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We live in an era of massive viral misinformation – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,220
edited 3:09PM in General
We live in an era of massive viral misinformation – politicalbetting.com

Misinformation about Andy Burnham's wife is now the most viral political story in the UK. How does a rumour that started in a local Facebook group in January 2022 become national misinformation?Here's the anatomy of an online rumour.

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Comments

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,970
    Second!
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 747
    Do I jinx it by saying England have been quite good so far today?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,251
    No doubt also aided by the X algorithm.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,251
    Mild irony that the era of viral misinformation really took off with misinformation about a virus.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,251
    Sweeney74 said:

    Do I jinx it by saying England have been quite good so far today?

    No, they haven't.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,970
    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,157
    edited 3:19PM
    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    It hits the poor the hardest so much to my chagrin it won't become the only tax as the poor moan when your make them poorer.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,970

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    It hits the poor the hardest so much to my chagrin it won't become the only tax as the poor moan when your make them poorer.
    But they don't. The price in the shops is just the price. And the poor will pay almost anything for their training shoes. Carrots - nah wildly expensive!
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,925
    Off topic, but important for an understanding of US politics:

    Some facts that should be known to anyone who lives in New York, but may not be known to those distant from the city and state: Both have had serious scandals in recent years, connected to those "maintream" Democrats.
    Examples: Former Governor Andrew Cuomo was forced to resign after accusations of sexual harrassment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Cuomo_sexual_harassment_allegations

    Former New York Mayor Eric Adams was indicted for corruption -- but got bailed out by Donald Trump: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Adams

    Current New York Governor Kathy Hochul is in serious trouble from a number of scandals, as you can learn by doing this search: "new york state governor scandal".
    And so on.

    Will current New York Mayor Mamdani be part of a future scandal list? I wouldn't bet against that possibility.

    And I think it nearly certain that some of his appointees will be.

    The recent shift in New York politics should not be interpreted entirely in ideological terms.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,662
    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,240
    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,970
    edited 3:30PM

    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.

    I've never used pretty much any of them. However X does have a degree to which interesting news arrives there first.

    (And so have an account, but don't post. Alas if you want Omnium wisdom it's PB. Poor PB!)
  • eekeek Posts: 34,240

    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.

    There are a lot of f***wits about.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,040

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    A possible Labour "it's different" line on a GE could be that Truss trashed any semblance of the manifesto and thus, by Sunak it stood trashed.

    Where as the deliverables on the 2024 manifesto will remain the framework for the Burnham government.

    It might lead to some questions on tax and spend but those should be reasonably answerable.

    Look where that got Liz Truss.
    Truss' problem was she cut tax but not spending too, Burnham can increase spending but it would require him to increase taxes too
    I hope he’s heard of the Laffer curve.

    I suspect, as there seems to be an active campaign in the left wing media to get him the job, Jedward Miliband will be Chancellor which is a frightening thought.
    Where's the peak of the Laffer curve then Taz?

    A: No one has a scooby-do.
    Actually I think I read an article by Paul Krugman that said two or three academic papers in the US pointed to 70% for Income Tax in America!

    Not in favour of that, I think as an absolute top there is a psychological barrier at 50%.

    Now given people on the Right tend to raise the Laffer curve to justify tax cuts, it’s worth noting that it only works at a certain level.

    Worth a discussion on where that exactly is for various taxes in the UK as something better than “Cuts Good/Rises Bad!”

    Peter.
    Many people in the UK face real tax rates well in excess of 70%. Some 100%

    Is that before or after their peak of the Laffer Curve?

    Arguing a percentage point either way is neither here nor there. It is the cliff edges in the tax system that whack rates up to around 100% that distort behavior.

    Exactly as forecast by theory.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,832
    edited 3:38PM
    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    I always thought there was something a bit bogus about Kate Forbes

    Kate Forbes has shared a stage with hard-right politicians and influencers at an 'anti-woke' conference in London.

    The former SNP deputy first minister spoke at the event co-founded by Jordan Peterson and attended by far-right European parties


    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3mp6uyimib62k

    That's quite Parish Pump Scotland from the National.

    There's a list too long to repost, starting with Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch and Boris Johnson.

    It is Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC); I'd probably term them culture war and USA religious right, rather than fundamentally "hard-right". "Anti-woke" with a focus on "personal morality" probably gets the style, though with peeps from the Trump regime and AFD etc will be present.

    Ben Houchen, Esther McVey and Sarah Pochin are also there.

    More detail: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/alliance-for-responsible-citizenship-arc-conference-farage-london-olympia-b1286811.html

    The key organiser is aiui Baroness Stroud, who is a mover and shaker everywhere on the Right - not dissimilar to Danny Kruger in views imo.
    The issue I have with Kate Forbes. She has always had this line that she has the simple sincere belief of people from the Highlands, I can do no other.

    I'm doubtful that she does have a simple sincere belief but (a) I'm a tolerant and understanding person and (b) it's none of my business what she does believe. I would give her the benefit of any irrelevant doubt if only Forbes was equally tolerant and understanding of other people's different but sincere beliefs.

    Then she goes and signs up with a bunch of nativist ideologues, many of them actual frauds, who wouldn't recognise a Judeo-Christian value if it bit them in the ass.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,597

    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.

    How else do you find out the closing date for entries to the village show?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,186
    Surely this is not fake news? It is fawlty news!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,970
    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
    Sure, but for a moment or two I'd imagined just one tax. An easy to collect tax.

    Our laws should be much simpler, and that applies to everything. If you could have one tax law then it'd be fantastic. I guess Moses worked out a similar thing.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,279
    BMG, with Burnham as PM:
    Lab 27
    Reform 26
    Con 19
    LD 11
    Green 11

    With no leader mentioned:
    Reform 27
    Lab 23
    Con 20
    Green 13
    LD 11

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/labour-lead-reform-with-burnham-as-pm-new-poll-shows-4500466
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,284
    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
    Companies and self-employed with turnover from 10k - 90k collecting VAT?
    How do you think HMRC would cope with that?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,130
    Cleese has become a worse version of the thing he used to lampoon. Or consider his participation in that Life of Brian debate. If only someone could say "Maaaate" to him and be heard.

    There's also the eternal question of why "I want to drive my Brum Brum" works so well as a gateway into conspiratorial nonsense.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,085

    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.

    I do use Facebook to keep in loose contact with old school and university people, my closer ones are on WhatsApp. I get a load of geeky archaeology and architecture and design posts on my feed, some quite funny political things - have been seeing videos of senate committees where a senator called Sheldon Washington rips apart Trump appointees which is always amusing.

    I see the odd bit of local news which can be useful.

    Maybe this confirms your theory!
  • eekeek Posts: 34,240
    edited 3:45PM
    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
    Companies and self-employed with turnover from 10k - 90k collecting VAT?
    How do you think HMRC would cope with that?
    Easily - a lot of it's automated.

    Plus there is currently a consultation on making direct debit the only way to pay PAYE and VAT.

    I've been automating processes now for 30+ years, it's way easier than it used to be even 2 years ago.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,284

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    It hits the poor the hardest so much to my chagrin it won't become the only tax as the poor moan when your make them poorer.
    Nothing like as loudly as pensioners and the wealthy, and unlike the wealthy they don't own media outlets to amplify their moaning.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,534
    edited 3:51PM
    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
    Companies and self-employed with turnover from 10k - 90k collecting VAT?
    How do you think HMRC would cope with that?
    VAT liability for traders started off at a much lower point than it is now. TBH I don't really understand why, apart from inflation, it was raised.
    When I ran a small business having to do quarterly books for VAT ensured that my books were up to date. And ensured a living for those like my daughter who ran small accounting business had a steady stream of clients.
    Given the software that's available today I don't understand the problem.

    Unless, of course, the trader is on the fiddle!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,620
    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
    Companies and self-employed with turnover from 10k - 90k collecting VAT?
    How do you think HMRC would cope with that?
    It really isn't difficult. I speak as someone who did it for many years. There may be some exceptions, but generally it is a very easy tax to record and pay over to HMRC. In my entire time of doing it I never once had an audit. It also removes the unfair competition between Vat registered and non Vat registered businesses.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,882
    Muggy and thunder crackling across the sky in North Durham.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,284
    eek said:

    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
    Companies and self-employed with turnover from 10k - 90k collecting VAT?
    How do you think HMRC would cope with that?
    Easily - a lot of it's automated.

    Plus there is currently a consultation on making direct debit the only way to pay PAYE and VAT.

    I've been automating processes now for 30+ years, it's way easier than it used to be even 2 years ago.
    It would still more than double the number of VAT registered companies and self-employed and the £10k to £90k turnover band is likely to be far worse with their admin.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,882
    LOL. Clown show

    ‘ Greens forced to return £1,500 donation from their own leader Zack Polanski... because he wasn't on the electoral register’

    https://x.com/dailymail/status/2070519681086054795?s=61
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,557
    boulay said:

    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.

    I do use Facebook to keep in loose contact with old school and university people, my closer ones are on WhatsApp. I get a load of geeky archaeology and architecture and design posts on my feed, some quite funny political things - have been seeing videos of senate committees where a senator called Sheldon Washington rips apart Trump appointees which is always amusing.

    I see the odd bit of local news which can be useful.

    Maybe this confirms your theory!
    I finally deleted FB permanently in Feb. Back in 2008/9 it was great, I reconnected with several old friends who I’m now closer too than I was at school, but based on my age, sex, and locality I got so much right wing crap dressed up as “nostalgia” (eg “Canterbury - Remembering how it used to be” was a group very me keen on me joining) I didn’t see any reason to stay. None of my friends seemed to post save for the ones who had gone down some very weird rabbit holes - mostly right wing, a couple left.

    I keep LinkedIn, deeply reluctantly, for professional purposes, and I reactivate IG when I go to the States to show immigration I have some online presence but, otherwise, social media can kiss my fat arse.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,882
    boulay said:

    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.

    I do use Facebook to keep in loose contact with old school and university people, my closer ones are on WhatsApp. I get a load of geeky archaeology and architecture and design posts on my feed, some quite funny political things - have been seeing videos of senate committees where a senator called Sheldon Washington rips apart Trump appointees which is always amusing.

    I see the odd bit of local news which can be useful.

    Maybe this confirms your theory!
    I find it less and less usable

    A few years ago,it was great for keeping up with old friends, seeing what’s on locally and getting an idea of live events and local news. It was invaluable

    Now it’s virtually unusable. My feed is mainly ads and suggesting groups to join or follow. Very little is friends or local events now.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,534
    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
    Companies and self-employed with turnover from 10k - 90k collecting VAT?
    How do you think HMRC would cope with that?
    Easily - a lot of it's automated.

    Plus there is currently a consultation on making direct debit the only way to pay PAYE and VAT.

    I've been automating processes now for 30+ years, it's way easier than it used to be even 2 years ago.
    It would still more than double the number of VAT registered companies and self-employed and the £10k to £90k turnover band is likely to be far worse with their admin.
    My daughter's first employer, an accountant whose clients were largely small traders ...... including, for example , such people as self-employed taxi drivers ..... used to joke about clients coming with shoe-boxes fill of paperwork and having to sort it out. But he did, and in later years she did.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,882
    The airport attacker who beat the shit out of that WPC (hope using that term doesn’t trigger Eabhal) has got three and a half years.

    Seems light for brutally attacking an officer of the law.

    If only he’d misgendered her on Twitter it would be a ten stretch in the Scrubs.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,240
    edited 3:59PM
    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
    Companies and self-employed with turnover from 10k - 90k collecting VAT?
    How do you think HMRC would cope with that?
    Easily - a lot of it's automated.

    Plus there is currently a consultation on making direct debit the only way to pay PAYE and VAT.

    I've been automating processes now for 30+ years, it's way easier than it used to be even 2 years ago.
    It would still more than double the number of VAT registered companies and self-employed and the £10k to £90k turnover band is likely to be far worse with their admin.
    So we put them all on turnover based schemes - there we've reduced the admin to I'm a cafe / builder / xyz so pay x% of turnover...

    The change would plenty of leadtime and training so I would be looking at doing it after the next election to start in 2031 for those with a turnover over £50,000 and then reduce it in 2032.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,240
    edited 4:01PM
    Taz said:

    Muggy and thunder crackling across the sky in North Durham.

    And South Durham.

    Central Durham (well my daughter) also has a power cut - some people won't be having Fish tonight from Bells
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,557
    Taz said:

    The airport attacker who beat the shit out of that WPC (hope using that term doesn’t trigger Eabhal) has got three and a half years.

    Seems light for brutally attacking an officer of the law.

    If only he’d misgendered her on Twitter it would be a ten stretch in the Scrubs.

    I missed that one. Do you have a citation for the conviction / 10 year sentence from HMCTS or the MSM? Would be interesting to read.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,882
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Muggy and thunder crackling across the sky in North Durham.

    And South Durham.

    Central Durham (well my daughter) also has a power cut - some people won't be having Fish tonight from Bells
    She could always pop up to the one at the back of the Arnison Centre. Bells is very good.

    Don’t know you in Darlo but also lightning now.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,671
    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    I always thought there was something a bit bogus about Kate Forbes

    Kate Forbes has shared a stage with hard-right politicians and influencers at an 'anti-woke' conference in London.

    The former SNP deputy first minister spoke at the event co-founded by Jordan Peterson and attended by far-right European parties


    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3mp6uyimib62k

    That's quite Parish Pump Scotland from the National.

    There's a list too long to repost, starting with Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch and Boris Johnson.

    It is Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC); I'd probably term them culture war and USA religious right, rather than fundamentally "hard-right". "Anti-woke" with a focus on "personal morality" probably gets the style, though with peeps from the Trump regime and AFD etc will be present.

    Ben Houchen, Esther McVey and Sarah Pochin are also there.

    More detail: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/alliance-for-responsible-citizenship-arc-conference-farage-london-olympia-b1286811.html

    The key organiser is aiui Baroness Stroud, who is a mover and shaker everywhere on the Right - not dissimilar to Danny Kruger in views imo.
    The issue I have with Kate Forbes. She has always had this line that she has the simple sincere belief of people from the Highlands, I can do no other.

    I'm doubtful that she does have a simple sincere belief but (a) I'm a tolerant and understanding person and (b) it's none of my business what she does believe. I would give her the benefit of any irrelevant doubt if only Forbes was equally tolerant and understanding of other people's different but sincere beliefs.

    Then she goes and signs up with a bunch of nativist ideologues, many of them actual frauds, who wouldn't recognise a Judeo-Christian value if it bit them in the ass.
    Must say I have not ever heard her say a bad thing about anyone. She is entitled to her views and seems to keep them to herself.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,882
    DougSeal said:

    Taz said:

    The airport attacker who beat the shit out of that WPC (hope using that term doesn’t trigger Eabhal) has got three and a half years.

    Seems light for brutally attacking an officer of the law.

    If only he’d misgendered her on Twitter it would be a ten stretch in the Scrubs.

    I missed that one. Do you have a citation for the conviction / 10 year sentence from HMCTS or the MSM? Would be interesting to read.
    it was posted as a joke not a serious critique 😂😂😂😂

    You’re very literal 😂
  • eekeek Posts: 34,240
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Muggy and thunder crackling across the sky in North Durham.

    And South Durham.

    Central Durham (well my daughter) also has a power cut - some people won't be having Fish tonight from Bells
    She could always pop up to the one at the back of the Arnison Centre. Bells is very good.

    Don’t know you in Darlo but also lightning now.
    been and gone for the moment suspect it will be back soon though. It's also got warmer..
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,085
    edited 4:12PM
    DougSeal said:

    boulay said:

    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.

    I do use Facebook to keep in loose contact with old school and university people, my closer ones are on WhatsApp. I get a load of geeky archaeology and architecture and design posts on my feed, some quite funny political things - have been seeing videos of senate committees where a senator called Sheldon Washington rips apart Trump appointees which is always amusing.

    I see the odd bit of local news which can be useful.

    Maybe this confirms your theory!
    I finally deleted FB permanently in Feb. Back in 2008/9 it was great, I reconnected with several old friends who I’m now closer too than I was at school, but based on my age, sex, and locality I got so much right wing crap dressed up as “nostalgia” (eg “Canterbury - Remembering how it used to be” was a group very me keen on me joining) I didn’t see any reason to stay. None of my friends seemed to post save for the ones who had gone down some very weird rabbit holes - mostly right wing, a couple left.

    I keep LinkedIn, deeply reluctantly, for professional purposes, and I reactivate IG when I go to the States to show immigration I have some online presence but, otherwise, social media can kiss my fat arse.
    Luckily I don’t need to use LinkedIn as all my work is by personal introduction. I had it back in about 2006 but I didn’t find it overly useful and just had randoms contacting me wanting investment so binned it. Don’t use X or Instagram and have a fake tinder profile so if I see a woman when out I thought seemed nice on there then I can chat her up knowing she is single because I’m getting lazy as I age.

    Occasionally on fb you get really odd groups and posts but if you scroll straight past they stop appearing, sometimes you can be unlucky if you are scrolling and have to stop to sneeze and fb thinks you were interested as you paused but again, block the posts or just scroll in future and they stop coming.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,840
    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    I always thought there was something a bit bogus about Kate Forbes

    Kate Forbes has shared a stage with hard-right politicians and influencers at an 'anti-woke' conference in London.

    The former SNP deputy first minister spoke at the event co-founded by Jordan Peterson and attended by far-right European parties


    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3mp6uyimib62k

    That's quite Parish Pump Scotland from the National.

    There's a list too long to repost, starting with Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch and Boris Johnson.

    It is Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC); I'd probably term them culture war and USA religious right, rather than fundamentally "hard-right". "Anti-woke" with a focus on "personal morality" probably gets the style, though with peeps from the Trump regime and AFD etc will be present.

    Ben Houchen, Esther McVey and Sarah Pochin are also there.

    More detail: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/alliance-for-responsible-citizenship-arc-conference-farage-london-olympia-b1286811.html

    The key organiser is aiui Baroness Stroud, who is a mover and shaker everywhere on the Right - not dissimilar to Danny Kruger in views imo.
    The issue I have with Kate Forbes. She has always had this line that she has the simple sincere belief of people from the Highlands, I can do no other.

    I'm doubtful that she does have a simple sincere belief but (a) I'm a tolerant and understanding person and (b) it's none of my business what she does believe. I would give her the benefit of any irrelevant doubt if only Forbes was equally tolerant and understanding of other people's different but sincere beliefs.

    Then she goes and signs up with a bunch of nativist ideologues, many of them actual frauds, who wouldn't recognise a Judeo-Christian value if it bit them in the ass.
    Must say I have not ever heard her say a bad thing about anyone. She is entitled to her views and seems to keep them to herself.
    She's genuinely popular in the Highlands. But is certainly out-of-kilter with the ruling SNP worldview, as she's a social conservative and has an interest and expertise in economics - not something you could accuse Nicola et al of.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,284
    eek said:

    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
    Companies and self-employed with turnover from 10k - 90k collecting VAT?
    How do you think HMRC would cope with that?
    Easily - a lot of it's automated.

    Plus there is currently a consultation on making direct debit the only way to pay PAYE and VAT.

    I've been automating processes now for 30+ years, it's way easier than it used to be even 2 years ago.
    It would still more than double the number of VAT registered companies and self-employed and the £10k to £90k turnover band is likely to be far worse with their admin.
    So we put them all on turnover based schemes - there we've reduced the admin to I'm a cafe / builder / xyz so pay x% of turnover...

    The change would plenty of leadtime and training so I would be looking at doing it after the next election to start in 2031 for those with a turnover over £50,000 and then reduce it in 2032.
    I was assuming it'd be flat rate scheme, I'd just anticipate a massive increase in missed return dates and non-payment.
    Resolution Foundation estimates gross increase in tax revenue of £2bn for a reduction to £30k
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,557
    Taz said:

    DougSeal said:

    Taz said:

    The airport attacker who beat the shit out of that WPC (hope using that term doesn’t trigger Eabhal) has got three and a half years.

    Seems light for brutally attacking an officer of the law.

    If only he’d misgendered her on Twitter it would be a ten stretch in the Scrubs.

    I missed that one. Do you have a citation for the conviction / 10 year sentence from HMCTS or the MSM? Would be interesting to read.
    it was posted as a joke not a serious critique 😂😂😂😂

    You’re very literal 😂
    I see
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,057
    edited 4:18PM

    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.

    I don't know anyone who uses Facebook and I'm the generation who were first permitted to use it at school/university before it opened up to letting adults outside of education on.

    Normal people my age who still use social media use Instagram. No one in their 30s or younger is active on Facebook, except maybe for their marketplace. It is deeply uncool and aimed at people in their 50s+ who were latecomers to it but never moved on.

    In any case, I don't think it really matters what type of algorithmic social media you use. It's like debating the pros and cons of heroin, cocaine or meth. All of them are addictive garbage that are best avoided.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,557
    boulay said:

    DougSeal said:

    boulay said:

    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.

    I do use Facebook to keep in loose contact with old school and university people, my closer ones are on WhatsApp. I get a load of geeky archaeology and architecture and design posts on my feed, some quite funny political things - have been seeing videos of senate committees where a senator called Sheldon Washington rips apart Trump appointees which is always amusing.

    I see the odd bit of local news which can be useful.

    Maybe this confirms your theory!
    I finally deleted FB permanently in Feb. Back in 2008/9 it was great, I reconnected with several old friends who I’m now closer too than I was at school, but based on my age, sex, and locality I got so much right wing crap dressed up as “nostalgia” (eg “Canterbury - Remembering how it used to be” was a group very me keen on me joining) I didn’t see any reason to stay. None of my friends seemed to post save for the ones who had gone down some very weird rabbit holes - mostly right wing, a couple left.

    I keep LinkedIn, deeply reluctantly, for professional purposes, and I reactivate IG when I go to the States to show immigration I have some online presence but, otherwise, social media can kiss my fat arse.
    Luckily I don’t need to use LinkedIn as all my work is by personal introduction. I had it back in about 2006 but I didn’t find it overly useful and just had randoms contacting me wanting investment so binned it. Don’t use X or Instagram and have a fake tinder profile so if I see a woman when out I thought seemed nice on there then I can chat her up knowing she is single because I’m getting lazy as I age.

    Occasionally on fb you get really odd groups and posts but if you scroll straight past they stop appearing, sometimes you can be unlucky if you are scrolling and have to stop to sneeze and fb thinks you were interested as you paused but again, block the posts or just scroll in future and they stop coming.
    Most of my work comes from referrals too but these days they like to check you exist on LinkedIn after the recommendation. I don’t actively prospect on it. The algorithm is an absolute nightmare. The subreddit “LinkedInLunatics” is value
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,840

    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    I always thought there was something a bit bogus about Kate Forbes

    Kate Forbes has shared a stage with hard-right politicians and influencers at an 'anti-woke' conference in London.

    The former SNP deputy first minister spoke at the event co-founded by Jordan Peterson and attended by far-right European parties


    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3mp6uyimib62k

    That's quite Parish Pump Scotland from the National.

    There's a list too long to repost, starting with Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch and Boris Johnson.

    It is Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC); I'd probably term them culture war and USA religious right, rather than fundamentally "hard-right". "Anti-woke" with a focus on "personal morality" probably gets the style, though with peeps from the Trump regime and AFD etc will be present.

    Ben Houchen, Esther McVey and Sarah Pochin are also there.

    More detail: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/alliance-for-responsible-citizenship-arc-conference-farage-london-olympia-b1286811.html

    The key organiser is aiui Baroness Stroud, who is a mover and shaker everywhere on the Right - not dissimilar to Danny Kruger in views imo.
    The issue I have with Kate Forbes. She has always had this line that she has the simple sincere belief of people from the Highlands, I can do no other.

    I'm doubtful that she does have a simple sincere belief but (a) I'm a tolerant and understanding person and (b) it's none of my business what she does believe. I would give her the benefit of any irrelevant doubt if only Forbes was equally tolerant and understanding of other people's different but sincere beliefs.

    Then she goes and signs up with a bunch of nativist ideologues, many of them actual frauds, who wouldn't recognise a Judeo-Christian value if it bit them in the ass.
    Must say I have not ever heard her say a bad thing about anyone. She is entitled to her views and seems to keep them to herself.
    She's genuinely popular in the Highlands. But is certainly out-of-kilter with the ruling SNP worldview, as she's a social conservative and has an interest and expertise in economics - not something you could accuse Nicola et al of.
    Further to this....

    https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,kate-forbes-christian-viewpoints-being-squeezed-out-of-uk-politics

    On assisted dying, she said: “One prominent campaigner railed against undeclared personal religious beliefs… in the debate and dismissed arguments from those who were guided by faith. But nobody demands that of anybody subscribing to the new faith, the new ideologies and the new philosophies of our day.

    “Their moral framework, their basis of decision-making, is accepted without question, as though anybody who is free of the burden of an inner conscience grounded in historical truths is unbiased and unprejudiced.

    “Those who hold to those truths – those truths that have birthed such great freedoms and liberties across the ages – are excluded by default.”
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,750
    Afternoon all :)

    Still sweltering here in rural Derbyshire - I'm reminded of the horrible heat of 2022 which made me decide to quit working and embark on a spell of masterly inactivity at which I seem to be most adept.

    On topic, there are plenty of people here it seems who, seemingly unable to put forward an argument themselves, reach for Twitter, Bluesky or wherever to make the point for them.

    We also have the emerging "I'm seeing on Twitter" or "There are rumours on social media" which further spreads the ordure of misinformation and disinformation. It doesn't surprise me Gaunt is involved - he's no friend of Labour - but there are plenty of others who peddle misinformation or disinformation and if there are legal consequences, the political damage has been done.

    I suspect history will show the one thing linking the downfalls of Johnson, Truss and Starmer will be the undermining by social media. It's a form of corrosive, unaccountable opposition which damages political discourse and debate.

    It's not that misinformation or disinformation represents the dissemination of actual falsehoods - that would be wrong. What we see instead is parts of the truth, spun to create a narrative which is often damaging rather than the whole truth.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,086
    edited 4:20PM

    Surely this is not fake news? It is fawlty news!

    It's not surprising Cleese was so good as the deeply reactionary owner of a small hotel in Torquay.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,776
    The Prime Minister resigned after this video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T59a3maXZ0

    YouTuber Chris Spargo interviews the Prime Minister about crisps etc.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,057
    Off topic, but so far this year we have had the two hottest May days ever and the three hottest June days ever.

    Here's hoping we don't get similar for July and August.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,040
    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
    Companies and self-employed with turnover from 10k - 90k collecting VAT?
    How do you think HMRC would cope with that?
    Very easily, its all digital.

    Its how the firms would cope with it that is another question.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,882
    Lock him up !!

    ‘ BREAKING: Donald Trump's former national security adviser John Bolton has pleaded guilty to mishandling classified documents.’

    https://x.com/skynews/status/2070517397316894992?s=61
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,151

    The Prime Minister resigned after this video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T59a3maXZ0

    YouTuber Chris Spargo interviews the Prime Minister about crisps etc.

    He's great.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,647
    Heritage Railways tend to post their gen on Facebook, but fortunately I can access it without needing an account.

    As for LinkedIn, god no.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,151
    Taz said:

    Lock him up !!

    ‘ BREAKING: Donald Trump's former national security adviser John Bolton has pleaded guilty to mishandling classified documents.’

    https://x.com/skynews/status/2070517397316894992?s=61

    Lots of former officials seem to have done so, including Trump, Biden, and Pence (though Trump was the only one to dig in and make worse), so probably many others have.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,882
    What a cracking story. Van driver gives lift to armed copper chasing a wrong un

    https://x.com/kent_police/status/2070190719336165751?s=61
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,040
    Taz said:

    Lock him up !!

    ‘ BREAKING: Donald Trump's former national security adviser John Bolton has pleaded guilty to mishandling classified documents.’

    https://x.com/skynews/status/2070517397316894992?s=61

    A critic of Trump being prosecuted?

    Hard to tell in today's America if that is as he is guilty, or if it is a malicious prosecution.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,120

    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    I always thought there was something a bit bogus about Kate Forbes

    Kate Forbes has shared a stage with hard-right politicians and influencers at an 'anti-woke' conference in London.

    The former SNP deputy first minister spoke at the event co-founded by Jordan Peterson and attended by far-right European parties


    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3mp6uyimib62k

    That's quite Parish Pump Scotland from the National.

    There's a list too long to repost, starting with Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch and Boris Johnson.

    It is Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC); I'd probably term them culture war and USA religious right, rather than fundamentally "hard-right". "Anti-woke" with a focus on "personal morality" probably gets the style, though with peeps from the Trump regime and AFD etc will be present.

    Ben Houchen, Esther McVey and Sarah Pochin are also there.

    More detail: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/alliance-for-responsible-citizenship-arc-conference-farage-london-olympia-b1286811.html

    The key organiser is aiui Baroness Stroud, who is a mover and shaker everywhere on the Right - not dissimilar to Danny Kruger in views imo.
    The issue I have with Kate Forbes. She has always had this line that she has the simple sincere belief of people from the Highlands, I can do no other.

    I'm doubtful that she does have a simple sincere belief but (a) I'm a tolerant and understanding person and (b) it's none of my business what she does believe. I would give her the benefit of any irrelevant doubt if only Forbes was equally tolerant and understanding of other people's different but sincere beliefs.

    Then she goes and signs up with a bunch of nativist ideologues, many of them actual frauds, who wouldn't recognise a Judeo-Christian value if it bit them in the ass.
    Must say I have not ever heard her say a bad thing about anyone. She is entitled to her views and seems to keep them to herself.
    She's genuinely popular in the Highlands. But is certainly out-of-kilter with the ruling SNP worldview, as she's a social conservative and has an interest and expertise in economics - not something you could accuse Nicola et al of.
    Further to this....

    https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,kate-forbes-christian-viewpoints-being-squeezed-out-of-uk-politics

    On assisted dying, she said: “One prominent campaigner railed against undeclared personal religious beliefs… in the debate and dismissed arguments from those who were guided by faith. But nobody demands that of anybody subscribing to the new faith, the new ideologies and the new philosophies of our day.

    “Their moral framework, their basis of decision-making, is accepted without question, as though anybody who is free of the burden of an inner conscience grounded in historical truths is unbiased and unprejudiced.

    “Those who hold to those truths – those truths that have birthed such great freedoms and liberties across the ages – are excluded by default.”
    This her latest content.

    “The West will 'pay a heavy price' if people betray Judeo-Christian heritage”

    Frankly that Judeo-Christian heritage pish can take a flying jump.

    https://x.com/mariemacklin/status/2070391519509455255?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,086

    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    I always thought there was something a bit bogus about Kate Forbes

    Kate Forbes has shared a stage with hard-right politicians and influencers at an 'anti-woke' conference in London.

    The former SNP deputy first minister spoke at the event co-founded by Jordan Peterson and attended by far-right European parties


    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3mp6uyimib62k

    That's quite Parish Pump Scotland from the National.

    There's a list too long to repost, starting with Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch and Boris Johnson.

    It is Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC); I'd probably term them culture war and USA religious right, rather than fundamentally "hard-right". "Anti-woke" with a focus on "personal morality" probably gets the style, though with peeps from the Trump regime and AFD etc will be present.

    Ben Houchen, Esther McVey and Sarah Pochin are also there.

    More detail: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/alliance-for-responsible-citizenship-arc-conference-farage-london-olympia-b1286811.html

    The key organiser is aiui Baroness Stroud, who is a mover and shaker everywhere on the Right - not dissimilar to Danny Kruger in views imo.
    The issue I have with Kate Forbes. She has always had this line that she has the simple sincere belief of people from the Highlands, I can do no other.

    I'm doubtful that she does have a simple sincere belief but (a) I'm a tolerant and understanding person and (b) it's none of my business what she does believe. I would give her the benefit of any irrelevant doubt if only Forbes was equally tolerant and understanding of other people's different but sincere beliefs.

    Then she goes and signs up with a bunch of nativist ideologues, many of them actual frauds, who wouldn't recognise a Judeo-Christian value if it bit them in the ass.
    Must say I have not ever heard her say a bad thing about anyone. She is entitled to her views and seems to keep them to herself.
    She's genuinely popular in the Highlands. But is certainly out-of-kilter with the ruling SNP worldview, as she's a social conservative and has an interest and expertise in economics - not something you could accuse Nicola et al of.
    Further to this....

    https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,kate-forbes-christian-viewpoints-being-squeezed-out-of-uk-politics

    On assisted dying, she said: “One prominent campaigner railed against undeclared personal religious beliefs… in the debate and dismissed arguments from those who were guided by faith. But nobody demands that of anybody subscribing to the new faith, the new ideologies and the new philosophies of our day.

    “Their moral framework, their basis of decision-making, is accepted without question, as though anybody who is free of the burden of an inner conscience grounded in historical truths is unbiased and unprejudiced.

    “Those who hold to those truths – those truths that have birthed such great freedoms and liberties across the ages – are excluded by default.”
    But religious faith is not "grounded in historical truths".
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,882

    Taz said:

    Lock him up !!

    ‘ BREAKING: Donald Trump's former national security adviser John Bolton has pleaded guilty to mishandling classified documents.’

    https://x.com/skynews/status/2070517397316894992?s=61

    A critic of Trump being prosecuted?

    Hard to tell in today's America if that is as he is guilty, or if it is a malicious prosecution.
    He pleaded guilty.

    In this case any reason to doubt that ?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,293

    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.

    Well, fuckwits get the vote too. Or look at the people here who fell for this story.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,233
    Ratters said:

    Off topic, but so far this year we have had the two hottest May days ever and the three hottest June days ever.

    Here's hoping we don't get similar for July and August.

    There's a great little tool for looking at climate change around the world here:

    https://showyourstripes.info/c/europe/unitedkingdom/all/

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,970
    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    I always thought there was something a bit bogus about Kate Forbes

    Kate Forbes has shared a stage with hard-right politicians and influencers at an 'anti-woke' conference in London.

    The former SNP deputy first minister spoke at the event co-founded by Jordan Peterson and attended by far-right European parties


    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3mp6uyimib62k

    That's quite Parish Pump Scotland from the National.

    There's a list too long to repost, starting with Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch and Boris Johnson.

    It is Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC); I'd probably term them culture war and USA religious right, rather than fundamentally "hard-right". "Anti-woke" with a focus on "personal morality" probably gets the style, though with peeps from the Trump regime and AFD etc will be present.

    Ben Houchen, Esther McVey and Sarah Pochin are also there.

    More detail: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/alliance-for-responsible-citizenship-arc-conference-farage-london-olympia-b1286811.html

    The key organiser is aiui Baroness Stroud, who is a mover and shaker everywhere on the Right - not dissimilar to Danny Kruger in views imo.
    The issue I have with Kate Forbes. She has always had this line that she has the simple sincere belief of people from the Highlands, I can do no other.

    I'm doubtful that she does have a simple sincere belief but (a) I'm a tolerant and understanding person and (b) it's none of my business what she does believe. I would give her the benefit of any irrelevant doubt if only Forbes was equally tolerant and understanding of other people's different but sincere beliefs.

    Then she goes and signs up with a bunch of nativist ideologues, many of them actual frauds, who wouldn't recognise a Judeo-Christian value if it bit them in the ass.
    Must say I have not ever heard her say a bad thing about anyone. She is entitled to her views and seems to keep them to herself.
    She's genuinely popular in the Highlands. But is certainly out-of-kilter with the ruling SNP worldview, as she's a social conservative and has an interest and expertise in economics - not something you could accuse Nicola et al of.
    Further to this....

    https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,kate-forbes-christian-viewpoints-being-squeezed-out-of-uk-politics

    On assisted dying, she said: “One prominent campaigner railed against undeclared personal religious beliefs… in the debate and dismissed arguments from those who were guided by faith. But nobody demands that of anybody subscribing to the new faith, the new ideologies and the new philosophies of our day.

    “Their moral framework, their basis of decision-making, is accepted without question, as though anybody who is free of the burden of an inner conscience grounded in historical truths is unbiased and unprejudiced.

    “Those who hold to those truths – those truths that have birthed such great freedoms and liberties across the ages – are excluded by default.”
    But religious faith is not "grounded in historical truths".
    Oh but it is! All sorts of the underpinnings are grounded in historical truths. The thing is that the groundings are incontrovertible.

    Nobody argues that killing people is bad, nobody argues that you shouldn't rob people. Etc, etc.

    And the greatest base of all of the religions is the trumpeting of the unarguable.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,792

    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.

    Well, fuckwits get the vote too. Or look at the people here who fell for this story.
    "I want to believe" should be the motto of this Century.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,251
    edited 4:38PM
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Lock him up !!

    ‘ BREAKING: Donald Trump's former national security adviser John Bolton has pleaded guilty to mishandling classified documents.’

    https://x.com/skynews/status/2070517397316894992?s=61

    A critic of Trump being prosecuted?

    Hard to tell in today's America if that is as he is guilty, or if it is a malicious prosecution.
    He pleaded guilty.

    In this case any reason to doubt that ?
    Plea bargain:
    ...pleaded guilty Friday to improperly retaining sensitive materials in “diary-like” entries after leaving the White House.
    Bolton, 77, admitted to one count of retaining national defense information during a federal court hearing in Greenbelt, Md.
    “I am, your honor,” he told the judge when asked if he was guilty. “I’m sorry for it.”..


    If the full Jack Smith indictment of Trump ever sees the light of day, you can compare that with Trump's far more serious violation of the statute.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1kgzelxjywo

    You never know...
    https://www.bostonherald.com/2026/06/06/trumps-inner-circle-subpoenaed-by-bbc-in-us-libel-lawsuit/
    ..Kevin O’Brien, a former federal prosecutor and defense attorney who isn’t involved in the case, said the BBC strategy appears to be a “smart tactic” to refocus the dispute back onto Trump’s conduct and the events of Jan. 6.

    “Of course, enforcing 47 subpoenas, with all those depositions and motions to compel, is an expensive proposition, and time-consuming too,” he said.

    The subpoenas reveal that the BBC is building its defense in part around an argument that Trump’s conduct that day wasn’t far off from what the misleading edit suggested and therefore was not “materially false.”

    That’s one of several arguments the BBC is making for why the case should be tossed. The BBC also pointed to the findings for Special Counsel Jack Smith, who investigated Trump’s alleged election interference and his role in the riot. The news outlet cited a portion of Smith’s report that said his office “determined that there were reasonable arguments to be made that Mr. Trump’s Ellipse Speech incited the violence at the Capitol on January 6.”

    Smith ultimately charged Trump with multiple crimes surrounding his alleged effort to overturn the result of the election. The Justice Department dropped the case after Trump won reelection in 2024, citing a standing policy against prosecuting a sitting president...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,151
    Taz said:

    What a cracking story. Van driver gives lift to armed copper chasing a wrong un

    https://x.com/kent_police/status/2070190719336165751?s=61

    Hell of a story to tell down the pub.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,534

    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    I always thought there was something a bit bogus about Kate Forbes

    Kate Forbes has shared a stage with hard-right politicians and influencers at an 'anti-woke' conference in London.

    The former SNP deputy first minister spoke at the event co-founded by Jordan Peterson and attended by far-right European parties


    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3mp6uyimib62k

    That's quite Parish Pump Scotland from the National.

    There's a list too long to repost, starting with Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch and Boris Johnson.

    It is Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC); I'd probably term them culture war and USA religious right, rather than fundamentally "hard-right". "Anti-woke" with a focus on "personal morality" probably gets the style, though with peeps from the Trump regime and AFD etc will be present.

    Ben Houchen, Esther McVey and Sarah Pochin are also there.

    More detail: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/alliance-for-responsible-citizenship-arc-conference-farage-london-olympia-b1286811.html

    The key organiser is aiui Baroness Stroud, who is a mover and shaker everywhere on the Right - not dissimilar to Danny Kruger in views imo.
    The issue I have with Kate Forbes. She has always had this line that she has the simple sincere belief of people from the Highlands, I can do no other.

    I'm doubtful that she does have a simple sincere belief but (a) I'm a tolerant and understanding person and (b) it's none of my business what she does believe. I would give her the benefit of any irrelevant doubt if only Forbes was equally tolerant and understanding of other people's different but sincere beliefs.

    Then she goes and signs up with a bunch of nativist ideologues, many of them actual frauds, who wouldn't recognise a Judeo-Christian value if it bit them in the ass.
    Must say I have not ever heard her say a bad thing about anyone. She is entitled to her views and seems to keep them to herself.
    She's genuinely popular in the Highlands. But is certainly out-of-kilter with the ruling SNP worldview, as she's a social conservative and has an interest and expertise in economics - not something you could accuse Nicola et al of.
    Further to this....

    https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,kate-forbes-christian-viewpoints-being-squeezed-out-of-uk-politics

    On assisted dying, she said: “One prominent campaigner railed against undeclared personal religious beliefs… in the debate and dismissed arguments from those who were guided by faith. But nobody demands that of anybody subscribing to the new faith, the new ideologies and the new philosophies of our day.

    “Their moral framework, their basis of decision-making, is accepted without question, as though anybody who is free of the burden of an inner conscience grounded in historical truths is unbiased and unprejudiced.

    “Those who hold to those truths – those truths that have birthed such great freedoms and liberties across the ages – are excluded by default.”
    This her latest content.

    “The West will 'pay a heavy price' if people betray Judeo-Christian heritage”

    Frankly that Judeo-Christian heritage pish can take a flying jump.

    https://x.com/mariemacklin/status/2070391519509455255?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
    Yet most of us here were brought up with that heritage. That was the what motivated school assemblies etc. In my time anyway, it was a rare family which actively rejected that heritage (I did know one).

    Yes, things have changed now; for example my great-grandson has had no naming ceremony.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,040
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Lock him up !!

    ‘ BREAKING: Donald Trump's former national security adviser John Bolton has pleaded guilty to mishandling classified documents.’

    https://x.com/skynews/status/2070517397316894992?s=61

    A critic of Trump being prosecuted?

    Hard to tell in today's America if that is as he is guilty, or if it is a malicious prosecution.
    He pleaded guilty.

    In this case any reason to doubt that ?
    Yes.

    Read about plea bargaining in America.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,966
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    I always thought there was something a bit bogus about Kate Forbes

    Kate Forbes has shared a stage with hard-right politicians and influencers at an 'anti-woke' conference in London.

    The former SNP deputy first minister spoke at the event co-founded by Jordan Peterson and attended by far-right European parties


    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3mp6uyimib62k

    That's quite Parish Pump Scotland from the National.

    There's a list too long to repost, starting with Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch and Boris Johnson.

    It is Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC); I'd probably term them culture war and USA religious right, rather than fundamentally "hard-right". "Anti-woke" with a focus on "personal morality" probably gets the style, though with peeps from the Trump regime and AFD etc will be present.

    Ben Houchen, Esther McVey and Sarah Pochin are also there.

    More detail: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/alliance-for-responsible-citizenship-arc-conference-farage-london-olympia-b1286811.html

    The key organiser is aiui Baroness Stroud, who is a mover and shaker everywhere on the Right - not dissimilar to Danny Kruger in views imo.
    The issue I have with Kate Forbes. She has always had this line that she has the simple sincere belief of people from the Highlands, I can do no other.

    I'm doubtful that she does have a simple sincere belief but (a) I'm a tolerant and understanding person and (b) it's none of my business what she does believe. I would give her the benefit of any irrelevant doubt if only Forbes was equally tolerant and understanding of other people's different but sincere beliefs.

    Then she goes and signs up with a bunch of nativist ideologues, many of them actual frauds, who wouldn't recognise a Judeo-Christian value if it bit them in the ass.
    Must say I have not ever heard her say a bad thing about anyone. She is entitled to her views and seems to keep them to herself.
    She's genuinely popular in the Highlands. But is certainly out-of-kilter with the ruling SNP worldview, as she's a social conservative and has an interest and expertise in economics - not something you could accuse Nicola et al of.
    Further to this....

    https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,kate-forbes-christian-viewpoints-being-squeezed-out-of-uk-politics

    On assisted dying, she said: “One prominent campaigner railed against undeclared personal religious beliefs… in the debate and dismissed arguments from those who were guided by faith. But nobody demands that of anybody subscribing to the new faith, the new ideologies and the new philosophies of our day.

    “Their moral framework, their basis of decision-making, is accepted without question, as though anybody who is free of the burden of an inner conscience grounded in historical truths is unbiased and unprejudiced.

    “Those who hold to those truths – those truths that have birthed such great freedoms and liberties across the ages – are excluded by default.”
    But religious faith is not "grounded in historical truths".
    Oh but it is! All sorts of the underpinnings are grounded in historical truths. The thing is that the groundings are incontrovertible.

    Nobody argues that killing people is bad, nobody argues that you shouldn't rob people. Etc, etc.

    And the greatest base of all of the religions is the trumpeting of the unarguable.
    "Nobody argues that killing people is bad, nobody argues that you shouldn't rob people"

    #AntiPeaceProcess
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,151
    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    I always thought there was something a bit bogus about Kate Forbes

    Kate Forbes has shared a stage with hard-right politicians and influencers at an 'anti-woke' conference in London.

    The former SNP deputy first minister spoke at the event co-founded by Jordan Peterson and attended by far-right European parties


    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3mp6uyimib62k

    That's quite Parish Pump Scotland from the National.

    There's a list too long to repost, starting with Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch and Boris Johnson.

    It is Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC); I'd probably term them culture war and USA religious right, rather than fundamentally "hard-right". "Anti-woke" with a focus on "personal morality" probably gets the style, though with peeps from the Trump regime and AFD etc will be present.

    Ben Houchen, Esther McVey and Sarah Pochin are also there.

    More detail: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/alliance-for-responsible-citizenship-arc-conference-farage-london-olympia-b1286811.html

    The key organiser is aiui Baroness Stroud, who is a mover and shaker everywhere on the Right - not dissimilar to Danny Kruger in views imo.
    The issue I have with Kate Forbes. She has always had this line that she has the simple sincere belief of people from the Highlands, I can do no other.

    I'm doubtful that she does have a simple sincere belief but (a) I'm a tolerant and understanding person and (b) it's none of my business what she does believe. I would give her the benefit of any irrelevant doubt if only Forbes was equally tolerant and understanding of other people's different but sincere beliefs.

    Then she goes and signs up with a bunch of nativist ideologues, many of them actual frauds, who wouldn't recognise a Judeo-Christian value if it bit them in the ass.
    Must say I have not ever heard her say a bad thing about anyone. She is entitled to her views and seems to keep them to herself.
    She's genuinely popular in the Highlands. But is certainly out-of-kilter with the ruling SNP worldview, as she's a social conservative and has an interest and expertise in economics - not something you could accuse Nicola et al of.
    Further to this....

    https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,kate-forbes-christian-viewpoints-being-squeezed-out-of-uk-politics

    On assisted dying, she said: “One prominent campaigner railed against undeclared personal religious beliefs… in the debate and dismissed arguments from those who were guided by faith. But nobody demands that of anybody subscribing to the new faith, the new ideologies and the new philosophies of our day.

    “Their moral framework, their basis of decision-making, is accepted without question, as though anybody who is free of the burden of an inner conscience grounded in historical truths is unbiased and unprejudiced.

    “Those who hold to those truths – those truths that have birthed such great freedoms and liberties across the ages – are excluded by default.”
    But religious faith is not "grounded in historical truths".
    Not in the sense she means, but I do think some people have been a bit over the top in demanding people not use their religious convictions when deciding on the issue, since everyone will be using their own moral convictions even if not religiously based.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,882

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Lock him up !!

    ‘ BREAKING: Donald Trump's former national security adviser John Bolton has pleaded guilty to mishandling classified documents.’

    https://x.com/skynews/status/2070517397316894992?s=61

    A critic of Trump being prosecuted?

    Hard to tell in today's America if that is as he is guilty, or if it is a malicious prosecution.
    He pleaded guilty.

    In this case any reason to doubt that ?
    Yes.

    Read about plea bargaining in America.
    Something I’ve never heard of before in my entire life.

    In the words of All Saints. Never Ever.

    Every day’s a school day.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,240

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Lock him up !!

    ‘ BREAKING: Donald Trump's former national security adviser John Bolton has pleaded guilty to mishandling classified documents.’

    https://x.com/skynews/status/2070517397316894992?s=61

    A critic of Trump being prosecuted?

    Hard to tell in today's America if that is as he is guilty, or if it is a malicious prosecution.
    He pleaded guilty.

    In this case any reason to doubt that ?
    Yes.

    Read about plea bargaining in America.
    Plea bargain and you get a small fine, go to court and it could be 50 years...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,151
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Lock him up !!

    ‘ BREAKING: Donald Trump's former national security adviser John Bolton has pleaded guilty to mishandling classified documents.’

    https://x.com/skynews/status/2070517397316894992?s=61

    A critic of Trump being prosecuted?

    Hard to tell in today's America if that is as he is guilty, or if it is a malicious prosecution.
    He pleaded guilty.

    In this case any reason to doubt that ?
    Well, there was the case of Michael Flynn who pled guilty to a crime, then later sought to withdraw his plea and the friendlier DoJ sought to do so for him - the judge did not decide on the matter before Trump then pardoned him anyway.

    But I expect Bolton probably did it, it's just that usually people get away with such things.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,151

    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.

    I have relatives who have used the expression 'But it says it on Facebook' when I told them something they read was incorrect. They are not obviously idiots either, but credulity can hit everyone.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,151
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    I always thought there was something a bit bogus about Kate Forbes

    Kate Forbes has shared a stage with hard-right politicians and influencers at an 'anti-woke' conference in London.

    The former SNP deputy first minister spoke at the event co-founded by Jordan Peterson and attended by far-right European parties


    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3mp6uyimib62k

    That's quite Parish Pump Scotland from the National.

    There's a list too long to repost, starting with Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch and Boris Johnson.

    It is Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC); I'd probably term them culture war and USA religious right, rather than fundamentally "hard-right". "Anti-woke" with a focus on "personal morality" probably gets the style, though with peeps from the Trump regime and AFD etc will be present.

    Ben Houchen, Esther McVey and Sarah Pochin are also there.

    More detail: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/alliance-for-responsible-citizenship-arc-conference-farage-london-olympia-b1286811.html

    The key organiser is aiui Baroness Stroud, who is a mover and shaker everywhere on the Right - not dissimilar to Danny Kruger in views imo.
    The issue I have with Kate Forbes. She has always had this line that she has the simple sincere belief of people from the Highlands, I can do no other.

    I'm doubtful that she does have a simple sincere belief but (a) I'm a tolerant and understanding person and (b) it's none of my business what she does believe. I would give her the benefit of any irrelevant doubt if only Forbes was equally tolerant and understanding of other people's different but sincere beliefs.

    Then she goes and signs up with a bunch of nativist ideologues, many of them actual frauds, who wouldn't recognise a Judeo-Christian value if it bit them in the ass.
    Must say I have not ever heard her say a bad thing about anyone. She is entitled to her views and seems to keep them to herself.
    She's genuinely popular in the Highlands. But is certainly out-of-kilter with the ruling SNP worldview, as she's a social conservative and has an interest and expertise in economics - not something you could accuse Nicola et al of.
    Further to this....

    https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,kate-forbes-christian-viewpoints-being-squeezed-out-of-uk-politics

    On assisted dying, she said: “One prominent campaigner railed against undeclared personal religious beliefs… in the debate and dismissed arguments from those who were guided by faith. But nobody demands that of anybody subscribing to the new faith, the new ideologies and the new philosophies of our day.

    “Their moral framework, their basis of decision-making, is accepted without question, as though anybody who is free of the burden of an inner conscience grounded in historical truths is unbiased and unprejudiced.

    “Those who hold to those truths – those truths that have birthed such great freedoms and liberties across the ages – are excluded by default.”
    But religious faith is not "grounded in historical truths".
    Not in the sense she means, but I do think some people have been a bit over the top in demanding people not use their religious convictions when deciding on the issue, since everyone will be using their own moral convictions even if not religiously based.
    To add to this, I feel strongly on this issue despite having no religious convictions, and I have trouble with the implicit idea some seem to have that we can separate out an unreasonable objection/support based on some level on religious faith, and a reasonable objection/support based on non-religious reasoning. Our opinions rarely form in such clear ways as a result of one element of our beliefs only.

    And on the potential point of imposing values on others, well, if a law is passed or not passed, one side will have imposed their change/status quo on the other, regardless of what drove their view.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,534
    kle4 said:

    Does anyone with more than two brain cells actually use Facebook any more? Or indeed believe anything they pick up from social media generally unless it is also from a trusted source?

    Surely Facebook, X and the like are just for children and fuckwits.

    I have relatives who have used the expression 'But it says it on Facebook' when I told them something they read was incorrect. They are not obviously idiots either, but credulity can hit everyone.

    Our local site is usually OK on local issues. Other than that ......
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,040
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Lock him up !!

    ‘ BREAKING: Donald Trump's former national security adviser John Bolton has pleaded guilty to mishandling classified documents.’

    https://x.com/skynews/status/2070517397316894992?s=61

    A critic of Trump being prosecuted?

    Hard to tell in today's America if that is as he is guilty, or if it is a malicious prosecution.
    He pleaded guilty.

    In this case any reason to doubt that ?
    Yes.

    Read about plea bargaining in America.
    Plea bargain and you get a small fine, go to court and it could be 50 years...
    Yes.

    America is notorious for this.

    Remarkable anyone could have never ever heard of it before.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,800
    Things looking bad for Putin.

    So, we must be due an intervention from his two mates in the Whitehouse.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,792
    Lovely and cool in the Toon after an afternoon thunderstorm.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,182

    Things looking bad for Putin.

    So, we must be due an intervention from his two mates in the Whitehouse.

    Russia = Germany
    Ukraine =Allies
    2026 = 1944
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,182
    dixiedean said:

    Lovely and cool in the Toon after an afternoon thunderstorm.

    dixiedean said:

    Lovely and cool in the Toon after an afternoon thunderstorm.

    We currently have the thunder and rain on the Northumberland / Cumbria border. Desperately awaiting the cooling. Today has been unbearably hot and humid.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,597
    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    I always thought there was something a bit bogus about Kate Forbes

    Kate Forbes has shared a stage with hard-right politicians and influencers at an 'anti-woke' conference in London.

    The former SNP deputy first minister spoke at the event co-founded by Jordan Peterson and attended by far-right European parties


    https://bsky.app/profile/scotnational.bsky.social/post/3mp6uyimib62k

    That's quite Parish Pump Scotland from the National.

    There's a list too long to repost, starting with Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch and Boris Johnson.

    It is Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC); I'd probably term them culture war and USA religious right, rather than fundamentally "hard-right". "Anti-woke" with a focus on "personal morality" probably gets the style, though with peeps from the Trump regime and AFD etc will be present.

    Ben Houchen, Esther McVey and Sarah Pochin are also there.

    More detail: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/alliance-for-responsible-citizenship-arc-conference-farage-london-olympia-b1286811.html

    The key organiser is aiui Baroness Stroud, who is a mover and shaker everywhere on the Right - not dissimilar to Danny Kruger in views imo.
    The issue I have with Kate Forbes. She has always had this line that she has the simple sincere belief of people from the Highlands, I can do no other.

    I'm doubtful that she does have a simple sincere belief but (a) I'm a tolerant and understanding person and (b) it's none of my business what she does believe. I would give her the benefit of any irrelevant doubt if only Forbes was equally tolerant and understanding of other people's different but sincere beliefs.

    Then she goes and signs up with a bunch of nativist ideologues, many of them actual frauds, who wouldn't recognise a Judeo-Christian value if it bit them in the ass.
    Must say I have not ever heard her say a bad thing about anyone. She is entitled to her views and seems to keep them to herself.
    She's genuinely popular in the Highlands. But is certainly out-of-kilter with the ruling SNP worldview, as she's a social conservative and has an interest and expertise in economics - not something you could accuse Nicola et al of.
    Further to this....

    https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,kate-forbes-christian-viewpoints-being-squeezed-out-of-uk-politics

    On assisted dying, she said: “One prominent campaigner railed against undeclared personal religious beliefs… in the debate and dismissed arguments from those who were guided by faith. But nobody demands that of anybody subscribing to the new faith, the new ideologies and the new philosophies of our day.

    “Their moral framework, their basis of decision-making, is accepted without question, as though anybody who is free of the burden of an inner conscience grounded in historical truths is unbiased and unprejudiced.

    “Those who hold to those truths – those truths that have birthed such great freedoms and liberties across the ages – are excluded by default.”
    But religious faith is not "grounded in historical truths".
    That's OK framed as a question but won't do as an answer. Same problem as Forbes.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,792

    dixiedean said:

    Lovely and cool in the Toon after an afternoon thunderstorm.

    dixiedean said:

    Lovely and cool in the Toon after an afternoon thunderstorm.

    We currently have the thunder and rain on the Northumberland / Cumbria border. Desperately awaiting the cooling. Today has been unbearably hot and humid.
    It's been positively Arctic compared to Lancashire earlier in the week.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,284

    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
    Companies and self-employed with turnover from 10k - 90k collecting VAT?
    How do you think HMRC would cope with that?
    Very easily, its all digital.

    Its how the firms would cope with it that is another question.
    I've done quarterly VAT returns for almost 20 years, I know how easy it is to file and pay.

    HMRC would have to register at least as many companies and sole traders again for VAT, then they'd have to chase up missed returns and non-payment which I'd suggest would be at a higher rate sub £90k turnover.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,245
    England seem to have ground to a halt in the cricket as NZ tighten things up. Couple of wickets here and the match is still in the balance.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,040
    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
    Companies and self-employed with turnover from 10k - 90k collecting VAT?
    How do you think HMRC would cope with that?
    Very easily, its all digital.

    Its how the firms would cope with it that is another question.
    I've done quarterly VAT returns for almost 20 years, I know how easy it is to file and pay.

    HMRC would have to register at least as many companies and sole traders again for VAT, then they'd have to chase up missed returns and non-payment which I'd suggest would be at a higher rate sub £90k turnover.
    So?

    On their side that is mostly automated. It is the traders having to do the work, not them.

    They just have to sit back and take the money.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,245

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT: VAT is a very interesting tax. It's very easy to collect and nobody seems to mind it.

    Setting VAT at a level that would replace all other taxes seem like something to look at. (I'm sure it has been looked at)

    I wouldn't be looking at changing the rate of tax but I would be looking closely at the threshold at which VAT needs to be collected

    Close to £100,000 is way too high we should follow the european approach of have it from £10,000 or so upwards.
    Companies and self-employed with turnover from 10k - 90k collecting VAT?
    How do you think HMRC would cope with that?
    Very easily, its all digital.

    Its how the firms would cope with it that is another question.
    I've done quarterly VAT returns for almost 20 years, I know how easy it is to file and pay.

    HMRC would have to register at least as many companies and sole traders again for VAT, then they'd have to chase up missed returns and non-payment which I'd suggest would be at a higher rate sub £90k turnover.
    So?

    On their side that is mostly automated. It is the traders having to do the work, not them.

    They just have to sit back and take the money.
    The amount of time taken seemed to increase three fold when they insisted on going digital and we had to use the dreaded Quick Books.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,800

    Things looking bad for Putin.

    So, we must be due an intervention from his two mates in the Whitehouse.

    Russia = Germany
    Ukraine =Allies
    2026 = 1944
    Be nice to think so, but I think Ukr will stop at the old border and not push on to take Moscow and force Putin to end it all in the bunker.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,800
    dixiedean said:

    Lovely and cool in the Toon after an afternoon thunderstorm.

    Murderous heat still in the swamps of the Midlands.

    Still 30 in garden in shade.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,800

    Ailbhe Rea

    @PronouncedAlva
    ·
    16m
    New: Andy Burnham will become prime minister on Monday 20 July if there is no contest.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,541
    I would probably ban social media and smartphones, not just for children, but for adults too.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,496

    dixiedean said:

    Lovely and cool in the Toon after an afternoon thunderstorm.

    Murderous heat still in the swamps of the Midlands.

    Still 30 in garden in shade.

    Same here and was 34 earlier this pm
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,426

    dixiedean said:

    Lovely and cool in the Toon after an afternoon thunderstorm.

    Murderous heat still in the swamps of the Midlands.

    Still 30 in garden in shade.

    Same here and was 34 earlier this pm
    It will be cooler outside than inside in an hour here, so the windows can be opened. Let's hope for a breeze.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,496

    Things looking bad for Putin.

    So, we must be due an intervention from his two mates in the Whitehouse.

    Maybe this posted just now by Trump

    Donald Trump has threatened to impose a 100% import tariff on the UK over its digital services tax on American social media firms.

    The US president also said it would supercede Britain's existing trade deal.

    Mr Trump had previously raised the spectre of such a move unless Britain dropped the 2% levy on the revenues of several major US tech companies.

    The tax targets companies whose worldwide revenues from digital activities exceed £500m, with more than £25m of the revenue from UK users.

    Posting on his Truth Social social media platform, Mr Trump said "Numerous European Countries have been discussing the imminent implementation of a Digital Services Tax on American Companies. Some of these Countries are close to actually doing this.

    Please let this statement serve to represent that any Country that imposes such a Tax will immediately be met with a 100% TARIFF on any and all Goods sent to the United States of America.

    This TARIFF will supersede Trade Deals made with the Country, whether implemented, signed, or not. Additionally, the 100% TARIFF will be immediately imposed, if they proceed."
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,792
    Smugly sitting with an outside temperature of 18°C.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,151

    WarMonitor🇺🇦🇬🇧
    @WarMonitor3
    ·
    2h
    Russians are panicking in Crimea there is a 30 mile traffic jam to get out of the peninsula.

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3

    They tend to be an optimistic source I believe, but the general news is still decent, which is great.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,800

    Things looking bad for Putin.

    So, we must be due an intervention from his two mates in the Whitehouse.

    Maybe this posted just now by Trump

    Donald Trump has threatened to impose a 100% import tariff on the UK over its digital services tax on American social media firms.

    The US president also said it would supercede Britain's existing trade deal.

    Mr Trump had previously raised the spectre of such a move unless Britain dropped the 2% levy on the revenues of several major US tech companies.

    The tax targets companies whose worldwide revenues from digital activities exceed £500m, with more than £25m of the revenue from UK users.

    Posting on his Truth Social social media platform, Mr Trump said "Numerous European Countries have been discussing the imminent implementation of a Digital Services Tax on American Companies. Some of these Countries are close to actually doing this.

    Please let this statement serve to represent that any Country that imposes such a Tax will immediately be met with a 100% TARIFF on any and all Goods sent to the United States of America.

    This TARIFF will supersede Trade Deals made with the Country, whether implemented, signed, or not. Additionally, the 100% TARIFF will be immediately imposed, if they proceed."
    I could write my response but the mods might intervene.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,745
    This is an astonishing thread.

    It suggests there are large numbers of people who don’t think VAT is a mad tax dreamed up by drunks in Brussels to hurt poor people that we should have ditched first thing in January 2020.
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