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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Returning to the Holy Land after a gap of 46 years – and st
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Returning to the Holy Land after a gap of 46 years – and still no sign of peace
The above comment, made over dinner at the Jerusalem Press Club by a prominent Israeli journalist in mid-February to me and five other UK-based journalists, in a nutshell explained why we were there. The state of Israel, created by the United Nations in 1948, has an ongoing PR problem and needs if not friends people in the outside world who at least understand it.
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Thanks OGH.
Mood music ahead of this supposed US-Iranian deal.
The self-preservation gene must be strong in your offspring!
Anyone lost a huge amount of cannabis in the Burnley area? Don't panic, we found it! Pop in to the station to collect it.. #we'rewaiting"
twitter.com/BurnleyPolice/status/462845154177466368
What is the point of the UN when it seems every country is expected to conform to UN Resolutions except Israel? I resigned from the Conservative Friends of Israel in the aftermath of the 1st Gulf War in which Benjamin Netanyahu came to prominence as the official government spokesman. I am a strong supporter of the 2-state solution and believe Israel has an absolute right to exist in peace. However if I was a Palestinian farmer forced off my land to enable Russian Jewish immigrants to build houses, I know what I would do and sitting watching and letting it happen peacefully would not be it!
I cannot see a long term solution until there is a fundamental change in attitude in Israel and part of that will be neutralising the power of the extreme right wing religious parties which have held so much power and influence since 1948. I also think they will need to revisit the land boundaries. A Palestine comprising 2 separate areas of land will simply not work. Look at East and West Pakistan.
FPT: Mr. Dickson, Salmond is not on 34% in the UK. It's a completely daft comparison, as you well know.
I see the PB 2014 Mk3 game is up to 6/7 players (password: catsandkittens). A number of us will be in our first or second games, so if you're a newcomer (or an old hand wanting to prey on the inexperienced) do feel free to join in.
I saw threats today that due to Darling being carp and not being seen for 6 weeks , Cameron is planning to come to Scotland , the big pansy will get a roasting if he deigns to have any public debate rather than the usual behind closed doors with only acolytes asking tame questions.
Southam thinks saying the same happened in Israel benefits his argument
The Palestinians are not going away, nor is their claim to the land. Refusing to negotiate, continual taking of more land and making life for them difficult if not impossible, these are not actions to promote peaceful coexistence, they are actions to oppress terrorise and demean. Israel is surrounded by people it has made its enemies yes, but that doesn't justify it being a terrorist state. And it does terrorise. And the west allows it to disregard and flagrantly breech every UN resolution it chooses.
A two state solution - almost certainly with the UN forcibly separating the two like in Cyprus - is the only long term solution. But the settlers will never allow it. So we have endless slaughter. Very sad
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152056917395814&set=a.410814070813.186068.101124430813&type=1&theatre
SNP 33%
Labour 31%
Conservatives 12%
UKIP 10%
Liberal Democrats 7%
Others 6%
With Cameron at a pathetic 12% in the latest full-sample poll it is hardly surprising that his minders keep him away from the Scottish general public. He is a big feartie. At least Thatcher and Major had the balls to occasionally get out and about and meet ordinary Scots.
Is that something worth emphasis? I mean talking about the level of fluency of their English is one thing, but if they're essentially bi-lingual does it matter what is their 'first' and 'second' language.
Of course the whole language issue is a bit flipped on its head in Wales, more contentiously so in some parts than others. (I'm from a very anglicised bit of Wales, which is often semi-jokingly referred to as not being 'proper Wales' by other Welshier parts).
Please would you point me to an "ordinary Scot".
I have yet to have the pleasure of meeting one.
Helps create a them and us feeling that would be less if English was first language
I'm off now to meet my immigrant girlfriend haha
More people than ever before are admitting voting for and being a member of ukip?!
Fair enough if you're not keen but that argument is ridic!
Go spend 4 hours knocking doors on a Scottish housing estate. Any Scottish housing estate. Ask the people that answer the doors about David Cameron, about the Union, about Salmond, about Lamont, about the health service, about transport, about housing. Get a feel for the lie of the land.
You haven't got the guts, but the responses would deeply worry every Unionist who dared.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5607044/Ex-Chancellor-Gordon-Brown-claims-for-1-calculator-on-expenses.html
PLEASE DO NOT VOTE FOR UKIP IF……
• If you are a woman, if you love a woman, if you are friends with a woman, if you have a daughter or sister.
• If you think politicians should do the job they are paid for.
• If you think that Nigel Farage is a good honest bloke, down to earth, represents the common man, and is the sort of bloke you could have a drink with.
• If you believe that people have the right to protest.
• If you think that people can be judged by the company they keep.
• If you believe that the AV referendum was a waste of time and Tax-payers money.
• If you believe that UKIP represent you, the normal people.
• If you believe that UKIP can do a better job of running the country than the other main parties.
• If you think that political posters should be honest.
• If you are a Royalist.
• If you have concerns about the amount of aid we send abroad, but are not a horrible racist.
• If you, or your children ride a bike. (Honestly)
• If you think that most of the loutish behaviour from UKIP is a handful of oiks.
• If you are northern.
• If you are concerned about German influence in the UK.
• If you think that Vladimir Putin is a bit of a worry.
• If you have a child, and think that children have some value for our future.
• If you are Asian, love or care about someone who is Asian.
• If you oppose apartheid.
• If you just hate racism.
• If you care about the NHS.
• If you are gay, or have gay friends, family or people that you love who are gay.
• If you are concerned that UKIP are simply the acceptable face of racism, supplanting the BNP and EDL.
• If you are concerned about security on Facebook….
• If you listen to their own people…
Each reason supported by argument and quotations on: http://maxjfreeman.com/2014/05/03/100-reasons-not-to-vote-ukip/
You can even add your own reasons in the comment section! He hasn't reached 100 yet. Opportunity for an 80 year old here.
see here's the thing; I believe they will fail as a political party because they don't have the resolve to create a substantial and comprehensive manifesto which they can then fight elections with.
But what is irritating (even if done with some elan by eg. SO) is to tell Kippers that their opinions are "wrong". Still less to equate their legitimate views on immigration and the EU with racism (which I am not saying SO does).
I have said this before - @iSam doesn't need my help in arguing his cause but the mini-PB version of the intellectual/political elite sneering at the Kipper POV exemplifies why on a broader scale, they are picking up so much support.
Given that the euros are less important than answering a survey from auto-trader to the British Public I am quite looking forward to UKIP getting a stonking majority.
Don't forget that at Oslo and at Cap David the Palestinians were getting almost everything they wanted, but they refused to deal when the chips were down.
I am sure that if the Palestinian leadership were able to deliver sustainable compliance with a two-state solution (and accept no right of return) the Israelis would do a deal overnight.
https://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php
Nice going David "liberal Conservative" Cameron. It's funny how much he believed in press freedom when the Murdoch press could be clamped down upon, but not when it means sending round the muscle to the Guardian offices...
It seems that an "amnesty" (for those yet to be convicted) simply wouldn't have flown in NI with the electorate and the politicians so the UK Govt operated as though there was one to get the GFA through and hoped the details would sort themselves out subsequently.
Hence Gerry Adams couldn't ever say "yes" to any incriminating question (a la SA truth & reconciliation) because he wasn't assured immunity from prosecution because the GFA didn't allow for t. But de facto there was an amnesty and now for some idiotic reason, that understanding has been ignored by PSNI (and...?).
Not such a great example for future "peacemakers".
The author claims that Farage said the 2010 manifesto which he launched, and to which he co-authored the preface, was 'tosh'. That's a smear, completely untrue. He said it was 'drivel'.
Compared to the rest of the world, we're looking pretty good.
'Go spend 4 hours knocking doors on a Scottish housing estate. Any Scottish housing estate. Ask the people that answer the doors about David Cameron, about the Union, about Salmond, about Lamont, about the health service, about transport, about housing. Get a feel for the lie of the land.'
What's wrong with the health service,transport & housing,Salmond falling short?
We're worse than most of the developed world, and a fair few developing countries to boot.
If you want to understand the history, read the judgment of the Central Criminal Court (Mr Justice Sweeney) granting a stay for abuse of process in R v Downey. There never was an amnesty, either de facto or de jure.
There was a prisoner release agreement, given effect to in this country by the Northern Ireland (Sentences) Act 1998. There are crucial distinctions. Firstly, it applied only to those who had been convicted of an offence. Accordingly, it is still open to the police to investigate, and for the Crown to institute proceedings for an offence committed in the course of the Troubles. Indeed, if it is in the public interest, it their duty to do so. Secondly, for prisoners serving indeterminate sentences (i.e. those convicted of murder, or otherwise sentenced to life imprisonment), the agreement provided that they be released on licence. This ensures that the sentence is still extant, for example they are prohibited from voting in parliamentary elections. More importantly, they are liable to recall to custody for contravening the conditions of their licence, particularly in relation to participating in terrorist-related activity. Moreover, if the cease fire breaks down, the Secretary of State may suspend the scheme, without prejudice to the validity of any licence granted thereunder before the suspension.
" Good old Nigel who you could have a drink with down the pub, probably wouldn't want to sit next to an oik like you anyway, because you, unlike him, would not have been able to afford to go to the £10k a year school that Nigel was educated in"
If we shouldn't vote for a party that has privately educated leaders. Who is there left to vote for?
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools.
R.U.Kipling
Then The Nabavi would approve. I think he has a prejudice against provincial organists!
After all they do go on a bit.
It is after all a thread on Israel.
You say there was no amnesty as did I and we are both right but, crucially, the UK Govt behaved as though there was an amnesty ("Gerry Adams in IRA shock breaking news"?) so that they could push through with the GFA and Gerry Adams was the person who they could do business with.
It was an informal arrangement. Which has now been broken.
We can't really tell at this stage whether the voters will mostly then revert as they expect, since the dynamics will change if UKIP are ahead in lots of seats. Will we start to see UKIP barcharts saying the Euros show that only they can beat ... here?
But the realpolitik of it is that somewhere along the lines (as we are in that game anyway) the implicit understanding should have been communicated to the PSNI and other agencies.
My colleague said "Well, I agree with half of that tweet."
As he's a devout Muslim, I suspect I know which was which. So even when Ukip are doing their best to annoy people, they're still getting 50% approval.
But then I realised it was founded by an Old Etonian and is currently led by a British-Australian who attended an all-girls private school in Burwood, New South Wales.
I fear the only course left for a principled voter is to seek advice from an "ordinary Scot" living in a grim central-belt housing estate.
Either that or to take the waters in Bath.
'Hilarious. You automatically assume that the answers would be a problem for Salmond. Just further proof of the lamentable ignorance of Scottish society here at PB.'
Hilarious,you are unable to answer a simple question,guess that's just the lamentable ignorance of someone living in Sweden.
As they seem to have been such a jumble of left-right-centre on socio-economic issues I also believe it will be fascinating.
One thing's for sure, NFarage won't be able to respond with an "oh I haven't read that" any more.
But, chatroom interaction analysis can see how some of your responses are not just amusing but mocking perhaps sneering.
There is a minority of people (perhaps a majority?) who don't like the changing face of British society. It is a legitimate view to have and on some scale we all agree with it if you put no immigration at one end and, say, 50 million immigrants at the other.
You may not believe UKIP racist (I'm sure there are plenty of racists in every party) but the impression you give is that those views are not worthy of engagement and only worthy of contempt.
Perhaps UKIP will deliver where Mr Cameron did not?
A nod and a wink from Tony Blair or Jonathan Powell doesn't bind anyone else.
haha and this is the person who said that the July marches are similar to a bonfire party on Wandsworth common.
But, and I have no intention of reprising our discussion from the other night, much as I appreciate that you would like to think of NI now as being at the sunlit upland end of societal behaviour, the reality is that those 1973 emotions are not very far below the surface.
My point was that there was no amnesty from the GFA so the UK Govt and Gerry Adams operated as though there was one. It was a lie but a workable one and now the PSNI have called the bluff.
My view is that that is a mistake. I'm really not sure what your view is save that you are a local and therefore have an unparalleled and far more insightful view of what is happening.
Like a frog in a well, in fact.
How do we know that the Queen's dinner guest will not be next ?
yeah all that.
But sometimes you have to get your hands dirty to achieve a greater good and in this instance, although I can't think how on earth they would have done it, the greater good was peace in NI.
And even though @Alanbrooke and @Y0kel think that NI is similar in social cohesion to Eastbourne but with worse weather, the reality is that things are still very volatile.
Give me the 1744 judicial precedent on that one....
who the hell are Gerry Adams and Martin McG for heaven's sake?
They are in power. Or are at the moment - who knows what surprises UK Govt/PSNI have in store for them.
The GFA tested what was at the very limit of what anyone could put up with and that didn't include amnesties. And yet you want to make it more rigorous for a "lasting peace".
But sometimes you have to get your hands dirty to achieve a greater good and in this instance, although I can't think how on earth they would have done it, the greater good was peace in NI.
And even though @Alanbrooke and @Y0kel think that NI is similar in social cohesion to Eastbourne but with worse weather, the reality is that things are still very volatile.
Give me the 1744 judicial precedent on that one....
things are very volatile - based on your vast experience of Surrey presumably.
As I said to you the other night the average NI teenager has no direct experience of terrorism. Bar some nutters there's no wish to go back. Nor in some sense could they as the world has moved on
1. US support for "the struggle" died on 9/11
2. The USSR no longer exists
3. The Irish government is probably more anti SF than the UK one these days
4. David Cameron is a fantastic PM ( ok that's a piss take )
As I said to you the other night the average NI teenager has no direct experience of terrorism.
Yep I saw that on the TV. Are the "Loyalist Blackskulls" a basketball team?
Many conservatives have argued (quite rightly as well) that condemning someone for the choices their parents made such as which school to send them to is quite frankly ridiculous. Anyone who is a member of such a party that is subject to frequent attacks on its leaders yet still feels they should turn around and accuse other politicians of the same "crime" is not to mince words an idiot