tea Party extremist lunatics like Daley can take a short walk off a long pier.
Ah Hugh. Another moron who has forgotten that the government is supposed to serve the people not the other way round.
The Government is serving the people extremely well if it collects more of its taxes that are due.
If you don't like it, then just pay your tax.
"The Taxman" takes money directly from me every week before it even has a chance to reach my bank account, I don't shriek like a Tea Party fruitcake about it.
The government does not go into your account to take tax. Your employer pays you the net amount. If this goes ahead, the employer could make a mistake without you realising. And some junior clerk could simply decide to take the money from your account. You say - after the event - I never received any warning letters. I'm on PAYE; what do you mean I owe tax. How? Why couldn't my tax code be adjusted etc? HMRC says: yes we wrote letters, no we don't have proof of posting or delivery and no we don't care that your employer was a numpty. We've taken it. Too bad. Oh dear: we got it wrong. You'll get your refund some time next year.
You're naive if you think this will only be used against some wicked tax evader only.
They don't need a court order every time they take money from my wages or every time I buy a VAT rated good.
If you can't see the difference between taxes collected at source, and the government seizing property or cash where it is alleged that a person is in arrears, you are either being deliberately obtuse or stupid.
Taxmen have draconian powers. That is a fact of life. They can close down your company, bankrupt your personally, seize your car or indeed any assets they like, or freeze your bank account (which basically makes it impossible to live), at the drop of a hat. They can grab your salary before it's even paid to you.
Is this an unacceptable extension of such powers? Maybe it is, but I do object to idiotic comments like Janet Daley saying "a basic premise of democratic government cannot be overturned". It has never been a basic premise of democratic government that customs officers and tax inspectors need a court order to seize assets. Maybe it should be, but it never has been in the past - so let's be accurate, shall we? Taxmen can already seize your assets without a court order:
On the particular point, it doesn't seem as draconian as many of the existing powers. At least you get some warning and a chance to make representations.
Spot on.
If you don't like it then pay your bloody taxes.
Screeching Tea Party extremist lunatics like Daley can take a short walk off a long pier.
Ah Hugh. Another moron who has forgotten that the government is supposed to serve the people not the other way round.
The Government is serving the people extremely well if it collects more of its taxes that are due.
If you don't like it, then just pay your tax.
"The Taxman" takes money directly from me every week before it even has a chance to reach my bank account, I don't shriek like a Tea Party fruitcake about it.
The government does not go into your account to take tax. Your employer pays you the net amount. If this goes ahead, the employer could make a mistake without you realising. And some junior clerk could simply decide to take the money from your account. You say - after the event - I never received any warning letters. I'm on PAYE; what do you mean I owe tax. How? Why couldn't my tax code be adjusted etc? HMRC says: yes we wrote letters, no we don't have proof of posting or delivery and no we don't care that your employer was a numpty. We've taken it. Too bad. Oh dear: we got it wrong. You'll get your refund some time next year.
You're naive if you think this will only be used against some wicked tax evader only.
Comments
Con: -
Lab: -5
LibD: -3
UKIP: +5
But "UKIP only hurts the Tories" (yes, I know it's more complicated than that......)
Cons: we were in a hole, Cons got us out of it and we are growing. Lab will c*ck it up again
touch and go, I agree.
‘te’ - Is this some odd phraseology picked up in your short trip to Ilkley?
European Space Agency launches to take supplies to ISS.
When I read it my subconscious added another "I" which made it a bizarre thing for the ESA to have done.
LAB 37
LIB DEM 8
Will be the figures for July
Lead will be 3.5
ISIS Equity Partners
http://www.isisep.com/
33 38 8 -5
35 36 8 -1
35 39 8 -4
34 35 8 -1
YouGov/Sun 23/07/2014 34 38 8 -4
YouGov/Sun 22/07/2014 34 37 7 -3
YouGov/Sun 21/07/2014 34 38 9 -4
YouGov/Sunday Times 18/07/2014 32 37 9 -5
YouGov/Sun 17/07/2014 32 39 8 -7
YouGov/Sun 16/07/2014 33 36 9 -3
YouGov/Sun 15/07/2014 34 38 6 -4
YouGov/Sun 14/07/2014 35 38 8 -3
YouGov/Sunday Times 11/07/2014 33 38 9 -5
YouGov/Sun 10/07/2014 34 37 8 -3
YouGov/Sun 09/07/2014 32 36 10 -4
YouGov/Sun 08/07/2014 31 38 8 -7
YouGov/Sun 07/07/2014 34 37 9 -3
YouGov/Sun on Sunday 04/07/2014 35 37 8 -2
YouGov/Sunday Times 04/07/2014 34 36 8 -2
YouGov/Sun 03/07/2014 35 36 8 -1
YouGov/Sun 02/07/2014 35 37 8 -2
YouGov/Sun 01/07/2014 33 38 8 -5
33.69565217 37.26086957 8.173913043 -3.565217391
33.5 37.26086957 8.173913043 -3.5
34 37 8
Isis oh Isis you are a terrible child,
What's driving me to you is driving me insane.
Still do really.
It's mystical child not terrible child.
Con +1
Lab =
Kipper -2
LD =
The Lab 39, Con 33 poll had more Conservative respondents than Labour.
TSE : "When a hard working and diligent candidate like Marcus Wood can't win Torbay you know Sanders and the Lib Dems are strong in that part of the world. "
Ah, but the LibDems' share of the vote nationally has fallen by more than half since the last GE.
If the Tories can't capture Torbay then the LibDems should be backed to win >40 seats.
Personally I don't see it.
Paddy is 8-5 on him if you want it !
He already got endorsements from Tessa Jowell, Helena Kennedy, Trevor Phillips, Mary Honeyball MEP, Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead & Kilburn PPC, defeated by 2 votes in 2012 Camden leadership election by Sarah Hayward who will probably be Starmer's main opponent in the selection), the Chair of Kings Cross Mosque, Fiona Millar and a couple of Cllrs.
ASLEF also declared their backing for him.
Here are the seats I reckon they can lose whilst still holding on in the bay:
1. Solihull Majority 175 (0.3%)
2. Mid Dorset and North Poole Majority 269 (0.6%)
3. Norwich South Majority 310 (0.7%)
4. Bradford East Majority 365 (0.9%)
5. Wells Majority 800 (1.4%)
6. St Austell & Newquay Majority 1312 (2.8%)
7. Brent Central Majority 1345 (3%)
10. St Ives Majority 1719 (3.7%)
11. Manchester, Withington Majority 1894 (4.2%)
12. Burnley Majority 1818 (4.3%)
13. East Dunbartonshire Majority 2184 (4.6%)
14. Chippenham Majority 2470 (4.7%)
15. Cheadle Majority 3272 (6.2%)
16. North Cornwall Majority 2981 (6.4%)
17. Eastbourne Majority 3435 (6.6%)
18. Taunton Deane Majority 3993 (6.9%)
19. Berwick-upon-Tweed Majority 2690 (7%)
21. Birmingham, Yardley Majority 3002 (7.3%)
22. Argyll & Bute Majority 3431 (7.6%)
23. Aberdeenshire West & Kincardine Majority 3684 (8.2%)
24. Edinburgh West Majority 3803 (8.2%)
31. Redcar Majority 5214 (12.4%)
38. Gordon Majority 6748 (13.8%)
44. Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch & Strathspey Majority 8765 (18.6%)
POSSIBLY:
36. Cambridge Majority 6792 (13.5%)
43. Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross Majority 4826 (16.8%)
Bermondsey
45. Bermondsey & Old Southwark Majority 8530 (19.1%)
"It would be an honour for anyone to succeed Frank Dobson. It will now be for the party to agree the process and timetable but if it is an open shortlist I intend to seek selection from members of Holborn and St Pancras, my home for over 15 years."
"Our constituency needs an MP who will continue Frank’s principled campaigning, fight to get the Tories out of power and be able to influence a future Labour government. I believe I can bring my experience as a human rights lawyer, DPP and campaigner to do that. I am only too aware of the impact that politics has on the daily lives of all of us."
Silly tories, playing with fire....
The media seem to have gone very quiet on the topic of Iraq.
I think it inappropriate to post a direct link to that video.
OGH has asked us to exercise discretion on these matters and PB also gets a fair amount of traffic from younger folk.
Perhaps on reflection you might ask to have the post deleted.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/3599423.stm
800,000 people slaughtered and I barely remember a peep in the UK media.
Hopefully some good TV coverage to catch up on this evening.
Edited extra bit: India's got more people than England and Australia combined, and had home advantage. It should be dominating the Commonwealth in sporting terms.
Average lead 3.5%
If we're discussing the Commonwealth Games Medal Table, how about a kind word for New Zealand (Mrs Stodge would approve) sitting in fifth place. Population the size of Wales but not far behind Canada and Scotland in terms of medals.
This is the key point. Any civil servant who would have even dared propose this to Mrs T. would have been seen swinging by a rope from Westminster Lamp post that night.
The very fact that Osborne and Cameron allowed this to even be mooted shows they cannot be conservatives. They are just big government corporatists with better PR than labour.
Is this an unacceptable extension of such powers? Maybe it is, but I do object to idiotic comments like Janet Daley saying "a basic premise of democratic government cannot be overturned". It has never been a basic premise of democratic government that customs officers and tax inspectors need a court order to seize assets. Maybe it should be, but it never has been in the past - so let's be accurate, shall we? Taxmen can already seize your assets without a court order:
http://www.harringtonbrooks.co.uk/advice-centre/legal-action/distraint
On the particular point, it doesn't seem as draconian as many of the existing powers. At least you get some warning and a chance to make representations.
@PickardJE: Labour's annual surplus: £5.5m. Labour's annual (opposition party) state subsidy: £7m @GreenJimll @toryradio
If that's true then why don;t they use the powers they already have? why do they need more powers?
That link you post refers to GOODS. it does not refer to bank accounts, as I suspect you well know.
Maybe, but it also contradicts your assertion that taxmen have draconian powers. They clearly don't.
Dave to core tory vote: Get stuffed
If she had written 'HMRC already have powers to seize assets without a court order, why do they need any more powers?', that would have been a fair point, which one could assess on its merits.
It really does not take much effort to go to court to say this person owes this much money - and this is how it has been worked out - and has been asked to pay on these number of occasions and here is the proof and here is an affidavit to say that no reply has been received and here is this person's account and we are only taking what we are legally due and if we get it wrong you the court can reverse this and order us to pay penalties. Any competent legal department can sort this out pdq and it provides some check and balance as does the court scrutiny.
And, yet, HMRC want to avoid all that, for no good reason that they have articulated and every responsible organisation which has commented has said what a terrible idea it is but it's all right, you say, because some other part of the agency can also exercise powers and do terrible things to you so why not this as well.
Jesus wept!
Can anyone explain to me how our politicians are prepared to sacrifice the all too fragile recovery of our own economy on the basis of zero evidence, before the reporting of any enquiry into MH-17? Who are prepared to take us to the brink of conflict with the world's 2nd biggest nuclear power? It's like some insane parallel universe. And it's these same student politician amateur adventurers having their infantile 'COBRA' meetings who warn of the 'dangers' of a party like UKIP coming to power.
Everybody gets a chance to strike a manly jaw jutting pose for the cameras, the risk of nuclear annihilation is a mere afterthought to a good media opportunity. ;-)
If you don't like it then pay your bloody taxes.
Screeching Tea Party extremist lunatics like Daley can take a short walk off a long pier.
I do pay my taxes. I have been overtaxed and HMRC have owed me money. I can't dip into their account to get MY money back. I have to wait months and months and I don't get any interest even though it was never the state's money in the first place.
HMRC's record is lamentable. But even if they were perfect, they shouldn't have such a power without some form of court scrutiny. The balance of power between the individual and the state should be in favour of the individual. The state exists to serve us and not the other way around.
In any case, everyone seems to be missing the point I've been making, which is that this is hardly some major new principle, some line which has never been crossed before. It may or may not be a good measure, but the argument that it is in principle some breach of Magna Carta, never before inflicted on free-born Englishmen, is just utter garbage.
As for Richard T's argument that government should serve the people, I rather think the people are fed up with tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance.
Nor is it correct that there are 4 warnings: there have to be 4 letters saying that the money is due and must be paid. Who checks? What if the letters are addressed to the wrong address or not sent or there is no evidence of them having been received? What if the person was away or ill? Someone can say that 4 letters were sent and just do it. And the taxpayer must then prove a negative: I did not receive the letters. A logical impossibility.
I'm puzzled as to why you are so resistant to the idea that the taxman should have to be subject to some checks and balances before seizing money.
If you don't like it, then just pay your tax.
"The Taxman" takes money directly from me every week before it even has a chance to reach my bank account, I don't shriek like a Tea Party fruitcake about it.
What people are really fed up with is the hypocrisy of it all. Something you are exhibiting in spades.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-28571431
Go Coalition!
You're naive if you think this will only be used against some wicked tax evader only.
Gonna look into this a bit more actually...