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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New TNS-BMRB IndyRef poll finds big fall in don’t knows but

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited July 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New TNS-BMRB IndyRef poll finds big fall in don’t knows but the overall picture remains

The pollster, like YouGov, has tended to show YES in a poorer position than some of the other firms and asks a slightly different voting intention question. Rather than the conventional “how would you vote tomorrow” TNS asks what people are planning to do on September 18th.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030
    First (sorry Peter!)

    Good news for the unionists (although some would suggest that was complacency)
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Gadfly said:
    That's kinda interesting. It would be nice to see how its trends compare with the final result.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    We seem to remain in the broad range of 60/40 win for NO.

    Tick tock .....
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    YouGov

    On UK Economy (Good/Bad) improves by +6

    Household economy over next 12 months (better/worse) - improves by +5

    Last year 65% went on a family holiday (42 overseas/23 in UK)
    Expectations this year are 62 (38/24)
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    Toms said:

    Gadfly said:
    That's kinda interesting. It would be nice to see how its trends compare with the final result.
    I do like the way that moving averages smooth out the noise and better identify trends. I did something similar during the couple of months leading up to the 2010 general election, and posted daily updates on here. Things were rather different then, but looking back at the final chart it appears that the televised election debates had a bigger impact than I recall...

    http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae304/Gadfly_bucket/5-pollat2010generalelection.jpg
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    YouGov

    Looking a bit more at the party leader's well/badly in normally strong Labour areas:

    18-24s: DC is -6; EdM is -24

    London: DC is -11, EdM is - 46

    North: DC is -18; EdM is -38

    Scotland: DC is -33, EdM is -28
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    Financier [7.50] It would be interesting to compare with Brown's at the same stage in the last Parliament. And of course we don't know how the leaders will perform in the TV debates (if we have them). Nevertheless I agree with your implication that a Tory majority is the most likely outcome.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Gadfly said:
    Thanks - interesting.

    Can I suggest you start the vertical axis at 20 or 25? Would make it easier to read for people (like me) with dodgy eyes
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Sleazy broken Don't knows on the slide.
  • Charles said:

    Gadfly said:
    Thanks - interesting.

    Can I suggest you start the vertical axis at 20 or 25? Would make it easier to read for people (like me) with dodgy eyes
    A good idea - especially as crossover approaches/takes place.

  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    Financier [7.50] It would be interesting to compare with Brown's at the same stage in the last Parliament. And of course we don't know how the leaders will perform in the TV debates (if we have them). Nevertheless I agree with your implication that a Tory majority is the most likely outcome.

    Also worth noting is today's 2010 LD split which is a fair reflection of the trends in the last two weeks of YouGov.

    2010 LD split is Cons:16; LAB: 31; LD:27; UKIP: 13; Green 11

    So LD is retaining about 25-32% of its 2010 vote and is the main source for the Green VI.
    Over the last two weeks the LD to Con has increased by about 50%.

  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    Charles said:

    Gadfly said:
    Thanks - interesting.

    Can I suggest you start the vertical axis at 20 or 25? Would make it easier to read for people (like me) with dodgy eyes
    I would be delighted to, but I am currently inputting the LibDem and UKIP numbers, to see how they look by comparison. Unfortunately, this will entail accommodating the current LibDem moving average of 8.

  • Financier [7.50] It would be interesting to compare with Brown's at the same stage in the last Parliament. And of course we don't know how the leaders will perform in the TV debates (if we have them). Nevertheless I agree with your implication that a Tory majority is the most likely outcome.

    I agree - such a comparison would be very informative, especially if the clever Gadfly (he says crawling) could present this on the basis of a 5 day/10 day moving average chart as he is currently doing in this thread for Lab vs Con shares of the vote. Hopefully Mike would be able to provide the raw data should this not be readily accessible via the internet.

  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    Test
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    I've just read the Leon Brittan story in the Mail.

    I've got to say that I feel very sorry for him. According to the newspaper, the story is that he went on a blind date, they went back to his flat together, and when they were at his flat he raped her.

    I don't see that there is anyway that this could possibly be proved assuming she has kept no evidence from the time? It's just word against word. But his reputation gets absolutely trashed in the process.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681909/Leon-Brittan-quizzed-teen-rape-claim-Ex-Home-Secretary-accused-attacking-student-flat.html
  • Financier said:

    Financier [7.50] It would be interesting to compare with Brown's at the same stage in the last Parliament. And of course we don't know how the leaders will perform in the TV debates (if we have them). Nevertheless I agree with your implication that a Tory majority is the most likely outcome.

    Also worth noting is today's 2010 LD split which is a fair reflection of the trends in the last two weeks of YouGov.

    2010 LD split is Cons:16; LAB: 31; LD:27; UKIP: 13; Green 11

    So LD is retaining about 25-32% of its 2010 vote and is the main source for the Green VI.
    Over the last two weeks the LD to Con has increased by about 50%.

    Any continuing VI switch from the LibDems to the Greens has to be good news for the Tories, not only in terms of assisting them in taking seats from the yellows but also in preventing such lost votes from going to Labour, surely their only realistic alternative destination.

  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Financier said:

    YouGov

    Looking a bit more at the party leader's well/badly in normally strong Labour areas:

    18-24s: DC is -6; EdM is -24

    London: DC is -11, EdM is - 46

    North: DC is -18; EdM is -38

    Scotland: DC is -33, EdM is -28

    Scotland is so out of line it's as if they are a foreign a country.
  • FalseFlag said:

    Financier said:

    YouGov

    Looking a bit more at the party leader's well/badly in normally strong Labour areas:

    18-24s: DC is -6; EdM is -24

    London: DC is -11, EdM is - 46

    North: DC is -18; EdM is -38

    Scotland: DC is -33, EdM is -28

    Scotland is so out of line it's as if they are a foreign a country.
    Well ..... since you mention it .....
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Gadfly said:

    this will entail accommodating the current LibDem moving average of 8.

    Remind me who they are again?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited July 2014
    to my mind its looking bad for ED. , core vote strategy, might prevent a majority but unlikely to get him into No 10. Meanwhile the economy continues to improve day by day.
    Its rather reassuring that Labour's strategy is so poor as are their spinners.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/07/baldwins-blunder/
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    .. and here's a "short" interview with Bercow.. He really ought to stay out of the news, but he just cant help seeking the limelight. His only salvation is that his wife is even worse than he is.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10948384/Criticising-someones-height-should-be-socially-unacceptable-says-John-Bercow.html
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Charles said:

    Gadfly said:

    this will entail accommodating the current LibDem moving average of 8.

    Remind me who they are again?
    I'll repeat what someone wrote on here yesterday in that it doesn't matter what the national % is for the LDs they will win a minimum of 30 seats even on a 5% Nat total. This is because they are so entrenched on their strongholds and that won't change...
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    The other thing that would interest me is a breakdown of voting intention by years of education. Education for all has been a key plank of the left platform since before votes for women was. Have we finally reached the stage where all that's left of the uneducated is a right-leaning underclass? (After all, that's one intended outcome of the left's education policy...)
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited July 2014
    timmo said:

    Charles said:

    Gadfly said:

    this will entail accommodating the current LibDem moving average of 8.

    Remind me who they are again?
    I'll repeat what someone wrote on here yesterday in that it doesn't matter what the national % is for the LDs they will win a minimum of 30 seats even on a 5% Nat total. This is because they are so entrenched on their strongholds and that won't change...
    They don't have 30 strongholds.
    They have maybe 15-20 certain strongholds
    Another 15-20 where their strength is predicated on tactical voting which implodes at a low national %
    The rest are just gains made due to high national % (relatively)
    20 is probably the number for their 'gimmes' - anything under 9% and I can't see them much above 25 seats
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    .. and here's a "short" interview with Bercow.. He really ought to stay out of the news, but he just cant help seeking the limelight. His only salvation is that his wife is even worse than he is.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10948384/Criticising-someones-height-should-be-socially-unacceptable-says-John-Bercow.html

    It is the logical outcome of political correctness. The other option is to reintroduce free speech.
  • timmo said:

    Charles said:

    Gadfly said:

    this will entail accommodating the current LibDem moving average of 8.

    Remind me who they are again?
    I'll repeat what someone wrote on here yesterday in that it doesn't matter what the national % is for the LDs they will win a minimum of 30 seats even on a 5% Nat total. This is because they are so entrenched on their strongholds and that won't change...
    On this basis the LibDems would win 4.6% of the seats by securing 5% of the vote. Proportional representation at work pretty much then!
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    FalseFlag said:

    .. and here's a "short" interview with Bercow.. He really ought to stay out of the news, but he just cant help seeking the limelight. His only salvation is that his wife is even worse than he is.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10948384/Criticising-someones-height-should-be-socially-unacceptable-says-John-Bercow.html

    It is the logical outcome of political correctness. The other option is to reintroduce free speech.
    We'll see if the re-introduction of "free speech" is in the next Tory manifesto. Not whilst Cammo is leading the Party, methinks.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Good morning, everyone.

    Ah, Bercow. The noisiest midget in all the land.

    I wonder if this would affect a chapter in my WIP. The protagonist, Sir Edric, has an equal opportunities approach to contempt (he has it for pretty much everyone who isn't him), including taking the piss out of someone for being shorter than him. Under the politically correct bullshit Bercow espouses, would this be permitted?

    Ought I to be hauled before the oompa-loompa kangaroo court?
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294

    Good morning, everyone.

    Ah, Bercow. The noisiest midget in all the land.

    I wonder if this would affect a chapter in my WIP. The protagonist, Sir Edric, has an equal opportunities approach to contempt (he has it for pretty much everyone who isn't him), including taking the piss out of someone for being shorter than him. Under the politically correct bullshit Bercow espouses, would this be permitted?

    Ought I to be hauled before the oompa-loompa kangaroo court?

    Sir Edric would like it on here. He appears to be the role model for not a few Peebies...

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    edited July 2014
    In a few years time, historians will be saying Napoleon had a Bercow complex.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Good morning, everyone.

    Ah, Bercow. The noisiest midget in all the land.

    I wonder if this would affect a chapter in my WIP. The protagonist, Sir Edric, has an equal opportunities approach to contempt (he has it for pretty much everyone who isn't him), including taking the piss out of someone for being shorter than him. Under the politically correct bullshit Bercow espouses, would this be permitted?

    Ought I to be hauled before the oompa-loompa kangaroo court?


    From what I understand, Bercow is not popular in Westminster as he is seen to be partisan, that's why he is given short shrift by so many in the HOC..and why some others belittle him.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    .. and here's a "short" interview with Bercow.. He really ought to stay out of the news, but he just cant help seeking the limelight. His only salvation is that his wife is even worse than he is.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10948384/Criticising-someones-height-should-be-socially-unacceptable-says-John-Bercow.html

    It's amusing that he says it doesn't bother him in precisely the way that proves it does.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    ToryJim said:

    .. and here's a "short" interview with Bercow.. He really ought to stay out of the news, but he just cant help seeking the limelight. His only salvation is that his wife is even worse than he is.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10948384/Criticising-someones-height-should-be-socially-unacceptable-says-John-Bercow.html

    It's amusing that he says it doesn't bother him in precisely the way that proves it does.
    We should all stop looking down on John Bercow

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    We can all look forward to Little Johns retirement from politics and his subsequent triumphant debut in the NBA.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Abroad, you can always buy his first adventure, Sir Edric's Temple, available from all good retailers ;)

    It is a serious point, though. We've got to be allowed to take the piss. There is nothing more British than that, except perhaps royalty, drunkenness and mockery of the French (although I'd put the latter under the wider umbrella of piss-taking). Whether it's balding, shortness, skinniness [and those are just the ones that apply to me, to a greater or lesser extent] or something else, the sentence 'I am offended' does not constitute a valid argument against a joke.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    ToryJim said:

    .. and here's a "short" interview with Bercow.. He really ought to stay out of the news, but he just cant help seeking the limelight. His only salvation is that his wife is even worse than he is.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10948384/Criticising-someones-height-should-be-socially-unacceptable-says-John-Bercow.html

    It's amusing that he says it doesn't bother him in precisely the way that proves it does.
    We should all stop looking down on John Bercow

    And pay due adulation to his wife who lives the feminist dream of getting publicity by being married to someone who has achieved something. You go, girl!
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    The other thing that would interest me is a breakdown of voting intention by years of education. Education for all has been a key plank of the left platform since before votes for women was. Have we finally reached the stage where all that's left of the uneducated is a right-leaning underclass? (After all, that's one intended outcome of the left's education policy...)

    In several of Ashcroft's larger polls he does just that giving you splits based on how long you remained in full-time education.

    As I recall UKIP voters left earliest & LDs the latest.

  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    ToryJim said:

    .. and here's a "short" interview with Bercow.. He really ought to stay out of the news, but he just cant help seeking the limelight. His only salvation is that his wife is even worse than he is.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10948384/Criticising-someones-height-should-be-socially-unacceptable-says-John-Bercow.html

    It's amusing that he says it doesn't bother him in precisely the way that proves it does.
    We should all stop looking down on John Bercow

    Mr Eagles I think Bercows problem isn't his lack of height but his arrogance that only he is fit for this world. It's as though there wasn't a decent Speaker until he came along to show the lesser people how it's done. Awful awful man.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Mr. Abroad, you can always buy his first adventure, Sir Edric's Temple, available from all good retailers ;)

    It is a serious point, though. We've got to be allowed to take the piss. There is nothing more British than that, except perhaps royalty, drunkenness and mockery of the French (although I'd put the latter under the wider umbrella of piss-taking). Whether it's balding, shortness, skinniness [and those are just the ones that apply to me, to a greater or lesser extent] or something else, the sentence 'I am offended' does not constitute a valid argument against a joke.

    Quite so. Parliament would be quite dull if nobody were allowed to criticise another on the basis of their political beliefs for fear of offence.
    As for comedy.....
    A person, a person and a person walked, wheeled and hopped into a generic establishment offering a full range of legal beverages to suit all tastes.
    'Wheres the soap?'
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Good morning, everyone.

    Ah, Bercow. The noisiest midget in all the land.

    I wonder if this would affect a chapter in my WIP. The protagonist, Sir Edric, has an equal opportunities approach to contempt (he has it for pretty much everyone who isn't him), including taking the piss out of someone for being shorter than him. Under the politically correct bullshit Bercow espouses, would this be permitted?

    Ought I to be hauled before the oompa-loompa kangaroo court?


    From what I understand, Bercow is not popular in Westminster as he is seen to be partisan, that's why he is given short shrift by so many in the HOC..and why some others belittle him.
    Or is it that Bercow is seen to be not partisan enough towards his own party?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Good morning, everyone.

    Ah, Bercow. The noisiest midget in all the land.

    I wonder if this would affect a chapter in my WIP. The protagonist, Sir Edric, has an equal opportunities approach to contempt (he has it for pretty much everyone who isn't him), including taking the piss out of someone for being shorter than him. Under the politically correct bullshit Bercow espouses, would this be permitted?

    Ought I to be hauled before the oompa-loompa kangaroo court?


    From what I understand, Bercow is not popular in Westminster as he is seen to be partisan, that's why he is given short shrift by so many in the HOC..and why some others belittle him.
    Or is it that Bercow is seen to be not partisan enough towards his own party?
    Or is he just a git?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Mr Dancer, Stephen Fry has a perfect quote on being offended. I'd post it but the language is a bit ripe.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited July 2014
    O/T

    Oddschecker this morning shows Argentina, Germany and Brazil as three-way joint favourites, best-priced at 11/4 to win the World Cup, with the Netherlands the "outsider" at 4/1.

    After a month of competition it would appear, predictably some would say, that the two best European sides along with the two best South American sides remain in the competition.

    For those who believe that Americans understand such matters (stop laughing at the back), Nat Silver's 538.com calculates that Brazil has a 54% chance of winning, way ahead of Argentina on 19%, followed by The Netherlands on 14%, with Germany bringing up the rear on 13%.

    In terms of betting on the winning continent, Ladbrokes offers the best price at 4/5 on a South American win, while sportingbet offers 11/10 against one or other of the European sides lifting the trophy.

    You pays your money .....
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294

    The other thing that would interest me is a breakdown of voting intention by years of education. Education for all has been a key plank of the left platform since before votes for women was. Have we finally reached the stage where all that's left of the uneducated is a right-leaning underclass? (After all, that's one intended outcome of the left's education policy...)

    In several of Ashcroft's larger polls he does just that giving you splits based on how long you remained in full-time education.

    As I recall UKIP voters left earliest & LDs the latest.

    That's pretty much what I would have predicted. Why aren't election results that easy?

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Norman. Tebbit on Marr practically admitting there was a big padeophile ring in Westminster in the 80s and it was ignored to protect the establishment.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Good morning, everyone.

    Ah, Bercow. The noisiest midget in all the land.

    I wonder if this would affect a chapter in my WIP. The protagonist, Sir Edric, has an equal opportunities approach to contempt (he has it for pretty much everyone who isn't him), including taking the piss out of someone for being shorter than him. Under the politically correct bullshit Bercow espouses, would this be permitted?

    Ought I to be hauled before the oompa-loompa kangaroo court?


    From what I understand, Bercow is not popular in Westminster as he is seen to be partisan, that's why he is given short shrift by so many in the HOC..and why some others belittle him.
    Or is it that Bercow is seen to be not partisan enough towards his own party?
    Quite the opposite. I would have thought it was because he was deliberately anti his own party and fawning to the opposition. He is meant to be impartial..

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    isam said:

    Norman. Tebbit on Marr practically admitting there was a big padeophile ring in Westminster in the 80s and it was ignored to protect the establishment.

    All came out in Belgium a few years ago, looks like UK follows suit.
    What to do about it? What to do about it that maintains public trust? What to do about it that does not prejudice prosecution?
    Deft footwork ahead.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    O/T

    Oddschecker this morning shows Argentina, Germany and Brazil as three-way joint favourites, best-priced at 11/4 to win the World Cup, with the Netherlands the "outsider" at 4/1.

    After a month of competition it would appear, predictably some would say, that the two best European sides along with the two best South American sides remain in the competition.

    For those who believe that Americans understand such matters (stop laughing at the back), Nat Silver's 538.com calculates that Brazil has a 54% chance of winning, way ahead of Argentina on 19%, followed by The Netherlands on 14%, with Germany bringing up the rear on 13%.

    In terms of betting on the winning continent, Ladbrokes offers the best price at 4/5 on a South American win, while sportingbet offers 11/10 against one or other of the European sides lifting the trophy.

    You pays your money .....

    The 538 ratings seem to place an awful lot of store on Brazil not having lost a competitive game at home since 1975. Quite how relevant this is to 2014's team -- none of whom were born in 1975 -- is not immediately clear.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Jim, Fry's quite right.

    People have every right to be offended. And other people have every right not to give a damn.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191

    Financier [7.50] It would be interesting to compare with Brown's at the same stage in the last Parliament. And of course we don't know how the leaders will perform in the TV debates (if we have them). Nevertheless I agree with your implication that a Tory majority is the most likely outcome.

    I agree - such a comparison would be very informative, especially if the clever Gadfly (he says crawling) could present this on the basis of a 5 day/10 day moving average chart as he is currently doing in this thread for Lab vs Con shares of the vote. Hopefully Mike would be able to provide the raw data should this not be readily accessible via the internet.

    I am not precisely sure what you want, but I am always up for a challenge. Ultimately, I suspect everything dials back into party share, and I am still rather taken about the impact of the TV debates when looking back at 2010's chart below.

    I have now incorporated the LibDem and UKIP numbers into my charts, and have played with the formatting, which will hopefully make them more readable.

    http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae304/Gadfly_bucket/5-poll-4party-060714.jpg

    http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae304/Gadfly_bucket/10-poll-4party-060714.jpg
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Mark Cavendish ruled out of the TDF.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Good morning, everyone.

    Ah, Bercow. The noisiest midget in all the land.

    I wonder if this would affect a chapter in my WIP. The protagonist, Sir Edric, has an equal opportunities approach to contempt (he has it for pretty much everyone who isn't him), including taking the piss out of someone for being shorter than him. Under the politically correct bullshit Bercow espouses, would this be permitted?

    Ought I to be hauled before the oompa-loompa kangaroo court?


    From what I understand, Bercow is not popular in Westminster as he is seen to be partisan, that's why he is given short shrift by so many in the HOC..and why some others belittle him.
    Or is it that Bercow is seen to be not partisan enough towards his own party?
    Quite the opposite. I would have thought it was because he was deliberately anti his own party and fawning to the opposition. He is meant to be impartial..

    That is certainly the perception of Conservative partisans, but that is my point. Does their take on neutral really mean biased towards them? Bear in mind for instance that both Labour and Conservatives see the Civil Service as biased to the other side, and likewise the BBC.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    This is holiday time in Scotland. Our schools come off early and lots of people go away before the English follow suit and drive up the prices.

    But even allowing for that my own purely subjective assessment is that, if anything, there is something of a lull in campaigning in the referendum. Things seem much quieter than they were in the Spring and you just have to wonder if people are either bored or think the result is looking inevitable. I suppose it is also possible that spending limits coming into effect has had some effect.

    Is this really it? I would be relieved but I don't believe that there are not going to be several more twists in the road before September.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Todays You Gov LAB 334 CON 273 LD 17 Other 26 (ukpr)

    Ed is crap is PM 10 Months 1 day to go
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    isam said:

    Norman. Tebbit on Marr practically admitting there was a big padeophile ring in Westminster in the 80s and it was ignored to protect the establishment.

    All came out in Belgium a few years ago, looks like UK follows suit.
    What to do about it? What to do about it that maintains public trust? What to do about it that does not prejudice prosecution?
    Deft footwork ahead.
    Perhaps they can find another look squirrel target from showbiz to distract the press. After all, even the dead top civil servant and government aide were hardly household names even in their own households.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Beginning to think we may be stuck with the Scot's after-all...
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    @DecrepitJohnL‌
    I think Bercow's problem isn't bias per se it's that he tries so desperately to appear authoritative which means he often injects himself unnecessarily or more often counter productively. Being authoritative is something you shouldn't need to work at, if you have to try you've already failed.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,529
    ToryJim said:

    ToryJim said:

    .. and here's a "short" interview with Bercow.. He really ought to stay out of the news, but he just cant help seeking the limelight. His only salvation is that his wife is even worse than he is.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10948384/Criticising-someones-height-should-be-socially-unacceptable-says-John-Bercow.html

    It's amusing that he says it doesn't bother him in precisely the way that proves it does.
    We should all stop looking down on John Bercow

    Mr Eagles I think Bercows problem isn't his lack of height but his arrogance that only he is fit for this world. It's as though there wasn't a decent Speaker until he came along to show the lesser people how it's done. Awful awful man.
    He is the Gollum of British politics. Small, gnome-like, and misshapen, yet possessing a demonic inner drive. He is despised by all, because he has betrayed all.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Good morning, everyone.

    Ah, Bercow. The noisiest midget in all the land.

    I wonder if this would affect a chapter in my WIP. The protagonist, Sir Edric, has an equal opportunities approach to contempt (he has it for pretty much everyone who isn't him), including taking the piss out of someone for being shorter than him. Under the politically correct bullshit Bercow espouses, would this be permitted?

    Ought I to be hauled before the oompa-loompa kangaroo court?


    From what I understand, Bercow is not popular in Westminster as he is seen to be partisan, that's why he is given short shrift by so many in the HOC..and why some others belittle him.
    Or is it that Bercow is seen to be not partisan enough towards his own party?
    Quite the opposite. I would have thought it was because he was deliberately anti his own party and fawning to the opposition. He is meant to be impartial..

    That is certainly the perception of Conservative partisans, but that is my point. Does their take on neutral really mean biased towards them? Bear in mind for instance that both Labour and Conservatives see the Civil Service as biased to the other side, and likewise the BBC.

    Not sure who is/was worse. Bercow or Martin. Its a close call. Think of the other Speakers. Lord Tonypandy, Betty Boothroyd Bernard Wetherill. All were respected by all sides.
    #
    Bercow isn't. That's down to him.. He shouts because he is politically impotent and has failed to gain the respect that others did
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited July 2014
    ''Perhaps they can find another look squirrel target from showbiz to distract the press.''

    If this explodes in the next few months, It can't be bad for UKIP. They were not there at the time.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Good morning, everyone.

    Ah, Bercow. The noisiest midget in all the land.

    I wonder if this would affect a chapter in my WIP. The protagonist, Sir Edric, has an equal opportunities approach to contempt (he has it for pretty much everyone who isn't him), including taking the piss out of someone for being shorter than him. Under the politically correct bullshit Bercow espouses, would this be permitted?

    Ought I to be hauled before the oompa-loompa kangaroo court?


    From what I understand, Bercow is not popular in Westminster as he is seen to be partisan, that's why he is given short shrift by so many in the HOC..and why some others belittle him.
    Or is it that Bercow is seen to be not partisan enough towards his own party?
    Quite the opposite. I would have thought it was because he was deliberately anti his own party and fawning to the opposition. He is meant to be impartial..

    That is certainly the perception of Conservative partisans, but that is my point. Does their take on neutral really mean biased towards them? Bear in mind for instance that both Labour and Conservatives see the Civil Service as biased to the other side, and likewise the BBC.

    Not sure who is/was worse. Bercow or Martin. Its a close call. Think of the other Speakers. Lord Tonypandy, Betty Boothroyd Bernard Wetherill. All were respected by all sides.
    #
    Bercow isn't. That's down to him.. He shouts because he is politically impotent and has failed to gain the respect that others did
    Not wearing the proper clobber could be a factor. Pitching up in his lounge suit might mean Bercow sacrifices some of the ex officio authority of the Speaker.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Of course Douglas Carswell thinks Bercow is quite wonderful. This to me is instructive as to me both should have life membership of the Society of Egregious Twats.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Todays You Gov LAB 334 CON 273 LD 17 Other 26 (ukpr)

    Ed is crap is PM 10 Months 1 day to go

    With every You Gov published ed looks more like the real tenant of no 10 Downing Street.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,698
    ToryJim said:

    @DecrepitJohnL‌
    I think Bercow's problem isn't bias per se it's that he tries so desperately to appear authoritative which means he often injects himself unnecessarily or more often counter productively. Being authoritative is something you shouldn't need to work at, if you have to try you've already failed.

    I’m 5ft 6ins. Some years ago I had to do a job in Newmarket and it was quite refreshing to go somewhere where there were a significant number of men shorter than myself.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    John Bercow is a terrible Speaker but the Office is diminished if the holder is repeatedly hounded out of it.

    Martin was exceptional as he was plainly never up to the job being stupid as well as partisan and he treated members of the House with no respect. I think Cameron has decided Bercow is something that he just needs to put up with and he is probably right. Hopefully Bercow can be eased out in the next Parliament with no permanent damage done to the Office which is far more important than he will ever be.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Seeing as there seems to be a media blackout on the ongoing humanitarian disaster in the Donbass region, an update by the former chief of the CIA’s Soviet Foreign Policy Branch.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-risk-of-a-ukraine-bloodbath/

    Presumably our government isn't just blindly going a long with US foreign policy no matter how politically and morally wrong it is.
  • Gadfly said:

    Financier [7.50] It would be interesting to compare with Brown's at the same stage in the last Parliament. And of course we don't know how the leaders will perform in the TV debates (if we have them). Nevertheless I agree with your implication that a Tory majority is the most likely outcome.

    I agree - such a comparison would be very informative, especially if the clever Gadfly (he says crawling) could present this on the basis of a 5 day/10 day moving average chart as he is currently doing in this thread for Lab vs Con shares of the vote. Hopefully Mike would be able to provide the raw data should this not be readily accessible via the internet.

    I am not precisely sure what you want, but I am always up for a challenge. Ultimately, I suspect everything dials back into party share, and I am still rather taken about the impact of the TV debates when looking back at 2010's chart below.

    I have now incorporated the LibDem and UKIP numbers into my charts, and have played with the formatting, which will hopefully make them more readable.

    http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae304/Gadfly_bucket/5-poll-4party-060714.jpg

    http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae304/Gadfly_bucket/10-poll-4party-060714.jpg
    Great stuff Gadfly and thanks.

    What I was suggesting in my previous post was a chart showing Labour's share of the vote over the 12 months leading up to the 2010 GE, against which you would then be able to chart and therefore compare the Tories' progress over the 12 months leading up to the 2015 GE.
    In effect this would measure the incumbency element which actually occurred with Labour with what might similarly take effect with the Tories.

    Btw and excuse my ignorance, but I'm not familiar with "photobucket" - is this a means of preparing and presenting data, photographs, etc without actually needing to own and maintain one's own website?

  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited July 2014

    Good morning, everyone.

    Ah, Bercow. The noisiest midget in all the land.

    I wonder if this would affect a chapter in my WIP. The protagonist, Sir Edric, has an equal opportunities approach to contempt (he has it for pretty much everyone who isn't him), including taking the piss out of someone for being shorter than him. Under the politically correct bullshit Bercow espouses, would this be permitted?

    Ought I to be hauled before the oompa-loompa kangaroo court?


    From what I understand, Bercow is not popular in Westminster as he is seen to be partisan, that's why he is given short shrift by so many in the HOC..and why some others belittle him.
    Or is it that Bercow is seen to be not partisan enough towards his own party?
    Quite the opposite. I would have thought it was because he was deliberately anti his own party and fawning to the opposition. He is meant to be impartial..

    That is certainly the perception of Conservative partisans, but that is my point. Does their take on neutral really mean biased towards them? Bear in mind for instance that both Labour and Conservatives see the Civil Service as biased to the other side, and likewise the BBC.

    Not sure who is/was worse. Bercow or Martin. Its a close call. Think of the other Speakers. Lord Tonypandy, Betty Boothroyd Bernard Wetherill. All were respected by all sides.
    #
    Bercow isn't. That's down to him.. He shouts because he is politically impotent and has failed to gain the respect that others did
    Not wearing the proper clobber could be a factor. Pitching up in his lounge suit might mean Bercow sacrifices some of the ex officio authority of the Speaker.
    Perhaps. He ought to have thought about that. If it has anything to do with it, its down to him. I remember thinking it was a bad move at the time.

    Incidentally, I think Bercow behaves as he does (the shouting and berating) so that he gets on the telly.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    isam said:

    Norman. Tebbit on Marr practically admitting there was a big padeophile ring in Westminster in the 80s and it was ignored to protect the establishment.

    All came out in Belgium a few years ago, looks like UK follows suit.
    What to do about it? What to do about it that maintains public trust? What to do about it that does not prejudice prosecution?
    Deft footwork ahead.
    "What to do about it?"

    Don't let it build up. If it gets covered up or people moved upwards you'll end up with a group coagulated at the top.

    Assuming most countries are the same international institutions like the UN must be swarming.

  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    The other thing that would interest me is a breakdown of voting intention by years of education. Education for all has been a key plank of the left platform since before votes for women was. Have we finally reached the stage where all that's left of the uneducated is a right-leaning underclass? (After all, that's one intended outcome of the left's education policy...)

    In several of Ashcroft's larger polls he does just that giving you splits based on how long you remained in full-time education.

    As I recall UKIP voters left earliest & LDs the latest.

    But that is less interesting if you adjust for demographics - a large part of the effect is that UKIP voters are older, and fewer people used to go to university.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Root, Bercow's a cretinous moderniser, by which I mean he thinks changing things for the sake of it represents progress. Hence no fancy garb, instead opting for a supply teacher costume.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    FalseFlag said:

    Seeing as there seems to be a media blackout on the ongoing humanitarian disaster in the Donbass region, an update by the former chief of the CIA’s Soviet Foreign Policy Branch.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-risk-of-a-ukraine-bloodbath/

    Presumably our government isn't just blindly going a long with US foreign policy no matter how politically and morally wrong it is.

    I was surprised to see on the news yesterday the progress being made by the Ukrainian government in reasserting its sovereignty in Donbass. It appears after a very substantial delay the government has finally got its armed forces organised to a point that they can be effective. Once that point is reached partisans are unlikely to be able to offer substantial resistance without a lot more obvious Russian support than the Russians are willing to be seen to be giving at the moment.

    There are clear risks in this strategy, not least because Putin has put himself in something of a corner with his earlier bullish comments about supporting Russians abroad but a restoration of sovereignty combined with the sort of devolution previously agreed in the International talks would offer the best chance of a way forward. The risk of doing nothing is that the status quo simply becomes a fait accompli with Ukraine effectively broken up.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Ishmael_X said:

    The other thing that would interest me is a breakdown of voting intention by years of education. Education for all has been a key plank of the left platform since before votes for women was. Have we finally reached the stage where all that's left of the uneducated is a right-leaning underclass? (After all, that's one intended outcome of the left's education policy...)

    In several of Ashcroft's larger polls he does just that giving you splits based on how long you remained in full-time education.

    As I recall UKIP voters left earliest & LDs the latest.

    But that is less interesting if you adjust for demographics - a large part of the effect is that UKIP voters are older, and fewer people used to go to university.

    A typical comment by a L/Dem, but that also doesn't take account of those that are self educated to a high standard or those that took university degrees later in life.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Re Berrow. If Farage's plane crash on election day in 2010 had been fatal then Buckingham would have had to vote again. Bercow would not have been an MP at the opening of parliament and someone else would have been elected Speaker.

    In the re-run Buckingham election would Bercow have been the Tory candidate?
  • HenryGMansonHenryGManson Posts: 149
    O/T Wimbledon final. I'm backing FEDERER to beat Djokovic at 6/4 today (Ladbrokes). This should be a 4/5 or a 8/11 shot. FEDERER has only had his service broken once this tournament compared to Djokovic's 8. He was very impressive against Wawrinka who played a great match and I backed for the tournament. Djokovic not the player he was in 2012 and hasn't won a grand slam for 18 months. FEDERER's Grand Slam drought of 2 years is not much worse. The pair have met 3 times in 2014 and has won 2 of them. If FEDERER wins this he'll surpass Pete Sampras' Wimbledon titles - this will realistically be one of his last outstanding career goals. He should be slight favourite not odds against.
  • Square - please forgive my informality - seeing you referred to as Mr Root by Morris the Dancer has led me wonder whether you might be related to the legendary Henry of that ilk.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    DavidL said:

    This is holiday time in Scotland. Our schools come off early and lots of people go away before the English follow suit and drive up the prices.

    But even allowing for that my own purely subjective assessment is that, if anything, there is something of a lull in campaigning in the referendum. Things seem much quieter than they were in the Spring and you just have to wonder if people are either bored or think the result is looking inevitable. I suppose it is also possible that spending limits coming into effect has had some effect.

    Is this really it? I would be relieved but I don't believe that there are not going to be several more twists in the road before September.

    David, think it will be holidays, though Better Together's partners the Orange Order were out in force in Glasgow yesterday with their intelligent NAW banners. Usual drain on police resources and innocent young girl getting bottled. Oh how the mighty have fallen when they need to rely on odius groups to spread their fake message.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Putting my tinfoil hat on: was it the Duke of Edinburgh with the anti-aircraft gun?

    Re Berrow. If Farage's plane crash on election day in 2010 had been fatal then Buckingham would have had to vote again. Bercow would not have been an MP at the opening of parliament and someone else would have been elected Speaker.

    In the re-run Buckingham election would Bercow have been the Tory candidate?

  • WitanWitan Posts: 26
    If this missing famous file of top politicians sexual predation covers a period up to 1999 (according to the truthful BBC) hasn't it been lost by the Labour government of 1997?

    So if it was lost as part of a cover up of Tory nastiness why would a Labour government 'lose' it?

    There were certainly some dodgy Labour career MPs in the 80's and 90's.

    The Labour doyens' PIE stuff has been opened and then buried again recently.

    So some of the jumping to conclusions might be premature.

    The age of the top layer of UKIP suggests even they may not be excluded. So as it might damage all parties in some way expect a lot of huffing and puffing but I am not sure there can be much else except a flood of claims about being a victim. Real evidence may be very hard to find.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    I know others have said it but Scotland is now in full holiday mode. The schools in Central Scotland broke up a week ago and in many parts of rural Scotland (where we still have a fortnight "tattie" holiday in October) 3 days ago. I doubt many Scots will be remotely interested in the IndyRef now until the 3rd week in August when schools go back and life starts to return to normal. It will also signal the end of the Commonwealth Games.

    The final 4 weeks of the Indy Ref campaign will be frantic and filled with bile and vitriol as both sides become increasing frantic about last minute swings.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191

    Gadfly said:

    Financier [7.50] It would be interesting to compare with Brown's at the same stage in the last Parliament. And of course we don't know how the leaders will perform in the TV debates (if we have them). Nevertheless I agree with your implication that a Tory majority is the most likely outcome.

    I agree - such a comparison would be very informative, especially if the clever Gadfly (he says crawling) could present this on the basis of a 5 day/10 day moving average chart as he is currently doing in this thread for Lab vs Con shares of the vote. Hopefully Mike would be able to provide the raw data should this not be readily accessible via the internet.

    I am not precisely sure what you want, but I am always up for a challenge. Ultimately, I suspect everything dials back into party share, and I am still rather taken about the impact of the TV debates when looking back at 2010's chart below.

    I have now incorporated the LibDem and UKIP numbers into my charts, and have played with the formatting, which will hopefully make them more readable.

    http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae304/Gadfly_bucket/5-poll-4party-060714.jpg

    http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae304/Gadfly_bucket/10-poll-4party-060714.jpg
    Great stuff Gadfly and thanks.

    What I was suggesting in my previous post was a chart showing Labour's share of the vote over the 12 months leading up to the 2010 GE, against which you would then be able to chart and therefore compare the Tories' progress over the 12 months leading up to the 2015 GE.
    In effect this would measure the incumbency element which actually occurred with Labour with what might similarly take effect with the Tories.

    Btw and excuse my ignorance, but I'm not familiar with "photobucket" - is this a means of preparing and presenting data, photographs, etc without actually needing to own and maintain one's own website?

    Gotcha. I will have a look once I have walked the dogs.

    Photobucket is effectively a pin-board to which I can upload photographs that I wish to share, either individually or as albums. I have only really used it for posting images to forums such as PB. It should be possible to place the image directly within my post, but having practised on a couple of old threads, I cannot get it to work with Vanilla.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Yes that does look like good news.

    Given that this is public sector money with the added spin of EU involvement and bureaucracy I of course immediately recognise that some of the money will be wasted, some will be spent on vanity projects and some will be spent on ludicrous white elephants but hopefully the balance can create the opportunities for growth by overcoming bottlenecks, poor transport and lack of adequately trained staff.

    Heseltine is right that local decision making will be key to the mix of the good and the bad.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    So we are going to borrow even more than the current £100B per annum. Sounds like a good policy.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Government stimulus; EU money; shovel-ready projects. Plan A++++?
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited July 2014

    O/T Wimbledon final. I'm backing FEDERER to beat Djokovic at 6/4 today (Ladbrokes). This should be a 4/5 or a 8/11 shot. FEDERER has only had his service broken once this tournament compared to Djokovic's 8. He was very impressive against Wawrinka who played a great match and I backed for the tournament. Djokovic not the player he was in 2012 and hasn't won a grand slam for 18 months. FEDERER's Grand Slam drought of 2 years is not much worse. The pair have met 3 times in 2014 and has won 2 of them. If FEDERER wins this he'll surpass Pete Sampras' Wimbledon titles - this will realistically be one of his last outstanding career goals. He should be slight favourite not odds against.

    Henry - as ever you put forward a most convincing proposition. I must admit I had only considered Federer's slow but inevitable decline, without recognising that Djokovic might also be past his best, or at least that maybe he doesn't possess quite the same degree of hunger as he did two years ago.
    The other plus factor for Fed is that he'll have the crowd with him.

    I'm on!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    I know others have said it but Scotland is now in full holiday mode. The schools in Central Scotland broke up a week ago and in many parts of rural Scotland (where we still have a fortnight "tattie" holiday in October) 3 days ago. I doubt many Scots will be remotely interested in the IndyRef now until the 3rd week in August when schools go back and life starts to return to normal. It will also signal the end of the Commonwealth Games.

    The final 4 weeks of the Indy Ref campaign will be frantic and filled with bile and vitriol as both sides become increasing frantic about last minute swings.

    Easterross, we are likely to have a few fraught weeks as the Orange Order parade their support for Better Together. The violence and disorder should get some welcome publicity for Better Together campaign.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited July 2014

    Square - please forgive my informality - seeing you referred to as Mr Root by Morris the Dancer has led me wonder whether you might be related to the legendary Henry of that ilk.

    Err no, but I was at Lords yesterday watching a NZ guy Finch playing for the MCC v The Rest of the World scoring an amazing 181no and Youvraj Singh getting a big ton too (132)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    malcolmg said:

    I know others have said it but Scotland is now in full holiday mode. The schools in Central Scotland broke up a week ago and in many parts of rural Scotland (where we still have a fortnight "tattie" holiday in October) 3 days ago. I doubt many Scots will be remotely interested in the IndyRef now until the 3rd week in August when schools go back and life starts to return to normal. It will also signal the end of the Commonwealth Games.

    The final 4 weeks of the Indy Ref campaign will be frantic and filled with bile and vitriol as both sides become increasing frantic about last minute swings.

    Easterross, we are likely to have a few fraught weeks as the Orange Order parade their support for Better Together. The violence and disorder should get some welcome publicity for Better Together campaign.
    Where do you live Malcolm? As an east coaster I have never seen an Orange order march in person in my entire life. To suggest that this sad old remnant of the sort of bigotry that used to mar Scotland has any appreciable impact on Scottish life seems frankly odd to me and contrary to my experience.

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312
    edited July 2014

    Re Berrow. If Farage's plane crash on election day in 2010 had been fatal then Buckingham would have had to vote again. Bercow would not have been an MP at the opening of parliament and someone else would have been elected Speaker.

    In the re-run Buckingham election would Bercow have been the Tory candidate?

    Given how unpopular he seems to be in certain quarters I am surprised no-one stood against him as Speaker.

    Although I do recall some discussion about this and the balance of opinion was that, in the foremost democratic institution of a supposedly democratic country, for there to be a contested election would somehow be a disaster.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    malcolmg said:

    I know others have said it but Scotland is now in full holiday mode. The schools in Central Scotland broke up a week ago and in many parts of rural Scotland (where we still have a fortnight "tattie" holiday in October) 3 days ago. I doubt many Scots will be remotely interested in the IndyRef now until the 3rd week in August when schools go back and life starts to return to normal. It will also signal the end of the Commonwealth Games.

    The final 4 weeks of the Indy Ref campaign will be frantic and filled with bile and vitriol as both sides become increasing frantic about last minute swings.

    Easterross, we are likely to have a few fraught weeks as the Orange Order parade their support for Better Together. The violence and disorder should get some welcome publicity for Better Together campaign.
    Looking at the census map of Scottish religions: http://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/ods-web/datavis.jsp?theme=Religion_v2_September_2013&selectedWafers=0

    It does appear that the SNP seats are mostly in the areas of lowest religious affiliation. It seems that the Pope and King Billy are allied once more...
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Regarding height.... Napoleon was short but he did not let it define him
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    edited July 2014
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    I know others have said it but Scotland is now in full holiday mode. The schools in Central Scotland broke up a week ago and in many parts of rural Scotland (where we still have a fortnight "tattie" holiday in October) 3 days ago. I doubt many Scots will be remotely interested in the IndyRef now until the 3rd week in August when schools go back and life starts to return to normal. It will also signal the end of the Commonwealth Games.

    The final 4 weeks of the Indy Ref campaign will be frantic and filled with bile and vitriol as both sides become increasing frantic about last minute swings.

    Easterross, we are likely to have a few fraught weeks as the Orange Order parade their support for Better Together. The violence and disorder should get some welcome publicity for Better Together campaign.
    Where do you live Malcolm? As an east coaster I have never seen an Orange order march in person in my entire life. To suggest that this sad old remnant of the sort of bigotry that used to mar Scotland has any appreciable impact on Scottish life seems frankly odd to me and contrary to my experience.

    David, still alive and kicking on the west coast unfortunately, luckily nothing like it used to be. From what you see in herald today they are very embarrassing partners for the Better Together campaign.

    PS: I am in Ayrshire, yesterdays grand meeting was in Glasgow. You will see it in all its glory in September as they are having a Grand March in Edinburgh just before the vote, to support Better Together. Good overtime for the police that day and will be an eye opener for tourists.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    SeanT said:

    The guy who put £400,000 on No at 1/4 must be feeling pretty pleased.

    The odds on No, as of today, are 1/7

    My daughter put some money on at 1/4 but it wasn't £400K!

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    SeanT said:

    The guy who put £400,000 on No at 1/4 must be feeling pretty pleased.

    The odds on No, as of today, are 1/7

    The fake one you mean, first time I have ever heard of a bet like that and the odds not moving an inch at the time. Fools are easily fooled.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    malcolmg said:

    I know others have said it but Scotland is now in full holiday mode. The schools in Central Scotland broke up a week ago and in many parts of rural Scotland (where we still have a fortnight "tattie" holiday in October) 3 days ago. I doubt many Scots will be remotely interested in the IndyRef now until the 3rd week in August when schools go back and life starts to return to normal. It will also signal the end of the Commonwealth Games.

    The final 4 weeks of the Indy Ref campaign will be frantic and filled with bile and vitriol as both sides become increasing frantic about last minute swings.

    Easterross, we are likely to have a few fraught weeks as the Orange Order parade their support for Better Together. The violence and disorder should get some welcome publicity for Better Together campaign.
    Looking at the census map of Scottish religions: http://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/ods-web/datavis.jsp?theme=Religion_v2_September_2013&selectedWafers=0

    It does appear that the SNP seats are mostly in the areas of lowest religious affiliation. It seems that the Pope and King Billy are allied once more...
    I have to say it is a joke saying these people are religious. It is mainly in central belt and west coast, remnants of the industrial belt. Nothing like it was when I was a boy , just the dinosaurs left savouring their bitterness and harking back hundreds of years. Sooner it is dead the better.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Gadfly said:

    Toms said:

    Gadfly said:
    That's kinda interesting. It would be nice to see how its trends compare with the final result.
    I do like the way that moving averages smooth out the noise and better identify trends. I did something similar during the couple of months leading up to the 2010 general election, and posted daily updates on here. Things were rather different then, but looking back at the final chart it appears that the televised election debates had a bigger impact than I recall...

    http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae304/Gadfly_bucket/5-pollat2010generalelection.jpg
    That is a particularly interesting one. Thanks.

    It does look as if the Cleggasm affected all three parties, but took most votes off the Tories. With the Indyref looking a damp squib, the debates may be the only gamechanger left. I think Ed will do well at these, it is well within his comfort zone compared with baby kissing and sarnies.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    malcolmg said:

    I know others have said it but Scotland is now in full holiday mode. The schools in Central Scotland broke up a week ago and in many parts of rural Scotland (where we still have a fortnight "tattie" holiday in October) 3 days ago. I doubt many Scots will be remotely interested in the IndyRef now until the 3rd week in August when schools go back and life starts to return to normal. It will also signal the end of the Commonwealth Games.

    The final 4 weeks of the Indy Ref campaign will be frantic and filled with bile and vitriol as both sides become increasing frantic about last minute swings.

    Easterross, we are likely to have a few fraught weeks as the Orange Order parade their support for Better Together. The violence and disorder should get some welcome publicity for Better Together campaign.
    Looking at the census map of Scottish religions: http://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/ods-web/datavis.jsp?theme=Religion_v2_September_2013&selectedWafers=0

    It does appear that the SNP seats are mostly in the areas of lowest religious affiliation. It seems that the Pope and King Billy are allied once more...
    Great maps Mr Sox. Not seen that before.
This discussion has been closed.