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A clear benefit of Tariff Liberation (sic) day. Trump becomes very unpopular – politicalbetting.com

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  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,715
    Dura_Ace said:

    boulay said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Earlier I was waiting to cross the road where I got hit by a car

    A Porsche came past doing about 50, in a 30 limit

    Number plate was: 280DA

    It couldn’t be… could it?

    280DA is a fucking Cayman, so obviously not.
    .

    I completely forgot about the Cayman being a thing. I don’t think I’ve seen one around for ages.
    I've never had one, apart from flips, and don't care for them. They don't feel as stiff as a 911 (lower second polar moment of inertia) and they don't grip up as well. My 986 Boxster flexed so much going through Mastersbocht at Zandvoort knocking on 200km/h that the windscreen came out.

    I am quite surprised Porsche persist with them, now that they are an SUV brand of VAG that does 911s as a sideline.
    Eh?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,835

    The idea that bridges should not be targeted in war is absolute batshit crazy nonsense.

    People spouting that shite should read up on history. We deliberately targeted bridges in WWII and we were right to do so, it helped lead to the collapse of the Nazis as they were no longer able to operate.

    Read up on the Transport Plan then bleat on about war crimes. Utter codswallop. Bridges are a legitimate military target.

    It is not a war , just abig bully not getting his way
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,835

    Trump: "[The US] will have no wind farms"

    Very sensible.
    With another heatwave coming next week, I don’t think anyone’s buying your argument that climate change is a fraud,
    we have rain, very pleasant
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,835

    Caught the start of Newsnight ,and Nick sodding Clegg is lecturing others about sanctimony.

    He's been popping up a bit recently.

    Tell me he's not planning a return to frontline politics some way or other?
    His coalition was one if the best periods of government in recent decades. Maybe I am in a minority of one, but I think he put the country ahead of his party and himself and should be given credit for that. I would give him a knighthood.
    It's a view. It's also a view that his refusing to discuss our membership of the EU during the Coalition resulted in Brexit.

    If Clegg and Cameron had gone into the rose garden early in the Colition and called a Referendum - recommendeding staying in - it would have been won c.60:40.

    Thank you, Nick Clegg.
    He was a useless tosser and no doubt still is.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,545
    malcolmg said:

    Caught the start of Newsnight ,and Nick sodding Clegg is lecturing others about sanctimony.

    He's been popping up a bit recently.

    Tell me he's not planning a return to frontline politics some way or other?
    His coalition was one if the best periods of government in recent decades. Maybe I am in a minority of one, but I think he put the country ahead of his party and himself and should be given credit for that. I would give him a knighthood.
    It's a view. It's also a view that his refusing to discuss our membership of the EU during the Coalition resulted in Brexit.

    If Clegg and Cameron had gone into the rose garden early in the Colition and called a Referendum - recommendeding staying in - it would have been won c.60:40.

    Thank you, Nick Clegg.
    He was a useless tosser and no doubt still is.
    I sure he speaks well of you, too.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,835

    The idea that bridges should not be targeted in war is absolute batshit crazy nonsense.

    People spouting that shite should read up on history. We deliberately targeted bridges in WWII and we were right to do so, it helped lead to the collapse of the Nazis as they were no longer able to operate.

    Read up on the Transport Plan then bleat on about war crimes. Utter codswallop. Bridges are a legitimate military target.

    we know who is batshit crazy
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,233
    Dura_Ace said:

    boulay said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Earlier I was waiting to cross the road where I got hit by a car

    A Porsche came past doing about 50, in a 30 limit

    Number plate was: 280DA

    It couldn’t be… could it?

    280DA is a fucking Cayman, so obviously not.
    .

    I completely forgot about the Cayman being a thing. I don’t think I’ve seen one around for ages.
    I've never had one, apart from flips, and don't care for them. They don't feel as stiff as a 911 (lower second polar moment of inertia) and they don't grip up as well. My 986 Boxster flexed so much going through Mastersbocht at Zandvoort knocking on 200km/h that the windscreen came out.

    I am quite surprised Porsche persist with them, now that they are an SUV brand of VAG that does 911s as a sideline.
    I still have a soft spot for my old boxster as I was young and it was fun to drive and in a way I preferred it to my 911 for inexplicable reasons, most likely emotional rather than the actual driving experience.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,437

    Caught the start of Newsnight ,and Nick sodding Clegg is lecturing others about sanctimony.

    He's been popping up a bit recently.

    Tell me he's not planning a return to frontline politics some way or other?
    His coalition was one if the best periods of government in recent decades. Maybe I am in a minority of one, but I think he put the country ahead of his party and himself and should be given credit for that. I would give him a knighthood.
    I think the Lib Dems took one key decision that was highly beneficial to the country but very bad for them as a party. They had the option of taking over one or two ministries completley or to integrated themselves into the whole government like regular ministers. Had they done the former they could have pushed through some pet projects and washed their hands of anything else the government did. It would have been smart politics but destabilising for the country. By choosing the latter they made the coalition a success but became tarnished with every decision the Conservative majority made.

    I think Clegg and the Lib Dems deserve more credit than they get for that.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,835
    Cicero said:

    malcolmg said:

    Caught the start of Newsnight ,and Nick sodding Clegg is lecturing others about sanctimony.

    He's been popping up a bit recently.

    Tell me he's not planning a return to frontline politics some way or other?
    His coalition was one if the best periods of government in recent decades. Maybe I am in a minority of one, but I think he put the country ahead of his party and himself and should be given credit for that. I would give him a knighthood.
    It's a view. It's also a view that his refusing to discuss our membership of the EU during the Coalition resulted in Brexit.

    If Clegg and Cameron had gone into the rose garden early in the Colition and called a Referendum - recommendeding staying in - it would have been won c.60:40.

    Thank you, Nick Clegg.
    He was a useless tosser and no doubt still is.
    I sure he speaks well of you, too.
    as you would expect
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,822
    boulay said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    boulay said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Earlier I was waiting to cross the road where I got hit by a car

    A Porsche came past doing about 50, in a 30 limit

    Number plate was: 280DA

    It couldn’t be… could it?

    280DA is a fucking Cayman, so obviously not.
    .

    I completely forgot about the Cayman being a thing. I don’t think I’ve seen one around for ages.
    I've never had one, apart from flips, and don't care for them. They don't feel as stiff as a 911 (lower second polar moment of inertia) and they don't grip up as well. My 986 Boxster flexed so much going through Mastersbocht at Zandvoort knocking on 200km/h that the windscreen came out.

    I am quite surprised Porsche persist with them, now that they are an SUV brand of VAG that does 911s as a sideline.
    I still have a soft spot for my old boxster as I was young and it was fun to drive and in a way I preferred it to my 911 for inexplicable reasons, most likely emotional rather than the actual driving experience.
    In retrospect they probably should have done it with a transverse IL4 robbed from VW instead of the flat 6. That would have been easier to package and made the car considerably cheaper. It's easy to be an arch product strategist with the benefit of 20 years of hindsight.

    I've just bought a 997.2 Targa 4S (PRG/Tan) at auction. When I got it home I found shitloads of pills in the frunk. Google reveals them to be herpes medication. Nice.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,175
    Stereodog said:

    Caught the start of Newsnight ,and Nick sodding Clegg is lecturing others about sanctimony.

    He's been popping up a bit recently.

    Tell me he's not planning a return to frontline politics some way or other?
    His coalition was one if the best periods of government in recent decades. Maybe I am in a minority of one, but I think he put the country ahead of his party and himself and should be given credit for that. I would give him a knighthood.
    I think the Lib Dems took one key decision that was highly beneficial to the country but very bad for them as a party. They had the option of taking over one or two ministries completley or to integrated themselves into the whole government like regular ministers. Had they done the former they could have pushed through some pet projects and washed their hands of anything else the government did. It would have been smart politics but destabilising for the country. By choosing the latter they made the coalition a success but became tarnished with every decision the Conservative majority made.

    I think Clegg and the Lib Dems deserve more credit than they get for that.
    Don't expect any thanks from the Tories whom they put into government, and who then targeted them for destruction at the following election.

    Arguably a benefit of PR is that it would discourage quite such naked party political interest, as you're always likely to need someone's support at a subsequent election.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,794

    Andrew Neil:

    Donald Trump is said to be 'in decline' both physically and mentally, and he is reportedly so frustrated with the war in Iran that he has entered 'revenge mode'

    The war isn’t just consuming Trump’s presidency. It’s taking its toll on the President himself. During a recent meeting in the Oval Office, he ranted against Iran’s leaders, calling them ‘scumbags’ and ‘lunatics’ in an expletive-ridden diatribe. There is growing concern for his physical health and mental stability.

    ‘Donald is deteriorating before our very eyes,’ I was told in Washington this week by a close confidant who sees him regularly. ‘His physical and mental health is in decline. Those around him don’t know what to do about it. It can only get worse. He’s 80 – and it’s showing.’

    Is an expletive laden rant about Iran's leaders evidence of physical and mental decline? I'd be somewhat surprised if Trump didn't indulge in such a rant fairly regularly given the circumstances, regardless of age or state of health.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,175
    Zelensky would sit with Nosferatu for an interview if it helped Ukraine. It's his biggest quality and why he's still president.
    https://x.com/justincbzz/status/2080686880635420980

    Another way in which he's the anti-Putin, who's leading his country to destruction in order to cling to power.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,822
    edited 8:15AM

    Andrew Neil:

    Donald Trump is said to be 'in decline' both physically and mentally, and he is reportedly so frustrated with the war in Iran that he has entered 'revenge mode'

    The war isn’t just consuming Trump’s presidency. It’s taking its toll on the President himself. During a recent meeting in the Oval Office, he ranted against Iran’s leaders, calling them ‘scumbags’ and ‘lunatics’ in an expletive-ridden diatribe. There is growing concern for his physical health and mental stability.

    ‘Donald is deteriorating before our very eyes,’ I was told in Washington this week by a close confidant who sees him regularly. ‘His physical and mental health is in decline. Those around him don’t know what to do about it. It can only get worse. He’s 80 – and it’s showing.’

    Is an expletive laden rant about Iran's leaders evidence of physical and mental decline?
    No, but getting bamboozled into doing the SPO by Netanyahu in the first place is.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,789

    Caught the start of Newsnight ,and Nick sodding Clegg is lecturing others about sanctimony.

    He's been popping up a bit recently.

    Tell me he's not planning a return to frontline politics some way or other?
    His coalition was one if the best periods of government in recent decades. Maybe I am in a minority of one, but I think he put the country ahead of his party and himself and should be given credit for that. I would give him a knighthood.
    It's a view. It's also a view that his refusing to discuss our membership of the EU during the Coalition resulted in Brexit.

    If Clegg and Cameron had gone into the rose garden early in the Colition and called a Referendum - recommendeding staying in - it would have been won c.60:40.

    Thank you, Nick Clegg.
    Alexa, explain "gaslighting" to me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,175
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andrew Neil:

    Donald Trump is said to be 'in decline' both physically and mentally, and he is reportedly so frustrated with the war in Iran that he has entered 'revenge mode'

    The war isn’t just consuming Trump’s presidency. It’s taking its toll on the President himself. During a recent meeting in the Oval Office, he ranted against Iran’s leaders, calling them ‘scumbags’ and ‘lunatics’ in an expletive-ridden diatribe. There is growing concern for his physical health and mental stability.

    ‘Donald is deteriorating before our very eyes,’ I was told in Washington this week by a close confidant who sees him regularly. ‘His physical and mental health is in decline. Those around him don’t know what to do about it. It can only get worse. He’s 80 – and it’s showing.’

    Is an expletive laden rant about Iran's leaders evidence of physical and mental decline?
    No, but getting bamboozled into doing the SPO by Netanyahu in the first place is.
    He can't stick a joke these days either.
    He's always been crass, but he used to be able to land a punchline.

    "The other day a senator I knew got a text from his wife. She said, 'When you get home, I want to have you immediately come up the stairs and make love to me.' And he said, 'I can't do both.' You know? Haha. In other words, haha, you can't go up the stairs and make love. Does anybody get that?…In other words, he can't go up the stairs and make love. Too old. You know?…Does anybody understand this stuff?"
    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/2080842799050547275
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,611
    boulay said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    boulay said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Earlier I was waiting to cross the road where I got hit by a car

    A Porsche came past doing about 50, in a 30 limit

    Number plate was: 280DA

    It couldn’t be… could it?

    280DA is a fucking Cayman, so obviously not.
    .

    I completely forgot about the Cayman being a thing. I don’t think I’ve seen one around for ages.
    I've never had one, apart from flips, and don't care for them. They don't feel as stiff as a 911 (lower second polar moment of inertia) and they don't grip up as well. My 986 Boxster flexed so much going through Mastersbocht at Zandvoort knocking on 200km/h that the windscreen came out.

    I am quite surprised Porsche persist with them, now that they are an SUV brand of VAG that does 911s as a sideline.
    I still have a soft spot for my old boxster as I was young and it was fun to drive and in a way I preferred it to my 911 for inexplicable reasons, most likely emotional rather than the actual driving experience.
    I don't know why anybody would opt for anything other than a red Golf GTI auto with a 'sports' mode that you can click into and make the engine rev louder.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,889
    Morning all :)

    Two unrelated thoughts on this sunny Saturday morning - does CALANDAGAN win the King George this afternoon? I backed BENVENUTO CELLINI each way at 11/2 as I thought it was a silly price.

    Gove was or could have been an excellent Justice Secretary and his ideas were certainly worth supporting.

    We keep rehashing (or is it re-writing?) the history of the Coalition Government. From an LD perspective, we got a lot wrong - the position we found ourselves in after the 2010 GE left us with only two options - work with the Conservatives and establish a stable majority Government based on agreement on a number of issues (the philosophical convergence between the Orange Bookers and Cameron's "liberal conservatism") or walk away, be tainted as not being serious and watch a Conservative minority struggle on until Cameron called a second GE and won a thumping majority.

    In the end, we were damned whatever we did - we lost a significant group of our supporters and whatever influence we had in Government was wiped away in the years after 2015.

    As both Davey and perhaps Badenoch also look at the future, they should be thinking the same thing. IF you throw in your lot with one side or the other, how do you deal with the loss of support? I can no more see a Badenoch-led Conservative Party supporting a minority Labour administration than I can a Davey-led Liberal Democrats supporting a minority Reform Government so in effect it's the same two options -make the choice everyone expects you to make or sit it out and enjoy the futility of opposition for as much as five years.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,961

    NEW THREAD

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,144

    Caught the start of Newsnight ,and Nick sodding Clegg is lecturing others about sanctimony.

    He's been popping up a bit recently.

    Tell me he's not planning a return to frontline politics some way or other?
    His coalition was one if the best periods of government in recent decades. Maybe I am in a minority of one, but I think he put the country ahead of his party and himself and should be given credit for that. I would give him a knighthood.
    It's a view. It's also a view that his refusing to discuss our membership of the EU during the Coalition resulted in Brexit.

    If Clegg and Cameron had gone into the rose garden early in the Colition and called a Referendum - recommendeding staying in - it would have been won c.60:40.

    Thank you, Nick Clegg.
    Alexa, explain "gaslighting" to me.
    To be fair, Clegg had called for an In/Out referendum on the EU. It was his 'reasoning' for abstaining on the Lisbon referendum when his party's manifesto had committed them to supporting one.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,894

    Andrew Neil:

    Donald Trump is said to be 'in decline' both physically and mentally, and he is reportedly so frustrated with the war in Iran that he has entered 'revenge mode'

    The war isn’t just consuming Trump’s presidency. It’s taking its toll on the President himself. During a recent meeting in the Oval Office, he ranted against Iran’s leaders, calling them ‘scumbags’ and ‘lunatics’ in an expletive-ridden diatribe. There is growing concern for his physical health and mental stability.

    ‘Donald is deteriorating before our very eyes,’ I was told in Washington this week by a close confidant who sees him regularly. ‘His physical and mental health is in decline. Those around him don’t know what to do about it. It can only get worse. He’s 80 – and it’s showing.’

    Andrew Neil age 77 and a quarter says what
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,920

    The idea that bridges should not be targeted in war is absolute batshit crazy nonsense.

    People spouting that shite should read up on history. We deliberately targeted bridges in WWII and we were right to do so, it helped lead to the collapse of the Nazis as they were no longer able to operate.

    Read up on the Transport Plan then bleat on about war crimes. Utter codswallop. Bridges are a legitimate military target.

    Isn't the problem fairly clear? It's a war crime to attack a 'civilian bridge' but hard to imagine a bridge important enough to bomb that serves no possible military purpose.

    I wonder which major bridges in Russian hands we would regard as off limits for the Ukrainians?

  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,864

    Caught the start of Newsnight ,and Nick sodding Clegg is lecturing others about sanctimony.

    He's been popping up a bit recently.

    Tell me he's not planning a return to frontline politics some way or other?
    His coalition was one if the best periods of government in recent decades. Maybe I am in a minority of one, but I think he put the country ahead of his party and himself and should be given credit for that. I would give him a knighthood.
    It's a view. It's also a view that his refusing to discuss our membership of the EU during the Coalition resulted in Brexit.

    If Clegg and Cameron had gone into the rose garden early in the Colition and called a Referendum - recommendeding staying in - it would have been won c.60:40.

    Thank you, Nick Clegg.
    Alexa, explain "gaslighting" to me.
    1) Surely the term gaslighting is simply trying to convince someone that they are mad?

    2) Do you not remember Ed Davey's staged walkout when Lib Dem votes could have forced a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty - nominally Lib Dem policy at the time - on the contrived grounds that what the Lib Dems actually wanted was a referendum on EU membership? Strange that two years later, offered the opportunity, it turned out that they didn't actually want a vote at all.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,487

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Of the 6 polls published since Burnham became leader, only one, the first YougGov, showed Reform's share down, and that was by one point. That wasn't what I was expecting.

    For now the relevant trajectory is not Reform's, already well down, but the others. So long as Reform is at mid 20s, an election result depends on the willingness and ability of the other 70+% of voters to secure a non Reform government.

    I hope Reform collapse, but they are, IMO, already going to lose without a further one.

    Remember that polls lag events by 1-2 weeks.

    Lots of people are just discovering Burnham is PM. And, in fact, just discovering Burnham exists.
    Also- it's the summer holidays.

    Also also- Labour to right wing flips by voters are pretty rare, mostly happened some time ago, and are the hardest voters for the red team to win back. The low-hanging fruit are Lab 2024 voters who are now saying Green, Lib Dem or meh.

    Only one of the reasons that Blue Labour is a silly idea, and I have my doubts about the "save our working class pubs" thing. John Prescott's remarks on class are much nearer the mark.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,835
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andrew Neil:

    Donald Trump is said to be 'in decline' both physically and mentally, and he is reportedly so frustrated with the war in Iran that he has entered 'revenge mode'

    The war isn’t just consuming Trump’s presidency. It’s taking its toll on the President himself. During a recent meeting in the Oval Office, he ranted against Iran’s leaders, calling them ‘scumbags’ and ‘lunatics’ in an expletive-ridden diatribe. There is growing concern for his physical health and mental stability.

    ‘Donald is deteriorating before our very eyes,’ I was told in Washington this week by a close confidant who sees him regularly. ‘His physical and mental health is in decline. Those around him don’t know what to do about it. It can only get worse. He’s 80 – and it’s showing.’

    Is an expletive laden rant about Iran's leaders evidence of physical and mental decline?
    No, but getting bamboozled into doing the SPO by Netanyahu in the first place is.
    He is just really stupid but lucked out that his father was rich
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