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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » First post Easter Euros poll sees almost no change

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited April 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » First post Easter Euros poll sees almost no change

This morning’s Sun sees the first post holiday weekend Euros poll from YouGov and the only changes on the the last survey are all within the margin of error. LAB no change, UKIP and CON both down one with the LDs back up one at 10%.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ukip have peaked too early ?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043
  • Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    The fact that they are simultaneously being denounced as racist and denounced for having foreign wives is both amusing and indicative that they are a long way short of peaking. The main three parties are far too close to each other on too many matters for our democracy to be healthy and this is the result.


  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    A fall in violent crime being treated at English and Welsh A&E's.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27119689

    Another piece of evidence that the trend in the two different crime surveys are correct?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited April 2014

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
    Quite so but Farage is duplicitous. His bubble may not burst but it will suffer some deflation. There are always those who are prepared to listen to the likes of Farage...its happened before...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
    Quite so but Farage is duplicitous. His bubble may not burst but it will suffer some deflation. There are always those who are prepared to listen to the likes of Farage...its happened before...
    Since UKIP only want 'skilled' immigrants and not mass immigration, it would be interesting to know Mrs Farage's background. After all, being a secretary is hardly a 'skilled' job. Although it's always possible that she's not working in the UK.

    Particularly as UKIP-style stricter immigration may well lead to more sad cases of genuine husbands and wives being split.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Interesting @JasonGroves1 story in Daily Mail - Boris Johnson to announce he will stand for parliament next year http://t.co/pRi65fai6F
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection Countdown :

    2 hours 2 minutes 2 seconds
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Morning all. I've got my first instalment of my look at the Lib Dems' voters up:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.hu/2014/04/the-hunt-for-2010-lib-dems-part-1.html

    It's about Scotland, but it has wider significance than that.
  • I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    Sticky? Only if the electorate are completely ignorant. Surely if you marry a British person, you are entitled to a British passport. That makes her a British woman.

    Selective amnesia to fool the audience in this sort of situation makes me sick. Farages wife is NOT A NON UK NATIONAL.

    So I take it Mo Farrah is not British then? How do you answer that one lefties? If you are not born in Britain you can never become a British citizen. Is that what you are technically saying? Now who is the hypocrite?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
    Quite so but Farage is duplicitous. His bubble may not burst but it will suffer some deflation. There are always those who are prepared to listen to the likes of Farage...its happened before...
    Since UKIP only want 'skilled' immigrants and not mass immigration, it would be interesting to know Mrs Farage's background. After all, being a secretary is hardly a 'skilled' job. Although it's always possible that she's not working in the UK.

    Particularly as UKIP-style stricter immigration may well lead to more sad cases of genuine husbands and wives being split.
    I have good reason to believe Farage and his wife live in Kent, and at least one daughter attends a school in the Sevenoaks area.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2014

    The fact that they are simultaneously being denounced as racist and denounced for having foreign wives

    No, the charge is hypocrisy - giving a British job to a foreigner, while running an advertising campaign against such practice....No one is objecting to Mrs Farage being German - just asking why Mr Farage's secretary is...which British secretary's job has she taken?

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457


    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    Sticky? Only if the electorate are completely ignorant. Surely if you marry a British person, you are entitled to a British passport. That makes her a British woman.

    Selective amnesia to fool the audience in this sort of situation makes me sick. Farages wife is NOT A NON UK NATIONAL.

    So I take it Mo Farrah is not British then? How do you answer that one lefties? If you are not born in Britain you can never become a British citizen. Is that what you are technically saying? Now who is the hypocrite?
    It seems you have to apply for citizenship; you are not automatically a citizen if you marry a Brit:
    https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen/if-your-spouse-is-a-british-citizen
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216


    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    So I take it Mo Farrah is not British then?
    Is Mo Farrah running an advertising campaign saying foreigners are after British jobs?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
    Quite so but Farage is duplicitous. His bubble may not burst but it will suffer some deflation. There are always those who are prepared to listen to the likes of Farage...its happened before...
    Since UKIP only want 'skilled' immigrants and not mass immigration, it would be interesting to know Mrs Farage's background. After all, being a secretary is hardly a 'skilled' job. Although it's always possible that she's not working in the UK.

    Particularly as UKIP-style stricter immigration may well lead to more sad cases of genuine husbands and wives being split.

    Oh dear - I dislike both UKIP and Farage but I'm not sure many secretaries would be happy with your rather characterisation of the the role as " hardly a 'skilled' job".
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Odd that Labour haven't had any flack over the appointment of a US citizen to help run Ed's election strategy. Same applies to Cameron's patronage of Crosby. There must be some lawyers who aren't British who work in The City, just like Mrs Clegg.

    UKIP Leader has many faults, but being married isn't one of them.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    Are some UKIP supporters really saying that if a British citizen goes to the Far East and gets married, then the spouse automatically gets British citizenship?

    Wow, talk about opening the borders...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    Being a secretary is unquestionably a skilled job, but AFAIK it's not one where skilled practitioners are not readily available in UK.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    felix said:

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
    Quite so but Farage is duplicitous. His bubble may not burst but it will suffer some deflation. There are always those who are prepared to listen to the likes of Farage...its happened before...
    Since UKIP only want 'skilled' immigrants and not mass immigration, it would be interesting to know Mrs Farage's background. After all, being a secretary is hardly a 'skilled' job. Although it's always possible that she's not working in the UK.

    Particularly as UKIP-style stricter immigration may well lead to more sad cases of genuine husbands and wives being split.

    Oh dear - I dislike both UKIP and Farage but I'm not sure many secretaries would be happy with your rather characterisation of the the role as " hardly a 'skilled' job".
    It's not an opinion I'd dare express in my office.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Toesnails ought to have asked: When did you last stop beating your wife?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    felix said:

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
    Quite so but Farage is duplicitous. His bubble may not burst but it will suffer some deflation. There are always those who are prepared to listen to the likes of Farage...its happened before...
    Since UKIP only want 'skilled' immigrants and not mass immigration, it would be interesting to know Mrs Farage's background. After all, being a secretary is hardly a 'skilled' job. Although it's always possible that she's not working in the UK.

    Particularly as UKIP-style stricter immigration may well lead to more sad cases of genuine husbands and wives being split.

    Oh dear - I dislike both UKIP and Farage but I'm not sure many secretaries would be happy with your rather characterisation of the the role as " hardly a 'skilled' job".
    "Secretary" is not one of the "skilled occupations" the Australians, for example, are seeking. I believe UKIP propose using a similar system?

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    I am expecting to have official confirmation at 9.30 today that I have won my bet with Tim about public sector borrowing being lower in the last financial year than the previous one. The target to beat on public sector borrowing for the last year excluding the temporary effects of financial interventions , RM pension plan and transfers from the BoE APFF will be less than £116.5bn.

    It is a lot closer than I frankly expected it to be at the time the bet was placed but unless there is a major surprise today I should win by about £5bn.

    Is anyone still in touch with Tim?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173

    felix said:

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
    Quite so but Farage is duplicitous. His bubble may not burst but it will suffer some deflation. There are always those who are prepared to listen to the likes of Farage...its happened before...
    Since UKIP only want 'skilled' immigrants and not mass immigration, it would be interesting to know Mrs Farage's background. After all, being a secretary is hardly a 'skilled' job. Although it's always possible that she's not working in the UK.

    Particularly as UKIP-style stricter immigration may well lead to more sad cases of genuine husbands and wives being split.

    Oh dear - I dislike both UKIP and Farage but I'm not sure many secretaries would be happy with your rather characterisation of the the role as " hardly a 'skilled' job".
    "Secretary" is not one of the "skilled occupations" the Australians, for example, are seeking. I believe UKIP propose using a similar system?

    Ah well - I'm not sure the Aussie classifications of such matters are entirely representative:)

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    felix said:

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
    Quite so but Farage is duplicitous. His bubble may not burst but it will suffer some deflation. There are always those who are prepared to listen to the likes of Farage...its happened before...
    Since UKIP only want 'skilled' immigrants and not mass immigration, it would be interesting to know Mrs Farage's background. After all, being a secretary is hardly a 'skilled' job. Although it's always possible that she's not working in the UK.

    Particularly as UKIP-style stricter immigration may well lead to more sad cases of genuine husbands and wives being split.
    Oh dear - I dislike both UKIP and Farage but I'm not sure many secretaries would be happy with your rather characterisation of the the role as " hardly a 'skilled' job".
    In that sense, there are few non-skilled jobs, as we have discussed in the past. If you define secretaries as having a 'skilled job' for the purposes of immigration, then the vast majority of workers would have skilled jobs, whether builders, plumbers or car mechanics. All of these require skills.

    For instance, I was surprised a few months ago to find a secretary at a meeting who was taking shorthand. I hadn't met one in years.

    So the question is: would UKIP allow someone with secretarial skills to come to work in the UK?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    YouGov

    Mike: Today's Poll is Cons:34; LAB:37;LD:10; UKIP:12

    YouGov looks at the VOTE/WNV for the EU election.
    It finds that 48% (+5) definitely will vote and a further 16% are very likely to vote (8 and 9 on a 1-10 scale where 10 is will vote).

    Of the current VI, the strongest Voters are UKIP and the weakest are the Cons. Also 25% of the current Cons VI will vote UKIP, whilst only 8% of LAB and 5% of LD will do so.

    On blame for the spending cuts: Coalition is on 25 (0), last Labour Government 38(+2) and Both is 25(-1).

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/zvvptj27x4/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-220414.pdf
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I am no kipper, but to attack Farage for having a German wife is daft. Marriage to foreign nationals has always given rights to permenant residence including working.

    It is perhaps widely abused, giving rise to a sham marriage industry. The coalition has brought in some restrictions, notably an income minimum to get a spouse visa: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/9401355/Pakistan-wedding-rush-to-beat-new-UK-visa-laws.html

    It is not nessecary to be married to get this status, evidence of longstanding cohabitation is enough. I recently employed a Non EU doctor who got a permenant visa Tier 4, by proving cohabitation with her EU partner.

    There are many reasons to dislike Farage, but his wife, or his Latvian lover are not good reasons: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-leader-nigel-farage-handed-3247456

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
    Quite so but Farage is duplicitous. His bubble may not burst but it will suffer some deflation. There are always those who are prepared to listen to the likes of Farage...its happened before...
    Since UKIP only want 'skilled' immigrants and not mass immigration, it would be interesting to know Mrs Farage's background. After all, being a secretary is hardly a 'skilled' job. Although it's always possible that she's not working in the UK.

    Particularly as UKIP-style stricter immigration may well lead to more sad cases of genuine husbands and wives being split.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173

    felix said:

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
    Quite so but Farage is duplicitous. His bubble may not burst but it will suffer some deflation. There are always those who are prepared to listen to the likes of Farage...its happened before...
    Since UKIP only want 'skilled' immigrants and not mass immigration, it would be interesting to know Mrs Farage's background. After all, being a secretary is hardly a 'skilled' job. Although it's always possible that she's not working in the UK.

    Particularly as UKIP-style stricter immigration may well lead to more sad cases of genuine husbands and wives being split.
    Oh dear - I dislike both UKIP and Farage but I'm not sure many secretaries would be happy with your rather characterisation of the the role as " hardly a 'skilled' job".
    In that sense, there are few non-skilled jobs, as we have discussed in the past. If you define secretaries as having a 'skilled job' for the purposes of immigration, then the vast majority of workers would have skilled jobs, whether builders, plumbers or car mechanics. All of these require skills.

    For instance, I was surprised a few months ago to find a secretary at a meeting who was taking shorthand. I hadn't met one in years.

    So the question is: would UKIP allow someone with secretarial skills to come to work in the UK?
    I think many secretaries I've met and worked with are almost as knowledgeable as their bosses - my own certainly was.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2014
    The charge is not that Farage's wife is German but that his secretary is.

    I am no kipper, but to attack Farage for having a German wife is daft. Marriage to foreign nationals has always given rights to permenant residence including working.

  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    Today's YouGov:

    And who do you think is most to blame for the current spending cuts? (Changes from 6/7 April)

    Labour 38% (+2)
    Coalition 25% (nc)
    Both 25% (-1)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457

    I am no kipper, but to attack Farage for having a German wife is daft. Marriage to foreign nationals has always given rights to permenant residence including working.

    It is perhaps widely abused, giving rise to a sham marriage industry. The coalition has brought in some restrictions, notably an income minimum to get a spouse visa: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/9401355/Pakistan-wedding-rush-to-beat-new-UK-visa-laws.html

    It is not nessecary to be married to get this status, evidence of longstanding cohabitation is enough. I recently employed a Non EU doctor who got a permenant visa Tier 4, by proving cohabitation with her EU partner.

    There are many reasons to dislike Farage, but his wife, or his Latvian lover are not good reasons: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-leader-nigel-farage-handed-3247456

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
    Quite so but Farage is duplicitous. His bubble may not burst but it will suffer some deflation. There are always those who are prepared to listen to the likes of Farage...its happened before...
    Since UKIP only want 'skilled' immigrants and not mass immigration, it would be interesting to know Mrs Farage's background. After all, being a secretary is hardly a 'skilled' job. Although it's always possible that she's not working in the UK.

    Particularly as UKIP-style stricter immigration may well lead to more sad cases of genuine husbands and wives being split.
    I'm not attacking Farage: I'm asking serious questions about UKIP would allow and restrict. I find it doubly interesting as my own industry has terrible troubles in recruiting from abroad, in a high-paying industry where our own universities do not produce enough graduates.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
    Quite so but Farage is duplicitous. His bubble may not burst but it will suffer some deflation. There are always those who are prepared to listen to the likes of Farage...its happened before...
    Since UKIP only want 'skilled' immigrants and not mass immigration, it would be interesting to know Mrs Farage's background. After all, being a secretary is hardly a 'skilled' job. Although it's always possible that she's not working in the UK.

    Particularly as UKIP-style stricter immigration may well lead to more sad cases of genuine husbands and wives being split.

    Oh dear - I dislike both UKIP and Farage but I'm not sure many secretaries would be happy with your rather characterisation of the the role as " hardly a 'skilled' job".
    "Secretary" is not one of the "skilled occupations" the Australians, for example, are seeking. I believe UKIP propose using a similar system?

    Ah well - I'm not sure the Aussie classifications of such matters are entirely representative:)

    Has UKIP published a list of the "skilled occupations" they will permit entry to?

    Do you think "secretary" is likely to be on it?

    For perspective, here is the Australian list:

    http://www.workpermit.com/australia/skilled/occupation_list.htm
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    My wife is German and I can assure you she has no plans to become a UK citizen! So Nigel Farage deserves all the flack he is getting here. Whatever your views on the race angle, to talk about foreigners stealing your job has not only been thoroughly debunked when the Tories tried to claim it was true, but it sets people against each other and breeds mistrust or worse - shame on them.

    In our area UKIP are shouting loudly, but our canvass returns are showing only a trickle of UKIP support - and it looks like they haven't got the candidates to fight that many seats - looking like they are less strong than they claim.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    That is only slightly different. Spouses of UK citizens have always had the right to work here.

    I agree about Secretaries being plentiful in the UK for employment, a lot of typing has been outsourced electronically via companies such as dictateIT. Many secretaries at my hospital were made redundant when this company was taken on: https://www.dictate.it/frontend/

    It may be more interesting to find out if our politicians spouse secretaries actually do any relavent work for their salary, perhaps challenge them to a typing or shorthand test, or simply phone their offices and see who answers. The Inland Revenue assesses whether a spouse-secretary is bonefide this way, so there is precedent. Sauce for the goose etc...

    The charge is not that Farage's wife is German but that his secretary is.

    I am no kipper, but to attack Farage for having a German wife is daft. Marriage to foreign nationals has always given rights to permenant residence including working.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    dr_spyn said:

    Odd that Labour haven't had any flack over the appointment of a US citizen to help run Ed's election strategy. Same applies to Cameron's patronage of Crosby. There must be some lawyers who aren't British who work in The City, just like Mrs Clegg.

    UKIP Leader has many faults, but being married isn't one of them.

    It's not "odd" - because neither of them are running billboard campaigns against foreigners taking British jobs - only UKIP are. Farrage's sin is not in being married, but in employing a foreigner while simultaneously denouncing the ability of others to do so.

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Financier said:

    YouGov

    Mike: Today's Poll is Cons:34; LAB:37;LD:10; UKIP:12

    YouGov looks at the VOTE/WNV for the EU election.
    It finds that 48% (+5) definitely will vote and a further 16% are very likely to vote (8 and 9 on a 1-10 scale where 10 is will vote).

    Of the current VI, the strongest Voters are UKIP and the weakest are the Cons. Also 25% of the current Cons VI will vote UKIP, whilst only 8% of LAB and 5% of LD will do so.

    On blame for the spending cuts: Coalition is on 25 (0), last Labour Government 38(+2) and Both is 25(-1).

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/zvvptj27x4/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-220414.pdf

    The 2010 LD>Lab switchers don't seem to be staying on board for the EU Parliament vote.

    2010 LD Westminster: Lab 29%, LD 37%, Con 17%, UKIP 9%, Green 5%
    2010 LD EU: Lab 18%, LD 35%, Con 12%, UKIP 19%, Green 12%

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Why do the Left hate Tone so much?
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    antifrank said:

    Morning all. I've got my first instalment of my look at the Lib Dems' voters up:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.hu/2014/04/the-hunt-for-2010-lib-dems-part-1.html

    It's about Scotland, but it has wider significance than that.

    Is the Scottish referendum still a big unknown in terms of the follow-on effect on the SNP vote in the UK general election?

    Is it plausible that if and when the referendum vote goes against the SNP (which I hope and expect), then the SNP will flounder in the following UK general election; or will they still be a safe bet as an alternative to Labour and the Tories?

    If the SNP are negatively affected, will the Lib Dems be the beneficiary?

    (ps can you add some other ways of being able to comment via Blogger?)
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Happy St George's Day everyone. And a salute to the Bard, who may have been born on this die and definitely died on it.

    YouGov reporting a possible turnout of well over 40% in the Euros is a bit of a surprise. If that figure is hopelessly wrong and the actual votes cast don't look much like their final estimations, won't that tell us that they are basically a bit Angus Reid?

    We are only a few weeks off finding out a lot more about how good our opinion pollsters are.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    It could, but it also makes it much harder to throw accusations of racism / xenophobia / Little Englander against him.

    Harder, but not impossible.
    Quite so but Farage is duplicitous. His bubble may not burst but it will suffer some deflation. There are always those who are prepared to listen to the likes of Farage...its happened before...
    Since UKIP only want 'skilled' immigrants and not mass immigration, it would be interesting to know Mrs Farage's background. After all, being a secretary is hardly a 'skilled' job. Although it's always possible that she's not working in the UK.

    Particularly as UKIP-style stricter immigration may well lead to more sad cases of genuine husbands and wives being split.

    Oh dear - I dislike both UKIP and Farage but I'm not sure many secretaries would be happy with your rather characterisation of the the role as " hardly a 'skilled' job".
    "Secretary" is not one of the "skilled occupations" the Australians, for example, are seeking. I believe UKIP propose using a similar system?

    Ah well - I'm not sure the Aussie classifications of such matters are entirely representative:)

    Has UKIP published a list of the "skilled occupations" they will permit entry to?

    Do you think "secretary" is likely to be on it?

    For perspective, here is the Australian list:

    http://www.workpermit.com/australia/skilled/occupation_list.htm
    Mrs Farage didn't come to the UK as a secretary. She worked in the city.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited April 2014
    Because he won more elections than any other Labour leader apart from Wilson, and therefore contaminated their pure ideals with the dirt of actual government?

    Not unadjacent to why the kippers dislike Cameron. Better the failure of 2001 and 2005 than the 97 seat gains of 2010.
    TOPPING said:

    Why do the Left hate Tone so much?

  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Just completed a Yougov VI poll this morning . In addition to Westminster and Euro VI it has pics of the UKIP campaign posters and questions as to whether they are racist , hard hitting but fair etc .
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Millsy said:

    antifrank said:

    Morning all. I've got my first instalment of my look at the Lib Dems' voters up:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.hu/2014/04/the-hunt-for-2010-lib-dems-part-1.html

    It's about Scotland, but it has wider significance than that.

    Is the Scottish referendum still a big unknown in terms of the follow-on effect on the SNP vote in the UK general election?

    Is it plausible that if and when the referendum vote goes against the SNP (which I hope and expect), then the SNP will flounder in the following UK general election; or will they still be a safe bet as an alternative to Labour and the Tories?

    If the SNP are negatively affected, will the Lib Dems be the beneficiary?

    (ps can you add some other ways of being able to comment via Blogger?)

    I'd expect a big SNP vote boost in the event of a No. Funnily enough, a Yes might be more or a problem for them if Project Fib begins to unwind prior to the GE.

  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    Financier said:

    YouGov

    Mike: Today's Poll is Cons:34; LAB:37;LD:10; UKIP:12

    YouGov looks at the VOTE/WNV for the EU election.
    It finds that 48% (+5) definitely will vote and a further 16% are very likely to vote (8 and 9 on a 1-10 scale where 10 is will vote).

    Of the current VI, the strongest Voters are UKIP and the weakest are the Cons. Also 25% of the current Cons VI will vote UKIP, whilst only 8% of LAB and 5% of LD will do so.

    On blame for the spending cuts: Coalition is on 25 (0), last Labour Government 38(+2) and Both is 25(-1).

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/zvvptj27x4/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-220414.pdf

    The 2010 LD>Lab switchers don't seem to be staying on board for the EU Parliament vote.

    2010 LD Westminster: Lab 29%, LD 37%, Con 17%, UKIP 9%, Green 5%
    2010 LD EU: Lab 18%, LD 35%, Con 12%, UKIP 19%, Green 12%

    @anotherDave

    That is interesting, but also the switchers are not going back to the LDs but are supporting UKIP and Green - of course it could be a different subset of LDs in each case.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Millsy said:

    antifrank said:

    Morning all. I've got my first instalment of my look at the Lib Dems' voters up:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.hu/2014/04/the-hunt-for-2010-lib-dems-part-1.html

    It's about Scotland, but it has wider significance than that.

    Is the Scottish referendum still a big unknown in terms of the follow-on effect on the SNP vote in the UK general election?

    Is it plausible that if and when the referendum vote goes against the SNP (which I hope and expect), then the SNP will flounder in the following UK general election; or will they still be a safe bet as an alternative to Labour and the Tories?

    If the SNP are negatively affected, will the Lib Dems be the beneficiary?

    (ps can you add some other ways of being able to comment via Blogger?)
    On the Scottish referendum, I absolutely agree that it's the big unknown. As to who would benefit from a decline of the SNP, I suspect Labour. But I'm not going to pretend I have any great secret source of information. That's just a hunch.

    People are welcome to comment on my site if they wish (especially if they think that I've made a mistake, which no doubt I have on several occasions). It's mainly somewhere for me to dump my betting thinking rather than a blog commitment, so I haven't set it up with much forethought about such things.

    I have a few more posts that I want to get out of my system, but once I've got all my thoughts down, I'm not going to keep posting for the sake of it. It will just be a resource, primarily for my own benefit.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    TOPPING said:

    Why do the Left hate Tone so much?

    Who are "the Left"? It often puzzles me.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Good morning, everyone.

    Weird outside. I could see my breath, so it's probably 6C or lower, but it felt humid...

    Inquisition: incidentally, you get some bonus stuff just for pre-ordering (any version, I think). Leaning towards just the standard version, but I'll wait and see what extra stuff the Deluxe gets [on top of currently announced things]. Worth mentioning that GAME do send stuff early, so it arrives on release date or earlier, whereas Amazon usually don't.

    I do wonder if UKIP will beat Labour. It's looking increasingly like the blues will get third and the Lib Dems will struggle valiantly with the Greens for the honour of fourth.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Do "foreigners" take British jobs?

    Of course. Many of Lincolnshire's fields are now replete with Lithuanian accents. Those jobs were once done exclusively by local workers. They may be better .... they may be harder working and they may work for less but they are not really skilled jobs.

    Is anyone arguing that they don't take British jobs?

    Surely the argument is whether that is good or bad?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    TOPPING said:

    Why do the Left hate Tone so much?

    Because he is one of the best (or worst depending on your view and definition) examples of unashamed money-grabbing for selfish purposes.

    Also he rode on the backs of the Left (who were desperate for power) to get elected and fooled them for years about his hidden objective - massive personal wealth and global adulation.
  • Because he won more elections than any other Labour leader apart from Wilson, and therefore contaminated their pure ideals with the dirt of actual government?

    Not unadjacent to why the kippers dislike Cameron. Better the failure of 2001 and 2005 than the 97 seat gains of 2010.

    TOPPING said:

    Why do the Left hate Tone so much?

    One reason for being a "leftie" is hatred of power, and an unmitigated despising of those who exercise it. It is impossible to do so for any length of time or in any capacity (and I include unpaid TU work such as shop stewarding) without hurting someone intentionally or otherwise.
    There are always rationalisations of course, usually involving "the greater good" but it is important never to forget that these are rationalisations.





  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    CD13 said:

    Do "foreigners" take British jobs?

    Of course. Many of Lincolnshire's fields are now replete with Lithuanian accents. Those jobs were once done exclusively by local workers. They may be better .... they may be harder working and they may work for less but they are not really skilled jobs.

    Is anyone arguing that they don't take British jobs?

    Surely the argument is whether that is good or bad?

    They definitely take jobs Brits could do. But that is slightly different.

  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    CD13 said:

    Do "foreigners" take British jobs?

    Of course. Many of Lincolnshire's fields are now replete with Lithuanian accents. Those jobs were once done exclusively by local workers. They may be better .... they may be harder working and they may work for less but they are not really skilled jobs.

    Is anyone arguing that they don't take British jobs?

    Surely the argument is whether that is good or bad?

    It is bad if we have to pay benefits to those who are/were unwilling to take up those jobs.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Millsy said:

    antifrank said:

    Morning all. I've got my first instalment of my look at the Lib Dems' voters up:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.hu/2014/04/the-hunt-for-2010-lib-dems-part-1.html

    It's about Scotland, but it has wider significance than that.

    Is the Scottish referendum still a big unknown in terms of the follow-on effect on the SNP vote in the UK general election?

    Is it plausible that if and when the referendum vote goes against the SNP (which I hope and expect), then the SNP will flounder in the following UK general election; or will they still be a safe bet as an alternative to Labour and the Tories?

    If the SNP are negatively affected, will the Lib Dems be the beneficiary?

    (ps can you add some other ways of being able to comment via Blogger?)
    Answer is NO and NO, Lib Dems will be slaughtered and at worst it will be very close and so SNP will be stronger going forward.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Tories who bang on about left-wing bias in the BBC can rest easy after seeing Nick Robinson's performance with Farage.Robinson pursued the Murdoch agenda with great vigour.He must be the best press officer the Tories have.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection Countdown :

    30 minutes 30 seconds
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Pete, Labour and the Lib Dems don't exactly like UKIP either.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    OT

    On April 21, ExxonMobil UK subsidiary Esso said it had shut one of the country's main underground fuel pipelines after police found a stash of diesel they believe was siphoned off by thieves. Police arrested two men in connection with the theft, with more than 30,000 litres of diesel allegedly involved.

    "Lines of enquiry include establishing the exact amount of fuel stolen and examining the suspected sophisticated method used in this alleged theft," police said in a statement.

    Police launched their investigation after a large quantity of diesel was found in an industrial storage unit at West Wellow, Hampshire, southern England, where the thieves are thought to have tapped into the 14-inch pipeline. A police statement said the stolen fuel was being stored safely and was being retrieved by engineers from the refinery.

    The Midline Pipeline runs north from Esso's Fawley oil refinery near Southampton to a terminal in Birmingham, central England.

    http://www.hazardexonthenet.net/article/74340/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Anyone got a question for him?
    Can't promise to ask and he may not take them.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    I don't we take into account quite enough what is seen as Blair's "Great Betrayal" over Iraq. Labour, particularly with Cook as Foreign Sec had boasted of an ethical Foreign Policy, and while they got themselves into a bit of a mess over Kosovo, it was as nothing compared to Iraq.
    Now everyone who was at the top (or near enough) have gone, Labour's more electable. From a Leftish point of view, anyway.

    Secondly, I don't think we take into account sufficiently the anger over Clegg's total volte face over tuition fees, immediately after taking office. I suspect a lot of Lab/LD's won't come back until he, and anyone else closely identified with that business have gone..
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Don't you just hate it when politicians "fly in for the day" from Westminster Holyrood?

    Speaking in Carlisle, Scotland’s First Minister will insist that the “social union” between the people of the four members of the United Kingdom would remain if the Scottish people vote to leave it in their September referendum.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/provocative-alex-salmond-promises-an-independent-scotland-will-help-north-of-england-fight-the-power-of-london-9275470.html
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    TOPPING said:

    Anyone got a question for him?
    Can't promise to ask and he may not take them.

    Ask him who would win a fight between a baboon and a badger.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Miss Vance, nice of Salmond to speak on behalf of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    And he can **** off if he thinks he speaks for 'northerners'.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    MD,

    "Labour and the Lib Dems don't exactly like UKIP either."

    And being politicians, they will be hypocritical.

    My view ... immigration probably has some financial benefits for the "country". It certainly must increase GDP (whatever that is really), it reduces wage costs (ask the farmers) and it increases the skill set (overall).

    But some parts of the population definitely suffer. Why then did Labour support it?

    They are outraged when austerity measures affect "vulnerable" sectors of the population. They must be protected, it's unfair, the Government don't understand etc.

    Is that not hypocrisy?

    This politics game is very complicated, isn't it?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    On topic, the figure for 'Others' looks decidedly low to me. In 2009, Others (excluding UKIP) won over a quarter of the vote. Even if we accept that UKIP have vacuumed up a lot of the minority right and far-right vote, 11% still seems low when the Greens invariably do much better than for Westminster (8% by themselves in 2009), and with the SNP riding high in Scotland. It might not matter if votes leak equally to 'other Others' but when there's only a three point lead, that sort of thing may prove critical in terms of who wins.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Miss Vance, nice of Salmond to speak on behalf of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    And he can **** off if he thinks he speaks for 'northerners'.

    There are nearly three times as many "Northerners' (north of the Trent)) as there are Scots......so very big of him to offer to help them out....

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    So the (social) union is a good thing? And that cross border co-operation is another good thing?

    Has Salmond joined the Better Together campaign? Heaven has a place for a sinner who repents...

    Don't you just hate it when politicians "fly in for the day" from Westminster Holyrood?

    Speaking in Carlisle, Scotland’s First Minister will insist that the “social union” between the people of the four members of the United Kingdom would remain if the Scottish people vote to leave it in their September referendum.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/provocative-alex-salmond-promises-an-independent-scotland-will-help-north-of-england-fight-the-power-of-london-9275470.html

  • Iggypop37Iggypop37 Posts: 14
    Definitely money to be made here as both ukip and labour are well above evens. Tories nowhere
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    .... I don't think we take into account sufficiently the anger over Clegg's total volte face over tuition fees, immediately after taking office. I suspect a lot of Lab/LD's won't come back until he, and anyone else closely identified with that business have gone..

    I often chide PBers that they forget one of the main tenets of Coalition government - You don't get all you hope for.

    Surely so it is with the LibDems and tuition fees. You might argue the viability of the policy and I do but the LibDems lost the policy because quite correctly the Conservatives vetoed it.

  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Iggypop37 said:

    Definitely money to be made here as both ukip and labour are well above evens. Tories nowhere

    If you combine the William Hill odds on Labour most votes and Ladbrokes on UKIP you can get a 1/9 bet on either of them winning. Is there less than 10% chance that someone else (presumably the Tories) wins? Mmm, I'm not sure on that one - but maybe.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    JackW said:

    .... I don't think we take into account sufficiently the anger over Clegg's total volte face over tuition fees, immediately after taking office. I suspect a lot of Lab/LD's won't come back until he, and anyone else closely identified with that business have gone..

    I often chide PBers that they forget one of the main tenets of Coalition government - You don't get all you hope for.

    Surely so it is with the LibDems and tuition fees. You might argue the viability of the policy and I do but the LibDems lost the policy because quite correctly the Conservatives vetoed it.

    To be fair, it was probably more the VAT rise announced in Osborne's first budget that did for the LDs.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Miss Vance, nice of Salmond to speak on behalf of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    And he can **** off if he thinks he speaks for 'northerners'.

    There are nearly three times as many "Northerners' (north of the Trent)) as there are Scots......so very big of him to offer to help them out....

    He will at least be able to point out that unemployment in the north is vastly higher than in the south and that perhaps a flourishing independent Scotland would be beneficial.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to the JNN the contents of the latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection :

    Con 300 .. Lab 280 .. LibDem 38 .. SNP 8 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 2 .. Green 1 .. Respect 0 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1

    Conservatives 26 seats short of a majority

    .....................................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    RE: Secretaries

    Each of my sons, who are executive directors of Plcs, have a PA (a lady in each case) who acts for him and also for other board members.

    The PA arranges travel etc, takes minutes at important meetings and circulates them. However it is not a 9-5 job as they are required to arrive and stay as needed and frequently travel with him on visits to other parts of the global group.

    This requires an alert and intelligent person who is able to use their own initiative and so is remunerated more highly than a "secretary". On where they come from - that is irrelevant as long as they are excellent in their job and present themselves well. A few extra languages is nowadays more a requirement than a well-received bonus.

    Usually, the PAs have to be better educated than is the norm in the UK, are mostly graduates and frequently come from outside the UK.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Don't you just hate it when politicians "fly in for the day" from Westminster Holyrood?

    Speaking in Carlisle, Scotland’s First Minister will insist that the “social union” between the people of the four members of the United Kingdom would remain if the Scottish people vote to leave it in their September referendum.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/provocative-alex-salmond-promises-an-independent-scotland-will-help-north-of-england-fight-the-power-of-london-9275470.html

    The interesting difference is whether he stays behind to answer questions from the public, never mind refuse to speak to even selected journalists beyond a few token answers.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Mike, note that there's a minor typo in the header - Con share for Westminster is 34, not 35.


    I see Toenails asked Farage about whose job his wife was taking.. I wonder how many other UKIP candidates have non UK nationals as partners,.. Could get sticky for Farage and co.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043

    Sticky? Only if the electorate are completely ignorant. Surely if you marry a British person, you are entitled to a British passport. That makes her a British woman.

    Selective amnesia to fool the audience in this sort of situation makes me sick. Farages wife is NOT A NON UK NATIONAL.

    So I take it Mo Farrah is not British then? How do you answer that one lefties? If you are not born in Britain you can never become a British citizen. Is that what you are technically saying? Now who is the hypocrite?
    You feel that Squareroot is a lefty? I've heard of big tents, but we're going to need a yurt festival if you push everyone over to us. That Richard Nabavi, for instance - a bit soft on Miliband, don't you think?

    To give a more serious answer - marrying someone British gives you the right to become British, but doesn't make you British unless you choose to, no matter how many CAPITAL LETTERS YOU EMPLOY. Does it matter? Not to me. But apparently to you?

  • JackW said:

    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to the JNN the contents of the latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection :

    Con 300 .. Lab 280 .. LibDem 38 .. SNP 8 .. PC 2 .. NI 18 .. Ukip 2 .. Green 1 .. Respect 0 .. Ind 0 .. Speaker 1

    Conservatives 26 seats short of a majority

    .....................................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors


    I don't suppose anyone will disagree with "NI 18" - but where do you see UKIP's second seat coming from?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    The 2 UKIP seats:

    Eastleigh/Thanet South ?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Carnyx said:

    Don't you just hate it when politicians "fly in for the day" from Westminster Holyrood?

    Speaking in Carlisle, Scotland’s First Minister will insist that the “social union” between the people of the four members of the United Kingdom would remain if the Scottish people vote to leave it in their September referendum.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/provocative-alex-salmond-promises-an-independent-scotland-will-help-north-of-england-fight-the-power-of-london-9275470.html

    The interesting difference is whether he stays behind to answer questions from the public, never mind refuse to speak to even selected journalists beyond a few token answers.
    Another unionist told a pack of lies and ran away yesterday. They do not even have the courage to actually defend their blatant lies. All requests for TV interviews declined so he could not be ridiculed.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    JackW said:

    .... I don't think we take into account sufficiently the anger over Clegg's total volte face over tuition fees, immediately after taking office. I suspect a lot of Lab/LD's won't come back until he, and anyone else closely identified with that business have gone..

    I often chide PBers that they forget one of the main tenets of Coalition government - You don't get all you hope for.

    Surely so it is with the LibDems and tuition fees. You might argue the viability of the policy and I do but the LibDems lost the policy because quite correctly the Conservatives vetoed it.

    To be fair, it was probably more the VAT rise announced in Osborne's first budget that did for the LDs.
    JackW is correct that coalition government by their very nature make all manifesto promises are null and void – but the Lib Dems made a solemn ‘pledge’ - they signed it and everything…!

    I’m sure the sense betrayal was palpable by those ‘students’ that voted LD on the back of such campaigning.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    antifrank said:

    Millsy said:

    antifrank said:

    Morning all. I've got my first instalment of my look at the Lib Dems' voters up:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.hu/2014/04/the-hunt-for-2010-lib-dems-part-1.html

    It's about Scotland, but it has wider significance than that.

    Is the Scottish referendum still a big unknown in terms of the follow-on effect on the SNP vote in the UK general election?

    Is it plausible that if and when the referendum vote goes against the SNP (which I hope and expect), then the SNP will flounder in the following UK general election; or will they still be a safe bet as an alternative to Labour and the Tories?

    If the SNP are negatively affected, will the Lib Dems be the beneficiary?

    (ps can you add some other ways of being able to comment via Blogger?)
    On the Scottish referendum, I absolutely agree that it's the big unknown. As to who would benefit from a decline of the SNP, I suspect Labour. But I'm not going to pretend I have any great secret source of information. That's just a hunch.

    People are welcome to comment on my site if they wish (especially if they think that I've made a mistake, which no doubt I have on several occasions). It's mainly somewhere for me to dump my betting thinking rather than a blog commitment, so I haven't set it up with much forethought about such things.

    I have a few more posts that I want to get out of my system, but once I've got all my thoughts down, I'm not going to keep posting for the sake of it. It will just be a resource, primarily for my own benefit.

    One potential factor is becoming apparent - if only because it seems the only rational explanation for many Labour and LD politicians' reluctance to get involved in the indy debates. It is the fear of being publicly associated with the Tories, a situation which is toxic in Scotland in the view of many voters (and will remain so till the Tories in Scotland can break free from the UK party one way or another, or collapse and are replaced by a new, home-grown rightist party).

    Related to this is the factor that the rough equality of support for Yes and No already means that any MP or MSP could upset and lose up to half his or her existing vote at the next GEs (both Scottish and UK) by coming out on one side or another.

    This is not an issue for the SNP and for the Tories (as they have long come out of the closet and the damage, such as it is, is done). But it must be a real problem for Labour and the LDs and

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @Innocent_Abroad and @Pulpstar

    Excepting the 13 seats of the "JackW Dozen", to be issued from next month, I shall not be issuing seat by seat pronouncements.

    However in Ukip's case it's hardly a state secret that Herr Farage is one of the two. The other is so marginal it keeps popping in and out of the projection with almost predictable regularity.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    antifrank said:

    Morning all. I've got my first instalment of my look at the Lib Dems' voters up:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.hu/2014/04/the-hunt-for-2010-lib-dems-part-1.html

    It's about Scotland, but it has wider significance than that.

    Excellent stuff !
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    JackW said:

    .... I don't think we take into account sufficiently the anger over Clegg's total volte face over tuition fees, immediately after taking office. I suspect a lot of Lab/LD's won't come back until he, and anyone else closely identified with that business have gone..

    I often chide PBers that they forget one of the main tenets of Coalition government - You don't get all you hope for.

    Surely so it is with the LibDems and tuition fees. You might argue the viability of the policy and I do but the LibDems lost the policy because quite correctly the Conservatives vetoed it.

    If only it hadn't come up within, it seemed "hours" of taking office!

    Otherwise I agree, Sir, about Coalitions. That's the whole point; a group of politicians find enough points on which they agree to form a Government.
    That saying, I take the point about VAT. I think that a reversal here should be the next tax cut!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    @JackW If it isn't Eastleigh/Thanet South I'm not sure where it is ;)
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    .... I don't think we take into account sufficiently the anger over Clegg's total volte face over tuition fees, immediately after taking office. I suspect a lot of Lab/LD's won't come back until he, and anyone else closely identified with that business have gone..

    I often chide PBers that they forget one of the main tenets of Coalition government - You don't get all you hope for.

    Surely so it is with the LibDems and tuition fees. You might argue the viability of the policy and I do but the LibDems lost the policy because quite correctly the Conservatives vetoed it.

    To be fair, it was probably more the VAT rise announced in Osborne's first budget that did for the LDs.
    JackW is correct that coalition government by their very nature make all manifesto promises are null and void – but the Lib Dems made a solemn ‘pledge’ - they signed it and everything…!

    I’m sure the sense betrayal was palpable by those ‘students’ that voted LD on the back of such campaigning.
    Is there any significant difference between a "solemn pledge" and a "manifesto pledge". The essential to carrying out either is to win the election.

    To my mind the LibDems were guilty of executing an electorially excellent campaign proposal that they were in no position to implement even in the event of a Coalition.

    In short they successfully deluded themselves and students.

  • Pulpstar said:

    @JackW If it isn't Eastleigh/Thanet South I'm not sure where it is ;)

    Oh, now I think about it, it's got to be Eastleigh. JW's such a drama queen...

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Pulpstar said:

    @JackW If it isn't Eastleigh/Thanet South I'm not sure where it is ;)

    I am utterly resolved, unless the pressure/bribe of a few cases of single malt prevails, that I couldn't possibly comment.

  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    antifrank said:

    Morning all. I've got my first instalment of my look at the Lib Dems' voters up:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.hu/2014/04/the-hunt-for-2010-lib-dems-part-1.html

    It's about Scotland, but it has wider significance than that.

    Excellent analysis, and I'd agree with all of it (for my bank balance's sake I hope it's right anyway). And I agree on Jo Swinson, her majority looks insanity to defend. I think the bookies having the LDs joint favourite in Gordon despite Malcolm Bruce stepping down is probably a bit generous too.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    .... I don't think we take into account sufficiently the anger over Clegg's total volte face over tuition fees, immediately after taking office. I suspect a lot of Lab/LD's won't come back until he, and anyone else closely identified with that business have gone..

    I often chide PBers that they forget one of the main tenets of Coalition government - You don't get all you hope for.

    Surely so it is with the LibDems and tuition fees. You might argue the viability of the policy and I do but the LibDems lost the policy because quite correctly the Conservatives vetoed it.

    If only it hadn't come up within, it seemed "hours" of taking office!

    Otherwise I agree, Sir, about Coalitions. That's the whole point; a group of politicians find enough points on which they agree to form a Government.
    That saying, I take the point about VAT. I think that a reversal here should be the next tax cut!
    I think pragmatically it was such a huge financial commitment that tuition fees had to be decided upon immediately.

    As for future tax cuts I'd be bound to say "Carry on Danny" - Continue to Increase the tax threshold to help the working poor and also look at the starting rate for NI.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    .... I don't think we take into account sufficiently the anger over Clegg's total volte face over tuition fees, immediately after taking office. I suspect a lot of Lab/LD's won't come back until he, and anyone else closely identified with that business have gone..

    I often chide PBers that they forget one of the main tenets of Coalition government - You don't get all you hope for.

    Surely so it is with the LibDems and tuition fees. You might argue the viability of the policy and I do but the LibDems lost the policy because quite correctly the Conservatives vetoed it.

    To be fair, it was probably more the VAT rise announced in Osborne's first budget that did for the LDs.
    JackW is correct that coalition government by their very nature make all manifesto promises are null and void – but the Lib Dems made a solemn ‘pledge’ - they signed it and everything…!

    I’m sure the sense betrayal was palpable by those ‘students’ that voted LD on the back of such campaigning.
    Is there any significant difference between a "solemn pledge" and a "manifesto pledge". The essential to carrying out either is to win the election.

    To my mind the LibDems were guilty of executing an electorially excellent campaign proposal that they were in no position to implement even in the event of a Coalition.

    In short they successfully deluded themselves and students.
    No, the Lab/Lib/Con are all liars, but that doesn't resonate with JackW and quite a few others.
    Only if UKIP caught in a gaff or lie is it deemed to be serious, heinous, etc,.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    edited April 2014
    Borrowing figures seem encouraging but we need Avery!

    "In March 2014, public sector net borrowing excluding temporary effects of financial interventions (PSNB ex) was £6.7 billion. This was £4.7 billion lower than in March 2013, when it was £11.4 billion"

    And looks as if DavidL has won his bet with tim with £7.5bn to spare. He is thus inducted into the Most Salacious Order of the PbTories.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited April 2014
    On the UKIP campaign, it seems to have a much harder edge than Farage has been using recently, and also exposes vulnerabilities like the taxpayer-employed foreign secretary-wife. I wonder if Farage got to design the campaign.

    We've seen a bit of this in the US, but these rich donors must be a mixed blessing. If you end up having to optimize your campaign for them, or worse let them dictate the nature of the campaign, it risks blowing your strategy off course. Meanwhile it's liable to deter smaller donors, who won't want to blow their precious twenty pounds if it looks meaningless compared to the big money.

    A better way to handle these people might be to ask them to match small individual donations pound-for-pound, which would help both the leadership strategy and the grassroots efforts rather than smothering them.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    .... I don't think we take into account sufficiently the anger over Clegg's total volte face over tuition fees, immediately after taking office. I suspect a lot of Lab/LD's won't come back until he, and anyone else closely identified with that business have gone..

    I often chide PBers that they forget one of the main tenets of Coalition government - You don't get all you hope for.

    Surely so it is with the LibDems and tuition fees. You might argue the viability of the policy and I do but the LibDems lost the policy because quite correctly the Conservatives vetoed it.

    To be fair, it was probably more the VAT rise announced in Osborne's first budget that did for the LDs.
    JackW is correct that coalition government by their very nature make all manifesto promises are null and void – but the Lib Dems made a solemn ‘pledge’ - they signed it and everything…!

    I’m sure the sense betrayal was palpable by those ‘students’ that voted LD on the back of such campaigning.
    Is there any significant difference between a "solemn pledge" and a "manifesto pledge". The essential to carrying out either is to win the election.

    To my mind the LibDems were guilty of executing an electorially excellent campaign proposal that they were in no position to implement even in the event of a Coalition.

    In short they successfully deluded themselves and students.

    The difference with the tuition fees was the incredibly pious/sad/solemn/serious face way Nick Clegg went about it. All politicians spew seven thousand litres of bunkum, and we know its all bunkum where they stand next to the poster saying how if the other lot get in, taxes will go up, puppies will burn (In the case of Labour this is often true but hey ho) and people think - its politicians being politicians. Ed Balls is a good example of this, you don't believe a word he says, but hey thats ok; he is Ed Balls and obviously he's just spouting claptrap trying to get into power.

    But Clegg's promises - they were different. This was a man who was going to do it differently, he wasn't just another politician. YOU COULD BELIEVE NICK. He was on your side, those nasty tuition fees. HE WOULD VOTE AGAINST it. Because he wasn't just another politician, he was Nick Clegg. The deception was deeper with Clegg. The lies worse, because he built that entire campaign on being the one you could trust, a different type of politician. Except he wasn't.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    edited April 2014
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    .... I don't think we take into account sufficiently the anger over Clegg's total volte face over tuition fees, immediately after taking office. I suspect a lot of Lab/LD's won't come back until he, and anyone else closely identified with that business have gone..

    I often chide PBers that they forget one of the main tenets of Coalition government - You don't get all you hope for.

    Surely so it is with the LibDems and tuition fees. You might argue the viability of the policy and I do but the LibDems lost the policy because quite correctly the Conservatives vetoed it.

    If only it hadn't come up within, it seemed "hours" of taking office!

    Otherwise I agree, Sir, about Coalitions. That's the whole point; a group of politicians find enough points on which they agree to form a Government.
    That saying, I take the point about VAT. I think that a reversal here should be the next tax cut!
    I think pragmatically it was such a huge financial commitment that tuition fees had to be decided upon immediately.

    As for future tax cuts I'd be bound to say "Carry on Danny" - Continue to Increase the tax threshold to help the working poor and also look at the starting rate for NI.

    Why would the "working poor" not be helped by a cut in VAT? I know food isn't covered, but quite a lot of things the are used regularly …… fuel being one ….. are.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    Pulpstar said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    .... I don't think we take into account sufficiently the anger over Clegg's total volte face over tuition fees, immediately after taking office. I suspect a lot of Lab/LD's won't come back until he, and anyone else closely identified with that business have gone..

    I often chide PBers that they forget one of the main tenets of Coalition government - You don't get all you hope for.

    Surely so it is with the LibDems and tuition fees. You might argue the viability of the policy and I do but the LibDems lost the policy because quite correctly the Conservatives vetoed it.

    To be fair, it was probably more the VAT rise announced in Osborne's first budget that did for the LDs.
    JackW is correct that coalition government by their very nature make all manifesto promises are null and void – but the Lib Dems made a solemn ‘pledge’ - they signed it and everything…!

    I’m sure the sense betrayal was palpable by those ‘students’ that voted LD on the back of such campaigning.
    Is there any significant difference between a "solemn pledge" and a "manifesto pledge". The essential to carrying out either is to win the election.

    To my mind the LibDems were guilty of executing an electorially excellent campaign proposal that they were in no position to implement even in the event of a Coalition.

    In short they successfully deluded themselves and students.

    The difference with the tuition fees was the incredibly pious/sad/solemn/serious face way Nick Clegg went about it. All politicians spew seven thousand litres of bunkum, and we know its all bunkum where they stand next to the poster saying how if the other lot get in, taxes will go up, puppies will burn (In the case of Labour this is often true but hey ho) and people think - its politicians being politicians. Ed Balls is a good example of this, you don't believe a word he says, but hey thats ok; he is Ed Balls and obviously he's just spouting claptrap trying to get into power.

    But Clegg's promises - they were different. This was a man who was going to do it differently, he wasn't just another politician. YOU COULD BELIEVE NICK. He was on your side, those nasty tuition fees. HE WOULD VOTE AGAINST it. Because he wasn't just another politician, he was Nick Clegg. The deception was deeper with Clegg. The lies worse, because he built that entire campaign on being the one you could trust, a different type of politician. Except he wasn't.
    Quite. As a long-term Lib Dem voter, couldn't agree more.


  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    MikeK said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    .... I don't think we take into account sufficiently the anger over Clegg's total volte face over tuition fees, immediately after taking office. I suspect a lot of Lab/LD's won't come back until he, and anyone else closely identified with that business have gone..

    I often chide PBers that they forget one of the main tenets of Coalition government - You don't get all you hope for.

    Surely so it is with the LibDems and tuition fees. You might argue the viability of the policy and I do but the LibDems lost the policy because quite correctly the Conservatives vetoed it.

    To be fair, it was probably more the VAT rise announced in Osborne's first budget that did for the LDs.
    JackW is correct that coalition government by their very nature make all manifesto promises are null and void – but the Lib Dems made a solemn ‘pledge’ - they signed it and everything…!

    I’m sure the sense betrayal was palpable by those ‘students’ that voted LD on the back of such campaigning.
    Is there any significant difference between a "solemn pledge" and a "manifesto pledge". The essential to carrying out either is to win the election.

    To my mind the LibDems were guilty of executing an electorially excellent campaign proposal that they were in no position to implement even in the event of a Coalition.

    In short they successfully deluded themselves and students.
    No, the Lab/Lib/Con are all liars, but that doesn't resonate with JackW and quite a few others.
    Only if UKIP caught in a gaff or lie is it deemed to be serious, heinous, etc,.
    My position in relation to politicians and the public is clear - Lamp post and dog.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    The other thing about Clegg's proposal is that the tuition fee argument by it's very nature appealed to alot of young people.

    Of course wiser, more cynical and less naive heads won't have been taken in as they were. But this was alot of these young pup's first elections. First cut/deepest and all that.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2014
    Great News on the Public Finances

    Key figures are as follows:.

    • For the financial year 2013/14 public sector net borrowing excluding the temporary effects of financial interventions, the transfer of the Royal Mail Pension Plan and the transfers from the Bank of England Asset Purchase Facility Fund was £107.7 billion. This was £7.5 billion lower than the same period in 2012/13, when it was £115.1 billion.

    •During the financial ye ar 2013/14, £31.1 billion has been transferred from the Bank of England Asset Purchase Facility Fund to HM Treasury. Of this amount, £12.2 billion has had an impact on net borrowing.

    • For the financial year 2013/14, public sector net borrowing excluding temporary effects of financial interventions (PSNB ex) was £95.5 billion. This was £14.8 billion higher than the same period in 2012/13, when it was £80.7 billion.

    • In March 2014, public sector net borrowing excluding temporary effects of financial interventions (PSNB ex) was £6.7 billion. This was £4.7 billion lower than in March 2013, when it was £11.4 billion.

    • No cash transfers were made from the Bank of England Asset Purchase Facility Fund to HM Treasury in March 2013 or 2014.

    • The sale of Lloyds Banking Group shares in March 2014 reduced the public sector net cash requirement by £4.2 billion. The ONS will publish details of other effects alongside the announcement of the National Accounts Classification decision.

    • The central government net cash requirement for the financial year 2013/14 was £75.4 billion; £29.6 billion lower than the same period in 2012/13, when it was £105.0 billion.

    • At the end of March 2014, Public sector net debt excluding temporary effects of financial interventions (PSND ex) was £1,268.7 billion, equivalent to 75.8% of gross domestic product (GDP).


    The figure which stands out is central government net cash requirement (CGNCR) for the year being down nearly £30 billion. CGNCR is the metric used by the Treasury and Debt Management Office to calculate actual borrowing through new Gilt and T-Bill issuance and is the core driver of debt servicing costs.
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