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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UKIP move into the lead for first time in YouGov Euros poll

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited April 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UKIP move into the lead for first time in YouGov Euros poll

"@MSmithsonPB Judging by S Times front page it looks a though its YouGov poll has UKIP in lead for Euros. pic.twitter.com/e8BAAmgzCO

Read the full story here


Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited April 2014
    Other YouGov poll findings

    How would you vote in a EU membership referendum, stay 40%, Leave 37%, DK 18%, Wouldn't vote 5%

    How would you vote if David Cameron renegotiated our relationship with the EU. Stay 50%, Leave 26%, DK 19%, Wouldn't vote 5%

    Should Cameron seek to the end the right of Non-British EU citizens to live and work in the EU. Yes 45%, No 35%, Not sure 20%

    Are the UKIP posters racist, Yes 25%, No 66%

    Is Nigel Farage racist, Yes 27%, No 50%

    Is Nigel Farage hypocritical to employ his German wife as his secretary, Yes 44%, No 40%
  • YouGov Westminster VI poll

    Lab 36, Con 31, UKIP 15, LD 9
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Oh how I'd love this to play out in May, would win me all the bets...

    Of course, the last two times UKIP have surged in the final fortnight to month, so UKIP 40%+ on that basis. jk; clearly that surge from media coverage and so on is largely priced in now they are so much more prominent all year round. Still, 4 more weeks of the EU being the topic of debate can't hurt them. Even ignoring this poll they're pretty well positioned on Labour's shoulder given their strength on the final sprint.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Hopefully Mercer will have to step down ! Nothing personal against him, would just love to see a by election :D
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    FPT
    AndyJS said:

    The question is would UKIP do even better with Paul Nuttall as leader?

    No, Farage is incredibly charismatic and pretty astute too - hence his making UKIP the success they are today. Next question.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Game over, I think.

    I've thought along that the most interesting/unpredictable aspect of these elections is the battle for 4th place between the Lib Dems and the Greens.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    YouGov Euros UNS

    UKIP 25 (+12)
    Lab 25 (+12)
    Con 12 (-14)
    LD 3 (-8)
    Grn 2 (nc)
    SNP 2 (nc)
    Plaid 1 (nc)

    UKIP first or joint first in seats in every English region, bar London and the North East...

    Tories joint first only in the SE.
  • Sunday Times say

    UKIP could profit from further Tory troubles this week because the disgraced MP Patrick Mercer is set to quit and force a by-election over a cash for questions scandal.

    The Commons standards committee will meet on Tuesday to ban him from parliament for six months. The MP for Newark, a winnable seat for UKIP, has told friends that if he is suspended for more than a month he will have to stand down.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Pulpstar said:

    Hopefully Mercer will have to step down ! Nothing personal against him, would just love to see a by election :D

    Agreed on both counts. I do feel bad sometimes about how my betting and voyeuristic instincts around politics make me look at ill or scandal-ridden MPs and think "On the plus side, a by-election would be awesome."
  • Interesting the Sunday Times says Tory MPs think Dave won't be replaced, even if they finish third

    “Cameron is seated on a stool with four legs,” said this ally of Adam Afriyie, the backbencher who was accused last year of plotting against the prime minister.

    “He needs to keep the party above 30% in the polls. He needs to lead Ed Miliband on the question of who would make the best prime minister. He needs us to stay ahead on the economy and he needs to personally poll better than the party.”

    Cameron is currently passing each of the four tests.

    “The tide has turned in Osborne and Cameron’s direction,” says one MP present at the No Turning Back dinners.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    SeanT said:

    It's pretty clear that metropolitan, elitist liberal attacks on UKIP - for racism, corruption, etc - just make the average voter MORE inclined to vote UKIP, because voters dislike and distrust the metropolitan liberal elite. Cf the indyref debate in Scotland.

    UKIP are the F U party, the party for everyone who is bored of Guardianista sneering and PC censorship. A good example is Farage's Roma remarks. They aren't racist, they are factual. They may be offensive to some, and also rude, but he is stating the blunt truth. As everyone with a brain knows.

    Trying to shut him up by accusing him of bigotry actually plays into his hands, and gives him more positive publicity and boosts his polling. He ain't Griffin. Voters simply don't think he's a nazi.

    The old parties need to find a new way of opposing a genuinely new political force.

    How true sean,top post.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    Danny565 said:

    Game over, I think.

    I've thought along that the most interesting/unpredictable aspect of these elections is the battle for 4th place between the Lib Dems and the Greens.

    It's hard to see UKIP failing to come first (black swan events excepted)

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I don't think Newark would be an automatic UKIP gain like a by-election somewhere like Great Yarmouth would be. There are plenty of old-fashioned Tories there who will stick with the party no matter what. So it would be close.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    RodCrosby said:

    YouGov Euros UNS

    UKIP 25 (+12)
    Lab 25 (+12)
    Con 12 (-14)
    LD 3 (-8)
    Grn 2 (nc)
    SNP 2 (nc)
    Plaid 1 (nc)

    UKIP first or joint first in seats in every English region, bar London and the North East...

    Tories joint first only in the SE.

    Is there anything you can do to make that LD number zero?

    Would a comet help? Newcastle beating Manchester at home? Anything?
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited April 2014
    So, the Coalition to lose 60% of their seats under PR...

    Whouda thunk it?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    If there is a by-election in Newark it will presumably be after the local elections. Are any local councils near the constituency holding ballots? Could be crucial information for predictions.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited April 2014
    Nigel Farage appears to be more non-stick than Teflon Tony.

    It is clear that a sizable section of the UK electorate want what Farage is offering and nothing is to go to change their mind.

    Also interesting how few people seem at all offended / taken in by the faux outrage over those posters. The Labour MP screaming racist all over the place might have to re-tool his message. It does seem simply screaming racist about Farage / UKIP isn't going to work.

    Seems like another example of how out of touch the metro media elite are in relation to what people of the UK think is offensive / racist.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited April 2014
    Yay, now that the Sunday Times have published their yougov polling early, this means I can go to bed before midnight on a Saturday night.

    Thank you The Sunday TImes.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Is there anything you can do to make that LD number zero?

    Would a comet help? Newcastle beating Manchester at home? Anything?

    Re-animate the Literal Democrats?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    RodCrosby said:

    Is there anything you can do to make that LD number zero?

    Would a comet help? Newcastle beating Manchester at home? Anything?

    Re-animate the Literal Democrats?
    :-)

  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    RodCrosby said:

    YouGov Euros UNS

    UKIP 25 (+12)
    Lab 25 (+12)
    Con 12 (-14)
    LD 3 (-8)
    Grn 2 (nc)
    SNP 2 (nc)
    Plaid 1 (nc)

    UKIP first or joint first in seats in every English region, bar London and the North East...

    Tories joint first only in the SE.

    Maestro Crosby, what are the chances of UKIP winning a Scottish MEP seat?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2014
    Logically, Farage ought not to be taken seriously due to his background of being a banker. But the public don't care. Reminds one of Tony Blair's ridiculously high popularity ratings in 1997 and 1998 which were running at about 70% IIRC.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    RodCrosby said:

    YouGov Euros UNS

    UKIP 25 (+12)
    Lab 25 (+12)
    Con 12 (-14)
    LD 3 (-8)
    Grn 2 (nc)
    SNP 2 (nc)
    Plaid 1 (nc)

    UKIP first or joint first in seats in every English region, bar London and the North East...

    Tories joint first only in the SE.

    Maestro Crosby, what are the chances of UKIP winning a Scottish MEP seat?
    On this poll, they gain the Tories' Scottish seat...
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    Crossover !
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Nigel Farage appears to be more non-stick than Teflon Tony.

    It is clear that a sizable section of the UK electorate want what Farage is offering and nothing is to go to change their mind.

    Also interesting how few people seem at all offended / taken in by the faux outrage over those posters. The Labour MP screaming racist all over the place might have to re-tool his message. It does seem simply screaming racist about Farage / UKIP isn't going to work.

    Seems like another example of how out of touch the metro media elite are in relation to what people of the UK think is offensive / racist.

    Good post except for the last bit,it's not what the people of the uk finds offensive/racist,it's them living in the real world of what is really happening in this country.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    SeanT said:

    Nigel Farage appears to be more non-stick than Teflon Tony.

    It is clear that a sizable section of the UK electorate want what Farage is offering and nothing is to go to change their mind.

    Also interesting how few people seem at all offended / taken in by the faux outrage over those posters. The Labour MP screaming racist all over the place might have to re-tool his message. It does seem simply screaming racist about Farage / UKIP isn't going to work.

    Seems like another example of how out of touch the metro media elite are in relation to what people of the UK think is offensive / racist.

    Screaming "racist" at the UKIP posters is not only ineffective, it is counterproductive, as I say upthread. This is because

    1. The posters aren't racist
    2. It reminds everyone how much they hate people who constantly scream "racist"

    Thus the UKIP vote goes up.
    Agreed....it is also interesting how paralyzed Cameron is to ever say anything remotely controversial. I wonder if he would get more respect if when he said something that then got incoming, if he turned round and said bulls##t e.g the Christian Country stuff.

    That is what Farage and Boris say and that seems to do them no harm.

    Instead, Cameron just goes to ground / mumbles some nonsense when the predictable incoming comes from lefty special interest groups.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    Nigel Farage appears to be more non-stick than Teflon Tony.

    It is clear that a sizable section of the UK electorate want what Farage is offering and nothing is to go to change their mind.

    Also interesting how few people seem at all offended / taken in by the faux outrage over those posters. The Labour MP screaming racist all over the place might have to re-tool his message. It does seem simply screaming racist about Farage / UKIP isn't going to work.

    Seems like another example of how out of touch the metro media elite are in relation to what people of the UK think is offensive / racist.

    You can only cry wolf so often. "Racist" isn't a potent line of attack any more.

  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Next said:

    Crossover !

    Basil is getting despondent. It looks like this carrying of the Tory polling crossover goalposts will be long term.

    TRAMADOLADINGDONG!
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    The alleged ringleader of the Trojan Horse plot wrote a detailed blueprint for the radical “Islamisation” of secular state schools which closely resembles what appears to be happening in Birmingham.

    Tahir Alam, chairman of governors at Park View school in the city, called for “girls [to] be covered except for their hands and faces”, advocated gender segregation in some school activities, and attacked a “multicultural approach” to collective worship.

    He described how state schools must be changed to “take account of Muslim sensitivities and sensibilities with respect to sexual morality” with “girlfriend/boyfriend as well as homosexual relationships” treated as “not acceptable practices according to Islamic teachings”.

    The disclosure comes as teachers at Park View said a boy and a girl in their GCSE year have been suspended after being spotted holding hands, only weeks before they were due to take their exams. “They have done this to quite a few students in Year 11,” said one member of staff. “That they should continue with it, even with all the scrutiny we are under, just beggars belief.”

    In his 72-page document, published by the Muslim Council of Britain in 2007, Mr Alam and his co-author, Muhammad Abdul Bari, attacked many state schools for not being “receptive of legitimate and reasonable requests made by Muslim parents and pupils in relation to their faith-based aspirations and concerns.”

    Mr Alam’s document says that aspects of the Nat-ional Curriculum, such as dance, should be ignored as “not consistent with the Islamic requirements for modesty”. It adds that “dance performances before a mixed-gender audience may be objectionable”.

    Schools should “try to avoid scheduling swimming lessons during Ramadan”, the document says, to avoid Muslim pupils accidentally swallowing water and breaking their fast. “School balls, discos and fashion shows that might inadvertently exclude pupils from the Islamic faith background” should be avoided, it adds.

    Khalid Mahmood, the Labour MP for Birmingham Perry Barr, said: “Mr Alam has been planning this for 15 years. He goes around making these schools religious by manipulating governors, and bringing in certain teachers. He was able to hone the [tactics] in Birmingham that he drafted in this report.”

    Further evidence has emerged of radicalisation at Park View. Speaking to The Telegraph, a former member of staff said that a “member of staff” at the school last year put up posters in the corridors with the message: “If you do not pray, you are worse than a kafir” an insulting term for non-Muslims. “Those were the exact words”, the former staff member said. “Many staff, including some of the Muslim staff, complained and the posters were taken down.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10790441/
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    AndyJS said:

    Logically, Farage ought not to be taken seriously due to his background of being a banker. But the public don't care. Reminds one of Tony Blair's ridiculously high popularity ratings in 1997 and 1998 which were running at about 70% IIRC.

    The thing about Farage is, I honestly don't think he's particularly charismatic at all. In any previous era of politics, I don't think he would've made much impact. The thing that's different now is that he stands out against such a historically woefully uninspiring political class. They're all so obsessed in talking in impenetrable political jargon to make themselves sound more intelligent, and scrabbling over the so-called "centre ground" with their silly games and micro-positioning, that all it takes is for someone to speak in something close to plain English (even if in a fairly posh accent like Farage has) and to actually have the balls to stand for something distinctive, and that's all it takes to prosper in the sea of cowardly triangulating beige Professional Politicians.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682

    Sunday Times say

    UKIP could profit from further Tory troubles this week because the disgraced MP Patrick Mercer is set to quit and force a by-election over a cash for questions scandal.

    The Commons standards committee will meet on Tuesday to ban him from parliament for six months. The MP for Newark, a winnable seat for UKIP, has told friends that if he is suspended for more than a month he will have to stand down.

    I noted the comment on the previous thread that Cameron will offer anything he can to prevent Mercer from resigning and forcing a by-election.

    As someone who worked with him to get him first elected and used to go drinking with Patrick I have to say I feel it is extremely unlikely there is anything Cameron could offer that would overcome Patrick's deep and abiding hate for the PM. He has never really made any secret of this even before his various public fallings out. I suspect that with his own political career over he would probably take some pleasure in causing a bit more grief for Cameron.

    That said. Mercer had well over 50% of the vote at the last election and no matter how much I might like the idea I really can't see UKIP making that much impact in the town, not least because it has benefited from and accepted Eastern European settlement for decades longer than most of the rest of the country.

    This is all just my personal opinion of course but having lived in Newark for almost 40 years I like to think I know a bit about the constituency.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T:

    Amusing piece by Theodore Dalrymple:

    http://www.city-journal.org/html/7_2_oh_to_be.html

    "The British have a curious attitude toward wealth: they desire it for themselves but wish to deny it to others. And so, not surprisingly, there are very few methods of acquiring wealth of which they approve. Among them is gambling."
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB

    This hasn't happened for years. Tonight's YouGov Euros poll represents a 2% swing TO the LDs from CON


    Damian Thompson ✔ @holysmoke

    @MSmithsonPB don't get your hopes up, Mike

  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Danny565 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Logically, Farage ought not to be taken seriously due to his background of being a banker. But the public don't care. Reminds one of Tony Blair's ridiculously high popularity ratings in 1997 and 1998 which were running at about 70% IIRC.

    The thing about Farage is, I honestly don't think he's particularly charismatic at all. In any previous era of politics, I don't think he would've made much impact. The thing that's different now is that he stands out against such a historically woefully uninspiring political class. They're all so obsessed in talking in impenetrable political jargon to make themselves sound more intelligent, and scrabbling over the so-called "centre ground" with their silly games and micro-positioning, that all it takes is for someone to speak in something close to plain English (even if in a fairly posh accent like Farage has) and to actually have the balls to stand for something distinctive, and that's all it takes to prosper in the sea of cowardly triangulating beige Professional Politicians.
    I disagree. Farage is a political phenomenon. He's the most interesting politician since Thatcher.

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737


    Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB

    This hasn't happened for years. Tonight's YouGov Euros poll represents a 2% swing TO the LDs from CON


    Damian Thompson ✔ @holysmoke

    @MSmithsonPB don't get your hopes up, Mike

    Since 2009, yes. Since the last poll it's 1%...
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Sunday Times say

    UKIP could profit from further Tory troubles this week because the disgraced MP Patrick Mercer is set to quit and force a by-election over a cash for questions scandal.

    The Commons standards committee will meet on Tuesday to ban him from parliament for six months. The MP for Newark, a winnable seat for UKIP, has told friends that if he is suspended for more than a month he will have to stand down.

    I noted the comment on the previous thread that Cameron will offer anything he can to prevent Mercer from resigning and forcing a by-election.

    As someone who worked with him to get him first elected and used to go drinking with Patrick I have to say I feel it is extremely unlikely there is anything Cameron could offer that would overcome Patrick's deep and abiding hate for the PM. He has never really made any secret of this even before his various public fallings out. I suspect that with his own political career over he would probably take some pleasure in causing a bit more grief for Cameron.

    That said. Mercer had well over 50% of the vote at the last election and no matter how much I might like the idea I really can't see UKIP making that much impact in the town, not least because it has benefited from and accepted Eastern European settlement for decades longer than most of the rest of the country.

    This is all just my personal opinion of course but having lived in Newark for almost 40 years I like to think I know a bit about the constituency.
    Would Mr Mercer resign though? It's a lot of money to give up.

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Danny565 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Logically, Farage ought not to be taken seriously due to his background of being a banker. But the public don't care. Reminds one of Tony Blair's ridiculously high popularity ratings in 1997 and 1998 which were running at about 70% IIRC.

    The thing about Farage is, I honestly don't think he's particularly charismatic at all. In any previous era of politics, I don't think he would've made much impact. The thing that's different now is that he stands out against such a historically woefully uninspiring political class. They're all so obsessed in talking in impenetrable political jargon to make themselves sound more intelligent, and scrabbling over the so-called "centre ground" with their silly games and micro-positioning, that all it takes is for someone to speak in something close to plain English (even if in a fairly posh accent like Farage has) and to actually have the balls to stand for something distinctive, and that's all it takes to prosper in the sea of cowardly triangulating beige Professional Politicians.
    I disagree. Farage is a political phenomenon. He's the most interesting politician since Thatcher.


    You must admit the other 3 are like political robots compared to farage or salmond.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Sunday Times say

    UKIP could profit from further Tory troubles this week because the disgraced MP Patrick Mercer is set to quit and force a by-election over a cash for questions scandal.

    The Commons standards committee will meet on Tuesday to ban him from parliament for six months. The MP for Newark, a winnable seat for UKIP, has told friends that if he is suspended for more than a month he will have to stand down.

    I noted the comment on the previous thread that Cameron will offer anything he can to prevent Mercer from resigning and forcing a by-election.

    As someone who worked with him to get him first elected and used to go drinking with Patrick I have to say I feel it is extremely unlikely there is anything Cameron could offer that would overcome Patrick's deep and abiding hate for the PM. He has never really made any secret of this even before his various public fallings out. I suspect that with his own political career over he would probably take some pleasure in causing a bit more grief for Cameron.

    That said. Mercer had well over 50% of the vote at the last election and no matter how much I might like the idea I really can't see UKIP making that much impact in the town, not least because it has benefited from and accepted Eastern European settlement for decades longer than most of the rest of the country.

    This is all just my personal opinion of course but having lived in Newark for almost 40 years I like to think I know a bit about the constituency.
    Would Mr Mercer resign though? It's a lot of money to give up.

    Would he get paid during his "suspension"?
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Danny565 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Logically, Farage ought not to be taken seriously due to his background of being a banker. But the public don't care. Reminds one of Tony Blair's ridiculously high popularity ratings in 1997 and 1998 which were running at about 70% IIRC.

    The thing about Farage is, I honestly don't think he's particularly charismatic at all. In any previous era of politics, I don't think he would've made much impact. The thing that's different now is that he stands out against such a historically woefully uninspiring political class. They're all so obsessed in talking in impenetrable political jargon to make themselves sound more intelligent, and scrabbling over the so-called "centre ground" with their silly games and micro-positioning, that all it takes is for someone to speak in something close to plain English (even if in a fairly posh accent like Farage has) and to actually have the balls to stand for something distinctive, and that's all it takes to prosper in the sea of cowardly triangulating beige Professional Politicians.
    I disagree. Farage is a political phenomenon. He's the most interesting politician since Thatcher.


    You must admit the other 3 are like political robots compared to farage or salmond.
    I regard Salmond as a Blair era product and mistake. He's still with us like Iraq and Afghanistan, alas.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    "UKIP move into the lead for first time in YouGov Euros poll"

    Oh, what a surprise.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

    Alexander Britton ‏@adbritton 26m

    Interesting... "MT @MSmithsonPB: S Times reporting that Newark MP Patrick Mercer is set to quit cash for questions scandal"

    Oh, what a surprise.

    *chortle*
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682

    Sunday Times say

    UKIP could profit from further Tory troubles this week because the disgraced MP Patrick Mercer is set to quit and force a by-election over a cash for questions scandal.

    The Commons standards committee will meet on Tuesday to ban him from parliament for six months. The MP for Newark, a winnable seat for UKIP, has told friends that if he is suspended for more than a month he will have to stand down.

    I noted the comment on the previous thread that Cameron will offer anything he can to prevent Mercer from resigning and forcing a by-election.

    As someone who worked with him to get him first elected and used to go drinking with Patrick I have to say I feel it is extremely unlikely there is anything Cameron could offer that would overcome Patrick's deep and abiding hate for the PM. He has never really made any secret of this even before his various public fallings out. I suspect that with his own political career over he would probably take some pleasure in causing a bit more grief for Cameron.

    That said. Mercer had well over 50% of the vote at the last election and no matter how much I might like the idea I really can't see UKIP making that much impact in the town, not least because it has benefited from and accepted Eastern European settlement for decades longer than most of the rest of the country.

    This is all just my personal opinion of course but having lived in Newark for almost 40 years I like to think I know a bit about the constituency.
    Would Mr Mercer resign though? It's a lot of money to give up.

    I think he has a lot of other potential lines of income from his writing and military tours. And with just over a year to go I am not sure it would make that much difference to him.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    This would have made party politic's in this country interesting ;-)

    con leader - farage

    lab leader - salmond

    lib dem - leader - farron
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Mick_Pork said:

    "UKIP move into the lead for first time in YouGov Euros poll"

    Oh, what a surprise.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

    Alexander Britton ‏@adbritton 26m

    Interesting... "MT @MSmithsonPB: S Times reporting that Newark MP Patrick Mercer is set to quit cash for questions scandal"

    Oh, what a surprise.

    *chortle*


    Douglas Carswell MP ✔ @DouglasCarswell

    See Clegg's tactic of cornering the EU federalist vote worked. 9 percent. #betterOffOut

    'Chortle'


  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2014

    Sunday Times say

    UKIP could profit from further Tory troubles this week because the disgraced MP Patrick Mercer is set to quit and force a by-election over a cash for questions scandal.

    The Commons standards committee will meet on Tuesday to ban him from parliament for six months. The MP for Newark, a winnable seat for UKIP, has told friends that if he is suspended for more than a month he will have to stand down.

    I noted the comment on the previous thread that Cameron will offer anything he can to prevent Mercer from resigning and forcing a by-election.

    As someone who worked with him to get him first elected and used to go drinking with Patrick I have to say I feel it is extremely unlikely there is anything Cameron could offer that would overcome Patrick's deep and abiding hate for the PM. He has never really made any secret of this even before his various public fallings out. I suspect that with his own political career over he would probably take some pleasure in causing a bit more grief for Cameron.

    That said. Mercer had well over 50% of the vote at the last election and no matter how much I might like the idea I really can't see UKIP making that much impact in the town, not least because it has benefited from and accepted Eastern European settlement for decades longer than most of the rest of the country.

    This is all just my personal opinion of course but having lived in Newark for almost 40 years I like to think I know a bit about the constituency.
    Would Mr Mercer resign though? It's a lot of money to give up.

    I think he has a lot of other potential lines of income from his writing and military tours. And with just over a year to go I am not sure it would make that much difference to him.
    The "telling friends that if he is suspended for more than a month he will have to stand down" sounded suspiciously like a crude threat aimed at the commons standards committe, or at least the tory members in it, as I somehow doubt Cammie wants a by-election right now.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2014

    Mick_Pork said:

    "UKIP move into the lead for first time in YouGov Euros poll"

    Oh, what a surprise.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

    Alexander Britton ‏@adbritton 26m

    Interesting... "MT @MSmithsonPB: S Times reporting that Newark MP Patrick Mercer is set to quit cash for questions scandal"

    Oh, what a surprise.

    *chortle*


    Douglas Carswell MP ✔ @DouglasCarswell

    See Clegg's tactic of cornering the EU federalist vote worked. 9 percent. #betterOffOut

    'Chortle'


    You mean calamity Clegg's laughably inept scaremongering mixed with his obvious toxicity.
    Yes, that is indeed surprising how badly that worked out for him and his ostrich faction.

    ;)
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Danny565 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Logically, Farage ought not to be taken seriously due to his background of being a banker. But the public don't care. Reminds one of Tony Blair's ridiculously high popularity ratings in 1997 and 1998 which were running at about 70% IIRC.

    The thing about Farage is, I honestly don't think he's particularly charismatic at all. In any previous era of politics, I don't think he would've made much impact. The thing that's different now is that he stands out against such a historically woefully uninspiring political class. They're all so obsessed in talking in impenetrable political jargon to make themselves sound more intelligent, and scrabbling over the so-called "centre ground" with their silly games and micro-positioning, that all it takes is for someone to speak in something close to plain English (even if in a fairly posh accent like Farage has) and to actually have the balls to stand for something distinctive, and that's all it takes to prosper in the sea of cowardly triangulating beige Professional Politicians.
    By that reasoning the Communist Party of Great Britain ought to be doing well. They have a distinctive message, certainly aren't trying to triangulate for the mythical centre ground and speak, at least in public, in plain English. Perhaps it is what Farage says not just how he says it that is striking a chord.

    I am not sure that UKIP have reached near their peak yet. The more people come out in their favour perhaps the more others will as they gain confidence that it is OK to do so. After all if Fred down the pub supports UKIP then they can't be loonies fruitcakes and closet racists because Fred is none of those things. I don't know, but what seems certain is that exposing UKIPs policy flaws/contradictions, attacking its leader as posh, a racist and/or hypocrite doesn't seem to be making a dent, people aren't listening to those attacks, I wonder why.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Danny565 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Logically, Farage ought not to be taken seriously due to his background of being a banker. But the public don't care. Reminds one of Tony Blair's ridiculously high popularity ratings in 1997 and 1998 which were running at about 70% IIRC.

    The thing about Farage is, I honestly don't think he's particularly charismatic at all. In any previous era of politics, I don't think he would've made much impact. The thing that's different now is that he stands out against such a historically woefully uninspiring political class.

    They're all so obsessed in talking in impenetrable political jargon to make themselves sound more intelligent, and scrabbling over the so-called "centre ground" with their silly games and micro-positioning, that all it takes is for someone to speak in something close to plain English (even if in a fairly posh accent like Farage has) and to actually have the balls to stand for something distinctive, and that's all it takes to prosper in the sea of cowardly triangulating beige Professional Politicians.
    iSam linked to a good piece in the Economist about those Professional Pols the other day:

    "Having grown up in politics, Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne seem incapable of thinking beyond it. Thus the tricksiness of their policies—the token cap on welfare spending, designed to embarrass Labour; the chimeric tax cuts, which leave few people better off. If this approach achieves short-term political hits, it does not tell sceptical voters they are led by high-minded people.

    And this damaging fixation with tradecraft is self-perpetuating—because the Tory leaders, even more than their rivals, promote colleagues with a similar approach. Mr Osborne has built a network of such protégées—he calls them “the club”—including Matthew Hancock, Nicky Morgan and Sajid Javid, Ms Miller’s successor. Derided by jealous colleagues as lackeys, these rising stars are equally defined by their Osborne-ite view of politics as a game clever people play.

    More obviously talented, yet less biddable, Tories—including Rory Stewart, Margot James and Nadhim Zahawi—languish outside the club. That is self-defeating. To enthuse voters, party leaders need to promote engaging representatives. The fact that Britain’s few charismatic politicians—Mr Johnson, Mr Farage and the Scottish nationalist leader Alex Salmond—are outside Parliament is symptomatic of this failure."

    http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21601015-problem-british-mps-not-they-are-too-rowdy-they-are-too-tame-hated

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2014
    "Heard the one about the Englishman who walked into a Glasgow pub and delivered some home truths on independence? Dominic Lawson came out alive - and more certain than ever the Union must survive":

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2613597/DOMINIC-LAWSON-delivered-home-truths-independence-Glasgow-pub.html
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2014
    It sort of makes sense why the Tories in Scotland might be beaten by UKIP in the Euros. Because if you're a Scottish voter desperate to keep the UK together, you might as well go the whole hog and support the purples rather than the wishy-washy Scottish Conservatives.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    RodCrosby said:

    Sunday Times say

    UKIP could profit from further Tory troubles this week because the disgraced MP Patrick Mercer is set to quit and force a by-election over a cash for questions scandal.

    The Commons standards committee will meet on Tuesday to ban him from parliament for six months. The MP for Newark, a winnable seat for UKIP, has told friends that if he is suspended for more than a month he will have to stand down.

    I noted the comment on the previous thread that Cameron will offer anything he can to prevent Mercer from resigning and forcing a by-election.

    As someone who worked with him to get him first elected and used to go drinking with Patrick I have to say I feel it is extremely unlikely there is anything Cameron could offer that would overcome Patrick's deep and abiding hate for the PM. He has never really made any secret of this even before his various public fallings out. I suspect that with his own political career over he would probably take some pleasure in causing a bit more grief for Cameron.

    That said. Mercer had well over 50% of the vote at the last election and no matter how much I might like the idea I really can't see UKIP making that much impact in the town, not least because it has benefited from and accepted Eastern European settlement for decades longer than most of the rest of the country.

    This is all just my personal opinion of course but having lived in Newark for almost 40 years I like to think I know a bit about the constituency.
    Would Mr Mercer resign though? It's a lot of money to give up.

    Would he get paid during his "suspension"?
    Good question.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    AndyJS said:

    "Heard the one about the Englishman who walked into a Glasgow pub and delivered some home truths on independence? Dominic Lawson came out alive - and more certain than ever the Union must survive":

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2613597/DOMINIC-LAWSON-delivered-home-truths-independence-Glasgow-pub.html

    LOL

    Clickbaiters and their anecdotes. At least there wasn't an imaginary Swiss/American in this one.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    AndyJS said:

    It sort of makes sense why the Tories in Scotland might be beaten by UKIP in the Euros.

    To annoy the scottish tory surgers for one thing. ;)



  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    EU elections = the Paralympics
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The Tories on 19% in the Euros might mean they only get around a third of the vote in some of their "safest" areas like Tunbridge Wells for example.

    In 2009 they polled 39.6% there compared to 27.7% nationally, so 19% would equate to about 31%.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    I know Patrick Mercer quite well (and like him despite the controversies) - he used to be my cousin's adjutant so we got to know each other quite quickly after he was elected, though not as well as Richard downthread. I also think he will regard entreaties from Mr Cameron with cheerful disdain. He's never been terribly interested in party politics - he basically is an army man who strayed into it, rather than an ambitious Tory careerist.

    The comment that Newark was Labour in 1997 on the last thread is true but misleading - boundary changes have made it very much more Tory. Any seat is losable when the electorate is in the mood, but my guess is that the Tories could hang on, with Labour and UKIP both within sight.

    I was nearly selected for it in 1995 - I won every branch nomination bar one, but unlike Broxtowe there was a group of members who understandably took a dim view of someone applying from Switzerland and and a last-minute push got Fiona Jones selected instead. I was able to use it second place for credibility in the Broxtowe selection that came up next door a few weeks later. As it turned out, I'd been very lucky in more ways than one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Danny565 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Logically, Farage ought not to be taken seriously due to his background of being a banker. But the public don't care. Reminds one of Tony Blair's ridiculously high popularity ratings in 1997 and 1998 which were running at about 70% IIRC.

    The thing about Farage is, I honestly don't think he's particularly charismatic at all. In any previous era of politics, I don't think he would've made much impact. The thing that's different now is that he stands out against such a historically woefully uninspiring political class. They're all so obsessed in talking in impenetrable political jargon to make themselves sound more intelligent, and scrabbling over the so-called "centre ground" with their silly games and micro-positioning, that all it takes is for someone to speak in something close to plain English (even if in a fairly posh accent like Farage has) and to actually have the balls to stand for something distinctive, and that's all it takes to prosper in the sea of cowardly triangulating beige Professional Politicians.
    By that reasoning the Communist Party of Great Britain ought to be doing well. They have a distinctive message, certainly aren't trying to triangulate for the mythical centre ground and speak, at least in public, in plain English. Perhaps it is what Farage says not just how he says it that is striking a chord.
    UKIP''s messaging has struck a chord with many people, but is enhanced by his personal popularity through being obviously not a bland party automaton. I think many people found Farage quite engaging before UKIP started surging, they liked his style, and now a lot also like his politics.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Feeding these numbers into Electoral Calculus gives:

    Con 81, Lab 308, LD 16, UKIP 215.

    That'd be an entertaining parliament. :-)
  • cameodelcameodel Posts: 3
    Which just goes to show,....to the Times, to the Mail, to the Guardian, To the Independent, to the Standard, you are on the wrong side of the argument, get with the British public or get left behind!
  • Eh_ehm_a_ehEh_ehm_a_eh Posts: 552
    AndyJS said:

    "Heard the one about the Englishman who walked into a Glasgow pub and delivered some home truths on independence? Dominic Lawson came out alive - and more certain than ever the Union must survive":

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2613597/DOMINIC-LAWSON-delivered-home-truths-independence-Glasgow-pub.html

    A champers and wine bar, and a pub frequented by luvvies from the west end.
    Yup typical Glasgow drinking establishments. He sure took his life in his hands.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited April 2014
    The Times also says Mr Sykes, and his cheque book, is going to support UKIP's general election campaign too.

    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/political-parties-campaigning-and-donations/political-parties-annual-accounts/2012#UKIP
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    This looks incredible, wish I was there:

    twitter.com/thomasknox/status/459986083171024896
  • Eh_ehm_a_ehEh_ehm_a_eh Posts: 552
    Hide, bruiser Baron Reid of Cardowan enters the fray. Wonder if he hopes to retain the U.K. without a shot being fired.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/reid-accuses-snp-of-cruel-deceit-over-referendum-1-3390145
  • The Mail on Sunday has some revelations about the particulars of PC Rowland's claim for defamation against Andrew Mitchell MP. Does anyone really think that Mitchell will be given an official position while this action, and the action set down in his name, are still to be heard and determined? It seems unlikely.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Whatever we think, we can't complain that politics is boring this year, can we?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    AndyJS said:
    He was one of the great contributors to the steady demise of christianity in this country.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2014
    There was disagreement earlier about whether Cameron would resign if Scotland votes Yes. But if the Tories get 19% in the Euro election and Scotland votes Yes, you'd think the combination would make his position untenable. 20 weeks to go.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,031
    Any indyref polls this weekend?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    Whatever happened to the idea of the police having to take regular fitness tests?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614038/Plebgate-PC-wants-200-000-MPs-lies-Sensational-testimony-No-10-officer-revealed-court-papers.html

    I don't fancy the p##bs chance of passing one, and he was part of the "elite" Diplomatic Protection Group. What is he elite in, getting the doughnuts in?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    AndyJS said:

    There was disagreement earlier about whether Cameron would resign if Scotland votes Yes. But if the Tories get 19% in the Euro election and Scotland votes Yes, you'd think the combination would make his position untenable. 20 weeks to go.

    Louse Mensch said MPs don't much care about the EU Parliament elections.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10769926/Google-hangout-Why-is-Ukip-still-stealing-Conservative-voters.html

    But if UKIP can go into the general election campaign looking like winners, they might be able to hold their EU Parliament supporters. Then maybe the voters can sack Mr Cameron instead.

    The Election Data blogger said Witney voters are UKIP types.

    http://election-data.blogspot.hu/2014/03/which-constituencies-best-suit-ukip-in.html
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    If Mercer resigns they would surely try to have by-election on same day as Euros - but would they be allowed to have it that quickly?
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    AndyJS said:
    He should know. He was a post-Christian Archbishop...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2014
    MikeL said:

    If Mercer resigns they would surely try to have by-election on same day as Euros - but would they be allowed to have it that quickly?

    The campaign must now last at least 25 days (not including weekends and bank holidays). It used to be 17 days:

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/6/section/14/enacted

    I think Wythenshawe was held under the previous rules.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    MikeL said:

    If Mercer resigns they would surely try to have by-election on same day as Euros - but would they be allowed to have it that quickly?

    I think that would be the very last day that the Tories would want to choose.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Just to confirm, does anyone know whether the commencement order has been made for that new piece of legislation? It got royal assent in 2013 but obviously wasn't in force in January for the Wythenshawe by-election.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2014
    The answer is yes: it came into force on 6th April.

    http://legislation.data.gov.uk/uksi/2014/414/made/data.htm?wrap=true
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2014
    Newark would be a good bet for UKIP because they would only need about a third of the vote to win:

    UKIP 33% (+29)
    Con 32% (-22)
    Lab 28% (+6)
    LD 7% (-13)

    The Lab and LD changes here are in line with the opinion polls.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    He's big enough to take a hail of bullets for someone.

    Whatever happened to the idea of the police having to take regular fitness tests?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614038/Plebgate-PC-wants-200-000-MPs-lies-Sensational-testimony-No-10-officer-revealed-court-papers.html

    I don't fancy the p##bs chance of passing one, and he was part of the "elite" Diplomatic Protection Group. What is he elite in, getting the doughnuts in?

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    The article read like he had written most of it while travelling to Scotland.
    Mick_Pork said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Heard the one about the Englishman who walked into a Glasgow pub and delivered some home truths on independence? Dominic Lawson came out alive - and more certain than ever the Union must survive":

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2613597/DOMINIC-LAWSON-delivered-home-truths-independence-Glasgow-pub.html

    LOL

    Clickbaiters and their anecdotes. At least there wasn't an imaginary Swiss/American in this one.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    That looks like a bare CON+Ukip majority if Scotland is independent and Sinn Fein continue abstaining.

    Feeding these numbers into Electoral Calculus gives:

    Con 81, Lab 308, LD 16, UKIP 215.

    That'd be an entertaining parliament. :-)

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited April 2014
    First casualty of the Scottish indy referendum
    CBI Scotland chief to take early retirement
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    AndyJS said:

    Newark would be a good bet for UKIP because they would only need about a third of the vote to win:

    Like Eastleigh.

    Yet...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    A UKIP gain in Newark might be a tad embarrassing for Ken Clarke since the seat is next door to his Rushcliffe constituency, and he represented the town of Bingham for 40 years before it was moved into Newark in 2010.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    RodCrosby said:

    AndyJS said:

    Newark would be a good bet for UKIP because they would only need about a third of the vote to win:

    Like Eastleigh.

    Yet...
    You think they would just fall short again?
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    AndyJS said:

    Newark would be a good bet for UKIP because they would only need about a third of the vote to win:

    Like Eastleigh.

    Yet...
    You think they would just fall short again?
    The UKIP performance in FPTP elections is insufficient, it seems...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    AndyJS said:

    A UKIP gain in Newark might be a tad embarrassing for Ken Clarke since the seat is next door to his Rushcliffe constituency, and he represented the town of Bingham for 40 years before it was moved into Newark in 2010.

    I don't think Ken Clarke does "embarrassing"!
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    UKIP seem to have snaffled about 1/3 of the Con vote share at Eastleigh. 50% in Newark and they automatically win, with realistic Lab and Lib defections they need maybe 40%? They shouldn't have problems with adverse tactical squeeze since Lib and Lab are so far behind, but against that everything else was in their favour in Eastleigh: Good local presence, good UKIP candidate, train-crash Con candidate.
  • Regarding YouGovs "regional" areas. Does anyone know which counties each of them covers? Doesn't really help when, for instance the Eastern Region could be part "Rest of South" and part "Midlands/Wales"
This discussion has been closed.